✨ NEVER Use The Self-Clean Option of Your Oven - Here’s Why… ✨

NEVER Use The Self-Clean Option of Your Oven - Here’s Why… ✨
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[@shawnsmith5028]

Excellent video.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Thanks so much Shawn😊😊😊

[@smohlson]

I’ve been lucky using the self-cleaning feature until last New Year’s Eve when it broke like Scott describes. My repairman then explained what Scott just did. NowI clean by putting water vinegar and lemons in a baking dish in the oven at 300 for a couple of hours.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Great tip!😊👍

[@moiramorel3196]

Is there a video tutorial about this cleaning method of cooking lemons, vinegar and water?

[@HA-uf9ir]

I was so excited to use my self cleaning feature today. But decided to look online and found you. Yep. I will be cleaning it out with my own 2 hands😅. Thanks. 😊

[@ckj324]

I just replaced the lower heating element on a Whirlpool. It had stopped heating up. And yes, he is correct. The heater element was corroded and pitted. The job was not difficult. Good ol KZbin saved me some money.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

That is great news👍

[@michelpaulcote156]

Thanks. Very good advice. The only downside after watching, I am now in charge of the manual scrubbing...

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Yep, I feel your pain😂😂😂

[@dorothypigney7819]

Yes and how to do it without dangerous chemicals😮!

[@davemoss9505]

Started the self-clean feature.( mainly because my wife obsessing over every little spot inside there. But it's actually clean.) After about 15 minutes I got a weird feeling about it and I turned it off. Then I went to this video. Thanks for the confirmation. That was a very well-presented video.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Awesome Dave, I’m so glad it worked and saved you time and money😊 I hope you’ll click here to support us by joining our Channel: kzbin.info/door/7fBqy8806u1r0NpPv_fQ2wjoin You’ll get Live Appliance help when ever you need it.

[@bitsow]

Nice video. I used your channel to fix my dishwasher a few years back. This one seems to have a broader appeal, I hope more people learn to use your great content.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Thank you sooo much❤️😊

[@MoPoppins]

Thank you for being such a LOVELY human! 🙏✨💕 Always appreciate the thorough explanation & education. Blessings always. 🎁

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Thank you soooo much. You are so nice😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@im1who84u]

Thanks for those tips. I have an electric Whirlpool that is about twenty-five years old and I've used the self cleaning oven feature 25 times over those years. Today, February of 2024 I went to use the self cleaning feature for the 26th time and it will not engage. The first thing I noticed that was odd is that the door didn't lock when I pressed the start button, but I only clean it once a year and I thought well maybe I didn't remember the sequence correctly and it will lock when the oven heats up.... Not happening. The oven didn't heat up, the door didn't lock, and I got an (-F-) displayed on the control panel along with a beeper sounding every minute. I looked through the owners manual without much luck. I got the idea to flip the circuit breaker for about five minutes and then turn it back on to see if that would reset everything... Nope. So here I am looking at KZbin videos and ran across yours. Thank you for making this video. If I didn't already damage the stove/oven with the previous 25 cleaning cycles to the point where the other normal cooking features don't at least function as intended, I can go through life having to manually clean my oven once a year. Not a problem worth paying to get fixed for as much as I would use it. I think the only problem is that the locking mechanism failed, and if that's all it is, I am fine. You're right about having that extra insulation, I like it.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You’re right, It’s just a bad door lock. If the door is unable to lock, the self cleaning cycle will not progress.

[@Goat67]

Thank you! I truly appreciate all your expert advice. Your advice could save lives. So, thank you.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You are so welcome!😊

[@bradkaral1188]

This includes a ton of helpful, well-presented information. Thanks!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Glad it was helpful!😊😊😊

[@FEELSORRY4URASS]

Self cleaned mine for over 10 years and never had any issues maybe I got lucky Lol and today replaced my oven for new one fingers crossed 🤞🏻 (only replaced for new look stainless steel air fry oven )

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You’re a brave soul 😊

[@FEELSORRY4URASS]

@@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel hi my new oven has self clean and steam clean function is the steam clean safer?

