The Obsession with Bad Games

[@catriona_drummond]

The story behind Gollum is a little more complicated. It was a marketing vehicle for the two people running aedelic who bought the studio for 410k € in 2020 and sold it in 2022 to a French publisher for 53 Million € because they had a "big Lord of the rings project" in the works. Hell of a cash grab. Behind the scenes there was crunch, a toxic work culture and all kinds of skullduggery. Gollum as a game had no chance to ever be good if you pull away the curtain from it's development. The studio also never built itself up slowly like Larian, it leapfrogged from solid 2D adventure games to this big 3D sort of AAA project while actually being downsized from 150 to 90 people.

[@GG-ou7it]

@@SpitFir3Tornadothese monkeys will forget shit like cyberpunk when it gets some patches to make it stable and have the gall to make a paid dlc 😂

[@adoggred]

The main defense I throw into the trash would be the original pricing. On console they charged $60, if they want to charge AAA prices people expect AAA quality. I would be more willing to be lenient if they downed their price to something more reasonable for their studio size but they did not. They deserved all of the flak they got in my opinion.

[@Bollibompa]

​@@SpitFir3Tornado What apologism?

[@SpitFir3Tornado]

@@Bollibompa I'll just assume you didn't watch the video then?

[@Ellimist000]

Yea that seems right to me. Larian and project red were independent in a way daedelic clearly wasn't

[@thecampion2420]

I think the price that a game dev's failures cost the consumer is a big factor. People might have only disliked Gollum if it cost $15 or $20 but the anger goes up with the price tag.

[@SL4PSH0CK]

true a large factor!

[@sandmaneyes]

As game dev costs get more bloated this will only continue

[@SoaringMoon]

@@sandmaneyes But Gollum didn't have high game dev costs. It had a budget of 10% what other games of its price tag normally have.

[@Kesukyou]

Mmm I'm not sure. While it's true it's an horrible marketing choice, it's not like No Man Sky: how many people actually pre-ordered this game? To better say so, how many people actually bought this game and played more than two hours without asking for a refund? Hate on this game came without people actually playing it, it came quite exclusively from content creators

[@Chinothebad]

And to add to that, didn't they offer something like a in-game lorebook that gives you basic setting info as DLC of all things?

[@InoriDoki]

The section about the narrative of Gollum was really touching. I’ve watched several videos on the game, but yours was the first to take time to highlight the narrative’s potential. Phenomenal work! The empathetic reflectivity of your scripts really gives your content a unique voice 😊

[@Mementomori292]

If you knew that there was a rose buried under a pile of shit, and to get it you had to pay 50 bucks and dig through the pile for hours, will you honestly do it? The reason why this game is a shame is because it fails on literally every front except for maybe the soundtrack. It was 2023 and the game looked worse than some ps2 games and played worse than some PS 1 games.

[@katiekaliber]

@@Mementomori292 They never said the game was good or worth the money, they just said they found that part of the video interesting and that the narrative had potential, which literally means it didn't reach that potential. Did you go off on the wrong comment? The reaction does not seem to correlate with the original post.

[@robzs8388]

literally did you watch the video? He very, VERY, clearly stated that it was not at all worth buying. @@Mementomori292

[@rupturedinpurulence4]

​@@Mementomori292 That's not what he said though? I know you didn't watch the part of the video where he says the bad clearly outweighs the potential but you could have at least read the comment that you're replying to

[@DGX_Omega_Primo]

Search for "A Narrative Investigation of Gollum" from "Duke of Whales", which he talks of every point and tries to point where is the good, the bad and the potential in it. It's a great video!

[@Vantaz]

I think a part of why "Top 10 worst games of X" lists are more popular than their positive counterpart is as you mentioned that there simply aren't ever that many competitors for best game every year, and hearing someone rattle off a list of 10 obvious picks like Baldur's Gate 3 and Spider man 2 just isn't that interesting while every worst game list is going to contain something weird you've never heard of before.

[@leviticusprime4904]

So strong to me how kong got any attention becuase honestly it was a shovelware game, that didn’t deserve or need any of the attention it got.

[@theobell2002]

Negativity rules the internet.

[@BlackxEmpeureur]

Simple: negativity bias

[@KucheKlizma]

​@@BlackxEmpeureur I am worried for your wellbeing. Who the fuck still watches top/bottom SEO optiomized clickbait garbage nowadays? Iron pineapple gets millions of views just reviewing a random list of soulslikes. Negativity bias is a thing, but it's naive to assume it's the only dirivng force for people not liking SEO optimized regurgitated dehumanizing ads and it does not explain why people making constructive content are getting millions of views.

[@JohnDiGrizUkraine]

I think I somewhat disagree. While yes, best 10 lists are more often than not the same ten games in a slightly different order, so are the worst 10 lists And not just this year, the worst of all time and such lists are also basically the exact same, and more often than not the list creator played few or none of the games they list, so it's just regurgitation popular consensus

[@kx7500]

Crazy how many KZbinrs just release well edited hour plus long videos like this and people consider it normal. Well done

[@ekki1993]

"Players are often right about the problems and rarely right about the solutions." It's a game design mantra I read somewhere while learning game design (though it could come from other media, since it does apply to all user-developer interaction). I think it's relevant to this video because it highlights that most gamers, being players, will be better at catching bad design than good design. It's the easiest way to appear to know what you're talking about, really.

[@yungskeleton-wotvffbe8939]

It's a quote from Mark Rosewater, a designer from Magic: The Gathering.

[@adlibbed2138]

just don't suck and everything will be fine ~TotalBiscuit

[@OurSpaceshipEarth]

As they say "difficulty is well, dif^H^Hard!" :D

[@StrykerMagnum]

Good music and sound design is much the same, if done well, it will seamlessly engage the viewer in the moment with them not conscious of the music's quality or role

[@hamdepaf6686]

As a German I implore all of you guys reading this to try some of Daedalics point and click adventures. Because those are some of the most beautiful games I have ever played. (also they are all like pretty fairly priced on steam and are actually on a massive sale 90% right now) And while the ultimate downfall of the development studio of Daedalic may be a good thing, considering all the things that went wrong behind the scenes. I cannot help but morn the loss of a developer that made such incredible games and am saddened that they will probably only be remembered by what brought them down and not by what came before.

[@hamdepaf6686]

@@Dwarfplayer Hmm ok, so my personal favorite (but probably because it holds a lot of nostalgia for me) is "The Night of the Rabbit", I absolutely adore it's visuals and music. Daedalic started out with the "Edna and Harvey: The Breakout" game, so that is also a consideration. The whole Deponia series has on point humor and is all around just fun to play, so you could start with the first part of that. And besides that I think Daedalics biggest an most visually stunning game is "Silence", but that is a sequel to "the Wispered World", both very good games, more on the melancholic side of things.

[@GreyManFaustus]

@@Dwarfplayer Just get Deponia: The Complete Journey. Part 1 is a tad slow at times, but it's a nice buildup to an absolute ride.

[@vinny-g6s]

They really punched above their weight by trying to make a 3D platformer. I bet if Gollum was just a simple point and click 2D game it would have been a success, specially because this is a very story-oriented type of game and that genre is one of the best for telling stories.

[@gamegnome]

Completely agree about their point and click pedigree. I would like to recommend Ken Follet's The Pillars Of The Earth.

[@nightwf1386]

True. Edna and Deponia are gems

[@zangbang9886]

My man you DID NOT just make me shed a tear for the The Lord of the Rings: Gollum (2023) videogame ending!!!

[@zangbang9886]

@@verminjerky "one of the most masterful game endings in history" yeah alright pal lets not get carried away now, you're kinda falling in the exact same hyperbole trap that the video criticizes, where something is either absolute garbage or the best thing ever. Its a 7/10 ending with a great emotional punch.

[@puupää]

Yeah... went and bought the game for ps5 after seeing this video. Never though I would spend a dime on this game before.

[@MasterIceyy]

@@zangbang9886 Whilst it is an over exaggeration, if you know LotR lore and how Tolkien wrote the story of Gollum and what he was meant to represent, it's extremely touching and a great bit of writing by whoever was in charge, and also shows a very deep understanding of Tolkien's world

[@JewTube001]

its so sad with the nice birdy i cried 🐦

[@verminjerky]

@@zangbang9886 Jesus Christ, you didn't have to be a dick about it. God.

[@jakubolex1026]

29:52 "How can you fuck up Pong??" - me, out loud, alone in my kichen, making pancakes

[@michaelbates6474]

LMAO! Nice!

[@nintony2994]

Bacon pancakes Making Bacon Pancakes Take some bacon and I put it in a pancake Bacon Pancakes That's what it's gonna make Bacon Pancake!

[@stephanieroberts4837]

Similarly to how The Lord of the Rings itself makes you feel pity for Gollum despite his failings, your video made me feel pity (and even a little admiration) for the Gollum video game!

