New Study Pins Oil Free Vegan vs Olive Oil Vegan

[@MictheVegan]

Actually all of the comments so far are saying I do look really hot across Europe with my Fum so here is the link LOL: TryFum.com/MICTHEVEGAN Or scan the QR code and use code MICTHEVEGAN to get your free FÜM Topper when you order your Journey Pack today!

[@MictheVegan]

Yes, this was the first comment so...

[@fraxlgrowtopia3839]

I heard the oldest man in the world say that oil was what was killing everybody... 127 yo, I will try to take his word for it.

[@mikelautermilch8939]

The difference in outcomes could just be the result of the saturated fat in olive oil. It might not have to do with oil per se. They should run the same test but with an oil that is very low in saturated fat, like canola oil.

[@jannacoyote4246]

You’ve also seen Dr. Greger’s old video, “Olive Oil is Not a Health Food”, right? 😯❓🤷🏻‍♀️❓😯

[@VeganLinked]

@@fraxlgrowtopia3839 yet, according to an interview I did with Maad recently, centenarians in Palestine consume oil everyday.

[@logical-machine]

10:25 The chart shows that the low EVOO group ate 400 calores less than both baseline and high EVOO diets. That's insanely bad study design. This study isn't about olive oil anymore, it's about calorie restriction with 2 baseline diets.

[@JavedAlam-ce4mu]

Well it shows that a side effect of oil consumption is increased caloric intake. It comes with the oil consumption.

[@TheDaspiffy]

Forcing people to eat the same number of calories is not a good study because it is not what happens naturally. This study took the proper approach, which is to change the diet but allow people to eat as much as desired. The fact that they decide not to eat as many calories and are presumably full is a benefit of the diet.

[@Paul-yk7ds]

You have a point, but I wouldn't call it "calorie restriction" if it happened accidentally

[@EclecticianG]

@@logical-machine perhaps we should look at the study itself. Maybe Mic misspoke?

[@reactancio4126]

​@@TheDaspiffyTRUE. In real life people add oil because they believe it is good to add oil; Therefore, the study must be by adding oil. There are many vegans who are overweight and have prediabetes, because they take oil.

[@wishingb5859]

Well, I went a higher fat but no oil Whole Food Plant Based for years but never lost weight until I gave up the avocado, nuts, and things like tahini. Dr. Furhman said that it is because when you up the fats, you have to adjust the calories and Doug Lisle said that some people don't have stretch receptors that pick up on fat calories and I am one of those people. After years of not losing weight, I went low fat and lost 40 pounds and reversed Type 2 Diabetes. Just going non-processed food, no oil vegan didn't accomplish it. Honestly, it took a few months for low-fat Whole Food Plant-Based to accomplish it.

[@wouterdesmedt1736]

Interesting, I might be in the same boat. Will look up Doug Lisle and the stretch receptors thing. Thanks!

[@wishingb5859]

@@wouterdesmedt1736 Good luck! Yes, going low-fat had miraculous results for me. I had been so frustrated. I had literally replaced every single item I ate and didn’t lose anything and then I went low-fat and lost 40 pounds in less than 5 months. Crazy!

[@mattzilla331]

​@wouterdesmedt1736 he has a bunch of great lectures. The one where he talks about the stretch and nutrient receptors is in a lecture called how to lose weight without losing your mind. He also does a lot of QandAs on chef ajs youtube channel

[@LegsON]

Surplus fat calories are much quicker converted into body fat than surplus carb calories, there was some study on that.

[@mattzilla331]

@LegsON yes. There are several overfeeding studies that confirm that. Protein and carb calories don't easily turn to fat but dietary fat is effortlessly turned to bodyfat in a calorie surplus situation. McDougall goes over some of them and so does a youtuber named Miche Phd.

[@ringcache]

From the study it just seems like they added olive oil on top of the whole food diet, they didn't replace the EVOO with nuts or whole grains. The calorie intake for the low EVOO diet was 1338 and for the high EVOO diet it was 1745.

[@jamesr8584]

That is a significant difference to the point that it renders this study worthless. I wish someone would do an isocaloric study comparing olive oil to no oil.

[@sophiekarnak3936]

Another thing almost no one mentions is that the participants were obese and were already at risk for heart disease, so there's really nothing in this study that suggests small amounts of olive oil are in any way detrimental to a healthy person who has healthy biomarkers and does not need to lose weight. And HDL dropped much MUCH more in the no oil group than it did in the EVOO group, in fact much more than the LDL did, and I'm not sure that's such a great thing.

[@Guishan_Lingyou]

Of course it is important to note that the the caloric intake was not the same across groups, but I don't think that invalidates the results. In real life, adding olive oil to your diet is very likely to add calories, so measuring the result of that condition seems like relevant information.

[@christianz8020]

Yes, whole food plant based fats are gold... As long as it's still high carb

[@m_m991]

​@@jamesr8584 that has been done the predimed study compared olive oil vs walnuts vs low fat

[@MictheVegan]

I am seeing a lot of calorie difference comments that didn't seem to watch to the point where I addressed this topic. If oil is increasing calorie consumption and calorie consumption is creating a difference, then oil is creating a difference.

[@Oogahboogah1497]

this is why nutrition science so often fails. This conclusion is meaningless for those (like myself) who would like to use scientific data to determine whether or not to include olive oil with a fixed caloric intake.

[@goldenjordan]

You said yourself in the video at 9.45 because the calories were lower in the no oil group we don't know if the benefits were from less oil or fewer calories. If calories were kept the same we'd know definitively. You need to isolate the oil difference with no other differences in the study. From what I see most people are overweight, so would benefit from reducing calories by cutting out oil, but what about those not overweight? I eat plenty including oil, but I'm only 8 st/50 kg, so I don't consume too many calories. If I quit oil, as I don't want to lose weight I'd replace it with calories from food. After this flawed study I still don't know if it's healthier for me to omit oil.

[@goldenjordan]

@@Oogahboogah1497 It was the same with the study that showed vegans were biologically younger. They ate fewer calories in the study, so lost weight and most people are overweight. This is junk science. They should get people who are a healthy weight to maintain their weight and see what difference different diets make. I think it's easier to conduct studies on ourselves than wait for it to be done properly.

