New Paladin | 2024 Player's Handbook | D&D

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0:00 What’s new in the Paladin
13:06 Oath of Devotion
15:35 Oath of Glory
19:53 Oath of the Ancients
23:27 Oath of Vengeance
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#dnd #dungeonanddragons #dungeonsndragons

[@OneShotQuesters]

But the main question is....Will the Paladin Throw it Back? 👀

[@eduardogarcia6318]

Hello there! Nice to see you here. I love your content!

[@Udontnomi02]

If only 😞

[@adamjakaus9312]

🤞

[@ginginc]

Sadly only Devotion, Glory, Ancients & Vengeance made it into the new PHB. Though wonder if take a 1 level dip into Bard would allow a Paladin to master throwing it back?

[@ad9aggie]

No, only the Monk can do that...

[@TiroBoron]

The Divine Smite changes fill me with righteous anger

[@MegaMik]

"We've made TWO major enhancements. One of them is Bonus action instead of action-" Video ends*

[@Thaloc]

Very strange this cut in the video

[@tfowler1]

Came to the comments just for this.

[@NewdErection]

“There is…. Another….skywaaaah” *dies*

[@Megawaps]

That's a cliffhanger

[@gd_xl]

i like to imagine these two just constantly discussing dnd in this little room never taking breaks to eat or sleep

[@koldblazer12]

Compelled Duel

[@parheliaa]

Hardly a discussion when one of them only repeats "Yeah", "Cool" or nods 90% of the time

[@koldblazer12]

@@parheliaa other companies like bethesda do this too like with their starfield update and bungie with destiny 2’s the final shape, im guessing they want it to feel less corporate with an interview format but its not really giving that vibe yknow

[@tonysladky8925]

That's impossible. Every so often, Todd has to stop and talk to Perkins instead.

[@SPKRoach]

They’ve been going at it for 50 years

[@GrimMorningstar]

Making smite a spell with levels means a Paladin of Bahamut can no longer smite Tiamat, as she is immune to all spells 6th level or lower. Worst change ever.

[@derspacer2259]

Also, they cannot smite with any enemy Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard around - Counterspell. They just moved THE main class feature to be counterable easily. Will they do the same to Barbarian rages and druid wild shapes? Those are also insanely strong, even with the new changes.

[@marcoscollado4040]

yes of course a really specific situation that has happened 3 times in 50 years made this change "the worst change ever"

[@ilyaterk110]

@@derspacer2259 Man I can't believe they still have Wizards cast spells that can be counterspelled. Spells are THE main class feature of Wizards. This is so unfair!

[@JamCliche]

​​@@ilyaterk110So disingenuous. Those classes can Counterspell back, and cast more spells in combat. Paladins cannot do this, and Smite is their main damage dealing feature. Without it, they're just an okay Fighter with a self heal.

[@BlazeIgnitus]

@@ilyaterk110 Your disingenuousness and glibness is noted. One small problem: wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks also get counterspell, which means they can take down the counterspell potentially. Paladins don't get that option, making paladins far more vulnerable to counterspell than the aforementioned arcane casters. Paladins also use Smite as their main damage source. As Jam noted, without it, they're not going to keep up even with a fighter or barbarian, and they have a self-heal (which fighter also sort of has with Second Wind). So... what's your point, exactly? Or are you just going to continue to be disingenuous?.

[@electronsympathy]

"We moved spells to level 1 so a paladin might actually cast a spell for once in their lives instead of wasting them all on smite."

[@BootiSwet]

Paladins don't have spell slots, they have smite slots.

[@pixelated.dreams]

>Laughs in Smite< Bet!

[@LanceorTC]

To emphasize that, they also made smite borderline unusable.

[@shealupkes]

"we couldn't think of good features so we just moved spellcasting to level 1 and called it a day"

[@TaylorAP13]

@@shealupkes Paladins were one of the classes that needed as little change as possible. They got a host of upgrades, not sure what you are mad about. Lol

[@FriendlyOne_]

Divine smite being a spell is a class devastating feature. It's so bad... For the life of me, I can't understand why you couldn't just slap "once per turn" on it to fix pally being super nova?

[@saurianwatcher4437]

Really, I dont get how this is a nerf in any way other than preventing Rules Lawyer players from nuking everything with a smite tacked onto every time a weapon connects. Making it a bonus action spell instead of its current form just means that you can't chain it onto multiple hits in the same attack, and prevents it from being used as an add-on to Sentinel's reaction hit. For people playing RaI, it's a no-variation rules clarification that ultimately buffs the class since e you also now get a free Paladin Smite every day. It's literally only a nerf if your DM isn't running enough encounters per long rest that only Paladins are getting the chance to use all their spell slots.

[@FriendlyOne_]

@@saurianwatcher4437 nope, it's way more worse than that. - No smiting on a reaction attack - No two weapon fighting - No polearm master attack - Divine smite can be counterspelled - Enemies immune to spells under N level? Applies to smite now - Do paladin's subclasses still give a BA feature? Can't use that with smite now either. 5e has a boring action economy. Move, action, bonus action(and a reaction). What you could do to diversify your regular turn is grab feats and abilities to fill in your BA. With this change paladin just feels like your regular fighter mechanically, just with a single magically empowered strike. Slapping "once per turn" wording would've fixed everything, including paladin nuking everything by chaining to every attack, which I understand is pretty powerful, but making it BA is a wrong way to fix it Watch Treants monk vid on suggested smite, he gives a good idea

[@FriendlyOne_]

If Rakshasa retains his limited magic immunity from 5e that means even a 20th level paladin would be unable to deal any damage with his smite... You get this? A 20th level paladin would be unable to damage a fiend with his smite!

[@bringitonbatman]

Rest-in-peace the paladin-barbarian multiclass 2014-2024

[@stephenradlett1418]

Also moon druid paladin...no more wild shape smite

[@trise2033]

​@@stephenradlett1418That never existed. In fact, that's likely the exact reason why Smite only worked on Weapon Attacks.

[@itzguzma4075]

Can’t you just multiclass with the 2024 Barbarian and 2014 Paladin to get around it?

[@derspacer2259]

​@@trise2033 You are wrong about this. Paladin can smite on any Melee weapon attack. Animal bites are Melee Weapon Attacks. Read the monster stats for any beasts.

[@bruisermachina13]

The fact that smite is a spell now means smite can only happen once per turn. As for the find steed, I think we need better mounted combat rules in the first place.

[@TheMaDdi3]

Only if it was a bonus action. And if the bonus-action-spell-cantrip-only-now rule still exists.

[@Mikus011]

Thanks for explaining why this change is considered bad...

[@ecgrey]

And it can be counterspelled. Smite! What were they thinking?

[@gersonbruno8463]

I think it continues to be part of the attack, so if you have extra ones it shouldn't be able to be casted just once per turn. (if I'm not wrong)

[@Xephosus]

@@gersonbruno8463 Nope, any Smite is a bonus action, and it is a verbal spell casting, so only one smite per turn

[@TheRealmDrifter]

I understand the reasons why the Artificer won't be part of the 2024 Player's Handbook, but for the love of Bahamut, please provide a similar update to the class in one of the subsequent books 🙏

[@tarodnet]

I guess their next book after core books will be to update other classes like the Artificer. Thasha's Cauldron 2.0? 😅

[@Manahyde]

​@@tarodnetThey're just gonna call it Tasha's Cauldron again, and then watch us lose our collective minds, as we try to decide on the proper terminology between the two books among ourselves

[@parheliaa]

@@Manahyde Tasha's Cauldron of Anything?

[@BrunoFernandes-ty7mf]

Considering how much of the 2024's changes are inspired by Tasha's game design philosophy, i think the Artificer will not change much. I mean, is my favorite class (and mostly because it embodies that game design philosophy), but i'm trying not to be to anxious about it because i think there isn't that much to change or improve. The only thing i really want is new subclasses, specially because options that never left the UA, like the Archivist, which focused on many cool support aspects, will never become a reality because the theme was already used to make Order of Scribes for the Wizard. So i want to see what other types of ideas they have for the Artificer.