[@schnarfschnarf5886]

Lol I kinda wanted to say the same thing... I think we are softys dude.

[@pokeman123451]

yeah I felt compelled enough to google if the other ending for Little One was possible. Not compelled enough to play the game though lol

[@benl2140]

"It's a pity that Daedelic didn't cancel Gollum when they had the chance." "Pity? It's a pity that stayed Daedelic's hand. Many released games deserve to have been cancelled. Some cancelled games deserve to be released. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out cancellation in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Daedelic may rule the fate of many."

[@hirocheeto7795]

@@fudgepacker2858 I don't know where anyone implied they spent any actual time on the game, let alone hours.

[@tomjack1000000]

I didn't know the developers that made Gollum were also responsible for Deponia, sort of heartbreaking honestly.

[@Nitidus]

Oh yeah. Daedelic had some incredible talent. But it was limited to the point & click adventure genre. But when Poki left in 2020, those times were over with no chance of going back. The saddest thing is that according to Gronkh, a content creator who is a friend of Poki and even featured in several Daedelic games as a voice actor, some time after Deponia Doomsday released in 2016, they """might""" have been working on another 2D adventure game that got scrapped instead. If true, that's a fucking shame. To me, Deponia is more fun than even Monkey Island.

[@antonyloc]

👍

[@stroblaizer]

Your sympathy + the story of Gollum genuinely made me feel something. Good work mate

[@phftheebonidiot637]

That neck snap was rough and way more than I expected from the title. Because of course Ive never played it either.

[@ida6950]

Daedalic wasn’t that niche, they were pretty big in Germany. The whole Gollum thing and what happened to the company just hurts tbh :( I feel for the developers. Their point and click adventures were genuinely amazing and some of my favourite games of all time.

[@minartson]

Pretty big in Germany is still niche around the World.

[@triplehelix3207]

I liked some of their point and clicks, its a great return for me to a niche childhood genre

[@EternalVids]

I didn't even realize they were the same guys that made Deponia series. Shame they didn't continue working on more point-and-click adventure games. That's a niche that's seriously lacking these days.

[@Katy133]

Same! Daedalic is a studio I've followed for years, and I think Gollum was simply too different from what they were used to making (2D, point and clicks, narrative-driven, minimalist controls). I felt sad hearing the news that they plan on only publishing games (rather than developing them) from now on.

[@svipulvalke9913]

Yeah I was surprised to hear the game was coming from Daedalic, being familiar with their point and clicks, and when it failed so hard it was more upsetting to me than anything else. A team very experienced with one type of game taking a turn like that, and I heard the devs were treated like crap behind the scenes too.

[@greensimpson3209]

"The bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so." Anton Ego Great video, as always

[@ambskater97]

Punctuation errors aside, agreed.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

I'm going to paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt here and say glory goes to the man in the arena. Often times what critics like, and what the audience likes aren't the same. Sometimes these two things can be so wildly off from each other that one has to wonder just what critics (or even the audience) were thinking. Perhaps the most recent example I can think of was the very.....charged opinions over The Last of Us 2. Critics loved the game, and dropped endless praise upon it. The audience by and large were not as enthusiastic about it. Arguably, i could even argue that companies listening to critics over their customers can be detrimental to the end product then if they'd simply not done so at all. Take for example the Earth Defense Force series of games. Critics often maligned them for being repetitive, with often lower quality graphics of comparable games of a similar generation, and featuring ridiculous plots and nonsensical characters. Whenever an EDF game gets released to address these issues, they're much worse to the mainline series because what appealed to the critics isn't what made the games unique. It makes one question if critics really know anything, if they couldn't see why the games were so successful in spite of these "problems". The short version is that critics may spend time critiquing the work of others, but ruthless deconstruction isn't helpful if the goal is destruction.

[@jerrodshack7610]

​@@mrbigglezworth42This really isn't true about The Last of Us 2. It had a very vocal group of people who loudly hated it, but the game was incredibly successful and is well loved by most who played it. I'm definitely not going to claim all its hate was political, but it also has an ardent group of haters that are just mad it has a lesbian couple and a muscular woman and a trans kid. Around launch it was hard to even find good-faith criticism that wasn't just Gamers™ losing their shit over politics.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@jerrodshack7610 Not true, much of the controversy around TLoU2 began long before the game released when the story for the game was leaked revealing Joel’s rather unceremonious death. When those leaks turned out to be true only cemented the core issues people had with Druckman and the game as a whole. IE killing a beloved character in Joel and assassinating the character of another in Ellie. All in favor of Abby who hardly anyone liked, and liked even less after the game released proper. The whole homophobia and tranny bit was deflection, stirred up no less by journalists and reviewers, to hide the fact that people did not in fact like the way the game was heading. Hell, I’d argue the game was far less successful then we were told and after the incredibly divisive entry that part 2 was, it’s unlikely that it will be again. So no, it wasn’t because of divisive politics that people didn’t like the game. It was idiotic story choices spearheaded by one man that made it divisive.

[@tartantulakid666]

​@@jerrodshack7610strong female characters are poorly designed. Strong female characters are literally masculinsed women. I roll my eyes when devs think that the average woman stands a remote chance in hand to hand combat with a man. Animated Mulan is a strong female character. Butch lesbians with plot armour are not.

[@mechanicalmonk2020]

The fact that so many people don't understand that most devs don't set out to make a bad game... that bad games are the result of failure rather than intent ... is honestly terrifying

[@000Gua000]

50:00 There's a flaw in this screen. For majority of singleplayer games huge chunk of sales happens in first months since release. User reviews were introduced to Steam in November 2013. So those first months of sales for Gone Home are not represented in steam reviews. A good rule of thumb is not to relay on number of user reviews for games released on steam before 2014 when trying to estimate game success/sales. P.S. Thanks for a great video!

[@plebisMaximus]

It's kind of funny how the concept for the AVGN, as described by James himself, was "Wouldn't it be funny if someone cared this much about crusty old games?", and now everyone seems to care this much about crusty video games. I love longform analysis as much as anyone, but the bash fest of anything that's even just less than expected is really getting old. Although sometimes it is warranted and needed, like in the case of Redfall. It's a fine balance of not being too critical of everything and being critical of someone who can do better, but is pressured by shareholders or publishers to make an inferior product.

[@subarchives5275]

1q

[@Plain--Jane]

redfall kinda got railed against VERY disproportionately, that's a very strange example to use

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@Plain--Janeexplain I’m truly interested

[@Chinothebad]

With bash fest getting really old, it didn't help that both back then and now that one can see the whole "angry reviewer" shtick getting old. There's only so many laughs one could try to milk from shouting vulgarities before it ends up being unfunny. And there were already a number of unfunny AVGN knock-offs back then. Games like Redfall getting reamed is no doubt warranted and in Redfall's case, it goes in much further when considering how you have a modern title from a developer that has made a number of good games previously such as the Dishonored games and Prey.

[@plebisMaximus]

@@Plain--Jane Didn't know that, don't follow discourse much anymore due to the aforementioned bashfest every time something less than perfect is released. I used it more as an example because of what it is, a game far outside the expertise of the studio making it that seems to have been made entirely so the publisher, Microsoft could rack up more Gamepass subscriptions.

[@purplehaze2358]

"Unlike, say, criticizing a person, bad games won't ever respond to you; meaning you can say whatever you like." No, but fans of the games most certainly will, and if you get especially unlucky, their developers will too.

[@joesizzle10]

i think the point being made here is that there aren't any fans to defend Big Rigs or Gollum, no matter how poorly you talk about them, everyone agrees they're bad

[@attton]

What a line given NKB newest video...

[@IllusionistsBane]

And if the bad game turns out to be someone's first published project, the gaming audience risks creating another Jim Theis situation.

[@JoshForeman]

What a beautiful essay. Thanks for this. I've worked on some great games and some not so great throughout my career, and one thing I've learned is that the bad ones end up that way for so many different reasons that it's nonsensical for anyone outside of the team/studio/company to pretend they know what's to blame. Even for other devs, there are just SO many landmines on the road to greatness.

[@chickennugget6654]

I've actually been thinking about this for a while, more particularly what makes a good game good? Like why is it that essentially every game from a developer like rockstar, or naughty dog, or nintendo or so on is pretty much always "good"? are their developers simply more skilled? Do they just have better people in charge? Because i refuse to believe that every single developer at a studio like rockstar is more talented than every single developer at say EA, i also refuse to believe that certain companies just "care more", no complany wants to make a bad game because that means they dont make as much money. i dont know, i dont work in the games industry and probably never will, but all of these behind the scenes factors interest me so much. maybe it really is that some companies are managed better, and some developers care more.