[@Oogahboogah1497]

@ I completely agree

[@simont6439]

23% calorie restriction in that Low EVOO group, that basically nullifies the ability to make any conclusion. 1350 kcal, that is a serious weight loss diet.

[@reason3581]

Exactly.

[@wtsuser]

Starvation

[@VeganLinked]

Plus I think these people had like an average BMI of like 30 and some degree of heart disease. I don't want to know what happens to sick people when they eat too much olive oil I want to know what a saying amount of oil does to somebody who is healthy in the long run.

[@pattheplanter]

The true effects of that are not going to show up in four weeks.

[@wtsuser]

@@VeganLinked somebody with a low bmi generally burns less calories. So they have less calories to waste on food that doesnt supply essential micronutrients. Especially on a vegan diet where its hard to get b vitamins and protein. In general, why would you eat olive oil when you could instead add more calories from micronutrient rich, healthy food like fish, eggs, legumes, vegetabels...?

[@plantbasedethos5726]

Just sharing my personal experience regarding olive oil, being in Spain in the mediterranian is quite hard to avoid olive oil because it's part of our food traditions. When using olive oil about 2tbps per day, I notice improve memory and cognitive function as the most relevant benefits. When I remove olive oil completely after a few weeks I notice improvements in cardio and exercise output. I guess not every thing can be black and white and people may react differently to different foods. At least olive oil is vegan and if it helps people to consume more plant based meals that's great. For someone with chronic disease it's not that easy and probably better to avoid all oils at least for a certain period of time!

[@JakeRichardsong]

Yes, avoid all oils. They contribute to heart disease.

[@Philbertsroom]

Not sure FUM is a great sponsor if you care about population health... I can see people trying FUM and then wanting to try vaping because of it (omg slippery slope) but seriously why push people into being addicted to inhaling through something

[@LinkEX]

Seconded, that sponsor seems even worse than one of those energy drinks and/or junk food sponsors.

[@strife57x]

also they're made with essential oils, so the message seems to be avoid eating oils, inhale them instead.

[@byamboy]

If anything Gen Z vapes their brain out. This product seems legit less problematic. Remember that clean air also has some oils in it as well. I would give this a try but this is probably not going to take off, since there is not smoke to it. And smoke is cool.

[@oldspiced]

He needs to get money from sponsors. This was probably the lesser evil of whatever other options he got.... but for people who are trying to quit vaping this seems like a legit helpful product. idk why yall hating.... its annoying I had to even say something and he cannot defend himself because hes the one on contract / has better things to do.

[@Meccarox]

It's supposed to help people who already vape or smoke to quit.

[@lexishannon3952]

thanks, I am soooo tired of breathing unflavored air!

[@VeganChiefWarrior]

Only mic the vegan can sell flavoured air while talking about health studies

[@lacha608]

Wth is he thinking. Is he trying to destroy his credibility?

[@newlifecalling2233]

@@lacha608 I have never seen Mic the Vegan before today. His choice of FUM - wow - I'm out now, like this minute.

[@goldenjordan]

@@lacha608 Isn't it a good thing if it helps people stop smoking or vaping?

[@aeh323]

Olive oil varies so much in quality too - ideally you eat extra virgin which is no more than a few months old from an organic, small farm. It’s so expensive you’re not going to be using that much anyway!

[@Babesinthewood97]

I use it on my skin too.

[@anntecz]

If you need something to be THAT specific, it isnt good, point blank period.

[@judylloyd7901]

​​​​@@anntecz It needs to be specified because of the many olive oils on the market which are heated or chemically extracted, and trees may be sprayed with pesticides and herbicides, etc., making the oil less than ideal. Being heat or chemically treated means they may last longer, but such oils are detrimental to your health. So, it's better to seek out organically grown, cold pressed, extra virgin olive oil. 😊😊😊

[@plantsoverbrands]

If you're a healthy individual with no heart issues you can be healthy and lean without cutting all the fat from your diet. I was shocked to find out 40 minutes of exercise per day is the absolute minimum for a healthy lifestyle. Since I'm more active and have gained some muscle I lost weight without any changes to my wfpb diet, and I even started using minimal amounts of oil when I feel like it. Before I was stuck thinking I had to cut out all the fat but the reality was I was a healthy no-oil couch potato. 🥔

[@elephantintheroom5678]

Interesting. Neal Barnard has a study showing how mitochondria in muscles increase when you go off oil and added fats. That could be one reason the low oil group felt more like exercising.

[@jakubchrobry3701]

Neal Barnard has not done this study. He does hypothesis this and cites other studies like Sparks (2005). There's nothing in pubmed or google scholar. Next time cite the study. I will not give anything more on Sparks, so others will have to waste time to hunt for it themselves. This then simply becomes useless info.

[@plantbasedethos5726]

Yeah it makes sense. I tried this for myself and my exercise and cardio capacity always improves after removing olive oil

[@sirjohnahayfalcon]

@@plantbasedethos5726 you need fat

[@dj-fe4ck]

​@@sirjohnahayfalconit's impossible to eat zero fat, even without oils, nuts, olives, or avocados.

[@marybyrd4196]

Mamavation just tested a bunch of olive oils - they all have measurable phthalates in them, some of them quite a lot.

[@MagdalenaShakti]

I can reduce the oil...but never will I stop eating and creating raw Cacao pudding with avocados!!!! I adore them❤

[@jmax9782]

I burned 2500 calories by 11 AM today. I'm a very skinny vegan runner/cyclist who's needs all the calories I can stuff into myself. Salads and beans alone just won't do it.

[@JavedAlam-ce4mu]

I can understand needing oil, but it's dishonest to refer to a low-oil vegan diet as "salads and beans"

[@vfran838]

A vegan diet is not salad and beans. Its grains, potatoes, nuts, seeds, vegetables, legumes and fruit. My son was a marathon runner and followed a healthy vegan diet. He calculated his calories to make sure he got enough nourishment for the runs.

[@MtnGirll]

Same. I clean houses 10+ hours a day and I struggle massively to get in enough calories.

