New Amazon facility in Ontario mistakenly discounted $13.7M

[@harpgrewal8203]

This wasn't a mistake folks. Someone got their pockets lined

[@esparda07]

Someone lied, someone gained money, taxpayers are the losers.

[@Cameron-y8j]

Backdoor deals are now coming to light...............I wonder how many millions were handed to the official who was blinded by money and didn't use their common sense and logical thinking to investigate further before going ahead. It's time the public official is named, and fired from their job.........while handed a 13.7 million dollar bill for their incompetence.

[@brandyeddie]

@@Cameron-y8j I don’t know about you but this looks so fishy to me. Doug anywhere?

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

So future taxes and employing 100’s of its citizens? Help me understand your mindset?

[@brandyeddie]

@@kennethmelnychuk9737 employing them at minimum wage, in unsafe working conditions etc., is that a benefit?

[@brandyeddie]

@@kennethmelnychuk9737 And just how many years will it take the taxpayers to pay the 13 million? When do we actually start to see any real benefits? Amazon CEO wins from day one and he hardly needs the money.

[@jamespahk9317]

how does one give a $13.7 million dollar discount "accidentally" you would think they would need pages upon pages of documents to fill out.

[@greghiggins3753]

When your buddies with Doug Ford, you don’t worry about documents

[@scottolson5498]

Seriously it's an Amazon fulfillment center. They knew what it was. Can't play stupid with multiple billion dollar project

[@patriciarobinson6081]

It's always on the taxpayers!

[@shayjohnson5830]

Someone’s received a kickback✅

[@roywarriner8441]

So they get away with fraud. The members of that tribunal need to be investigated.

[@Cameron-y8j]

This is a warehouse/cross dock.................stuff comes in from all over and then leaves shortly after. They also keep common sold items on the floor. I'm not sure what the regions definition of a warehouse it, but that is mine using common sense. My bet is the region is hurting for money, and looking to extort rich amazon to cover up their incompetence.

[@christina166]

They are probably family or friends

[@roywarriner8441]

@Cameron-y8j It wasn't incompetence on the region's part, it's corruption and misinformation on the developer's part. The region only had the information given to work with. The developer providing bogus information is fraud. That decision needs to be appealed. The developer should be facing fraud charges.

[@Cameron-y8j]

@@roywarriner8441 - This was the regions argument, in the appeal and they lost it. Clearly even the appeals court thinks otherwise. Seems the region should have done it's due diligence BEFORE simply rubber stamping the permit. But instead it was forced through by a union worker (working to rule) or (not my job to investigate), and thus now the taxpayers are paying the bill. All it takes is some common sense, logical thinking and initiative to see what was going in here..................but sadly our public sector is lacking all of the above these days, and taxpayers are paying a premium for sub-par and utterly useless staff looking to line their pockets.

[@roywarriner8441]

@Cameron-y8j I'm just going by the information given in the video, they said the information provided by the developer for the tax assessment was not accurate, but you go ahead and make up your own story.

[@ArtIsExperience]

This just gives developers an open ticket to misrepresent the project to get lower fees. Well done tribunal. Well done.

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

@@ArtIsExperience: those fees will be made up in future taxes.

[@nickyalousakis3851]

and yet it got built. i wonder if it would have been built otherwise.

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

@: the municipality will recover the “loss” through future taxes.

[@184186]

@@nickyalousakis3851 this is a tendered 'build to lease' deal. If this builder didn't build it another bidder would have

[@jakeace2830]

Id fire everyone involved in this from the region

[@F40-c4i]

I’m sure they all have pensions from tax payers.

[@RescuedogsItaly]

22 mill for a permit. Thats a crime on its own.

[@eufrosniad994]

Yea, and apparently there is an almost 14 million dollar difference between a warehouse and a fulfillment centre lol.

[@Tugela60]

It is to pay for maintenance and upgrading of services to support the property. Things like water lines, sewer systems and roads.

[@184186]

@@Tugela60 also a warehouse does not generate the volume of traffic that an Amazon Fulfillment Center does.

[@jedibane]

lol it’s fraud. There are laws

[@WizzardofOdds]

In reality all warehouses are fulfillment centres, stuff comes in and is warehoused, then it is shipped out.

[@henryp5283]

Facts

[@184186]

but not all warehouses are Amazon Fulfillment Centers. The construction of a warehouse is bare bones.. slab on grade, prefab curtain wall, two or three layer built up roof... it's like comparing a cargo van to a 40ft private coach

[@Kayak_233]

One things for certain, this was a very Fulfilling 60% discount for the Center

[@murraysheppard1153]

This is why your collective disgust at government is evident.

[@dougjones9493]

A Warehouse is used to store and the distribution of products, a fulfilment center is used to stores and the distribution of products.

