NextJS Is Hard To Self Host

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[@desireco]

In other news, Rails is literally optimized to work out of the box for a single developer

[@brainites]

Those rails, laravel and django developers build and live happily ever after.

[@neruneri]

I'm not a professional programmer, but the more I learn about the state of web development, the less I feel like I understand it. It feels like crazy town all over the place.

[@StingSting844]

​@@neruneri you only see the latest developments on social media. Many people talk all day about vite but work with webpack 😏

[@kellyaquinastom]

So, sounds like rail + ruby, laravel + php... ate there any other good options for self host in js or Python?

[@sheko4515]

Ruby and Rails with HotWire are Amazing!!!!!!

[@Zizaco]

I'm convinced this is overengineering for the majority of cases. Sound like the appropriate HTTP headers (HTTP caching) would solve this. Essentially this is a way to solve imaginary scaling issues.

[@n00dle_king]

That’s like 99% of what’s taking up the conversation space in the web dev community. People with more micro services than end users and people complaining about the first group.

[@jamess.2491]

@@n00dle_king true

[@q4982]

@@Zizaco 99.9999%

[@TheSaintsVEVO]

It’s not imaginary if at least one person needs that feature. And around 9:20 they talk about the point of the video and who this is for

[@Ardren]

If NextJS is so hard to host, then either the framework is a complete dumpster fire, *or* it's designed for the complexity needed by the 0.0001% of websites. (e.g. pre-render page fragments via CDN !?) So glad I don't have to deal with this.

[@Zizaco]

I know right!? The truth is that it's not difficult to host. It's as easy/difficult as any other option out there. If the one hosting doesn't know how to setup nginx and how HTTP caching works they will miss out on pre-rendring cache optimizations, but this is the same for any other tech (go, ruby, laravel, vanilla js, c++). Same if the one hosting doesn't know how to split responsibilities in multiple containers (image processing, for instance). At the end of the day, this is just bike shedding.

[@vncstudio]

I had minor issues deploying to Amplify but once I figured the right options in the AWS console, deployments have been smooth.

[@naught0]

I have multiple NextJS apps running on simple VPSes. Run the app, set up NGINX, you're done. Coolify makes it even easier if you want something vercel-like. Very interested to finish the video and see what kinds of issues they have.

[@samsinite100]

@@Zizaco So getting PPR (which I'm guessing stands for partial page rendering, -- edit stands for partial prerendering) isn't hard to get working in production? The guy says it pretty much only works on vercel and he likely knows what he is talking about.

[@gnaarW]

npm run in a tmux session :D

[@Zizaco]

15:45 In summary, there's nothing wrong with throwing next.js inside a container. That's how all other apps and frameworks work everywhere. It's just that vercel does some additional CDN optimization out of the box. Which is not a big deal for 99% of use cases.

[@Zizaco]

All other technologies (go, elixir, rust, vanilla js, ruby, laravel, c++) being used on the web on all other deployment options also don't have these vercel features out of the box. This whole discussion is fuelled by FOMO of something most folks don't even need in the first place.

[@OGKUSHMX]

100%. You put Cloudflare in front of your nextjs application and boom, you have that CDN you were missing out on. It's honestly pretty easy to self-host nextJs, especially with Coolify.

[@josipX]

yep, completely astroturfed problem

[@balduin_b4334]

All I am hearing is: if you can just throw your NextJS app in a container and it still works, maybe you shouldn't have picked NextJS as a framework.

[@tomiwaibrahim6198]

I don’t know about that Most people choose Next over React for those 1% use cases like being able to cache certain parts of the website for a faster initial load time And if your website breaks because it scaled that could be bad too and really hard to spot(since the website is still rendering, just with an outdated cache)

[@m-ok-6379]

I still can't believe we have normalized seeing preloaders again thanks to JS frameworks.