[@Manahyde]

@@parheliaa Tasha's Cauldron of a Couple New Things

[@captainrelyk]

You guys are continuing forth with making smite a spell? Did you ignore all the feedback where we explained the issues with that, particularly creatures who are immune to spells of 5th level and lower? Are paladins who serve Bahamut unable to smite Tiamat now?

[@codebracker]

This was already the case for all smite spells in 5e, now they are just changing the divine smite to match

[@dwil0311]

They ignored the feedback that was bad. Correct, a level 20 paladin shouldn't be able to smite Tiamat.

[@frking100]

@@dwil0311 This is a dumb take that nullifies a main class feature. There is quite a few creatures immune to lvl 5 spells or lower such as rakshasa which paladins should definitely be able to smite.

[@dwil0311]

@@frking100 “there is quite a few creatures…” No, there’s not. And why should a Paladin be able to smite them?

[@dwil0311]

I mean, heaven forbid that there's a few creatures (less than 5) in the game that force you to alter your game play at all. And one of those creatures is a campaign specific god statblock that you would have an entire campaign to prepare for. It's interesting to say that one of the main paladin features is nullified, whereas the entirety of mutliple classes (not just features) are nullified by these creatures, so complaining about a paladin who is still a good class without divine smite, is a bit silly.

[@Tianzi38]

Video cuts short discussion of Oath of Vengeance changes, which is incredibly annoying. Literally in mid-sentence.

[@ericgropuis]

I understand wanting to make Paladins not reliant on Smite but making the base Smite a spell now limits it even more. Paladins have a lot of useful concentration spells and it will eat up turns since Paladins dont have cantrips and Smites are tied to an attack. Now it means with these rules a Paladins will only just attack and smite on their turns and that’s it. It can now be counterspelled which sucks for the player, depending on VSM you won’t be able to do it in silence and even a beholder with their anti-magic will shut them down. Paladins don’t have many non concentration spells they will be casting in battle if you wanted them to use those spells more just give them more. Glory Paladins can cause guiding bolt which is a great spell, more outside of combat spells too. Goes to say I won’t be having Smite be a spell outside of the other smite spells

[@codebracker]

Fortunately, most of the smite spells don't require concentration anymore

[@ericgropuis]

@@codebrackerTrue but won’t be able to stack a smite on top of a searing or thunderous smite anymore because both are leveled spells during the same turn atleast have to set it up and be slow

[@codebracker]

@@ericgropuis i mean you have to admit, smite stacking is a bit silly

[@ericgropuis]

@@codebracker Never found it that silly, always found it cool that you have divine light come out of your weapon on top of it being on fire it’s an awesome

[@codebracker]

@@ericgropuis seems a bit op, much like action surging 2 fireballs on the same turn

[@RPGFan253]

This quote from Crawford in this video really stood out at me: "In every case we wanted to take what is special about a class, protect it, amplify it and see if there are new ways we can allow you to engage with your class features and feel like in each case you are the most archetypal version of your class." Because it simply isn't true. Case in point: Paladin's smite. He took what was special and unique about paladin and nerfed it and limited it. If you run the numbers, it's not a minor nerf, especially if you're running something like polar master and have advantage. I've waited since AD&D for paladins to finally differentiate themselves from clerics. And was surprised to find that they finally did in 5e. But everything they've done to smite has completely reversed that. It's just extremely disappointing. I could also mention the massive nerf to Ancients' Aura of Warding. I have more examples from the play tests that I would like to gripe about, but I'm forcing myself to wait to see for sure if they made it to the official PHB. Actually, I can't help but mention one that I feel could be particularly egregious. He took away the reroll from stalker rangers Stalker's Flurry, but then turned around and give the same feature to the champion fighter (but better?). Which is why another quote from this video really stood out to me "I love playing this class", because he said the same thing about champion fighter. Edit: I didn't realize he took away the zealot's too- angry-to-die swagger. Another case in point...

[@jmd9402]

as a fighter main, I will never not be bitter about the fact we lost great weapon master and sharpshooter in their original form.

[@RPGFan253]

@@jmd9402 Oh great, yet another reason to be bitter

[@trise2033]

Obviously you don't understand what was actually special about Paladins.

[@RokuroCarisu]

​@@trise2033 Being a gish with the ability to use spell slots for straight-up bonus damage, _aka. smiting._

[@mpetrov2402]

Don't play paladins but they got shafted so bad I'm getting angry... I play fighters, bards, and warlocks and compared to the fighter got sooooo much more. Consider EK and reskin booming blade as smite.

[@Geologese]

"We want people to use something other than smite" Then maybe make control spells not save or suck and other options better value?

[@mattbriddell9246]

Awesome- there are 11 other classes that people can play if they want to do that :P

[@liegeutescher5408]

Agreed. It also felt weird to me that they decided to give free smites in order to free up spell slots to cast other things, when in reality it does nothing to incentivize people to do something else than use all slots into divine smites. Makes more sense to me to have divine smite be an ability with a limited amount of uses that are not tied to spell slots, so that paladins actually use their spell slots to do other things.

[@gorgit]

​​@@liegeutescher5408 Would either make them too strong, or limit their spellcasting and/or smites drastically. Id rather have full costumizability of how I wanna use my paladins strength, than always having 3 smites and 5 spellslots. Now I can still freely decide on a daily basis, whether I wanna use 6 smites, or 4 smites and 2 spells, or 1 smite and 5 spells, etc. This system is better by a LANDSLIDE.

[@someusername9591]

@@liegeutescher5408with this hard nerf to smite you might be better off using polearm master as you bonus action anyways.

[@gorgit]

​@@liegeutescher5408 that would be horrible. See why: Lets say our paladin now has 5 spellslots. He can use them for 5 smites, 5 spells, or anything inbetween. And he can do so on the fly, no preparation required. Each day, each fight, each turn he can decide. Now, going to your idea, lets say a paladin with the sane level would have 5 smites AND 5 spellslots. Now the class is broken, he has twice as many abilites per day as he used to have (mind you the paladin is really strong already). So we either have to sacrifice smites, spellslots or both. So lets do both, lets say he has 3 smites and 3 spellslots. Great, now my smite machine character can only use 3 smites instead of 5. He got 3 spells, but thats not what I wanted to play. Similiary now my paladin pure caster only gets 3 spells instead of 5. He doesnt care for smites, I'll never melee attack anyway. So in the end, at least one of these playstyles has to be sacrificed, maybe even both. So its a bad decision that makes every paladin either play the same, or make him much worse.

[@dhwright98]

can't wait for my Divine Smite to be counterspelled...

[@tantalus_complex]

I suppose we'll have to see if it has casting components other than a weapon. If its only requirement is the weapon as a material component, or the motion required to use the weapon as a somatic component, then it is basically as good as having been Subtle-cast.

[@HappyCatholicDane]

Or having it doing no damage to Tiamat because of spell damage immunity.

[@SirMcFluffyThe22nd]

if your smite is getting counterspelled that means your ally wizard won’t get their more impactful spell getting counterspelled. I don’t think countering smites is gonna be common unless your DM hates paladins lmao

[@TDWlive]

I'm also pretty sure you don't loose the spell slot if your counterspelled anymore

[@agjovik]

2014 paladin blasts rakshasas 2024 paladin flees from rakshasas.

[@pilgrimsplague8043]

I'm for sure going to let my players ignore that Divine smite as a spell bullcrap

[@Yeldibus]

Why? What's so bad about it?

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

@@Yeldibusif it’s a spell that means it can be counterspelled or nullified if the Paladin loses their arcane focus or is unable to use components. Imagine using your attack action, a spell slot AND a bonus action for massive damage and the dm just says no.

[@maddogs1989]

​@@YeldibusThe only way a Paladin keeps up with the other classes damage wise is through smite. However they are considered OP because they can do that damage faster. Once all smites are done A Paladin is just a Bad fighter damage wise.

[@walkerpierce5446]

​@@Yeldibus It breaks quite a few things, including barbarian multiclassing. You can't cast spells while raging, so no smiting with this version. Whereas previous or was a feature and therfore could be used while raging.

[@shayliakara]

@@maddogs1989 They never run out of smites, like ever. So, that is BS.

