The Entire History of RPGs

[@ianfrazier9896]

Hi! I was the lead designer on Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. For the record, the game DID turn a profit. Not a smash hit but respectable for a first outing. It just didn’t generate enough profits to fund an MMO at 38 Studios in addition to keeping Big Huge Games afloat-the amount it would have had to make in a very short time to clear that bar was untenable. (The whole story is very complicated, but I feel compelled to at least address that one point, as it’s a common misunderstanding)

[@kradylladel2785]

Chakrams were sick

[@ZombieOfun]

Oh wow, what a treat! Kingdom's of Amalur is good fun. I hope you are proud of your work there

[@Ma1q444]

Cook him

[@michiyaslana5974]

I loved Kingdoms of Amalur, one of the most fun combat systems I’ve ever played and it was so, so pretty!

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

I played it at least 4 times through and loved every bit! Especially my Jack of all trades playthrough. I bought it because Todd MacFarlanes name was on the case and I loved spawn figures! I've also never met anyone who's played it and DIDNT enjoy it!

[@NeverHard]

I can't believe we're far enough into the 2020's that we can have such a deep dive into the 2010's and the effect they've had on RPGs. It felt like only yesterday.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

yeah like. 1980 was over 40 years ago

[@sicko990]

There are things we learn and things we experience "time flies" my bros.

[@0larue0]

Amen ​@@sicko990

[@phyxion123]

2020s can already be crowned the worst decade of the last 80 years

[@rusty7448]

@@phyxion123 rough "start" indeed. But it can still recover.

[@mshepherd2154]

2010/11 having Mass Effect 2, Skyrim, Fallout New Vegas, Dark Souls, and Witcher 2 all in that 2yr span was INSANE to experience

[@EpicBunty]

in terms of quality the Fallout 3, Mass Effect and Bioshock times around 2007 were pretty good as well.

[@bake-io1cf]

and only Dark Souls was good

[@TheRealDanEman]

Go back 2 months to November '09, and add Dragon Age: Origins as well! :)

[@ben6993]

It was a bad thing, you couldn’t decide which game to play 🤣

[@electricant55]

@@bake-io1cfbait

[@NotaVampyre111]

Oh my goodness, what a trip down memory lane. My very first "PC" was the Atari 800. My first game was Temple of Apshai. As time went on I moved into DOS driven PCs, While I didn't play all these games, I played a good portion of them. The technology started getting better almost faster than I could keep up and the games kept pushing the limits of the machines. To play the newer games made upgrading your pc mandatory. Back in the day, I had reams of notes and hand drawn maps on graph paper. The first auto maps and quest logs were a godsend. I am 67 now and still gaming. This video is a great trip down memory lane. Thank you for making this video.

[@User-jj1ng]

TV EE e analisi di ieri weekend a WW e analisi dei w wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww eee w wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww e WWE anime wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww w e e e e e e e e e e e w w w w w w w WW e analisi dei w e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e hi

[@auellaitaela8035]

Purely anecdotal, but I was a teenager HUGE into crpg's in the mid/late 90's when Ultima IX came out, and another huge reason it flopped was that the requirements to even run it were MASSIVE. Like, if a game today required an RTX 4080 for minimum graphics, massive. Naturally neither me nor my other rpg friends could even afford it, only that one kid with rich parents that just got a new PC could run it. The one in our school that got it said it was fun, but I think he just wanted to sound cool because some of us went to try it and the bugs were basically unplayable. Basically a combination of hella bugs and the huge requirements would have made the game a launch flop even if there was a good game under it. That's how bad its circumstances were, it was doomed from quite a few angles. Figured I'd bring up my story since you didn't mention either angle when mentioning how bad it failed.

[@elasmojones]

yeah it felt more like a tech demo than a game...so many bugs

[@heatherharrison264]

My first Ultima game (and first proper RPG) was Ultima III. Ultima IX was a huge disappointment for longtime fans like me, as it had drifted too far from the characteristics that made those games great in the first place. However, the disappointment was not unexpected, as Ultima VIII was also a disappointment, albeit not to the same degree. In both cases, these games were trying to attract new audiences, but they failed to do so while alienating old fans at the same time. Ultima VIII has good ideas at its core, but it was rushed, and whoever thought it was a good idea to put platforming in a mainline Ultima game should have had his head examined. Ultima IX was ultimately wrecked by the decision to go after the latest technology rather than try to recapture the magic of Ultima VII. This resulted in development hell, bugs, unrealistic (and expensive) system requirements, and an awful lot of graphics with very little game. My computer couldn't play it at the time. By the time I had one that could, I had heard plenty of complaints about it, so I was no longer interested. The technology trap is still a problem. Developers that put so much emphasis on graphics that the quality of the game suffers are courting disaster.

[@clarkflavor]

@@heatherharrison264exactly - and you now got AAA modern console games running at janky 30 FPS :P it's quite comical

[@steveqi9309]

@@clarkflavorhey! 30 fps is perfectly fine for non action games.

[@Olfan]

Hadn't that already been the case with Ultima 8 - Pagan? I had to wait for years before it would run anywhere smoothly, and by then other games had gripped me.

[@mokebone]

Really glad that "entire history" seems to be becoming a long running series.

[@thomasffrench3639]

And if there’s a genre that needs it, it’s RPGs.

[@henrik1743]

I hope we get racing games next!!

[@FretboardToAsh]

I've heard 'entire history' is actually a continuous process, so it's only natural.

[@Zapper1993]

Give it a few years until "Entire History of Entire History of"

[@boohoo5419]

yeah chatGPT doesnt get tired so fast..

[@PaulVictorey]

"Then-esteemed PC publisher Electronic Arts" 🤣

[@maynardburger]

What's so funny? Maybe most of y'all are too young to know, but EA genuinely were a very respected publisher before. I'd also say that for all the valid criticism of them today, gamers often go too far and overblow many criticisms, while giving others a pass for doing much of the same shit.

[@shade0636]

@@maynardburger I believe what they found funny was the fact that EA isn't highly esteemed anymore, and the manner with which that was acknowledged in the video's script.

[@Grinnar]

It's true that EA was actually a force for good, way back in the day. Let that be a lesson how corruption is an ever present threat.

[@heatherharrison264]

In the 1980s, Electronic Arts made or published some of the best games. On the Atari 800, when I saw a game with the logo that Electronic Arts used back in the day, I knew it would be top quality. I still play some of those games to this day. It's sad to see what was once one of the best companies in the business turn itself into a joke.

[@ravenheartwraith]

@@maynardburger eh, by the late 90s EA was already the Borg buying off and killing venerable smaller studios like bullfrog etc. I already disliked them and saw their game quality as lower even then. A lot of the trends of corporate video game making were pioneered by EA in the late 90s.

[@thea4999]

just wanted to say your narration, scripting, pacing, editing, and overall presentation are all top notch. your love for the subject matter shines through clearly

[@ciscornBIG]

I'm 42 and been playing jrpgs, crpgs, and ttrpgs my entire life and I have seen it all. I am HERE for this video!!!

[@boru1982]

Many 40 somethings watching this video. Not many 40 somethings commenting they're here to watch the video.

[@ciscornBIG]

​@boru1982 no, there's a bunch actually. You don't have to do this, man. We were both lucky to get to be around for all this. Why can't we both be happy about that in our own way? Anyway, have a good one. I won't be back. Too old for this type of thing these days. 1981 after all. Thought I'd mention that just for you :)

[@johnnybensonitis7853]

I'm 40, here spending even more hours watching this guys videos. I've only just started to actually add up the hours I've spent here on just this channel alone and it's outta control! But hey, fuck it, best to just not think about it I reckon because I'm going to watch'em any goddamn way so why worry haha.

