Keynote: Tim Keller - An Identity That Can Handle Either Success or Failure

Tim Keller at the New Canaan Society Washington DC 2015 Weekend Retreat sharing about "An Identity That Can Handle Either Success or Failure"

[@pialakin6517]

Enjoy listening to him. Very grateful that his teaching are still with us, though he is gone himself beyond.

[@NewCanaanSoc]

True.

[@marrackimamaable]

Jesus saved me, but also you saved my life!!

[@chuckabean1]

"Your identity is received not achieved. I am accepted in the beloved, then I perform." Excellent.

[@danguerriero3094]

Good summation Chuck

[@kramsdrawde8159]

that is NOT true in a time of smear lies and propaganda today....I can tell you that someone can post lies about you now so untrue ...yet they cannot be taken down....somepne you have never met and their motive is unknown the payoff they receive also is unknown....if you don't believe me ask 20 people who have had things posted about them which were un-true...however, i see where he says this in his context....

[@chrismay3450]

pp

[@stephenscott4396]

I am accepted, therefore I LIVE in the image of God.

[@yumikosawada867]

Thank you, Dr. Tim Keller. I’d forgotten God's grace. I'd been blaming and punishing myself so bitterly and cluelly. I repnted that sin of mime. I believe in His grace, thank Him and rejoice in Him again and forever. In Cristi, from Tokyo Japan

[@pyrsartur3675]

Same

[@jdlandrum]

God has gifted him with such a great wisdom, insight, and relevancy.

[@rhuechantal6316]

I think of Paul when he said that he has learned how to be content with little as with much. Praying for you Tim Keller, for G-d to give you His strength and peace always, and especially as you battle cancer and chemo. I am praying for healing for you and your family. Your ministry is a tremendous blessing in my life. Thank you so very much for sharing your heart for G-d.

[@NewCanaanSoc]

Amen.

[@Apol-los]

"Ancient culture was about self renunciation for the greater good of the community. Modern culture is about self assertion for oneself to be the greatest amongst the community."

[@steflondon88]

He is the best preacher at explaining idols of the heart.

[@tucker8071]

steflondon88 Best preacher, period.

[@sayitwithyourchest3944]

Tucker Middlebrook definitely top 5 of all time

[@sungrae1004]

i agree!!

[@pineapple2pineapple256]

Performance based achievement is so exhausting and unreachable. I am trying daily to really accept my new identity through Christ.

[@patriciadejong6576]

That line ",,you won't change, until you change what you worship", ouch; hurtin' good.

[@pyrsartur3675]

Thank you for highlighting this line. Very helpful summary actually.

[@marilynbouchard-ge5vu]

Thank you Tim I needed to be reminded of GODS grace

[@transmundane_]

This is so incredibly good. What mercy to trade our fifth for his glory, our sin for his righteousness. Thank you Jesus. Help us to know this more than anything

[@NewCanaanSoc]

Great reminder.

[@dang5469]

I love Tim Keller's apologetics. His thought patterns are wonderfully geared towards modern day agnostics and he was wonderfully gifted by the Holy Spirit.

[@NewCanaanSoc]

So true. He had the ability to take historical Biblical truths and apply them to current contemporary issues so well.

[@poyeepaulinema5908]

Soo good and accurate in expounding how Western culture differs from Asian cultures; self-assertion vs self-sacrifice as the basis of identity!

[@imtijeriozukum8464]

In my opinion, Tim Keller is the most articulate preacher who explains ideological distinctions clearly.

[@janieruby2lips]

Excellent Sermon!!

[@NewCanaanSoc]

Amen

[@WATW777]

I can always rely on Tim's ability to deliver the point and get right to the heart of it. Thank you Tim.:)

[@JonnyBgoode737]

Amen! Well said!

[@beexsmith1]

Humility, honesty, and humor . . . such is Tim's life - with his wife - points to God's Glory!

