New York Crane Collapse Cause, MORE Fatal Collapses

[@joefin5900]

It's the oiler's responsibility to maintain the crane on site. Local 15. You guess a lot in your videos. Things happen.

[@jeffostroff]

It's also the city's job to inspect the cranes, but we saw how well that worked out in 2008 with falsified inspection reports from NYC DOB inspectors. You guess a lot in your comments. You assume everyone is doing their job.

[@arribaficationwineho32]

Not any “oiler’s” job to maintain a crane that is built with substandard metal

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

It might be the oilers responsibility to *do* the maintenance. But that doesn't mean that the operator is off the hook (ethically) for not *verifying* the work was done. E.g. legally the driver of a truck is responsible for the load being secure regardless of who loaded and secured it. Another one; the caption of a ship is on the hook for everything that happens on the ship, even when people disobey orders. Even if someone isn't allowed to do the work, they still should verify for themselves that it was done correctly.

[@Paula-wz3rw]

No not the oiler. That's false

[@shamedgeeky]

I can't imagine looking at a disaster of this scale and being like, "eh, things happen." Like, that's absolutely not an acceptable excuse?!? Things happen, and we examine them to see what caused those things, so that things don't happen again.

[@mathewritchie]

Many years ago I was told that a series of crain colapses in Perth Western Australia were put down to operator error and then someone looked for commonalities and found that all the operators involved were trained at the same company and the same instructor.He got sacked and all his students were retrained and the problem went away.

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

_"What Caused 2023 New York Crane Collapse?"_ He was old and tired. Regardless of how many times he was rubbed down and repainted _(Though he liked the rubbing down bit!),_ there comes a time when a crane stops and thinks, _"Can I really go on with this for another year? Build myself up. Lift this here. Place this there. Lift that there. Put it there. All day long and for weeks on end. Then it's dismantle myself and back into some storage for god knows how long. And then there's the wind when I can't do anything. And then there are the holiday's for my keepers. They go and leave me here. especially at winter. Covered in ice and snow while they're having parties in warm houses."_ So this old fella... This old crane we've seen... He just got tired of life. He thought he'd have to stop. *_But he just wanted to go out in a spectacular way. Which he did._* And try hot to hurt anyone in doing so. Which he didn't quite manage to do. _But then... After all... He was just an old crane._

[@jeffostroff]

Love this!

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

@@jeffostroff Thank you 8-))... I thought your video's on that Titanic submersible were very good. Full of really good and well diagnosed information.

[@bearez1]

I work with cranes almost everyday. Seeing those cranes collapsing is frightening to say the least.

[@raven4k998]

it goes to show if you see something wrong with your crane get it fixed do not ignore it cause as you can see the warning signs kill if ignored

[@bearez1]

No doubt. I only receive materials from the crane on the roof. The hook would be the closest I get to the actual crane.

[@iseeyou1312]

45 degrees give you the longest trajectory with 0 air resistance, the ideal angle with a water hose would be a lot less where wind is also a factor as well. It's not exactly difficult maths to factor in air resistance either, I did it in high school.

[@bobh6728]

The best angle is less than 45° for water moving through air. But the calculation is probably a lot more difficult than what would be done in high school. At least what we did was add in the coefficient of friction between the projectile and the air. But with water this is constantly changing. At first the water comes out as a solid stream with only the outside of the steam interacting with the air. Then it breaks into small drops with each drop interacting with air. These drops are so light that they also change direction. Then even if you get the maximum distance, the steam may be so dispersed that the amount of water actually hitting the target may be very small. The best thing to do is understand these variables and try different angles until you find the one that puts the most water on the fire. Shooting straight at it may fall short giving 0%. Shooting at 45% may reach it but only 25% coverage. Something in between may be the best. It’s like if my shooting target is 10 feet in front of me. There are two angles that will hit it. I can shoot almost straight, or I can shoot up at about 80°. Both will hit the mark, but if the projectile (or water spray) is going to break apart before it hits the target, then one is definitely better then the other. The fire hose in the video may have been at a low angle, but it may have been delivering more water than a shower would if they had aimed it at 45°

[@iseeyou1312]

@@bobh6728 Yeah, for sure. The stuff I did in school was just different shapes and air resistance, which is enough to know that 45 degrees isn't the universal best angle. A stream of water would be extremely difficult to calculate, but logically the angle that delivers the most water to the target is going to be as flat and direct as possible.

[@electrictroy2010]

@bobh6728 AIR resistance can be simplified by treating as a constant force pushing against the water stream. 44 to 45 degrees still gives the best angle for maximum distance .

[@bobh6728]

@@electrictroy2010 If it stayed a solid stream then it would be close. But looking at the video, the distance and effect of wind made it more of a misting than a stream. Since we didn’t see the whole time they were spraying water, we don’t know if they tried other angles and decided which one was the best.

[@DEADB33F]

Just mentioned this in another comment, but a good real-world rule of thumb is that the optimum range will be achieved when the object being fired is **coming down** on the target at 45 degrees. .....no maths required. Just adjust your angle until the thing being fired is arriving at 45 degrees as that's the max range you're going to get. This is what the firefighters were doing in the video (at least with the larger stream which had a chance of getting close).

[@km5lb11]

As someone who has worked with construction equipment and farm equipment sometimes a hydraulic hose can burst unexpectedly with no warning, especially if moving a heavy load and applying high forces to the hydraulics.

[@anncodec]

Am I wrong to expect some redundancy for something that swings and lifts loads 100 stories?? Horizontal directional drills are the same way,,when a line bursts your done,but again it's not responsible for overhead lifrting.

