New Alternative to Kardashev Scale Explains Fermi Paradox

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Hello and welcome! My name is Anton and in this video, we will talk about new research that tries to create a new alternative to the famous Kardashev scale and redefine our understanding of alien intelligence...as well as maybe answer the famous Fermi Paradox.
Paper: arxiv.org/pdf/2005.13221.pdf
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[@harmlesscreationsofthegree1248]

I think humans are off to a reasonable start. We have the Dyson vac, and the fan. We are certainly on the continuum...

[@mortkebab2849]

You've got a vac in your head.

[@rtbeerzi]

😂😂

[@rtbeerzi]

@@mortkebab2849 Hey give credit where it's due this was clever and you didn't see it

[@QuestionYourWorld]

Karl Pilkington would agree with you about Dyson.

[@nathangamble125]

We even have the dyson ball in those fancy hoovers that can go around corners! We just need to scale it up, and we'll have a proper dyson sphere!

[@disrxt]

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Arthur C. Clarke

[@danaholm9486]

Glad somebody else remembered the quote correctly.

[@mugwump7049]

Wait... what? It's not Thor?! /jk

[@RpattoYT]

Then where are all of the magicians?

[@mugwump7049]

@@RpattoYT Working for Elon.

[@kingoffire9373]

I thought it was magic, I was like huh?

[@isaacgreen9202]

Imagine an uncontacted tribe in amazonas discussing future human tribes. They would reason that as human advance, they will would make greater fires. A fire that can warm an entire village, than such big fire that it could warm the whole land. Than a fire big enough that it would give warmth too the whole world. Since they do not see any fire that lights the whole world, there are no other super advanced tribes. But on the other side of the globe humans have discovered a way to stay warm without fire but by using electricity.

[@KatSpicert]

Imagine their shock when they see Australia tho. "They must be super advanced!"

[@arddel]

We have created light that blinds the stars, and have warmed the world more than it has been in the past 1,000 years. I guess your Amazonians would call that advancement.

[@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820]

Let’s do that!

[@isaacgreen9202]

@@arddel I guess you did not get my point. That was an analogy on how ridicoulus kardashevs scale is. That would bee just like tribes in new guinea speculating future technology. Since fire is their most cutting edge technology that would be where they would start. Bigger and bigger fire.

[@isaacgreen9202]

However if you went to them and explained that actually human have created more warmth than has ever been created in the human history without even involving fire with nuclear energy for example. They would not understand you. Something that produces heat without fire would seem magic to them. So I think kardashevs scale is extremly wrong way of looking on advanced sophisticated civilzations, if there are any. My personal solution too Fermi Paradox is that we have been visited in the past. And we will probably found artifacts of their ancient presence probably on the moon or mars or maybe on some other moons in the solar system.

[@Xabraxus]

Humans: Check it out we build a bubble around a Galaxy. Advanced Aliens: We are the galaxy. Hyper Advanced Aliens: *Plank from Ed, Edd, n Eddy*

[@rudyberkvens-be]

N O idea what this means.

[@joepvanderven4882]

Bringing up the classic SFIA argument: this does assume that all alien civilizations would choose this route or that it's the only route forward, which would be questionable.

[@maxkronader5225]

True, as is frequently pointed out in SFIA, all it takes is one exception among the countless billions of solar systems, and it does not answer the Fermi Paradox.

[@joshuafraser3074]

Quantum Cheeseborger

[@joepvanderven4882]

@@joshuafraser3074 obviously

[@AndersonNSilva-mw7kl]

Hahaha. You bet me to it.

[@Qualiummusic]

And no matter how efficient you become, wasting most of the solar output by not building a Dyson sphere sounds odd for an advanced civilization (even if you are completely integrated with your environment, you would build more environment to become integrated with, probably optimized environment that supports conscious beings aka computers), unless you precisely want to hide. But again, it's questionable every alien species wants to hide. Edit: I can't imagine how you become integrated with radiation from a star so you don't waste it.

[@silvadelshaladin]

Thing is for this to be a fermi paradox solution, not one, some, or even MOST, but EVERY civilization would have to go the one with nature route, as well as every member of that civilization. All it would take is one splinter group saying -- I'd rather go tech than trees cya later and unless the civilization shoots down such groups and forbids them, they would make that dyson swarm someday.

[@Meauss]

Basically yes

[@LarsRyeJeppesen]

Yep, basic statistics and probability.

[@minimale100]

Was looking for this comment or would have put it myself. To continue your explanation, even if they all really choose the ‘nature route’ then still they need to get there first and until they do they would show signs.

[@kevinstrout630]

@@minimale100 And even if they do go down the nature route, because we have no reason to suspect that entropy can ever be reversed they MUST produce waste heat in some form. There are physical maximums that efficiency can approach. If a civilization were to reach these maximums in order to advance any further they would need to harness more energy.

[@Tamamo-no-Bae]

The thing is, we're assuming a Tech civilization would use Radio, or would build Dyson structures in a way that it's visible...Humans can't even see if Planet 9 exists. If we struggle to understand our backyard, how can we see the neighborhood?

[@mikesercanto9149]

Our first message from an alien world, "we've changed our privacy policy". LOL.

[@LC-yo3bj]

I'd immediately kill myself as fast as possible

[@mrwideboy]

Our civilisation requires you to allow cookies

[@erika002]

EULA Agreement

[@LC-yo3bj]

@Steven Baal @Steven Baal Nothing, been eating well and drinking water. If you want to live in a world where aliens follow strict corporate HR standards when they meet different species, be my guest, but I will most certainly do whatever I can to extinguish my life fire.

[@5amH45lam]

Our first message _TO_ an alien world, "no admittance without appropriate face covering."

[@MichaelPiz]

As I remember it, Clarke's quote is actually "Any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic." I've never heard it put the way you do.

[@seanrodgers1839]

This is the second video in a row where that quote was in the comments.

[@philipgage1072]

Correct.

[@vectorequilibrium4493]

Mandela Effect? 😁

[@ProfessorJayTee]

Clarke repeated that quote for decades. I find it quite likely that he rephrased and altered it upon occasion to suit the discussion.

[@fredglaeser9199]

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” ― Nikola Tesl

[@koba2209]

@Carver john I will do you one better. What's Tesl??

[@rlh1984]

An important thing to note is that the Kardishev scale was developed when computers were the size of entire rooms. So it makes sense that people would think all advancements in technology would need to scale up in size.

[@Necaradan666]

This is a mistake many seem to make when exploring this topic. Even the original Fermi paradox had nothing to do with modern interpretation of the question, same with the kardeshev scale, if you're talking about it you also need to take into account the increase of efficiency of energy usage when grading the civilisation, as efficiency improves the civ expands to match

[@ds5206]

Its not that hes calling us all wonderful people, he just only greets the wonderful ones and shuns the rest of us.

[@Ashley-jp4nn]

Every Single Time :O

[@TheExoplanetsChannel]

Hehe

[@sailinbob11]

Huh ? Not sure i understand. Clarify please.