[@giampaolomannucci8281]

I'm 44 and a pirate since the Commodore 64 era, I've played everything, and I mean every thing best era for experimentation was the Amiga 500, to me, it was a good balance between people programming anything and genres not yet being consolidated in the days I used to receive 100 disks a month and some games I couldn't even play because they had no manuals, it's when buttons didn't even have tooltips :D now I'm a "gamepad nazi" on PC, sometimes I don't even play when a game forces me to use keyboard and mouse, I'm sick of the posture, want to lay back and play relaxed

[@LordofSyn]

​@@boru1982 Do you still play TTRPGs?

[@manofthehalfhour571]

Nice to see a shout out to Dragon Quest. RIP Mr. Akira Toriyama.

[@atlasmonkeyleon]

Toriyama-san will be truly missed, but his legacy will always continue to live on. On that note, I hope NeverKnowsBest decides to make a full video on JRPGs. There's so much to delve into.

[@2MinuteHockey]

Weird that after DQ4 they are all remakes of each other more/less.... The first trilogy was amazing and the series should have expanded on that plotline. Simple but still immersive.

[@Sennacherib-e9g]

A shout out to probably the 2nd biggest RPG video game franchise and literally the first JRPG in the history of RPG vids lol

[@khelsonofcenty]

there is only a shout out to dragon quest? it is one of the most influencial rpg in the world

[@Potent_Techmology]

it stopped being good after the trilogy and dq4, only overpriced remakes/rehashes after that@@khelsonofcenty

[@sheep6665]

One thing that has to be noted is that the "collapse" of hardcore RPGs in mid 2000's is that a lot of it is due to the fact that the few US based, RPG centric developers and publishers who survived the 1990's often accumulated debt from these failures(for instance Bioware went away from Interplay after BG2 was done because Interplay wasn't paying the full royalties from the sales of their game which shows that despite the seeming recovery the financial conditions were rather poor) and so they couldn't really adapt to the different conditions of the era, as downsizing meant interests couldn't be paid, making mainstream-appeal games was beyond their reach and making high production "oldschool" game was something they didn't have capital for. As these companies failed, the financial side of game development(investors, banks) decided that since the successful games in the genre are called Oblivion, Fable or KotOR rather than Temple of Elemental Evil or Lionheart then that's the end of the story on their financial viability. So in a certain way the crisis of the early 2000's was just an extension of the crisis of the mid 1990's.

[@anders630]

I consider the many forced low quality 3d FPS mode RPGs that few fans asked for helped to make this mess in the 90s but while I thought for example mm3-5 were great and mm6 (and there were probably worse examples) a buggy mess mm6 brought a lot of new ppl to the genre who thought the turn based versions were too outdated. I could ask if bg3 brought back the good old CRPG or was it things like critical role and other RPG streamers that brought a new audience who dont mind the old school ways? Would a game like bg 3 have thrived 10 years ago? maybe, but Im not so sure.

[@Twerkenstein]

@anders630 @sheep6665 Both of you gave some very nice/interesting bits of info and thought on top of the videos info wish i could like a comment twice :D

[@Jinkypigs]

​@@anders630you think too highly of "critical role" and others like them. Most gamers who buy BG3 won't know about them, especially outside the stale usa. In fact i will say that DD5e alienated many even as its dumb down mechanics brought in others, but still limited number of ttrpg player. And a good/ great game stands on its own merit.

[@DirranProductions]

​@@anders630BG3 hit at just the right time, but Pillars 1+2 did quite well.

[@bake-io1cf]

@@anders630 Critical role is a blight for Rpgs, all they brought were woke theater kids who don-t care about lore or roleplaying and only want to ship their lgbt furry mary sues forever. Its because of them that Wizards of the coast is implementing horrible changes to DnD and you can't have anything fun anymore because its problematic. The only reaosn BG3 gets praised so much is pandering to that crowd.

[@JohnsJustSaiyan]

Man watching almost 2 hours of older RPG’s to end up at Oblivion really puts into perspective how fuckin gorgeous and groundbreaking that game was when it came out

[@kevinlobos5519]

- Good day to you - ¿Have you heard of the high elves? - ¡Leave me alone! *they awkwardly part ways in random directions*

[@Vanadium]

Oblivion was groundbreaking? I dont think so.

[@Myhaay]

@@Vanadium it was, especially compared to the overhyping that skyrim got, which is basically the same thing looking a bit better with a better main story. (almost the only things better)

[@Vanadium]

@@Myhaay I don't compare it to Skyrim. Because Skyrim is only a escalation from Oblivion. Its just cranked up and lost even more core systems. This is why I dislike Oblivion the most. Losing exploration , losing open cities and marking forever lost PC interface for Bethesda. I can not understand why Oblivion is considered groundbreaking. What is the groundbreaking thing about it really?

[@kale280]

@@Vanadium morrowind had no depth. Just a bunch of fetch quests. And open sandbox is only worth what you can actually do inside of it, and that is what morrowind lacks.

[@mlegarth]

Opened this video, noticed the run time and said to myself. No way I'm watching a nearly 3 hr video. But decided just to watch the beginning for a nostalgia trip see if you'd included the SSI games I played in the 80s. You did include them and so many other great games. I've played at least 80% of them all. Amazing video, so spot on it should be used to teach young devs and gamers in general. Hopefully it's not just old farts like me who will love this video.

[@chungus816]

I was born in 2004 and I very much enjoyed this video although I'll admit the earliest game I recognized was wasteland

[@vaibhavdalip]

Wow how old are you 😅. Makes me want to go back and play some of these games to experience how great they must've been for the time

[@tempestive1]

I still play many to this day. It's nice to be able to play some like arcanum or morrowind on android, and satisfying to see remakes (Gothic I) popping up! Many trends on the gaming industry, and creating a common denominator for larger playerbases, made fundamental features disappear over time.

[@mlegarth]

@@vaibhavdalip 45... Unfortunately lol

[@vaibhavdalip]

@@mlegarth I'm 24 and lost. Any life advice?

[@novantha1]

Just chiming in to note that I'd love a "The entire history of JRPGs" in fact. Also, it's not just Baldur's Gate 3 and Larian in my mind. There was another industry veteran who was struggling with the shift in RPG markets, and came to critical acclaim in the same time frame as Baldur's Gate 3: Monolithsoft. They actually have a very similar arc to Larian, with Xenogears (technically the studio wasn't founded yet, but it was the same people who would go on to found it basically, fight me), in 1997 struggling to find truly great sales, and yet the people involved scraped by, learning with each entry, trying to make their dream come true, in this case an internal compass (Perfect Works) which they were aiming for, and which they abandoned with the release of Xenoblade Chronicles 3...Only to achieve even greater heights, and one of the most profound games I've ever played. It's not the moral ambiguity of Planescape Torment; it's the sheer unbridled optimism that can stare such a reality in its face and not falter. Anyway, just thought that studio would make a very fun parallel to Larian's arc, and it might not be something you'd consciously thought to look at.

[@RamblePak64]

What fascinates me most about Baldur's Gate 3 is that it was in early access for a few good years and wasn't exactly kept secret, and yet the 1.0 still managed to explode onto the scene and make a huge splash. On one hand, I have no doubt the Early Access money helped fund the development into being the successful game that it is, but on the other hand, I am ignorant as to how much was shown and hidden in Early Access that the 1.0 could be a big deal. In regards to a game like Hades, it was in early access on a specific platform (Epic Games Store), and so releasing onto Steam and console contributed greatly. But Baldur's Gate 3 didn't exactly have that same thing going (it did release on PS5, but a month after the PC release, at which point it was already a success).

[@bulletsandbracelets4140]

I played early access bg3 and didn't make it far - it was a very different game initially! extremely difficult and unforgiving, less mechanics and a less obvious UI, and less choice (only a somewhat limited version of act 1 was available). They really put a lot of work into their early access testing to polish it up and improve things and it so clearly shows. I don't think it would have reached nearly this amount of mainstream success without that test period. The team also marketed the main release a lot more, and I think that marketing catching on helped a lot as well.