[@FastFreeFixes]

I would use the steam clean👍

[@TheBvirgilio86]

@@FEELSORRY4URASS Steam Clean cycles are much safer. Depending on the brand, the Steam Cycle heats to 350-450 degrees for 20-40 minutes. That process heats the water to create the steam that softens the baked on mess inside and makes it a lot easier to use a sponge and wipe it away without having to use any oven cleaner sprays. With the Steam Clean you can leave the baking racks inside the oven without the damage that would occur when using the regular high heat self clean method. Since the Steam Clean uses a lower heat and a much shorter cycle, you won't have all that excess heat raising the temperature in the house in the summer time and won't have to keep a bunch of windows open to ventilate all the smoke that usually comes through the vent while using the regular Self Clean cycle.

[@aleb5195]

What brand was the old oven?

[@debcrawford5665]

I too turned it off because the smell was so strong. Shortly after that I found this informative video. Thank you for all the info, I will never use this feature again . On a side note, my previous oven had a malfunction during a preheat, where the oven was getting so hot and it would not turn off. I had to shut off the breaker. I am wondering if my use of the self clean had caused the malfunction over time. I bet it did.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Glad it was helpful! I think you’re right. I think the relay was stuck in the on position.

[@marilynsmart4095]

Thanks! Very informative! What oven cleaner can I use for my electric oven?

[@keepitreal369]

I remember watching something on KZbin last year wear a lady turnt on there self cleaning oven before she left for work but her daughter which was pregnant at the time was there but upstairs sleeping and there self-cleaning oven caught on fire the daughter woke up and couldn't even get out her bed room door or the window because her stomach was too big she was like 8 months pregnant it was so sad to listen to that 911 call it seem like it took for ever for the fire department to get there....Thank God they was able to save her and her baby ..so he is right them self-cleaning ovens can be dangerous..

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

I’m glad she survived ❤️😊🙏

[@lilyofthevalley7413]

Thank you so much for this video!!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You are so welcome!

[@AS-np2ee]

I tried to use pyrolize cleaning of my SMEG oven few times. Terrible stink and smoke from burning fats, and after some 40 minutes into the cycle the inner glass of the door blew into million shards

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Aaah, I’m so sorry to hear that. Self clean is a bad feature.

[@kallenyc]

😲

[@Montfortracing]

So why do many ovens have the self cleaning feature if it's that risky? You're pretty much saying those features shouldn't exist, and that the manufacturers want us to damage parts of the oven when using the self cleaning feature...

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Yes, very often it’s damaging. Especially as the oven gets older.

[@Montfortracing]

@@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel what are the alternatives? Just manually clean the oven?

[@christinelwhite3424]

Well mine is fairly new 2 yrs old geeez it's still going I just had a little stuff I had tried to clean did not come up took racks out Lord ....I hope oven lives it's popping crackling which said that's normal .....omg ....Lord may never use self clean again..I started at 9:30...it's 1:30 now darn....

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Thanks Christine, I hope it comes out ok👍

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Yep, It’s a pain in the neck, but better than the huge repair bill that can come with Self-cleaning 👍

[@AustinTraylor-ue8cc]

Very informative and helpful. Thanks, Scott.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@SpongeAddict-gw6mo]

Never was a problem until I got a new one last year! It didn’t turn off I had to switch off the breakers. Either way don’t do more then 3 hours!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

It’s pretty dangerous.