[@irisbristow2977]

I have been brought up to count family as a priority and now at 77 my own children, their spouses and our 6 wonderful grandchildren are always here for each other in good times and bad. Both my husband and I were born into working class struggling families with many issues but we have been married 51 years this month. We are still in love and we are totally committed to our family and they to us. We know many many families in great britain, America and here in Nz where we all emigrated to sme years ago. All our kids, their spouses and grandchildren are here. However, from my reading of biographies and personal contact with African, middle eastern and others we have learnt that in those countries the family name and honour are more important than loving your family and the family puts tremendous pressure on everyone to conform and obey. There is just as much infracticide, wife beating, abuse of children and horrific so called honour killings mostly against daughters. One middle eastern woman told me that even at home she is NEVER allowed to be alone. We are believers and followers of The Lord Jesus Christ but we know many many living committed families who are not church goers. Pastor Keller must be in a very wholly definitional society but even in modern culture there are many many decent young people respecting and relating to their families. So in every type of society we can find families who make love, committment support and protection of each other. So, of course, I would love that they knew The Lord and I pray to this end. Otherwise this sermon is as usual really good and may God continue ti bless Tim Keller.

[@RebeccaHWood59]

What a great reminder to those of us who know Christ. And what good news to those who do not.

[@NYGiantsDiEhArD]

At around the 25-27 minute mark is where things start getting juicy. Because throughout the speech, I was getting frustrated. Being that I am a millennial and supposedly grew up in this culture, I can attest to Keller's articulation that, to summarize best as I can, the primary virtue is advertised as being "self-drive" or 'self-will." In a sense, the ontology of meaning in the secular world can be described as a transcendent or determined will in the face of stimuli. "You have a dream, you have to protect it," courtesy of The Pursuit of Happiness. Or, "when you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful," courtesy of Eric Thomas. We see as being noble the religion of self-assertion, self-drivenness and self-willingness. Asserting your will onto existence means that you exist under your own justification. But there's an underlying issue with these things, as I've learned. All of these things are confounded by the self. They aren't methods for serving or getting tasks completed; they're ideologies. When their moral ends have been achieved, say, such as that they've produced benefits for the greater group, they actually become a liability to these ends, their own self-described "causes." To want to be a "life saver" as an identity factor can only really be contingent on there being lives to be saved; if, say, all the lives were saved, then your need to be a life saver would actually be a liability to the cause of saving lives; you would no longer be happy that the lives are saved. It's funny the kind of wisdom that's in the Bible, because here's the second thing: I've started thinking, what might be wrong with being so driven? Well, for one thing, anything you do and anything you include in your self-concept, your identity, gets contrasted to the outer world; it's a comparison to others. If you base your identity on your achieved ambitions, humble as you like to think you are, you distinguish yourself from others. Pastor Keller is a genius how he articulates this. He explains that any worldly identity, an identity based in virtue, a personally-achieved identity, forces you to be inferior to those who achieved that identity factor and sneer at those who didn't, which is very-quickly a zero-sum game. That is just what the secular culture teaches; you posit a value or a standard, set out to achieve that standard, and then judge yourself and others relative to that standard.

[@kidkratoski3778]

Tim..baby.. you knocked it out the ballpark .

[@patriciacoughlinphd1852]

Human beings have two primary motives driving their behavior from birth until death - the need to attach to others in a secure fashion and the need to be separate and be self defined. You are feeding into the myth of choosing one over the other. Abandoning self for other is not healthy. Neither is being a self and renouncing others. The key to health is to integrate the two - to be an authentic self in relation to others. To care about self AND other. Choosing one and giving up the other is Sophie's choice. Neither one works. We have been created as unique beings who are also part of the whole. This is our life long struggle to find ways to be true to self and other/the whole.

[@Naseefification]

So important! Also if your identity comes in your theological knowledge, you will look down at the people who know less. By the way, the Star Trek person is Wesley Crusher.