[@Terszel]

I remember the early access version when I played it was very buggy and clunky. Most everyone had written it off as a flop already, I actually got surprised to hear it was releasing because I thought it already came out years ago and just got memory-holed lol

[@Asterra2]

I mean, I can answer that. Speaking as a case in point, I don't have the time or drive to investigate a game that's understood to be solidly in WIP mode. I'm sure that's the majority. Nobody's hurting for things to play in the meantime. It's the reason why I don't really mind that the FF7 remakes are stuck on an underpowered $400 doorstop for a couple of years before I can play them.

[@Dext3rM0rg4n]

Playing EA single player game is weird, especially 100 hours commitment game. If I'm starting a playthough I want to be able to finish it, when for multiplayer game it doesn't matter as much since there's no end.

[@rateater1857]

I remember playing the first EA version and it was a DI-SA-STER. Dialogues formatted in a HORRIBLE way, a bunch of really annoying systems like exhaustion ... - GOSH. But honestly, a lot of people just doesn't play EAs, periodt. I only played it because I'm a cRPG fanatic, I was raring for a fix, I love Baldur's Gate, and I already played Larian games before and loved them. Doubt anyone would just randomly picked it up without at least some of those traits.

[@Dayta]

ive had this video on hold for like 2 weeks it was in my tabs because of its length always putting it aside saved for the moment i can actualy watch it complete .. and now since ive seen it what a beaufitul and respectful way to walk through history ... i can only imagine all the work needed to create this one. and man it was worth it waiting for the moment i can actual sit back and relax and enjoy the video all the way through. thanks for this one .. this .. just great .. thank you

[@Missing_links-m6v]

Usually have long videos like this playing in the background while I listen to it and do other stuff

[@freelancershogun]

This video was well-made and genuinely a joy to watch. Thanks for the great work, NeverKnowsBest!

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

You clearly have an insider's understanding of the history of RPGs. You focus on exactly the right games, pause long enough to give the really innovative ones (e.g., Planescape Torment; Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines) the props they deserve; etc. I've subscribed to your Patreon.

[@intriguingfacts5434]

As an RPG lover since 90's...this is another enjoyable long video to fall asleep to

[@CampRodeo777]

Something about this genre of KZbin video. The long form talking with b roll. I love it.

[@tempestive1]

This intro of mine to your channel had to take place in two sittings, but whew, was it well worth it. Congratulations on masterful writing, framing and analysis. Looking forward to watching the rest of your content!

[@CaidicusProductions]

Man, your content is just so good. KZbin has started to consistently replay a lot of videos that I've already watched. Traditionally, I'd not watch a single video more than once, feeling like I'd gotten all I'd wanted from a presentation with a single watch. The thing is, by watching your videos more than once, there's just so much to gain from each viewing. Thank you for all of the work you put into your presentations.

[@cyprus1005]

delusional

[@Honest_Grifter]

Here we all are... committing 2.5hours to a neverknows documentary and couldn't be more excited to do so. What a great topic!

[@DyonisX]

you mean 1 hour 21 minutes

[@danieldosso2455]

2x speed, my friend

[@Libera4]

Im just sad its was not a 5 hour extravaganza

[@johnnybensonitis7853]

I have spent such an irresponsible amount of time watching vids on this channel lol shits' actually ridiculous.

[@One.Zero.One101]

I think NeverKnowsBest is the best video game analyst because he views the games in the context of the year they were released. So many analysts just crap on all the older games that built the foundation for the genre. NeverKnowsBest analyzes that impact of the game at the time, what innovations it brought, what made it different from its contemporaries.

[@geovaughan8261]

In all fairness, Final Fantasy I was directly based on D&D. It used its base classes, took inspiration from its combat system, directly lifted its spell system, and flat out plagiarized its monster manual. The series eventually moved away from it, but it did start with significant tabletop roots.

[@Syndicate_01]

Yep. All the way down to the Warrior class (or whatever they called it in FF1) getting healing spells at higher levels. Clearly inspired by the earliest versions of the Paladin, who didn't get Cleric (white mage) spells until they were like 2/3 of the way to their level cap. Unlike modern D&D where Pallies get spells at early levels.

[@Vaquix000]

Thank goodness they got more creative.

[@freeculture]

Which in turn its said to plagiarize Tolkien's Bestiary so... But certain creatures like hobbit had their names trademarked so halfling would do. Also v1 has Succubus, they removed them from v2, but thankfully were put back in in v3, not sure now, lost track of it. But generally, "taboo" topics scare the bigger companies. Whats wrong with sexually luring adventurers to extract their vitality? Counter bean cowards :) Fun fact in Japan around the 80ies copyright was more relaxed, but started getting harsher later, so in a way, they were forced to do their own stuff.

[@NiagaraThistle]

Every RPG from that time was derived heavily from D&D. D&D WAS Role Playing Game and video games that wanted to be an RPG were heavily influenced by it. I miss games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy 1.

[@Force-Multiplier]

I love the lack of logic here apparently FF is a DD copy because it copied "classes" i wonder if you also think DD created warriors mages and the likes? as if those things weren't Fantasy elements from books and folklore to begin with you're an exemplary example of not understanding that there is no real origin to these things and a game using it first on with a board for a platform doesn't make it the father of RPGs *in videogames* these things existed well before D&D

[@dericlima]

Holyyyy!!! This was a masterpiece of a video. So much care and research put in it. I loved the way the timeline was built and explained. Congrats for the amazing work, you got a new subscriber!!!

[@denniscarr9234]

Great video! I totally understand your decision to sidebar JRPGs given the length of this video, but I still would have liked to see you note their ongoing influence on western RPGs. In particular, Bioware is on the record saying that Final Fantasy VII was the reason they decided to shift their focus more toward strong characterization and cinematic storytelling from Baldur's Gate 2 onward, and many other western developers followed suit. Outside of direct design inspiration, the massive success of Final Fantasy VII made many western developers turn their heads and wonder what they might be able to achieve if they reached the console audience. It is more difficult to find direct inspiration in the PS3/Xbox 360 era as western AAA took off and Japanese games became less popular with the mainstream audience, but there are of course many indie games that are unmistakably indebted to JPRGs, and the Souls approach to design has had a creeping influence that is starting to be seen more and more. Speaking of which, when you were talking about the decline of RPGs before bringing up Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring felt like a big omission. Like BG3, it showed that mainstream audiences are starting to come back around to more old school design sensibilities.

[@Professor_Mitchell]

It's a somewhat questionable decision given the past couple of years have exposed that more than a few critics have used the term "JRPG" in a derogatory manner. (Not saying he's intentionally implying or doing such, but it's a thorny subject and it would be pretty easy to paint yourself into a metaphorical corner.) We know there has been plenty of influence back and forth between all studios, be they Japanese, American, European, or otherwise. Western made JRPG-style games like Anachronox and Septerra Core did exist, after all. If it was a question of video length, then the whole thing might would have better off with dividing this into multiple videos by decade. One video covering RPGs of the 80s (JRPGs included), one covering RPGs of the 90s, and so on.

[@AcerbusSanctum]

Especially considering a lot of the problems he went over in the video, those gaps were filled by JRPGs. In times he said the "RPG genre" was in decline, JRPGs were flourishing. Since the 80s, Japan has not stopped putting out great games (not to say western games aren't also great).