[@Masonic2299]

Do you want a class that will instill fright? Take up some plate and keep the goblins in sight, 'cause you want to make sure they eat this Paladin SMITE -JoCat

[@codebracker]

Push mastery + pushing manuever + thunderous smite = Shoot the target to a different zip code

[@trise2033]

@@codebracker GW2 Banish (Guardian Hammer 4)

[@firelordeliteast6750]

I miss him so much 😢

[@mattbriddell9246]

DeusvultDeusvultDeusvult... :D

[@Fralexion]

​@@firelordeliteast6750he's coming back!

[@nathanhedlund836]

With all these character options, monsters better be stronger too.

[@firelordeliteast6750]

They said they were reworking the monsters

[@tkelley004]

hoping monsters can use weapon mastery, the orc can slow or push you too...

[@yippeethreeeight]

Nah. Nobody wants there to be a risk that their character will die. So it will be a cakewalk like 5e. Betcha.

[@gorgit]

​@@yippeethreeeight that legitimately solely depends on the dm. I have never seen anyone use CR unironically anyway.

[@gorgit]

​@@tkelley004 If they dont, just let them have it. This is just a baseline, you can change it however you see fit.

[@KayKayLemur]

They really nerfed ancients paladin huh, not like that the aura feature was the main reason anyone took the subclass

[@katyprarie]

I'm guessing this is because some of the new monsters won't have 'spells' anymore but rather abilities that emulates spells and this is their way of trying to keep the damage resistance. But it's 3 rare damage sources so it's like 💀 ...why not elemental damage? Wherein the spells casted at around level 6-10 is most commonly those kind of damages anyways...idk...having to wait til you fight mindflayers to take less damage from the mindblast is... interesting

[@Lathaon]

Well, we weren't going to take it for that abysmal Channel Divinity at 3rd level, were we? It was basically just the Oath Spells at low levels. I'll miss the old aura. I don't think the new version will work out as a nerf as opposed to a sidegrade, but it feels more arbitrary.

[@conradkorbol]

This isn’t a huge nerf imo. Not all damage was spells and not all aoe is spells. I like this change as it feels more consistent even tho it’s not actually as good in some contexts

[@Zarkness25]

Find Steed idea: I hope they give a brief description of how mounted combat works in the spell description for Find Steed. Players don’t know how mounted combat works unless they’re built around mounted combat so it would be nice to have maybe an abridged description in the spell description so we don’t need to look it up every time a paladin casts the spell

[@Whimsykiller]

yea I think imma just pretend smite works the way it did before.

[@Rutarian]

They made it worse for sure lol.

[@fullmetalpotato1258]

If i run the 2024 rules at my table, I'm just going to run duvine smite as it was before as these changes are awful. They were unpopular in the playtest yet you kept those changes and made them WORSE. At least in the playtest we got all smite spells prepared for free, thats not in this version. Smite can now be counterspelled, takes up a bonus action so you can't be a dual wielding paladin unless you use daggers, its a spell you cant use it with a barbarian multiclass, etc. This change is awful and unwarranted. If you just wanted smite to be once per turn, just put a usage cap on it and keep it a class feature that was not a spell. This is the worst change I've seen so far since the 2014 rules.

[@thiagoknofel8982]

They could also adjust Paladin Smite to "once per turn you can cast one of these spells" and set Divine Smite's Casting Time to "immediately after hitting a creature with a melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike, no action required". Could be the better to mantain smites once per turn and still garantee the spell list versatility

[@eliascabbio7598]

I think that it's a bonus action that you take when you hit, so that's basically it

[@tristancotton7222]

@@eliascabbio7598 except you lose your BA. So many fun other features rely on a Bonus Action. Seems brutal to keep having to use your Bonus Action every turn you want to smite.

[@eliascabbio7598]

@@tristancotton7222 I undrestand, but actually you shouldn't cast spells every turn. It's like all other caster/martial hybrid now, I don't see why is it a problem. Moreover, we don't even know about the casting time it takes, they didn't say that

[@jonathankonderla7989]

If anything it would be a reaction when you hit something. Not a free action, which I prefer because then you're not using concentration on smites

[@thiagoknofel8982]

@@eliascabbio7598 Its a heavy nerf. Lay on hands, Oath features and other spell of The list (like aura of vitality) ALL use a Lot of your BA. Other classes skill can spamimg booming Blade every turno with other spells activated, making more Attacks and and use Its bonus acation to other features/spells. Some of these classes are better casters, with a Lot more Spell slots. The paladins weakness aways was its heavy dependency of expendeble resources. Now, above that, It Will need handle even more action economy. Just because The aura os a strong feature didnt mean Its a overpower classe...now Its even losing Its mechanichal niche to The Warlock (better Smite, better caster, better utilities and better number of Attacks per hound).

[@DrMintster]

Gotta love any change in mechanics that has people go, "This is stupid, we're just gonna ignore it." lol

[@ConstructedChaos]

Smite makes right.

[@shoganmajere7913]

it's comply not understandable, the one thing in the "beta" testing everone was complaining about ( Divine smite is now a spell ) makes it into the release. Are they out of their mind, don't they see, that this is making divine smite almost completly useless, as it is now possible to counterspell it ........

[@ConstructedChaos]

@@shoganmajere7913 I did notice that made it through. Did they say if it was still a bonus action to use it as well? Or does it at least still trigger on attack/hit?

[@eliascabbio7598]

@@shoganmajere7913 you truly are not following the developement, aren't you? 1. counterpell is now a CON save, and it doesn't waste your slot 2. it's an expected nerf, in the old edition a level 5 paladin could use 3 spells worth of slots in a turn, that was insane 3. divine smite is now exactly like every other smite, I don't see how it's useless...

[@takeshimovies5869]

@@eliascabbio7598 so counterspell is like maintain concentration now? Well, it's make sense. Now every other caster will want to have ALOT of CON

[@eliascabbio7598]

@@takeshimovies5869 kinda, also it's not just an auto spell cancelling effect, so it's more fair.

[@ChickenSoupMusic]

I think they’ve actually made the gap between martials and casters even bigger. Nerf smite, GWM, SShooter, and Multiclassing while also moving features further back in levels? GG all the things that were allowing martials to try and keep up.

[@Lathlaer]

I am amazed how he can talk about those nerfs with a straight face and package them as "upgrades". Yes, you get 1 free smite per day at the cost of it costing you a bonus action, not able to smite more than once per turn and not able to use it as your attacks of opportunity . Yes you get more channel divinity uses at the cost of Divine Sense now costing you one use when previously you could use it typically 3-4 times per day without worrying that it will take your CD uses. Stuff like Oath abilities not costing BA anymore and being free feels like an upgrade until you remember - again - that now using Divine Smite is a BA which means they did not upgrade them, they only made them usable in their new ecosystem.

[@rrrrthats4rs]

D&D is a collaborative story game, not a competitive arena shooter. DMs can make up as much or as little opposition as they want, so thinking about whether something is "Good" or not in terms of raw power seems really stupid???

[@Lathlaer]

@@rrrrthats4rs It's not stupid. It's still a game that should be balanced and balancing the power of classes is crucial. Something being bad in terms of raw power is undesirable because player should not be punished for wanting to fulfill a fantasy of a class that happens to suck in terms of mechanics. You have to remember that you do not need balancing against what the DM throws at you - you need balancing against other player choices. Players do not compete against each other in traditional sense but there absolutely is a possibility that one player has a stronger character that sidelines and overshadows everyone else. It's one of the reasons why point buy is overwhelmingly suggested as the superior choice to simply stat rolling. It's not because the DM has difficulties with a powerful PC - it's because the DM needs to work overtime when one PC is much stronger or weaker than the rest of the party. Therefore talking about whether something is rightfully nerfed or not is absolutely fine in the context of the game.

[@listen2theyetti]

​@@rrrrthats4rsi disagree with this. There are plenty of other games that don't have half the mechanics that d and d does (and always has). The story telling it still part of it but its only part. The other part is the "crunch" of building a character that works well within the mechanics. If you don't care about the numbers then thats fine for you but d and d was built to do both. Mind you I would say the same thing to someone who thinks the role playing part of d and d is stupid or pointless.

