“Never play with flat fingers.” Leon Fleisher: “Hold my beer…” 😎 | Leon Fleisher

The great Leon Fleisher (1928-2020) shares his insights into the shape of the finger for piano playing.
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[@MarxistischerMillionaer]

„Never play with flat fingers“ … _Thelonious Monk has left the chat_

[@kx3kx3]

Followed by Horowitz...

[@j2bigd590]

And art Tatum

[@CourtWatchAu]

@@j2bigd590 a lot of Black players play with the pad (flat fingers, I have analysed this and think its because Black ppl have longer last segment of the finger, so its more natural to play with the flat of the finger)

[@Nocxys]

I mean, it is Jazz what did you expect

[@CourtWatchAu]

yeah this formal aproach is less relevant to playing jazz

[@stupid4u]

Fleischer: “YESSS YESSSSS!”

[@maximusfrank2835]

Yaasssss

[@kylecao2553]

I hope this is a reference to the Sickos comics from The Onion

[@k22kk22k]

Flat fingers, like any other styles of fingering, is just another tool for players. It is up to players to choose what is appropriate for individual performances, depending on tunes, intentions, audience, atmosphere and so on. Just keeping trying to understand what we are doing and leveraging them, is one of the ways of artists.

[@user-ic3kt1eq1p]

hard percussive playing has a place. But to many people do it unintendedly and it damages their playing. He's trying to show theres a difference.

[@k22kk22k]

@@user-ic3kt1eq1p I agree with you. I believe it is a rather advanced technique for intentional use.

[@user-ic3kt1eq1p]

@@k22kk22k Yeah I think in combination with understanding how to down beat and up beat properly switching between percussive and length playing can be really something. Beethoven is one of those composers if you don't get these concepts you're never going to produce Beethoven's proper ommf and subtle melodies. One of those composer where that diversity is needed otherwise the peace is stuck in a singular gear all the way through. Usually dictated by the persons natural affinity to downbeat and flat push or up beat and pad slide.

[@f1f1s]

As a grand-piano technician, I assure you that *nothing* in the grand piano action goes length-wise. The hammer strikes vertically, the damper goes up strictly vertically, the checks capture the hammer butt vertically, the spring releases its tension vertically. Nothing is horizontal. However, thinking about translating vertical movement into horizontal gives more flexibility because it its easier to produce more nuanced sound with a horizontal finger-movement change just because its vertical projection becomes shorter and weaker.

[@evanwyatt2862]

Truly one of the best RIP ❤

[@jeffreyhoward879]

Tips or pads - depends what you’re playing at the time. I spend my life sight reading so any part of my body that can get the note down is a winner!

[@tekraynak]

His last comment is so true - you press INTO the piano, not down.

[@ginaqc78]

For me it depends what you are playing in the very moment, each note has his own meaning and must be played like that……❤❤❤❤❤

[@shanedefeo6881]

As a guitarist Incan see so many similarities.Of course they only become significant in tenths of seconds or less but it prooves we share the same hacks😊

[@VintageBalderdash]

I was thinking drumming with speed double kick techniques. RRLLRRLLR

[@Currabell]

Beautifully expressed and explained

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

yet wrong

[@bopegasus]

My compliment goes out to the good tuning of the grand piano

[@jessevallejo8797]

Yes! Yes! Skeets all over Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata score & keyboard. Viagara is a helluva drug.

[@KosmasLapatas]

Depends what you are playing. Horowitz and Gould made miracles with flat fingers

[@barnacleboy4423]

Keep gould out of the same sentence as horowitz

[@dreuvasdevil9395]

Horowitz had to play with flat fingers in his later stages due to arthritis, also, dont compare gould to Horowitz

[@rhyssaunders1323]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@dreuvasdevil9395I will compare Horowitz to Gould if I want

[@rhyssaunders1323]

@@barnacleboy4423Gould and Horowitz

[@vittoriosommese]

​@@barnacleboy4423Gould and Horowitz

[@helenavondrakenstein4969]

Love these wonderful masters

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

...saying silly stuff? sure

[@iampracticingpiano]

Leon is right--when you play with the tip, you get more of the bone. That's what she said.