[@KStarPR]

Yeah leaving out RPGs that happened to be from Japan really dampens the "Entire History" thing because most "JRPGs" are turn-based, and most of this video was CRPGs or Action-RPGs. He says that the definition got muddled as RPGs became more like other genres & other genres got more RPG elements, but it feels like mostly the early segments are RPGs while the rest are RPG-adjacent. Maybe I'm biased, though. Heck, turn-based (J)RPGs can be expanded into other genres like TRPGs like Fire Emblem & X-Com, plus stuff like deck-building card games. EDIT: I guess what I really mean is that what this video sort of sees as the history & evolution of RPGs to me is more them.straying away from their roots, while (J)RPGs kept closer to them. This video even sorta treats dungeon crawlers, roguelikes/lites, and Action-RPGs as pretty much the same thing, although I'd argue dungeon crawlers & roguelikes/lites are closer to classic RPGs than 90% of the games discussed here. I'd argue what we call "Western RPGs" mostly adhere to the story & immersive elements of D&D while "JRPGs" take the turn-based combat, stats, & dungeon-crawling elements. Western is very Ultima, Japanese is very Wizardry, if that makes any sense.

[@Jon_Cummins]

Ya not including jrpgs is like talking about consoles without including Nintendo lol

[@joed5150]

It seems to be a theme with this dudes channel. Seems to have something against jrpg's for whatever reason

[@klex3905]

Perfect timing for a rainy Saturday evening!!

[@malchir4036]

if that's a euphemism for massive diarrhea we're shit-buddies!

[@RizzyTizzyLando]

😂​@@malchir4036

[@swami_young8238]

Doubt you’re in my area, but rainy Saturday for me too. Only thing that would make this more perfect is if this vid dropped right before I was going to bed, lmao

[@markjarvis6109]

Raining here too

[@resmarted]

I wish it was raining harder

[@MrValgard]

Transition from 80' to 90' decade RPGs was mind-blowing jump

[@D3lor34n]

Your work and channel is SUCH a gem. Thank you once again!

[@Iamfivebears]

Ecstatic to see the mention of Spiderweb. The Exile/Avernum games are my internal definition for what an RPG is.

[@LoudSodaCaleb]

Love to see some love for Jeff Vogel

[@tabercorn]

I'm constantly impressed your ability to pump out such long and high quality videos in such short time frames

[@rreece90]

Wow, Gothic 1/2 are mentioned - 2001/2003 open world RPGs that were in many ways 10-15 years ahead of their time, containing many mechanics that were reinvented later in Skyrim and even The Witcher 3. Yet nobody outside of Germany and a few of its neighboring countries seems to be aware of the existence of these games.

[@0815Mann]

NKB made a whole video about the Gothic series!

[@classica1fungus]

Mandalore put it on the map, atleast it's the only person I've ever heard talk of it

[@slyseal2091]

@@classica1fungus his evil, moustache twirling counterpart made a video on it too

[@Carnefice]

Mortismal has videos on them as well

[@deesevrin8570]

Nawt Fax.

[@zodiac909]

You said you were not planning to cover the history of Japanese RPGs, I think you should. This video is amazing well written, and produced. Well done.

[@godless_comedian6667]

Incredibly well-done video and deeply appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to make it.

[@8Paul7]

RPGs are the royal genre of videogames, offering most agency and interactivity in shaping their narrative and gameplay experience. Lovely video.

[@thomasffrench3639]

Nah, platformers a royal genre of gaming. Pure gameplay

[@noblebojack]

@@thomasffrench3639nah, FPS better 👺

[@MetalGearyaTV]

@@noblebojack fps is the shallowest genre. it's just pew-pew to targets with the least amount of depth and even player's agency. Like Matthewmatosis said in Bioshock infinite review, you cannot even avoid enemy shots, you're just a sponge standing in the open.

[@noblebojack]

@@MetalGearyaTV I know bro, I was just joking

[@system0fadowner251]

​@MetalGearyaTV most FPS yes, but when you combine FPS with deeper gameplay systems and narrative choice, you get something like Cyberpunk which, despite its disastrous launch, is a fantastic game.

[@microphytobenthos]

Excellent video-essay, as always. Thank you NeverKnowsBest!

[@pomelomarino7710]

Bethesda didn't create VATS. That system was born in Fallout 1, you just never had the dextrerity to use it.

[@Cheyne_TetraMFG]

Gotta put enough agility points in for that kinda build, but it’s so worth it.

[@pomelomarino7710]

@@Cheyne_TetraMFG its a game changer, an entire mechanic hidden if you don't have the stats.

[@chickenxchaser]

I'm assuming you're talking about 'Targeted Shots' and 'Agility' :)

[@Cheyne_TetraMFG]

@@pomelomarino7710 honestly I kind of love that. It’s like you’re secretly rewarded when you build your character differently. My favorite is low INT dialogue, that shit is hilarious.

[@pomelomarino7710]

@@Cheyne_TetraMFG intelligence 1 is something else

[@yosif8235]

The kid aged 14 that got about 140,000$ cause a company from California found out about his work was very fortunate to be living in a time there was a sense of honor. They helped spread his game out and gave him a fair share especially for his age, these days these evil astards would have taken him for all he's got even though it was his work. Blizzard comes to mind.... Sadly I think they would have just sued him.

[@freeculture]

These days you would be a fool to go to a publisher, when you could just do it yourself. Let them die, screw the "aaa" crowd. Even if you get bigger, you could use the likes of Steam, etc. The so called "Indies" of today are larger teams than most game productions in the 80ies, with some notable exceptions...

[@ao1778]

You're a naive clown. There was no "sense of honor" that prevented them from screwing the guy over. The decision was made in order to maximize their own profits while throwing him a couple scraps in order to avoid potential legal issues down the road. People have been ripping others off and stealing ideas for thousands and thousands of years.

[@johngregory5580]

Wonderful essay again, Never. Pleased to hear you sound so positive in the outro also after the trouble you had last year/year before. Looking forward to you next vid, as usual. Just wish I could afford to support you financially. Thanks again.

[@burakahmettr8193]

rest in peace akira toriyama. he even contributed to computer gaming in 1986, damn.

[@egoalter1276]

Yep, DragonQuest is a cornerstone of the medium.

[@polkadi]

If you see a blue slime in a fantasy/RPG environment, whether in games or manga, that directly traces back to him.

[@nishitagarwal8614]

@@polkadi nope its from wizardry

[@RAWchaosify]

It feels kind of odd having a video titled "The Entire History of RPG's" and then have the JRPG side of RPG's as nothing more than a foot note. Not a single mention of the RPG that created the most profitable media franchise in the world, let alone the numerous smaller franchises that have risen in popularity in the JRPG sphere in the past decade. Maybe that would be outside the scope of this video and warrant it's own dedicated one in which case this video would be more like "The Entire History of Western RPG's". Other than that though, absolutely wonderful video. I'm probably going to come back to this as a giant recommendation list as I've always wanted to get into the more dedicated western RPG's but have always been scared away by their depth until recently.

[@gabrielwag]

Yeah, when in that segment he started saying "this is story for another video" after going all over the years my reaction was "wait, am I not watching the entire history of RPGs? How is this not story for this video?!"

[@gabrielwag]

@@FictionPunktion specially when he showed numbers, they were selling millions of copies in the 80s while games in the west were selling a fifth of that. Too big an elephant to ignore.

[@Jesion-kv9tu]

JRPGs aren't actually RPGs as you don't do any role-playing in them, people call them that because mechanically they don't fit anywhere else

[@valiwaggg]

No mention of chrono trigger/ cross is also very strange.

[@SergejKrolik]

@@Jesion-kv9tu it depends on the title. While majority of jrpgs are like you said - there are ones with more or less blank protagonist with rather high level of customization and freedom of choice. For example - Shim Megami Tensei series.

[@peterknudsen3490]

Wow, came out of nowhere and stole my entire evening. Keep up the good work!

[@DGeass92]

The rarity but monumentality of your videos make a notification of them going up a real bang. Another great vid that comes at a very proper time for me personally, had a blast watching, and I even got teary eyes from Morrowind and Baldur's Gate 3 parts.... You know how to write and direct a moving piece of a vid ye sly fox! :) Patiently waiting for that Baldur's Gate video ;)

[@wow5heyy]

So well made... Love watching these "history of" videos from you. I always find myself wondering how in the world you even research something this comprehensive

[@gregruopp4437]

Man… my wife was born 10 years too late… she would be crushing these these mid 80’s rpg’s Thanks for the history course ! I didn’t know hardly any of this pre 95ish!