[@JoshForeman]

@@chickennugget6654 Yeah, that's a great point. If good games were only the result of blind luck then you wouldn't have consistently good track records from some places and not others. Although I will quibble with you about "pretty much always "good"". I'd say Nintendo and Rockstar have a better-than-average track record for sure. But your point stands. I've worked at 9 or 10 studios over 28 years and I've seen so many projects crash and burn, get canceled, or practically destroy the team to get them out the door in a quality state. I've also seen really well run, healthy teams that end up with a great game (Descent 3) and a mediocre one (Alter Echo). One of the best games I worked on (Ori and the Will Of The Wisps) came out of a practically dysfunctional team with horrible leadership. (There was an article about that last year) I've been on small inexperienced teams, (Diablo Hellfire) huge veteran-packed teams (Guild Wars 1 & 2), and everything in-between. I honestly can't tell you what part of that chemistry resulted in good vs bad games because every configuration I've been in has produced both. I guess I will say that the landmines I mentioned that can wreck a game CAN often be spotted by experienced developers and navigated around by good leadership. And even if the good leadership has left, often the production pipelines that were developed remain in the DNA of the studio, so that may explain why some places end up with a better track record than others.

[@Dext3rM0rg4n]

Not a game dev but I've been a part of many long project for work, and when it's going terrible it's usually really hard to tell who or what is responsible, even if you've been a part of the project from the beggining. If some outsider announced he knew exactly what the problem was with the extreme confidence you see in those YT video it would make my blood boil lmao

[@JoshForeman]

@@Dext3rM0rg4n Yes. This. But I do wanna say, that's also when an outside perspective can be useful, but mostly after they have been brought in and thoroughly educated on the team and process.

[@coco_rthritis6462]

The name "GameMill Entertainment" should tell you everything you need to know about their games 😂

[@kaelananderson9237]

Lol, this stood out to me immediately... putting themselves in the "esteemed" company of diploma mills, puppy mills, and pill mills. It's so on the nose as to almost seem intentional

[@SL4PSH0CK]

unironically yea

[@egontokessy1610]

You've articulated an issue I have with gaming culture that I had trouble putting my finger on for awhile. It's nice to hear something positive. I love video games, even the bad ones in my own weird way. I found there are cool concepts in bad games and dislike the emotional outrage gamers have towards bad games. I also find I like more games considered to be bad more than the average person. I really want to play forspoken and starfield.

[@KasumiRINA]

I don't think either Starfield or Forspoken are bad. They're more like, meh games people had unreal expectations for.

[@drek9k2]

Rockay City literally proves the rule that ANY game that has a ton of Hollywood celebrity involvement is going to be total trash. I theorize a big part of this is because the game company just wants to bask in the limelight and thinks starpower can sell games, without themselves having any real talent or passion, often tinged with narcissism. Mass Effect 2 included, that was one of the worst games I ever played. The sole exception was Cyberpunk 2077, that itself helps prove the rule by what an absolute disastrous release that was (although, perhaps ironically, more of its problems was due to fucking nVidia rushing them to finish and release it in time for their shitty RTX 30 series with the bad vram, bugs, driver issues, and flaming 3090s, because nVidia's execs literally had banked on selling the entire fucking GPU line with that game so that's why we got the abortion that was CP2077 release). Near all the great games had minimal or no celebrity involvement. Master of Orion 4 was another great example. Anything that tries and sells itself by celebrity voice acting is basically guaranteed to be a pile of shit. It's hilariously like a continuation of the "licensed games=shit" rule.

[@anitacrumbly]

I also dislike the emotional outrage the gaming community has for good games. If the game is good people are still mad that something isn't the way they imagined it or the way they wanted it etc. It's like give the devs a break.

[@egontokessy1610]

@@drek9k2 I get where you're coming from. It can be a bit obnoxious with Hollywood celebrities. It's a bit hit or miss. Some games work out with Norman Redus and Keanu Reeves with Death Stranding and Cyberpunk 2077. I think those games are good despite the celebrity involvement. Then you get games like that Will Smith zombie game where they just marketed the crap out of the game with Will Smith, and he's barely in the game and when he is, he's missing voice lines. Seeing a lot of Hollywood celebrity involvement in a game is definitely a red flag for me. I'm really glad Cyberpunk 2077 got second life through the fixes and anime.

[@egontokessy1610]

@@anitacrumbly Can you give me an example? I believe you because I've seen gamer's act like that too where they hyper focus on something that really isn't a big deal in general. Culture war stuff comes to mind when people hyperfocus on a female protagonist that either is disliked for looking too masculine in design or a female character looks too sexually objectified because they wear sexy clothes. Like that dumb controversy over one of my favourite games, Stellar Blade.

[@avalon5957]

It's a HUGE shame Daedalic closed because of Gollum. The studio has made *SO* many great indie games; The Deponia series, The Whispered World, The Night of the Rabbit, Ken Follet's The Pillars of the Earth, Anna's Quest, The Dark Eye, The Edna & Harvey games, and others, many of which, several huge KZbinrs have made Let's plays of and given great reviews. It's incredibly unfair that having *one* game flop was enough to shut down this otherwise very loved studio.

[@jackhazardous4008]

Those are all point and click games... What is an P&C Adventure game company doing making 3d action RPGs

[@Speckmantelmade]

Unfortunately, Daedelic as an employer was incredibly bad. They did Poki really dirty and since he was the creative genius behind Deponia and the Edna/Harvey games, they drove away their very best "workhorse". He's doing fine with his band. There's a fairly recent video/podcast (I think both) about how bad Daedelic was run as a studio. I don't feel bad they closed. I feel bad for the people there doing their best who lost their jobs because of the asshole CEOs.

[@seliador]

Daedalic wouldn't have been able to make more of those games anyway, as the devs/designers of those game had left Daedalic a while ago.

[@derangedberger]

The cost plays a part, though. Daedalic was never a big studio, and even though their previous games were good, they were small pseudo-indie titles generally made for a niche genre. Gollum had a budget of at least 15 million. A failure like that may be able to be eaten by someone like EA, but a team like daedalic isn't big enough to.

[@avalon5957]

I see. I wasn't aware that the company had such bad problems. But I hope the people who made the gems will get to work in better conditions elsewhere or make their own. I loved a lot of the stuff they've made, and I'm sure they'd be successful

[@venepskeuten9206]

oh wow you actually made me feel sad about gollum. Its just a cute little bird being friends with a cute, malformed, mentally scarred little hobbit and now he betrays him. Kind of shame that the game's potential was not met, because i think the ending would have left a mark on those who played it. Thanks for giving me a perspective i lacked. Always enjoy your more moderate view in the torrent of black/white perspectives.

[@AniGaAG]

Outside of people caring personally about a particular franchise, no one cares about "the medium", "that game", "the industry". All people want is either hype or outrage - euphoria or rage. People these days need a constant, never-ending feed of it, or they won't know what to do with themselves. And then they fight each other over which one is best and worst - more rage. That's why everything is either the game of the year or the worst thing ever. Anything in between can't satisfy people's addiction to hype, outrage, bandwagoning, arguing, fighting, raging, attacking, defending - Elden Ring needs to "ruin" every other game, Gollum needs to "be offensive", Starfield needs to "be a disaster", everything is required to be holy or unholy, so that it can be warred for or against. Realistically, no one should care too much about Gollum or Forspoken or whatever - just don't buy it, vote with your wallet, your rage doesn't actually do anything. But the rage is the point - people crave it.

[@s.tunafish]

I don't know why, but the Gollum section made me kinda sad. Really good video, thank you so much.

[@JewTube001]

🐦

[@teratoma.]

it made me emotional wtf

[@lilo5437]

Same 😕

[@aligmal5031]

yea sad for paying 50 $ for this sht

[@brynjarb2280]

Stupid idea from the get go. HEY LET'S MAKE A GAME ABOUT GOLLUM! no way you can make a good game out of that character

[@WhatsUpFella]

I love how even handed your videos are. There’s no sense you have this narrow theoretical framework you’re applying to everything you discuss. You explore these subjects as they are on their own terms. It’s so refreshing.

[@ashwinnmyburgh9364]

Precisely one of the reasons I love these videos as well. They are always thoroughly interesting, cleverly funny, and thought provoking as well.

[@AleksanderNevskij47]

You are so blind..., you should be happy!!

[@jebus9001]

Oh dude I know. I hate when essays make these ridiculous leaps of logic to make a point for one reason or another (bias or just plain desperation to make their point sound cogent)

[@RedWolfenstein]

Doesn't mean he's right

[@justarandompersoniguess]

@@RedWolfensteinhe doesn’t NEED to be right. Opinions aren’t always about right and wrong.

[@Greatdictator]

I know this is probably going to get lost but i would like to congratulate and thank you cause i always appreciate anyone that covers the medium with a very empathetic perspective, especially as someone with his own personal doubts about his work.