[@4amSunset]

I love how this channel doesn't pay lip service to Vercel & the likes but instead focuses on the freedom of technology. I'm not even a professional programmer, but I enjoy this very much.

[@roccociccone597]

Yes I agree

[@michaelfrieze]

leerob (Lee Robinson) recently posted a self-hosting nextjs tutorial on his channel. It's a good video for anyone that wants to learn the basics of self-host even if you don't use next.

[@ivan.jeremic]

it's docker bro.

[@michaelfrieze]

@@ivan.jeremic sure, but leerob's video would be good for new devs that want to learn about self-hosting. He spends time explaining things.

[@hello19286]

Did you even try watching more than 20 seconds of this video?

[@michaelfrieze]

@@hello19286I watched when it was live, why do you ask?

[@paxcoder]

@@hello19286 Can you substantiate your implication?

[@thegrumpydeveloper]

Love that framing of the capability from owning a deployment platform and being able to use two ways to solve the problems

[@spicynoodle7419]

Go on the frontend && JS on the backend

[@Slashx92]

🔥🔥🔥

[@colinstu]

GO on both.

[@jounouchi123]

we have been hosting next application on containers in our local servers. it works great

[@timschupp2080]

Answered in the first minute of the video haha. But generally agree throw some infrastructure at it love to host them in self managed k8s cluster, but there is arguably a significant performance downside bypassing all the CDN optimizations that way. But sofar all been going fine that way.

[@timschupp2080]

Btw for k8s there is also some helm charts that allow many of the mentioned pitfalls / paper-cuts to be solved if you use Kubernetes. But generally not to fond of nextjs myself so as I see this a just a 'anti-vercel' you-tube bomb I support the message, but other than that the video feels fairly thin.

[@elclark_id]

Just to summarize this for you. What he's basically saying is. If you throw nextjs on a container and it works, then you don't need nextjs in the first place. Just use react or solid.

[@Standbackforscience]

Frontend is an overcomplicated mess ....

[@moritzschuessler]

Prety much all the issues arent frontend issues. Its mostly backend and infra issues. Caching and distributed systems was never easy and will never be.

[@MP-ik3pt]

It is if you don't know what you're talking about

[@rjmunt]

Try building a complex app 15 years ago.

[@Standbackforscience]

@@MP-ik3pt Sure thing kid, keep telling yourself that.

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

I'm not sure I understand the mechanics of the feature described in 2:55. What does it do exactly and why can't you just serve a cacheable static file that lazily loads the dynamic components?

[@UnidimensionalPropheticCatgirl]

because then you would be doing multiple roundtrips, this way you technically do it in a single roundtrip… Yes your aproach works and is way more intuitive but you create more traffic.

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

@@UnidimensionalPropheticCatgirl How does it work in a single roundtrip. Do they use a reactive stream?

[@UnidimensionalPropheticCatgirl]

@@HyperionStudiosDE I honestly don’t fully understand how exactly it works, it does some suspense insanity… From what I understand it keeps the static part of page cached on the edge and when you actually send the data through that node it somehow ties it together, but you are probably gonna read through the docs to figure it out, it’s called PPR.

[@Exilum]

Basically when you do a request, you get served a static page and a few streams. These streams are internally forwarded to the actual NextJS instance, which does all the dynamic stuff. The browser never has to make another request, it just receives all the data it needs in chunks. From the browser's POV, it's all from a single request to a machine, while on the infrastructure side, it's actually from two different machines a CDN on the edge and a NextJS instance that can be either on the edge or in a static datacenter.

[@XDarkGreyX]

Throwing one boomeramg and you get hit by several others over the next minutes as you go about your business.

[@klex3905]

Finally someone who isn’t a cult member of any particular tech. “Just use what you need” if it’s production absolutely right. I’ve not needed to touch next for anything other than hearing people rave about it, I didn’t like it. I don’t like not being able to know what’s going on. A docker container for a website is like a Wi-Fi connected fridge. SSR will destroy companies.