[@MarymonckiJohn]

It's great to have you back! Love the video! I'll expand on this: interesting and rich information on a fascinating subject presented in a right way with your calm voice with good, appropriate soundtrack and visual material just helps me to get through my sometimes difficult life and emotions. Just like our interests and hobbies I guess. But it makes some much difference how it is talked about and presented. And I lived through much of this history as well. Thank you!

[@andymurray8620]

Good video, and as an "old man" (well, "internet old"), it kind of felt like watching the story of my life, as someone who was playing Ultima, Wizardry, and Might & Magic back in the 80s, still has my FF1 in box with the manual on a shelf behind me, and spent way too many thousands of hours playing MUDs. The only thing I would say, is I don't think the golden age of JRPGs is really getting it's due. The era of SNES titles like Earthbound, FF2/4-3/6, Chronotrigger, Secret of Mana, and many more, was a really big deal. In fact this is probably the gaming era I look back on with the most nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses. The soon to come crpgs like Fallout/BG/Icewind Dale/Planescape is the only other era that comes close or contends with the true "golden age" title for me. For people my age (basically, teenagers in the 90s), it *feels* like this is a universal feeling, though it is just a feeling. It is hard to know how much of that is truly universal, and how much is just subjective and personal.

[@asimplenameichose151]

Universal for me as well, probably a similar age :)

[@Bill_Garthright]

You were a teenager in the 90's? I was a teenager in the 60's. So if you're "internet old," I must be "internet dead," huh? :) I got my first PC in the 90's, but I've never owned a video console, and I don't think I've ever played a JRPG. I have fond memories of most of the games mentioned in the video, though.

[@andymurray8620]

@@Bill_Garthright Lol, yes sir those are very heavy quotes on my "old man." The context of day to day life vs. online spaces tends to produce very different age ranges for sure. (I actually remember playing FFXI online when I was around 21, and thinking a 35ish year old guy was "old" at that time). 🤔

[@maynardburger]

Not getting its due? He almost completely ignores JRPG's as a whole, which is crazy for a video called 'complete history of RPG's'. No, this video is basically entirely about western RPG's. I get the feeling he doesn't think JRPG's are *real* JRPG's, which is something I see among more elitist western RPG fans.

[@andymurray8620]

@@maynardburger Yes I kind of get it though - if one is looking back it is hard to see any kind of straight line from like...Breath of Fire II, to Skyrim. It was sort of it's own branch in the history of video game evolution. The funny thing is I also think games like Daggerfall and even Morrowind sometimes get a bit *too much* credit, at least for how impactful they were for their time (and I played them both), because when we look back, that straight line to Skyrim, et al, is of course very easy to draw.

[@mike213465]

Excellent video! Love the musical cues leading into different sections of the video. Especially when the instrumental version of Lohse’s theme started playing near the video’s climax.

[@danw3735]

Been there from the start, what an amazing video you created.

[@JakMakai]

You must be full of wild tales from the beginning of RPGs. I'm a bit jealous

[@desrever1138]

I was planning on watching this video in segments. Nearly 3 hours later I'm still craving more. Great video!

[@nickblomgren]

Great video. Small nitpick: The original Final Fantasy II on the NES was the first game in the series to remove "character creation". It should be noted that character creation in that series is surprisingly traditional, and you can find it even in it's most recent entries. The Job System would be introduced after FFII for FFIII, and take the base jobs from the original Final Fantasy and just run with it. By FFV the job system had become even more advanced. This underlying class system would find different permutations throughout the series. Materia from FFVII would essentially allow you change the function of a character on-the-fly, a concept it's Remake would just run with by adding a weapon upgrade system that essentially funneled characters into literal different builds. FFVIII practically allowed you for better or worse to program the _literal functions_ of your characters stats and even actions in battle. And while FFX's progression was linear, try playing the international sphere grid system because that's a wild fun time. I know it'd be daunting: But I'd recommend you make that JRPG video. The more I've learned about JRPG history, especially pre-famicom history, the more the entire genre comes into focus. It would be difficult, but I think it's something that would be incredibly beneficial. What is obvious to me now is that there's a lot of misconceptions on even the basic history of RPG's from Japan and it's importance cannot be overstated. Like, Balders Gate 3 is my favorite game this year. But I know my appreciation of the genre wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for these games. I find there's more overlap beyond selecting dialog options or a medieval fantasy setting that we've sorta collectively not noticed.

[@thomasffrench3639]

The problem with making a JRPG video is how much important and influential information and games are locked behind a language barrier. Tengai Makyo is an example of a highly influential game that has not even received a fan translation until recently. It is very daunting and I only know as much as I do because of a random link to a Japanese website, Jeremy Parish and Famidaily. It is very hard to find this stuff

[@thomasffrench3639]

A lot of JRPG info is locked behind language barriers. Tengai Makyo for example is a highly influential JRPG that did not get a translation until a few months ago. Only historians and nerds like RndStranger actually know this history due to knowing Japanese. There’s websites, but whenever I post the name of those websites my comment gets deleted

[@Doombacon]

Never does have a retrospective on the final fantasy series specifically you may enjoy. The largest barrier to a jrpg history is a language one and with large amounts of print and web records being even more difficult to source properly without speaking the language I have a feeling that Never wouldn't been satisfied with what he would reasonably be able to produce on the topic. Hopefully someday he'll be pulling down enough money to hire research staff for such a project

[@thomasffrench3639]

@@Doombacon yeah the only info I can find is auto translations of Japanese websites for gaming. One thing I find hilarious is the reception of Wizardry. In the west the first 3 games are considered outdated and the last 3 games are excellent, and in Japan the first 3 games are masterpieces, and the last 3 games are kusoge. It’s insane

[@derrickcrowe3888]

While you're technically right about FF2 not having character creation, the characters were still pretty much blank slates. Firion could be built as a mage, a swordsman, a healer, an archer, etc. without any limitations. While it didn't have the traditional creation at the beginning of the game, you kind of continued to create and shape your characters throughout the game. FF4 was the first game to not have really any input in how your characters developed. Cecil can only be a Dark Knight/Paladin. He can only use swords, and his stats and skills will always develop the same way. So even if this video's claim wasn't technically true from a mechanical perspective, I think it is true with regard to discussion of evolving trends in RPGs away from sandboxes and more toward structured narratives with defined characters.

[@jfalconredskins]

These documentaries are some of the best Ive seen. Amazing work as usual.

[@draconic_beba]

Well then i hate to disappoint but based on my extremely deep love for from soft i can tell you this vide is whole wrong as for timelines and events, at least in japan because fromsof did kingsfield way back in 1994, qnd then did demon souls the precursor to dark souls in 2009

[@Dan-yk6sy]

Back when the universe was contained in an infinitely small point....

[@xKambr]

NeverKnowsBest is the definitive retrospective. Perfection, every time. Thanks again for another lengthy, detailed and we'll polished presentation. Always looking forward to the next one!

[@janpedersen9120]

best of the best, really entertaining... had to cut it over a few days, but this is really nice done.. thanks for your effort..

[@JohnSmith-fc7mp]

RPGs are games that systematize the playing of a role. Many games will let you play a role, but seldom have intricate systems around playing that role. For instance, many games let you fight enemies, but only RPGs take into account how strong and dexterous your character is, how much experience he has using his weapon and how much battle experience he has in general. Many games might depict your character trying to talk themselves out of a situation, but only an RPG will let the player do the talking, and perhaps even make your chances of success based on how charismatic and intelligent your character is. So on and so forth. RPGs aren't just games where you play a role, they're games that try to have systems around the playing of roles

[@Sazed0]

The inclusion of systems is important. It's why I'm so annoyed by people who claim games like Cyberpunk aren't RPGs because they don't have enough narrative choice. Narrative choice was never the sole defining element of the genre, only people who take the words "role-playing" at face value think that. You need stats of some sort.

