New Kill Team Rules "OKAY?"

Today I give you my take on the pros and cons of the new Warhammer 40k Kill Team core book - the main rules. They're a bit of a mixed bag. Video about the Kill Team Compendium (with all the other armies' data sheets) will go live on the morning of Saturday the 14th.
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[@VanAleph]

You see, the shape system is well thought out and really easy to memorise: The shape with THREE corners is ONE inch. The shape with ZERO corners is TWO inches. The shape with FOUR corners is THREE inches. And the shape with FIVE corners is, you guessed it ... SIX inches!

[@nikomartinuzzi2032]

When I see an operative with a red pentagon in his weapon profile I already know it's a pistol... But I inderstand your point.

[@ToastErickson]

Losing Moral kinda makes sense thematically. These are supposed to be elite forces, hardened from either being successful grunts, or just from excellent training and will. Troops losing moral in a big battle makes sense, but having a group of a hardened elite force doesn’t thematically fit.

[@KaelBanner]

Or you know less elite guys who know they're on a possible suicide mission.

[@MrSteveyboywonder]

I always rationalized it as different depending on the faction. Like Orcs loos moral because they start questioning each others abilities as they start getting picked off and more or less start to turn on each other. But with Space Marie's as they loos bodies its more about getting into cover to refocus the squad on the objective at hand, whether that be murdering everything or grabbing a object of power

[@PrinceEphriam]

@@mikejonesnoreally Death Korps Commissars exist specifically to stop DK soldiers from getting themselves needlessly killed

[@richmcgee434]

@@PrinceEphriam Competent game designers could model that into their morale rules. Fail a "morale" check (which is really testing how disciplined you are in this case) and your DK trooper does something idiotically suicidal and winds up dead rather than fled. It's not even an original idea - historical rules sets have been including rules for unreliable/undisciplined/fanatical troops losing it and launching "banzai charges" or be lured into obvious traps for decades. GW's just lazy as hell and bad at game design a lot of the time - and this sure looks like one of those times.

[@PrinceEphriam]

@@richmcgee434 this reply really doesn't pertain to anything I said. I was replying to the other guy saying that the commissars for DK are "window dressing". I decided to be pedantic and correct them. I wasn't talking about rules and I wasn't talking about mechanics. Just lore.

[@TheKsalad]

I think having no morale is a good thing, having most or even your entire team just locked into doing nothing really sucked

[@gabrielwalton4097]

Yeah I feel like Morale/Nerve Tests were pretty janky if you played a high model kill team like GSC.

[@charlesb.1945]

Morale in a setting full of zealots, fanatics, and hive mind creatures really never made any sense to me.

[@r0b3rtpass]

In 9 out of 10 cases, both in 40k and kill team, we forgot about morale phase. Seriously, it's the worst phase... remove it from everywhere

[@LordVader1094]

@@charlesb.1945 Why? Even zealots might retreat.

[@Daktangle]

@@LordVader1094 Kill Team is essentially a suicide mission into enemy territory. The enemy are already at their retreat point essentially, and the team going in know this is do or die.

[@seanmontgomery4327]

16:25 - No morale / broken check is a bummer? Every game of kill team I ever played resulted in having 50% or less of my models shake. Which meant I was sitting around waiting to die or attempting to roll a 1 for auto-pass. That's not fun. If I have models on the table, I want to use them until the very bitter end. So good riddance breaking & shaken tests.

[@Globalnet626]

I think shaken tests should work. Broken gone is fine

[@vineheart01]

Agreed. Morale was one of the biggest reasons i stopped playing killteam. It was infuriating that i only had to lose 3 models and then roll unluckily ONCE and suddenly im eff'd for the entire game, basically lost right there 90% of the time or more.

[@scots2129]

Also, the broken and shaken checked always caused a lot of rules clarification for anyone who did not play a whole lot of KT. I played a game or 2 a week and was a tourney guy so I understood it. My buddies who were not competition players, but still played regularly still didn't fully understand the nuances and a lot of time was spent adding and subtracting modifiers

[@vineheart01]

@@scots2129 That too, i remember stopping the game for several minutes because of those dumb shaken/broken rules. Been a long time but i remember them at first glance completely stopping the owning player from even playing, and spending a lot of time looking around because that felt completely wrong.

[@MarkTurnbull]

@@scots2129 as one of those buddies I feel attacked by this comment 😉

[@PelagicAquaticsPaddockWood]

The 'losing one shape over terrain' and having more athletic models lose less than more cumbersome ones is a genius mechanic. Put that in 2nd Edition Reign in Hell!

[@mtozzi92]

Yeah, seems like such a missed opportunity for the kill team rules with the system they changed too, but that's kind of GW's thing I guess. I figured it was going to be the same thing.

[@RedHandedDaniel]

We need to reconcile inches and centimeters before we start with skull icon and triangle.

[@42DangerVision]

@@RedHandedDaniel Don't you see it? Inches and centemeters *are* skull icon and triangle! It's genius!

[@42DangerVision]

Indeed. I love how he basically designed a better movement system, off the cuff, in the middle of reviewing the new movement system.

[@42DangerVision]

Yup. The more I think about it. Heavy Metal iconography is definitely imperial units, and metric units are definitely proper geometric shapes.