[@Ron-kn6ur]

I go on 5 to 7 hour day hikes twice a week. I have a fast metabolism and on the underweight side. I am a 70 years old vegan and I have oils (flax seed, sesame seed oil, butter, nuts, seeds) and high carb diet to replace muscle glycogen after exercise.

[@sustainablelivingwannabe1756]

@@Ron-kn6urA vegan who eats butter?

[@tely5]

It's hard to imagine havine 15% or less of calories from fat. My diet is WFPB, oil free. I track everything with cronometer, so I know how much fat I'm getting. On my very best days, all it takes is a handful of walnuts, a tablespoon of flax seed, half an avocado, and cup of soy milk to get 37 grams of fat. If the rest of my food for the entire day was super low fat (e.g. fruit, backed potato, etc.), that still is about 20% of my calories. Throw in a tablespoon of nut butter, and forget it. WFPB, no-oil, I am lucky to get

[@__NikolaTesla__]

IMO A very low fat diet is only meant for weight loss. In a video from Siim Land (was/is ranked #1 in longevity leader board), he showed data where 25%-35% fat was correlated with the lowest mortality risk. In the end YOUR biomarkers matter, not some arbitrary number.

[@CharlieFader]

They usually exclude nuts and avocados as well.

[@Kristers_K]

Unless you are fairly genetically predisposed to weight gain or perhaps you have personal reasons, there is no need to manage your fat intake, i never did, i always eat as much as i desire without issues, without tracking anything in fact. But your comment gives the impression weight gain is an issue for you, so that does complicate things indeed.

[@o0xXirisXx0o]

I once participated in a microbiome study where I could choose a diet and got myself on a

[@rabeascholz1390]

You may want to look up Dr. McDougall’s videos on KZbin. He recommends a high starch diet and following that, I easily end up with around 10 % calories from fat. It’s not hard when you eat plenty of potatoes, rice, pasta or grains. :)

[@hollypatrick1050]

i bought an olive oil with a drizzle pop up pourer which really helps me control oil to a small amount to spread on a pan, its non-gmo but doesnt come in organic

[@VeganLinked]

I looked at this study a few weeks ago when pcrm posted about it. Didn't these people have like an average BMI of like 30? And they also had heart disease at least moderate, right? And while it may be easy to get 4 tbsp of olive oil that's a ridiculous amount of olive oil. And we don't really know what they were eating do we? The kind of study you started off saying you would like to see, this doesn't seem like that steady at all. Wouldn't this study have been better if it was using vegans with a healthy BMI who have been vegan for a long time and on a well-planned whole Food vegan diet? And hasn't there been evidence that fmd improves with long-term olive oil consumption? It seems like nutrition made simple mentioned that recently. I'm super surprised you didn't talk about their diet more in this study and their BMI and how they had at least moderate heart disease. At least that was my interpretation but I just skimmed it... And this is kind of out of my Lane...

[@mark2073]

So, are you saying that previous to the trial, they were eating overall bad diets? Based on that, it's hard to see any specific benefits between different oil regimens and meat, when their improvements may simply come from eliminating processed foods.

[@VeganLinked]

@@mark2073 yes, Mic said they were eat a meat diet before the study. And this seems to contradict his comment “recently I was saying wouldn't it be so interesting if we just had a study comparing people on a whole food vegan diet with oil verses without oil and really see what the difference is and then a few hours later I hopped on Pub Med and found this very recent study from the Journal of the American Heart Association doing just that in particular with extra virgin all oil”.

[@adamd9418]

I initially had some hesitation about this study, and while I could be picky, I am happy that there are at least some studies happening in this direction.

[@VeganLinked]

@@adamd9418 yes, totally, ideally though it would be framed properly when talked about. Mike does an excellent job usually. I think he "maybe" could have done a better job on this one though.

[@Shiyoken]

I probably get away from FUM sponsor. From every angle it isnt good. Just keeps people at the cusp of smoking, vaping, hand gestures and inhalation habits and more. Doesn't solve anything. Also, Bryan Johnson with his olive oil consumption? They should do an experiment with his version lol.

[@oldspiced]

That's like saying nicotine patches are bad because they are still using nicotine.... i do see your point that its still promoting something that looks like vaping but for those who are trying to quit, this seems good.

[@InnerRevolutionProject]

a low fat vegan diet was the only thing that cured my chronic acne I had for decades as a grown up. I got this inspiration from Nina & Randy, both lifetime vegans who cured their acne completely with a low fat diet, means no oil and no nuts, seeds, avocados and so on. Since my acne is completely cured, I can eat some healthy fats (mainly walnuts and olives) in moderation without breaking out again, but when I indulge to much of it (or when I use flaxseeds, tahini or any type of oil) I immediately get new pimples the next day. So a Low Fat Vegan Diet without added fats might not only be a solution for people with heart problems or wanting to loose weight, but also for curing acne.

[@Oogahboogah1497]

that's great to hear. Do/did you struggle with vision issues at all (my current struggle)? Do/did you supplement Omegas?

[@emilyking9558]

I like foods that have fat like avocado and nuts. I try to minimize added oils, but I do not demonize them

[@C.R.MacDonald]

The problem with oil: • Oil is 100% fat calories. It is ~120 calories per tablespoon, making it the highest on the calorie density scale and the most calorie-dense product in existence. It is literally less calories to eat the same amount of *anything else* (pure sugar, ice cream, etc.). Fat: 9 calories per gram. Carbohydrates: 4 calories per gram. • Oil is heavily processed. It requires the fat of ~30 olives to make a single tablespoon of olive oil (depending on size). • During processing, all of the water and nutrients (such as fiber, vitamins, and minerals) are stripped away. Only very trace amounts are left behind. For example: you would need to consume 10 tablespoons of olive oil to meet your daily requirement of vitamin E and K, and you would need to consume half a pound of olive oil-about 2,000 calories worth-in order to reach your daily recommended intake of omega-3 fatty acids. • Oil raises LDL cholesterol due to its saturated fat content. • Oil is completely unnecessary in the human diet. There are plenty of fats in whole plant foods, so pouring globs of extra, highly-refined liquid fat onto your food is nonessential. Simply put: There is no need to grease your food. Just eat the actual olive. *To note: Regardless of what people eat, I'm personally happy as long as they are vegan. Animal rights/ ethics is what's ultimately important to me. Individual health is up to the person.

