New Refractometer For Homebrewers Anton Paar SmartRef

[@MetalGuru785]

Hi David. I’ve gone and bought one of these and while I find it good for measuring OG, my FG measurements are way off the scale compared to an anologue hydrometer. I’m guessing the Smart Ref isn’t allowing for alcohol correction. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong please?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi, you need to make a log of the sg at the start and then the end. If you are doing this already then I suggest contacting Anton Parr support as they will know how to resolve any errors.

[@MetalGuru785]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks mate. Yep I’m an idiot. Just measured the OG, but didn’t know you had to save it as a batch to add the FG to it later. All sorted now I hope! Got to wait to the next brew to finish, before I can try again. Thanks the the help, you’re a good man and you videos are invaluable. Us amateurs should thank our lucky stars to have people like you doing what you do. Cheers 🍻

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

No problem at all. Its new 🍻🍻🍻

[@Nefariousrouge]

Does this automatically corrects to alcohol content for post fermentation readings? Unlike a regular refractometer that you need to do conversions. I would love an EasyDens, but if this is a sufficient stand alone device then it is worth it.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi, Yes it does 🍻🍻🍻

[@BruceParmele]

I have one on the way! Thanks for bringing this to our attention David. I enjoy your videos.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Cheers Bruce, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻

[@Duo_Seraphim]

I have been waiting for this. Thanks to your code, I bought one right away. Thank you for the product review!!!

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Great, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻

[@landoffireandice-08]

Hi David, do you think this will work on wine final gravity? Dry wine gravity always below zero like 0.980.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi, I havent used it with wine personally but it would not surprise me if it did. Best to check with Anton Paar.

[@landoffireandice-08]

I will do that. Thank you

[@danielkremer6494]

Those are very awesome things. But with all the fancy equipment I feel that many homebrewers focus more on "shiny" and great things without necessarily gaining benefits to their final beer. The reason I say this is became this "lower" budget device cost 299€ in Germany. Which is just wow for brewing purpose. With that being said very great video as usual David. Love all your vids.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Many thanks Daniel, I see the same things too. Its all about choices though.

[@danielkremer6494]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew totally agree. I am definitely not complaining about choices and companies offering goods. I am just a bit off the track with many fallow homebrewers who rely on expensive equipment to make great beer. It just provides an idea to potential future homebrewers that it is actually expensive to make great beer.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Absolutely , very true 🍻

[@ruwigi]

Thanks David, this has tipped me over the edge! Looked at the easydens many times but the price was too high. Smartref purchased and the 10% discount was a big help. Thanks.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Great to hear Rupert 🍻🍻🍻

[@davidroutledge6926]

How do you add the OG in the SmartRef app after fermentation has started? I just purchased my new device and am wanting to measure the SG of a fermenting beer. The instructions that come with the unit are not detailed at all and it's hard to find anything on the internet. Thanks!

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi David, looking at it myself it would seem that you need to measure it with the device from the start.

[@momoomoz]

Hi David, can you please do a short firm on using the easydens to measure the ABV and the combination of easydens+smartRef to measure ABV directly as per anton paar website stated? would love to see how, it this two duo works along :) thanks in advanced!

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi, this is already in the works 🍻🍻

[@marklpaulick]

When measuring post fermentation wort, do you have to enter the OG into the app to get an accurate FG? (To compensate for the presence of alcohol)

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

The easy way to do it is to track it from brewstage and forwards. That way the app handles everything.

[@michaelking6255]

You definitely need to use the software on the app and have an OG. You can manually enter one. The easy dens gives you immediate results. But definitely should record brew data.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, for sure

[@zzing]

I would like to see a comparison between this and the digital refract I already have.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Which do you have ?

[@zzing]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew I have the Milwaukee MA871. It is commonly manufactured I believe under different names.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

I dont have one of those but a good conparison for you to do would be to look at accuracy vs features vs price.

[@zzing]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew it looks like it is the same specs. I found this one to be rather difficult to get consistent results sometimes- more than 0.2 brix as the sample cools - even with correction built in. The unit you showed has a deeper well.

[@stevecassells5503]

G’day David, does the wort need to be a specific temperature ?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

No, the app handles this for you.

[@scottmorrison9731]

Does the app calculate SG post fermentation or are you left to do your own calculations?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hey Scott, Yes it does.