[@Ashley-jp4nn]

robert caldwell “Hello Wonderful Person” doesn’t apply to everyone, just the people Anton likes (a joke)

[@sailinbob11]

@@Ashley-jp4nn ok... Thanks for the feedback. I don't see the humor, but I've missed the punchline of jokes before. I just enjoy his enthusiasm, and the information he provides. I'm a sailor, I constantly look at the sky at night,and though a lot of the information is way above my head,no pun intended, I enjoy the thought process. He makes me think,and seems like a wonderful person. Pun definitely intended. Lol... Peace !

[@TheReaper569]

Anton's smile and waving at the end makes everything so nice, i always wait to see that before moving on. In so many other channels i just click next after the channel owners starts anyway "thats all, be sure to subscribe... etc"

[@gusember2421]

I have been thinking, ever since watching Anton, that I was alone in doing that very thing! thanks for enjoying that infectious smile, and I hope he never changes from doing that. He is truly an unique personality. Pray for his safety in South Korea :-)

[@UltimateBargains]

1. ET is nonexistent. 2. ET is too distant for humans to detect. 3. ET is too stupid for humans to detect. 4. ET is too smart for humans to detect.

[@will2see]

5. Humans don't know what ET is.

[@planescaped]

6:The universe is cruel and all E.T's are basically stuck as cosmic microbes.

[@Vessekx]

7. ET existed 10,000 years ago, around a star 1,000 light years away, but no longer exists, meaning we’re about 9,000 years to late to see any evidence ce of their existence. The next ET will exist 10,000 years from now, on a world 50,000 light years away, but won’t even develop radio signals powerful enough to be seen from a Earth before being wiped out by a natural disaster. In short, these theories all presume that an alien civilization must be approximately as advanced as humans are, *right now* (as seen from Earth) so that they are possible to detect from earth, *right now*. We’ve been able to detect our even *own* civilization from off world for a few decades. Any signals that have passed us by will never be seen. Any signals which have not yet reached us, can’t be seen yet. The presumption that a civilization X light years away must have developed radio signals capable of being detected from Earth now must have reached that point within the last 50 years or so is *grievously* flawed.

[@HiroNguy]

8. You want ET? YOU CAN'T HANDLE ET!

[@bratwizard]

5. They are all very thin and standing sideways.

[@heilokcd2703]

Just a question that I'll throw into the room here: If we start modifying ourselves, and are not longer bound by the urges and limitations we were bound by, in all of history, then what are we going to replace it with? If we are able to change what has meaning to us, then would we choose complacency or being content, or would we choose some sort of ambition? Would we modify different humans to have differing life goals, effectively creating subspecies that only live to eat or work or reproduce? Would there be a distopia where a few chosen elites, or a superintelligent AI, are able to literally modify the world and the people however they like, so they will not protest tyranny and actually enjoy working in hazardous works until the day they die? And what for? What would be the meaning of those that had it all in hand? 100% efficiency? And then what? I'm gettin some very strong 1984 Sci-Fi Boogaloo vibes here.

[@timkbirchico8542]

Perhaps civilisations such as ours, having taken the wrong technological trajectory are inevitably short lived, maybe 2 or 300 years. Reference to to scifi is fun but we have just about come to the end part of our species as our planets temperature increases to the point where organics will become rare, , it will take 5 million years for species diversity to begin, 10 million years before full species diversity is reached. 2 or 300 years of grunt technology is unobservable in relation to space time.

[@anthonyhutchins2300]

Even that is impossible... People would be fighting for that power of modification. Then not only that but people would disagree on how to use it.

[@The_Keeper]

@@anthonyhutchins2300 That is a good thing, it will motivate us to GTFO from this planet.

[@planescaped]

Humans can become immortal cybernetically augmented space whales subsisting on photosynthesis in the vacuum of space and great video games.

[@buckystanton9139]

we are not "bound" to urges, its a factor but there are few employed anthropologist who genuinely believe in a thing called "human nature" or some "essential" human quality. We are literally already grappling with this question. Right now. And have been since we became conscious.

[@htos1av]

Us: "Where is everyone?" Aliens: "Shhhhhhhhh, don't wake the baby."

[@ironhead9507]

I've always thought that if there's beings advanced enough to get here we wouldn't know unless they wanted us to

[@mitchwilson1969]

Not a bad assumption.

[@100percentSNAFU]

Or unless we wake up when they are anal probing us.

[@Skirk84]

@@100percentSNAFU im sick of that happening. Why are they so interested in my colon

[@camielkotte]

Maybe they are here but are to small to contact us.

[@RpattoYT]

"unless -they- _it_ wanted us to" If it were a they, some of them would surely disagree and seek to make contact, whilst some others would oppose it.

[@alchobum]

Its good to see ideas beyond "advancing" = "consuming more energy". We see even here on Earth that advanced as easily translates into less energy. Example: lamp oil > incandescent light > fluorescent light > LED. Advancement often means increases in efficiency on every level.

[@VidkunQL]

We are producing much more light now with LEDs than we did when we were burning whale oil, beeswax and tallow. An increase in _efficiency_ (which must be defined carefully) does not mean a reduction in total energy use.

[@herrschmidt5477]

total energy use is still skyrocketing. More and more people use PCs and especially smartphones, more people travel, we're generally WAY MORE humans than ever and so on

[@CristinaG]

But will it explain why the programmers of the Matrix uploaded a crappy 2020 update which is full of bugs, errors, and system crashes..? We need a patch released to fix the 2020 update, 6 months left of the year and it is crazy already!!

[@MrKillswitch88]

The cluster suck of 2020 is just getting started and I am dreading the election as that will bring on another wave of riots then there is the early winter this year as there has been some freaky weather coupled with lower than normal temperatures in some areas.

[@eddieburnstein5926]

I need that patch quickly, else I want off this planet on the next UFO, if i get abducted i will be sure to say to not take me home lol

[@john9982]

Its probably a MAC problem!

[@matta5498]

I just want the cheat codes.

[@peterhewitt6006]

Come on wonderful person Anton, crash the Matrix and fix it so we can all be a part of the ET community instead of a quarantine on our solar system!!

[@WolfgangFeist]

Thanks, Anton, that was about time. The Cardashev scale was heavily biased towards the heavy industry phase humankind had been in when the scale was designed. But, in a rational future (for our survival) "...all will be just very efficient"

[@janerishbaluca1529]

This is the most chill and yet the best video on this topic that I have watched so far. Very well done! I'd say that in addition to what that paper proposes, maybe as we (and other civilizations) learn to better ourselves, we cease to find importance in concepts such as conquest and expansion. Maybe there are values and concepts out there we have yet to conceive in our currently limited thinking machines. These new concepts and values might then directly influence our courses of actions and thus, our detectability(?) to other civilizations.

[@elguinolo7358]

Keep up with the Kardasheev scale.