[@michajanik3821]

Get back to practicing young man although your notion is exquisite indeed; you may want to drop the piano and become a scholar!

[@surferriness]

Hahahah dammit

[@neo9560]

Why would you want to get more bone ?

[@surferriness]

@@neo9560 deeper experience

[@gixelz]

@@neo9560 a more fulfilling life

[@1712Alfred]

True pianistic wisdom! 🙏👏🎹

[@adamblock5141]

Fleisher had a musical mind and soul like Barry Harris. Those who know, know EXACTLY what I mean. What beauty 🌞

[@brianfarrell7829]

It depends on the sound you want, the context, the color, the repertoire. There is no one right way. It depends.

[@sangmikang]

Wow. And wow.

[@santiagosilva6391]

Excellent explication!

[@ankurage]

Beginners play with flat fingers because they don't have the techniques. Masters play with flat fingers because it's just one of their many techniques at their disposal.

[@josephinebrown6631]

Thank you kindly🤍

[@eduardosacasa5007]

To put it in more scientific terms: pushing down with the pad means extending the finger and thus having less tension in it; as such, the weight of the keys counters the speed at which you down. If it weren't for the weight of keys, the only factor in dynamics would be finger speed. Since there's weight to counter your force, you need to change the tensions of different fingers in order to transfer sound differently across fingers. It's the key to playing passages where some fingers have to play louder than the rest, at the same time (or you could just start playing one finger before and have the other one start later so that they hit at the same time but at different speeds; harder to pull off though; maybe a mix of the two is best sometimes).

[@Medtszkowski]

Josef Lhevinne explains this perfectly

[@danielgloverpiano7693]

And this is the reason I’m a pianist and not an organist. We can directly control the sound with our own fingers. The organ has no such color possibilities, except what is done with the registration. It never appealed to me. The piano is a far more physically satisfying and personal instrument. Two pianists will elicit entirely different sounds from the same piano. I’ve experienced this many times listening to gala performances with a bunch of pianists playing.

[@PianistTanooki]

I don’t think he’s necessarily talking about “flat fingers” in the same way most piano teachers tell their kids to avoid doing. He’s talking about playing with the cushion, or pad, of the finger instead of the tip… for specific situations. Generally, even though this does “flatten” the fingers a bit, they’re still somewhat curved… just not as curved as they are when playing on the tips. In fact, I didn’t even hear Fleisher refer to them as “flat” throughout this video at all. Everybody talks about Horowitz’s fingers being “flat,” but even those are still somewhat curved. They’re just not as curved as what you’d normally see. It’s worth noting that everyone’s hand is built differently, and Horowitz had *very* long fingers. I’m sure his “flatter” fingers worked great for his particular hands.. but one cannot simply say “well, Horowitz did it, therefore my flat fingers are okay!” The main reason teachers avoid telling kids to “avoid” flat fingers is because kids will generally play with a completely flat palm on the keys, where there’s no “arch,” with the knuckles being completely invisible. This makes anything like scales impossible, as there’s no room to turn the thumb under.

[@slavamixer1]

He says exactly the opposite of what the title states. Lol.

[@atallguynh]

Yes, that's the point. The title is referencing the common opinion that 99% of piano teachers say to their students, with the video being the rebuttal.

[@user-zr9hu3tf1y]

am i the one missing something or are you and the people who liked your comment the ones missing the "hold my beer" meme

[@turipeter199]

I suddenly thought that it was a bottle of vodka 😅

[@elisa.alexander]

I definitely need to use fingertips more, I 100% utilize the flat fingers for expression but I do think it can make quick passages more difficult

[@nosojdjos]

Horowitz: Hold my beer

[@inlonging]

And if you had him turn his back he could still hear the difference.. when they’re good, they know.