[@fractalsauce]

It's refreshing to know I'm not the only one with this mindset. Thank you for actually adding to the discussion of the video games industry without just regurgitating the same shlop as the rest of the media. Kudos

[@ryujithegoofydude2586]

I feel the same way

[@thomasohara5926]

It is very telling that, even though I've heard lots of people talk about Gollum, this is literally the first time I'm hearing about the ending.

[@MadDoodles]

The irony of some of these comments is delicious lol I appreciated this pretty even handed take. There’s more that could be said for sure, particularly the struggle between respecting developers as artists and respecting customers as, well, customers, but being able to see the good in something bad (and vice versa) is an important critical tool that frankly I think we all abandon at least sometimes. There’s a lot to be said for the damage that “engagement metrics” have done to social media and interaction as a whole. Funnily enough the other person I saw defending the studio if not the game was one of the OG “angry video game men”, Yahtzee. He too felt the sheer level of vitriol was unwarranted, especially when compared to other arguably worse AAA examples, and applauded the effort to aim higher. Even if they landed on their face.

[@cl0ud88]

I think the biggest point you missed, or maybe I just misunderstood you, is the emotional investment people have with IPs or companies. The outcy about games like Diablo 4 and Starfield wouldn't be so big if people were not expecting huge things and I think gollum is similar because of the LotR name. I may be absolutely wrong but in my opinion this factor is the biggest part of this whole negative media culture. After all, the opposite of love is apathy not hate.

[@slopedarmor]

Yeah huge expectations and deceptive marketing is the main reason for the starfield fallout. Still worth doing it like that for bethesda for the $.

[@SpecialInterestShow]

Oh absolutely. Starfield was so hyped up only to... Be that. And there was a lot of hype for LOTR games for sure, but... I think people feel a bit betrayes

[@MCharlesPainting]

This is true, though they are largely correct to feel this way. It's their job to make a great Lord of the Rings game. If they don't have enough talent, they should quit, or allow somebody to do a better job next time. If you make 3 terrible Lord of the Rings games in a row, or various companies do, then there's clearly a problem with game dev, not the players or their emotional investment. Star Wars is another example. Most Star Wars games have been bad, even if you're not a Star Wars fan. They tried too hard, used the wrong systems, didn't have the right tech, or simply lacked the overall talent for the game world and story and otherwise. Part of the problem is the expectations of the devs, not the players, along with other baggage the devs bring. They either try too hard to be faithful to the books or movies, or try too hard to be different, or try to focus it into some Disney framework, or try to warp it around loot box mechanics and horrible multiplayer mode. Most agree that the best Star Wars games are the older ones, though the ones from the 1980s and such have major issues. On the other hand, most modern ones are terrible and hated by most, other than Fallen Order and Survivor, though I don't see any evidence that they are actually any better than some of the other Star Wars games from the 2000s. It does depend on what you care about, though, and how you're judging it. Gollum is a poorly made game at many levels of analysis, even if you don't care about LOTR. I find it has nothing, or very little, to do with the IP.

[@SpecialInterestShow]

@@MCharlesPainting well, all of that and then they don't give their employees proper treatment and time to get everything done in a good way. Game crunch and everything

[@bigtrey25]

Better question, why am I obsessed with your videos ?

[@kylekirton2299]

They are brilliant after all :D

[@ordinarryalien]

Because YouAlwaysKnowBest?

[@gimirubin1236]

It's voice ..smooth,retrospective..relaxing sound of reason

[@LiteralmenteFadul]

Why am I obcessed with your eyes?

[@rosameltrozo5889]

Because of his sexy voice

[@vikareus1257]

It's often a fact that most people don't set out to make something bad on purpose, but nowadays, the social media landscape has a tendency to encourage people to have a "Judge first, ask questions later" mentality that can make them harass developers for reasons that were either trivial or outside of their control. This instinct to lash out at negativity with anger can lead into a vicious cycle where creators (or mostly publishers) become more risk-averse and stick to doing what they do best to a fault, leading to creative stagnation. I'm also reminded of the controversy surrounding Snoot Game/Goodbye Volcano High. I have mixed opinions about them. I'm wary of the former because it comes from 4chan and appears to be created out of spite, while the latter has writing and gameplay elements that fall short. I believe that it's important to be able to form your own opinion instead of relying entirely on what others have claimed, which can lead to even more exaggerated (mis)information.

[@ProfMarkQ]

Something to keep me busy while I'm sick and locked away in my Office at work. Will make the next hour breeze by, thank you. NeverKnowsBest you're up there in the Noah Caldwell Gervais caliber of video essayist for me, I'm sincerely happy you didn't give up making these videos.

[@sprink88]

faint praise indeed, my preciousss.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

who is the Gervais in there? I'm assuming it's not Ricky for a couple of reasons... the first of which is that I don't think he does video essays (?)

[@EliTheGleason]

@@idontwantahandlethough oh lol, Noah Caldwell Gervais is the full name of another game essayist

[@MentokTheMindTaker]

NCG is alright but not really as unique or thought provoking as NNB, plus his Dark Souls video was just annoying, he seems to absolutely despise the fanbase of the game, with a passion

[@ProfMarkQ]

@MentokTheMindTaker OH no, what did NCG say about the Dark Souls fans? Who, rightfully so, are borderline sanctimonious group of twats that don't shut the hell up about an overrated game series including Elden Ring?

[@extendedclubmix420]

I think why "Worst game of the year" videos are more popular than their "Best game" equivalents is because good games are enjoyable on their own. However bad games are awful to play (or not worth playing at all). And so discussing the game is more enjoyable than actually playing it.

[@i-am-the-slime]

BG3 Was extremely boring, so were the soulless TOTK and Mario Wonder. I really don't get what's wrong with me.

[@i-am-the-slime]

BG3 Was extremely boring, so were the soulless TOTK and Mario Wonder. I really don't get what's wrong with me.

[@i-am-the-slime]

BG3 Was extremely boring, so were the soulless TOTK and Mario Wonder. I really don't get what's wrong with me.

[@i-am-the-slime]

BG3 Was extremely boring, so were the soulless TOTK and Mario Wonder. I really don't get what's wrong with me.

[@RockR277]

@@i-am-the-slime Did you mean to post this 4 times? Well, as far as what's wrong with you goes, nothing that I'm aware of. I loved BG3 but disliking it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

[@Mezelenja]

59:48 This screenshot explains my pov of game criticism very well. Two of the YTers are mad there are gay or black people in their games, and one is saying that abusing your employees is bad. People see these viewpoints as all equally valid, but to me, it's easy to see the hateful grift oozing out of those bottom 2 videos. They are the cancer of the reviewer side of youtube. They always end up getting mad at diversity instead of the obvious problem: capitalists. Money hungry fiends pushing their employees, making them work on such impossible, grueling, deadlines that they have literal breakdowns. One video addresses this problem. The other two drive you to hate random groups of people for being represented.

[@gab_gabriel7091]

I genuinely felt shivers down my spine when I found out which choice you did in Gollum

[@ms6653]

Bet he had to do it for the shock value

[@aknkerse]

Lore accurate Gollum lmao

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

It was unironically a good scene and painful.

[@kx7500]

Time stamp?

[@mr.voidroy6869]

​@aknkerse3256 ehh kinda.... Little one is why gollum is constantly a prisoner. Killing the bird is the cannon ending.

[@nesteranioss]

Great video. I think your message about failure toward the end is something a lot of people should get reminded of.

[@Tupapirico2024]

Thank you for making this video, the last part truly got some tears out of me. Failure can suck, yes, but there is something so human, so beautiful about honest attempts in art which I think is ignored a lot nowadays.

[@vyrus2]

I say this on nearly every video you release, but you are an absolute legend and I really hope you know that and take pride in the quality of work you do and the joy you bring to your viewers with your level of dedication to your craft.

[@goast_cuard]

Unfortunately, we as consumers are not in a relationship with game companies in which we can talk problems out and come to amicable compromises, to the people who fund and control game development, we are cattle to parasitically leech from with the least amount of effort they can get away with. They can and do make the end product worse intentionally with anti-consumer practices, against the wishes of the customer AND developers, because they are allowed to do so. Hatred, fervor, and doomsaying is the only thing they respond to because it can actually impact their sales and sometimes even lead to legal issues. If not for that risk, they would dismiss everything we say and expect us to take whatever we're given. In the past you might have been able to give even keeled and fair critique of something and get a positive response that lead to the improvement of a game. But time has marched on and budgets have gotten higher. The passionate developers are no longer in charge of (non-indie) games, businessmen are. And they WILL take a mile if you give an inch. I think a fair way to approach the modern games landscape is how Ross's Game Dungeon / Accursed Farms does it. You have to reconginze that companies will try to rip you off and kill games off so they can charge you more for the next new thing, but the game itself should be judged on its own merrits as well.