[@sevencoloredmage8726]

That shooting sounds exactly how One Page Rules does attacks. Morale was always strange in a setting where everybody is supposed to be the ultimate fearless superduper, even more fearless than other fearless units, fanatical soldier/alien/robot/demon... But not being able to pin down or route units probably takes a lot of chaos and movement out of the game.

[@amazingwil]

Agree 100%

[@clinch4402]

Morale tests represent many more things than just "morale", despite the name. It's a setting of blind faith for sure, but not necessarily in the general (the player) giving the orders. Lorewise you have plenty of astartes telling their superiors to f*** off because the fighting odds make no sense.

[@krabiksnowl8787]

@@clinch4402 So Why do Thousand sons just ignore all those factors?

[@clinch4402]

@@krabiksnowl8787 Not sure. A lack of free will perhaps? More likely inconsistent rule writing.

[@trentgarton639]

@@krabiksnowl8787 they are quite literally dust, so they don’t really have free will so to speak

[@Rafferty1968]

I'll confess, I'm really rather stoked for this. I love how it is a blend of Warcry and Necromunda and geared towards narrative play.

[@darkowl9]

The shapes _only_ make sense with the "you must move each unit of distance in a straight line, and lose any overage if eg. you go around a corner". But whoever the heck decided a 3-sided shape represents 1", a circle represents 2", a 4-sided shape represents 3" and a 5-sided shape represents 6" was clearly high as a kite that day.

[@giraton1]

Apparently during testing, the system used only colours and no shapes, so yeah who ever picked the shapes seems like it was just a last minute thing.

[@cordial001]

You do measure distances in straight lines. Atom doesn't mention it, but that's how it's done.

[@darkowl9]

@@cordial001 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So if you have a movement characteristic of say 2x2", and you want to go 1" around a corner, you lose that extra 1" in that first move, then can move 2" further (for a total of 3", even if your movement characteristic is 4" total, because it's two lines of 2").

[@sbloyd]

@@giraton1 I assume the combo of "coloured shapes" is so colour-blind people can still figure it out.

[@giraton1]

@@sbloyd almost certainly (also helps for making the tools for the box) though that being said the chosen colours do work for most variants of colour blindness.

[@yyzhed]

Morale leaving is great news for me. I never liked a mechanic that makes you lose harder because you're losing. It's a short game already, we don't need to accelerate the ending.

[@animusvids]

Good they take out the morale thing, all the skirmish games don't use that because the games are representing very quick battles where you will be dead before having the time to be pinned by fear :)

[@yyzhed]

I just can't get over "three sided shape is 1", one sided shape is 2", four sided shape is 3", five sided shape is 6"" What? Why? You could have picked any shapes to represent numbers. Why pick nonsensical ones?

[@WayneTarbell605]

1= Circle...one line to draw 2=Plus...two lines to draw 3=Triangle... 4=Square... ...

[@cousinzeke4888]

So people will have to buy new, official measuring tools.

[@nickkowalski5209]

@@cousinzeke4888 except you won't - the shapes are still inches under the hood and you can still use the ruler, even gw mentioned that

[@noops9220]

8:22 It’s actually pronounced turn... the “ing point” is silent

[@Zombine45]

it seems to me the rules team had a mandate to make this distinct from regular 40k but similar enough that everyone would understand, hence the shapes=inches and the 'turning points'=turns

[@Screamingtilltheend]

Very much so, comes across like they weren't happy with the "smaller way to get into 40k" vibe that Killteam had, which is odd because thats why I loved Killteam in the first place.

[@giraton1]

The shapes thing comes from other games as an indicator for speed tools. Its a small thing that cuts out very little time, but it adds up enough that comp players do tend to like em in the long run.

[@paulkingtiger]

It feels like they were placeholder concepts that somehow made it into the final version. I'm not against non-inches / cm measurement, but usually it's used to allow for multiple scale / base sizes, like in some historical games where the measurement is base widths.

[@katamariroller2837]

@@giraton1 Ok, but... why didn´t they use shapes that make sense to go with the distances? A line for one inch, a circle for 2, a triangle for three, a square for four, a pentagon for five, a hexagon for six? It seems completely arbitrary to me to have a triangle for one inch. A triangle has three sides, "tri" stands for three, why would it mean ONE? Why not use basic language and common sense to make things easier and more immediately graspable? Or why not use Roman numerals, since that would fit the Imperium?

[@giraton1]

@@katamariroller2837 we might actually have an answer to that. During testing, playtesters only had colours as indicators, not shapes or inches (the same colours on the shapes). So it seems the shape choices specifically were an afterthought

[@TheHobbyGrotto]

I like that it has it's own system now, in a similar vein to Warcry, because it makes it more accessible for people who don't play 40k but love that lore. I'm a great example, I haven't played 40k in years, but I'd definitely be inclined to give Kill Team a go now with some of my old minis, or maybe even some new stuff. A reset like this can be great to bring everyone back to the ground level with even footing all round 😄

[@MrStath1986]

This. I also feel like the prior version was basically too much like 'mini 40k' at times. Obviously a new version has its own bugs to iron out, but at least KT feels like its own thing now.