[@hunterzx77]

Tbf, this makes a lot of sense in my way of playing piano, gotta try this

[@kyosukeplays]

I agree with the slide. But I would argue the piece you’re playing and how you want it to sound you can feather keys or sharply slam them.

[@MusicallyStupidGuy]

Franz Liszt himself said that just curved fingers produced quite the dull sound

[@fireb0xes938]

Bruh when he played that A-flat I immediately thought of the Weezer lick

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

You can press the key slowly with the tip of the finger as well. But it's much more difficult to control the speed.

[@benjaminfavorite3274]

What does he mean by the keys slide instead of just going down? I'm pretty sure the mechanics are that the key moves in an arc because it is on a pivot point

[@matsu820]

I wouldn't know but I thought he meant the way in which the fingers slide on the keys while pressing down.

[@izzyjamm4]

i think he means a piano key isnt really a button, but actually a long lever (connected to other mechanisms hidden in the body)

[@gerardgag]

I think he refers to the fact that the key does not go down like a button but that it takes applying different levels of force to press it and produce sound depending on which spot of the key you are pressing

[@shubus]

I'll stay it: what everyone has on their lips:" Never play with flat fingers unless you're Horowitz"

[@stormlong2629]

Love your theory

[@timothy4664]

Vladimir Horowitz says hold my beer

[@Jessica-si5wo]

Haha indeed

[@terpentoon]

You should talk to a classical guitarist about playing with the top of your fingers.

[@pauliberg3492]

❤

[@nikstar1313]

I slide in Claire due lune so much when I watch the video I recorded of myself 6 years ago

[@kishgia85]

Wait... so is he encouraging or against flat fingers.. it seems he said flat long fingers are more expressive

[@alexkozliayev9902]

It's seems that they create different result, and should be used in different circumstances for different purpose

[@TommasoPaba]

He says that curved fingers give you more speed and flat fingers allow for more expression, then it's up to you to use the correct technique according to what you're playing in every given moment. He never said what's written in the title of the video, also because any experienced player knows that there are no absolutes in music and technique.

[@bigaaron]

Masterclasses ❤

[@jefolson6989]

He didnt say " never play with flat fingers". Ask Horowitz. Flat fingers, plenty of speed anf expression.

[@markbyrd7710]

I think that's the point of the video. He's saying there's a time and place for flat fingers and for raised. It's expressive.

[@CoeMusicStudio]

Sounds like blooming flowers! 🤔

[@KevinB-pd3me]

Great advice for pianists and proctologists.

[@hawkeyeinthehouse2995]

INTERESTING, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT.😲😁👍

[@StevenHaggis]

Barking mad!!!!!!

[@bsmusicd]

This is basic physics. Greatest speed is achieved when the force is applied at a 90° angle to a lever.

[@3dbadboy1]

Horowitz played with pretty flat fingers, so ...

[@vladimirsamas2474]

👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌

[@unboxing4319]

Flat fingers but still no collapsed joints is key. Someone who hasn’t developed control from the tip down won’t be able to avoid flat fingers

[@Remeberboy]

Я по превью подумал, что это состаренный Пушной, вот и нажал:)

[@massivechafe]

Anyone else immediately hear the first note of Welcome to the Black Parade? 😂

[@Hervinbalfour]

Debussy's music says otherwise. Read the descriptions of Debussy playing his own works and he played a large portion of his music with flat fingers palm almost flat to the keys to achieve the colors and sounds he achieved. But other than that Professor Leon is spot on. 😉😉😉

[@justforlawlzz]

leon is telling his student to play with flat fingers though. so he would likely agree with debussy's playing.

[@joyboricua3721]

His wife will like this

[@John-cw4no]

I enjoy playing guitar and believe in good technique but after people like Michael Hedges I realized touch the string(and guitar) in every way you can think of

[@eddyy2781]

Press hard = loud, press soft = quiet

[@azdruval8536]

😂😂😂

[@bsmusicd]

That's not how the piano works. It matters not how hard you press. What matters is the speed of key descent.