[@joel6376]

> can talk problems out and come to amicable compromises We cannot. But we can just not buy them. Company of heroes received a new instalment this year (or maybe 2022, time flies). I didn't buy it because of their track record, preferring to hold off on what it would end up being. The community that bought it at release and were disappointed.. well what can you expect really? Likewise the vocal COD community that prefer some old version they think was better yet will still buy the latest version, only to want the old version they like. The quakeworld community is sort of on the right track - they play the original version from 25 years ago and are happy with it. If more consumers didn't buy shit games and played what they already liked instead of chasing the next big thing (which is almost always worse) then we wouldn't have the situation we have.

[@goast_cuard]

@@joel6376 Yep, things like that are some of the reasons why I said we are not in that kind of relationship

[@panzershreck8077]

Great comment mate. It's unbelievable how easy it is to get rid of anti consumer corporations and gaming studios if more people had the tiniest bit of self respect and patience when it comes to throwing away their money. I've become a big pirater now, refusing to give my money to companies and fucking them over at the same time lol. Once you've gone through the absolute psychologically manipulative game franchises that want to squeeze as much money out of you as possible *cough* *cough* (Destiny 2 and Bungie), you just begin to have a complete and unforgiving hatred towards majority of Triple A studios and new mediocre game releases.

[@Creator_Chris]

So happy you're still making these videos, they are always an absolute banger and this is no exception.

[@Melsharpe95]

Small point: The "videogame crash" was US-centric not worldwide. In Europe and the UK we were all still using microcomputers and gaming for us didn't slow down, even for a second. Hell, we had Jet Set Willy, Sabre Wulf, Elite, Jetpac, Chuckie Egg, Hunchback, Way of the Exploding Fist, Repton, Mercenary... all released during the American console crash. Great video though. Channel is definitely worth a sub.

[@awakeandwatching953]

very good point, the combination of micro computers and thriving gaming publications supporting that industry really helped us avoid what the US faced.. probably also helped many of us were gaming on cassette tapes that were not exactly expensive then floppy disks that meant we always had a stream of "free" games to play

[@KasumiRINA]

And in Eastern Europe videogames weren't a thing and people played Ataris and Famiclones in 90s, so there was nothing even close to crash, everything was new as in USSR fun was illegal.

[@akshyun8920]

I came in expecting a fun video about bad video games and maybe a brief history lesson. I hate how it suddenly became a video about that novel I have been writing but can't show anyone. Out of everything I was expecting, I never thought even in my wildest of dreams that someone could make me cry over the failure of the gollum game, that someone could make me relate to it in such a personal way. It's currently two in the morning, and I'm just sitting here, looking at my monitor with several thoughts on my mind, and yet no words to express how I feel. I guess that's all I wanted to write in my comment. Thanks for this great video.

[@КудрявцевИван-ь6б]

Don't be so harsh on yourself. Try to distance from your writing when you're in the mood for a critique, try to read it as a reader, not a writer. You'll see the flaws and will surely make your story better. And then, it will also be easier to show it to your friends, family and eventually - your primary audience. Please, remember that objectively, there cannot be a perfect story, as all of the narrative is subjective and is percieved with subjectivity. Also, the fact that you enjoy critiques like this video proves that you can likely withstand a critique of your own work and even better - you are capable of perfecting your writing, as you are interested in flaws and strengths of narratives. So please, stay strong and be proud of your work. (Saying this for myself as well lol. We're all in the same boat as creators)

[@akshyun8920]

@@КудрявцевИван-ь6б Thanks for your reply. The fact you took time out of your day to write this did mean a lot.

[@QuantumTelephone]

@akshyun8920 if it sucks, no one will care. If it's decent, people might care. That's the rationale for releasing any of my work. You literally have nothing to lose

[@JackWse]

Yeah I totally said that about his mass effect video.. And never in a million years did I ever expect to have some sort of emotional Reaction to a game Comprised of generic label - insert Desired emotion selection... Configure and then insert dialogue from Selection b, people, Behavior Interaction... Now insert dialogue that best represents (selection b, people, behavior interaction). And yet as he was Narrating and adding that necessary context and weight, A video I had on in the background suddenly just took center stage.. I still feel like that has a little bit more to do with His presentation And storytelling capabilities but, Somehow he was able to pull And filter out Actual real Human emotion... Perhaps the barrist Of base extracts that were used for The synthesis of the generic off-label Stock cookie cutterVersions that Give this impression as if the game makers never actually Had been familiar with things like human or interaction or character or dialogue From people or person in.. Outside environment... Rare treat when someone is willing to dedicate that level of effort into something that, They themselves Are entirely aware of its artificially... In stark contrast to the Zeitgeist, Which benefits from a level of suspension of disbelief and cognitive dissonance, As insertThing here automatically translates to the actualThing, as if it was from a real person... What makes it all kind of incredible is that... This is someone that Regularly enjoys and consumesMM o's and other content that is probably some of the worst examples of this, Both narratively and interactively and character... To find someone that is both self-aware of the reality of things and still enjoy them, And still be able to provide an analysis from a actual person that Also understands narrative and human and human Interaction and character... That's pretty much a unicorn right there. The fact that he has a Staggered cadence in his narration, Which adds So much toThe delivery that it's hard to even describe given how multitasking it is.. The first time I ever heard someone talk like that was a Weekend overnight radio DJ on a public radio station... And they single-handedly changed my life.. They also disappeared at 4 in the morning in the middle of A show... And I would only find out years later they were even still alive... Anyhow never if you're reading this For one apologies and congratulations on getting this far... LOL I'm on a Samsung phone and it Somehow makes the act of speech to text both a skill based dexterity game, And endurance struggle... And active attempt to not throw your phone into a wall simulator, Also expanding your grammatical capabilities to figure out how to Work your way around those phrases and words that it just doesn't want to do.. while adding an element of danger that it could all get deleted immediately or we'll just delete in the middle of it and commonly does. And also that you're you're pretty cool is all.. and appreciate you... And also I'm pretty sure you are quite possibly one of the most unique of all creators on this channel so you can take that home and do what you will with that.. Certainly of the video game folk, you and grimbeard Have an almost completely unique Delivery and methodology That I don't even think people would know where to start to copy... And if they did it just wouldn't work because a large part of it is whether how utterly earnest things come across... I spent a stupid amount of time ranting at my dad , who lovingly and patiently listened to me as I went in circles too the modern day PR speech that exists and pervades pretty much every facet of official communication, And how it in no way could possibly Be construed for genuine even if they are.. You're pretty much the opposite of that... Like in every way really.

[@TheMosquitoHunter]

Hello, fellow writer here. Please do not think that this novel will be your first and last. Your first book is always an experiment and you will use what you learned for your second and third book. You're not supposed to approach writing with a success/failure mindset. It's something much more deeply connected to your individual self. As you better yourself, which simply comes with living for decades, so will your writing, and the more you write the better your writing technique will be. Writing it's an evolution of the self, it's about honing both of the things I said. If you're solely chasing success it's very simple: write controversial stuff, possibly porn like 50 shades of grey, but you will pay that with your soul. Do not write for the approval of others, write for yourself. Make your inner self shine, and so will your artwork. Give your novel to family and friends: writing (and reading) creates connection with people, and even if you're not going big that shared experience will give you something that no amount of success will. Pasolini, an italian intellectual, said very similar things about success, I suggest you to watch some videos. Some will say that this is loser mindset, but I assure you it's not, it's just that society makes you think that you're only worth as much as your money. Happiness truly is in the smaller things. After writing for a decade, where I tried to make it big, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather be a small and unknown author but with some genuinely interested people in my work. There's much, much more freedom of expression and human contact when you don't have to worry about sponsors or angering the general public. You can choose to write for your happiness or for the market, and if you really want to create something truly meaniningful you better do the former. Art is meant to be shared. Don't be afraid. Such is the essence of writing, and thus the essence humanity

[@liamstark5982]

I just want to take a minute to appreciate people like you in the algorithm In a sea of content creators just following the "gaming is ruined" trend, there's people like you who are actually rationally thinking about bad stuff in the gaming industry without letting it coat your entire view Thank you so much for making this video

[@elveone]

I disagree with one statement - sometimes bad game coverage is based on lies because it is easier and more profitable to pander to preconceived notions from before the game released than to go against the grain.

[@rockotrex]

This is true, so many youtubers and streamers say the same statement of "I hope the game proves me wrong" when they say the game trailers looks bad, but when the game comes out they are willing to twist the truth and their own perception just so they can tell us they were "right" with their predictions.

[@megamilkxl3414]

This is so true, so many average or even decent games that get smashed by public opinion and a hate circlejerk forms

[@yveltalsea]

@@rockotrex "I hope the game proves me wrong" also just means that they like the idea and hope it does well. Not everything is just about views lol.