[@tofudoesntscream]

Thank you for this great breakdown! I agree with you - as long as someone isn’t harming animals in their diet, I don’t care what they eat.

[@kh485]

But in a way, a nation that is fat, sick and nearly dead affects all of us.

[@hardcoreherbivore4730]

If a dish absolutely needs to have oil, I prefer olive oil. It’s not chemically extracted, and loaded in polyphenols. Still, it appears as though my intake is at most on par with the low group.

[@thommilner]

I agree, but would add, i want/encourage vegans to be as healthy as possible because well, they are awesome people but also, if we have junk food vegans getting ill, people will blame veganism, not their unhealthy vegan food choices.

[@CassyExploring]

Sorry, it’s all wrong. Olive oil ils just a juice of an olive. You pick un olive from a tree, you squish it and you get oil. That’s it. It’s not « stripped of vitamins ». It’s pure goodness. It moisturizes your skin from inside. And you need calories to live. It’s not empty calories like white sugar.

[@AlfredoShrimp-e4h]

Ill just use a teaspoon here and a teaspoon there and not worry about it. Gotta have some type of fun in life.

[@roccodiconza7367]

4 years on a low-fat diet, no nuts, no seeds, no oil only wfpb i was hungry all the time i eat many carbs mad heart disease worse i did a nutritional test i was low zinc low iron and depleted on vitamins e and fatty liver. The liver needs good fats to work properly, no more low fats

[@heatherpederson4110]

I always feel hungry and crave fat, unless i indulge in nuts or seeds, a ton of fiber, a nice amount of saltiness lol and some carbs 😅 cant figure out why lol

[@AlfredoShrimp-e4h]

Did you have a source of fat at all?

[@ModulerDrone]

Anything breathable that isn’t air should not be promoted on a “health” channel….. guess having no FCC for the internet combined with the severe lack of critical skills does wonders for our collective wellbeing

[@BJ-ui2rc]

It’ll come out in another few years that those “flavored air” pens have carcinogens or other lung damaging chemicals. It looks like they use little wicks for the flavoring. I can’t even begin to imagine what kind of chemicals those are made of that are getting inhaled directly into the lungs.

[@raerazel7853]

Thanks for covering this again- I feel like people are going to do what they’re gonna do regardless of what you say, but I believe you the first time

[@KYLE-zo4bm]

i just avoid oil when i cook myself unless its some a quick prepackaged thing that has some oil in it or in restaurants i guess you can't avoid it

[@sarahdee374]

I agree. I don't use oil at home, to saute, or dressings etc. But when I'm out eating at a friends or restaurant I relax that a bit. TBH I detest being "that vegan" who microscopically explores everything on a menu. I eat it with love and pleasure.

[@paulmaxwell8851]

I can't eat restaurant food any more. The high oil and salt content makes me feel ill, and I just can't enjoy the meal. Not a vegan, just a 'meat on rare occasions' guy.

[@JakeRichardsong]

You can def. avoid. Don't buy the prepackaged foods then.Don't order food items with oil.

[@RogerHyam]

Turns out there is a dose response to almost anything.

[@AmarAsrrak]

I will test this out, Ill post what happen after 4 weeks!

[@jonbarlow3542]

I have teetered over the years as the info has swayed, for and against, olive oil, I have now, again, decided to go oil-free, and I'll get the good fats in, via avocado, seeds & predominately walnuts! As you say, & I too believe, context is everything! That said the pinnacle of health is achieved via an oil-free diet and the science backs this! Thanks Mic, love your work.

[@MichaelToub]

Not a fan of normalizing and glamorizing vaping

[@visaholopainen6434]

Maybe a large amount of olive oil causes the share of calories from saturated fat to go closer to 10%, which starts to become a problem. Would be interesting to see a study with canola oil, some of which contain only 4% saturated fat.

[@jcleaverchamberlinjr]

Like fruits vs fruit juices. Would it be better to eat the olives instead of pressing them for the oil?

[@wonderwonder-xr2xq]

Yes! I try my best to avoid adding oil & fat - but I eat foods that have fat naturally in them eg nuts & seeds, advocados and OLIVES! Dr Greger says "if you want olive oil, eat olives"! So I add 10 green olives to my sandwich box every day - yum! And once I'd lost 40 lbs over 18 months, by following a WFPB diet w/o oil, my BMI has stayed at about 22, effortlessly.

[@dj-fe4ck]

There is nothing wrong with juice. Especially if it's fresh or cold pressed. Even pasteurized juice without any bad ingredients added is ok.

[@sophiekarnak3936]

Olives are more processed than the oil. You can't eat olives straight from the tree, they are processed with lye or with tons of salt to remove the bitter oleuropein. Good quality EVOO is made just by crushing and pressing the olives, then separating the oil and water by centrifuge - no added salt or lye.

[@jcleaverchamberlinjr]

@@dj-fe4ck yeah, I’m just going in better to eat the fruit rather than the fruit juice because it’s got more fibre. That’s my reasoning behind that

[@Integroabysal]

not really , oils and fats in general are highly oxidative in any form , does not matter its a nut that has been sitting on a shelf for half a year or a cold pressed olive oil that has sitting on the shelf for the same time , both of them are succumbed to oxidation at the different rates but still.

[@JohnnyOSullivan]

Quality content Mic. That graph around 8 minutes showing their LDL rising during washout was worth the watch alone.

[@lindarkruse9301]

Enjoying the content but also surprised about the Fum product. Probably because Im a former smoker (quit 13 yrs ago) but this just doesnt sit right. Why promote something so useless… and is there even long term studies that shows this is harmless? There are plenty of fidget products out there so I really don’t know why you would have to breath in flavoured air as well. I mean - it really is cementing a habit that we shouldnt have. Re-think this.

[@mjs28s]

@8:56 Um....they are eating terrible "vegan" diets to only be getting, on average, 28 grams of fiber per day! What are they eating? Tons of white bread, white rice, vegan products rather than just mostly plants? My morning smoothie is 35 grams of fiber and that is one meal! I would like to see the same study done again but people eating a healthy vegan diet that is mostly whole plant foods and clearly not the still poor diets that they were obviously eating. I wouldn't consider someone's diet being healthy less they are getting in at least (bare minimum) 20 grams fiber per 1,000 calories with 25 grams per 1,000 calories being a much better start.