[@S6261]

Do it

[@matthewdoiron9696]

That should be Anton's side vlog name!

[@adlockhungry304]

Keeping up with the Kardasheevs

[@custos3249]

No. Every time you mention it, it grows in strength like Freddy Kruger.

[@DutchBane]

I dont get the joke

[@mugwump7049]

"The Kardashian scale, the scale of extra-terrestrial stupidity." You definitely missed an opportunity here, Anton!

[@thedudegrowsfood284]

measured in Jenner Units

[@DFPercush]

2. A measure of how many people can fit in orbit around the posterior mass.

[@AbrahamMeat]

It measures how many stupid people care about what you do.

[@awsumguy-bh9pz]

house flies are rank 69420 on the kardashian scale.

[@melangellatc1718]

Trumps...

[@ellisonhamilton3322]

Humankind may be UNIQUE in the universe, but humankind is not ALONE in the universe. There are bound to be countless civilizations out there. ABSCENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSCENCE. Dr. Carl Sagen. (I've been " corrected ". The quote is rightly attributed to Dr. Martin Rees.) Thanks Anton. 🇺🇸❤🇺🇸

[@pressaltf4forfreevbucks179]

Carl Sagan also said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

[@ellisonhamilton3322]

@@pressaltf4forfreevbucks179 True. However, we are just beginning down the road of science and therefore the ability to detect. Where science is concerned we've only just placed our feet upon the road. The evidence will come. It's inevitable.

[@joeteicher]

Doesn't seem too likely given the evidence we have so far.

[@blazedgamingkr1438]

to reference a few comments..... We just haven't discovered the correct evidence. Most people still cannot fathom the size of the observable universe. Every human alive and every human ever born could start counting the stars in the observable universe and they would all die before they were all counted. Advanced civilizations may even be communicating using methods we have yet to discover, hence why we have not "heard" anything. To state "we are alone" is extremely arrogant. Especially if a civilization is so advanced that they can stay "quiet" on the galactic "CB radio". If we were smart, we would keep our radio signature to a minimum, because if humans are any example of what civilizations will do to unexplored territory.... We could be in big trouble if they find us first, assuming they haven't already discovered us.

[@wilkatis]

The way I see it: - Universe is rather young. It took time to develop first stars, and then get enough heavy elements out of them to start creating solar systems broadly similar to ours. And then, of course, the system itself has to form over billions of years. According to our estimations Sun has literally been around for a whole 1/3 of the entire time this universe has existed. We are early birds in this race - Keep in mind distances & speeds involved: - Detecting them now would require them advancing way faster than we did. Why would they? Why not the same speed? Why not slower? - The only example we have is "us". Lets say there's a perfect copy of our civilization out there. Literally 1:1, everything happening here happens there. How far are they? - 46ly? That's how far our "earliest" interstellar message has traveled since we sent it - 60ly? Haven't even sent a manned mission into the space - 80ly? There aren't any space-capable vehicles (like V2 rocket) at all - 140ly? Electricity isn't even commonly available thing among the common people - And these distances are ridiculously small compared to the hundreds and thousands of lys we're typically talking of. Of course we can't see anyone, it would be incredible statistical anomaly if we could.

[@VidkunQL]

Hold on. 1) Even a race that could alter its biological form at will, live in vacuum, transform a planet's entire lithosphere into thinking matter, and so on, would still find the power of a Dyson sphere useful. 2) A Dyson sphere must still obey the laws of thermodynamics. It gives off just as much power as the star it contains, but in the form of waste heat. So its external temperature must be significantly above the galactic background temperature, or about 1000 times cooler than a star like our sun, which means it must have a surface area 1000^4 times greater, which means a radius a million times greater than the star which makes it about _three orders of magnitude_ bigger than the biggest star we know, and visible in infrared. And even if we make it less efficient (that is, smaller and hotter), it still looks like a ludicrously large, cool star (maybe a Brown Hypergiant), which we could detect and haven't, and which we would certainly notice because it would break most of what we know about stars.

[@unf3z4nt]

Question is would this civilization's energy requirement is high enough to cover an entire star with a swarm of satellites dense enough to mask an entire star.

[@paavobergmann4920]

1) Why? I don´t see the necessity of this argument 2) yes. Never thought about that that way, but yes. Everything becomes heat at some point, and that has to go somewhere, so we should see star-strong infrared sources with no visible equivalent in the locations of Dyson spheres.

[@nathangamble125]

Not _all_ of the energy ends up as waste heat (or at least, it doesn't necessarily end up as waste heat in the vicinity of where the energy was harvested). Presumably if an alien species is advanced enough to build a dyson sphere, they're advanced enough to make it reasonably efficient, and to be able to store or transmit the energy to the surface of a planet. There would be some waste heat for sure, but it could hypothetically be just a couple of percent of the total usable energy output.

[@VidkunQL]

@@nathangamble125 The only way to _store_ a large part of that energy on an ongoing basis would be large-scale generation of mass (e.g. by manufacturing matter and anti-matter), and such processes are very inefficient, not because of primitive engineering but because of _fundamental thermodynamic limits._ Light from a star has far, _far_ more entropy than an equivalent amount of energy in material form, and you can't just delete it. (As for transmitting the energy to the surface of a planet, I invite you to calculate how long it would take to vaporize the Earth that way.)

[@Foxtrop13]

they will be so invisible that we will call them dark matter

[@lightsab4675]

Dark matter isn't really invisible

[@TheExoplanetsChannel]

:O

[@Angl0sax0nknight]

I wonder if dark matter is just other dimensional matter. Cut it up into 5-6 extras dimensions and it gets pretty close to our universe Baryon matter.

[@pianoraves]

@Anirban Chakrabarti Say that in maths

[@mugwump7049]

@@Angl0sax0nknight IIRC, PBS Spacetime explored this idea in an episode.

[@justanotheroglesby2847]

One of these times you need to throw everyone off and just say hello silly goofballs.

[@andrewsercer9538]

Hello silly goofballs! Oh, you mean Anton say that ... ok

[@user-vh9im5rj8r]

@@andrewsercer9538 Hello goofy sillyball

[@ETAisNOW-wn8wx]

What if he open up with "what it do my wonderful n***as!?"

[@mattmichaels5195]

Hello evil inanimate objects

[@Nick-hv8gj]

I've always hoped that just once, he'd start the show with messed up hair, sunglasses on very crooked, shirt collar up on one side and a cigarette hanging out of his mouth... and just stare at the camera for about 20 to 30 seconds, then finally say, while slurring his words almost to the point of not being able to understand him, "Herlow... personful wonders.. Toda.. to-daaa" then fall straight backwards (without getting hurt, of course). That, I would love to see.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

I don't know, it is an interesting idea, however, that assumes every alien race would do that. all it takes is one alien civilization that expands outward and grows, for the hidden aliens to no longer keep us from seeing any alien civilizations at all. ("Hidden Aliens" by Isaac Arthur as a ref) an interesting twist on the civilization scale tho, almost akin to the green500 vs the compute power scale of the top500.