[@ScooterinAB]

I can go both ways on it. Having a distinct set of rules is great for both new players as well as those who want a different play experiences from a regular 40k game. This makes the game something different from just playing a smaller game of 40k. That being said, this makes it harder to move back and forth between games, limiting how easy it would be to bring new players in from this into regular 40k. I like the idea of using a game like this as an army builder, where players start making their army here and then build on that in regular 40k. While the models are the same (save for a very few situations), having different rules makes that move that much harder.

[@demiliomason1565]

I mean the previous edition was intended as a smaller faster version of 40K with slight changes to make it more accessible to new people. A sort of pick up and play kind of thing.

[@jeffreygeorge8884]

@@ScooterinAB My sense is that people don't "move back and forth" between skirmish and battalion games, even if they use the same IP and models. In my area, anyone who likes 40K would rather play that than Kill Team, and people who don't like 40K disliked old Kill Team because it was too much like 40K. I don't think there's much overlap between Warcry and AoS players, but they gave Warcry a modern skirmish rule set, instead of rules and stats awkwardly ported from AoS. The fact that they're changing Kill Team and not Warcry tells me the Warcry model is significantly more profitable.

[@krulla]

If only human beings had already come up with some kind of universal system wherein symbols are used to represent numbers. Then GW wouldn't have had to come up with their own proprietary system to do that.

[@infinitedm5396]

(you can still use a tape measure)

[@beowylfen]

This actually kinda looks like something I'd be into, I like skirmish games more than huge armies overall

[@shinankoku2]

Try Corvus Belli’s Infinity.

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

There are MUCH better games than kill team.

[@danislawful]

@@gozewstuffnthings5837 like Necromunda!

[@sigil5554]

@@shinankoku2 great game.

[@TheFillem]

@@gozewstuffnthings5837 like what?

[@Toastergod44]

I think part of what we have to accept is that the "customization" of last edition was really just a smoke screen for "plasma spam and rail rifle spam wins".

[@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376]

Good riddance to the moral phase, 70% of the armies ignored it, 30% of armies feared it. And rolling your own broken test to see if you just loose was never a fun way to end a game

[@wolfrikspack6485]

The way I see it, it looks like battle companies( skirmish version of middle Earth SBG). It really works there, and the battles are quite fast. Thanks for the review of the rules here. Sounds good

[@TheBuefurd]

As someone who has only played MESBG (and never 40k/kill team), this does look similar narrative campaign wise. I'm excited to dig in.

[@Tillman581]

@@TheBuefurd I'll have to look into this game, still have my old Easterlings from the first run of Lord of the Rings they did

[@Nigelius]

Battle Companies is so good. It’s super cheap to get into (£90 of books aside), most battle companies are £30 to start. My biggest complaint is that there’s a load of supported minis in the Battle Companies book that are out of production (easily proxied though).

[@Tillman581]

@@Nigelius may have to check with some of the casters my mates and I use. Bigger issue I don't want to give GW any money lol

[@PewpewFiah]

@@Tillman581 The Rulebook is definitely worth paying for, it's a fantastic ruleset, I completely understand not supporting their price gouging when it comes to MESBG.

[@harkejuice]

I REALLY hate that ruler thing. It feels like throwing in a confusing proprietary system of symbols when distances would just be fine. How frustratingly obtuse.

[@Tillman581]

Gotta sell you a new 40 dollar bit of plastic, can't have folk just using their five dollar measuring tape.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

Just buy measuring widgets for 1/2 the price of GW's from one of many independent manufacturers.

[@keith6848]

Cut some cardboard

[@Tillman581]

@@keith6848 better use some official GW cardboard, or its not allowed in the turny. :P

[@keith6848]

@@Tillman581 very true, gotta keep the kids safe after all

[@inf3243]

...Staunch? seriously? What about Defender? Zealot? Bulwark? Survivor? Shieldbearer? Sentinel? Guardian? Guard? Warden? Strength? Resistance? Armour? Grit? Willpower? Staunch??

[@eater_of_garbage_]

Mans got a thesaurus

[@Xanuricus]

Dogged. Woof!

[@frocat5163]

The other words were likely copyrighted as gaming terms by other companies, and GW found that the only one left they could copyright was 'staunch'...

[@rat-matt-miniatures8705]

Numbers, been around for years, work really well. And GW seems to think they are broken and need fixing and replacing with shapes, yay????

[@S.W.A.G40k]

I was there when they invented numbers. I knew they wouldn't last.

[@Anjohl]

Gotta get those proprietary mechanics in there!

[@CMZPICTURES]

The thing with inches is most of the world doesn't use them, so would it make more sense to use cm? Probably not...

[@cordial001]

I'm 100% interested in playing campaigns and have zero interest in matched play, so... cautious hooray? I didn't see anything that would talk me out of getting the game here. Looks fun.

[@MarketResearchReading114]

I feel like matched play will help sell the game, but narrative play will be why you want to play in the first place. Then with your team that you love from narrative play and you've built fond stories with, you go to matched play to duke out their honor and see if you can prove yourself in a more competitive environment.

[@Unforgivable43]

@@MarketResearchReading114 This is how I think as well friendly internet dweller, and people wonder how I can handle matched play half the time

[@ForTheOmnissiah]

IMO the new version is so, so much more engaging. You're moving units, constantly dealing and taking damage, every time I activate an operative it actually feels like it was important and something always happens. It feels like the faster-paced skirmish combat it was meant to feel like. Bogging the game down to a crawl with morale etc. feels awful. And it also feels nice that operatives take damage a LOT. Most often you land 1-2 hits when you attack and get that damage in, and sometimes you hit that 360 noscope and land a couple crits in one roll and 1-shot the operative. Feels so good. I've had many instances where a lucky attack turned the tide of a match.