[@chefman134]

@@Sazed0 or people who argue that something like Skyrim doesn't count as an RPG because it strayed away from traditional tabletop mechanics and was too streamined. Skyrim is a game where you play as a dragon blooded force of nature, and the gameplay systems reflect that.

[@Malhonn]

so a better name would be Systematic Role Playing Game?

[@Magnus_Loov]

@@chefman134 I don't know. Skyrim, as many modern RPG-like games, is action based. The true RPG:s were turn based and depended only on tactical skill and a bit of randomness (luck, the dice). Also, classic TSR turn based games often were built upon fellowships, like in "Lord of the Rings", were you often is in control of a group of people, 6 being the most common. To me a very large part of core RPG gameplay is the strategical decisions in combining the different types of characters with different skillsets that made up the group of followers and then also the tactical choices how they were used in a fight. But that has been a debate since the first non-turn-based games appeared with more action focus and less strategy focus. Not that the more action-focused single player (or player plus companions) are bad. It is just a different mix of genres to me, that still is fun, but I feel that it is more about FPS-action with some RPG elements ass add-ons and not a game where the strategy and choices you make is in focus. One of my favorite "mixed genre" games is actually Deus-Ex, the original one. I think the "choice-depending" games where a choice you make will have game-story changing consequences further on, is the most interesting type. But also the one that it is the hardest to nail for developers.

[@Sicho84]

@@Magnus_Loov Morrowind still had dice rolls-to-hit even though it was visualized as FPS action

[@ReaperspearX]

Here's a fun fact about Ultima VIII: the main character is also in Dungeon Keeper 1, it's the avatar!

[@CryptoMarketSummary]

NeverKnowsBest is the best. Amazing content and historical lessons in here. Never stop doing these.

[@liquiddude9855]

1:33:30 .... "In their place came new names like Bethesta, Bioware and Blizzard" ... Funny how the wheel turns and history repeats itself

[@decaffeinatedcolombian]

lol was thinking the exact same thing

[@NirielWinx]

Neverwinter Nights is still being actively developed. It's been 22 years, and yet it still receives graphical updates, bug fixes, new content, but also: the Aurora scripting language keeps expanding. I remember that I had to jump through hoops and come up with weird workarounds in order to do some simple things in 2002, while other things were just impossible. The freedom now is insane. I'm not sure where they get the money to keep working on it.

[@HurricaneSA]

China. Anything published by Perfect World Entertainment is backed by Chinese money. Also, the MMO is just called Neverwinter. Neverwinter Nights was the CRPG. I used to love that game, not gonna lie. And I spent almost a decade in the MMO too. But as with all things, it has changed too much to ever be what it was. Very few people nowadays would make custom scenarios and that is what made Neverwinter so amazing. The user stories.

[@atlijorund8791]

@@HurricaneSA I think he is talking about the original NN. It had multiplayer that was (and still is) very active, especially back in the day. It's a stretch to call it an MMO since it lacks the "massive" part, though.

[@HurricaneSA]

@@atlijorund8791Ah, my bad. I did not realize people still played the original online. Live and learn I guess.

[@NirielWinx]

@@HurricaneSA > What MMO? What China? What is "perfect world"??? I'm talking about NWN from Bioware released in 2002, which is what this video talks about. It's currently being developed by Beamdog, which is in Canada.

[@HurricaneSA]

@@NirielWinx Yeah, I'm pretty sure you already read the above comments before replying but like I said, I got the two mixed up as very few people are likely aware the 2002 version is still alive. Once again, my bad.

[@Ravy_Nevermore]

How can JRPGs (and for that matter MMORPGs) only be a footnote in "the entire history of RPGs"? Both of those subgenres are so important to the genre as a whole. Especially when going over how the industry struggled to adapt to 3d graphics in the late 90s and early 00s, all I could think about was what Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft were doing at the time. Descent to Undermountain came out a year after Final Fantasy VII?? Insane.

[@blucoll]

The Channel already have in-depth video about jrpg and mmorpg I believe.

[@awsomeboy360]

He's going to make a dedicated JRPG video in the future. JRPG were and are currently VERY impactful for RPG's so naturally he'll delve into that.

[@Ravy_Nevermore]

@@awsomeboy360 Good, I look forward to it! Still wish the most prominent and influential RPGs from Japan and multiplayer RPGs had also been integrated into something titled "The Entire History of RPGs" tho.

[@DodgeThisBam]

Your outro brought tears to my eyes. As someone who has become very jaded to video games with the rise of micro transactions, loot boxes and the cannibalization of smaller studios by larger ones, Baulders Gate 3 (And the amazing indie scene) haven't just sparked the joy I've been missing in gaming but leaving me with hope for the future. Thank you for such a fantastic video! It was an absolute joy from start to finish.

[@rubenrodriguez826]

Here here. Cheers founder and friend alike, amen.

[@TheKorath]

Thanks for this, Ultima IV was my first RPG and I grew up looking longingly at advertisements for The Bard's Tale and Pool of Radiance in magazines like Byte and Nibble. I feel that computer gaming has trouble properly acknowledging it's foundational titles as the focus is so often on what's currently popular. It can be hard for younger people to go back and play these games with the same set of eyes as a lot of what made these games special has become part of the common fabric of gaming. It's really a time and a place in danger of being lost.

[@joel6376]

26:23 most RPGs of this time were technically dungeon crawlers Thats because most TTRPGs at the time were also technically dungeon crawlers, or that is the key reason people played them. You should look into the OSR scene and see why they like dungeon crawling, it is interesting, particularly when you compare it to what dnd is today, what these early CRPGs are and what CRPGs are today.

[@patiencebear]

"Old School Renaissance" - never heard that before. But interesting. Thanks for the tipp.

[@KyriosHeptagrammaton]

I got into OSR about 5 years ago, and it awakened in me a love I didn't Know I had for TTRPGS. I always thought they were close to what I wanted, but never quite scratched that itch. Never realized I just needed to go back to Basic/0e

[@paulodelima5705]

Dungeon crawlers were easier to make, cheaper.

[@joel6376]

@@paulodelima5705 In what way?

[@paulodelima5705]

@@joel6376 They cost less money do make compared to other types of RPGs.

[@mikedelgrande5296]

This was such a fantastic video. Thank you for your work on these. I was born in the 80s and have been gaming my entire life so I remember almost all of these. Baldur's Gate 3 was a breath of fresh air.

[@therevenancy]

Beautiful work showing your love for the genre man. A lot of us appreciate it.

[@ChairmanKam]

44:06 You are my hero for including QfG. I would have mentioned its writers made it seem more like tabletop because it felt like a transcription or their DMing. But seriously, thank you!

[@lukasketner]

Quest for Glory, that series was an absolute dream for me growing up. King's Quest point-and-clickers with stats and cool stories. It's everything I loved in one series.

[@soundscabsmusic]

Quest for Glory had a lot of character to it. It was a brilliant idea to merge the point-and-click adventure game with an RPG because the adventure side has the charm and the story telling advantage, while the RPG brings more immersion into that story with player growth and progression by having you improve your abilities. The merging of situational problem-solving, puzzles, survival, real-time combat, and inventory / relationship / and time management was a hell of a lot but I have never played anything that came to life quite like it.

[@michaelk8860]

Another fantastic video. So happy you are still creating quality content that educates, inspires, and creates a sense of nostalgia and hope. As I've said before, your videos have always provided enjoyment and added depth to a form of entertainment that I have been enraptured by since I was a kid in the '80's. Thank you, once again.

[@bupp291]

Just an incredible amount of work put into this video. Crazy to think that this could have been so much longer as well, but you did an excellent job of telling the story of the evolution of the RPG. Great work!