[@RpattoYT]

As I think as Isaac proposed. Even if some are "hidden" were are the non-hidden overt aliens? If you have even one example, you have to contend with either there is but one hidden race of aliens or many and non have ever slipped up or there's simply no overt aliens. What is it Isaac would say "that's a tall order"

[@timkbirchico8542]

Perhaps humans are very different to other intelligent organics.

[@Quotheraving]

The idea that ETC's exponentiate in terms of population is one of the assumptions made by the K scale and it's easy to disprove both logically and observationally. 1. Among the factors that mark the stability of a Civilisation is a capacity for self moderation, cohesion and a long view of history. 2. This stability is a necessary prerequisite for a Civilisation to develop to the point at which interstellar travel is viable. 3. Due to the distances and timescales involved any race that expands beyond it's parent star is likely creating another competing civilisation/species. 4. Since expansion entails a loss of cohesion and the potential creation of a competitor species it necessarily threatens the survival of the original species. 5. Therefore Civilisations advanced enough for interstellar travel are highly disincentivised from doing so unless it is as an en-masse migration to avoid a supernova. In terms of observed reality exponential ETCs fall foul of the Fermi paradox, being that since there has been sufficient time for numerous ETCs to have both evolved and populated the entire milky way galaxy ... where are they?! Furthermore if the universe is mainly populated by highly advanced species that prefer to remain in cohesive cultures, aren't reliant on a specific planetary environment and are essentially indistinguishable from their environment (Dreaming dust) it is unlikely that they would react well to encroachments from less mature civilisations intent on using up any and every available resource.. At best they would restrain and retrain these insane interlopers, at worst they would treat them like mad dogs.

[@timkbirchico8542]

A list of human presumptions on the nature of the universe is redundant in relation to this organic technology concept. Perhaps civilisations that take the same trajectory as humans inevitably are short lived. A tiny 2 or 3 hundred years maybe. That short period of time with radio etc would be almost invisible to observers.

[@TonboIV]

@@Quotheraving Civilizations fail if they expand beyond what their environment can support. We've effectively expanded past the point that Earth can support all of us with present technology, but the solar system and the galaxy aren't even remotely the same. The sun has a huge energy output, and not even a percent of a percent reaches Earth or any planet. Most is lost into infinity. Why would any race that could change that situation allow it to continue? Even if somehow they never increase their population in billions of years (which I think is very unlikely and a ridiculous assumption to make for every civilization) they'd at least want to stockpile that energy for later instead of letting it out into space. Cultural cohesion is not a problem across a dyson swarm with a communication time lag of hours at most. As for other stars, with enough effort and time, you could move them closer together, or just take them apart and use the material to expand your civilization where you are, or save it to be used later for energy. If a star is just left out there, all that mater turns into photons flying into infinity, or stuck in some stellar remnant that's hard to extract anything from. From a perspective of resource conservation, the present universe is like a forest fire, consuming vast amounts of fuel very quick to produce energy that just gets dumped into space. Anyone who could would want to put out those fires, and save all that material to be used in a more controlled and efficient way.

[@AMB1894]

Your videos are great Anton - I love that you translate scientific papers into language the rest of us understand and give us the main points. Re SETI I’ve always wondered why the emphasis is on detecting radio waves when we ourselves have only used these a tiny portion of human history and will probably abandon this for something better soon. Also it presumes sound and similar waves are necessarily used by other civilisations whereas they may have always relied on some other type of communication and may never have possessed technologies that relied on or produced radio waves

[@malkbeth1]

Very very good video. More like that please. I love when you speak about theories and my favorite are the new ones of course.

[@fernbedek6302]

Considering they make houses and canals and everything, do beavers count as a class 1?

[@alexnaturalis1179]

Bees and hives, ants and colonies, birds and nests......

[@mitchwilson1969]

No. Humans are not even type 1 yet. We would be type 0. A type 1 civilization controls the entire planet. Humans are almost there. Edit: sorry i see what you mean now that I've watched more of the video :) Class 1 is different than type 1.

[@kirknay]

I can see that to an extent. They might be a 0.8 or 0.9 though, if current humans at y2k CE is the benchmark.

[@WaterShowsProd]

Beavers alter their environment quite a lot, perhaps second only to humans, though not as widespread. Tool use and even tool-making has been observed and well documented in primates other than humans as well as some bird species.

[@petertaysum8947]

Elephants modify their environment, slowly changing light forest to grassland, and back again, and ants using aphids to process plant material. Does it involve "will" or is it the fumbling of blind watchmaking?

[@suagy7492]

Well at least someone calls me wonderful :(

[@harmlesscreationsofthegree1248]

Suagy I think you are wonderful too

[@Alexagrigorieff]

At distances 100+ light years, transmission of a single bit (detection of signal presence) requires billions Joules of energy. Length of such signal should be within coherency length - when Doppler effect don't change its detected frequency. Transmission over thousand light years requires even more. Also, noise from their star masks the transmission.

[@exorias625]

Its pretty much stupid to use normal means of communications to me seeing that it takes upwards of 45 mins to get a message to mars(at its farthest from earth) Ive heard people suggest quantum entanglement where particles affects others where if we perfect it we could communicate anywhere almost instantly (😅Might need a lot of correcting on this topic)

[@ksp-crafter5907]

@teraflopidial anusoid Could you name a few "crispy" examples please?😊

[@Restrocket]

@teraflopidial anusoid magic do not exist

[@radaro.9682]

@teraflopidial anusoid This is based on what evidence? So ether you need so far fictitious tech or light speed limited tech. And since travel is slower then messages I'd assume it's be better then sending live people. What theories or papers have you been reading and what have missed if there are other accessable "layers" to reality?

[@radaro.9682]

@ Diamond isn't strong. It's hard. I can powder diamond with a hammer I just can't scratch any particular piece. Slight difference. Steel is stronger then diamonds. Hell, my bones are stronger then diamonds. I've hit my thumb with a hammer and it didn't break. Blood blister but no breaks. Do you mean we will eventually be able to construct carbon nanotubes?

[@Kainlarsen]

Anton, Clarke didn't say it would be indistinguishable from nature, he said magic.

[@ChuckUFarley90]

More specifically: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Magic." But I like this variant: "Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from God."

[@FiferSkipper]

Class 0 = Animals Class 1 = Humans Class 3 = Jedi Knight

[@ortherner]

ok

[@rvaughan74]

I'd still expect a Dyson Swarm out there somewhere just for the sheer amount of living space one provides.

[@kerbodynamicx472]

TheSeventyFour what about the fact that galaxies seems to have far more mass than observed. Maybe they’re just stars enclosed in Dyson structures.

[@f4ptr989]

What if they become like the geth, and while there are physical bodies one can use, the vast and overwhelming majority choose to live within a digital space thus taking less room?