[@danhonan6718]

Another great vid as usual, I now rely entirely on you for my brew technology updates😊…thanks David

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Many thanks Dan, great to hear 🍻🍻🍻

[@stevesmith2895]

Thanks David - ordered and on the way - keep up the good work.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Cheers Steve, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻

[@jauld360]

Have you compared OG and FG values as read by both devices?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, as mentioned in the video they are very very similar in accuracy.

[@jauld360]

​@@DavidHeathHomebrew I noticed the section where you quote the manufacturers accuracy values. I am interest to compare actual measurements for both devices, with wort and finished beer. Refractive index is affected by many parameters, and the accuracy values that you list probably relate to pure sucrose solutions. A good test would compare the two devices using dark and light coloured worts, since colour affects refractive index.

[@jauld360]

P.S. I found an article (search: brulosophy refractometers-are-they-really-worth-it) where the author found very similar values between a refractometer and a hydrometer. Note that FG needs correcting for the presence of alcohol.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

They end up identical in my tests so far.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

This is a cut above a regular refractometer though.

[@bigernbladesmith]

I think I just might buy it. It's a little less expensive than the Easydens and is easy to keep clean.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Sure is. Its also very accurate of course.

[@DrunkPlanetcraftbeer]

I've just bought one and I can not wait to try it on my next bach. It is a very expensive piece of equip, specially for homebrewers. I'm very busy man and I like to get things done as simple, fast and efficient as possible. I hope it will help throughtout my brew-day and fermentation. If you order from UK, take in consideration £64 on top for duties and customs. It is a very nice piece of equip, but I don't think it worth all the £££, and Anton Paar wants to charge £21.49 for "Unlimited Batches and no Ads" 😱 (worth mentioning) I will put it to test soon and see how it behaves in comparison, cheers 🍻

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

I hope you enjoy it and are happy with your purchase.

[@poisonpotato1]

Alcohol content doesn't affect the refractometer reading?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

The app does all that work for you.

[@Ondra-u7x]

hello! why they selling SmartRef and EasyDense in set? Is there any reason to have both of them?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, check this video out:- kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXy8l2qEarhqjaMsi=EWEo6erNr7eC4m7n

[@Ondra-u7x]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thank you!

[@A2an]

Maybe something for underneath the Christmas tree 😃 Thanks David !

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Not the cheapest of gifts but an awesome one to receive for sure!

[@mrkesu]

*sigh* I guess I'll buy this gadget too then... 💸 Quick question: You say you're using distilled water to calibrate to make sure it's neutral, but would it not make more sense to calibrate against the water we are actually using to brew with (in my case, tap water)?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

No because the calbration is just to set neutral (1,000 SG)

[@marklpaulick]

I still have my doubts… can someone correct me? The issues I have with a typical hydrometer and a refractometer are: I have to cool the sample down to a proper temp. I have big problems with a hot sample evaporating on the refractometer. I have problems with indexing my refractometer to be accurate at SG over 1.080. My refractometer alcohol correction calculations are unreliable. I have problems with wort stratification, the top always seems to be less dense than the bottom. Does easy ref actually address ANY or all of these?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

It certainly will yes. I suggest a good stir from the bottom before taking you sample.

[@marklpaulick]

Thanks, I wonder how it compares to other digital refractometers like Milwaukee brand.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Compare the specs :)

[@MetalGuru785]

This device measures in SG 20/20. Does anyone, please, know what that is compared to SG, as the Easy Dens measures both of these and the Smart Ref only measures SG 20/20? Thank you.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

SG20/20 means sample density at 20 °C divided by water density at 20 °C. Comparing the results of the same sample SG20/20 and SG20/4 shows a difference because the water density is different at 4 °C and 20 °C.

[@stripeyjoe]

Would be good to see this compared to the £20 eBay refractometers and a good quality hydrometer.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

The big difference really is accuracy and that the app does all the math for you.

[@ruwigi]

Word of warning to UK buyers. Be prepared for an additional import duty bill. £64.41 in my case.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, since leaving the EU this is something to factor in. It is the same in Norway and other non EU members.

[@ruwigi]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew absolutely! I was just a bit surprised when it amounted to an extra 27% 🤦‍♂️

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, its crazy. Even more in Norway sadly.