[@paulmaxwell8851]

I have a friend who gulps a couple of tablespoons of extra-virgin olive oil every morning 'for her heart health'. It sounded like a wacky idea to me, and I now know it is. Thanks, Mic, for confirming my dubiousness.

[@LinkEX]

There was an episode on Olive Oil just recently on the ZOE Science and Nutrition podcast which came to the opposite conclusion as this video. While not promoting to gulp tablespoons of EVOO in isolation, there were two groups eating a mediterranean-based diet, one with and another without ample olive oil. The one with oil did considerably better and had better heart health, lower blood pressure and improved arterial vascular health. The oleic acid as well as the polyphenols in EVOO are major protective factors it seems.

[@Integroabysal]

@@LinkEX I mean :D the study is done on 40 obese ppl , no shit they will have significant differences while being on high or low oil intake , one thing i don't like about vegan trials and studies is that they are highly rigged to maximize the results of a vegan side , its like every second trial on LDL that is done to promote a vegan lifestyle have ppl that are eating beans and salads on the vegan side and ppl that are eating chicken nuggets on the omnivore side , i mean its like all the omnivores are eating junkfood lol no shit that guy had like 30% higher LDL than the vegan and even so the results are not that great , most of the neutral studies shows a benefit of a vegan lifestyle but not by that high margin like the rigged one , a wholefood omnivore diet is on par with a wholefood vegan diet when compared to diseases and stuff , we might really start to see a difference and actually achieve something if we stop rigging trials just to paint one side way better than it is.

[@JakeRichardsong]

Yep, it's really dumb, oil contributes to heart disease.

[@JakeRichardsong]

@@LinkEX Nope, all food oils contribute to heart disease.

[@byamboy]

The thing is, you can be healthy eating tons of oil. Italians live long ingesting lots of olive oils, for example. Nutrution is just one factor. But I prefere my body when I'm low fat, it can't be too low though. But if you have a healthy familial situation, good friends and little to none processed foods, your body will deal with a lot of things you throw at it. But EVOO is no remedy for anything. That is correct.

[@taylorward2920]

You pointed out that those 4 tbsp of oil, which many thoughtlessly add via cooking or salad dressings likely represent around 25% of a persons daily calories. I cut out oil 3 to 4 months ago and my weight went from 132 to under 120. Oil grosses me out now and ive learned how to make tasty oil free sauces.

[@hanspoell]

Great that you mention walnuts and other sources of whole plant foods that also increase FMD. I'd add to this that even if they didn't from what I've seen in the research, they clearly seem to be beneficial to cardio-vascular and other health related outcomes. More studies comparing (olive versus more whole foods based plant based diet patterns) this is definitely interesting to look at.

[@mkmstillstackin]

Extremely interesting study results! Thanks for this overview, Mic. I appreciate all that you do!

[@Lulu-kt6gr]

4 tablespoons is a lot. I only put a tablespoon on a large salad for 2 people. I also only use it below the smoking point: this is very important because the polyphenols are ruined if the oil is heated at high temperatures. You can avoid this by adding water when sautéing. Flax oil is also very healthy, when used cold and high quality. Fats noticeably improve skin and joints, neurotransmitter communication and protection of the myelin sheath of the nerves.

[@CalebBradshaw-x2c]

I would be interested to see your opinion on Bryan Johnson's reasoning for using his olive oil. He says there is compelling evidence that oil helps 'reduce the damage that eating does to your body' whatever that means. He does use a very specific type, however I'd still love to see you weigh in on the topic!

[@JavedAlam-ce4mu]

Hey Mic, what you said at 8:34 doesn't completely make sense (that the reason the second group didn't lower their LDL as much was because of the decreased baseline) because if you see on the graph where their LDL is after the four weeks, it is actually higher than their LDL was when they were using olive oil. So it actually is possible that the group that went on the low olive oil diet second had genetics that predisposed them to higher LDL in general, otherwise they should have had a lower LDL on an olive oil free diet than they did while eating olive oil. So I can't agree with the conclusion. The whole point of having the two groups cross-over is to check whether the effect is due to the population of the group, and if the second group's LDL was higher when not eating olive oil than when eating olive oil, the conclusions drawn really don't hold merit.

[@sciencelabvideosl7558]

Baxter Montgomery MD also tells his patients no oil in the beginning of a cardio therapy. He tells them to add it as the patients’ numbers get better.

[@Av4427G]

Thanks for the info Mic!

[@JakeRichardsong]

If a person consumed NO dietary fat, would there be nutritional defiencies because the fat soluble vitamins would not be well digested and not well aborbed.

[@nomad1517]

From what i understand, arterial plaque takes a long time to leave the arteries. Because food that is processed can contain oils and most olive oil isnt 100 percent olive oil, that can play a possible risk. Plus, salt, oil, and sugar can be addictive and a lot of people have a hard time staying away from those things. Which can be a problem.

[@JivecattheMagnificent]

Awesome video bro, and great meeting you at Vegan Campout. (I am the guy that asked about seamoss.) 😎 The Fum thing with the chewy top kind of makes me think it's like an adult pacifier. 😅

[@MictheVegan]

Nice meeting you too! Some adults definitely could benefit from a pacifier. Right now their pacifiers cause lung cancer.

[@musuyanguba4226]

Which olive oil did the people eat? Was it tested to make sure it was real olive oil and was just olive oil?

[@ChessMasterNate]

I think Advanced Glycation End-products should be part of the story. These AGEs are much more common in fats. And olive oil, extra virgin or not, is high in AGEs. AGEs are associated with virtually every disease of aging. Some oils that are likely lower in AGEs are avocado, pistachio, corn (yep, that is what the numbers say), safflower and sunflower. And even though butter is sky-high, cream is quite low. Of course, the saturated fat may be sufficient to make that a bad choice. Nuts, seeds, nut and seed butters and oils should be raw...no heating. Forget stir-fry. And any other frying. What are blasted AGEs? They are carbs bonded to proteins or fats creating Frankenstein molecules, some of which are hard for the body to eliminate, and one that is impossible to eliminate. These wedge themselves in the spaces between your cells, making your tissues stiff. They are made when heating especially at higher temperatures carbs with proteins or fats, blending these at high speeds in machines, or by long or thorough fermentation. But they can also be present naturally. The worst offender there is pine nuts, but cashews can be high too. And, yes, when raw.