[@mrscruffy8045]

11:30 : "We create worlds" was the actual slogan of origin systems (Ultima-series)

[@jamesmeow3039]

I much prefer this to the drama videos

[@musasadik7055]

agreed

[@One.Zero.One101]

I didn't plan to watch this in one sitting but I just couldn't put it down. The history lesson is so gripping even though I haven't played the older games like Ultima and Wizardry. He puts so much context and background into the games that I feel invested in their story.

[@TheHazzl]

I agree, although I respect that this is his channel and that he can use it to voice his opinion and wants to bring attention to things that are important to him. I am thankful for his content.

[@mattmilliken1510]

While yes it was technically a drama video, he was standing up for someone he felt was innocent when no one else would. That's not exactly keemstar type shit.

[@matthewsmith1779]

This comment is just ASKING for drama!!

[@ravenheartwraith]

and I'm old enough to have been there for the whole ride.. my favorite videogame genre and a NeverKnowsBest docu video, going to enjoy this one I'm sure. Favorite PC game of all time - Tes II Daggerfall, favorite game of all time period, Final Fantasy 2/4 with Rosa and Cecil.

[@wayatvideos2142]

Good choice brother

[@nonexistent4177]

I have a special place in my heart for Daggerfall, seeing as it was my first true RPG on a PC at the time. Before that was just playing Wizardry 7 on old school computers. But I think Morrowind is still my fave by a narrow margin. Daggerfall on the other hand is just so huge, I never beat it, yet I can still go and play it and feel enthralled. One day, I might even make it to the ending. XD

[@cloudbloom]

I'm 40 years old so I was fortunate enough to have been around most of the history of these games as well, this video was a huge nostalgia trip for me. Btw great choice of games, Daggerfall blew my mind when it came out and so did the early FF games

[@jw6588]

I wonder who here in this thread isn't in their early 40's. For me, I've always loved the Gold Box games. Curse of the Azure Bonds might be my favorite old-school game. But to be honest, the Witcher 3 is probably my favorite game of all time now.

[@ravenheartwraith]

@@jw6588 witcher 3 is probably the best rpg of the last 15 years for me. CDPR made their magum opus, I enjoyed the first two games as well. I however dislike modern rpgs with their "oh look another map icon to do some activity" every 10 feet... it ruins games in so many ways for me, and is one of the things I disliked about witcher 3.

[@dracomusty]

This video is incredible, can't wait to see what you make next!

[@Stereozentrum]

Fantastic production! Huge thank you for making these videos :)

[@rpgcinema7916]

I wasn't going to watch the whole video but decided to stay awhile and listen

[@IndicIndieGameDev]

Wow, can't imagine the amount of research and effort put into it. Should be included as course material for any game design course!

[@flonkplonk1649]

Yes that's true and highly appreciated! The only thing that's off is that he didn't mention Rogue Trader (from Owlcat Games) at the end.. it stands out, not only because it's the first WH40k RPG , complex and very faithful to the lore but also because of the combat and nested skill system..

[@alexandreinforzato4810]

47 year old gamer here. Played many of these games when they were released, but not the very early stuff as I'm from Brazil and a lot of these 'ancient' RPGs never made it here to begin with (I only got my first PC, an AT-286, in the early 90s, and by then I was playing Lucas Games point-and-click adventures, such as Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, or the really hard (for me, at the time) rpgs where you had to input text commands, such as Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards. It's hard to put into words how amazing these experiences were at the time, considering not only the novelty of these games but the novelty of the technology that made them possible (I was filled with awe when I moved from playing Prince of Persia on a monochromatic ochre monitor to a VGA screen; we take these things for granted now, but back then was a time of major strides). Great work with the video btw, much nostalgia.

[@the_Googie]

I might be one of few with this one, but I really love the almost abstract art style of the earliest RPG's and Roguelikes. ASCII graphics, simple pixel sprites, not even elaborate pixelart, just very simple, very minimalistic design, but a lot of mathematical depth to the game mechanics. I can spend much more time in games like Caves of Qud than for example, Skyrim.

[@oxfordjon]

Well that’s the rest of my evening sorted

[@NiamorH]

I noticed you didn't mention any episodes from the Mana series. Growing up in Europe in the 80's and 90's, games like Mystic Quest for GameBoy and Secret of Mana were pivotal for me and many others of my generation. Almost all previous RPGs for console didn't see a release in Europe so the Mana series was our first introduction to the RPG genre and played a significant role in shaping our gaming experiences.

[@thenanoterrium7495]

This is what attracted me to your forum. I too have played nearly every RPG known to man. Some met with joy, others with tears when they left us to the great beyond. Thank you for this. Liked, Loved, Subbeed, and Patroned

[@WaltuhBlackjr]

Hello there I read your comment what are some underrated rpg games, such as a crazy good story for the time or just a really unique game?

[@kennethruskin2710]

It's stated that Larian's Divinity: Original Sin was an original IP and not based on a 'CRPG of old', but Larian had been at trying to revive the Ultima spirit since their first game, Divine Divinity, which was fairly old by video game standards by the release of D:OS in 2014, having been more than a decade since 2002. Maybe it will get mentioned later on in an BG3 segment, but Larian just like FromSoft had been making the same game over and over in different iterations and dressings in the same style for a long time before they got success. Dark Souls didn't spring up from nowhere, and Demon's Souls didn't either, which was a far more important game in terms of innovation and becoming a cult hit. FromSoft started out with King's Field and what they started building in 1994 would eventually lead directly to Elden Ring. Perhaps it seems like nitpicking, but having watched the video up until now and having Larian come out of nowhere really doesn't provide enough of a context for their rise, they were there in the console slump too and made an action RPG with a third-person over the shoulder view like everyone else, but with their unique style.

[@thomasffrench3639]

Yeah and FromSoftware seemed to be firmly in the Japanese camp as far as influences. King’s Field was definitely influenced by other games of the time even if it was significantly different. But they have been on their own trajectory ever since. People act like it is a western RPG, but I have not seen any indication of western influence aside from Wizardry, who’s roots were completely abandoned by western RPGs by 2000.

[@Voreniusqt]

That was both mentioned and shown in the video :) Some where in the 90's segment after Diablo was discussed, he mentions Larian and shows gameplay from their first game.

[@MrPeterref]

So just like he said in the video... xD

[@NihongoWakannai]

@@thomasffrench3639 Souls was also clearly inspired by monster hunter with its slow intentional combat, stamina based fighting and big monster fights. It's like a mix between monster hunter and kings field.

[@DavidCDrake]

Nice to see _Dungeons & Desktops_ get a shout-out at 10:05. An excellent book on this subject!

[@juanrodriguez9971]

I used to hate the category of "RPG" because whenever i looked up for RPGs what i wanted was turn-based combat but instead found a diverse amount of genres under the same category, it wasnt until recently that i finally understood what makes an rpg an rpg, still not into them only into the turn based combat and linear stories, but now i can aporeciate what peoplenwere doing back then and now.

[@orionspur]

I think Adventure, released in 1980 for the Atari 2600 console, is worth mentioning as a simple but influential mini-RPG. In particular for its: 1) Impressive randomization, forcing you to explore the world. 2) Convincing and pervasive sense of dread. 3) Now legendary undocumented Easter Egg sidequest for the magic "dot".

[@sallysaysyes]

The themes (especially the town theme) from Ultima coming up brought the nostalgia tears. Ultima IV is still one of my all time favourite games. Great video!

[@CompleteAnimation]

Baldur's Gate 3 is currently the crowning achievement in the genre. And the best part is, it is now modern enough in its design sensibilities, that it will be just as approachable and playable by a modern audience in 20 years as it was today. Which is something that cannot be said for the previous Baldur's Gate games.