[@JohnSmith-gu9gl]

Switched from NextJS to Remix. Scaling and self hosting is so much easier. Wasted a lot of time and energy with NextJS. Try Remix!

[@-Jakob-]

also make sure to checkout vike

[@DavidBreneisen]

So an advertising business model is like a flexible pricing structure to extract the most amount of value from every single user. The billionaire gets shown superyachts and the pleb gets shown ramen.

[@rns10]

I dont think any framework or programming language provides inter server operable cache. Usually you always use a global external cache. So why next js is expected to have out of box cache that will work in 2 docker servers. I dont use next js, but seem like not a good example to not use it.

[@elclark_id]

I think from my understanding, the point is nextjs is making it hard to do it while other frameworks don't even try or advertise it as "nextjs features"

[@siliconhawk]

basically people who "NEED" these super high need solutions either have the money and talent to deal with all of these problems themselves or they have enough money that vercels bill is not a issue. if you are neither then you don't NEED these features

[@AdityaTripathi]

I was so fed up of all this, moved to Laravel and it changed my life.

[@MrTheSmoon]

so did i understan corectly the goal of venture scale is to become a monopoly and then enshitify to squeeze profit but this is not an inherently bad thing?

[@kriss1_]

So many words, so little content

[@Kane0123]

You must have played it on mute or something

[@xdeebsx]

"You're not gonna run into these issues unless you have a whole community that's talking about what they're running into" is the golden.

[@goldsucc6068]

My organisation use nextjs as frontend, no issues... we are using standalone static delivery solution, running in container. no time to watch full video so sorry if off topic. even if some features are missing, not a big deal, still passes lighthouse with 90+ performance score. not sure if paying 2x-3x and vendor locking to Vercel worth it, not even sure benefit will be even visible

[@Zizaco]

You're right. There's no feature is missing. I'm convinced this whole discussion is cargo cult / overengineering.

[@goldsucc6068]

@@Zizaco probably, haven’t watched vid. I just fast forwarded a bit, like he is saying next js without advanced features just routing no reason to use it, that’s complete nonsense, next js also provides nice SSR setup, and yes, good routing, helps code organization, build tools included, nice way for config organization, nice way to load css. Only routing? It is the best front end framework available at the moment imho

[@jeffwells641]

The whole point is to be feature complete to match as a self host what Vercel provides as a host. You definitely do not get this with your frontend running in a container. And that's fine, if you don't need all the features Vercel can give you, then you don't need a feature complete NextJS to meet your needs. But you can't tell me your docker container is a match for Vercel. If you try to tell me that you can, I will call you an idiot or a liar.

[@Zizaco]

​@@jeffwells641 Exactly. And the thing is: all other technologies (go, elixir, rust, vanilla js, ruby, laravel, c++) being used on the web on all other deployment options also don't have these vercel features out of the box. This whole discussion is fuelled by FOMO of something most folks don't even need in the first place.

[@goldsucc6068]

@@jeffwells641 woah man you are arguing with some imaginary friend here, I literally said in my comment that even without all features next js is perfectly fine to us, passing benchmarks etc. so it can run in production self-hosted easily and it is not worth it for us to 2x-3x cost and vender-lock for no reason. BTW imho for 99% cases even for mid-large organisations it meets requirements without vercel

[@wlockuz4467]

The timing of this video is interesting. Lee Robinson (the VP of product at Vercel) just uploaded a great tutorial on how to self-host Next.

[@grug_smash_keyboard]

great work from the open next team! so if some of the next's features rely on their infrastructure and does not work outside that infrastructure, can they still market it as a framework feature? there's a certain level of deception here and im staying as far as i can in the future

[@Exilum]

The way I see it is that it's really easy for 99% of people, and it's really hard for that 1% that have a lot of users and need these infrastructure features. I pretty much have 0 users, so I can just throw it in a container and set next caching expiration time to be low (like 60s) for anything stored on the database so even if I have multiple instances running at peak each instance can at most be outdated by a minute. That plus routing affinity users to always hit the same instance and no-cache on some real-time stuff and I'm good to go.