[@mazaltovcocktail]

Didn't Kingdom Come: Deliverance get hit with this? I remember something about the game getting a ton of bad coverage for not making 1400s Bohemia not diverse enough.

[@flavionms]

That sounds like a huge cope to me. People certainly exaggerate their opinions, but overall bad game coverage is just reproducing what the viewers already think. But for that to work, the viewers need to actually think that. Just because you think a game should've been received differently, doesn't mean the reception it got was wrong.

[@QuantumTelephone]

Listening to you successfully defend gollum was like watching a crazed naked guy take on a dragon and winning. I could not believe it.

[@theoaremevano3227]

So your average Souls game stream? XD

[@QuantumTelephone]

@theoaremevano3227 exactly lol. It's like letmesoloher

[@bunnydoriya]

This is the best critical essay in gaming of 2023. It was an extremely... eventful year in gaming and one thing I felt way quite poorly handled overall was the discourse around bad games and this analysis puts into words why perfectly. While I don't neccessarily agree with everything you say, especially that the publishing side of Gollum shouldn't be blamed with malicious intent, you sum up perfectly how the discourse around these games and problems revolves around anger and toxicity while not only ignoring the realities of developers, but is also very detached form any sensible definition of "bad" for the sake of the algorithmically supported response - quick anger. Very good work, leaving a sub.

[@Azroix]

The anecdote about Kafka at 1:26:17 really got to me.

[@EmilForsberg_GRYBO]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all

[@ozandenizgunu]

Shakespeare also never published his poems either, because it didn't fit to the accepted mold of sonnets at that time.

[@rdrouynriv]

I did not expect to watch a video that made me develop some appreciation for LOR: Gollum and its developers, but here I am. Well done.

[@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax]

Me neither. Nice surprise. This is what we need more of instead of the constant toxic faux fanboy KZbinrs and their simps.

[@marushall263]

@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax so not liking a game is toxic and being a simp. bet you think starfield and lords of the fallen are amazing games

[@woaddragon]

@@marushall263 thanks for proving Rage ( kinda ironic) point.

[@theobell2002]

@@marushall263 This is exactly the type of tone deaf response I expect from someone who is subbed to the guy who had a meltdown over pronouns in Starfield.

[@mxt3k]

I do wish more people would recognize and/or accept that [games, movies, music, shows, etc] can be bad but also be fun at the same time. "This is terrible" and "I loved this" are not mutually exclusive statements

[@dimebag667]

I'm not a huge Blink-182 fan, but the midi transitions fit really well. Great video all around 👍

[@kryg]

One of my favorite Twitch streamers is someone who has played a lot of bad games and has given shout outs to a lot of their devs. Love the message of appreciating bad games for what they are and for trying to do something cool or unique.

[@captainblastems3367]

may i ask whom they are i want to watch more people like that

[@tivvy2vs21]

​@@captainblastems3367second this

[@r1enfleche]

I agree that basically every hobby/community enjoys negativity and failure more than success from an engagement standpoint. In pro sports, fans went crazy over watching the Bruins blow a 3-1 lead after the best regular season in NHL history, the Warriors doing the same in 2016, Mavs vs. Suns game 7 with the "Chris Paul hits a huge three to cut the lead to 42" meme, etc.

[@AlreadyDead87]

I'm honestly convinced that Crime Boss game didn't actually exist and it's all part of a fever dream we've all shared. Didn't even hear about it till the end of this year

[@the-birbo]

everything i've seen of the gaming crash kind of points out that the only people affected were the people who caused it in the first place, rich people in the market. people were still playing games and buying new ones, they just weren't putting money in the pockets of the ones most prone to temper-tantrums.

[@rdrouynriv]

yup it was all due to oversaturation and bad business practices. The success of the NES a couple of years later showed that people still wanted to buy games.

[@Phillip_Brewin_Hutchins]

I hadn’t heard about Silent Hill Ascension until now..But it’s safe to say that it made me feel more ill than the cancellation of PT. Amazing video work as always 🙌

[@benl2140]

Damn, I was not expecting to be tearing up while listening to someone describe the ending to The Lord of Ring: Gollum.

[@i-am-the-slime]

The Lord of Ring 🥲

[@i-am-the-slime]

The Lord of Ring 🥲

[@i-am-the-slime]

The Lord of Ring 🥲

[@i-am-the-slime]

The Lord of Ring 🥲

[@KatieGimple]

It sounds kind of like part of the problem with Gollum is that the developer skipped their Witcher 2 equivalent. The Witcher 1 and earlier games from Daedelic were small indy games that showed that they could make something good, but they were still small indy games with limited audiences. The Witcher 2 was a huge step up in size and quality, but it was still smaller than other AAA games, and acted as a stepping stone to Witcher 3 which was their first game that was really AAA. It feels like with Gollum Daedelic tried to jump straight from indy to AAA without the funding or experience necessary, and if they had started with something just a little smaller and easier, it would have done better and opened up the potential for them to make the Gollum game that they truly envisioned.

[@GreyManFaustus]

I think they tried with Silence and State of Mind, but both just didn't land.

[@TheLimeyDragon]

The problem with the historical side of this video is that it is extremely US-centric. There was no Video Game Crash in Europe/Japan in 1983 and Nintendo didn't "save" gaming in Europe because there was no Crash.. The Sega Master System sold better in Europe than the NES.

[@KasumiRINA]

*Western Europe. In Eastern we just had Dendy. And other famiclones. Sega Master System is something I learned from KZbin, we had Mega Drive (and no SNES). We also lacked more complex games like Zelda and later Mario titles. So have different nostalgic at 9999 in 1 carts but we played some Famicom Japanese exclusives.

[@TheLimeyDragon]

@@KasumiRINA The Dendy.. what an interesting pirate console that was.

[@Anacronian]

I do think that most gamers feel a general dissatisfaction with the gaming industry, So when a bad game releases, gamers tend to overreact and went their frustration on that. It is a sad thing that an industry that's mainly focused on entertainment(in whatever form that might take) has so much pent-up anger.

[@max7971]

Who determines overreaction? What’s an appropriate reaction for paying full price for a gollum game and experiencing it? Please tell me how I should react to red fall, I really want to know.

[@Otherface]

@max7971 at least indifferent. Why focus on one terrible game forever when there is dozens of video games that deserves more love and attention? Honestly I agree with this guy. The gaming community is filled with so much negativity, that at this point people focus only on the bad stuff.

[@genyakozlov1316]

​@@max7971Burn all your belongings and go live in the woods, as you're clearly too attached to money. If you have enough money to spend on a game instead of pirating it you have no room to complain. Spend on things you actually need next time, maybe only buy a game after you pirated it to support the developer you like. It's not Gollum's fault you bought it.

[@MrArchilus]

I hate the gaming community more than the industry.

[@Dank_Engine]

We like it when others screw up because it takes the pressure off us

[@RedWolfenstein]

Or video games these days are by in large low quality slop that are made for the average consumer which are also fed what to believe by our so called intellectual betters.

[@woaddragon]

​@@RedWolfensteinCongratulations, you talk about licence games, when been around the industry for decades

[@Dext3rM0rg4n]

@@RedWolfenstein "Back in the olden days video game weren't made for consumer ! Please, PLEASE, think I'm smart".

[@Nelsathis]

But.. does it? Looks like a lot of pressure to me, as soon as you want to create something.

[@MentokTheMindTaker]

​@@RedWolfensteinYes I can say buzzwords and hate everything with zero naunce or critical thought as well, please like me

[@yokaitoybox7649]

I feel like a lot of the criticism against hyperbole can also be directed at the movie industry. I heard so many people say that theaters are dying, Disney is dying, 2023 was a terrible year for movies blah blah blah but I went to many PACKED theaters and saw some great movies! Just because some stinkers came out doesn't mean theaters or the movie industry is dying lol

[@jeice13]

If a decline in quality is gradual enough peoples standards will drop accordingly so sales arent a completely reliable measure. Comparing products from different eras fixes this though it may have different weaknesses

[@AL-lh2ht]

Sonic bad games is a interesting example of IP that lost its luster but still had a hardcore fanbase. So they made lower budget, and going crazy directions games that didn’t review well, but that hardcore fanbase bought them all making much of those “bad” sonic games actually be profitable. That is why there are so many weird sonic games

[@Ellimist000]

I liked the shadow game quite a bit. Fight me lol

[@barnkil8029]

The games this guy decided to list are easily some of the most expensive and ambitious Sonic games. It is still criminal that Sonic Unleashed still has this bad reputation outside the fandom because of low review scores.

[@hjblacdes61]

I did too but but it's still pretty bad lol ​@@Ellimist000

[@kamurotetsu4860]

Sonic fanbase are used to decades of mediocre Sonic games to be fair.

