New Indian Challenger Cams alone aren't good enough? | Everything you need to know

With a Stage 2 cams, the Indian Challenger just got more aggressive. Indian Motorcycle announced today that the Indian Challenger has a Stage 2 Cam profile available which sports the new liquid-cooled PowerPlus 108. This new cam profile results in 10% more peak horsepower and 3% peak pound feet of torque to the crank compared to stock horsepower numbers. How much is the cost and whether it's worth it is a different question.
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[@DarkHorseParatrooper]

The engine DOESN'T need to get dropped. It's done with special tools while it sits in the chassis. They don't do this on any of the bikes. I'd know, I'm a tech lol. Edit: unless the tech messes up, then, then it's an 8 hour job you're not getting paid for!

[@TheSprocket]

Just going off videos that were able at the time. And the first cam swap I saw, the engine was lowered. 👍🏾

[@DarkHorseParatrooper]

@@TheSprocket to be honest I think most dealers would prefer customers to think it takes tons of work, because they can charge more. It definitely takes skill and very close attention to detail.

[@TheSprocket]

I definitely wouldn’t know 😅. I always welcome people to correct me when new information comes through.

[@DarkHorseParatrooper]

@@TheSprocket do you have another channel? I swear there's a dude looks so much like you that does motorcycle video too.

[@TheSprocket]

Maybe! 😅

[@mikelaz1328]

Subscribed. Good, concise and well put together. Good job.

[@ANONYMOUSBIKERUSA]

Stock challenger is plenty got me. Too much money for an upgraded I can’t fully take advantage of.

[@TheSprocket]

Agreed!

[@its6696]

Great channel.You just showed up in my feed,so you have a new subscriber :-) I liked the other videos I have seen as well.You are the first person I have seen do a vid on the Diavel 1260 Lambo Edition.I bought a Diavel 1260 after Harley gave me the run-around last June when I went to trade my 2018 FXBB in for a 2020 Fatbob so that video was a nice surprise.Keep up the great content.

[@toofastnobrakes]

Ide love to see Indian make a muscle cruiser with this platform. No fairing. Taller suspension for better lean angle like the race bike, and more top end HP

[@TheSprocket]

Me too!

[@harlandowens8312]

If you already have the necessary stage 1 upgrades (intake, exhaust & flash) the current install task time for Challenger cams is eight (8)-hours x $120.00 per hr. = $960 labor + $700.00 cams- Sub Total Equals $1,660.00 plus applicable taxes

[@BoyBlue7979]

I have stage 1 was the stage 2 worth it ?

[@jasonwooldridge1381]

I have a 2021 with the stage 2 intake, cams, and exhaust. Absolutely love it! I do wish they would flash the governor off of programming though.

[@dalerobertson9618]

Call loyddz in Charlotte NC they will flash your ecm and you will have more power and 140 mph

[@airtexaco]

Nice. All great points. I’d love to have all of this including the Lloydz tune. But I don’t really NEED it. So I’ll wait until I pay a few things off and have actual disposable income to do it. Stock Challenger is still an awesome machine.

[@Curtis7391-t8q]

I’m waiting for them to come out with a big bore kit for the power plus...it was originally designed as a 122

[@darcher5888]

Thanks Brandon!

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

12HP for at least 1800$ out of pocket and no consideration of labor costs yet? Uh...no thanks. TravelingTall showed that the TC comes on while full throttling it anyways, so... I dont really see the point of spending that much cash on a bike that already hits the TC limits.

[@jimmysandborn910]

Just turn it off my guy??

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

@@jimmysandborn910 TC coming on means that the limitation of acceleration is no longer in the power, but the design of the motorcycle. If you turn the traction control off and then twist the throttle hard, the tire will spin out, or wheelie, limiting acceleration.

[@jimmysandborn910]

@@FranBunnyFFXII OK My bad. Thanks for the cool reply. I appreciate the info man.

[@jimmysandborn910]

Mine was untouched stock. 4k I got cams,pipes,flash,delete and tune. O my goodness did it really come alive. It's crazy quick and it will do 130 before it's outta tach.

[@s.in.bagger9933]

Ordered my 2021 Dark Horse Challenger today....full stage 2 engine upgrades was just over $2000 not including labor. That includes cams, intake, exhaust, and tune. Labor overall was 16 hours, but that does include installation of all my other accessories.

[@TheSprocket]

Not bad.

[@timfarris8412]

I want this upgrade with the Lloyds Tune / flash. Just waiting for the 2 year warrantee to be up on her.