[@jamesm5192]

The multiple container issue is the worst part! For those saying "skill issue," please tell me how you get one container to get networking to another container at build time in docker without creating a rats nest of nonsense... All to be able to use nextjs because your javascript developer demanded it.

[@albertoarmando6711]

The last sentence is spot on. They will introduce complexity to your system by adding tools that are not needed, so they can update their CVs and quit the company.

[@moritzschuessler]

simly dont use the additional stuff. Throw it in a docker container and call it a day

[@jamesm5192]

@@moritzschuessler So you don't know what I'm talking about... "It" = a set of services, at least one of which is nextjs. Therefore, during its build, then it needs to talk to other (already running) services in order to build. The fact that everyone has this mentality means they don't understand what it means to self-host nextjs in production. There's no sense in using docker if you insist on putting everything into the same docker container.

[@moritzschuessler]

@@jamesm5192 so if you use for example a go backend service as connection part to a a react frontend, is it so much different? No because you also need to put the different backend services and frontend app into different containers and orchastrate them Why is the work with nextjs so much worse then a other more traditional approach?

[@hello19286]

@@jamesm5192 How is a basic distributed system problem a nextjs problem? Your container communicates with other services through a private DNS. This is very easy to add in AWS and has nothing to do with nextjs. Sounds like you’re just blaming nextjs because you don’t understand docker and distributed systems.

[@ramonpereira4460]

Regarding cache, the thing is that you don’t need a distributed cache. Just recycle your containers and that’s really it. No need to add infra for that. Let the cache be in-memory and whenever you need something to be updated that is cached, think whether this thing should be cached in the first place, then use a rolling update strategy

[@nuvotion-live]

Sounds like a tiny subset of features for a scale relatively few projects need. If you already made the choice to host it in a docker container, you probably don’t have the scale or global decentralization. Personally I’ve done the single docker container approach for years without a single issue. I have no interest in all the bloat, just SSG, SSR, ISR, and their easy API routes. It’s perfect for small projects.

[@mantovani96]

I’ve reached to about Nike and I don’t know why are they even using Next. It’s an institutional website, they could literally built that with any other framework or event without one. People want to use Next for everything, and they want to complain when they realize how hard is setup infrastructure like Vercel from scratch.

New old problems. All those technical features have been handled in many apps over a couple decades without VC or PaaS

[@AlecThilenius]

I just don't get it. Devs all understand the concept of premature optimization when it comes fo CPU cycles, but for some reason we throw that out the window when talking about web. Where are the metrics that show this level of complexity is worth it, and couldn't just be solved with a sane SPA bundle size? It's phenomenally expensive, in developer salaries.

[@complexity5545]

Why would anyone who knows how to self host, even consider self hosting nextjs? That's like a construction builder living in a trailer park instead of building himself a house.

[@polotastique]

Google Firebase App Hosting supports Next.js with serverless functions, but might miss some of the more advanced features not sure. Still in beta, but could be an option and has worked well for one of my production deployments.

[@AlexHerlan]

Interested to watch this. Is nextjs actually hard to self host or has the new generation of developers gone soft? Also ... Seriously people... Docker rules. . It's so easy and convenient once you get over the hump of just learning it. It's no more difficult to host or use than using and learning GIT. I'm shocked at how many devs I meat that don't keep up with their infrastructure tools that actually abstract away the need to be very good at infrastructure. I guess I'm taking for granted that I'm an oldhead now and have grown up with and as all these tools were made. And so I have a unique perspective on how and why all these tools exist and are nice to have. Edit: tl:dw; learning Kubernettes. Just because next.js isn't prescriptive with specific ways to scale doesn't make it impossible to roll your own solution. And do it in a docker container. Not every project is Netflix scale I'm declaring skill issue.