[@MrEssexRay]

​@@bsmusicdwhats the difference with playing fast with pointed/flat fingers?

[@bsmusicd]

@@MrEssexRay Physics. 🧪 F=ma (Force = Mass + acceleration). Greatest power is achieved when force is applied at a 90° angle to a lever. Less power is produced as the angle decreases. Fingers deliver more force when curved than when they are flat.

[@MrEssexRay]

@@bsmusicd absolute bollocks. this would matter if your fingers/arms could only generate 1 single type of acceleration from the knuckles/elbow/shoulder. When it comes to the depression of the key, only speed matters objectively (also contact with the keys, but thats another topic), which can be produced by both curved and flat fingers.

[@teshua]

I was told very adamantly to play with my fingertips, as a child. Turns out this method creates more.problems like carpal tunnel. Keith emerson develped CT to the point he was driven to take his own life. Rick Wakeman otoh, plays with his fingerpads and is thankfully still playing

[@donaldmcdonough6729]

His whole contention seems that flat fingers, playing with the pad of the finger, is more expressive. This is the opposite of this video's title.

[@NCYT1121]

0:00

[@a.nobodys.nobody]

What do you mean they slide? He even says 'push the key *down * in the beginning of the clip

[@Bdang87]

I like the part where he says to never play with flat fingers

[@thlee3]

goulde left the chat

[@TarzanHedgepeth]

Y’all are not reading the “Fleischer: hold my beer” part of the title… if you did, you’d be less confused about the first part of the title…

[@mrlofi333]

Very interesting

[@ljyhljyh8178]

Play with your nose if that’s the best sound possible.

[@user-anot53ou1]

Ugh - I have to play with flat fingers a lot because my hand span is short and yet piano makers don’t make narrow pianos.

[@benhodde5688]

Pretty sure that first note was the “black parade” note.

[@jonkratzer9086]

Close, it’s off by a half step. ;) the first note of BP is G.

[@darknightfawkes1028]

Vladmir Horowitz tho 🥰🥰 (his flat fingers)

[@0u0ak]

Ask any trumpet player. 'don't flat' because the action is different.

[@Road_Rash]

That's just his opinion...it makes little, if any difference...

[@robbiepadilla]

But he never said "never play with flat fingers"...

[@bgaona]

Flat, curved... doesn't matter. I'm still gonna be sweating with a metronome no what my fingers are plotting.

[@Tennisisreallyfun]

So I’m just curious, where is it that he expressly discourages playing with a flat finger?

[@RMutt-fj1sz]

The title "quotes" an imaginary naysayer. Then it "quotes" Fleisher saying contradictorily, "hold my beer". The entire title is just a rhetorical device. Because he was already drunk and didn't want to spill his beer on the keyboard.

[@d.d.jacksonpoetryproject]

Uh - Horowitz (?) (and I move on to something else)…

[@mayiask654]

The title is absolutely misleading...

[@Ulkuayan-dl9oh]

❤❤❤❤❤❤🎉😢😢

[@guillermoamesquita1523]

Soy pianista, son exageraciones, no interesa con que toques la tecla, puedes hacerlo con un lapicero si deseas, lo importante es el ataque del brazo más no del dedo, son mitos de la vieja escuela

[@chester6343]

Except one of the greatest pianists technically says to play with the pads..

[@dougr.2398]

Self-contradictory…. He says “down” at the outset, not “lengthwise”

[@shmendez_]

Rip

[@whoisthispianist01]

I contend that the key goes down.

[@izaacmasters2668]

Yea I think piano technique requires at least an awareness of biomechanics and how levers work in physics.. read Cameron Roberts’ work

[@KyleHohn]

I truly do not understand sliding on keys *after* the key has struck. It has no effect on the sound.