[@rrrrthats4rs]

@listen2theyetti im not saying don't care about the numbers, I'm saying that Paladins don't have any inherent power level. Their efficiency is invented by the dm contextual to the encounters. People who freak out about changes to classes in the abstract aren't thinking about actual games of D&D, they're creating whole campaigns and characters in their head ahead of time and probably not actually ever sitting at a table to play.

[@shinobitatsu]

​@@rrrrthats4rsactually I'm worried about its impact on shield Master, and I dont like loosing opportunity smites. But it's a wait and see game now.

[@DevinHandleyy]

Man. I am very excited about this handbook for literally EVERYTHING but Paladin. I hate what they did to Paladin. Forcing it to once per turn was a valid nerf. Was fine with that. Turning it to a BA seemed a little far. Turning it into a spell which now monsters with limited magic immunity, can counterspell, or are resistant to spells is too far imo. Likely won’t play pally anymore. Especially considering the smite spells were looking as good if not better than normal smite because of the added effects. That’s tough.

[@aquila1290]

yup they will be the rangers of 2024e. As far as I know, they are the only class that got any actual nerfs.

[@5-Volt]

It's the bonus action that kills it for me. I'm currently playing a Vengeance pali with Polearm master. My character completely falls apart with these rules. Lay on hands is a BA now? Cool. So I get my buddy up as a bonus action then go crit the bad guy and... too bad I can't smite because I already used my bonus action. Someone walks into my reach & I opportunity attack because of PAM? Can't smite because it's a reaction attack. I use my Vow of Enmity as a BA & attack with advantage? Can't smite because I used my BA already... I liked where they were going with picking a smite spell when you hit & having them all auto-prepped. The way the other smite spells work currently is clunky & this cleaned up the mechanics & made it simpler but making them all bonus actions & spells just absolutely ruined them. 😭

[@JazzyBassy]

@@5-Voltvow of enmity is not a BA anymore, it’s free. What they did so that Paladin doesn’t have much to compete for a bonus action is decrease the amount of features requiring it

[@Psuedo-Nim]

Improve the Class in multiple wats, take smiting down to once per tun instead of twice, and its broken. If someone wastes a counterspell on smite (Which Paladins get to save against under the playtest Counterspell rules) that's great! No rounds wasted on Channel divinity actions that boost attacks. Multiple channel divinities per short rest. Free 1st smite. Free Fidn speed. Expanded fighting styles, weapon mastery...hands down better class than the 2014 Paladin.

[@5-Volt]

@@JazzyBassy There's still a ton of feats, racial abilities & other class abilities that are BAs though. This just locks Paladins out of doing any of those in the same turn as a smite. I don't even care about the once per turn limitation. It's just the fact that it costs an action to attack, bonus action & spell slot to smite. Waaay too much of a resource tax.

[@chrism6315]

2024 update is mostly all good stuff, the divine smite being a spell now is a terrible nerf and whilst i acknowledge the council has made a decision, as its a stupid one im going to ignore it.

[@michaellaudani9948]

Can we counterspell smite now that it's a spell...? Yikes. The true hand of Veccna holds the strings at Wizards.

[@Manahyde]

Counterspell is probably getting that CON save nerf.

[@meiswaffle101]

@@Manahydetrue and you keep the slot but now you can only smite once per turn, can’t smite in an anti-magic field. If it has verbal components (in the test material it did) you can’t cast it in an area of silence. On top of that now monsters with limited magic immunity are just straight up immune to smite (Tiamat for example)

[@JoeyBilbo]

@@meiswaffle101it’s really not that bad. These are all things that other classes had to deal with. Now Paladin has to deal with it too, makes them less brain dead high damage. Coming from someone who just finished a year+ campaign as a Paladin who did double the damage of every other character every turn.

[@daegraith6524]

These videos are convincing me that I won't be able to just skim the new PHB for changes--it's going to be a full, careful rereading of each class.

[@DanTheYoutubeAddict]

I'm looking forward to the Wizard coverage since most of their abilities are spells.

[@jaymohunter5149]

Ive heard there havnt been many changes to the wizard, just added spells

[@danielv4793]

Please give to wiz the create spell and modification spell

[@Camote_Economics]

Fireball is now a Wizard non-spell ability unlocked at level 1!!!

[@loganreidy7055]

I really dont care about smite being a spell, I care a lot more about smite being a bonus action as was seen in the playtest

[@brysonflippin151]

Actually handicapping the class if it still cost a bonus action. Meanwhile a full spell caster can cast something like fireball or a crazy 9th level spell and deal more damage to more enemies AND still able use a bonus action. Like WTF

[@codebracker]

I mean all other smites already cost a bonus action in 5e, now divine smite matches the rest of smites

[@brysonflippin151]

@@codebrackerthen why is this a special Paladin ability if it’s the same as all of the other smites that other spell casters can learn? That would make it a pointless ability that’s baked into the class. Might as well play a cleric melee subclass and get 9th level spells

[@codebracker]

@@brysonflippin151 since in the UA all the smite spells are part of the class feature, I assume other spellcasters won't get smites on their spell list

[@Connor-N-Freeman]

I think he said you now cast it as part of your action, did he not?

[@Alex-rq8mh]

Rakshasa and other monsters with limited magic immmunity are now immune to paladin smite

[@HokkaidoMaster]

Spell immunity creatures are, IMO, a little silly so this change is fine with me.

[@Verd254]

We'll have to see if the new monster manual even keeps those monster features.

[@eliascabbio7598]

depends on how the monsters are redisigned

[@aquila1290]

I didn't even think about that. So now smites are just worse than ever, take up a bonus action that could've been used for a polearm master or GWM or some other type of bonus action attack or spell or even lay on hands, they can be counterspelled, and several creatures are now resistant or immune to them straight up. yay.

[@dwil0311]

This is a good thing.

[@Judas_Iscariote]

But now, with the change to smite as spell... The Pal can smite only once per round. Why not giving him smite options just like warlock invocations?

[@walkerpierce5446]

I do not like some of these changes. For instance, making divine smite a spell COMPLETELY breaks multiclassing with Barbarian since you can't cast spells while raging. Previously you could still smite while raging since it was a feature and not a spell.

[@J4J0]

It defies belief, how an upgraded aura of alacrity is still so apathetically lackluster. Who gives a damn about an extra 10 ft. of movement, compared to damage resistances, +2 AC, saving throw bonus...

[@life-destiny1196]

One situation where it may matter is the case of the Paladin diving in to a bunch of creatures to save a squishy who got caught out of position, or a friendly NPC in similar dire circumstances. That extra movement speed may let them disengage more safely. And, mind you, that's only the subclass aura--they're still getting the saving throw bonuses and everything else in the core class, your opportunity cost is just the other subclass' effects.

[@J4J0]

@@life-destiny1196 I AM comparing it to just other subclass' aura effects! Others seem to be on par with mass level1-2 spell effects, but this one is literally 2 extra squares. For being so extremely situational, I'd expect it to knock some socks off, yet here we are.

[@HappyCatholicDane]

@@life-destiny1196How can a paladin save a squishy, when it is just a worse fighter mixed with a worse cleric. I don’t see myself ever playing this version of paladin.

[@EditorOrion]

The power creep of this edition is concerning. I hope monsters are rebalanced.

[@Graccus1330]

They changed great weapon master to remove the damage. They changed sharpshooter to remove damage. They nerfed smite to once per turn and it takes a bonus action, so it's less compatible with damage bonus abilities like polearm master. You think things are getting stronger? They're getting evened out.

[@someusername9591]

The floor has been raised, but the ceiling has been lowered quite a bit with the nerfs to Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter. That is the case for martials at least, still waiting to see the spell changes to see if casters received the same treatment or if they are going to continue being gods for another edition

[@androlgenhald476]

The amount of work they want through just to make sure everything worked by making DS a BA spell is incredible. If they wanted to nerf it, all they had to do was add a line saying you could only do it once a turn. Then at least you could use your BA on some other cool thing.

[@JasonCoulston]

Indeed. Which makes the “this is just a money ploy” crowd seem so misinformed and misguided. Like, you realize there are probably ten thousand development hours here aside from the new artwork they paid for, right?

[@JakeCoker-gw1ii]

This feels like the correct way to nerf divine smite if it even needed a nerf.