[@OMFG5716]

Most of my clients do not reach that scale, isn't that true 80-90% of the software out there? Why Vercel then? I am happy with hosting Next.js in a VPS+PM2+Nginx close to my users. So, does my app need this kind of complexity? Nope, thank you.

[@ikirachen]

i like the taste of Vanila ...

[@Kane0123]

Pre TBC was the best

[@Andrew-zv1vw]

That is why i use rails for my project as a solo dev. But i use js at work. Real artist ships (©Jobs)

[@connorskudlarek8598]

I really want Theo to react to this. Given he's so close to the team and a daily user himself. Curious what among this really is skill issue, how often it is a skill issue, and how often it actually is a problem.

[@banwa_non]

Theo is a moron

[@Kane0123]

Probably want the perspective of a good dev - GOTTEM!

[@Dipj01]

He'll just brush off any criticism towards Next

[@DaniIhzaFarrosi]

Invite Rob next

[@romankoshchei]

Fly IO doesn't use Docker. They use Firecrack microVMs

[@jamess.2491]

jeez its almost like it's designed that way to make Vercel more money...

[@some1and297]

NextJS is hard to self host on the edge with the same edge-to-framework features vercel with react has. I don't know how this comment section believes dax is just pretending to be doing something?

[@benotisanchez5583]

As someone who has deployed a good number of next js apps on virtual servers (and personal servers exposed using cloudflare zero trust), both in docker containers and natively, I can say Next JS is pretty easy to deploy on any server. I use the pages router for the most part so there's that, the one site I have running on the silly app router deploys just fine, though it's not a complicated web app. If you have issues deploying next js apps you have skill issues. And you probably think next js is a frontend framework.

[@Gonzakoable]

oh wow, on my first nextjs project I actually got it self-hosted. Tho It did feel pretty unintuitive. (I wanted to learn react). (And yeah I just threw it in a docker container)

[@edhahaz]

Off Vercel you have to figure out scaling yourself, just like in any other framework. Shcoking.

[@moritzschuessler]

Yeah and you also need to handle caching with all its invalidations. Its like: we all know caching is hard and will never be easy when doing it in a distributed system. Thats why infrastructure guys earn money

[@banwa_non]

I'm glad I moved to Rails... Next is just unnecessary complexity. It really is a time sink.

[@owenwexler7214]

I always use a PAAS for NextJS apps instead of self-hosting so this is going to be an interesting watch for me. Then again all of my NextJS dev environments are completely local and not Dockerized at this time (will probably move to a Supabase backend for most or all of them once I get enough of a handle on Supabase to be functional at it), which is kind of like self-hosting?

[@Andrew-zv1vw]

Also next.js every time introduces breaking changes. Update it is a nightmare

[@willhleucka821]

Feels like abominable cruelty

[@happygofishing]

The ABSOLUTE STATE of webshite lmao.

[@andythedishwasher1117]

My ideal solution for the problem that Next JS tries to solve would be to define server and client behavior in a code generation framework that generates server and client side code separately in my chosen language on each end, ensuring compatibility with whatever technology I happen to be constrained to on either end. I'm working on such a code generation framework in Go, but it's early days.

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

Bro, isn't that just OpenAPI?

[@giorgos-4515]

​@@HyperionStudiosDE And it would also be great if there was a frontend openAPI equivalent, might do it on my thesis(openUI is taken already...)

[@spietrza]

Coolify = easy way = 1 minute

[@jvuyuxcvxhykykyu3653]

so for someone that uses spring as backend (basically to have the business logic and provide the data trough an API), which frontend framework would you recommend? Just react? Is there a frontend framework that is somewhat simpler, but still robust and productive?

Depends on the complexity. HTMX might be just what you need. React is more of a safe bet.