[@redmondjp]

No excuse there - if you are relying upon a hydraulic hose to keep a load in the air, you are doing it wrong. There are load-holding valves used in the aerial work platform industry that are built into the base of each hydraulic cylinder such that if a hose breaks, nothing moves.

[@reformedconvict]

My friend you know about as much about cranes as i rickety submarines my only question is why does it not have q built in fire suppression system in the engine compartment for fires since there so high up in case of a fire pull a lever

[@richardross7219]

The crane collapses that I knew about(1 in the Army, and 3 civilian) all involved overloading. In the Army, it was a Major ordered the the Spec5 to exceed to safe reach and the barge flipped and dumped the crane. The civil ones were all cases of the customer lying about the weight to get a cheaper crane. Most catastrophes have a bunch of errors that lead up to it. When I was called up for Desert Storm, I served with a Major from the Hawaiian National Guard. He told me that they were being flooded with chinesium and they were having a lot of failures. He warned me to watch out for it. Another good video. Good Luck, Rick

[@jeffostroff]

Stockton Crane Company

[@V100-e5q]

Every crane should be fitted with an overload protection system. These construction cranes simply do not react if the load is too heavy.

[@Bralo20]

@@V100-e5q Yes they do tip over, even when there's protection. I've seen it with my own eyes at a company I worked for a couple of decades ago. A similar crane like the last one shown (but a Demag instead) had all the protections it needed and all where in working order. That crane in particular came in for maintenance and since the maintenance took a while the crane had to be re-inspected (here in Belgium it's mandatory every 3 months + a bigger one each year). The inspector had just checked the crane, did severe testing to it and gave it the all clear. When he just walked into our office to issue the paperwork the crane came crashing down (tipped over like the last one). Since it was the end of the day the operator was in a hurry to get out of there and instead of taking it slowly he rushed to get the mainboom and the jib down, unfortunately the safety system was a bit slow in shutting the controls down and preventing certain operations, in the second or so it took for the system to shut down the crane started to tip, the operator felt it fortunately and he jumped out of the cab before the counterweight came crashing into it. The crane was perfectly fine, it was just inspected and yet it failed. It was only after that incident that we found out that the safety system didn't react quick enough. No injuries occured but the car of the inspector was totalled in the process, the hook came crashing right on top of his car, merely a meter of our office. Parts of the boom crashed about a meter deep into heavily reinforced concrete. Obviously the crane's certificate was revoked by the inspector since he was quite pissed at that moment 🤣 But our maintenance department repaired the crane, even some boomparts were recovered and repaired but the crane received a full upgrade of security systems. And the same inspector cleared the crane -again- months later (with his new car parked far far away) 😂

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

@@jeffostroff Savagery spotted 😂

[@CharlesVanNoland]

Thank you for your service Rick!

[@jupiterjunk]

So sad when accidents like this happen. My uncle was a tower crane repair man, in California. He was one of the ones that worked on the crane in place, not in a shop, or on the ground. He made a butt tonne of $$$$$, because of the danger, and liability involved. He gave me two pieces of advice, when it came to cranes. 1.) "If you're not making a living, being near the crane, stay the hell away from them and every place around them. That goes double for one of them." (pointing to a tower crane) 2.) "IF you fail at your job, one of the other guys could get hurt, or god forbid a regular person get's hurt. The second your hand hits that first rung, you inspect as you go. All the way from the bottom up. If you see ANYTHING, you note it and go back down immediately, and report it. And your @$$ better not even THINK of going back up until the problem is fixed properly AND... to your satisfaction." . R.I.P. Uncle Johnny, and save some Scotch for the rest of us.

[@markknister6272]

Nooooo! Not corruption??? In NYC? How COULD it be??

[@mythicprotato7872]

Isn't that what NYC stands for? "New York Corruption," right? 😂

[@TitaniumTurbine]

There’s corruption everywhere, don’t kid yourselves. People should also be worrying about smaller towns that lack oversight, nor have independent resources to investigate, audit records, or keep the “good ole boys” clubs in check.

[@lee32uk]

Lucky nobody was killed 😲

[@bobbarclay316]

I worked on building steel towers. On one job it was convenient to use a crane to hoist completed 20' sections onto an existing tower. I was on the tower top putting in the bolts into each new section as it came up. One section started swinging a bit wild due to 0:06 sudden wind gusts that were getting nasty. As I wrangled the first bolt in place the ground workers let me know about lightning. I heard the boom and saw a flash, and I started climbing down like a scared squirell. We left to get under cover during a horrendous storm. When we next looked out the tower section and crane were at seemingly impossible angles, and the rigging had fouled everything. The crane was up to its axles in mud and tilted a bit. The operator had set 3 wheels in 2 different swales, and the downpour buried the crane in mud. 0:06

[@JamieMcgee518]

Amusement Park rides are a problem this summer, too.

[@Dr_Kenneth_Noisewater]

But but but the melting point of steel…😂

[@mychalson_bot5994]

Facts lol

[@harmlesscreationsofthegree1248]

It seems crazy that there isn’t some sort of mandatory fire suppression system near the fuel and engine compartments 😮

[@geniferteal4178]

I've never heard of this happening before. Maybe they will consider in future.

[@harrythompson6977]

@@geniferteal4178 most cranes in europe use a ground generator and have power cables going up to the motors exactly for this reason

[@stallord8]

I think the only supression system that would work on that sorta fire is the co2 foam which would proabably get pumped into the cab killing the operator. Hence why its probably left to burn since water would just make it worse and you would need a lot of sand

[@geniferteal4178]

@@harrythompson6977 interesting. Make you wonder how they refuel this type.