[@forgot-to-log-out]

Wellfrom what i understand they made it a spell to put it in line wi other smite like spells probably also buffing those

[@frking100]

@@JasonCoulston This is just a money ploy. Or if there is "ten thousand development hours" they where very poorly managed. Just compare this with any of the new reworked pathfinder classes, Baldurs gate reworks, or the 1 million fan reworks of classes, and you can see how dnd dropped the ball. I recommend reading on the reworked champion (pathfidner equivalent to paladin)

[@Alassandros]

Man, if Smites are spells now, I won't be able to Smite as a Barbarian-Paladin multiclass anymore. That sucks.

[@loganreidy7055]

Don't worry, smite takes your bonus action now too

[@Staticsheep28]

Zealot barbarian still exists.

[@Alassandros]

@@Staticsheep28 And? It's not the same.

[@Staticsheep28]

@@Alassandros It isn't but if divine smiting while raging is your only concern, which it seems to be based on what you said, than be a zealot barbarian that multiclasses with Paladin. Zealots get a once per turn psuedo smite while raging, amd while not raging you can still use all the spells you want.

[@Alassandros]

@@Staticsheep28 I don't want to be locked to Zealot, man. I'm playing a Bear Totem-Glory Paladin right now and now it doesn't work with one of its main offensive features.

[@RandomCrappyName]

I really don’t like making smites a spell. Feels real bad thinking of getting a dope crit on a Lich and wanting to pump that smite… only to get counterspelled.

[@someusername9591]

With the Counterspell nerf it should be a lot harder to counter a pali, especially at high levels

[@dajhier1]

People keep saying this but truly are you going to counterspell the Paladin and their sword or the wizard casting a 6th level fireball on your bbeg and all of their minions?

[@someusername9591]

@@dajhier1 yeah, really worried that this version has only lowered martial ceiling and not touched the more problematic spells. I really don’t want another edition of caster supremacy. 😔

[@anthonywalden239]

Counterspell now has a saving throw which will make Paladin's really good at avoiding it so it's quite likely that if you bait out a counterspell you'll end up using up a spell slot or per day use and still smiting.

[@dwil0311]

If a lich is counterspelling your paladin's smite, then you've won the encounter.

[@johnborneman8468]

It is funny how they totally gloss over the nerfing of Divine Smite and the divided opinions on that. I like almost everything they have done with the Paladin, but not real happy about the divine smite. Honestly, i have played a Paladin for a couple years and the current divine smite never really took over an encounter.

[@jeremyjacobsen7600]

I'm hoping Divine Smite isn't a spell. I could understand the move and I'll eventually get used to it, but man, imagine having your smite counterspelled or not being able to smite cause you're silenced

[@rudy_kagura]

sorry, bro)

[@libertylion6088]

Yeah, not happy at all that they turned the smite into an actual spell. This whole change is a huge nerf to the divine smite at many levels. Giving them 1 extra freebee does not counter this huge nerf.

[@mjsstujo1]

Any party should be elated that a monster would waste a counter spell on a smite

[@icetang97]

@@mjsstujo1unless it was a critical smite…

[@mrgrumpit]

Well you cant crit smite if it's a bonus action spell

[@Knight_Marshal]

Anyone notice the the paladin at 3:53 is holding her hammer backwards?

[@Deiniel91]

It looks like the artist wanted to make look like the paladin made an upper cut style of a swing, but fudged up the hand positioning. Artist knows how to draw, but clearly doesnt know how you hold or swing a hammer.

[@Manahyde]

Maybe she's switched to piercing damage

[@androlgenhald476]

Lol, same. I was staring at it trying to figure out what the artist was trying to convey

[@Camote_Economics]

Damn, the AI do be glitching

[@fallenphoenixiv]

While there were a lot of good changes in this class. With this version of smite, my group has all but agreed that we will not be using this version of smite. I will say that limiting it to once per turn or by turning into a spell was good, but also requiring as a bonus action was too much.

[@jessebutler9352]

Yeah my polearm master Sorlock was basically a smite vending machine and that’s all over in this edition.

[@captainrelyk]

Turning it into a spell is bad. It means it cos be counter-spelled (which doesn’t make sense), it can’t be used underwater or in a silence spell, and worst of all, you wont be able to smite rakshashas or Tiamat. Which is absurd. A fiend can’t be smited… and a Paladin serving Bahamut can’t smite Tiamat

[@fallenphoenixiv]

Yeah I'm not fully on board with turning it into a spell either because of the reasons you brought up, but it is an easy way to nerf feature in not too many words.

[@connorwells1855]

​@fallenphoenixiv Once per turn, I think it is good enough in my opinion I like how Wizards was just like " hmmmmm people say paladin smite is broken so what do we do" one guy: Balance it accordingly so that it has the same growth potential as our other class reworks?" 'Guy gets thrown out a window' Other guy: How bout we make it clunky and eat up action economy more than anything and limit emencly what a paladin could do in a turn? WOC: Give this guy a yacht the players will love that!🤑

[@fallenphoenixiv]

@connorwells1855 that really does seem like how it was handled. 🤣

[@WearingGoldluck]

Man, I think we all knew a smite nerf was coming with how the playtest was looking but I didn’t think that they would go for the hardest nerf that could come up with. It consuming your bonus action is just going to make it as unpopular as the other bonus action smite spells. I feel like making it once per turn was a much better alternative that didn’t completely defang most Paladin builds, as I really feel that the only viable build for them is going to be sword and shield (or other one-handed weapons) and they’re going to solely slot into a defensive/support role in parties or the the few offensive builds that will exist will largely just ignore Divine Smite and Paladin’s Smite for most of their careers.

[@SleepyWolfProd]

I don't like smite being made a spell. It makes it so it can be counter spelled, and so that bards and such would be able to get smite in their spells.

[@Jedibigfoot]

why did they keep the smites as a bonus action change? it makes everything more clunky and you then have to move everything around to avoid bonus action and thrn they still have troo much to do with their bonus action. if you want to limit smites just say its once per turn and be done with it! smiting with unarmed is cool but I think ill just use the 2014 paladin and let them punch smite 🤷‍♂

[@codybeaird2918]

It also means it can't be used a reaction. So a Paladin Mage Slayer can't really do the cool, smite as the caster does a spell. It's weird. Is this to make multiclassing less desirable?

[@pixelated.dreams]

Yeah, i have a Barb/Paladin which can do three attacks a turn and i could smite on all 3, if its just once now its not fun.

[@Google_Corporation]

I think that might be a bit of an intentional nerf... Paladin has nuts burst damage, and while it can feel really cool for a player to drop a ton of damage on an enemy at once, stuff like that can trivialize fights on the GM side. I think the new changes still allow the crazy burst damage fantasy, but raises it's performance floor (once for free per day) while lowering its ceiling. Also, if you still want to be able to do multiple of these at once, I think there might be some interesting multi class play between paladin and the new Eldritch Knight's abilities... It will depend on exact wording, but it's possible that EK's "replace attack with spell" option may allow double smites.

[@lordvolland1930]

Smite was op, bonus action is fine. It's good when you need to choose, it's interesting

[@pixelated.dreams]

@@Google_Corporation that’s actually a good point. Being cable to cast a level one spell as well as hitting on the first one with smite is pretty decent.

[@gregboyd529]

No one liked Smite being a spell why heck did you keep it?

[@binolombardi]

I believe it was one of the features that they identified as needing to be capped regarding total damage potential. Divine smite was one of the game features they were going to nerf regardless of what the community said. impact of surprise was one of those features too. sharpshooter/great weapon feats were on the list too.

[@Sepiriel]

Because whether we want to admit it or not it was a feature that was not good for the health of the game. Treantmonks commentary about it was right, the game needs smites to change and making them spells was the right choice

[@goattron]

@@Sepiriel wrong

[@codebracker]

I liked it

[@codebracker]

​@binolombardi I really hope sharpshooter looses the ability to ignore cover, it's just op

[@Heroic_Quests]

My gut tells me smite requiring your bonus action will be annoying. I'll hold off on making any judgements about the change however until I get the final book in my hands and at the table.