[@pyrocentury]

react by itself just provides a component-based architecture and partial rendering solution. That's the case for most javascript "framework" libraries like vue, solid, svelte, etc. Angular provides routing out of the box, but imposes a more MVC pattern. If you start scaffolding with you want other things like routing, you'd have to add a 3rd-party library like react-router, etc. Honestly not that complicated and the third-party libraries you may need to reach for will have pretty straightforward and detailed documentation. Once you have the scaffolding down with the libraries you may need for your project, productivity just depends on your skills and the scope and complexity of your project.

[@HyperionStudiosDE]

Vue with Vuetify as a component library if you need a SPA. If SEO is of importance throw in Nuxt for SSR. Depending on how simple the site is you could also just use a template engine like Thymeleaf with a CSS framework for styling.

[@michalzarddev]

i'd recommend looking into either svelte or astro or something else, i dont believe in react & angular whilst being angular andy in my day to day. + both svelte/astro have nice perf

[@UnidimensionalPropheticCatgirl]

mithril, htmx and elm are three options which are exactly that; simple, robust and productive, but they have their own unorthodox (in relation to react) approaches to stuff. Solid is basically what React desperately wanted to be. Vue and Svelte are kinda different takes on the react approach to SPA. React is react. Also from my experience, lot of people who do java on backend really like to write angular, which I wouldn’t call simple but it’s robust and productive, plus decently popular still. Jquery could be option if you don’t mind that style. And hyperscript is pretty interesting but I would not call it robust.

[@lostsauce0]

All this, yet somehow almost every website still loads slow as shit

[@privacyvalued4134]

In other news, PHP just works fine. The only reason you have to massively scale JS on the server is because JS isn't designed to run on servers. Stop using the wrong solution for the problem you are trying to solve then you won't need Docker, Vercel, or other obvious, blatant trash.

[@evergreen-]

PHP = blatant trash

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

Did yall watch even 10 mins of the video or just rushed to comment 9:50 clearly says it is for advanced scaling, on edge compute low latency. If you dont need that you are not affected by vercel

[@dacam29]

A simple SPA!?! They said SPAs are dead!?

[@Veretax]

It has some interesting things but man when you're so used to the MVC design pattern model happened to think of things nested in directories in a way to where permissions and navigability discoverability work is kind of weird. If next JS is not great for people who are going to have to self host who can't afford to pay for sale what should they use instead with no JS or react?

[@italktocomputers1901]

This is what drove me to use Remix. A lot easier to host on a lambda.

[@lerpmmo]

and then the day comes when cloudflare just caches all your shit behind the scenes with a single button or something lol

[@josipX]

It's not hard to self host, 99% of people don't need these weird edge case features

[@viktorlza]

Is caching via a CDN an edge case feature? Looks pretty necessary to me. I'd love you take and experience on it.

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

​@@viktorlzaDid yall watch even 10 mins of the video or just rushed to comment 9:50 clearly says it is for advanced scaling, on edge compute low latency. If you dont need that you are not affected by vercel

[@kellyaquinastom]

Dax deserves thumbnail

[@nickmonad]

The real content is the discussion about VC money and open source

[@hard.nurtai4209]

thank god i am not a frontender

[@clips8755]

Selfhost isn't hard when you can start up a coolify server. it similar to vercel but you have full control.

[@bitsky666]

guys re your coffe shop, I tried vi command and it asks me for email wth is this emulator, it sucks

[@rizkiaprita]

why do i laught when he said ppr

[@serenditymuse]

There are many ways to precompute HTML server side. Why would developers settle for just one? I agree that a tool that forces you to one infrastructure choice is bad. But I feel the same way about a lot of "coding for the cloud" that incorporates too much that is unique and proprietary to that cloud. As we are in an error where a cloud going down can take down and huge part of the world of applications and sites and worse, in a world where de-platforming by a cloud provider happens this is not acceptable. I also worry as a software architect about architecture for business software stacks that is build not starting from the actual business needs and goals but by what building pieces a particular cloud or set of cloud providers provide. This artificially limits thinking about what software is best and needed. It also drives costs up for little good effect in terms of business needs and pivots. It bogs down software teams on deep knowledge of the clouds involved and leaves less time for in depth understanding and meeting business needs.