[@kernel_data_inpage_error]

I always used it as it always is convenient when it comes to cleaning every trace of grease (I run it once of twice a year, preferable on mid-winter), but this time it didn't need to, but the tray was filthy as we prepared fish on it and I felt kinda lazy that time so I picked the shortest cycle, pop the tray inside and run it (10 minutes in right when I was gonna check how it was going) a giant fireball flashes inside it, kitchen soaks in smoke (it gets foggy whenever this cycle is ran, but that was RIDICULOUS) and I just turn on the extractor on full blast and leave, nothing happened but scared the living hell out of me, probably the oil evaporated and ignited, is a good known-good german brand with almost non-existent heat leaking to the outside, yet it gets hot during self clean and its surrrounded by 40+ year old wooden furniture, it locks down the oven for 3 hours after the cycle is complete. I'm not planning to stop using it if required, but I will consider scrubbing more often from now on

[@carttart]

I used the self clean on my new LG gas oven [built-in]. NEVER AGAIN. It stunk up the house so bad. The fumes were very concerning. It got so HOT I was worried it might set the wooden cabinets on fire. Don't use oven cleaners on LG. Try this: Dawn Powerwash, sprayed on the worst spots [cold oven] Let sit for abt half hour. Then scrub and rinse,rinse,rinse. DO NOT leave any soap residue behind. Could also wipe down with vinegar.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Great advice 😊😊😊

[@mandypdx]

BISSELL steam shot works great for ovens

[@trevorgwelch7412]

We use EASY OFF 😊

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Good idea👍😊

[@honestlycameron2807]

I don't think you can use easy off on some of the ceramic ovens. I could be wrong.

[@autisticgirlawareness7420]

So the self clean feature is like a self destruct feature in a way that’s probably the best way to explain it to children who are learning to cook with their parents.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Yep😂😂😂😂

[@kallenyc]

Umm, that makes it sound like a bomb in your kitchen which is very scary. I wouldn't impart that message to young kids personally.

[@edmundclark2088]

Thanks! So why offer a self cleaning option at all!?? I have a Frigidaire Gallery that is one year old, I tried to shut the self cleaning option off after only 45 mins because it was SO HOT. It would not shut off, i had to un plug the stove, plugged it back in and went into self cleaning mode, it still would not cancel. The THIRD try it finally shut off. VERY SCARY, NEVER AGAIN. This seems like a very dangerous option that should not be an option at all in my opinion. Thanks for the great video!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You speak the TRUTH Edmund👍

[@calichris76]

In my opinion "self cleaning oven fearure" is for lazy people who don't want to put in work. The self cleaning oven almost burned my apartment down.. Do yourself a favor and listen to this man Scott.. he is telling you the truth.💯

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Thanks so much Chris 😊😊😊

[@marybaudoin3711]

I don’t think it’s laziness, it’s less time consuming. Single mothers don’t really have the time. I bought a house that just so happened to have the self clean feature. I didn’t know I could by pass. Good to know.

[@Unfunctional]

what oven did you use? Did it has a warning in the manual that oven can catch on fire?

[@millie9236]

That may be a person's reason for a self cleaning oven. I used it, once. I worked at an assistant living facility 53 hours per week to pay in part for my dad's apartment. Then I went to my "day job" for another 20 hours per week. I'm the LEAST lazy person you'll ever meet. Now I take care of my mom at home, then go to work. Because of the expense, I ride a bike to work. I'm 60. I don't use the self clean due to the odor. Prior to using it the one time, I cleaned it as per instructions.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

I think that’s smart Kim😊

[@LizSchubert]

I wish I had watched this before using the self clean this past weekend. Right at the end of the three hours something went wrong and F30 ERR code appeared. The oven cooled all the way down but it’s stuck in door lock mode and won’t clear. We tried replacing the temp probe to see if that my be the problem. It’s a Kenmore 7904660 electric slide in. Any ideas on other inexpensive parts we might try to replace ourselves? It’s 18 years old, better to just replace?

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Hi Liz, Can you turn off both breakers for your oven overnight to see if the door will open when you turn the breakers back on?