[@TheSkyrimfreak]

Paladins got a huge nerf, smites being a bonus action/once per turn sucks. These guys obviously didn’t understand that absolutely dumping smites on enemie’s heads was what was fun about paladins in the first place……

[@Psuedo-Nim]

Maybe people should learn how to play a paladin effectively. Simple smites with every attack is wasteful and inefficient--and paladins are way more than just smiting.

[@TheSkyrimfreak]

@@Psuedo-Nim OK 👍🏻

[@lobiankk77]

​@@Psuedo-Nim🤓

[@JaviusSama]

One thing you haven't changed that you should have is the fact that you take your oath at THRID level. The paladin is NOT a fighter, the paladin is a warrior that gets their power from their strong belief in a cause. Making the oath at leverl 3 makes no sense.

[@5-Volt]

They're also doing this for Clerics, Warlocks & Sorcerers.. Awful storytelling & flavor.

[@brilobox2]

They are also explicitly recommending that characters start at 3rd level unless they have never played before.

[@MentalCrusader]

So divine smite can get countered now?

[@TheSkyrimfreak]

Yes

[@Z00PG00P]

@@Verd254the fiend about to get hit with a critical hit divine smite isn’t going to think it wasted a counterspell

[@ArturoGonzalez-st7xj]

yes, Rakshasas also laugh at all your smites with Limited Magic Immunity

[@snakeinabox7220]

@@Verd254 at higher lvs , casters / enemy casters have far more Spell slots then a paladin , counter spelling a 3rd lv Smite is a net negative for the paladin , since they have way less spell slots .

[@eliascabbio7598]

@@Z00PG00P Ok, which is a very specific case, and which could happen also to the cleric who was casting Banishment, losing all his action while doing it, and in both cases it would require a CON save. and the spell slot won't be wasted.

[@shawnmayo8210]

I don't think anyone was missing spells at level 1, which is the fastest level to move on from. The spell slinger over fighter option is nice for customization. Access to all styles is iffy. That detracts from the Fighter's class benefit there. Robust? Sure. But everyone option? Not so much. Eminations seems like an unnecessary label. Are we now going to see another boiling down to this? Are we going to MTG our way to nit-picky abilities, spells and counters to this newly named but always existing in many variants feature? Also, "Auras have been moved from a main window to sub-tabs" isn't really doing much.

[@PauLtus_B]

While I do personally really like getting a "free steed" I can imagine there might still be Paladin players who are not into having a steed.

[@kozmayhem7520]

Every Paladin player I DM for has requested not to use your changes to divine smite and I agree. The worse player effected at my tables was a girl playing PAM zealot barbarian/ vengeance paladin. Her whole character would become useless and wouldn’t work. Also nobody gives a damn about a free casting of find steed.

[@harley_o_thor]

vengance paladin capstone was already an hour... silly crawford

[@dwil0311]

Now it's 10 minutes in the new PHB.

[@libertylion6088]

Paladins are about to find out how it felt to be a ranger for the last 10 years. 😒

[@jessebutler9352]

lol I was just listening to this and thinking that I might as well try playing a ranger now.

[@Simon_Laserna]

How come?

[@megaairsoft15]

I don’t see how? None of these changes are bad.

[@Alex-rq8mh]

Paladins damage is now really bad unless they use 2 weapon fighting and go 12 paladin and 8 sorcerer

[@Pavel-wj7gy]

Curious to see if Gloomstalker gets nerfed.

[@AkselGAL]

So let me see.... how did max-damage changed... Being an level 5 Paladin, getting haste, have Polearm Master and Heavy Weapon Mastery. Assuming strenght 15 Enemy comes to me. I give out one attack or opportunity, three regular attacks and the polearm end as a bonus action. D&D 5E, two times 1W10+3W8 (2nd Level spell smite)+12, two times 1W10+2W8 (1st Level spell smite) + 12, one time 1W4+2W8 (1st Level spell smite) + 12. Combined: 4W10 + 10W8 + 1W4 + 60 D&D 5.5E, one time 1W10+3W8 (2nd Level spell smite)+12, three times 1W10 + 12, no bonus action attack Combined: 4W10 + 3W8 + 48 Averaged damage: 5E: 125 5.5E: 79 And with each higher spell grade, the gap widens. Is anyone really thinking, Paladin players will go for the 5.5 version instead of the 5e version?

[@Palefox11]

Say iconic one more time.

[@JakeCoker-gw1ii]

So Find Steed is incredible but I have had some paladins who I have not wanted to use it because it just didn't fit the RP I was going for and I didn't want to manage another creature on the field (even though it was basically free and for optimizing purposes you should always use it). Since this is now being packed into the class itself, are Paladins basically always expected to be built around having a steed at their side? Feels a bit like what felt optional has now become like a mandatory play style.

[@KevinVideo]

Agreed. Having this new find steed should have been a subclass, not a main class feature. Unless Mounted Combat is the bestest thing ever compared to 2014, I can't see my players ever using it. And if the campaign takes place in various right dungeons, then even less likely you're ever going to use the spell.

[@WellManNerd]

Drop the steed to turn your smites into non-spells again Solve all the problems

[@ODDnanref]

So you can just ignore it? Find steed was usually an auto-pick. Most of the paladin is already good enough without find steed and the benefits of the steed are to situational to balance around them always being present. So they have not. The changes don't seem to be a balance around Paladin always having find steed.

[@Google_Corporation]

I think this would be a good opportunity for the class level up options we saw in Tasha's, where you can choose to get this improved find steed, or focus on something else.

[@JakeCoker-gw1ii]

@@Google_Corporation Yeah I like that a lot. I actually think a full subclass built around it would be really cool too like if you were wanting to play that type of character there is a pretty obvious style that fits what you want to do. I am really excited to see what they do with mounted combat in the new version and excited to try how the new paladin plays. Its obviously a bit early to hate any changes they make without seeing how it interacts with the rest of the game.

[@HappyCatholicDane]

Paladin have often been mentioned as the 5e class, that had the highest approval rating. Meaning people have fun playing them. But with these changes, the paladin will be the 2024 Ranger. Not going to play as one, and certainly going to homebrew it if I am the dm.

[@JoeyBilbo]

I’m glad you discovered how dnd works. If you don’t like something. Change it. Stop complaining.

[@HappyCatholicDane]

@@JoeyBilbo Homebrew requires dm approval, meaning not likely to happen at most tables. Certainly not in adventure league. If you like the changes,,then good for you. I don’t, and I will continue to complain for as long as I want.

[@JoeyBilbo]

@@HappyCatholicDane who uses adventure league as the standard for a game of DnD???

[@senatorarmstrong5596]

They really didn't get the memo with the warnings of divine smite as a feature, keep it the same it's class warping, change it to balance it and it becomes bad. Just keep it or scrap it because the delicate touch of balancing needed is seemingly lacking.

[@colexian]

"These aura effects like the aura for paladins or other auras didnt have a name, so we are naming it.... emanations" But why? Aura was right there.

[@Lycaon1765]

literally tho, he says it like as if this is a new invention lmao

[@colexian]

@@Lycaon1765 And then he says the word "aura" like he is trying to win a bet, make it a drinking game

[@NajaSide]

@@colexian Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but it seems to me like he's referring to general aoe effects that act similarly to the Paladin Aura. The Paladin Aura is a specific type of emanation, and calling the broader term the same thing as an aura may be like to cause confusion. That was you can just say aura rl quick and easy if you're talking specifically about the Paladin effect whereas if you're talking about the effect in general without specifically referring to the Paladin's, emanation is what the rulesbook would be talking about. In the middle of gameplay, it obviously literally would not matter. It's just a clarification so you know what exactly the book would be referring to if it happens to need to bring up one or the other.

[@chaoslordlordofchaos]

​@@NajaSide100%. It let's you separate paladin auras from spells, etc. that also emanate. Otherwise you'd have several other things making an aura, but it's different from the already name paladin ability auras. As is, the first thought of an aura is something that emanates from yourself, ie a paladin's aura. Just prevents possible confusion.

[@borofreak]

Finally, it's to also properly codify the game. Now, when another ability of spell says "Emanation", you know exactly what that means. It also lets different spells and effects interact better. For example, now you'd be able to specify that a certain spell or effect "blocks/suppresses emanation spells" or increases/reduces their range.