[@brentmerrifielda6248]

How can we really know God loves us if He simply allows us to continue living much the same as we did before we bowed low before Him at the Cross? In other words, how can God really be loving apart from His Holiness and Grace that makes us loving (willingness to go to any length to cleanse us apart from His Spirit’s Power that enables us to both choose and live freely). “LORD Jesus, we’re such a glorious mess …please help us both reckon with the sinfulness of our sin & lavishness of Your Free Grace, and then truly Glorify You by walking in Victory! In Your Mighty Name, we pray. Amen!”

[@GordonM46]

Please Listen to this in the context of today's issues.

[@annarichards6056]

I am beyond grateful to God for this message.

[@LD-mv3bk]

his wisdom and delivery is amazing

[@ph9687]

Thank you like your teaching. You are correct when you said that Grace enables change. Praying for you

[@rontwentyone]

Oddly enough just seconds before he referred to Star Trek The Next Generation I was remembering hearing the actress in that show - Marina Sirtis who played Councillor Troi say at a convention not to let anyone tell you who you are, you define who you are. I felt quite uncomfortable at that. I wanted to shout back, "No! God defines who I am and who we all are. Believe in Him and accept what He says about us!"

[@widiah3431]

Thank you. I am blessed, in my pursuit of learning grace... In my heart not only in my mind/knowledge

[@marianneferguson8721]

So gifted teacher … God bless you

[@davspa6]

Outstanding! Explains things so clearly, with such thoroughness. Has no equal that I have seen. Now I understand why the cross is necessary. The holy Son of God, the God-man, physically paid for my sins two thousand years ago, by shedding his blood on the cross. Bulls, goats, and lambs are not needed anymore. So I'm not beholden to the Father anymore. I am free.

[@thepolpol5749]

Still relevant.

[@mikej5366]

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Praise God.

[@tianttaylor50]

🙏🏾

[@cimacisum]

Only God can say who we are because he created us. A clay cannot say what he wants to be to his potter.

[@SeanPlatt-FrameWorthyFaces]

Awesome stuff as always

[@JKM-cy3mz]

🙏🏽

[@susanhawkins3890]

And the most impt. Is wisdom!

[@sawchawn]

Identity - a stable self understanding, who am I really. Self-regard - how do I feel about that? In ancient society how well you played the role in your family/community was the basis of your identity. It was about self sacrifice, doing things for the greater good. Modern society tells the opposite, to do what you like, follow your heart, and strive to achieve it, no matter what anybody tells you. Only you can determine what is right/wrong for you. Expressive individualism - Let It Go song But this has a FLAW - "What is my deepest desire?" what makes you think your desires are in harmony. "You are a being whose wants make no sense". Your desires contradict, so which are you going to choose? A career or a relationship? They're also unstable. If we were to think that we shouldn't care about what others say, we should decide what is right for ourselves, only then we can be happy. But this is also wrong and what we think is RIGHT is based on what the society TELLS us. eg Aggression v/s Sexual desires. Historically aggression was said to be good, and sexual desires were shunned. Now it's opposite, you'd take anger management classes if you had anger issues, but would accept all your sexual desires because society tells you that's who you are. You are not looking into your heart and just being yourself, you're doing what your culture tell you. You can't bless yourself, you can't validate yourself Praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards. We all need somebody that you respect and adore to the skies, respecting and affirming you, and only then will you start to get a stable identity and a positive self-regard. The modern approach tells us to achieve our dreams, it attaches our identity to work, to money. And it gets to your head, if you've earned money, it makes you think that you're more able and wise than you actually are. And if you haven't made a lot of money, it crushes you, you're a failure. We live in a time where people don't believe in sin, they don't believe in hell, they don't believe in judgement, and yet people walk around with a sense of condemnation that they can't shake. Calling them fools, cowards, not living up. "We find ourselves to be sinful but quite independent of guilt."