[@harryhowell5644]

I test rode one recently. It rode well. But like most stock motorcycles it needs tuning. It ran rough for me. Aftermarket tuners should come out for this. The ride is super, love the clutch. The bars I liked fit me good as a smaller rider.

[@jamescoppola]

I own a challenger and I love the bike but you just hit the biggest problem with all Indian motorcycles now they have an ECM that cannot be tuned!!! There’s encryption on the thing so you can’t open it up and get in there to make changes so to me this sucks it’s like a big lighter ride it and throw it away you’re not allowed to make it better!!!!

[@treesofprescott2595]

Honest. A good thing.

[@TheSprocket]

Since the OEM Stage 1 exhaust is 1K, add $300 to the Stage 2 parts. A lot of people go with after market exhaust floating around that $700 range.

[@neilbrown82]

Who gets "oem" performance exhaust tab zombie baffles with cat delete it's where it's at

[@gabrielcocco5188]

@@neilbrown82 I beg to differ, a 2-1 exhaust is where its at!

[@neilbrown82]

@@gabrielcocco5188 well yes everybody knows a two into one makes more power than a two into 2 but I was saying aftermarket is usually always better than OEM

[@DrDiff952]

Take it to a dealer that can put a LLOYDS TUNE. And let them tune it for these cams. I am not certain but I think Lloyd's can fix the speed limiter as well

[@mileslrd7881]

I just love Indian Motocycle

[@GodxMischief]

i got the lloydz garage ecu flash tune. no governor anymore.

[@amphibdriver1]

I'd rather wait for Lloyd's cams for the Challenger which will probably be released in 2021.

[@TheSprocket]

Same.

[@DarkHorseParatrooper]

Not like the guys who built this bike worked on formula 1 or moto gp or anything, they don't know what they're doing...

[@godackgudalach1]

@@DarkHorseParatrooper I agree. Lloyd's said they had cams for sturgis and here we are, still no cams or even numbers on his cams.

[@amphibdriver1]

The Indian stage 2 cams are not the same cams that the Indian Challenger uses in the Battle of the Bagger races but EPA-restrictive cams.

[@UnrulyRider]

@@amphibdriver1 Thank you, Paratrooper is sometimes a big tard....

[@KevinButler816]

BTW those are SOHC engines in the Challengers. DOHC has separate cams for exhaust and intake valves.

[@TheSprocket]

You're right. SOHC/DOHC was used together on the press releases. "DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder" it's a bit misleading. I'll clarify that more next time. 😂

[@KevinButler816]

@@TheSprocket thanks! Lol

[@jeffmcsayles397]

Would wait for the Lloyd's cams and definitely get the Lloyd'z tune which is wayyy better than Indian's

[@jimmysandborn910]

Indians cams are very mild. Needs more.

[@thecoreelementsmoto]

Bicasso that you bro? digging the channel

[@TheSprocket]

It is!

[@cbrippee]

If one goes to Lloydz Garage Facebook you will find he now has what he calls the CRT-V1 flash. Dyno results show it increasing the hp and tq up into 133 to 135 range. Huge gains and the speed limiter will be increased also though not sure what limit is. With the Indian cam those numbers go up to about 135 hp and 140 tq. Not sure what the CRT-V1 flash cost, maybe a few hundred dollars I would expect.

[@TheSprocket]

Flash is $599.

[@NWF_Rider]

Had the Lloyds flash done on my stock Challenger. Well worth the cost. I did it just to clean up some of the throttle quirks that are inherent with the Challenger. Bike is much more rideable at lower speeds and is no longer limited to 110 mph. Not sure what the top end speed is now, but it no longer stutters at 110. It was still pulling in the teens. Lloyd says it will allow you to reach the speed of the tires ratings.

[@vernlochtefeld1626]

I did a stage kit on my 19 Harley Sport Glide (softail with fairing & bags) to retain warranty. The Harley SE EPA compliant tuner only allows for 122 mph and I thought that was bad. 110 mph WTF? Anyway the only work around was a simple on/off switch for the speedo. Tach etc all work only the speedo is turned off. I’ve went 140 mph according to my phone GPS but it should push about 144 given room. This is only a stage 3 cam stock heads injectors etc and 116 WHP. I’m not brand loyal. Has to be a lot left in that Challenger. Wonder if a simple speedometer on off switch could also be cheap easy work around for the Challenger? Lol & warranty retainer.