[@Robotta]

​@@barnkil8029Ngl, it was so weird to see Unleashed and Riders after 06 and Shadow. Didn't know they were reviewed that badly, considering how well received they are today. Also, he did put Mania after as a joke, so I think that segment was more a mockery to the exaggerated hate to Sonic games.

[@jeremyseely6579]

Dude, your summary wrap up was profound. I'm very glad that you spent the time to make this video.

[@bibliotechno86]

I think that Gollum's sin was that LotR is such a beloved IP. We've been waiting for an amazing LotR game for so long, and a game like that at full price feels like not only a slap in the face to the consumer, but a deep disrespect for the source material. However, anyone that has harassed the devs or anyone else involved in its production have no excuse. They're just being horrible people.

[@UseTheLess00]

"We live in a society". Shivers ran down my spine as I heard such words being uttered.

[@Frysbear]

I super agree. Trashing on something an individual made is never good. Even if what someone made wasn't good, simply being willing to share it should be celebrated. You can always focus on how to improve rather than making them feel like they should stop. And when a team of people is working on something itsn't that different. People still put hard work into that thing. There is a big difference between being upset at a system that rushed a game or promoted a bad work environment resulting in something bad, and calling out people who worked on it. There are so many games out there that aren't perfect, but you can always see a part of it that someone put a lot of passion into.

[@TheJschreib]

This is a ridiculous great video - even handed takes and frankly a point of view outside of the outrage machine that we don't get to hear often. +1 Subscription

[@JS-ui5ew]

Thank you for sticking with it! Never disappointed when you release your work - happy new year🎉

[@wareagle415]

Always appreciate your optimistic viewpoints, or rather, you're very calm and reasonable viewpoints.

[@Thicc_Boyo]

Sanity on KZbin? NOT ALLOWED! THIS IS THE WORST TAKE OF ALL TIME!

[@Chance_Audio]

I was hooked when I heard 8-bit blink 182 music. ❤🎉 Made it difficult for me to focus on what you were saying at first. Great video, as I always expect from you! You somehow made me feel shame, and actual sadness about gollum. Hearing the story laid out this way makes you look at a lot of things differently. Makes you look at yourself differently. Why is it so easy to hate?

[@LeoKRogue]

Some of the most interesting games, and ones that people latch onto are the What-Could-Have-Beens, the Thief 2014s, the AC Unitys, the games that were _meant_ to be so much more, and just never quite got there. There is a special kind of mythos around those kind of games, niche communities and cult followings arise around them and even years from release, that group of players keeps looking back and thinking, "Man... Imagine if it ended up being what we were told we'd get." Reconciling that with the game that exists and still managing to enjoy it in some way is a peculiar, beautiful and bittersweet feeling.

[@s3studios597]

Sonic P06 seems to be a pretty good actualization of this from everything I've seen and heard.

[@LeoKRogue]

Yeah! Sonic P06, the Unofficial Patch for Vampire Bloodlines, and even recently the ACUFixes mod for AC Unity are all fun examples of how the community's will to love the game and still tease out some of its latent potential can lead to some legendary folks taking matters into their own hands and making revolutionary improvements to the experience that help _everyone_ love it even more. It's really cool to see, every time. @@s3studios597

[@yerba_morte]

This is a fantastic video that comes at a time where it seems like more people are becoming aware of the endless flow of content slop coming from creators who are just trying to maximize their views. Excellent work as always!

[@topgamer101]

Excellent video. The problem is human beings have such a tendency towards their emotions over taking a second to stop and be logical about things that they tend to veer towards extreme positions so sadly this is always kind of a thing, has always been kind of a thing, and likely will always be kind of a thing. But you are right, people who are trying to be creators or artists don't really deserve the extra vitriol or toxic actions of a ton of these people, and it's part of the reason I've grown far less fond of extreme type actions over my life. It always damages the thing it's aimed at, rarely ever helps. Every video game, be they successful or failure, good or bad, etc has positive aspects that can be taken from it either as the consumer, the developer, or in some other way like you mentioned about addressing a problematic situation in the industry, as well as negative aspects. NOTHING is perfect. NO video game that ever comes out is perfect. That thing anyone thinks is perfect is them willingly looking over flaws where in another game they wouldn't, and even if by some miracle the game could be considered "flawless" perfection in my mind means no one should ever have a problem with it and 100% of the world's population should agree that it's amazing, which is impossible.

[@raccoonja-ronja]

For 10 years getting a job at Daedalic was kind of my dream. After finishing university two years ago I applied to them for Gollum, now I'm kind of glad I didn't get that job.

[@lizzfrmhon]

I agree with you about how critical we are now of everything and that negativity sells. It’s happening with games, movies and tv shows where KZbinrs ranting about them are aplenty and we are all watching them.

[@ChrisBear1989]

I am fairly confident a lot of older games would of burned and died if we were at the height of social media we are today(YT included).

[@ekki1993]

1:02:33 I also dislike that "mid" has become an insult for bad games. It's like mediocre no longer exists.

[@BAIGAMING]

Daedalic's closure made me sad because I really enjoyed their point-and-click titles like Edna & Harvey and Deponia.

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

Here before this undoubtedly great video gets wrongfully copyright stricken… Love you NeverKnowsBest ❤️

[@evandroluizcanato2422]

The video was about bad games but I'm really impressed about how much it made me reflect about my own life and how the fear of failure is holding me. Thanks for the insights and the inspiration :))). Best regards from Brazil ;)

[@a5c0]

I truly love your videos. Great visuals and fantastic VO. ❤

[@windwind3170]

13:45 "I just destroyed a studio. With my freaking writing! Ha ha!"

[@jcdcch]

Thanks, Never. You are without a doubt one of the best videogame stuff creators on youtube. Nobody else is willing to take the time and effort to make this kind of nuanced points about videogames, the culture surrounding them and their impact on the human species, especially not in your wonderful open minded and reflexively grounded style. You are criminally under watched. You should have millions of suscribers and the gaming content sphere would be all the better for it. Thanks a lot, man. I hope you keep doing videos for a long time to come. Greetings from Mexico!

[@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax]

This type of analyses is what us viewers deserve. I'm pleased I came across this channel. Nuance has been lost in this day and age. Hate and anger has taken over instead. Won't be forever though. How long will it take for that hate to end? Who knows!

[@superbnns]

This is a really beautiful video. You laid out, sorted through, and explained ideas and concepts that I've had floating in my head for quite a while better than I could have done. Especially when you went through to see the actually good aspects of Gollum. And you even avoided the moral grandstanding and call to action that is an easy pitfall to find yourself in. It's simply part of human psychology. You had me shedding tears at the part about how creating is hard. Beautiful video.

[@prw56]

"Unless you are very lucky, failure is the best teacher you will ever have." Something about highlighting that some lucky few actually had those perfect teachers makes the latter part have more weight. If you wrote that, I think you did a good job.

[@pedroscoponi4905]

Really good thoughts here, a lot of stuff I've also thought about on occasion. The way the majority of nerd culture treats bad or disappointing media as a _sin_ is strange and disturbing. The way negativity, especially the exagerated frothing-at-the-mouth sort, makes huge numbers compared to positive or nuanced takes, is not strange or even surprising but it is still disturbing. It's hard for me to look at it as harmless fun when the desire for a punching bag that motivates it seems to be the same impulse that _does_ cause harm in other circumstances.

[@sponge1234ify]

@@fudgepacker2858 then stop looking toward the usual culprits. Plenty of games are released this year alone without all the problems you mentioned, they're just not made by infamous names like Konami or Ubisoft or Bethesda

[@sponge1234ify]

@@fudgepacker2858 ...I never said this game doesn't deserve hate, what?

[@MrBlueWaooWaoo]

​@@fudgepacker2858People under 50 are NOT allowed to have an opinion on video games- agree 100% You must be this tall to enter the ride and all that

[@sponge1234ify]

@@fudgepacker2858 i... what? I have never said anything about anyone giving criticism No, what I meant is that there's still games with passion and love out there that's just like your older games, you just need to stop looking at the *companies* known to be releasing bad games.