[@henryp5283]

😂

[@JBrierley02]

Incompetent government that didn’t do its due diligence? Who would have thunk it?

[@yanshein4042]

Sloppy bureaucrats put more burden on taxpayers

[@scottolson5498]

Seriously it's an Amazon fulfillment center. They knew what it was. Stupid burracrat

[@rudenjasergei4478]

They lied on application, who will pay now for the broken roads around the facility?

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

@@rudenjasergei4478: the municipality through future business taxes and fuel taxes.

[@larrybethune3909]

Look up the dictionary definition of a warehouse. Stuff is shipped into and out of it. In the interim is sits on a shelf for a while. Reality bro.

[@daniel_trang]

It's not a retail store where customers have access to it. It is more like a warehouse or industrial space.

[@184186]

@@larrybethune3909 not all warehouses are Amazon Fulfillment Centers. The construction of a warehouse is bare bones.. slab on grade, prefab curtain wall, two or three layer built up roof... it's like comparing a 14ft cargo van to a 40ft private coach

[@DUARTE2408]

A warehouse and a fulfillment center are the same thing.

[@robintaylor-mockingeemill8223]

Fulfillment centre , Sounds like a modern ware house too me .

[@eufrosniad994]

yea, I would have thought they’d explain how the two were different. At least to my mind as a lay person on the topic, it is indeed a warehouse. To me it appears as if the city tried to retroactively make some more money once they found out it was Amazon and thought they might be able to charge more and Amazon will just pay.

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

Holy Shakedown, Batman…..That fulfillment centre IS a warehouse/industrial building.

[@chadlegionary3748]

Corruption isn’t a mistake.

[@mountriver1971]

That's a loophole the Amazon company uses calling it a warehouse. Let them use it as a warehouse not a distribution centre till they pay the difference with the interest.

[@eufrosniad994]

But, what is the difference? A warehouse distributes as well. It’s not like you put stuff in a warehouse and never take it out. Even if one could insist on a difference, I fail to see how it is so vastly different to the tune of almost $14 million more.

[@mountriver1971]

@eufrosniad994 Warehouses store goods for longer periods of time. Therefore, distribution centres make more money due to faster turnover times.

[@mountriver1971]

For those who do not understand the difference between a warehouse and a distribution center. Warehouses are mainly used for storing goods until they are needed. Distribution centers store goods as well as perform product mixing, cross-docking, order fulfillment, and packaging. Distribution centers have higher turnover time and, therefore, much higher profit.

[@britanyfitzgerald5061]

It’s obvious Amazon had its own “strategy” to use it at its own advantage.

[@geralddegraaf6148]

Crazy that it was already 9.1MM for an employment building, we theoretically want. How much infrastructure does it you.

[@WorldMusicMasters]

Ask the Unions that want $70/hr for sweeping staff, and $200/day pocket money.

[@sleepinggiantssister1238]

So allow it only warehouse function, then they open an outlet for distribution.

[@steinwaymodelb]

There's no practical distinction between the function of warehousing and distribution. Product in, product sorted and stored, products picked and shipped out - this is what every warehouse does everywhere.

[@cherifbar]

Nine million dollars in development charges? We are all being fleeced , individuals and corporations.

[@jstephen]

Except if you were doing the building there would be no discounts offered

[@DoG0niT]

13.7 million for development charges lol.

[@184186]

you're laughing because you're going to be stuck with the taxes for $13.0M that the development company should have paid? They pulled off the best 'bank robbery' on taxpayers I've heard in decades.

[@afungusamungus2860]

An Amazon "Fulfilment Center" IS a Warehouse.

[@b21raider27]

Taxpayer. However, Amazon fulfillment centre will a huge employment boon for the area for generations.

[@kenbland3455]

Fulfillment centre literally means warehouse lol

[@GTO1111111]

Bezos thanks the taxpayers for the new Superyacht...., but at the end of the day the building is a boon to the community and Amazon would have found another city with cheaper rates to build at.

[@dougbailey392]

You mean to tell me the region wasn’t aware Amazon wasn’t the end user? Who else than Amazon builds “ warehouses” with that many sqft.

[@frank5d289]

Exactly 👍

[@Jesusholmes64]

A fulfillment centre is a warehouse.....

[@necrozim]

But the permit is for a warehouse not a fulfilment center, so their permits are invalid. Surely? If i ask for a building permit to build a house, then shove a wallmart on top, saying well ive already paid and have a permit... id get laughed at and told to pay the correct fees for the correct permit, so whats the difference here?

[@184186]

it depends on who sits on the Ontario Land Tribunal... hopefully no one took a call from the Premier of Ontario on this one because Waterloo's taxpayers just got stiffed for $13.0M in 'real money'. Someone, somewhere is drinking champagne.