[@honeybadger9425]

If a civ has the tech to live near a star they have the tech to build much better solar panels/tech from much further away. Unless they are prolonging the stars life somehow i dont see any use building that close to a star vs how difficult it would be to do.

[@Oddness]

@@honeybadger9425 The reason is simple: volume. The goal is to harvest as much energy off the star as possible. The further out you build, the larger the swarm you will require to harvest the star's light. In the interest of conserving resources, you would want to construct the swarm as near to the star as technically feasible. Does it really matter if you have the total power of a star? Not really. You could get away with all kinds of inefficient processes, but... Waste not want not.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

A Dyson swarm with huge living space will always fail for lack of materials. There is just not enough solid planetary material to get the job done.

[@constantinvaldor1498]

Hello wonderful Anton this is person!

[@MrSurferDoug]

We are the loud humans in the forest. Hopefully, there is not a hungry quiet lion out there. - great video

[@will2see]

Very nice video, Anton. When it comes to life, we simply do not know what to expect.

[@atimholt]

An explanation that requires an entire population to act the same way and value the same things is never sensible. The idea of greater energy consumption is that those unwilling to harness more energy cannot prevent the exponential spread of those who are, even if such a group starts small and only occurs vanishingly rarely. This also requires *every single individual in every single alien civilization ever* to not want to build astronomical megaprojects. Technological advancement is the continual improvement of the levers one can use to move the world. Deciding not to build such levers isn't even a *cultural* phenomenon, it's inherently political, because there's no way it wouldn't require enforcement (with perfect success on *geological* time scales, mind you!)

[@DFPercush]

On the contrary, I don't think an individual or small group would be able to pull something like that off without the support of the society at large. Projects like that require a huge degree of cooperation.

[@pgibsonorg]

It is likely that consumption does not scale. We consume unsustainable quantities of energy at this moment and it is possible that there is no scaling beyond what we consume today.

[@anthonyhutchins2300]

Its literally impossible... A species will always continuously evolve. That said there's no chance fighting, war, and disagreements will ever stop no matter how advanced the group is.

[@The_Keeper]

@@anthonyhutchins2300 Hello, I would like to introduce you to the concept of the Hive mind...

[@rtbeerzi]

not every being needs to at first: 51% In favor will turn unto 100% if everybody is playing the game let's say. If we all want positive outcomes, we'll settle our differences and lose once and a while for greater peace, something all other animals do just fine but we suck at. Possibly safe to say we're an astronomical anomalie? where the species in question is either, dead, because they couldn't agree to disagree and went to war with itself, alive, but in tune with itself and it's environment so it has no purpose to go very far, or waste excess energy, might be reasonable to just live on the planet and never leave. Why leave if everything is okay? As a space lover myself I hate to admit it but the space age wasn't about anything but pride and competition. Today it's different but there was never actually a human desire to explore space like we imagine, maybe for the astronauts and those at home. But until Space X, the people that made the rockets just wanted to be better at something. So aliens either are; Dead, in total war, tribal, or content. The chances of a self aware species within 100 light years I think is way higher than we think, but the chances of a civilization teetering on its own madness on the line of chaos and order; our specific physiology and psychology is so rare, I don't think we'll ever meet anything quite like us, ever. There is only 1 human race, and to that effect, we'll forever be alone. That's the answer to the fermi paradox. We have philosphy, aliens probably don't. Humans can agree to disagree, Aliens probably can't. There is some work to be refined here, but the point is across. Every solution to the fermi paradox is real, The zoo hypothesis, first born, maybe it's all of them at the same time in some puzzly way

[@sailinbob11]

It's all about time. Anywhere in the universe, over 13.8 billion years,civilizations could have come,and gone. Entire solar systems wiped out, and there wouldn't be any trace. Like walking around a corner 1 minute before someone you haven't seen in years. 1 minute,and you would have met. Time,and spin,are key to our universe. Everything spins,and time keeps ticking. Even if we receive a signal, the civilization that sent it, could be gone,or moved to a different place in the galaxy where we couldn't find em,even if we hear them.

[@Mephistahpheles]

They advance to the point where they decide, "We'd all be better off if we were dolphins."

[@sailinbob11]

@entete flock fact

[@hygri]

I'm glad I watched to the end... Nice one Anton. My brain/ears/mouth had the same hangup :)

[@andrewsercer9538]

yeah, I was browsing the comments by about the last minute of the video, so when he started talking again I was like "wait, what? Did the video re-start someh............ oh ... Ok, I get it"

[@johngeier8692]

Primitive unicellular level life is likely common in the galaxy and advanced civilisations capable of space exploration are likely extremely rare. Are RNA and DNA the only self replicating molecules which can form the basis of life? The Webb space telescope will be able to detect life signatures in the atmospheres of nearby exoplanets.

[@yoshikhurazi1769]

Yes and the nice thing is that we will be able to confirm those findings with our field exobiologists by the time it is finally launched into orbit. I hope this comment dates poorly.

[@anthonyhutchins2300]

I can't wait for that dam telescope lol

[@d1agram4]

They put too much money into it and delayed it too much. It is doomed to fail. Should have built 2

[@neptunethemystic]

Great video. It sounds like a much more elegant hypothesis than the Kardashev Scale. I always thought the idea of Dyson Spheres is like people in the 1800s imagining wooden space stations.

[@Walter-wo5sz]

Maybe SETI should send the message "First".

[@MichaelPiz]

I see what you did there... ;)

[@TheBorderRyker]

🤣👌🏻

[@ImmortalJeb]

Lol 😆

[@ortherner]

First Civilzation

[@timgove5337]

It’s supposed to be intelligent tho, so...

[@laurachapple6795]

While the Kardashev scale measures how advanced a civilization is, the Kardashian scale measures how much drama they cause. We're a Kardashev Type 1 but a Kardashian Type 3, maybe Type 4 in 2020.

[@dannydetonator]

Anton would be a good representative once we get a contact with some wonderful(?) extraterrestrials, certainly.

[@tachyonicnewt2473]

Or Isaac Arthur, ideally both.

[@Someone-cj4np]

If aliens are also "wonderful person"

[@Orinslayer]

"Hello Wonderful person, welcome to Human space."

[@dannydetonator]

@@tachyonicnewt2473 That crossed my mind too.. Unfortunately, they'd choose someone, ehm, you know. Imagine Mr. Trump getting the honors...

[@THECASHVAN]

Thank you for this video. the fermi paradox is my favorite topic. A new way to look at the ranks of our evolution is exactly what we needed.

[@MajorTomFisher]

Maybe the message is just getting lost in translation with Anton interpreting it for us, but I feel like this scale makes no sense. Stage 1: you have a sentient species that uses tools, okay Stage 2: species gains control over genetics using tools, alright Stage 3: species becomes omnipotent hyper-being, wait... What? I feel like the question of motive needs to be asked here. Granted alien cultures are likely going to be as wildly different from ours as Earth's own cultures are, but how many cultures are there that would seek absolute integration with the environment? In addition to that, it would seem the goal of environmental integration would hinder the needed technological progress to achieve this level of integration. Of course this scale also assumes that such integration is even possible, which seems highly unlikely if we're working with organic beings here.