[@nicktomato7]

the followthrough you aim for changes the initial approach a baseball player would never aim to swing just to the ball and then stop. you have to follow through - and beyond that, what type of followthrough you go for certainly changes the way the bat hits the ball, which definitely changes where the ball ends up

[@karllieck9064]

Horowitz always played with flat fingers. Go figure.

[@marksmith3947]

Don't listen to someone who ruined his hands with banging

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

Piano keys do not "slide lengthwise", that is pure nonsense. Piano keys are levers that are so long relative to the amount of vertical travel that the motion might as well be vertical.

[@DavidBoycePiano]

What does he mean in saying the the keys "go lengthwise, they slide"?

[@surgrus4367]

Means nothing

[@gerardgag]

I think he refers to the fact that the key does not go down like a button but that it takes applying different levels of force to press it and produce sound depending on which spot of the key you are pressing

[@DavidBoycePiano]

@@gerardgag That makes sense. Though he didn't express it very well. There is a nice discussion of flat versus curved fingers by US piano dealer and pianist Robert Estrin in one of his KZbin videos.

[@buffuzo4201]

My cat plays fine, full paw. Leon get a grip.

[@bonerici]

only works on a real piano, so I don't think i'll ever try it

[@bopegasus]

So I think you play on not correctly weighted plastic keys? You are missing something. Maybe the most important thing.

[@bonerici]

@@bopegasus i know. still i can't handle the size and expensive of a real piano. I might get a fender rhodes someday tho they take up less space and I like the sound

[@paulburns1896]

It's all a question of context. This incorrect understanding of piano technique shows why Leon Fleischer suffered such debilitating physical injuries he couldn't perform for many years.

[@operaguy1]

Horowitz.

[@composingatnight]

I am so glad trumpet players are not this weird. It’s like piano teachers are just trying to make stuff up at this point to have something to say during lessons.

[@arjenbij]

They mostly say it to people who tense up their hands, which results in flat fingers. That doesn't mean that playing with flat fingers makes tense hands, it's the other way around.

[@Linas2933]

Articulation and tone is complex when it comes to piano, as there are many ways to achieve different sounds. As the musician becomes better at classical music, details are as important as the main, big ideas. There are many ways of achieving different tone - the way you use your fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulders, your whole body essentially becomes a variable which impacts the sound.

[@RMutt-fj1sz]

It wasn't until my Jr. year in college my prof taught me to touch the key with flat fingers and make a movement to finish in the curved finger position. Loudness is a function of velocity. My professor studied with Fleisher at Peabody. I am certain that's where he got it from, because he specifically mentioned Fleisher in that lesson as a sort of bona fide to light a fire under my ass. I distinctly remember that caused a sea-change in my technique which cascaded. Beforehand, everything was about "expression". Afterward, I was all about technique, philosophically. Every sound has its motion and expression comes from technique in physical space. I always teach my students how to touch the keyboard like Leon Fleisher, thanks to my prof. Figuring out this technical-mindedness, as a person who never had a good technique, allowed me to translate to other instruments certain physical principles which promote supple strength without unnecessary tension. Fleisher is shouting "yes yes yes" because I can only imagine how many musicians he had to correct over the course of his career as a teacher, and it seems the interviewer/student in this lesson got it rather quickly. Caveat: I'm not a great player or technician by any means, really I'm rather mediocre. There's something as fundamental as this, and it took me until my early 20s to learn, so it became my mission as a teacher to give a taste of the passion of proper technique as early as possible. Indeed, with some promising pupils we address exactly what Fleisher is talking about in the very first piano lesson of their lives. That was they don't have to waste time like I was doing it wrong for a decade. It's frustrating to see you pooh-pooh it in your comment. Embouchure is extremely foreign to keyboard players and I imagine that's where most of the trumpet-playing takes place. But keyboard technique does have a lot in common with stringed and percussion instruments. It is only a coincidence the piano is both a string and percussion instrument. Still the human body should obey certain principles no matter what the instrument is. And for piano keyboard, being a slave to amplitude decay means we have to get "closer to the breath" so-to-speak in any way we can. Sustain pedal was a cheat code for this, but it should start in the finger technique Fleisher advocates, and as some other commenter said, 'the lever of key (not the button of the key) should be an extension of the finger'. Okay bro your 30 minutes is up. Did I make enough stuff up to fill the lesson?