[@LearnValkey]

Whenever you run a global app & need to care about latency, running anything gets complex and requires loads of work.

[@nazarm6215]

PPR is not that complex. What Dax is arguing is for Vercel to release all the R&D so someone else can build out a copy of the Apple iPhone lol

[@DriftJunkie]

At this point, just use Deno 2 with Fresh 😂

[@cidhighwind8590]

Works fine with me self hosted.

[@th3Tyk3]

Serverless is maybe one of the crappiest ideas to ever come from the JS community.

[@gruntaxeman3740]

Serverless is ok. It can make huge cost savings.

[@leonvolq6179]

Yeap, worked in an energy drink company. Their backend was a serverless nightmare. One lambda for every API endpoint and on top of that graphql. OMG made me wanna quit programming. That shit could be one simple server in a docker container and no graphql. Stupidest thing ever 😂🧋

[@gruntaxeman3740]

@@leonvolq6179 One lambda for every API endpoint: nightmare Serverless: not nightmare I do a lot serverless but I just make container instead of lambda.

[@Dipj01]

​​@@gruntaxeman3740yeah huge cost savings till you get dosed, then its bankruptcy

That next.js is insanity, you cannot figure out wht is being rendered/executed in the server and client without prior knowledge or reading the doc. Something even a total nood can figure out in a Java/.Net server.

[@mornwind318]

I was self hosting NextJS like ten years ago, what's happened?

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

Did yall watch even 10 mins of the video or just rushed to comment 9:50 clearly says it is for advanced scaling, on edge compute low latency. If you dont need that you are not affected by vercel

[@aaronhamburg4428]

We own the framework and a hosting platform so we can choose to fix issue on the hosting part of things, just because is the better way to do it, this forcing you to use our hosting has nothing to do with it. This framing is complete horshit, if the framework works only on your host then the framework is crap, simple

[@ijchua]

If you have more microservices than you have active users per hour, you're doing it wrong.

[@orderandchaos_at_work]

Does anyone remember having SSR/Caching for free with something like Symfony/Laravel with a smattering of JS where needed?

[@orderandchaos_at_work]

JS is a damn shambles

[@mornwind318]

I had SSR/caching a decade ago by putting some redis in front of React, that's not rocket science.

[@AgentZeroNine1]

Watching the React world spin in its own insane hyped tornado of dependencies and pattern reinvention is nuts. Makes me cling onto regular (semantic) HTML, JS (sometimes TS) harder. I'd probably still be trapped in the React tornado if i never took time to learn the web's native and modern APIs (JS Web Components, HTML's Declarative Web Components and CSS module scripts made web development awesome again), alongside design patterns (especially patterns around state management) and Node.js w/ Express.

[@infantfrontender6131]

Native Web APIs are good on paper but make you suffer in real projects. I gave it a try three times to WC and still prefer React. Yes, React is complex, but it solves all my problems and makes business happy.

[@ariflogs]

so why does no one bitch about Laravel, Rails, Django or any other framework that you host on a Docker container and doesn't have the Vercel features?

[@connorskudlarek8598]

Because it is the Laravel, Rails, Django, etc devs that hate on NextJS. NextJS devs are too busy shipping products to Vercel and not giving a damn to be bothered going and complaining about the lack of features in frameworks they're not even using.

[@l10nbit]

The NextJS self host server has had a memory leak for a very long time. The memory leak is not present when you host on Vercel, or they were auto restarting processes n their backend. After a few months, I switched to remix. Maybe the leak is fixed now, but I wont know.