[@mustanggang3889]

Beat me too it

[@godackgudalach1]

The Lloyd's flash does not increase power. I dont understand where people are getting this from. And the inflated dyno they use are no where near real world numbers. My challenger is 125 tq and 120 hp after cams, intake, exhaust, Lloyd's flash... I did a power pull on the same dyno went straight to Lloyd's got the flash and did 50 miles like they ask you to do and went right to the same dyno and the numbers were exactly the same.

[@tjmac1453]

I went with the Lloydz secret sauce flash. I have not put it on a dyno yet. I would love to see this video redone with the stage 2 cam and Lloydz tune.

[@jamescoppola]

I guess maybe you don’t know what a Tune is!!! What Lloyd’s is doing as a total rip off!!! Years ago with Harley you can get a flash for 50 bucks they’re not tuning anything when you get your bike Dino tune you’re allowed to change the timing the air fuel biggest thing is to get rid of the Rev limiter Floyd’s doing none of that he’s just guessing it’ll make the bike run a little better does each engine is different

[@Brentminhinnick]

​@jamescoppola that's all harley does with the screaming eagle tuner. Just a flash for the parts u put on.

[@scootterpootter]

A Challenger is limited to 110 mph?!! I test rode one, but never got near that speed, so not experienced enough to say. Just curious if that is a correct number because I have a stock Scout 60 that I've taken up to 119 mph (according to the GPS unit) and it still had a few mph left in it (I just got scared. lol) . It seems a bit weird that the new performance "big" bike would have that limit.

[@bertbrother5808]

112 mph

[@Davidthegnme]

I got the gen 1 intake and exhaust before my bike left the dealership. So the new cams will definitely be put on my bike soon. I’m just wondering if anyone has an idea of the labor cost just a general idea?

[@robertmorgan9242]

2000

[@peppermaster1189]

Is there a way to delete the speed governor on the challenger?? I feel like there is a way to delete that sucker so you can go past the stock top speed. Just like the Suzuki Hyabusa. The Busa was limited to 299kph/185mph but you could easily delete the speed limiter with a smart TRE. Not to sure about the challenger. I think you could flash the challengers ECU and ultimately delete the limiter.

[@TheSprocket]

Yes, there is a tune now from Lloydz that takes the limiter off. People want to go fast even if for a brief moment. 🤌🏾

[@dalerobertson9618]

Call loyddz in Charlotte NC They have an ecm flash and tune you won't regret it no more 110mph its 140

[@dinkydotzero]

Its not really hard to break the ECU anyway. and once in taking out Indians restrictions is a click or two

[@williamkennedy8768]

I see victory for what Polaris makes

[@jamessilba2271]

Now if we can just toss out the computer and go back to a short wire system and go 150 if need be me I prefer no limits on mph / bandit

[@christopherlococo2483]

No you are not limited to 110mph. If you use Lloyd's cams and their tune and they will raise the speed limit.

[@TheSprocket]

Yes, now. At the time when this video was created, that limiter existed. 👍🏾

[@markmarcelis]

if Indian would have built the engine with removable covers it would be a less expensive install. Im going with new exhaust, flash and rev limiter taken off. Dealer said removing the rev limiter will not void warranty. hhmmmmm?

[@TheSprocket]

I say go for it. Will wake the bike up even more. Long as the warranty is good, should be a lot of fun!

[@markmarcelis]

@@TheSprocket id love to lose the 13 pound catalytic converter too...

[@_audacerider3838]

I know this voice! Will 109R vs Vrod gonna be on here?

[@TheSprocket]

Nah. Only news and thought pieces. What voice are you referring to? 👀

[@Solelova67]

Brandon good job as always

[@DrDiff952]

The first mod you should do before throwing a leg over and start up on ANY INDIAN MOTORCYCLE IS A CAT DELETE!

[@northerniltree]

So, I'll have 10% more horsepower, but 100% less cash? Hmmm. Nope.

[@TheSprocket]

😂😂😂 When you put it that way, it never sounds good.

[@harryhowell5644]

I'm sure the aftermarket will catch up with cam kits for the challenger. But at what point is enough power? BMW crushes it with 160 hp stock

[@neilbrown82]

K1600b yea

[@windtherapy99]

K1600 only puts down like ~130HP to the wheel though. Just look up a dyno sheet for one.

[@harryhowell5644]

@@windtherapy99 yea can't trust the factory numbers

[@danielrichard9562]

I had both a K1300GT and a K1600GT. Very fun to ride. The K1600GT would hit 65MPH in first gear and not be at redline yet. Pretty damn impressive for a touring bike.