[@Stucknthe80z]

I think it may be eccentric to assume that alien civilizations would develop as we have. It may not be life as we know, their technology may be beyond our comprehension

[@seanrodgers1839]

How do you start developing technology from nothing without progressing from basic to complex, then to advanced? You have to produce metals from rocks first, that process is by laws of physics that are the same everywhere. Therefore the process is the same to do it everywhere. Without a planet that rotates, has a moon to stabilise it, has a metal rich crust, and many more conditions, you will never develop life, let alone technology.

[@Idazmi7]

@@seanrodgers1839 Imagine, if you will, a sapient colony of fungi.

[@coombscharlie]

Are you sure this solves the Fermi paradox? If 99 out of a 100 intelligent species follow the qualitative route, and only 1 out of 100 follows the quantitative route and hence scores on the Kardeshev scale, doesn't that mean that there should still be an awful lot of civilisations doing stuff that we could see?

[@mikeharrington5593]

I think it's probably more like phases of: (1) belief in a god, (2) creating a god (3) becoming a god

[@paavobergmann4920]

Maybe it´s just technically impossible to advance on the Kardashev scale. There might not be enough ressources in the solar system to actually leave it in a meaningful way with a certain destination, not even to Proxima Centauri.

[@HiroNguy]

I contend that by one definition of the "Clarke-Petrov Scale" we are already Type 2. We harnessed fire and made utensils, thereby allowing a different evolution of our jaws. Teeth, and digestive tracts. We invented vaccines and thereby changed the evolution of our immune systems. I can go into the evopsych aspects of the kind of society we our species has made, but would rather not get too political on this channel.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

Yeah. Genetic modification doesn't necessarily involve lab coats and syringes.

[@StarfoxHUN]

I think what Type 2 requires is doing this consciously. So i mean what you meant wasnt a "planned" change, but it happened that way, our body just got used to how we live. And also i think it means more like mutation than evolution.

[@gewitterhund3164]

@@DonVigaDeFierro But it needs the intention. Progress by accident doesn't really count.

[@Angl0sax0nknight]

Unlike OTHER channels. Science channels pushing a political ideology is horrible.

[@kirknay]

@@Angl0sax0nknight Sometimes it's hard to stay apolitical when a specific main line of politics calls what you research Satan's work, or claims you kill babies.

[@RemmelttenNapel]

Simply ... WOW! I really like this explanation. Thank you & good job 💖

[@Epiousios18]

"completely integrated with their environment" hmmm. Makes me think of the movie Arrival and the ideas that film deals with. I think the answer to the Fermi paradox is becoming more obvious as the Internet/technological revolution has progressed.

[@Patrickisat]

How can we expect to see advanced life... since it takes thousands of years for radio emissions to get here... thats a great explanation... we are looking further and further back in time.

[@RpattoYT]

Ok, so we can't see anything happening right now, but why couldn't something have existed long enough and close enough that the light would have already arrived and be obvious. Surely enough time has already passed since we exist, or perhaps we're super early and among the first or even the very first.

[@lFURTIVOl]

@@RpattoYT That is an arrogant assumption, as Humans we only have like +/-100 years using radio telescopes. 100 Years is nothing compared to the age of the universe, and that means we are barely scanning the universe.

[@psyberklown3434]

@@lFURTIVOl Thank you, to assume we know anything definitely about the Universe is ridiculous.

[@maxkronader5225]

@Avardenth That's making the underlying assumption that other inhabited planets operate on the same timeline. There's no reason to believe that. Many stars formed earlier than our sun. Even in a case with the same timeline, there's no reason to think things would have followed the same path. The Earth has been hit with multiple mass extinction events. Depending on which school of thought you believe, this either retarded or advanced the rate of evolution here. There's no reason to think a duplicate set of mass extinctions occurred elsewhere. The point is, the tremendous age of the universe, and the wide variety of the ages of the stars within it, means that we have no idea when or if any potential neighboring planets held civilizations which use/used radio emissions for communication. All that being said however, it's highly unlikely that anybody is out there within detectable range, because even if they no longer used radio based communication, we'd see them by some other means (ie detecting anything at all that was clearly artificial) and we do not.

[@CDLightt]

@@maxkronader5225 what do you consider "detactable range" and what do you mean exactly by "anything at all that is clearly artificial"?

[@pianoraves]

Imagine being advanced enough to lick your elbow

[@Tschudenizer]

Hihihi.

[@GraveyardTricks]

Aliens just read this and said "yeah, we're never talking to this guy"

[@XtianApi]

Damn you. Why did you make me do that.

[@lairdhaynes1986]

Gene Simmons?

[@georgewbushcenterforintell147]

Kinda fun thanks

[@brandonfeltman7429]

i had this theory that planets themselves and entire ecosystems might be these types of advanced lifeforms. it raises the question of what an advanced civilization would look like. there seems to be a few different possibilities like maybe these "one with nature" types, or the types like us that build "big" and very "present and apparent" like big ships that travel at light or faster speeds. or big space stations and structures. if i had to guess, id say that both types exist, as well as maybe an unlimited number of different variations. chances are, we wont be able to communicate with a lot of the civilizations for a very long time. and the ones we do see might be more like us..which could be good or bad depending on their nature and temperament. i hope we discover something like that in my life time.

[@engelheim457]

Life is unique, for what we know. We are the perfect blend between nature and an inteligent concience. Maybe we are the evidence, the creation left by an avanced civilization.

[@jinkzava]

Engelheim i totally agree

[@RpattoYT]

Life as know it consumes energy and emits heat, at what point does a one with nature alien just become as lifeless as an alien rock? Sure you can get alien rocks, but is that really the bar we're setting for what constitutes alien life.

[@Robnoxious77]

I like dolphins. dolphins are potentialy as intellectual as us. But they dont need to build better power sources or more efficient transport. If the water gets cold, they just swim somewhere warmer. I think they have a better handle on existence than we do.

[@uK8cvPAq]

@@Robnoxious77 Aren't Dolphins also the only other animal which feels sexual pleasure? Makes you wonder what made sex feel good in the first place, what evolutionary switch triggered it.

[@mattyounce2486]

Einstein said “there has to be something we can be in a position to assume about some other time, something of which we have no record,” etc; this new take on Fermi paradox is in my opinion a broad approach to the classification philosophy. Pure thought:)

[@SuperWhygee]

I always thought Kardashev scale is nuts because of the quantitative aspect of new technology. Very simple example: lights. Moving from incandescent to LED is a major breakthrough in efficiency, reliability and cost-effectiveness. And because it's so much more efficient in energy requirements - both to produce and use - this leap forward actually brings is back down further from stage 1 on the K-scale. This is true of almost everything, since almost everything trends toward energy efficiency with development.