[@Luzuuu]

Would be awesome if it had a display to be independent of the app. Because support for the app can stop, future smartphones may be incompatible, etc. But (like with the EasyDens) I guess they've left it out on purpose to be able to sell more in app purchases... With display it would've been more simple, no additional devices needed... with the option of hooking it up to the app to do calculations and stuff.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Sure but then the cost would be even more. I dont think you have much to worry about with Anton Paar. They are a hugely sucessful company for over 100 years.

[@Luzuuu]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew I have the EasyDens myself, so I do hope (because the device itself is great!). But I'd rather pay a bit more and be safe for the future than having to rely on hoping... As I see it (apart from making it a cost a little less), this decision only benefits the manufacturer, not the customer. and thats not a good thing.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Fair play 🍻🍻

[@jasonwelsh3256]

Why would you not test the sample of wort with both the devices and compare in real time?

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Its not something that I thought of in all honesty. However, based on the specification of both its very clear that it would have been equal.

[@jasonwelsh3256]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew I have mine on order, and already have the easydens so will be able to check myself in about a week :) however i do not always trust specs so would not base an opinion based on manufactures specifications alone.

[@marklpaulick]

Please update with a comparison! I’m trying to decide between the two.

[@jasonwelsh3256]

@@marklpaulick I will on the next brew day. I can tell you right off the bat I am not a huge fan of the easyden (easily broken)

[@marklpaulick]

@@jasonwelsh3256 thanks yes please do report! @davidheath you are one of the few with both devices, please do side by side testing on multiple different worts!

[@brianbarker2670]

I looked at the Canadian pricing...$348.00 (Canadian), I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, though sonething with this level of accuracy was never going to be «budget»

[@hankvos4340]

Just bought one :)

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Great, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻

[@espen000]

I purchased this one last week to get better presicion on my gravity readings. But now I am more confused than ever. Here is what i found. 1) I used distilled water as a starting point and it showed 1.000 2) tap water measures between 1.000 and 1.002 3) I tested it on my 14 days fermented beer. The Hydrometer showed the beer to be 1.012 (done) but the SmartRef showed 1.037 (!). 4) i tested the Smart ref on a commercially brewed beer that should have also had 1.012, but it showed 1.020. I am sure there is a learning curve on this tool, but I have looked through the manual a few times and i am not gettin any wizer. I am off course expecting some discrepancies between a cheap Hydrometer and an Anton Paar, but a gap of 1.012 to 1.037 only creates more uncertainty. I have done multiple seperate measurements and the values are the same. Cleaned the lens, made sure there are not "bubles" on top of the sample.. Unless i learn what i am doing wrong i am not sure this was a good investment..

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hey Espen, this has not been my experience. I think you should contact their support. There has to be a fault somewhere.

[@espen000]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks I will try that.

[@espen000]

I got a good explanation from Anton Paar. So I can't just measure a fermented wort unless I have measured and saved the OG in the app: Measure unfermented wort: If you try to measure unfermented wort you have to determine the wort correction factor (WCF) for your beer and configure it in the app. The default value of 1.03 fits most beers but can vary. (More Info) This is applied automatically to your results in Plato/SG. Measure fermented wort: Refractometers cannot measure this directly, due to the alcohol being present. But, if you know the original gravity (OG) value of your brew, the Brew Meister app can calculate the correct value. For you, this means that you have to make sure you are using the correct wort correction factor + save the OG previously in a batch. Then all readings saved afterward will be automatically wort + alcohol corrected. You can choose between two alcohol correction equations for each batch (more options -> edit wort correction) to ensure accuracy for your results.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Ok great. Yes , you must save the OG. These are great devices you just need to work with the app 🍻🍻🍻

[@quim7554]

Exactly the same. By the moment my feelings are I waste the money with the SmartRef...

[@paulrobertson9439]

Excellent video as usual thank you. In my humble opinion it's still a "professional" piece of equipment at the £300 price range but interesting cheers :)

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Thanks Paul. The professional versions actually cost a great deal more. Compared this seems very cheap in actual fact 😎

[@roryscarlett3952]

David you already convinced me to buy the EasyDens. I won't be buying this LOL

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi Rory, if you already have the EasyDens then you simply do not need this too. Im not trying to convince anyone though. Just inform of options really. 🍻🍻🍻

[@rimmersbryggeri]

Such a cool thing. A bit pricy though.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Sure is, this kind of accuracy will never be cheap.