[@maxgreddy9730]

The ruling should be appealed by the city.

[@todddowney45]

SOMEONE GOT A KICKBACK JUST LIKE THE CAR INSURANCE SCHEME . ESTIMATE A $500 TO $5.000 AND $1.000 KICKBACK .FOR AJUSTER . ONLY THIS TIME SOMEONE GOT PAID FOR A LESSER BILL WITH A HEFTY BRIBE . THATS HOW IT WORKS MOST OF THE TIME . CROOKS AS USUALL

[@don-cw1yz]

Looks like a warehouse to me.

[@thomasmelanson9739]

It's a warehouse!

[@frank5d289]

Surely it didn’t cost the city over $9 Million.

[@dougow]

and noone from the region gets punished, builder emplyees get a bigger bonus this yr

[@ricke4735]

Not surprised. After all currently we have a person trained as a Business Journalist, who is the Minister of Finance for this Country and we ALL see how that is going.

[@adriandelaat2905]

It is still a warehouse. Were orders are processed

[@WildDisease72]

Bezos always gets a discount... if not, they wake up and cant walk

[@184186]

Take the development company and the principles to court for "failure to disclose" The Region should not let this slide or it becomes a precedent for future deception by development companies going forward. The land tribunal better figure this out fast or it will go viral through the entire province's applications for development and the Province will be out massive sums in the hundreds of $$Millions. I sure hope this Tribunal didn't take a call from the Premier of Ontario on this case.

[@amandarourke7645]

I agree with the region of Waterloo. Amazon developer lied on the application. They knew what they were doing and tried to pull a fast one , and won !

[@robarksey2070]

How does a distribution warehouse not make the requirements for a warehouse?

[@anotheran]

The government paper pusher could've asked. Of course, no one in government is at fault here

[@buzzgamer6543]

Accidently underbilled? Lets be real and just call it complete incompetence.

[@lapraxi]

Whoever created this mess must be held accountable from top to bottom. This is exactly why you are paying more tax and receiving less services

[@PovertyFarmGarage]

In what world does it seem logical to charge a business bringing jobs to the Region an additional $13m in Development Charges? Basing it on the difference between a warehouse and a fulfillment centre! There is no change to the “infrastructure” that constitutes a $13.7 surcharge. This is simply a tax to do business in the Region. No wonder large scale employers choose to go elsewhere.

[@kathrynoneill81]

Tribunal members: can you spell KICKBACK? Or maybe take one?

[@jerrimyseavers2887]

Who ever issued the permeant should be fired and have to pay for the difference . It some how always falls on the tax payers.

[@bobwoods1302]

Just because a mistake was made doesn't mean the builder is off the hook. Sue them

[@jstephen]

So stop giving discounts.

[@Mymumsey1]

If something fraudulent occurred, they should be able to get that money. If I made a "mistake" like that, the government would absolutely come after me for every cent I owed them.

[@mellow-jello]

Should always supply 50 upon construction and remaining 50 at its completion, with a clause for penalties for failing full disclosure. Public managers are paid too much to care.

[@hdf001]

"Mmistakenly". Sure.

[@davidjohnmiller4849]

This building , and may others like it , are complete EYE SORES ... what a waste of land

[@griffster1226]

No wonder companies are moving to the United States if that's the cost of permits. It's stupid. What would all that money pay for anyway. Political shake down. Gimme your money just because.

[@Tugela60]

It is the amortized contribution for roads water and sewage services. You have to pay that up front when doing a development. All developments have these sorts of fees from the local authority.

[@griffster1226]

@Tugela60 it still shouldn't cost that much. They still got all of those things for 9 million, so why 13 million more... because they learned the business is more profitable than they expected. So They want a bigger piece of the pie.

[@ericthur4138]

Get the difference from somewhere other than taxpayers. Hold them accountable.

[@notsunnydaysahead]

There is not accountability any more. We just pay taxes for certain demographics to prosper..

[@steinwaymodelb]

I have a hard time seeing a clear difference between a 'warehouse' and a 'distribution centre'. All warehouses are distribution facilities and all distribution facilities are warehouses. If you're going to have different rates, then it should be based on something more objective like water/sewer requirements, not inventing narrow local definitions for terms that have little to no logical distinction.

[@dnddetective]

I assume the difference is a warehouse involves at least some longer term storage, whereas a distribution center is for the logistics of getting goods to customers.

[@SimonRockwell-uu4eo]

I wonder if the dei hire was out on bail the day they made this 13 mill error

[@randolphothegreat549]

Ok bot

[@mikebean.]