[@jackchampion8875]

I amworried that the compendium kill teams aren't going to be as interesting as the Kommandos and Kriegers. If they are and include the large variety of options available I think this could be a fantastic edition.

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

LOS is going to be a big learning curve for most player at the start. The Compendium (I assume) is going to feel underwhelming because they want to be able to sell more books for each kill team down the line.

[@ariandynas]

The reason for the tools is likely to prevent people from squeaking out extra distance - you slap down the shape in front of the model and move the model to the other end of the shape - hard to do the 'sneak in an extra inch' some players do - they do the same thing in games like X-Wing I'm given to understand for the same reason. This being said the 'losing one shape over terrain' idea is in fact *extremely* clever.

[@seanquinn9284]

Morale being gone is the best thing they could've ever done. The new version is way better, Can't wait to see what else this new version brings! Also as for the one arm for two piece bits (I also feel the suck here but...), there are so many extra arms left over I was easily able to build different load out, just got get clipping! PS. I'm well aware not everyone is going attempt this but it very doable!

[@jazzzonyourface]

Being new to this hobby and watching the video released on warcry, the way warcry was made seemed to allow for (what felt like) hundreds of scenarios and different situations, I was hoping for something similar in this box. It'll be interesting to see the video on saturday to see what else is instore. I imagine that there will still be plenty to do and you can probably "kit bash" your own missions as it were. Looks good overall I think though

[@maxwalker66]

I'd be curious to see how the new rules play, though I'd appreciate it if you could get a rulebook that doesn't have 50 pages of background and lore. I understand why it's there but a smaller book would be easier to cart around.

[@jonrollason5709]

Spiral binding your book is HUGE. Highly recommended. And if you want to bind it without the fluff, that's more portable.

[@spiteu9272]

Prolly got that QR code in the back for a digital version.

[@mikeadams3722]

Thanks for a good and fair review. Regarding not having specialists in matched play, I would just say that my impression is that specialisms are in two levels now - those baked in to the datasheets (e.g. sniper veteran, hardened veteran) and those where battle honours are earnt (combat, staunch, etc.), so you still have the baked in ones in matched play. From what I've seen so far it also seems as though the Compendium lists might be 'get you by' lists, with the Octarius style lists adding a further level of detail. But... I look forward to you spilling the beans on the Compendium when the NDA allows.

[@erwanguillon5975]

I had the opportunity to play 2 games with a friend of mine and despite the rules being a bit long to read and not easy to understand at first glance, everything made sense while we played and it turned out to be pretty easy and smooth. I think it's because every rule has an impact on the game and is cinematic. I enjoyed it much much more than the previous version.

[@haloreaper1018]

It looks great, I just hope that if the kommando and krieg rules become available at a later date outside of the octarius boxset maybe in their respective kits when those get rereleased

[@owo_whatsthis6956]

As someone who hasnt gotten into 40k because of the daunting size, this looks like a very good time to get into this "lighter" version

[@tuffn00gies]

It's popular to squat on GW right now but this actually sounds fun. I agree tho, the shapes and "turning point" change seem like nonsense.

[@jonrollason5709]

I *think* they've consciously renamed absolutely everything. See also "ploys". We're not going to be reading a discussion on Facebook and not knowing whether we're talking about WH40K or Kill Team, ever.

[@JamesSerapio]

I miss the days when GW guns fit every arm for that model.

[@craigjones7343]

They still can with creative hobbying

[@Tillman581]

Now now, we can't have you just buying one kit and getting everything you need, now can we?

[@cdh7453]

Haha I'm still shocked they give you the pieces for 2 alternatives across most boxes e.g. Seraphim / Zephyrim, Rhino / Razorback. When I was doing 3rd / 4th edition you didn't even get assembly instructions, it was just... Good luck...

[@joahnaut]

Except they didn't.

[@JamesSerapio]

@@craigjones7343 not really? The Chaos Space Marine kits have left hands attached to the weapons as well, which is a pain. I'm not going sculpt a weapon's forestock.

[@majdees]

They really should add an official solo mode. Especially for the campaign. I can't find any reason as to why they don't!

[@twincast2005]

27:15 It's pretty obvious what that is as the WarCom articles already heavily implied it. Namely each Fire Team is restricted to whatever options one specific kit gives you, which outside Firstborn Marines typically aren't many, slightly mitigated by the odd "two Fire Teams for most Kill Teams" rule.

[@Anjohl]

Dumbing things down rather than just selling bits or a weapons kit.

[@hughmac7423]

When I watch a game play video, I was thinking I would not like the rule changes, but now I think I like the rule changes.

[@processseer6693]

Taking away complexity based on customization and introducing additional complexity to base rules such as LOS seems backwards.