[@el.aye.bee.4477]

@@geniferteal4178 they use the same crane to hoist a fuel tank.

[@kcgunesq]

I can tell you from reading hundreds of incident reports and being on at least that many related phone calls, hydraulic hoses and seals often burst with little to no warning. When this happens on the ground, it is bad enough. If it was a bad hose or seal, my guess is that one of two things is true. (1) The company failed to do preventative maintenance, or (2) thye got a bad part. Statistically, #1 is far more likely, but #2 does happen.

[@jeffostroff]

I agree with scenario number one

[@ladyeowyn42]

That one on westlake? Scary stuff.

[@whoever6458]

In California, I have seen them put the booms down just at the end of the work day since you never know when there's going to be an earthquake around here. Don't know what the procedure is if they're working when one happens. I'd hate to be the person in cab in that case, especially if the earthquake is a big one.

[@whoever6458]

I had to come back here because I just looked it up and apparently they design earthquake-resistant cranes. They design them so that they won't collapse or drop their load during severe shaking, which is the ultimate requirement for them, and that, in the case of just moderate shaking, they are designed to continue to be fully operational. I have noticed that I've never seen a crane around here that looked anything like the ones in these collapse videos. I didn't go as far as to look into the exact specs but, from the pictures, I would guess that part of what makes them resistant to shaking is that they use a huge counterbalancing weight instead of just some hydraulics. I would imagine that this means less load is imparted to the supporting structure when things start shaking. I can see why they don't do this all the time, though, because it takes up a lot more space. I don't know how they'd do something like that in New York City at all due to the already limited space but they should come up with something as there are actually faults capable of producing a pretty significant earthquake running right through New York City.

[@JoeSyxpack]

I don't think 45 degrees gives you more distance with a stream of water. The further you push a stream of water through the air the more the air resistance breaks it up until its too small to maintain any momentum and becomes subject strictly to gravity and wind currents. It's not like a cannonball that maintains its mass throughout the arc. A higher arc just means it has travel further and overcome more air resistance to try and reach the same distance. Of course, having no arc at all is going to give you less distance than having some, but I think they weren't trying to reach the fire with the flat trajectory hose. Likely they were trying to hose down everything below the fire in case anything burning fell off.

[@V100-e5q]

Physics tells you that 45° is the angle you can throw anything to get the widest reach. Other factors might get into that. But not holding the hose up to 45° will never result in max reach. And those factors are equally at play if you aim lower.

[@ketelin4285]

@@V100-e5q These people are into "alternative" physics , hehe

[@BrainWasherAttendent]

Blah blah blah you said nothing of value

[@OttoByOgraffey]

Different pumps, different size hoses, different size nozzles, all have an effect on how far water shoots.

[@V100-e5q]

@@OttoByOgraffey But the basic calculation is about angle. And that applies to all other factors in the same way.

[@alexkitner5356]

Okay, not sure where they left off in physics class but unless they're launching cannonballs, the ballistic trajectory doesnt hold true with a water stream that breaks up over distance. The ballistic, no air resistance, academic idea goes out the window as the water and air interact and the stream turns into droplets without the mass to force thru the air. A certain amount of lob may help at short distances or when at or below the level of the fire. When the fire is lower then the platform its entirely possible that a horizontal or even downturned stream is on target and offers the most effective applicaton of wet stuff on red stuff.

[@wranther]

I developed an allergy to truck cranes early on Jeff. Just a preference for old school crawlers that were typically stretched way beyond modern chart limits. -Bob... PS: Time to require an adequate plus Fire Suppression System onboard. May not save a header, but helps prever a total combine loss.

[@chocolatefrenzieya]

Ooh, good idea.

[@chrisgallagher3703]

As far as the 45° angle you mentioned that's all we'll and good until you figure in the Wind up there and it was blowing pretty good that day ! So the Line has to constantly be moved to counter the extreme winds at that hight !

[@gpaull2]

A lot of the engineers I’ve dealt with lack real world experience. This is a perfect example.

[@freelectron2029]

as a crane operator i can tell you that your more likely to get hit by lightening than hit by a falling crane. also its very common for cranes to be operating right on the edge of stability limits, and to a degree but less common, structual limits. every day someone will ask you to do something thats beyond your reach or capacity. without doubt. sometimes you do it when experience tells you you can get away with it, and some times you have to put your foot down and say no. and almost everytime its the foreman or someone in an office telling you to do it. crane load charts are very conservative. lifting %110 of your capacity is usually fine, but its the extra factors that make it dangerous and why the load charts exist. wind on the boom de-rates everything. this is one of many unseen factors that can compound the error and give you the accidents you see.

[@Puppylove10012-g]

I'm surprised he didn't mention the crane holding up the roof components of a stadium ( sorry can't remember where) and that crane collapse also caused fatalities. Of course when it comes to engineering 'oversights) no one can forget the condos in Florida. Geesh makes one afraid to go anywhere.

[@lindsayrixon7402]

Thanks Jeff, always interesting to see the nuts and bolts behind these mechanical failures.

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!

[@outdoor044]

"How do you miss a worn hose or loose fitting"... Spoken like a true engineer. Would be just as reasonable to ask the engineer to design an entire system that never succumbs to vibration.