No way you have to pay $20M permits just to build a warehouse, that sounds crazy

[@itissrinivasan]

They shouldn’t retroactively apply charges. Instead, they should arrest the builder for fraudulent application and charge him a fine of $13M

[@christopherguy1217]

Either the developer lied to get the discount OR the government was incompetent in failing to ask what the building was to be used for. Given the result of the tribunal it appears to be the latter.

[@billklintworth43]

The tribunal doesn’t consider the permit application should be considered invalid as it was either incorrectly applied permit or fraudulent permit application. Is the tribunal corrupt or lacking proper remedies? Or is the permit department employees for Kitchener just not qualified for their jobs. The electrical plans submitted for permit alone should be extensive for a fulfilment centre. A warehouse is barebones electrical. It sounds like the chief building examiner is at fault and owes his employer 13.7m. I say garnish his wages🤣.

[@bssw218]

Shut it down. Cut off utilities to the building.

[@BrandonRaffy]

Yes, put thousands of your own residents out of work. Big brain move, wouldn't be shocked if the folks who 'accidently' gave away 13.7 million taxpayer dollars, decided to go ahead with it! 🤤

[@jamescario2292]

@@BrandonRaffyyes, because Amazon doesn’t have the money. Keep defending corporate greed while they literally take the money out of pockets. Just remember, if you didn’t pay $1000 in taxes they’d come looking for you. They skipped out on $13,000,000, and got off scott free.

[@jamescario2292]

@@BrandonRaffy Because Amazon doesn’t have the money, I know. Keep defending corporate greed while they literally steal from the tax payer.

[@jimedge8301]

Just wait till Amazon needs local hospital,firefighter, police then you will see the reason for further expenses.

[@alextheman5668]

The rich get all the best breaks...your welcome JB😅

[@gordiehowe-ky6xt]

Developers everywhere taking notes. lol

[@canadianguy1955]

We are over run with incompetence and corruption.

[@Lally-l2n]

$22B in taxes/ fees to build a structure. This country is fuked

[@peteryeung111]

Pretty sure a bunch of lawyers and higher ups knew what was written in the application before a single stone was moved.

[@dwaynejava]

The $13 million difference is probably less than a days wages for jeff bazos. Taxpayes will probably get the bill.

[@AxelleKnows]

So, if a civilians taxes from years ago were "reassessed" and they were made to PAY for the governments mistake years later, why is this error noticed "too late" to be fixed by the developer?

[@catman19]

22 million for development charges?? Why would anyone build here?

[@AlexMcQueen-ce9tz]

Yea sure .....I was born at night not last night. we all know where the money went

[@Kenwindatt]

Someone definitely got there pockets greased.😮

[@kjw79]

Better title would be that Amazon provided false information, the discount was provided correctly to the info Amazon provided. It was just false.

[@jigneshdevganiya]

they never missed to send my utility bills with water heater rental charges

[@MetaView7]

*Which warehouse is not a fulfillment center ????*

[@Hundr_]

That reporter scolding tone 🤣

[@MetallicDec75]

That's an awful big "mistake"

[@Sidewinderguy]

Our tax dollars putting small businesses out of business. Thanks.

[@Trudope4Jail]

Do they still give inspectors pies, or do they just wire the money directly into their account?

[@bespokeoriginaldesign761]

nope if you lied or misled thats a chargeable offence. especially for amazon scamazon pay up.

[@Blahsheep]

If they lied the permit is void. So, how would they side with the developer? V

[@sheunglam9808]

Full of noobs in Canada...

[@RealG-j2q]

Incompetent government employees. What a surprise!

[@JM-Unleashed]

Now - if that's not fishy 🐟, I don't know what is.

[@LiquidLez]

I feel like a smaller buisness would not be afforded this luxury

[@marcod324]

A fulfillment centre is a warehouse - cash grab

[@acanadianfriend3722]

List there names and address

[@Sceptera]

They built the same building. Someone else would have used it as a warehouse, Amazon is using it as a fulfillment centre. So why 13 million difference to build? Does the same thing happen to housing. A rent controlled building for sale building. 400k vs 1.6 million dollars because it is stated for sale instead? SAME BUILDING.

[@petermain6791]

The outside is the same, not the inside. Way more electrical and other utilities.

[@robertdalnoki9490]

“Accidentally” . 13 million. Sweet Jesus

[@JoeBlau-c4e]

How come nobody accidentally gives me half price on my taxes! And if they did they would cm chase me for back taxes and interest.

[@BattleBard1582]

So does this mean we will get our amazon packages faster 🤣🤣.

[@StingyJ]

Welp, that sounds like a YOU problem, Amazon.

[@baba_agba]

Lol. Someone is not telling the truth. Who got his pocket lined in the transaction?

[@chachingchaching3278]

Toll road until you recoup the money