[@andrewday3724]

The disparity between ancient and modern cultures, to follow his examples, is even more clearly seen in the Disney movie "Moana", but that hadn't been released yet when this talk was given ;)

[@RobertBarnes66]

Anyone have a transcript of this? If not I'm making one.

[@carrieklumb7345]

Timothy Keller's book the Freedom of Self-forgetfullness

[@RobertBarnes66]

+Carrie Klumb Thanks!

[@youngchung2845]

Were you able to make a transcript? Is so, would you consider sharing?

[@RobertBarnes66]

@@youngchung2845 It's in his book The Freedom of Self Forgetfulness. Here's a lot of it I found go.efca.org/blog/understanding-scripture/freedom-self-forgetfulness

[@lyleak212]

At 16:40 I was rendered speechless.

[@RobertBarnes66]

Kelly Lyle I jumped up and ran to tell my wife what he said.

[@josephflahiff5236]

Re: Frozen. Ironically "Let it go" turns out to be her mistake and her expressive individualism put the whole town at risk and she has to take her place in the community to save the town. (The old traditional model of identity formation)

[@mr.e1220]

I lost my identity. I was a fun, outgoing financially free successful real estate investor travelling photographer. Then i lost everything and now i hate living. :( i miss being free to do ANYTHING. Free time. No boss. Loved that life.

[@Jesus_Reigns383]

Can you (or will you) update where God has brought you since posting this??

[@moniquechristiansen5276]

The Lord Jesus Christ used this very cultural reality in my life. I was born into a non christian Euro-Americana humanist style family. For as long as I can remember I believed. As I grew up, I knew it was Christ & I moved towards & in Him. I went against family and culture to assertively live & follow Christ, my Lord & Savior. Then as an educated adult I continued to live in and for Christ. Against the 90's & 2000's american culture I chose to assertively stay home & raise my sons. I find my identity in Christ Jesus. Sadly, there was a(an unimportant to these comments) personal cost to these choices but I follow & live for my Lord Jesus Christ. In Him and for Him. With a grateful heart & spirit & soul. The Lord uses all things for the good of those called to His purposes & those who follow, obey Him. All Praise & Glories to Christ Jesus. Son of Man, The Son of God.

[@moniquechristiansen5276]

From a very, very young age the Lord Jesus gave me my identity. I love, adore & follow Him. He is faithful & true.

[@Troutmaan]

What if you commit a sin without even knowing it :/. Also I’m not religious just curlis

[@caminandoensuverdad]

You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave. (Matthew 20:25-27 ESV)

[@NewCanaanSoc]

First last and last first. Great reminder.

[@YounanYounan]

An identity that is received not achieved

[@soteriology1012]

Sometimes as the NASA saying goes "Gentlemen Failure is NOT an OPTION!" Some issues in life & the fate & soul of humanity itself the only options are success or total ruination & most all are strangely unequipped to succeed.

[@soteriology1012]

Don't you feel at times like you & all humanity itself is dependent on success? Don't you feel at times that there are huge issues at stake personally or collectively in which failure is not an option? Don't you feel at times that you are far-far away and ill equipped for any form of success in time or eternity or in heaven or on earth or under the earth. Don't you feel at times that you don't even have a clue what success looks like? Don't you feel at times that you have been fed from both religion & secularism that the portrait of success they feed you is a load of bull crap?

[@loumancari8342]

+Soteriology101 Don't you feel frustrated when someone asks a bunch of rhetorical questions with no point?

[@loumancari8342]

BTW what IS your point?