[@Spamhard]

Right. I'm a quality inspector and even we're expected to mis up to 30% of problems. Humans are just gonna miss stuff no matter how hard we try not to, and especially during routine checks. This is usually why checks in my area of work are done by more than one person, are done multiple times, and/or are done more than necessary (something that might only need checking once a week may be done daily just to ensure if something is missed once, its hopefully picked up the next check).

[@tonyc223]

You would think this equipment would be inspected and serviced like transport aircraft.

[@jbrock1265]

Please continue this video including the Seattle crane collapse in April 27 2019. I was told by a construction worker that the giant bolts that hold it in place at the base, were taken up too early while dismantling it. Also the wind was a factor. Would love to hear your explanation.

[@fluxington]

I think he already covered that one.

[@jickmccivy6327]

Taking the bolts out early killed the crane in Seattle and was done by a subcontractor to a subcontractor of another subcontractor for the contractor , Totally a leadership /safty issue , Letting the Schedule drive the work instead of letting the work dictate the the schedule.

[@Murphys2ndLaw]

Looks like the 2nd stream had less pressure. Not so much the angle… but what do I know lol

[@fluffyblue4006]

Thank you. Very informative. It was worth the wait. So it was indeed a diesel engine and hydraulic system up there. I believe, direct electric drive would be a safer option in a city where plenty of electricity is readily available. At one of the video fragments, it was clearly visible when the end of the broken cable whipped out of the pulley that held the jib up. The shock created a plume of dust and debris, clearly visible against the blue sky.

[@ArKritz84]

Or just a separate generator wherever tf, but not hundreds of feet up in the air.

[@melaneymattson3733]

I love these analysis videos that you do. You are so smart Jeff!! Thanks, Melaney from SoCal

[@sidkemp4672]

I'm no expert, but a couple of thoughts. On the angle of the firehoses: distance is not the only factor. It is also essential that the water stream hold together. A higher angle would have put the water stream into the unobstructed wind flow above the highest buildings in the area. It might not have worked. I wonder if they tried it earlier, before the video clip that focused on the drone, not the start of the hoses. From a safety prevention perspective. Cargo aircraft are required now to have fire suppression systems in each cargo compartment. This was implemented when we realized just how dangerous fires can be when they are in high altitude locations that cannot be reached in time. It seems to me that regulations requiring fire suppression systems on elevated crane platforms would be worth investigating.

[@nancylarson7182]

Many years ago in Minneapolis I witnessed from my car on a side street, a scaffolding being blown to the ground by strong winds around 7pm. I heard the next day that they unhooked it as it would be taken down as they were finished with it. Who decided this stuff?

[@chocolatefrenzieya]

I always send a quick prayer towards those high-loft crane operators. You could NOT pay me enough to operate one of those things. Be safe out there, fellas.

[@robertporterfield2023]

Two points: Point 1: Cranes are one of the simplest machines found on a construction site. Even so, I've been amazed over the years at how often they are involved in accidents. There is no end to people's ability to screw up a lift. This includes the ever-present mobile crane and bridge cranes. Point 2: A hose stream does not act like a projectile in flight. Even a well-formed hose stream will begin to splinter as it gets further and further from the nozzle. To get optimum reach a suitable nozzle with the water being supplied to the nozzle at optimum pressure is needed. If, for example, the pressure is less than optimum the stream will begin to splinter much sooner and will have less reach. Once splintering starts to occur, range will quickly be reduced.

[@John-es3qc]

Couple of points, First off the angle of the water, you can see the water is dispersing from a jet right near the crane, if they angled it any more the jet would have dispersed further away from the crane, so it didnt have the range to hit with it at 45 degrees. you can also tell the aditional hose has less pressure than the first as it disperses alot futher away from the crane. Second point is while indeed it could be a lack of inspection, its also possible inspections were carried out and everything was in ordered, minor hydraulic leaks on construction equipment can start at any second in time as nothing externaly visual will be present at the time of inspection on the hoses or connections, assuming the initial report of an oil leak starting the fire.

[@scoobtoober2975]

Thanks Jeff, the engineering is fascinating., The practical, "Stay away" is very helpful. I stay back from cars or trucks towing things. We all know what can happen, and i know it happens often. or a big rig that is swerving. I almost lost my life to that last year. He was swerving and had an over hanging load. He almost hit some barriers and signs, i was well back. I'll be more mindful of cranes.

[@Pippy626]

How do cranes not have electric nominally closed breaks at the top of the rig if power is gone it locks the wire in place

[@johntankson]

Thanks Jeff, always good to see and hear you give your thoughts and reviews on our every day comings and goings. No smoke and mirrors here, very informative as always. Please keep the great content coming.

[@mdude7778]

ChatGPT gave this response to the optimal angle of a fire hose: The optimal angle for a fire hose to reach the farthest horizontal distance is typically around 30 degrees, not 45 degrees. When a fire hose is aimed at a 30-degree angle above the horizontal, it strikes a balance between maximizing the horizontal range and minimizing the effects of air resistance and gravity. This angle allows the water to travel the greatest distance before it begins to fall back down to the ground. The 30-degree angle is often considered the optimum angle of projection for achieving the maximum horizontal distance with a fire hose. However, practical considerations such as water pressure, nozzle design, wind conditions, and other factors can influence the actual angle that firefighters use in real-world situations to effectively combat fires.

[@warrenSPQRXxl]

The physics answer for a projectile ignoring air resistance is 45 degrees taking into account only gravity. However, because of air resistance, one needs more horizontal force for a water stream. If you have a fire hose in hand, the real life solution with would be to vary the elevation till you achieved maximum distance hopefully reaching the intended object fire. In the video, neither hose stream appeared to reach the fire adequately even though it looks like they were higher than the fire.