[@smitlag]

So much of it comes down to the shape of the hand and length of the fingers. The science and subtleties of weight. To play completely without tension in the hand is my goal. I actually got a chance to play for Maestro Fleisher when I was young. He did a seminar at Towsen Md. I attended this through my high school. I really didn't know much about him at the time other than he conducted the Baltimore symphony orchestra. It was only later that I learned that he had been a great pianist who had suffered a type of hand trauma that had virtually ended his career as a pianist. My piano teacher at Peabody Prep was livid due to "omg, I didn't get a chance to prep you for the great Fleisher. Or make him aware of my great tutoring skills. " I did just fine. I played Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu for him. He gave me great advice. But it did illustrate the amount of "ass kissing" that surrounds the world of classical music. The sad thing is that the men who composed these wonderful pieces did not all live great and noble lives. Some, they died in absolute poverty despite composing masterpieces for the nobles they served. But we as lovers of this great music need to preserve this music and encourage people to listen and study it and give those who perform this as the dedicated professionals they are their due.

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

this is such BS and commenters are just blind to it. why? because old wise-looking man saying that.

[@bsmusicd]

Not nonsense. Physics. Greatest speed is achieved when the force is applied at a 90° angle to a lever.

[@geekmega7527]

O

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

Uh, that’s mostly nonsense. It is always remarkable to me how kooky many great pianists are about their craft

[@bsmusicd]

Basic physics. Greatest speed is achieved when force is applied at a 90° angle to a lever.

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

@@bsmusicd The lever being what?

[@bsmusicd]

@@JohnSmith-oe5kx the key of course.

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

@@bsmusicd The key travels in a fixed path so the force is always in the same direction. Whether you add a lateral component to the movement is immaterial to the action of the key, it only affects the player

[@bsmusicd]

This is basic Newtonian physics. f=ma. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Movement results from unbalanced forces, where force applied in one direction is greater than its resistance from the opposite direction. The amount of force and the speed at which it is a applied affects how far and how fast the key is depressed, which in turn produces louder and quieter sounds. The direction in which force is applied matters. As previously stated, greatest power is achieved when force is applied at a 90° angle to the lever. Less power is produced as the angle decreases until it reaches zero at 0° force application angle. Fingers deliver more force when they are curved (working at an angle approaching 90° in relation to the key) then when they are flat.

[@daniloapostolov-dacatv1536]

Hold my water*

[@TheGandiaChannel]

I don't buy this. I have even seen pianists slightly shaking their fingers while holding a note down, as if they were playing vibrato on a string instrument. The part of your fingers striking a note makes a difference when playing string instruments because the finger is in direct contact with the string. Not so on the piano.

[@donkgated8074]

You clearly don't play the piano.

[@composerjalen]

​​@@allenapplewhitea lot of words, but you forget a very simple fact, which is that the shape of your finger affects the amount of pressure (and yes, dynamic level does impact tone, it isn't just volume as you claimed) you'll naturally apply to the key when you press down. If you argue against that idea, then you're more concerned with winning an online debate than accuracy

[@dkant4511]

​@@allenapplewhiteno one has time to read your word salad but a curved finger is more mechanically efficient therefore a louder(and even if not loud) and more direct sound. The flatter finger can produce more nuance bc it operates from a mechanical disadvantage(more graduated acceleration). End of debate!

[@JohnD-qd1go]

If a person wants to play vibrato on an acoustic keyboard instrument, play the clavichord.

[@martinhnilo7961]

you're just a bad pianist, it's that simple