[@NHGorman]

Smite as an actual cast spell AND a bonus action? No thanks. In fact, you just gave me my table's first house rule for the new PHB (assuming any of us even use the 2024 Paladin over the 2014 version). . . All it needed to keep it from being as (admittedly) overpowered as it was initially was a "once -per-turn" limitation like the Rogue's sneak attack.

[@williamtorres4140]

What made it overpowered when compared to any full caster? Especially the Wizard

[@pixelated.dreams]

@@williamtorres4140 Multiclass Paladin with Fighter could get 3 attacks at 11, few levels in paladin and you could smite every time you swung a weapon

[@aidencaterwall9146]

@@pixelated.dreams yeah with like 2 first level spell slots. Any sort of gaming for extra attacks was balanced by the fact that you'd burn all your spell slots or not have the spell slots in the first place.

[@Xorrin]

@@pixelated.dreams That's it tho, a paladin/fighter has few spell slots than a full class and even if you hit all the time you'll waste all your resources included action surge. A wizard could cast a lot of fireballs at that level, much stronger

[@skalra63]

​@@aidencaterwall9146agreed. When we're playing we rarely have a long rest so my paladin has to ration his spell slots. I get the feeling people play with a long rest before each encounter so always have their spells available.

[@zoberraz]

Not a fan of Paladin's Smite. It being a spell applies constraints that were not there before (i.e.: can't combine it with Healing Word as a bonus action). Not to mention Rakshasas will shrug it off, unless the smite is upcasted up to 7th-level (impossible for a single-class paladin).

[@richryanjames]

Not to mention them making lay on hands a bonus action at the same time. They really said “Hope you never want to have a free bonus action ever again.”

[@Bookworm159]

I actually really like it. I always felt that paladins were overtuned, and now it feels more strategic, where you're deciding what bonus action would help most this turn. Do you want to smite for more damage? Or lay on hands to drop a huge chunk of healing on someone? Or summon a spiritual weapon because the enemy is flying? As for Rakshasas, they've always been a little bit weird. Especially the vulnerability to specifically piercing damage from good aligned characters. So weird.

[@brilobox2]

Magic immune creatures nullify every spell a full caster has before 11th level. Why were Paladins allowed to ignore that with the feature that made them busted? Did they not cast magic? It says right there, spellcasting. I’ll tell you why: Paladins have been way overtuned since 2014.

[@richryanjames]

@@Bookworm159 Except you already made the choice between smiting and lay on hands in 5e because they both were part of incompatible actions. Before you could smite and healing word in the same turn of you had the build for it, but that’s gone now. Lay on hands being a bonus action would make it more versatile, but making it and smite a bonus action brings us back to neutral and means it will be unlikely that we will use our bonus action for anything else.

[@richryanjames]

@@brilobox2 Ah yes we should help the poor underpowered spellcasters. The paladin was the only martial or half caster keeping up with the full spellcasters. They’re buffing all those other classes to help them keep up. Sucks that they are nerfing the paladin into the ground at the same time. Remember this isn’t just one nerf to smite. They didn’t just make smite a spell. They made it spell, made it so you can only use it once per turn, made it so it takes your bonus action, and made it so you can’t use it on an opportunity attack. I could maybe see a couple of these nerfs being reasonable, but all of them is insane

[@zanealexander3205]

Paladin is so strong already, but I feel like divine sense should just be a passive always active ability. Just maybe a disguised or nondetection can fool it. Feels bad using a resource to be like, any Undead around?

[@barcster2003]

They give you more though. So yes you may not use divine sense as often but it's better and gave you more channels per day.

[@Empty_Carbon]

​@@barcster2003it actually doesn't. You get to use it up to your charisma modifier amount of times + 1 so presumably at least twice even if you didn't bump your charisma past the multi-classing requirements. You do get to use it for longer however which will change how one would use it but realistically it will never give you more uses than it did in the 2014 phb.

[@barcster2003]

@@Empty_Carbon you get more channels and it's longer so it's somewhat similar. If you don't use divine sense you effectively gained two channels.

[@T0beyeus]

The old PHB Paladin subclasses now lose a Channel Divinity option in their subclass whereas the Oath of Glory still gets their Inspiring Smite and Peerless Athlete abilities. Nothing was mentioned but I hope that they replaced the lost Channel Divinity options. It would have been nice to see each of them get a non-combat Channel Divinity option.

[@captainrelyk]

“Non combat”, not with Jeremy Crawford. Jeremy and the rest of rest of WoTC are focused on wargamey bs now. No more “+10 to persuasion” for redemption paladins.

[@binolombardi]

Con: smite does seem to be able to be counterspelled now. counterspell is now a save for the target. Paladin aura of protection should make attempting to counterspell a smite very unreliable and expensive. Smite having a vocal component completely shuts it down by Silence spell. Bonus action req prevents it from being used on reaction attacks too. Mixed feelings. “Once per turn” would have been fine.

[@tylerford5720]

Paladin smite giving a spell option now means no Paladin barb combo for raging smite :(

[@Rexir2]

Yeah... Divine Smite being changed into a spell is a nerf. Anything with the Limited Magic Immunity feature is now immune to a paladin's smite.

[@TheArchmike]

Changing the ancient aura fron resistance to spell damage to 3 rare damage types is not an "enhancement"

[@saberaq]

A lot of the new monsters don't actually cast spells anymore. It's not impossible for an Ancients Paladin atm to use the aura maybe once during an entire campaign

[@smiteysmite2368]

Sooo Smite is a spell now, which means it can be counterspelled

[@nintendolegoboy]

Counterspell is going to be nerfed though, let's be real.

[@smiteysmite2368]

@@nintendolegoboy that's true

[@grantparker6047]

Not to mention, burning a reaction and a spell slot to stop 5d8 damage at really high levels isn't the best use of an enemy spell caster's action economy.

[@Smasherv15]

Counterspell has been changed most likely, it certainly was in UA

[@gorgit]

@@grantparker6047 It would be decent on a crit, but then again, its a counterspell. Id say its fair.

[@TechFrog88]

Why do paladins, who get their powers from their oath and are not full casters, require components for their spells… Why not just bake smite and certain spells into the class as features?

[@davidinserra1965]

Paladin was my favorite class. Won’t be rolling this version with BA smites. I get the pally was strong and wasn’t going to get buffed and might even get nerfs. So I’m fine with once per turn and I’m even ok with making it a spell (although that denies the barabarian multiclass) but using a BA clashes with BA spells, BA feats (like GWM, PAM, Shield Master) and other BA things like potions or lay on hands. Smite is literally in conflict with so much of the rest of the game that it forces the pally to forgo various multiclasses or other customization uses. I’ll ask to use and when I DM suggest we house rule the 2014 paladin but only add the weapon mastery. Very sad.

[@brilobox2]

Everything you mentioned is also subject to change. Hope they nerf GWM and PAM.

[@jaylensmith9826]

They did my Oath of the Ancients dirty give us back spell resistance

[@ArturoGonzalez-st7xj]

The new aura is bad, the only common damage type there is Necrotic, Radiant is almost non-existent and Psychic is very uncommon.

[@darkmoon2503]

It’s also weird because the new Ancients aura makes FAR more sense on Watchers.

[@kingzseventh7017]

The old aura is average as heck

[@redstorm8373]

At higher levels, I feel like this is actually going to be better, since high level mobs rarely actually use spells, but instead use abilities that act like spells, but would have bypassed the old aura.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

Smite being a spell means RIP Barb smiting? And also RIP with Ranger stacking? Maybe it’s more of an issue with the core system aggravated through that loss, but oof

[@pixelated.dreams]

Yeah thats made me salty. my Barbadin is not a happy women.

[@codebracker]

I hope the ranger spells also work like the new smite, instead of concentration

[@ArturoGonzalez-st7xj]

Divine smite is now the second worst 1st level damaging spell after witch bolt. It is melee range it deals 2d8 damage and it costs an action and a bonus action to use.

[@waitthatsillegal.7552]

Zealot Barbarian Paladin multiclass sadly is dead thanks to Divine Smite being a spell. Which cannot be cast while raging. If you guys don't want Divine Smite to be used more then once per turn, prohibit it. If you want the first smite a day for free, grant it. But the smite should not be a spell imo. I would appreciate compatibility with rage here. I like the improvements on steed as well as channel divinity though, nice choices there.