[@russtran]

It was because of the Image optimization I think, also dealt with OOM since version 10. But it fixed now, our team has been rocking it on AKS pod forever without any issue

[@chocolate4212]

Kagi is a better example of a subscription based search engine than LLMs. And I think it's fine for niche users, and doesn't have to have mass adoption like Google.

[@gruntaxeman3740]

I'm always fascinated about new technology and dive in when I hear something new. When I hear about nextJS years ago. I make my conclusion in minutes: -> next It goes so wrong in many ways that I didn't bother to write even Hello World in it.

[@DamianL-o4e]

JAVASCRIPT ON THE SERVER!?

[@jagadishk]

You surfing the internet on IE 5.5 on a windows 98 machine ?

[@DamianL-o4e]

@@jagadishk Oh, you're running JavaScript on the server? That's cute. You know, I once tried to run Internet Explorer 5.5 on my laptop. Sure, it lit on fire, but at least it didn't pretend to be a full-stack ninja while taking down half the internet with one typo. Server-side JavaScript? Might as well let a hamster run your backend at least then you have a backup when it crashes!

[@infastin3795]

Prime has made a buffoon of himself.

[@AR-yr5ov]

So basically just caching is hard? Ok. Lmao. Why does dax need to make it seem so convoluted jeez.

[@elvispalace]

container?

[@Nolman]

Dax on KZbin is nothing like dax on x.

[@blue_name_warrior]

Next and React will torture less people if not sponsored by Facebook and Vercel or Theo stops making videos :)

[@jackdanielson1997]

Remix

[@realmasterkush]

skill issue

[@monkemode8128]

Yup. Not hard. In the 90s we wrote web servers in assembly and deployed them via floppy disk.

[@rnts08]

Literally skill issue. If your organization is dumb enough to rather pay vercel over an ops person, it's their loss.

[@DerTechNick]

@@rnts08 the best do both at the same time

[@developer217]

Maybe try to host an app that is not a todo list first

[@Kane0123]

Yeah but you need more personnel to insert floppy disks into containers and they scale up and down.

[@Maplelicker]

This is why i invented previous.js

[@djketran]

when you build nextjs as standalone, they give you the all the static files, its easy to just stick them in a cdn and set your nextjs config to where they will be, or using cf set the static files to be cached after first hit, not sure this is a really a skill issue tbh

[@warrenarnoldmusic]

Did yall watch even 10 mins of the video or just rushed to comment 9:50 clearly says it is for advanced scaling, on edge compute - low latency. If you dont need that you are not affected by vercel

[@albertoarmando6711]

They will yell 'skill issues' when Next.js is a skill for the unskilled developer. There are better tools and alternatives, better skills to invest on.

[@hello19286]

like what? Shitty monolithic PHP and Java Spring apps?

[@poderosoexcalibur-yp3kl]

@@hello19286yes

[@albertoarmando6711]

@@hello19286 yes, Laravel and Spring are much better options than Next or Nest. Don't take it too personal, this are just tools. Try Rails for a week, it is an amazing framework.

[@charlie64x2]

Shitty Java and PHP? Which enable like 90% of enterprise applications and web pages around the world… yeah those are shitty compared to NextJSh1t smh…

[@hello19286]

@@charlie64x2 90% of the web is shitty wordpress apps that take 10 seconds to respond to a request and Java EE apps that are impossible to update from Java 8, so yea, checks out.

[@Allr3dc]

I have spent so much time getting my company’s nextJS front end deployed. It works, but Jesus it’s a pain

[@jrrrohm]

no it isn't, especially if u use docker.

[@LucasAlves-bw9ue]

I always knew how bad nextjs is.

[@charlie64x2]

NextJS is an aberration.

[@modernkennnern]

You mispronounced abomination

[@LutherDePapier]

In other news, Lee made a video on how to self-host Next.js.

[@q4982]

Nextjs vercel all are shit 😊😊😊

[@dixztube]

Do a video on strapi