[@danbrown586]

Looks nice, looks slick, but hard pass if you can only view the results using their app. OLED displays cost less than a dollar each in end-user quantities.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🍻🍻🍻

[@januszkszczotek8587]

In my opinion, homebrewers that are _only_ interested in Original and Final Gravity of beer are better suited with the Easy Dens. Easy Dens is a bit more expensive, but far more precise because of its method of measurement. This device here seems more comparable to other digital refractometers that cost less. Its benefit are the huge set of possible measurement types.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Yes, this is a fair point. However these are both very accurate, as you saw from the specification. I think in the end the choice between these two is based on multiple useage that fits and budget, though its not a huge difference.

[@marklpaulick]

What makes you say the easy dens is more precise? They are rated to have similar precision. But is there something inherent to the easy dens that helps with interference from evaporation? Temp correction? Alcohol correction?

[@januszkszczotek8587]

@@marklpaulick The easy dens directly measures density (instead of deriving it from another measured value) and is not prone to errors introduced non-clear wort/beer. Also there is no need to do any conversion for alcohol effects. If you ever used optical hand refractometers you probably know that you sometimes have a very unsharp division line. My fear is, that digital refractometers have the same problem. E.g. my Milwaukee digital refractometer (150$ class) often shows different readings of the exact same wort (+/- 0.5 Brix). For a user it appears precise because of its digital output - potential problems are hidden. Therefore: if you are a homebrewer and want a digital refractometer - go for it. But I doubt that the extra cost of the smart ref compared to cheaper dig. devices is worth it. If you are willing to spend the money for the smart ref, you should consider the easy dens instead.

[@marklpaulick]

@@januszkszczotek8587 hmm thanks for your thoughts, I guess that’s exactly where I find myself. I’m still drawn to the smart ref for the easier use and cleaning and am hopeful the tech is able to overcome potential pitfalls… but I agree that’s not totally clear or convincing to me.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Hi Mark, this is due to the corrections made by the app.

[@Swans_And_Ducks]

The Milwaukee is quite a bit cheaper and won’t be a door stop when the app gets pulled.

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

What makes you think the app will be pulled?

[@Swans_And_Ducks]

@@DavidHeathHomebrew they could get bored of updating it and supporting it. They may go out of business. It makes zero sense having to rely on an app when there are cheaper proven alternatives on the market. Love your channel btw

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

I find this all rather unlikely, this is a hugely successful multinational with a 100 year trading history, after all. This is literally the number 1 company in this field. 🍻🍻🍻

[@SammaxMunich]

Not having a display to read the measurements without a smartphone is a case of pure "planned obsolescence". Not one of the professional instruments from Anton Paar need a smartphone to be used for a simple measurement. Good luck finding a smartphone and app combination that works in 15 years time. Looks like a typical idea from the sales department to me. Don't fall for it!

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

You are right about Anton paars professional devices not needing a smart phone but this is a way of cutting down cost. The app compatibility for the distant future remains to be seen but this is a very long standing and serious company. I think its not something people fall for though. Plenty of things require apps these days. Its not a con as such.

[@Vykk_Draygo]

I think, rather, it's a case of allowing greater flexibility in offering one device for multiple uses. A phone app is both easier to implement and more flexible than a built in display and circuit board for the calculations (and much cheaper, since the hardware cost is much reduced). It's actually a very intelligent way to leverage the technologies, regardless of your personal opinion on the longevity of apps and Bluetooth. As far as being obsolete in 15 years time, is that really an argument? Of course a digital device will be obsolete in 15 years. That is the nature of technology. That said, as long as the Bluetooth standard is available on smartphones, then apps can still be developed to interact with devices that utilize said standard. I'm still using my first smart watch, and it's going on 6 years old at this point (though the battery is weaker). I wouldn't expect less longevity from such a device as the SmartRef or EasyDens (and the batteries are disposable, so plus points there).

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

I agree totally Vykk. Well put too 🍻

[@karlfromtas]

Too rich for my convict blood, here down under

[@DavidHeathHomebrew]

Its all about knowing the choices and making your own 🍻🍻🍻