[@Hipporider]

Then there's the Triumph Rocket 3 with its 2500cc, but sadly, Triumph hasn't had the initiative to make a frame mounted fairing bagger based on the Rocket 3 ...🙄🇦🇺

[@stevenwright6573]

Brandon is that your voice in hearing?

[@TheSprocket]

Yes. 😎

[@rgbrown874]

I was thinking the same lol

[@stevenfisher3873]

You dont have to pull the motor to install these.

[@wooddawg4868]

That cam swap isn’t as significant as with a Harley Davidson.

[@Tx7sleepyjoe]

Not dual overhead cam.... single overhead cam

[@TheSprocket]

I mentioned this to someone else. Yes, a single overhead cam, but it's sometimes used as 'dual overhead cam' to represent both the cams versus two cams in one cylinder. Their press releases uses it both ways.

[@DavidSmith-fw6uj]

Indian challenger is the KING OF THE BAGGERS 👑🇺🇸👑🇺🇸👑🇺🇸👑🇺🇸 Modern American steel

[@TheSprocket]

🥳🎉

[@kencolle1]

Brandon bicasso?

[@TheSprocket]

Very possible. I've heard we have similar voices.

[@kencolle1]

@@TheSprocket 😉😎

[@MrJimmy1437]

This is a nice modification! Now that bike bike makes almost as much power as a stock 1969 750 Honda 4 !

[@UnrulyRider]

Apples to oranges comparison...

[@crimsonking2023]

Wow that expensive 😳 5k for a stage 2 smh 🤦 not worth it at all I can go get a create motor 131 from harley making 145hp amd 147tq at the wheel for 6500 with a 2 year warranty on it.

[@stevenwright6573]

Anybody know of a work around on that 110 mph governor?

[@kylestewart8354]

#231. 🤝

[@TheSprocket]

Welcome ❤️

[@phoso29]

Dayyuuuummm! A lot of $$$$ for just 10% AND stock bike is still governed. Not worth it for just street riding/crusing! Track...yes. Street...Nope. That's my opinion folks.

[@fazio3967]

Folks, I have 2020 Challenger Thunder Black Smoke Dark Horse, with the stage 2 upgrade coupled with The Lloyd'z Garage remote tune and I can Can Say I have hit 140mph on my bike, with more to give. Also, I have "heard" she can run a buck fifty five with this same set up.. Keep The Shiny Side Up, err matte, and Love Your Indian c: (wait is that racist? awwfuk'em)

[@patc8329]

Why spend the $$ if they have a governor on it..

[@TheSprocket]

Yep, it's a solid point to consider.

[@robertmorgan9242]

Will a fuelmotto flash let that happen

[@mattshaggs2931]

@@robertmorgan9242 It should...stock limiter on a Chieftain is 115 but with the FM tune in mine I break 120 on the regular

[@earlkozak6538]

Lloydz tune dumps the governor

[@TheSprocket]

now it does.

[@jimmysandborn910]

BORE KIT PLEASE. ????????

[@fragu123]

02:32 lol, in America we have big highways and that’s why we love big power…..🙄😂😆 Go to Germany and experience speed unlimited riding on a German Autobahn… those are roads for big power!

[@TheSprocket]

Lol, everywhere on the autobahn isn’t unlimited though. Still better than the US.

[@fragu123]

@@TheSprocket …obviously not but around 40% I guess…. Still enough for some proper summer night high-speed drives…

[@road_king_dude]

I'm a cruiser. If I got the Challenger, I'd just slip then slip ons on and call it good bebe.

[@UnrulyRider]

No thanks on the slip-on exhaust... maybe on a tractor tech Harley.

[@carolinarider5237]

Hell NO!

[@GraemeBlore]

Pretty clear and objective, but please do me a favour and slow down your speech a little!

[@TheSprocket]

I will next time. I try to get it in a bit faster to not drag the video out. Thanks for that critique.

[@wooddawg4868]

That engine is as good as it gets so there is no reason to do it.

[@mafosa8519]

If you can’t do your own cam swap. You should consider a goldwing!

[@DrDiff952]

They only drop the thunderstroke 111 to do a 116 install

[@kenworthw900bl]

You just voiced over indians video

[@earnestmarkham5703]

No, I wouldn't do it. Even if I had a Indian motorcycle. I ride a Honda and its fast enough for me and my woman. Go team Honda.

[@jordankovacs162]

why not just have the govenor deleted