[@bd2945]

He’s right just call out Ovenu

[@Nikisright]

Just installed my new electrolux steambake range (I'm in Europe) and used the self cleaning after making some pork. Now it doesn't work. 5 days old. ☹️

[@brendarose3941]

I appreciate the information. But “how” do I clean it without using the self clean feature? What cleaners can I use? I have an electric oven with a convection oven feature and with the self clean feature. I don’t want to scratch the protective coating. Thanks.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Great Question👍 Click Here to Get Live Expert Help From Me For Just $5.00: kzbin.info/door/7fBqy8806u1r0NpPv_fQ2wjoin We’ll Get It Fixed 👍

[@kallenyc]

@@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel You charge $5 for the answer?!

[@robert3640]

Would a steam cleaning oven be a better option?

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

I think so!

[@colinmoore68]

My Kitchenaid built in oven stopped after self clean and I believe the high temp thermostat has blown, as there is no power to oven or display. I checked and tested breaker which is good. It is locked and I am wondering how to get it open to gain access to thermostat and screws securing to cabinet etc. Any tricks of the trade? Perhaps a new repair video!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Great Question Colin👍 Click Here to Get Live Expert Help From Me For Just $5.00: kzbin.info/door/7fBqy8806u1r0NpPv_fQ2wjoin. Should be easy to get it reset😊

[@ZigSputnik]

Switching it off at the mains will stop it and should reset the function.

[@ZigSputnik]

Are you talking about the pyrolytic self clean, which needs a high temp burn off? The catalytic panels don't seem to need this and will clean as you go.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Right, This is for older ovens.

[@ZigSputnik]

@@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel Pyrolytic ovens are still an option though and usually cost more than the catalytic. Are you saying that you shouldn't buy pyrolytic ovens because using that feature may damage the oven?

[@johnsolimine1164]

Good Advice.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Glad you think so!

[@Sean-im8bf]

this is worse than the popcorn button on the microwave. also, time to check that your breaker is clearly labelled for OVEN. No unplugging necessary if you need to shutoff, breaker would be safer...

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Good info. Sean😊

[@rhrocha2009]

So I purchased my range sometime in July of last year, so I’m wondering if I could still purchase this feature of $500 for self cleaning? Why don’t they tell you that when you buy it? I bought mine at Nebraska furniture Mart in Dallas. They never spoke about this self cleaning feature. When I call the 800 phone number for Fridgidaire, you get a recording that says due to the high call volume we are not able to take your call. So what gives? Who would I talk to?

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Good question, I’m not sure if they would exchange it for a model with self clean model. In my opinion your far better off not having self-clean because of how destructive it is to your oven. I hope you can also subscribe to our channel with this link: ▶️-Subscribe Here: kzbin.info/door/7fBqy8806u1r0NpPv_fQ2w😊😊😊

[@ari4101]

How do you turn off an oven that is self cleaning? I pushed the clear/Off button and even unplugged it and it's still on, why? The self-cleaning was accidentally pushed by my father who can't see well, so now I need help trying to turn the self-cleaning off.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Great Question Ari👍 Click Here to Get Live Expert Help From Me For Just $5.00: kzbin.info/door/7fBqy8806u1r0NpPv_fQ2wjoin

[@lindawilson4625]

Well, you sucked all the joy out of my life LOL! I was really happy that I have an oven that will clean itself although I haven't used that feature yet. It looks like I won't be. You made some very good points here. The possible risk and related expenses just aren't worth it. I do appreciate how well it is insulated. At least I have that! THANKS!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Sorry about that Linda😂 Hopefully it will save you from catastrophe

[@samsen3965]

Good point.🙏

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Thanks so much Sam😊👍

[@aleb5195]

I just let go of my avocado green stove from the late sixties. It still worked. I sold my house and had to leave all the appliances. I have a new Samsung in my new house. I already don't like it. They are definitely not designed to look nice for very long and I'm sure it won't last as long.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You speak the truth 😊

[@fun_ghoul]

I was actually looking for a video on using a self-clean with the lock disabled to make a proper pizza, but...still good advice for normies. Don't worry, I'm _very_ conscious of fire safety, ever since my neighbour almost burned the building down with his dead level air conditioner...guess who put out the fire and bashed in the door? Lol

[@guillaumepayant-tougas9977]

Yeah looks like the old video alexthecookingguy made about this subject isnt there anymore. But i,ve done it by simply grinding the hook that it locks on. So how are your pizzas?!