[@OHYEAAHH203]

Not sure if this was already said in the comments, but I couldn't help but think if we had the drone technology we have today back when 9/11 happened, images and video would have been crazy.

[@tmiklos4]

Two streams may have been the issue. And yes 45° may have helped, maybe not due to the loss of laminer stream due to wind/air pressure. Water flow is much different than a solid shell flying through the air. Air/ wind is different with water ... As a retired firefighter 45° is not always the answer. I am sure they adjusted the angle for maximum actual distance. It looks like the FD was using a smooth bore nozzle which will send water the most distance. I wonder if the second nozzle took too much pressure away. Maybe, maybe not. If they were at maximum pressure no issues of the second hose line.

[@snoozeflu]

Isn't the remaining portion of the crane now in danger of collapse? The boom and the counterweights offset each other to keep it in balance. With the boom now gone, all of the weight is now biased towards the counterweight end. This is putting an extreme amount of strain unevenly on that turntable part. I think they may have to set up a second crane to dismantle this one before it falls and kills someone.

[@el.aye.bee.4477]

Great video. You're on point with just about everything you spoke about. I work in construction in NYC. We work with and erect and assemble and disassemble lots of these cranes, from the smallest cherry-picker to the tallest tower cranes. We are still yet to determine what started the fire, it could be anything, of course, but you are right. The damage done to the main cable on the boom was the problem. Right after this latest collapse (thank God, no one was killed) I got on a social media chat with some of my union brothers that have a lot more experience than I do in the tower crane department...and one of the first things that came up was the fact that Lomma cranes was involved, yet again. The corruption levels of this company are well-known in the industry...and we always talk in hushed tones about the corruptibility of DOB inspectors as well. Even the fact that Lomma got off in the criminal case has been alleged to have been corruption. I wouldn't doubt it. Regarding the crane that collapsed in that bonus footage, everything you said was exactly how it happened. The crane operator started lowering the jib too fast and with the wrong angle on the boom. The only other thing I might add is that the one victim that died, word on the street is that he was told not to walk into a restricted area, and he (allegedly) flipped the bird to the flaggers on duty and did so anyway. Allegedly. Condolences to his family all the same, and may he R.I.P.

[@spyroXcynder1000]

With how many of these cranes are in use (and how often, too) in cities like NYC, I'm not too surprised that it happens this often. It's something that most likely will happen at some point. All you can do is update inspection guidelines after the incident, and try to minimize injuries during. If it comes to who is to blame, it's everyone who works on and in the crane. Regardless of if you are freelance or an employee, you should always check the equipment you are using and report any issues you come across. Then it passes the blame to the person who gives the go-ahead to continue the crane's operation. Unless it's obvious it's going to lead to a disaster, you will never be to blame if something does go wrong.

[@ZMAN_420]

Fire Marshall Bill caught me off guard, I remember watching In Living Color when it came out late 80's I think. Good video. 👍🏻🇺🇲

[@mommachupacabra]

He's been using Fire Marshall Bill a lot lately.

[@ZMAN_420]

@@mommachupacabra I just found the channel lol. Fire Marshall Bill was the best character. Jim Carrey on In Living Color still is funny today.

[@whoever6458]

I was in the fire department when I was younger and they didn't teach us anything about the angle of the water coming out of the hose. However, I also worked for a department that didn't have any really tall buildings or many instances where just the pressure available to us wouldn't be enough to easily reach the fire. Also, literally all the fires I fought were wild land fires and we did medical calls around town other than that. The other thought I had is that perhaps that lower line was trying tower down the building onto which that crane was anchored so that the fire wouldn't spread to the building. In fact, I'm almost certain that they would be putting water on the building because that's something we do if we can to keep fire from spreading from one house to another and also on brush to slow the fire down and help us contain it when it's a wild fire. This still doesn't explain the other hose other than perhaps there being a lack of communication between the drone operators and the firefighters on the roof aiming the hose line since it may have appeared to all of them that they were hitting it. They would have been aiming at the base of the fire since you have to do that to put it out. If you just aim at the flames above the thing that is on fire, all you'll do is make a bunch of steam. I wouldn't be surprised if the firefighters aiming the hose thought they were hitting the base of the fire from their angle. Hopefully, word got through from the drone pilot that they needed to aim higher.

[@whoever6458]

So here's something even more ridiculous about the fire fight. If that was fuel or oil burning, they should have been fighting it with foam, not water, as oil and fuel will simply float on top of the water and continue to burn, spreading the fire instead of putting it out. Maybe the hoses were actually being aimed in an attempt both to cool the surrounding structure and to prevent the building from catching fire while they waiting for an engine with the proper firefighting foam, probably an ARFF unit from the airport.

[@gecko-romanwrestler6323]

If you look at 3:41, you will be able to see they do in fact arc the stream upwards. If Jeff is using the video he shows us as the reference point, then I'm not sure he's accounted for the fact that they may have been holding that hose for hours upwards and it's not exactly light. It looks like there simply isn't enough water/mass to take it the distance and more pressure is needed.

[@godsinbox]

shouldnt build anything that you cant rescue from. Sensible

[@bobh6728]

@@whoever6458 You may right about just keeping the crane cool enough to avoid further collapse and not spreading an oil fire. I wonder how the fire was eventually put out. Foam is a good idea but how do you deliver it to the fire? Would it travel that far from the other building when water wouldn’t go that far? Shooting from the ground would take tremendous pressure. An airdrop from a helicopter might work. I don’t know what they finally used to get it out, maybe just let it burn itself out.