So, in the end, when we merge with the environment and... ourselves... we will be able to "see" and "understand" all the civilizations in the universe, because the universe itself is an environment and, then, each of us will be a wonderful person in fact. Amazing considerations!!!! And... like you said at the end of the end, in the beginning of the video I did understand "Kardashians scale" when you said that first time and then I said to myself "Wtf?!? Uh... ok... Kardashev's scale..."

[@GuidetteExpert]

Yea looking also how humans behave and their ability to think. Also the feel embedded feeling of purpose and fulfilment on leaving good before we die.. Also the ability in being aware of us on planet earth in a human body because of a higher power. This will make us understand how God taughts & persionality are on how he wanted to formulait us!

[@EventHorizon31]

The is the best video on this subject I think I've ever seen. It makes so much sense.

[@archuna11]

What if the aliens are just social distancing from us

[@terryendicott2939]

What if they have us in quarantine and we just do not know it?

[@MrKillswitch88]

Exactly as we are not really a great species given our violent and backward nature.

[@grymhild]

Given how superstitious and violent we are, I wouldn't blame them

[@MrBassbump]

I don't blame them if they are.

[@change8606]

probably they are watching and wondering why everybody is pretending to like it, even though not everybody is benefiting...

[@uncluckable6535]

So glad I left the video on until the very very end. Thank you for that. I was thinking it the whole time.

[@kravenofspider]

Reminds me of the A.I. quote that if a computer can pass a turing test, then it is clever enough not to.

[@carnaldesangre]

Should we look for things that look "too" natural then? Look at places that seem to fit their surroundings very well, in which change is slow and stable.

[@keeganshulista1446]

Classifying things as natural vs manmade is weird when you consider that mankind itself is just an extremely rare runaway chemical reaction that started 100s of millions of years ago.

[@stewartsavage1123]

That's assumed not confirmed

[@The_Keeper]

@@stewartsavage1123 All *but* confirmed. The only reason it isn't considered confirmed is because we, obviously, weren't there it observe it directly. Don't tell me you're one of those "god did it" fools.

[@spen1057]

@@The_Keeper as a not religious person, you are as big as a fool to say god didn't create us as if you were to say god did. The lack of evidence means they are equally as likely. You just have a shallow idea of what a god could be. It could be a higher dimensional power scientifically speaking.

[@planescaped]

@@spen1057 This is the direction I eventually see religion taking.... because we've learned enough already to completely disprove all earth religions. They're all too archaic and simple. But people will need new ones. I propose we start worshiping gravity, it binds, shapes and creates everything in the universe. And on a cosmic level it is basically magic. :P

[@masterpopeyoda3290]

no its not.

[@L0R3N23]

At a glance I definitely read Kardashev as “Kardashian” and I was soo distraught thinking that they’ve taken over another planet but not at all surprised 😂

[@TechnoMinarchist]

Have you heard of the Cardassians?

[@frogface66]

The novel Star maker by Olaf Stapledon addressed this subject in an awesome book from 1937.

[@Great_America]

Gene Roddenberry already knew this in the 1960s and most like earlier in his life. The ideology of Star Trek was based primarily on how the human race was able to improve upon itself, overcome its differences, and join together to explore the Galaxy. Such an amazing vision. Sadly, there is so much hate and divisiveness in the world today that I believe we are literally hundreds of years from achieving those goals.

[@thedoruk6324]

So in short Civilazations either 'stuck' in earlier stages, or completely Lost interest for contact, or Just simply don't create superstructures (Aside from humans being the first or the Dark Forest Theory/Prime Directive)

[@kingdmind]

I agree. Humans are mentally embedded to want bigger and better things once they get bored of what they already have, and that’s something unique that we of course haven’t seen in any other species, and is crucial to the growth if civilizations.

[@i-evi-l]

Super structures like Dyson spheres are intellectually retarded.

[@thedoruk6324]

@Broke As FK some of them *have to* exist in reality to check on their slumbering brethern One cannot entirely rely on the AI

[@planescaped]

@@i-evi-l The only real reason to create one would be to convert our star into an engine and move the solar system closer to another that has decent habitable planets. Making one just to have nebulous energy is pretty dumb though.

[@fruscht]

I really, really hope we find some proof of alien life in my lifetime.

[@TheReaper569]

Hello wonderful Anton, This is Person.

[@ZX81v2]

"Let's hope that there is intelligent life up their in space, cos theirs bugger all left down her on Earth" - Eric Idle

[@Clearlight201]

Another dimension to consider: Consciousness (mind) is not physical, and different to brain/body (hence out of body experiences etc). In Buddhist teachings for example, sentient beings exist on different planes of consciousness and those on lower planes may be barely aware or unaware of higher realms. Evolving intelligence learns to modify itself in terms of mind: more peaceful, pure, compassionate. Living beings with highly evolved consciousness may have less or even no need of physical forms, hence the physical sciences are making too big a deal of physical matter (as if non-physical "doesn't matter"). If individuals or societies reach more evolved levels of consciousness they (we) will be able to perceive and communicate with others on similar levels, but those on lower realms will have even less chance of perceiving them through physical forms or energy use - a similar outcome to the great presentation in this video.

[@finnepower]

I've been thinking this a long while. In the end we seem to want to become trees with emotions. And VR headsets.

[@dropdead234]

"A reasonable man fits himself to his surroundings, while the unreasonable man changes his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all advancement comes from unreasonable men." I'd suggest the writers of this paper may have chosen the wrong field of study.

[@noobandfriends2420]

Consider me unreasonable.

[@SikGamer70]

putting quote marks around something doesn't make it a universal truth

[@billzhao1346]

@@SikGamer70 sick burn

[@dropdead234]

@@SikGamer70 No, but it does make it A QUOTATION.

[@carpathianhermit7228]

@@SikGamer70 mans done a level philosophy

[@rule34win]

I really like this solution for the Fermi Paradox but it ultimately falls into the same issues as other solutions. Namely: life must be uniform across the Universe or Galaxy in this case. Considering we don't even agree on a common definition for life here on earth we just can't comment on anything out there. (The only unifying trait for life on earth is the need for water) It's also pretty similar to the singularity hypothesis. I would say this solution has the benefit of being very clean and simple, driven by factors we know exist like evolution, as compare to The Great Filter that has to presuppose a fair few things. It's also very poetic: "ashes to ashes, dust to dust, for dust thou art and unto dust you shall return".

[@AlmostEthical]

Great topic, Anton. The key challenges for any civilisation are robustness (survival) and suffering. It's possible that an advanced civilisation may see the impossibility of timely interstellar travel and instead travel inwards. They might digitise themselves, being almost immortal (and hyper-capable) within a virtual environment. It might be without significant suffering since there would be no need to sate animal needs. To that end, digitised aliens might base their equipment safely far underground, making them almost impossible to detect, especially if they have learned how to blend with their environments, as you discussed.