[@FelisMachina]

I still have simillar opinion that I had before rules dropped. Game looks much more complicated with unnecessary extra steps. People say modern game design and I see melee rules from first Necromunda which did'nt work then. Rules are already bloated with lots of special rules for special rules. Limited list building is something that does not encourage experiments and conversions. Shapes are just pointless. I don't even wanna start on core rules and compedium sold separately for price on day 1. Instead of thin booklet they could put all those rules inside corebook. For that price you could buy previous edition corebook with elites which gave you so many rules and options. Overall I see more flaws than upragdes. Instead of some lifting and streamlining old rules they try to make new rules just for the sake of being different. I feel that for narrative play Necromunda is superior and 500 pts 40k is much faster skirmish game than this. While I will probably at least try to play this game I think I will move into other 40k games.

[@michaelthebarbarian5527]

Gotta say I’m happy to have the morale system gone. In last edition it was obviously mostly a copy paste from 40 k except the modifiers were cumulative. Played games were cultists or pox walkers all died ( as chaff does) then my chaos marines were essentially guaranteed to fail morale. The whole think felt like it didn’t match the game

[@simplesmile6984]

>_> . . ."youv got your guy filled with dynamite" , i bet thats your demolition guy" "yes good eye" . . .

[@torros1839]

Maybe GW are annoyed they can't copyright a ruler with inches on it hence the rulers with shapes

[@tmartinez32]

You are an incredibly engaging speaker. I suspect I'd be able to watch you speak about anything and still enjoy it and learn a lot. Thanks for these videos. You've taught me quite a bit about our hobby. That's priceless if you ask me

[@tugboatsvideoemporium6476]

I think I'm probably going to stick with the version of killteam that currently exists. I've brought a couple of friends into the hobby for the last few years by introducing them to Kill-Team first because it does not deviate so far from the broader 40k game. The game described here feels like it has so little in common with 40k that learning this game would not help you also learn that game, which is a problem, I think.

[@ronindesbois9660]

I'm not sad to see morale go tbh, but i can see why you'd want it back. The terrain rules seem almost directly imported from 40k and i'm not too sure about this. In games this size, i don't think it's unreasonable to just have like a minus one to hit if you can't see the full model or something ... idk i just hope it won't be too game-y and make the whole thing a slog. It's true the whole specialists thingy was cool in previous KT, but the way weapons seem to work in this version, it feels like it's kinda baked in. Plus there's the narrative stuff like you said. I'm waiting for your next video, but from what you say here, it feels like the other factions feel a lot more bared bones that the two new ones. I hope they will still be fun, and with enough customization. KT to me is very much about "your dudes" ( now that i think about it, i think you're the one i heard say this for the first time ). On the website we can see what options other factions have, and i was a bit sad to see stuff like Lictors go. Hexmark Destroyers would also have fitted right in imo. I guess it's almost a given well see some form of KT Commanders or KT Elites at some point. Anyway. Thanks for the video Adam !

[@willroarty1512]

I'm guessing they didn't want new people to deal with the old kit. But they did keep storm guardians in which is a resin upgrade sprue on the old guardians kit so who knows really. I hope they left it out because there's a new plastic one on the way

[@Anjohl]

They gotta sell you "Kill Team Octarius: Elites" in three months to get Lictors!

[@willroarty1512]

@@Anjohl It could be something like that. With their new system of every 3 months a new warzone I see it as an easy way to update all the old old models easily without the expectation of updating the whole line. And to sell more books

[@Aphfaneire]

The shapes are very likely a means of making the game more accessible for children and people who have only ever worked with metric. But your suggested spryness mechanic sounds better regardless of measurement.

[@magicfishmanscholarofthegr5875]

It’s not aimed at children and using an inch measurer to play killteam/40k was never a problem for me or my buddies (metric is still superior). It’s just a dumb piece of design on their part.

[@StaszekKardach]

Did anyone check the patent office? Maybe there is a patent for "shape based distance resolution" and "turning points in board games"?

[@fortheswarmlord3250]

Circles, triangles, squares... Ffs British people will do ANYTHING to avoid using metric system 😂

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

But we do for most things.. or use both.

[@aerouge4492]

@@gozewstuffnthings5837 why are inches used over cm?

[@FekalKilla]

@@gozewstuffnthings5837 yeah, like watching Premier league and commentator telling me, that guy gained muscles, 4 stones of them

[@Greg5560]

My original thought to why there were no specializations in matched play was because they would release underworld style teams (like the krieg and komandos) that have specific models for each specialization and it would be built into their sheet. So you'll want to use the unique teams over the generic and they can sell you more

[@MrStath1986]

That seems like their intent based on what they were saying in the preview show for this version of KT, that moving forward we'll see more dual-purpose kits for KT and 40K. Of course, that relies on GW supporting the game more than they have with Warcry.

[@Anjohl]

Ding ding ding!

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Thanks for that advice on assembly... yeah I was planing on magtizing them... I dubly plan out it now!

[@adamjackson260]

Watching this one after the compendium video you can pick up the disappointment cues when the compendium is referred to. Great job Atom as always.

[@AndiVx]

That movement with icons change was purely done to not have inches in countries where people (like me) do not use the imperial system. Right now, I only use inches for wargames and feet for dungeons & dragons.

[@Tom_Quixote]

And those metric countries are all the countries in the world apart from the US, Liberia, and Myanmar.

[@katarhall3047]

This is such an odd video. It's obvious the route GW went with Kill Team: make it MORE accessible to regular players, than it was before. This is basically now like Kill Team: simplified, straight forward (for the most part), and separate/unique from 40K. Which it was more akin to as a watered down version.