[@disklamer]

Right, it’s pretty hard to see exactly what is happening /over there/ through the spray.

[@murrayedington]

0:12 Incredible to see that the road below remained open with traffic flowing. What were they thinking?

[@Inkling777]

You might do a video on a 2019 crane collapse in Seattle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_crane_collapse

[@aaronknight9759]

Jeff, did you ever research the stage rigging collapse at Toronto that killed the drum tech for Radiohead?

[@FallacyBites]

I would love an analysis of that. I'm just getting into tech theater and know nothing about engineering. Every tiny thing helps!

[@Chronically_JBoo]

The video game Marvel's Spiderman had a scene with a crane collapse in New York City

[@DeadManRunning1]

nice video as always! there's just something funny to me about saying, "i've got a BONUS crane collapse for you" lol

[@mamazalama]

I was witness to "professional" firefighters trying to put out a fire at the top of a dead tree and they had no idea how to angle the hose/water to reach it! It was so frustrating to watch! They eventually just gave up and left the fire to burn out (which was on our property!), so we climbed up there and stuck our hose directly into the hole at the top of the tree and directly onto the fire, which was promptly distinguished by our "amateur" attempts!

[@williamstearns7490]

On our drill rigs we did daily inspections, kept everything clean and painted white, and we’d still have sudden blow outs. We had Pirtek on speed dial.

[@williamstearns7490]

Forgot to add that after one bad voluminous blow out (no fire but smokey) we added protective sleeves and hose whip restraints to everything had thick spill kit diapers under the rigs as a precaution. We also installed these grapefruit sized balls of highly compressed dry-chem extinguisher that explode when fire touches them and shower the compartment. Doesn’t stop the occasional blow out, but reduces the danger. But still, who knows if any or all of these could have prevented that crane fire. Seems the only thing that would is installing one of those aircraft engine extinguisher sysyems or having a small diameter stand pipe up to the crane.

[@jmcenterprises9591]

Jeff, thanks for providing this information-and this service of reporting public safety issues!

[@dhgodzilla1]

I wonder if it was a Playstation Controller connected to it?

[@MassEffectGER]

Probably was made out of carbon fibers.

[@Chris-Singer]

Love your vids Jeff. I will always look out for cranes and mark them with my finger, walking around them. Life saved.

[@DEADB33F]

45 degrees is only ever the optimum angle if you ignore air resistance. That might work fine in academia and "engineering school" but rarely holds up in the real-world. For a dense object with a lot of momentum (eg a cannon ball) it can still be used as an approximation but for a jet of water this very much wouldn't apply. A jet of water quickly breaks up into tiny droplets which are subject to a lot of air resistance compared to their size & mass. --- A good real-world rule of thumb is that the optimum firing angle will be the one where the thing being fired ends up *coming down on the target at 45 degrees*. When outside of the classroom and factoring in air resistance most of the time this will mean firing at quite a bit less than 45. In the case of a high pressure water jet the actual optimum angle will depend on the velocity of the water as it leaves the hose and the size of the stream (a higher volume stream will take longer to break up into individual droplets). This could be as low as 10-20 degrees. In the video of the firefighters dousing the crane you see the main water stream arriving at an angle of 45 degrees as it got to the closest point it could get to the crane. Indicating that that was the max range that could be achieved for that given hose. --- I know it's a small point but thought it worth mentioning.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, but they could have experimented and found an angle that works at least not leave the stream at 0 degrees horizontal, this way you don't have to be too concerned with academia of friction.

[@argusfleibeit1165]

I think it's kind of nuts that we can even build all this stuff without constant disasters and failures happening. We just take it for granted that these things are possible, and should always be successful. If the climate gets much crazier, we'll be seeing really high winds going after these super-tall buildings.

[@driesvanoosten4417]

A 45 degree angle giving the largest distance is only valid when neglecting friction. For a canonball, that is a somewhat appropriate approximation, but for a water stream it is certainly not. The stream quickly breaks apart into tiny droplets that feel a large amount of air resistance.

[@jeffostroff]

If what you are saying is true, why doesn't rain dissipate before it hits the ground, falling from thousands of feet? Yes, you would have some separation of the spray, but for sure at that distance may be 50 feet above the Crane, the water would be landing on it for sure, maybe not all of it, but at least some of it period at least what they have right now. Without horizontal spray, none of it is even reaching anywhere near the Crane.

[@piast99]

A 45° angle will only give the greatest range when you take momentum and gravity into account. Meanwhile, air resistance, wind, altitude difference, water jet dissipation and others play a role.

[@MAXIMUMintheHORMONE]

Corruption in NY? Say it ain't so!

[@bryantgibson4765]

The lower stream most likely wAs cooling the exposures( the tower it was connected to)

[@ianbelletti6241]

I've had to work around cranes. I've learned to stay clear of the operating zone unless I'm actively directing or controlling the load. As far as the collapse due to fire it could be operator error on the operator's routine safety inspection, insufficient/improper maintenence, something missed on the owner's equipment inspections, or just an unpredictable failure. I suspect that noone was keeping the engine clean so the oil on the engine was hiding the existence of a small fuel leak.

[@MassEffectGER]

Somehow, New York City has bad luck with skyscrapers since beginning of the 21st century.

[@denisek292]

Great, informative video! What you described from each crane incident basically boils down to; corruption, greed and laziness. Scary and infuriating!