[@kallenyc]

Wow. That's ambitious and probably risky to use an appliance in a way that it wasn't meant to be at high heat.

[@fun_ghoul]

@@kallenyc Ovens with self-clean mode are indeed intended to be used at the heat that the cycle produces, if marginally so (yay, capitalism). Per this video, as I remember it, the problem is basically that the electronics are inadequately vented/cooled, which can be mitigated by removing the stove top (for example). Moreover, I wouldn't be doing this a) with my kitchen stove which I expect to keep working, or b) indoors at all. Also, weird that you replied in this manner when Guillaume alluded to both how it's done and why. Thanks for your misplaced concern...I guess. Ouf.

[@fun_ghoul]

@@guillaumepayant-tougas9977 Terrible, mostly because I haven't in fact tried this yet. TBC, I'm sure most people wouldn't call them "terrible", but IYKYK. 🍕

[@1960taylor]

Why make them then?

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Great Question👍 Click Here to Get Live Expert Help From Me For Just $5.00: kzbin.info/door/7fBqy8806u1r0NpPv_fQ2wjoin

[@shanam8625]

My self clean feature is only 20mins🤷🏾‍♀️

[@ES-ge7bb]

Does manual cleaning include commercial spray products? I heard that scratching the enamel during manual cleaning isn't good either.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Can you send that same question to my email address at: [e-mail]

[@oddjob7821]

So the self clean os actually a self destruct mechanism ?

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Exactly, some can be used many times before self-destruct. Others perish on 1st use😬

[@EVMacD]

Soooo, instead of self-cleaning, we should call it self-destruct feature.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You are so right😂😂😂

[@honestlycameron2807]

What are your thoughts on newer ovens? Specifically a brand new Kitchenaid oven KOSE500ESS? Manual says to self clean it every 2-4 months. We have had it six and I was thinking about using this feature. Now I've seen your video and one other that say do not use self clean.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

It’s a big gamble, I wouldn’t do it👍

[@ImADish]

I ran our new GE through a self- clean cycle and the circuit board went ka-BOOM! Roiling black smoke up from the panel. As our repairman walked in, he smiled and said "You ran the self-clean, didn't you." Do it before your warranty expires? Ha

[@kallenyc]

@@ImADish I'm also wondering about how easily it is to use the warranty if you first try it when still covered.

[@imadish5356]

@@kallenyc GE was very easy. Took them about a week to get here, but it was a long week! Nothing on the stove works when the panel goes. I don't use self-clean anymore!

[@laurier155]

My oven light came on during self cleaning mode now it won’t go off . I keep pressing the on/off light and it won’t now it won’t go off at all

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Hi Laurie, Can you turn off the breakers for your oven for 3 hours and then check it again 👍

[@shamilton2719]

Thanks for the advice!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You’re very welcome😊

[@GaryYoung-eq1ph]

How about easy clean??

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

That should work 👍

[@Gulpathfinder]

Self-cleaning in ovens is like auto-start-stop ignition in cars…. Both are solutions looking for problems, and they end up causing problems. 🤦‍♂️

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You speak the truth brother 👍

[@davemoss9505]

If it's too good to be true it's not true. The only way to keep your oven to clean us to treat it right and to stay on top of it.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

You are so right Dave👍

[@harrisford97]

This vid scared me so much l started scrubbing while it was playing. I learn much more about the equipment by being hands on. Great info.