[@animonarch3858]

Well, when you mention dragon quest and toriyama I just have to say rest in piece toriyama

[@VGCbolt]

This was seriously such a joy to watch! And this is my first video of yours I've seen! Definitely subscribing :)

[@biggreen1456]

BG3 was an amazing slap in the face of the industry that not only can RPGs still be successful but that people are in high demand for them. It's bewildering how little the heads of major publishing companies actually understand that these types of games never went out of demand

[@legitplayin6977]

It was just a sign that even crpg’s can be popular if you make it the most high budget and most generic one ever. Notice how no one spoke about Rogue trader when it came out

[@bake-io1cf]

it just means that RPGs now are only about LGBT romancing options and fujobait , nothing else .

[@legitplayin6977]

@@bake-io1cf I swear to god, I don’t like bg3 but if it puts me in the same camp as you people, I’ll become the game’s biggest fanboy.

[@vigilantrebelgaming2317]

It's not that they think the genre went out of demand, but that these games traditionally are incompatable with the modern monetization models they wish to slap into them for unwarranted profit.

[@Joijoi69]

@@bake-io1cf God, I hope you are right. The Fujo era of gaming is long overdue.

[@SergeyNeskhodovskiy]

This is the first online video of 2h+ that I've watched start to end without wanting to be distracted. So many warm feelings after watching it, and that's not even nostalgia, although I was born in the 80's. Witnessing today all these power AAA titles with III's and IV's and XVI's in their names, which get ravished by the public and are proclaimed "legendary series" by bloggers immediately after their announcement, I always felt having missed their actual I's and II's that made them legendary in the first place, due to limited access to PC and lack of time in that earlier period of my life. This feeling surprisingly vanished after I watched this, and even though it does not replace the actual experience of playing a single game, but just by being so detailed and sequential, this RPG mosaic gave me some inexplicable familiarity with the predecessors to all important modern games that I was lacking. Thank you so much for this!

[@misterkefir]

A definite comeback to your old form. Glad to see. Great video.

[@acousticscarab]

So glad to see Betrayal at Krondor got some much deserved love in this video. I still play that game. Thanks for a great video! Also would love to see a similar video on point and click adventures.

[@coreydubia2881]

First off, love the vid. Incredible work! Just curious why you didn’t mention Elden Ring in the modern era section. Def not a traditional RPG being a Soulslike, but definitely a high point, both in critical reception and sales, that brought a lot of players into the more broad RPG genre. Again, not a criticism. Just curious. Amazing video. Thank you for your time and effort to make!!

[@amampathak]

I think the video made concession on many post 2020s games, Cyberpunk was briefly mentioned but Phantom liberty and subsequential 2.0 update and all it did for the genre wasn't mentioned either. Elden Ring is still to this date my favorite "Soulslike" RPG, and deserved a big mention as well.

[@rb98769]

The 2020s as a decade is still hard to define, so he didn't list a lot of games there. In many ways a lot of games that released this decade are still within the 2010s paradigm.

[@HollowKnight21]

@@rb98769 Nah It was a huge miss IMO. 2020s RPG discussion will never be complete without discussing Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate 3 AND Elden Ring. But then it wouldn't fit his narrative of: "2020s gaming now sucks except for the sole beacon of light Baldur's Gate 3." Elden Ring was an even bigger cultural phenomenon on release than Baldur's Gate 3 at its very peak, was just a critically acclaimed and truly pushed the souls-like genre to a much larger, more casual audience despite its difficulty and old-school design. Its success is worthy of analysis in any RPG discussion as it challenges conceptions of what modern gaming consumers are willing to accept. A difficult, hypercombat focused game that does not focus on narrative and cinematic experiences was not supposed to be as successful as it was.

[@seanedwards2857]

Keep doing what you're doing bro. Your content is an absolute pleasure to watch. Thank you.

[@sawyerstudio]

You're the best, NKB. Truly a great historian of this medium.

[@joecantina7580]

What a phenomenal video. I recently got into BG3 and it was been one of the best gaming experiences of my life. This video was so well put together and when you got to the end, I got goosebumps. I appreciate your efforts, you make amazing videos!

[@kirbeeez6131]

Am I crazy or was chrono trigger not mentioned?

[@ArilandoArilando]

The video is obviously focused on western RPGs. The title is a bit misleading.

[@kirbeeez6131]

@@ArilandoArilandothat’s not true there’s a whole section on JRPGs, and he mentioned many many JRPGs. He brought up multiple final fantasy’s and dragon quests in the 80s and 90s section lol, just kinda strange to not see chrono trigger tossed in there. It’s as revelant as FF7 imo

[@maynardburger]

@@kirbeeez6131 There's not a 'whole' section on JRPG's. It's a little brief interlude to say, "Oh yea, JRPG's exist, but....we're never gonna mention them again". Stop trying to downplay how incredibly misleading the title of this video is. It's 'Complete history of western RPG's' and that's it.

[@toopoorandobscure3865]

@@maynardburger Chill out...... No need to reply to every comment. People on the internet get so mad over the littlest things.

[@marlorose]

It deserves a mention yes but as relevant as ff7 nah. Earthbound wasn't included either.

[@AVerySillySausage]

Ok who wants to take a bet on how many quality essays we get from this channel before we get the fucking witcher 3 video.

[@ProfMarkQ]

What Witcher 3 video?

[@NoobFromRomania]

From J.A.

[@drovethedrill711]

lol ill bet at least 10

[@Xarviz01]

From another prominant video essayist Joseph Anderson, I think his fanbase has been waiting for it for about two years now (me included!) ​@@ProfMarkQ

[@SiddarthaTB]

@@Xarviz01yea but why is neverknows involved

[@HerrSaturn]

Sir, I love your videos! So much dedication toward them .. follow you for you years. Really appreciate your work. Keep on Keeping on!

[@martinrosendahl9134]

I really like your extensive videos. High quality all the way... subscribed

[@thomasffrench3639]

Honestly, I think that the Dragon Slayer series should have got more mention for how it basically created the action RPG genre. And while I understand why you separate JRPGs just for the fact that it went in a different evolution, and it’s probably for the best due to how it is arguably more prolific than their western counterparts, it does seem like a strange choice to ignore an entire aspect of RPGs in a video called “history of RPGs”

[@johnnyw4life]

I 100% agree with this. JRPGs are so massively influential globally that to title this “The Entire History of RPGs” is extremely misleading and disappointing. Dare I say click-baity. The video is fantastic, and yes I did watch all 160+ minutes, but I was really expecting to see Square mentioned at least once. I rewatched that entire section from 49:15 and Square is not even mentioned by name at all. 😔 Just their influence on video game music alone would deserve a video of this length. I want to stress again, this is a fantastic video, but it has a disappointingly misleading title.

[@thomasffrench3639]

@@johnnyw4life I agree that the title is the problem I actually think that the video is better for ignoring JRPGs (which should have happened with Dark Souls btw) because it makes it more focused, but you can't just title the video "entire"

[@hepwo91222]

yeah, this should really be called the History of CRPG's, mostly just mentions console JRPG's in passing and ignores some serious innovations in RPG's. Also many popular JRPG's are way more influential than their CRPG counterparts.

[@thomasffrench3639]

@@hepwo91222 I agree, although, I cannot think of JRPGs that influenced CRPGs, except for Final Fantasy VII making console RPGs viable in the west with stuff like KOTOR probably not being greenlighted without the popularity of FFVII, but that's really it. Also the biggest issue was ignoring the impact of Castlevania Symphony of the Night, which was an action RPG which kinda changed the industry in so many ways, such as showing the viability of 2D games, as it helped influence handheld games evolve 2D game design, and made RPG elements good for use in other genres. I mean he mentions Action RPGs being influenced by Zelda. It is honestly quite disappointing

[@bake-io1cf]

In Japan dungeon classic crawlers are still a thing. Wizardry died in the west and now a japanese company owns the right and makes japan exclusives. Rpgs are bigger there than in the west