[@drdrew3]

Enough with the conspiracies. Operator error and mechanical failure are the root cause of most construction accidents.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

45 degrees is only the best for a solid projectile with no drag, no wind and where you don't care about the direction it arrives in. A water stream has high drag and the drops disperse rapidly. That drag might actually give better reach to lower angles under some conditions. If a lower angel works at all, it will also likely get more water on target.

[@jamesplotkin4674]

At 5-mins, the power pack is shown and the device on top is not the fuel tank, but is actually the muffler and you can just see it's flapper rain cap on top.

[@chrisgg80]

great video Jeff, thanks for covering this.

[@rydplrs71]

Air resistance will effect the optimal angle. And the stream breaking up into droplets is another factor in how far a hose can EFFECTIVELY reach. A little backyard experiment with a garden hose and a 5 gallon bucket will give a much different optimal angle. You can see this on the flat shooting hose, it doesn’t just fall short, it’s Also breaking up to the point that there is no stream, just a spread out mist. I have to add another critique. You appear to be an intelligent engineer with little practical knowledge on this subject. The crane operator is required to do regular inspections. It’s at the beginning of every shift. It’s also not possible to inspect every part in full detail, as some would require disassembly, and even just inspection of everything accessible from every angle would take the entire shift with no work being performed. As a final point leaks start at a point in time, assuming there was a leak that caused this fire, it is entirely possible it began after the inspection. I had 2 issues in the last month I dealt with. One was a bolt shearing off dropping a load a couple inches. It had no visible wear and the crack wasn’t dirty or oxidized like it had been happening over a period of time. The second issue was a hydraulic swivel fitting that just blew apart without warning. Both machines are still down getting substantial maintenance and inspection, including items that were not due because of where they were in the PM cycle.

[@johannnorris6350]

Yes, they have a bad safety, wrecker safety for the cranes 🏗️ and then one in New York jib fell off it’s because the cable melted off from the extreme heat. Why do cranes fall down all the time I can tell you an experience knowledge I’ve been clean operator for 15 years tower cranes, and other crates never had this problem. Just use your brain. 😂😂😂

[@wrexracing]

Poor analysis - second fire hose could've been a longer run or lower pressure. Predicting failure of an engine hydraulic hose is nearly impossible. Stopped watching after that, dangerous/incompetent to assume so much.

[@mujaku]

America is importing Chinese construction practices called tofu-dreg shoddy construction.

[@Paulburnard]

Hi Jeff I really enjoy your insight into all these topics. Is there any update on the Champlain Towers Report? Keep up the good work.

[@jeffostroff]

I have one in the works for next week

[@Only-Me-UC]

Would be interesting to compare crane collapses in the rest of the world, especially China. Something must be done about Safety Inspections I'd like to think an aircraft has a better system of safety checks, and that should be the standard system to work off if it's possible? just a thought am no expert on these types of things.

[@jeffostroff]

There is an excellent system of safety checks, but crane operators are not engineers and they will usurp the rules all the time. Cranes topple over because they put them on soft ground with no gravel

[@Only-Me-UC]

@@jeffostroff OK thanks for the info, end of the day someone isn't doing their job.

[@liebherr11602]

There are no Diesel engines in a tower crane. The item identified as a powerpak is indeed a hydraulic unit driven by electric motors. This is a fact , it is impossible and impractical to get 250gallons of fuel per day to a tower crane. And the more boom it has the worse it gets. The hydraulic unit did burn , caused by what ? The motors are suspect I agree. My thoughts are . The fire was caused by a worn seal in the brake gear box. The heat generated by the brakes then caused an oil and grease fire in the gear box assembly. Which then caused the rest of the hot oil to begin to burn as it was sprayed in a atomized fashion.. It was the brakes ,not an engine that caused this. The luffing jib falling out of the air as it did is the result of brake failure , loss of hydraulic pressure and burnt clutches.

[@7eis]

Remember back when people who built canons had to sit on them when they where first shot?

[@MegaLokopo]

If you went to engineering school, you would know 45 degrees is not actually ever the optimal angle. You need to account for all of the factors that effect the stream. Zero degrees can be best sometimes. Also when fighting a fire, you want the stream to hit the fire, not the mist.

[@keepitsimple4629]

I realize space is at a premium in NYC, but why do they insist on building those humongously tall, skinny buildings?

[@MikkoRantalainen]

I guess the problem with the water stream from the hose is that the best possible angle is not 45 degrees because the stream will separate into mist before the water travels the whole arch. If they were shooting metal balls from the hose without air friction, then 45 degrees would be optimal. Other than that, great video. And I think it would be better to underline which parts are speculation and which are actual data in future.

[@nightwaves3203]

Guess you didn't figure out firing high at 45 degrees has the water coming down dispersed and blown by the wind making less water reaching the area.

[@asbestosfibers1325]

i like how they made sure to destroy the buildings glass wall but dont know how to point a hose....... pathetic.

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

Excuse the stupid idea, but I think there should be an automatic fire suppression sytem in those things, like we have on planes...

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

45 degrees is only maximal in theory, it does not allow for aero drag slowing the projectile down. And I am guessing that for a stream of water, all 45 degrees does is add so much distance that the stream turns into a cloud and does not reach as far horizontally.

[@Torq-wy2cr]

All these "UNION" crane accidents going on. To hear them talk, they are the best of the best. NOT.