[@TangoMasterclassCom]

Great video! Yes, I found you via that 'oil' video, and since that moment I learnt a lot about whole food plant based eating, I am super grateful I found your channel. Apparently there are new results of the Adventist Health Study about all cause mortality, would love to hear your take on the research findings!

[@EclecticianG]

I deleted my previous comment about the Fum because, although I still have some minor concerns about what's being delivered to the lungs, I think this is much safer than vaping. I didn't know it was to get people off vaping. I generally do not watch ads, but after someone else thankfully commented and gave me some hints about the product, I went to the Fum website and found enough info to relax.

[@Arguments_only]

I wouldnt make any conclusive inferences from this in terms of EVOO healthiness... Were the calories same in bot diets high EVOO and low EVOO? There is much better studies with massively larger samples that show EVOO being beneficial to people in terms of heart diseases, inflammation reduction, gut health, brain health and appetite regulation. The evidence in terms of hearth health is solid. Merely taking one table spoon of EVOO lovered heart disease risk by 12% in one population study if memory serves correct. THeoretical Linear relationship with dosage was observed those that had 2 tablespoons had even lower risk.

[@gregorycickavage8503]

I use 2 teaspoons of flax oil on my 4oz of greens daily. I sometimes cook with macadamia nut oil.

[@user-no2mz9hl4f]

I really appreciate your balanced perspective on this topic.

[@apricotsandwich]

No pls don’t come for olive oil 😭 not that I can afford that in 2024

[@jakubchrobry3701]

Olive oil is dirt cheap per calorie. Like Mike said, four tablespoons is close to 500 calories. Do the math. The Costco EVOO will cost you 15 cents per 100 calories. A more expensive brand might be 25 cents. 100 calories of an inexpensive vegetable like broccoli will cost you about $2. In college I used olive oil to reduce my food expenses because I understood this.

[@VeganLinked]

These people aren't long-time vegans, they weren't even vegan at all. We don't even really know what they were eating as far as I understand. They had and they seem to have had an unhealthy BMI and already some degree of heart disease. So if you're healthy it seems like certain oils could be advantageous.

[@jakubchrobry3701]

​@@VeganLinked I've been vegan for over 20 years eating only healthy whole foods. My body fat is under 12% and I can deadlift twice my bodyweight at age 60. And no meds. I've never been overweight or unhealthy in my life, even when eating dead animals. Several times I've added one or two tablespoons per day of olive oil to meet increased energy demands due to increased exercise. Each time it increase my LDL by 30% (from 90 to almost 120 mg/dL). It's typical for LDL to increase as we age. Dr. Esselstyn's targeted audience is older people trying to lower their LDL; and they are likely more sensitive to sat fat than younger people. I'm not sure what the advantages are, especially for older people. Are the polyphenols from specifically olives all that special? I'll stick with my nuts, seeds, grains, and tofu for my fatty acids; and a supplement for DHA and EPA.

[@kaleyeahitsaustin6026]

Vote Trump 2024! Make olive oil cheap again!

[@VeganLinked]

@@kaleyeahitsaustin6026 HELL YEAH YA'LL

[@joshleedy6127]

I’m pretty sure there was already a study of iso caloric Mediterranean diet + nuts vs Mediterranean + olive oil showing no difference. Meanwhile we have plenty of data of calorie restricted diets of any kind resulting in positive changes in health markers. One can’t make a conclusion on olive oil from this study due to major differences in calories.

[@v-sig2389]

It's quite surprising that you would advertise anything close to smoking ... Slipery slope here ... At least, seed is a great product, but that ..

[@julielparks1304]

I was diagnosed with coronary artery disease after a calcium score test, but I’m still in primary prevention mode (no events) and want to do all I can to keep it that way! While it seems that the divisiveness and pearl-clutching between the oil/no oil camps seems overblown, as we know both are heads above the animal fats group, I for one look forward to those studies that compare levels of whole plant fats on endothelial function as well as longevity and health span. In the meantime, I don’t cook with oils, and keep the plant fats pretty low. We’re all figuring it out as best we can. Again, I count on your channel as well as Plant Chompers as my go-to sources. Thank you!

[@enzocalzone5298]

Good luck, I hope you can prevent any event

[@Fearzero]

CAC scores are not all that. 'About one-fourth to one-third of the total incident cardiovascular disease events occur in those with a CAC of zero...' AHA.

[@darrylparsons4539]

Please do not rely on this channel as a go to. He doesn't understand a poor study when he sees one. Try Dr. Gil Carvalho. He has a KZbin channel, eats a low oil plant based diet, but is honest about study results, and actually understands them. He recently confronted Esselston about his no oil stance and will tell you about all the positive benefits and studies re olive oil, and other things he himself doesn't eat. He is not dogmatic and just follows the science. Good luck on your journey my friend.

[@julielparks1304]

@@darrylparsons4539 Thank you. I don’t find Mic at all dogmatic, and always appreciate his videos. I can’t count the number of times I’ve questioned something and thought, “I wish someone would dig into that”, and he’s been the one who dug into it. But, yes, I have been following Carvalho’s channel for a little while now and appreciate his quality content. I’ve been meaning to watch his interview with Esselstyn, so thanks for this reminder.

[@shermangholdingsllc2182]

Thank you for speaking so clearly. Can understand you perfectly with speed setting at 2X. Really interesting study.

[@johnely5050]

I have 2 tablespoons of Extra Virgin Olive Oil every day and have done for the last 10 years. My LDL is excellent according to my Dr. I am 65 years age and doing well. I read about people on the Mediterranean diet and who are included in the Blue Zones and the health benefits of Olive Oil.

[@gregorycary9982]

Is all saturated fat the same ? Is saturated fat from nuts going to clog my arteries ?????