[@JustCommonPlain]

I understand what you mean, it's depressing. Even around other gamers, it's like they don't even view it as a hobby anymore but a war that must be won. They have this dystopian view of the gaming industry, as if 99% of games are money-hungry cash grabs. But yet, these same people will never go out and explore other titles. They often play those fomo-inducing games, buy without researching, and do not keep an open mind for other games. Their suffering is usually of their own making, but the internet wants you to believe it's just the developer's fault. Don't get me wrong, there are cash-hungry developers and terrible games... But many of these people need to take responsibility for their entertainment. Understand what they like, research, and keep an open mind. If they want to change the industry, the perfect way is to support games that further your vision of the industry. With that being said, I'm not sure if that type of change can ever happen due to the nature of the internet. Social media tend to make us into drama-obsessed monsters, and we tend to lose sight of what matters. It's less about making a better industry, but kicking someone while their down. I've seen many gamers just jump onto the hate bandwagon, despite if the criticism is well deserved or not. It's so bad, that people will hate on games they've never played. TLOU 2 for example, I've talked to many people who complain about gameplay, but when asked none of them have even played it. They regurgitate whatever their favorite streamer said, like their word is gospel. Not saying every person with a criticism were like that, but only the ones I talked to. Video game discussions are getting circle jerky.

[@Vasiliy9hells]

Honestly, as much as i hate to focus on a negatives, i think this attention of the media for the bad games is for the best overall. There are so much good things in a world in general, and in gaming industry specifically to waste your time on a sub-par product. And if people will be aware of the bad product, chances are it will gradually die out. The consumer awareness can never be too high, IMHO.

[@rockotrex]

Well sure, that makes sense, but there's also the problem of too much awareness for the bad games and too little for the good ones. It's noticeable when you see how some youtubers would rather make 3 videos about how bad and horrible is the last call of duty, than making AT LEAST 1 video of a GOOD game that came out in the same time period. It's far too disproportionate imo.

[@manyseas1219]

not really the constant videos of "raising awareness" about "bad video games" drown out the "good games". Video games are subjective. A lot of highly praised games are not "good games". KZbin promotes negative content over positive. I discovered a lot of good movies by switching to paid tv and streaming services. KZbin most popular videos are just that popular and without substance. Its mass produced slop.

[@Vasiliy9hells]

@@rockotrex Depends on the youtuber i guess:) But yeah, i know just the type that sh*ts on everything except their few chosen titles, so i know what you mean

[@Vasiliy9hells]

@@manyseas1219 Fair enough, i probably should've clarified in my comment that i was talking not only about a youtube (which can be a real cesspool sometimes) but about a whole enviroment where you can become familiar with the state of the industry and hear what a regular players think

[@manyseas1219]

@@Vasiliy9hells yeah that makes sense. "the state of the industry" do you refer to the gaming industry or just every industry in the world ?

[@Piotrlagwa]

The ending really struck me in a good way. Love your analysis and this one goes to my favourites :D.

[@gobomania]

Just wanna add a note about Diablo 4 that goes beyond your assessment of "dissapointment". D4 when reviewed by a newsoutlet is a very limited scoped timeframe. D4 is not just a main story experience, but sells itself on its replayability and end-game meta crafting and that is why you see a huge difference between user and critic reviews as D4 really doesn't do its end-game loop very well.

[@Yesnomu]

On the flip side, I remember hearing the same kinds of criticism of Diablo 3 before its expansion, which put it into a much better place. So it's weird to me that people have such a negative reaction to Diablo 4's endgame/replayability and assume the game is dead, instead of expecting the same kind of cycle.

[@BusesAreFatCars]

@@Yesnomu They expect Blizzard to have learned from their mistakes after Diablo 3. They did not. They shouldn't have to pay $80 for a game only to expect that maybe it will be good a year or so later when they pay even more to get the DLC that fixes it. Why is anyone still making excuses like this? It's disgusting.

[@Yesnomu]

@@BusesAreFatCars Yeah, why didn't they flip the "fun endgame" switch from Off to On from the beginning??? Has anyone ever made a live service game expected to be played for years and gotten it right the first time? The devs will do their best at making content they expect to be fun to play over and over, but they physically can't playtest 1% as much as the playerbase will experience on the very first day.

[@BusesAreFatCars]

@@Yesnomu Give it a rest with this absolute nonsense. This is a multi billion dollar company that can hire the best talent in the entire world, drawing from the over 8 billion people on this planet. The company has decades of experience. They made exactly the game they intended to make. They spent more time focusing on monetisation than making it fun, as Blizzard has done ever since Diablo 3. You speak as if you know much about this industry. Do you work for Blizzard? I can't imagine any other reason you'd be making excuses for this. Fond of the rancid cash grab that is Diablo Immortal are you? Supported Bethesda's horse armour? Blizzard made the game they wanted to make. As usual they work with psychologists to craft monetisation systems to extract the maximum cash from gamers. Gameplay comes second. Or worse. If you are not an employee of Blizzard, then take a look into some of the things they've done over the past twelve or so years. The company has no morals, and they do not value gamers beyond their money. "Do you not have phones?"

[@friendlylaser]

Never knew "gone home" was a part of gamergate discussion. I just bought it based on steam trailer. It was quite enjoyable cozy little story, nothing offensive about it. Not like a game of a decade, but it was nice enough to enjoy for a few evenings - a little well made and acted out narrative.

[@JewTube001]

It was hated because it was a woke walking simulator, and this was the start of people really hating woke and really hating walking simulators.

[@JewTube001]

As for the game itself it's pretty meh and average. Firewatch and Soma would be some better examples of the genre. Or even Chinese Room games. The fullbright games tend to be too short and simple for their own good.

[@jennyjams2343]

@@JewTube001 Woke is a thought-terminating buzzword to replace substantive criticism and for people to avoid saying what they really mean. It doesn't mean anything anymore. For fuck's sake there are people who say paleontology is woke all because the T. Rex is now thought by some scientists to have had feathers.

[@max7971]

$14.99 for an hour of walking and shitty narration. It’s cool that you liked it, but some people just have less shitty taste in video games.

[@gamersinger5118]

@@JewTube001 Definitely agree with Firewatch being far superior. Also What Remains of Edith Finch which I may consider the very best of the genre for me.

[@thevoidhunter_]

Finally got to watching this video after putting it off for a while Definitely was fun a ride, did not expect the section at the end to hit me right in the feels like that. I really appreciate you highlighting the potential of Gollum when most other videos completely ignore them. And reading the comments also explain some things behind the scenes that the video fails to video which complicate this issue even more. All of these make me reflect about creative works in general, about how I've been mindlessly hating things I barely know without even giving em a chance. Realizing that even behind the shittiest of game or any another media, there was at least someone who cared and tried their best really makes me appreciate creative works and their creator even more. And as someone trying to pursue art in an environment where its almost impossible to compete, that kind of persistence might be the inspiration I need to go on

[@Syae22]

Well, at least you are someone who can reflect and aren't one of the hundreds of comments calling this video woke or bad because he isn't another person who hates gaming. We should all have our own experiences. Listening to KZbinrs or other influencers is a bad thing to do because they often just call most things bad because a good game doesn't give clicks; a bad game they can hate sure does.

[@theobell2002]

@@Syae22 Wait, there are people who call this video "woke"? lmao

[@riotangel4701]

There is a big difference between "no one wants to make a bad game" and "one thinking s/he is so marvelous it's impossible to make a bad game"

[@sindri1447]

God damn even 8bit Blink182 music gets me bopping my head while listening to a video essay. Good job as always. Loved the video. Keep it up man ❤

[@Kirblae]

Damn, your perspective is so interesting. I didn’t think this video could last more than like 30mins. But the entire video is entertaining, especially with all the specific examples

[@BlackReshiram]

as a creator myself its so hard to overcome the anxiety of making myself ridiculed because i published something that is what i perceive as bad. even if i put my blood sweat and tears into it, the fear of being made fun of and rejected is so unbelievably deepset in me that it physically hurts i wish i could overcome it and be brave enough to share the stuff i make openly.

[@BlackReshiram]

im a writer and artist, not a game maker, although i wish i could make games but i dont understand the first thing of coding haha. the problem remains the same. but youre probably right; just being mediocre enough to not inspire strong feelings at all if the worst fate a creation can have. @@SkeleTonHammer

[@subject_n]

@@SkeleTonHammer that just depends on what you value more, your wallet or your mental health

[@keiyangoshin3650]

Thank you for this video. It was much more then a video game ted talk. I cried for reason's not related to little one. Thank you for sharing your opinion on the subject of 'bad' games. It's a relief to finally hear someone advocate for less anger and less vile criticism. All the best to you, Neverknowsbest, and your loved ones. God Bless. ♥

[@ludi_64]

There's something about your videos I find so captivating! they're so well paced. Have you ever ran into any copywrite issues using MIDI versions of popular songs in your videos? I love that idea!

[@erris5744]

On Hyenas, I'd argue that there is a decent chance that a good chunk of the Total War community being completely against the idea of Hyenas because they'd rather be getting support on Total War (which desperately needs it) could have had a part to play in it's cancellation. I only heard of Hyenas from the Total War subreddit having a conniption fit that it was being made while Warhammer 3 is, to some of them, unplayable.

[@ScrantRopely]

Just amazing as always. Your videos never fail to provoke my emotions and those blink 182 tunes were 👌👏