[@kate2create738]

It is amazing how one small detail can mess up the structure of any machine, a possibly leaky hose of oil, a broken strap, a faulty baring, etc. Normally the videos you show of disastrous results of a structure of some sort collapsing or imploding has some big key lessons, but really the hindsight of this case is to inspect probably at least twice a day or maybe twice every time someone uses it. It’ll be interesting to know if there was a missing responsible party and it could lead to more updated regulations, or at least what comes out of the report. While the fall of a crane can be fatale, it tends to be a rare exception given that if it happens, it happens in a small amount in just over a 15 year span. If certain details does add up and it leads to being an updated process of inspections, will it help prevent this scenario to happen 0 times in the next 15 years will be interesting. We’re probably going to have to remember this case by the time 15 years has gone by to know whether it has worked or not.

[@pcmacintyre]

Just had a couple crane incidents occur in Bangkok. In May a crane collapsed and in June a crane malfunction caused an overpass under construction to collapse.

[@jaycole3768]

Majority of crane operators cant read a load chart. And the dont kno the weight of whats being hoisted they depend on the rig man. I they reply on the crane to lock them out when a load is in tipping danger,

[@beltanewalk8797]

The 45 degree angle for the longest trajectory is only true when both ends are on the same level. I have to question the knowledge of the presenter.

[@strrchristmas]

Having been a crane operator for 44 years, I have never seen a diesel powered tower crane. They are all electric. Think about HOW would a person get diesel fuel to the crane. While it is possible, it is economically absurd when electric power cables have no appreciable ongoing costs. IF you are serious about tower crane accidents of this type, research other KZbin videos for fires on tower cranes. I have seen 4 tower crane fires on video. It is difficult to determine the crane manufacturer but they all appear to be the same model. If this model uses hydraulics, that would explain why they catch fire. Most tower cranes are ALL ELECTRIC with no hydraulic oil to catch fire. A fire would burn the boom hoist brake materials as they are heat sensitive the same as the brakes on your car. Once the brakes are damaged by the fire, the boom will fall. All four crane fire videos end with the boom falling. Concerning the "tip over" accident, this one was ALL the operator's fault. It's clearly visible, the Main Boom should have been at 80 degrees. The jib should have been "jack knifed", as you call it, down until the point wheels were on the ground. This tip over was caused by the operator booming down the MAIN boom without luffing down (jack knifing) the jib down first. You are correct, the jib should have been luffed down BEFORE the storm. I am positive "wind tunneling" (wind being funneled between buildings along a street) was a factor. I doubt it would have been enough to cause the tip over IF the proper procedures would have been followed. I have used KZbin videos to expand and improve my crane knowledge. If I am able to watch an accident and figure out the cause, which often times is extremely easy, then I am able to watch for that scenario and prevent it before it happens. In my career, I figure I have been on nearly 40,000 job sites as I operated a rental crane providing hoisting services to thousands of customers (3-5 jobs per day, 5-7 days per week, year round for 44 years.. In all that time, I have never tipped a crane over, but I have picked about a half dozen up. It takes experience, dedication, and perseverance to be a good crane operator. Some have it and some don't.

[@jeffostroff]

This one is deisel powered, if you look at the used crane listing sites, they show the Cummins deisel engine on this model. It might be an old school model.

[@phil4986]

Negligence. In Washington DC, we have been very blessed to not see this kind of carelessness and incompetence. This should never ever happen- period.

[@Cbd_7ohm]

Dmv stand up.

[@bobh6728]

If they had aimed the hose higher, the water would disperse more and maybe put less water on the target.

[@nivenrowe59]

I enjoyed this so darn much. I actually used my brain to fully get this.

[@jeffostroff]

Awesome glad you liked it

[@nivenrowe59]

@@jeffostroff I subscribed. I could understand the forces involved. It was incredibly well explained by yourself. Greetings from freezing South Africa

[@kb9liq]

sometime people can just talk and not really know what they are talking about

[@mattc3169]

It’s not that easy to hold a 2 1/2” hose line at a 45° angle especially for extended periods of time that’s why.

[@MassEffectGER]

Don't know why FDNY still don't has fire helicopters like LAFD.

[@jeffostroff]

What about a tripod?

[@mattc3169]

@@jeffostroff you’d have to ask the City of New York why they don’t issue the FDNY tripods. But as a retired FDNY firefighter I can tell you that we had enough crap to carry without trying to carry a tripod also. The weight of all that stuff is already more than enough.

[@leighbee1764]

kinda sad NY fire is soo poorly trained, their PD is quite solid

[@hotdogs5265]

Please do an analysis of tower 7.

[@Cbd_7ohm]

Lol a bit late.

[@fireincarnation2348]

Well there's your problem did one

[@NFFCMod]

Where’s Spider-Man when you need him? 😮

[@lyndavandusen1540]

Thanks so much for your hard work in these videos. Keep on keeping us informed.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

I suspect the wind precluded water reaching them at a 45 degree angle.

[@jeffostroff]

No the angle they had the hoses at precluded it. Look at the closeup photos of the hoses, one is resting on a ledge horizontal

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

@@jeffostroff There was another KZbin video that was made very early on before the area was blocked off. The firemen were using a higher angle and the stream was breaking up into a fine mist that had little to no effect on the fire. The higher the angle they use, the more distance the stream has to travel along the arc, the longer it takes to get there so the more time the wind has to break up the stream. If you look at the size of the hoses and the size of the nozzles, they had to use very small nozzles because there wasn't enough water pressure to push water through a larger nozzle.

[@kevinpoore5626]

Tower crane they don't like to stay in the air and it shows Gravity

[@danielclint1033]

Use Union Iron Workers to avoid incompetent rigging.

[@gtaelement137]

Hi 👋 wooow not good danger ⛔️ 😮