[@RampantFirefly]

In my mind there’s no reason why I couldn’t have a matched or open play game it’s a friend, where we agree before to each take three level 2 models per Killteam. That way you still get to have specialists.

[@cliff7641]

I've spent the past year building and painting a Forgeworld Krieg army, and the issues you describe with certain arms being needed for the plasma/melta and having to cut up other arms to have both... that is a very familiar experience for me with the resin models.

[@inf3243]

So lame how GW limit your options by one tiny part on the sprue. They do it ALL THE TIME and I hate it. It would cost them almost nothing to include that little bit extra but know folks are gonna rush out and buy more kits just to get that little extra part. So lame.

[@burroc5536]

I’m guessing because the kit will also be used for 40K and you can’t take multiple special weapons in a standr

[@burroc5536]

Oops... in a standard squad.

[@martinjrgensen8234]

It actually cost a hell of a lot of money to mill the moulds, and the moulds themselves are very costly. So GW have to balance how many resources to allocate each kit. And the kit has limited sprue space

[@twincast2005]

While I agree in principle, in practice you can easily copy those. I very much doubt that GW would even notice half an arm (or a helmeted head for models that don't come with such an option) being made of epoxy putty cast from a reusable mold, let alone disqualify you from a tournament. Also: magnetize.

[@inf3243]

@@martinjrgensen8234 Usually the limiting piece is tiny. Take the imperial guard vehicle upgrade sprue. They give you a heavy stubber, and a storm bolter, but only one tiny bracket to mount it on. this thing's about the size of a space marine's forearm. It's clearly designed so you can only use one option.

[@StackingLimit]

Excellent Video Uncle Atom. I really love how you are so honest in your reviews. I think I will be following your lead and writing in inches moved etc. next to the symbols in the book.

[@frocat5163]

As long as you don't want to play in official GW games / tournaments. Because you can guarantee GW will no longer allow people to use those pesky non-GW-produced measuring devices in any of the official games...

[@EricMitton]

I’m so glad they fixed wounds and dropped morale! My boys and I got into Kill Team when Covid first hit as a quarantine hobby, and I literally STILL don’t understand the prior wound system.

[@CaptainMahone07]

No more moral is the best idea ever. + new overwatch, games workshop finaly realised that for the past 30 or 40 years, the guy with the greatest number of miniatures on the table just wins.

[@stevenfrazer9423]

The addition of wounds and removing moral and injury tokens streamlines the game. The only problem, a minor problem, is using shapes for measuring. On one side it makes it easy to indicate things like distance, border setup etc. Personally though, saying inches is just as easy. When I play a friendly game with friends we do not use the LOS rules properly as intended but use a "if I can see you, you can see me" and if 1/2 or more of weapons, talons etc are exposed they are in LOS. Additional we do not quite follow the shapes last of movement if leaping over terrain but we measure the height of say a pipe of 1" and subtract that number to the movement

[@TorrentKatten]

"Not Kill Teaming" put a big smile on my face!

[@mata218]

I'm not sure if I like the new list building without points. It feels like it's gonna make kill teams a lot more uniform. I like being able to make a Chaos Marine kill team with like 10 cultists and 2 marines, or an elite team with 6 marines, but with the new list building it sounds like I won't get that customization. I'm also concerned about what the Astartes list looks like because there are normally so many options.

[@ToastErickson]

I believe the reasoning behind it is because people were building really spammy lists, like just a bunch of guards with plasma or meltas… or a team or just drones. We will have to wait and see how fireteam compositions are handled in the compendium.

[@mata218]

@@ToastErickson Which is a concern, but one that could have been fixed with a simple unit limit. Yeah we'll have to wait until Saturday to see how other factions are handled.

[@DarthChocolate15]

I think it's fair to reign in on Astartes options somewhat with how many more units they have access to than other teams. But it's going to be pretty boring/disappointing if their Fire Teams are all mono-box teams.

[@mata218]

@@DarthChocolate15 Yeah when every team is basically the same units from one box it'd be boring. Honestly I might just go back to old KIll Team if I don't like the new one, it just seems too clinical, not enough customization.

[@brandonvaughn7255]

It looks like there may be some ability to do that, just not with quite as much flexibility. One of the articles on the community site mentioned kill teams that were made up of a number of fire teams. One of the examples given was Death Guard who had fire teams of plague marines, which had up to 3 models, or fire teams of pox walkers which had something like 8 or 10 models. So I'm guessing you'll be able to do some customizing based on mixing and matching fire teams.

[@kungfu31]

its a year later and Kill Team is the only Skirmish game I play now. It is WAYYYY better then Kill Team 1.

[@RandProductions45]

I know Im way late on this but I'd like to add on to Adam's point about specialists. In old Kill Team my friends and I would determine what level our specialists were going to be so that we could enjoy those abilities without committing to a full campaign. And in new Kill Team it's not so different where we play a quick matched play game but add in those specialist roles from narrative play for more flavor.

[@BlaineThPain]

Also, I love your shirt. "I'd buy that for a dollar!"