[@AnnDrogyne]

Pyrolytic Cleaning, They are really mean for lazy People who hardly ever clean their oven. I have steam oven which when you use the steamer it cleans at the same time.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Good idea😊

[@kpadalldotablet1009]

LOL, here we go. Literally billions of self cleaning oven cycles with no adverse over the last 50 years, mostly with no problems?

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Tell that to the 20 or so people each year that I’ve fixed their oven due to damage from self clean.

[@WilliamEllison]

If it breaks the oven why have the feature. What a rip-off!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

They usually have trouble after a few years.

[@catdash4390]

If you have a concern about the temperature melting the wire insulation to the stove elements, before you begin self clean just simply raise the stove burner deck by simply pulling it up and locking it into place so it is elevated. In a nice way this video is a bunch of BS!

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Tell that to all my customers who ruined their ovens using self-clean : melted elements, tripped high limits, warped drip pans, toasted controllers, stuck oven doors, etc. All occurring from using self-clean.

[@fun_ghoul]

"Cat Dash" must be an appliance salesman.

[@FastFreeFixes]

That is very likely 👍

[@wxr7118]

BS video to get clicks 🙄, it's completely safe to use self-clean. People will eat anything you feed them these days.

[@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel]

Tell that to the 40 of my customers who had used self-clean and ended up with blown high limits, warped heat deflectors, melted knobs, fried bake elements and cooked controllers.

[@TheBvirgilio86]

I sold appliances for many years and have seen a couple dozen customers that had to pay for expensive repairs or new ovens after using the self clean cycles. Sometimes it was the auto door locking mechanism that wouldn't release the door after the cycle was over, but most of the time it was damaged control boards from the excessive heat leaking out the seals and vent. Happened to older $450 units as well as higher end $3,500 units. More and more are coming with both cycles or just the steam cycle now. One person commented that it made no sense with so many manufactures selling that feature. Well, they do it because it's a feature some people want regardless, but it also makes no sense why Whirlpool would continue to make top freezer refrigerators year after year that use small drain tubes for the defrost cycle that repeatedly get clogged and frozen over that eventually cause water to leak in the fridge portion. Or why Samsung would continue to use underrated capacitors in some of their televisions causing expensive repairs if not under warranty, and then replace the electrical board with the same one that uses the same capacitor instead of the proper size one that the local TV repair man and DIYers have figured out 10+ years ago. I probably have 50+ examples of thing appliance manufactures do to save money, stay competitive and keep you coming back to buy more products. The S Korean companies weren't good about supplying replacement parts, even for their typical frequent repair items because they'd rather start getting consumers used to the idea of having to buy replacement appliances more frequently. All the manufacturer reps would come into the store telling us that everything was so much more efficient than the older models that customers would still save money and get a better performing product even though they claimed the new duty cycles would be 3-5 yrs for dishwashers and 5-7 years on fridges and HE Laundry. They also used those stats to push extended warranties. The funny thing is, in may cases certain brands did only last 3-5 and 5-7 years. Pretty pathetic, and the products weren't wearing out because of their high performance, they were breaking because of crappy design flaws and cheaper parts. So many customers made purchases because something was pretty or had a fancy look, and many of the manufacturers used that to their advantage. lol Sorry for long read, but could literally go on for hours.

[@TheBvirgilio86]

@@ScottTheFixItGuyChannel You are not wrong. I've been advising people against self clean for probably 15 years, including my aunt that asked me about it just last week.

[@fun_ghoul]

@@6.2ltrv85 Ya know what doesn't make sense? Simple-ass people who think manufacturers' goal is to make the best, most reliable product. It isn't. Rather, it's for their companies to make the absolute highest profit every quarter, period. And how do they do that? By selling the most (in our example) ovens and oven parts! I dare you to tell me your fancy rig rocket is as reliable as a 1969 C10. Go ahead...

[@fun_ghoul]

@@TheBvirgilio86 I talked trash about salespeople, but you're a good one. Of course, the real sleazeballs are typically higher up the food chain...