[@soteriology1012]

Since Fukushima melted down & is spewing radio-nuclides into the pacific ocean essentially causing most of the world's seafood to either die or become carcinogenic to human life for many generations to come.. Christianity is one belief system that tells me that mankind cannot destroy itself off the planet. Though I believe in Christ I don't know where they get that idea. It is even counted blasphemy the thought that mankind can trigger his own extinction. I suppose it is puzzling to me that a religion that seeks to win souls before the human body dies does not care about preserving human life itself, which it is claimed is definitely a pre requisite for the salvation of a soul. If there are evangelists then who are they going to preach to? Are you then going to be like Pastor Nate Thompson believes he can preach to dead human beings ie ghosts & get them saved? IF God sends you to a mission field & a lion is eating all your potential converts are you not going to be somewhat concerned for their human lives also? I perceive Fukushima to have been an extinction level event unless nuclear physicists learn or have already learned to economically accelerate the decay rates of environmental radionuclides or perhaps transmute them to stable elements. They also tell me you cannot force the return of Jesus. IF Jesus does not return in a few decades then I do not see what is going to save mankind from extinction in the next few decades barring mankind solving the problem he has created. IF this crisis does not cause Jesus to return then mankind is already extinct. If physicists have solved the problem of detoxifying the environment then what is keeping them from using their physics to do so? If they have not I suggest they get on the stick. Either way can you not feel my frustration & inadequacy? If you cannot accelerate the decay of an unstable atom by blasting it with a laser, or pouring acid on it or taking a blow torch to it, or cursing it then I ask why don't Christians care to pray about it while trying to win their skeptical neighbor to Christ lest he perish from it before they can convince him or the evangelist die from it before he can deliver the message. Sometimes I think the devil has access to the worlds greatest technologies & refuses to let most men see it & will kill them if they do. Having studied physics in College & having become a Christian & not being able to do a damn thing to preserve human lives from monsters like this or win skeptical people to Christ is the most frustrating & defeating problem in the world. Why should I not ask a lot of frustrating questions? Why don't you ask them too? I fell like I am not a success on any front spiritual physical economical political sociological you name it. Got quite a few friends but can win none to Christ or even for that matter figure out if they need won. But mankind and his environment is sure in need of something. Since pastor teachers themselves do not ask these questions then there are times that I wonder if they are just trying to make a living with their rhetoric & care nothing about human souls. Like James says if a man does not care about the body then what profit is it to claim you care about the soul? If some of mankind have already secretly solved this problem then another danger of a type of tyranny is in view that I don't even want to think about

[@pineapple2pineapple256]

Your question resonates with me. I too have the same frustration and confusion and I know time on earth is limited and our lifetimes are just a small blip on the screen of eternity. I don’t know what success looks like because I can’t see the broad spectrum of eternity and how one action can be determined as a success. My struggle is with the world and values and post modernism. It seems like the world view is changing daily and there is no solid foundation in which to build on. I feel deep conviction to share the gospel with others because at the rate we are going something major is going occur in our world and we have no control to stop it. If people do not have any solid foundation of truth and eternity at that occurrence at that moment, they are lost forever. If I am put in this earth and my job is to help introduce others to what is the true foundation (Jesus), I want to do my job. The problem I am having is I don’t know how to share the truth in a post modern world. I am so frustrated and feel I am wasting time while trying to find a new way to reach people. I get where you are coming from. We may have different ways of describing our concerns but I think we have the same bottom line issue.

[@pineapple2pineapple256]

Also. I also find it really frustrating that you are clearly expressing where your heart is at the moment and looking for clarity and you receive a mocking and waste of time response from that Lou person. This is so prevalent online. I don’t usually read the comment sections anymore because it stirs up my angst against people and angst is totally unproductive.

[@tsgibson28]

I have found this, along with a number of other Tim Keller messages really helpful, but I don't think it is enough to just meditate on new truths about who Jesus says that you are. You have to repent first and foremost for the idolatry of making something other than Jesus the source of your identity... - and then, as Tim says somewhere around 27 minutes, you need to meditate on the truths from the Bible that rebuild your identity with the correct foundation.

[@zach2980]

All this talk about culture, and Tim points to a god that sends the majority of his creation to hell because of divine hiddenness. Not to mention Tim affirms predestination as well.

[@glennsimonsen8421]

God sends no one to hell. He allows all to choose.

[@smashleyscott8272]

Not a fan