[@JayTeacakes]

Turning Points makes some sense as GW has been terrible in the past at deciding between Turns and Rounds. Where you've got alternating actions like this, calling them Turning Point at least makes it absolutely clear it means that and not 'for the duration of this single model's turn/round/activation'

[@Pyrenthius]

for me it seems pretty obvious the shapes might be for dyslexic players? so they dont have to struggle to identify the numbers EVERY time

[@stori3275]

damn, those movement rules Adam just spit balled sound really fun actually lol.

[@atomicdracula6475]

I dont think this will be a game i am playing, sadly. I really liked the last edition of kill team, and was disappointed that it never got the support i hoped they would give it. I liked the similarities between KT and W40k, and i hoped things like alternating activations would be imported to 9th ed.

[@mouseketeery]

What do you mean by 'support'? What did you want GW to do that they didn't? Genuine question, I'm not being argumentative.

[@MrStath1986]

@@mouseketeery For one, it never really got unique models that are intended specifically for KT, like the DK and Kommandos are in this incarnation. That and some newer models never got to see support as promised. Beyond that, I thought they went out of their way to support the game with the expansions, especially given this take lasted about three to four years.

[@Anjohl]

So keep playing that!

[@Astul89]

I notice this channel has turned more into a warhammer channel, but very time I see your intro I wonder if you would ever make a video about some other wargame like a realistic ww2 one (due to the tank on the intro). I have been trying to find stuff about wargames with realistic settings but couldnt find much online and being from a country where wargames arent that popular I am having trouble with finding more info about the subject. Any suggestions? A video about that would be cool

[@PrinceVinceOfficial]

I'm actually pretty bummed about this new version. Some of the changes are neat and some are head-scratching at best, but mainly I don't want to play XCOM or X-Wing or Warcry or Malewhatever. I want to play mini-40k on a skirmish level. I was really hoping for just a big update to the last version to fix some glaring issues, not a whole new game. I like points and hunting bits on ebay. I don't want pre-packaged teams.

[@Anjohl]

Well the current KT is the game you want! Cheap as dirt too!

[@Toirneachgames]

Thanks for your very comprehensive review. Imust say that micro expression when you mentioned the compendium got me a little bit worried :O. I will wait for your video about it on Saturday.

[@manyslayer5889]

With the action point system, I would have liked a morale system to be like pinning where if you were pinned you'd lose an action point on the next activation. Helps to reinforce marines/custodes as more fearless as they still get to do more even when pinned/broken.

[@okonkwojones]

Suppression mechanic reducing action points & or limiting types of actions is a great idea, and allows a unit to become combat ineffective-instead of morale just breaking your army, which was just a lazy mechanic.

[@aGentlemanScholar]

I'm expecting a super half baked compendium, where some factions have like four options they can take in their kill team compared to veteran guardsman with like 10+ different data sheets

[@TheKrenshar]

It does look on the website like the compendium is largely just putting up rules for the model options that were in the previous core book, the "annual" and pariah nexus. WarCom says 187 operatives; I count 60-odd 40k units that are drawn from according to the kill team website so leader, gunner and grunt for the majority of unit choices as it was in 2018 edition would amount to around the total given. I'm hoping the compendium is just get-you-by lists while we await new octarius-style squads for everyone, and be priced accordingly. But I doubt it will be anything but a pricey hardback and that is what stops me getting excited for this new edition.

[@martinjrgensen8234]

Definitely. The compendium will be limited to what the box comes with

[@SaturmornCarvilli]

I'm losing more and more enthusiasm for the new Kill Team the more I hear about it. It's going to have to be better than okay-good as I have a bunch of full 40k, AoS and even Bolt Action armies and opponents ready to go. The only rules that grab my interest are the covert/engaged status. However, even those, like the rest of the game, seem like a Frankenstein's Monster cobbled from other games. Or more accurately, the student that sat next to Victor Frankenstein and cheated off him not really understanding those mechanics. On the customer side, I get the feeling the compendium is a waste (rumored $50US) money being a Kill Team index until more War Zones come out. Which the War Zone themselves could very easily be a money-sink of previous Kill Team Battlezones + 1 team or two and the War Zone book like Octarius is. I was a big fan of previous Kill Team. By number of games, it is my most played miniatures war game. Everything I hear about new Kill Team doesn't grab me like the lightning-in-a-bottle of the last set. Combine that with an extreme fatigue of buying GW rules/Codices, Battletomes and other literature that seemingly has a shelf like shorter than the food in my kitchen, and I think might just this game a pass. Even if I don't, it seems quite likely to lose the interest of where I play. As the core group also have full 40k/AoS armies now.

[@Hivescum2]

Meh. Sounds like I'll be using these beautiful new models with the Stargrave rules instead!

[@darnokx9277]

Sounds interesting. I was looking forward to your first impressions in particular, so thanks a lot for this.

[@WarlordFlanker]

I dont understand why they didnt use a dot for 1", colon for 2", triangle for 3", and hexagon for 6"

[@aerouge4492]

Because that'd be sensible?

[@twincast2005]

And something regarding the shapes/colors which you didn't mention that turns them from useless change to detrimental: You can move in one-inch "steps", meaning you have to calculate things such as "3 ○ - 1 △ = ?". Gauges are neat. Shapes aren't.