[@giselafiege7169]

Well I’ve been working with a plumber the last 4 years. Seeing grease traps in restaurants and house pipes that use a lot of oil. What it does to house pipes is it cloggs them up, so that is my confirmation that this is also what it does in the body. Not to mention the smell of the old oil in the pipes is vile! So to me it also makes sense that the body odor is related to what we consume including oil! This is all I need to make the choice of not cooking with oil. Takes a bit of practice but it’s possible and food taste just as good. I’m not completely oil free but only eat as nature made it as in nuts seeds avocados and coconut in its pure unadulterated form.

[@Grero]

Pipes are not biological and don't digest oil or anything else. Bad analogy.

[@giselafiege7169]

@@Grero your right they are not biological, however the function is the same regardless. Oil makes it harder for the body to do it’s functions.

[@Babesinthewood97]

It’s not extra virgin, and besides they’re not comparable.

[@judylloyd7901]

​​@@giselafiege7169 That's a crazy analogy 😳 🤣 Because waste pipes are *not organs,* their function is *nothing like* what goes on in the body!!! No comparison! Btw, it's "you're right" 😊😊

[@giselafiege7169]

@@judylloyd7901 then you’ve the term of our Lymphatic system being our sewer system and when it is clogged the body is in disease. So you may not like my analogy and that’s fine yet it is not apples and oranges. Wether you re aware or not all things have some connections. Not looking to convince you just help you open your narrow thought process. Much Aloha

[@a3dr2]

What about dark chocolate? With the saturated fat it should be avoided right? Even with healthy people?

[@xperience-evolution]

Oil is just the so calorie dense and all the good parts of the food are gone. I prefer eating 200 calories of berries, fruits, nuts/seeds, veggies instead of two tablespoon of oil. Just eat the whole olive or the leaves of the tree.

[@cgottschify]

A lot of people will say food doesnt taste right if theres no oil added which sounds less like a taste thing than an addiction. But it is nice for diets that actually require more calories. I can only eat so much starch and avocados before getting full and i dont like eating six times a day, and sugared bevs rot my teeth

[@bboywolf]

Yeah but eating a lot low calorie foods is also not good. You need a balance. This doesnt mean oil per se but in general. Avocados and nuts for example

[@cgottschify]

@@bboywolfThats what hes saying, that hed rather eat the whole fat, like in nuts and avocados.

[@dj-fe4ck]

I'd rather eat 1000 calories of maple syrup or cane sugar instead of 1000 calories of whole nuts and avocados. The less fat I eat the better I feel.

[@dj-fe4ck]

5 grams of fat from olive oil is also better than 100 grams of fat from whole nuts or olives

[@Tivvv3]

Not sure we should care about reducing LDL, from what I heard it's good to try to reduce (mildly) oxidized LDL by looking at root causes while reducing LDL in general can cause more mortality as that 1960s (I think) study showed that the author sat on for years unreleased.

[@Tivvv3]

That said there may be a problematic increase in mildly oxidized LDL here if the increased energy intake had a bad effect in some way but I'm not sure the study is designed to test for that.

[@maivaka3863]

That's funny. I thought I was doing vegan keto since 4 months ago. (And keto sticks said so, too!) But I'm eating only about one tablespoon of olive oil a day. That's "as much oil as I want"! 😂 But I also eat nuts. Lost 18 kilogrammes by now. My obesity came from eating a lot of bread. Now, I eat protein bread *some days*, but most of the days I mainly eat veggies and tofu, and soy yoghurt and berries with protein powder and pumpkin seeds.

[@Fallenangel_85]

I still don't know why Olive oil is so popular in the first place, except for it being expensive and thus good to sell. Flax seed oil seems vastly superior and cheaper. Is there a study that compares it to olive oil? And just once I want to see a study on people that are not obese...

[@mark2073]

It seems the whole premise of this video is that high LDL is bad. Is that true?

[@abstuli]

A big reason why many people get so fat is all the vegetable oil they consume in the food they eat. The average American consumes 38 pounds of soybean oil a year, according to the Environmental Working Group (EWG). It contains 120 calories per tablespoon. If we add all the other vegetable oil we consume over the course of a year, it adds up to an awful lot of calories. Vegetable oils are very cheap and you will find lots of them in super-processed food because they make the food cheaper to produce. Over the past 30 years, the average price of soybean oil has been between 20 and 30 cents per pound.

[@CassyExploring]

I think that all this oil fuss is because in states you eat soy oil. In Europe you can’t even buy it in supermarkets. We have only virgin olive oil, grape seeds oil, walnuts oils etc. And nobody here is concerned about consuming oil. It simply doesn’t create any problem.

[@andreasrydstrom9112]

Great vid and fascinating study! Will read it in full when I get the time for it, but until then: Do you know if they gave the participants the oil or did they just give the participants instructions on what to buy? With the latter one could argue that they could have ended up with low quality (for example old) EVOO, which would have less antioxidants than normal (by many thought to be the healthiest part of the oil). And if they gave the participants the oil, did they check it's antioxidant content during the time of the study?? Otherwise the same argument could be made and some could even argue that the ones running the study could have chosen an EVOO that they expected to perform bad because of the low quality, since they of course are completely crazy vegans.

[@eng.miroslavmanahilov1944]

Where are the Randomized double blind placebo controlled trials for the FUM?

[@fairykun]

interesting study and great video as always !! but I wonder about the sponsored product, I've heard that inhalable essential oil devices like this could be hazardous especially since they aren't regulated by the FDA )):

[@pedrovazquez6940]

Can I still eat whole olives?

[@wonderwonder-xr2xq]

Yes of course!

[@plantbasedethos5726]

Yes absolutely. You can soak the olives for a few hours or overnight if you wish to remove the excess salt found in cured olives

[@Pi2.718]

Ohhh … There is Mic again, looking as healthy as ever 😂😂😂😂

[@MtnGirll]

I get a ton of exercise. I eat about 1-2 T of avocado oil a day and as much fatty whole foods as I want ie nuts, avocado, oats, plus the occasional fake meat, fake cheese in my work sammiches every day and a truckload of soy. I constantly struggle not to lose weight because I still burn more than I can eat.