[@Festerbestertester6]

It was very good to explain this. Things like Fermi Paradox and Kardashev Scale are common technical writing subjects, so we see a multitude of KZbin videos on particular subjects. College professors, please expand your subject list so it isn't just the same common topics.

[@espinoth9913]

"Infinite diversity in infinite combinations." -Surak of Vulcan This still doesn't fully explain the absence of Kardashev-type civilizations. The evolution of culture and religion can set entire civilizations on specified courses that are extremely difficult to break from without outside influence. If there were to be an intelligent species out there that revered high tech to the point of religious fanaticism, it would be highly unlikely that they would suddenly change over to biologically melding with their surroundings. And going by sheer probability, there would certainly be dozens, hundreds, even thousands of civilizations that are variants of that basic concept within the bounds of the nearby observable universe. Though it is possible that such civilizations could reach a singularity of technology that would be functionally identical to environmental melding. The clarketech known as claytronics (and innovations branching out of it) would allow all the surroundings of the ones using that micro-scale tech to be manipulated with but a thought. A grey goo scenario, but fully controlled.

[@londonspade5896]

This is extremely interesting, I haven't come across this answer to the Fermi Paradox before. I always thought the most likely explanation is that we're simply among the first advanced civilisations due to the young age of the universe (relative to how long it will exist). I never knew Arthur C. Clarke said such a thing, I really have a lot to consider now.. Wow

[@LOUDMOUTHTYRONE]

I actually do want to be a self-sufficient cybernetic space whale. Travel across space feeding off the ice in the oort cloud.

[@paavobergmann4920]

Yup. Thanks for giving me a new ambition in life. That would be it!

[@The_Keeper]

@@paavobergmann4920 Commercial narrator: "And with nano-gene technology, you can do just that!"

[@planescaped]

Immortal cybernetic space whale... hmmm.... That sounds like a good evolutionary path to me.

[@ShionWinkler]

The main issue with, "we have managed to explain all this naturally", (even though it is at best a wild guess), is this is the "it's never aliens" fallacy. We are so determined to say it's not aliens we will just throw out wild, sometimes insane, ideas to explain what we see. I swear, if we ever do get a TV broadcast from aliens, they will bend over backwards to explain how it is a "naturally" occurring signal from a star, or something.

[@ShadowDragon-cw7wb]

This sounds like something from the backstory of a lot of SciFi series. In Halo, a race known as the Precursors got bored and simply started to study other civilizations and was speculated to have merged into the environment. In Star Wars, the Celestials were said to have eventually merged with the Force.

[@sarvenazosmani984]

We are listening for the signals from ETI only for last 50 years. May be we have to wait and listen for another 1000 years for signals.

[@MrKillswitch88]

My guess is that they would find us for the same reasons we are finding exoplanets plus signal attenuation becomes a problem.

[@patrickoleary4397]

I really like this. Thank you Anton. I have always had a problem with the Kardashev Scale, including for some of the reasons you have suggested. We cannot just assume that ET will have developed as we have - our technology, for all its sophistication, is incredibly crude. We still force objects through the atmosphere with engines. Some of the things I saw in the U.S. Navy (not as a pilot) and later did not appear to me to rely on force, but the absence of any resistance... I'm not sure how else to put it. These objects sometimes appeared to be moving as if they were moving in water... I don't know what they were. Seeing an object enter the earth's atmosphere and do a right-angle turn travelling at 10,000-odd km per hour is quite perplexing. What do we make that could survive the physical forces of such a turn? What materials (or indeed potential crew) could survive such maneuvers? Are these objects even made? At one point it almost seemed to me as if they were 'alive'. One final thought, and this has bothered me for years re: Hollywood movies and documentaries on the subject - I doubt very much that any civilization advanced enough to construct such craft (if that is what they are) would have any further use for weapons systems. Our weapons systems in turn, I believe, are a measure of our lack of maturity as a species. Thank you for your time, this post turned out to be a little longer than I intended!

[@mortkebab2849]

It doesn't resolve the FP because it requires that ALL civilizations take such a path. That contradicts our experience so far that our civilzation has indeed steadily used more energy and is able to build bigger things.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Another assumption from the fermi paradox is that an alien race would use similiar wavelengths to communicate and receive messages, like radio for instance.

[@Starmander]

This concept continues to inspire me. Thanks for making this!

[@stuart207]

Please forgive me. I speedread your thumbnail as the "kardashian" scale and I was like WTF?...

[@Drackzgull]

go back to the video and watch the blooper after the thanks to the Patreon supporters xD

[@raksh9]

The Kardashian Scale: Level 1: celebrity achieved through reality show Level 2: celebrity achieved by leaked sex tape Level 3: celebrity achieved by marrying a real celebrity (creating the Kanye-Kardashian Effect) Level 4: marketing one's own brand as a celebrity who is famous for being famous, thereby creating a recursive loop some call the KKK Complex. Some theorists state that Paris Hilton achieved these levels prior to the Kardashians, but Paris has yet to marry a real celebrity, and has largely dropped from public awareness.

[@m0rchzts4me96]

The presence of a Kardashian on a planet is a sign of devolution and an end to intelligent life. Therefore we live in a Kardashian universe.

[@stuart207]

@@Drackzgull watched and sympathised. 😂

[@TheExoplanetsChannel]

_We are _*_not alone_*

[@fnors2]

The Kardashian scale is a way to measure how much your life is like a reality tv show.

[@wabbitnred3609]

Kartrashian scale measures stupidity, named after the holder of highest level ever achieved.

[@jimthompson4132]

Good show, grasping beyond our reach, at least at the current time.

[@TheSokwe]

Such a simple idea, but a very powerful solution to the Fermi paradox.

[@Alex-02]

Wow, this is honestly insane and super interesting

[@Alex-02]

And maybe the real answer is something ”similar” that we can’t really imagine yet

[@garyolmstead1013]

There is a similar thesis in the four book series “Hyperion Cantos” (Science Fiction)

[@l-esprit_de_l-ouest]

I was looking for someone like you in the coms ! Care about the grinch and Gizeh pyramids .......

[@JojoBojob]

Yaaay! More content :)) 💖

[@doltsbane]

No matter how efficient you are, if you keep growing, your need for energy and material will eventually force you to start harnessing resources on a detectable scale. This proposal would delay detection but not prevent it.

[@MonoOne101]

This suggests that nature is perfect or at least very good at being efficient , which I don't think is all ways the case since efficiency is relative to arbitrary goals , our goals and nature tend not to all ways work well together let alone what an aliens goals may be. I suspect whatever the answer to why we can't see signs of alien life is going to be disappointing in another way from this , but then again I would be disappointed in this answer since it means they are effectively no more real to us than fairy's form our limited perspective and abilities . Though the question of why they don't trey to communicate in a way we could see is raised by this possibility since they would likely be smart enough to understand how to communicate to less advanced aliens.

[@thedyingtitan1247]

Hello wonderful people!