[@RerollingOnes]

Hmm. Using shapes to represent numbers. This is a really genius idea! I wonder though, is there an easier way to represent "Two inches" on a ruler? Hmm. I wonder. This is a really perplexing design question and I bet philosophers will be debating this one for ages. Maybe in future generations in 100 years, when the technology has improved, they will find a better way of communicating the number 2 without having to use a 2.

[@bww33]

The reason they changed wording like "turning point" and use shapes instead of saying "inches" is because they just wanted the game to have its own vernacular - so when you hear two people talking about the game, its very clear what they are talking about without having to ask - if you hear inches and turns, you think 40k or sigmar - if you hear turning point and triangle, you immediately know its Killteam

[@marks6928]

“I move triangle, and now I’m pentagon away from you, so you’re in range”. “Ahh man, I knew I should have moved circle away last turning point!” Yeah, it’s going to be awesome hearing that. (In reality, I think most people are going to keep calling turning points ‘turns’, and the only time you’ll hear a lot of stuff about shapes is when you’re in a GW store. Most people will be saying inches, still I bet). The thing about creating their own vernacular is probably right, but it does make me wonder why they didn’t do that in any previous game. Not for Warcry, that Titan game, Necromunda etc. It seems really odd.

[@ShadowCoH316]

Frankly, ALL of the new models lately look good, but are fiddly either with assembly or have forced poses and very few options for customization. The Beast Snagga boyz are great, but when I finished the first 10 I had a really hard time making the other 10 distinct.

[@marks6928]

I hate the shape thing. My excitement for this game has cooled considerably based on what I've been seeing.

[@kamaeq]

Heh, kitbashing skills needed. I've found it real useful with Custodes since most of them don't look like the pictures unless you do cutting and filling. IMO, it is because they are optimized for spear Custodes builds and I was building sword & board Custodes, but even then, the Shield Captain build and Vexila Praetor build both are limited in gear.

[@mmookkdashaman3482]

Yeah. When I cut some foam board I'm a thinkin' " I need 3 pentagons of foam board". Sigh.

[@okonkwojones]

Maybe the shapes were to save money on printing stat cards different regions translation? ‘Cause it’s just inscrutable and if they did it just to change it up, that’s just dumb.

[@54tisfaction]

@5:23 "That guy is a such and such..." Hey, easy with the adjectives there buddy!

[@Ralndrath]

'Strategy Phase' that term is misused almost as much as 'literally' nowadays. GW should know the difference between tactics and strategies. This is a Skirmish game, small scale it should be 'Tactical Phase.'

[@sebbychou]

Depends. There's both in the game ain't it? Strategy is the plan and goal, tactics is the application and reaction to the reality of the battlefield to achieve the strategic goal. Strategy is not just a large scale thing, there's layers.

[@Ralndrath]

@@sebbychou yes, I know but the thing is that the things you do in such a phase are going to manipulate the tactics of the game whether your own or your opponent's. So Tactical Phase is far more fitting a term.

[@housecaldwell]

I hate to say it, but the overwatch rule is a pretty good solution to the problem that horde armies present to alternative activation

[@peppermintshore]

Im buying the game. Will get 5 to 10 games under my belt before making a decision. If its not great then will go back to 1.0. at least i will have some cool terrain.

[@tando6266]

Sounds like a more clunky less fleshed out infinity

[@edwarddeguzman3258]

True, and the models aren't that great either

[@JI-fk8mz]

Sounds fun! I’m thinking about getting one myself. I wonder if my brother will play with me?

[@flak1939]

I think the reason they called them turning points is to differentiate between the static structure of the turn and the dynamic 'between activation' nature of statuses and abilities coupled with choice in activation order. So turning points are just a point in the game that you gain readies back, but it does not clear statuses or affect models in the same way a static turn sequence does.

[@terrain4print]

The new 40k ork codex is fully prepared to handle the ork kommandos with different loadouts.

[@johntowers7813]

Not a fan on "if you build this type of model, you can't use the bits for other models" unless you're really good at conversions.

[@1jasup]

What the heck were they thinkin with those shapes?! Too funny. However, the rest sounds fun and I'm excited to get it on the table.

[@TeeeCeee]

It seems GW are going to fence 3rd parties producers from providing game accessories. These triangle, circle, square thing is pretty obvious. In this edition you have inches.. yet. I make educated guess in next iteration of KT there will be no more inches. And inches will change to for example 1,16 inch, but triangle, circle, square will stay. Try to produce any gaming measuring gauge using this (copyrighted) length, ha. Not telling about using non authorized measuring gauge during official tournaments. Why there is no range measuring. You can guess, it will be tricky to persuade players to use gwches instead inches, and using different length sticks is fiddly (I saw such tries in a past, bacause I have Rackham measuring tape from AT-43 box set). You havent mentioned about it, but I saw also Ash review (from Guerilla Miniatures Games) and this edition 100% integrates gw terrain with rules, so no more hand made terrain pieces and third parties also. I'm guessing future KT products will be kit of rules with terrain. Full set, all you need. No need to lift your gaming enviroment aquarium lid. It seems to be all about securing GW business platform ie Kill Team property. I would like to make small mention that melee rules for this KT seems to come from Pulp Alley rules with some modifications. Stargrave inspirations you metioned youself.

[@andeejaym]

One tip that I got with remembering the new lengths is instead of thinking about them as shapes is to think about them as colours - helps the memory somehow: Black, White, Blue, Red