[@i8dpie]

The only time my HDL went up was when I was eating a lot of olives that I had cured myself.

[@devalillaheart3320]

Sorry to be a downer, but With flavored air, I would be cautious about how they flavor it, because in foods, natural flavors is usually code for containing processed glutamate, which is an excitatory neurotransmitter and involved in the inflammation and addiction pathways. Especially for those with autism, MSG and processed natural glutamate are things to look out for and probably avoid.

[@lwilson4432]

What about grape seed oil--better, worse or similar to extra virgin olive oil?

[@krjohnson29]

For personal enjoyment reasons I've been adding more oil over the past few years (mostly olive oil, mostly high quality). And some dark chocolate. Previously I was very low oil. Surprising thing is, for me, my LDL has been going down over the past 3 years. now sitting around 44. 🤷 I'm a healthy guy though, and I do exercise pretty frequently. So who knows what's going on.

[@Integroabysal]

You need fats for your body to operate well , if you don't give your body fats it will start making them itself and deposit carbohydrates in your fat storages so it can consume it when it needs , you can't avoid that , well you can but you have to lower your calories intake every once in a while , so don't believe this bullshit , i was for 10 years a low fat dieter and i ended up having a lot of problems because of that.

[@JakeRichardsong]

All oil contributes to heart disease.

[@andrewdl6824]

My question would be if there is better absorption of micronutrients when paired with oil, which outweighs the LDL risks.

[@akgakg2426]

well you can always use nut butters instead of oil, for example tahini in salad dressings and soups, or some peanut butter in smoothies, eating fruits and berries with yoghurt that is not exactly low fat (my soy yoghurt has over 3g of fat per 100g), I would hope that is enough to absorb carotenoids and other vitamins that are fat absorbable

[@jp7357]

Hang on ,mover 50% were on lipid lowering therapy and a boat load of other medications high oil to Low oil for ldlc was only 12mg/dl.

[@irinavoicu3412]

I have an issue, if you have been through something similar please share your advice with me: Food has gotten so expensive i can't really get by every day. I don't know what to eat anymore. I can't stand up to cook, i have a broken leg, and that was my way of reducing the costs. What do i do?

[@bluu389]

Bread, toast, oats, muesli, cereals. I often make toast, slap some tomato sauce or paste and olive oil or mixed with cashew butter (but that one is expensive) or soy joghurt on it and put it in the oven for five or 10 minutes. Snacking on cucumber, carrots and fruits you can afford. And couscous you just have to pour over with hot water and wait 10 minutes, combine with peanut butter, herb sea salt, plant milk. Peanut butter sandwich with ready to eat salad or easy iceberg lettuce, or tomato slices, soy joghurt with herb sea salt and some dried herb mix. Vitamin D supplements for the leg, hope it heals within 6 weeks. Nuts like almonds and sesame seeds for calcium are good snacks too. Get better soon 😊

[@irinavoicu3412]

Thank youuuu!!!! ​@@bluu389

[@agataantosik3982]

What is too low BMI according to you? That's confusing. I thought that the lower the better unless very underweight.

[@cactushound]

Since you're bringing up "saturated fat", are you referring to palmitic acid? "Saturated fat" is a general term coverig several fats. Which one?

[@BartBVanBockstaele]

That is *exactly* the question I asked a few days ago.

[@robertusga]

FMD studies for sex and exercise show horrible short-term effects on endothelium like massive dose of olive oil. Giving those up, too, bud? Long term, different story, no?

[@hanspoell]

Interesting study. However the problem is that they didn't control for calories and there was more weight loss and lower caloric intake in the low oil group. Studies on caloric restriction typically show that there is a lot of risk reduction effects of weight loss and caloric restriction independently, so there can't be much conclusions to draw of what, if any, contribution was from the level of olive oil in either direction (beneficial or not beneficial). It would be interesting to equate calories in the groups and to control for weight loss. That would help to make more accurate interpretations of this. But hey thanks for sharing :) Personally, I do think a high quality, high polyphenolic olive oil in smaller quantities should be good even for vegans, but I do also think that it is probably even better to go more whole food sourced based plant fats from things like nuts, avocados and whatever is in the food already (I mean there is healthy fats in oats and tempeh so..). 4 table spoons, being like 500 kcal is just lost opportunity of getting more nutrient dense food with less calories. 1 table spoons may be perhaps closer to some "sweetspot" who knows..

[@willcollins5660]

Hi Mic, can you address if fish oil supplement is ok or do a video on it?

[@nanny8675309]

I don’t think it would be that difficult to eat that many calories in walnuts since 5 have 131 calories.

[@lacedhexes]

For us, vegans, these studies don't convey any info. I wish to know what's the best in terms of oil for long-term vegans. This population was middle-aged meat eaters, they're baseline is much different from someone who's been 10 years vegan. Still useful info for the general public, of course. I don't know how much more convincing do they need.

[@sciencelabvideosl7558]

Thank you for this video. I have also wondered if this was necessary.

[@dritong9727]

i drink a liter of Extra Virgin Olive Oil a month and its been years since I eat a high fat diet since I try to stick to the good ones, I hope Im not on the wrong but it feels right, refined carbs concern me rather! I also eat lot of peanut butter as well

[@JakeRichardsong]

All oils contribute to heart disease.

[@icqme8586]

Discovered I enjoy most foods more without any oil or dressings. Grew up believing everything needs some dressing or oil on it, especially salads, nope.

[@ecofriend93]

Fum needs a feature where it blows out bubbles!

[@Fearzero]

The caloric disparity makes this study useless in trying to measure the impact of olive oil on weight.

[@Suzanne-vegan]

I cut it out completely. If I do have any it makes me feel sick to my stomach.

[@sidilicious11]

Someone needs to invent a totally healthy, delicious non-oil oil substitute.

[@LisaCulton]

There's fat: butter, lard, bacon grease, ghee...all oil-free.

[@kitchenpotsnpans]

What if i can't get fat??? What if i want to put fat on?

[@HoldOnStillProcessing]

Effects of SFA intake on LDL vs Effects of Lower Calorie diet on LDL is the study we need.

[@Integroabysal]

this study is just another rigged bullshit.