[@markalexander6036]

The biggest nerf to the Smite is the fact that it is a bonus action to activate. That means you can only use it once per round and it eats up your action economy, which is a serious nerf. I wouldn't worry so much about Counterspell since that spell is gonna be nerfed anyway. Besides, Paladins are going to be very hard to Countersspell given their Aura of Protection. Enemies will more likely prioritize using Counterspell on the dedicated casters.

[@Pandormu]

its also a spell now, so only once a turn even if your dm is nice and gave you another BA via a potion or something. and some demons/fiends/celestials are immune to spells of x or below,

[@markalexander6036]

​@@Pandormu To be clear, I understand why people are upset by all these nerfs, but most of them feel kind of irrelevant. Enemies with spell immunity? How often do those enemies show up? You think the spellcasters have an easier time fighting that? I'd argue the Paladin has a lot more going for them in those rare encounters. You can still hit them twice with your magical melee weapon, benefit your whole party with aura of protection, and Lay on Hand your allies for 50 hitpoints when they go down. Paladins will be contributing just fine against those super rare anti-spellcaster encounters. Like the Counterspell issue, I'm not convinced that spell-immune enemies is a super relevant issue for the new Paladin. I rest my case that the most relevant nerf by far is that you have to spend a bonus action for Smite, limiting it's use to once per turn, and eating up your available actions.

[@BurntBrioche]

This Smite hurt is my favorite line for any Paladin to say

[@pitviper6652]

I am sorry but the changes the late game 15th level, Undying Sentinel, or buffs to the useless single target save or suck channel divinity, Nature’s Wrath, can offset the nerf to Aura of Warding. Resistance to all spell damage is just too good compared to resistance to Radiant, Psychic, and Necrotic. I want to be able to use Nature's Wrath, but it costing an action to be single target sucks when Entangle is far superior. The buffs to Undying Sentinel are great but come on too late to compensate for a weaker early-mid game where most games are played. I absolutely love the aesthetic and concepts of Oath of Ancients but the only thing I could feel proud of mechanically was being able to walk through a Wall of Fire and shrug off spells.

[@danfelder8062]

If the goal is to relieve paladins of their spell slot pressure, why give a free divine smite instead of a free something eles? Giving a free divine smite doesn't address the issue of players feeling obligated to save their spell slots for smites. They have more smites available per day which does help a little but if the goal is to make it okay to use other spells, it'd be better to give them a free bonus slot they can only use on other spells (not divine smite). If it's a thematic issue, can give them one of each for thematic balance.

[@brightwall-]

Look at the comments. People are not happy. Why have you continued with this?

[@takeshimovies5869]

24:52 But it WAS 1 hour long, there is no change

[@1Lanavis1]

True. Lbr, he probably didn't realize that and is just reading from cue cards written by someone wanting to make everything seem great

[@ODDnanref]

​@@1Lanavis1 It was 10 min in the UA rework. He probably is talking about that

[@dwil0311]

There is a change. It's now 10 minutes in the new PHB.

[@ODDnanref]

@@dwil0311 No, it is an hour in the new phb. The 10 minutes was from the UA

[@dwil0311]

@@ODDnanref No, it's 10 minutes in the new PHB.

[@stefanhuddleston6816]

If I had to guess using the current Smite is going to be a super common house rule.

[@syvajarvi2289]

A lot of folks are fussing about the bonus action economy of the updated Paladin. As a Ranger player, welcome to the party….. We have had to pick and choose BA economy wisely since 2014 as well as felt the pain of concentration eating spells limiting what we can do in combat because most of the good ranger spells are currently concentration based and are also single use using concentration to hold the effect until you use it….. which then allows you to stack damage once per turn if you hit.

[@Malisteen]

so multiclass paladins & non-paladins will still get sooner and better access to the paladin's signature smite and special steed features. I was really hoping that was something they would fix.

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

The fact that divine smite is a spell now means that it can be counter spelled or nullified if the Paladin is unable to use the components or use their arcane focus. Imagine spending your attack action, a spell slot, AND a bonus action for a massive divine smite and the DM could potentially just say no. I dare say most people will ignore the new rule and just say smite still works the same way it always has.

[@alejandrofernandez1324]

Imagine your dm ever saying NO

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

@@alejandrofernandez1324 that’s what features like counterspell can sometimes feel like.

[@leahbeah1585]

1st of all I wouldn’t be shocked at all if counterspell is also getting nerfed into the ground or straight up removed. 2nd I seriously doubt if your party/dm are playing smartly that a smite is ever gonna get counterspelled. Casters have so many spells that are so much scarier and more threatening than you getting a couple extra d8s on your attack

[@michaelrizzo7342]

Just great now the paladin's key feature can be counterspelled while a lot of the magical monsters get effectively immunity to counterspell by changing their spells to abilities. Whose dumb idea was that.

[@elliotbryant3459]

divine smite can now be counterspelled?....... Also sad that the ancients aura is just 3 niche resistances now...

[@cmdrcoveryfire5900]

I'm really looking forward to Cleric now

[@cubancavalier3051]

Does smite being a spell now mean it can be counterspelled?

[@barcster2003]

Yes but people are really worried about a unlikely scenario.

[@Robin-bn9in]

Such a sharp cut at the end, the whole reason I was watching was for my favourite vengeance and then boom, nope, we cut most of that out

[@unknowncomic4107]

After watching the other class videos I keep coming back to Paladin. I think the Divine Smite changes were a mistake. Being able to stack a smite on top of a crit was a MAJOR flavor for the class. With it now being a spell, it seems it has been watered down in favor of "allowing" (making) Paladins use their spells more often. A cleric with just one or two feats can do pretty much what a Paladin does and do it better with more spell slots and higher level spells. This is assuming that the spell progression for Pallys hasn't changed and that the smite spell is a regular action spell and not a bonus action etc. Weapon Mastery? Not a significant enough thing to tip the scale in choosing a Pally over a Cleric.

[@wizardsling]

So is (divine) smiting only once per turn? Does it cost a bonus action?

[@KevinVideo]

It costs a bonus action after you hit a foe. It's basically verbatim to the One D&D playtest.

[@soulbleach3077]

“Divine Smite is now a spell” • Smite can be counterspelled • Smite can only be used once per turn (one leveled spell a turn so no stacking smite spells and divine smite) • Smite will cost a bonus action • Can no longer be viable with a barbarian multiclass (can’t cast spells in rage) • Can’t smite on opportunity attacks or sentinel attacks (aka a lot of fun dps builds) • Can’t smite in a silence spell (smites cost verbal components) • Smite spells are concentration so say goodbye to having any concentration spells up and using smite (aka the amazing Vengeance Paladin combo Hold Person and Smite on auto crits) “Why?” I’m currently playing in a 3 year long campaign my friends and I have poured are hearts into. We were planning on swapping to the new rule books and have been more than excited to switch over. I’m planning a barbarian who multiclassed into paladin for heavy story reasons though. It’s legitimately heartbreaking to see these changes for paladin and now I can’t see anyone playing this multiclass.

[@amaryliz2067]

You use a bonus action immediately after hitting to add the smite, so I assume the new "Divine Smite" spell is not concentration. Still super limiting though

[@albertrobles2498]

Just don't use the new rules. Run your character the same. If the new rules are "backwards compatible" then there shouldn't be any issues. The rule book is just some other guy's homebrew

[@soulbleach3077]

@@albertrobles2498 Unfortunately that’s something I’ll be forced to do. Was really looking forward to playing with new changes, but this is what I get for getting my hopes up.

[@ivandovadzija2542]

Now a question, he mentioned that the Paladin gets a free smite and free find steed a day... but at what spell slot? The max you have unlocked or 1? (Since we all know what a spell slot 5 smite does in comparison to a spell slot 1) :D

[@bartm2811]

Paladins can choose to ignore Fighting Style and take Cleric cantrips instead did they forget blessed warrior? which was paladin exclusive already

[@Xorrin]

They're talking about that, it's just that blessed warrior was not introduced in the player book