Ni = "Introverted Intuition" Pt 1 = Parameters & Keirsey's NJ Roles.

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Ben Vaserlan's "Wilma & Housemates" (2024-)

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@SabrinaSterlingGA 2 жыл бұрын

WOW! The music 🎶 comments resonate with me.

@SchizoidVision 2 жыл бұрын

This was a thought provoking discussion. I'm still working my way through your collection of 'Model V' videos :) Nice to see the individual cognitive functions looked into in-depth. I think that its interesting to hear what different people have to say about Ni. I think that whenever Ni is discussed, the realm of definitive coverage is only ever scraping the surface of its usage as it's challenging to get a read on the totality of operation of Ni, and what Ni actually does as a function. I think that Ni operates outside of all things physical and measurable, and this includes the spoken and written language and for this reason it does not lend itself well to description. Which is indeed fr me a frustration, when trying to share or translate it's functionality. In cosmology they can trace the physical universe back to the big bang, but they cannot account for what took place (or is currently taking place ) outside of this physical universe. I think this is relatable to Ni, as to me, its seems to operate distinctly separately from physical existence, Yet it can create physically related phenomena, in terms of ideas produced and emerging. It's like a kind of nebulous type energetic field, that gives birth to the potential for solidarity, in conceptual format. Then again to another person, or on another day...another string, combination, or composition of 'words' could be used to describe Ni. It rather seems like saying what does Ni do functionally... Is a 'bit' like saying 'What can water be used for functionally.' So, yes many of the points made in this video are relatable in terms of what Ni has the potential to do functionally... But yet still I think there must be so many Ni doms that are unsatisfied with the general descriptions available, as there is only so much that can be said in words. I find that looking into how Ni works with the other introverted cognitive functions is interesting from an introspective point of view and I think I've learned a lot about myself through doing this. I appreciate that you are taking the time to really look into Ni theoretically and make greater sense of its usage as a function. This was an enjoyable watch and I look forward to watching part 2. Also great to hear Hailey and Jonathan's contributions on this topic.

@BenVaserlan 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, PB. :) In part two, I'll get into the Jungian mechanism more re the relation between the phantasy-image and Ni. It might end up being a three part series but that would require redoing the thumbnail of the first video. Also part 2 will have my subfunctions system of Ni which I've recently upgraded from that seen in most of the Model V videos [the new definition is shown in the SeTx video and maybe in the SeFx one]. In that definition I wrote about inarticuable [to coin a word] insights into personal/collective unconscious. And elaborated upon faith to "A sense of knowing something is true in the absence of evidence or reason which can be put into words." And a comment on 'insights': All JCFs can lead to a JCF-based insight which can cross into the sphere of thought for interpretation.

@SchizoidVision 2 жыл бұрын

@@BenVaserlan Great. Thanks for the heads up.

@BenVaserlan 2 жыл бұрын

@@SchizoidVision Ur welcome. :)

@akshan2310 2 жыл бұрын

Some notes (assuming I am Ni dom) 1. I think that outright dividing Ni into NFJ's "social role" and that of NTJs misses the point of defining Ni. In doing so, the metaphysical substance of Ni is overlooked in favor of its statistical manifestation. 2. In that sense, Ni is less about time and more about essence of things. That is, it seeks to wittle down things to a metaphysical level. Like, what is the actual ideal concept that any phenomena is inspired by. The simplest example I can think of is that of homeomorphism in topology. ( a correspondence between two figures or surfaces or other geometrical objects, defined by a one-to-one mapping that is continuous in both directions. ) The augry and clairvoyance that is experienced by an Ni dom is merely a result of intuitive understanding that the concrete object is an imperfect representation of it's ideal form. When you compare the incongruity between the ideal and real, it becomes quite easy to predict when the concrete would (or could) crash and burn. Thus, all the contingency planning is formed according to that perception. For Ni Fe users it comes out in form of emotional and ethical rhetorics. For Ni Te it comes out in form of theoretical intervention and contingency planning. 3. The imagery of Ni and Si differs in some key way - 3.1 - Evocativeness - Si Dom's imagery is much more detailed and it actually refers to some semblance of their past experience. Meanwhile Ni users (or atleast me) experiences imagery in a much more fuzzier manner. It's like comparing JMW Turner and Poussin. Ni images are singular and evoke a sense of purpose. Meanwhile Si imagery tend to reference/bemourn passage of time. 3.2 - Stability - Ni images are fleeting, like thoughts inside a dream (quoting Robert Plant). They shift and change and form until they reach their final conclusion. Even that conclusion is more of a temporary point of stasis - a limit to an individual's conceptual understanding. Si has very stable imagery in their head. It rarely changes. Instead of transforming or altering the essence of that image, they prefer to add more details to it.

@akshan2310 2 жыл бұрын

Tldr - Ni is better defined as a subjective notion of clarity rather than intuition of time. (Even though the concepts in their heads might not be as clear as they thought they were or match reality)

@BenVaserlan 2 жыл бұрын

What's your evidence for your definition?

@akshan2310 2 жыл бұрын

@@BenVaserlan It is based on what is missing. Take it or leave it.

@restoftheworld7200 Жыл бұрын

@@BenVaserlan I agree with the above commentor. Ni being a holistic "image" of sensory perception is the most faithful to the original Jungian definition. It would correspond to an iconic or indexical sign (mental representation) in Pierce's terms. Intuition of Time is something added by Socionics model A.

@restoftheworld7200 Жыл бұрын

I like your description. You are either an Ni-dom or someone who has read too much philosophy. Especially that part about the concrete world being an imperfect representation of the Ideal. I don't have Ni in my functional stack so I do not experience anything like 3.2. But I would agree that Ni at any one point in time appears to be an internally-generated superimposed snapshot of external things and that Si-doms tend to have a much better grasp of linear time and history. At the same time, I have difficulty explaining such concepts to Se-users because their imaginations consist solely of concrete objects. But because Se-users have Ni in their stack, their images of the external world can actually be quite fuzzy.

@FlagrantVagrant 2 жыл бұрын

I like Brandon Sanderson's books a lot. And I'm not sure enough which side of the rationals coin he's on to forcefully argue his type. But he most certainly should NOT be used as an example of high sensory Si prose. Absolute threadbare, dearth of sensory imaginative description. Also his stories stay in one place way too much compared to an adventurous, traveling, continent-spanning epic fantasy like Tolkien or Robert Jordan would write. He focuses so much more on the *development* of what's happening in orbit of a single locus than any kind of majestic wonder one might derive from changing scenery. He's built a *highly efficient process* of authorship that keeps him fresh by constantly shuffling his projects that I assume is to keep him from getting Winds of Winter stuck. His prose is lean and function first to the point of being dull and repetitive to read at times, "he shook his head". If it weren't for the powerful impact of his Sanderlanches, the imaginative magic systems, the promise of Cosmere integration, and transferred loyalty from The Wheel of Time, I probably wouldn't be reading him.

@BenVaserlan 2 жыл бұрын

I'll pass your comment on to Jonathan. :)

@jonathancampbell5231 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, even as I said that, I felt I was overstating his Si a bit (although it does get stronger in some of his later books, like The Stormlight Archive). I think INTP is still the best bet for him though.

@BenVaserlan 2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathancampbell5231 Not knowing anything about him, I will still speculate that INTPs can have an ISTJ mode when the INTP gets self-disciplined and overly methodical. It's their own method but overly methodical. Any evidence of a Beneficiary shift, Jonathan?

@jonathancampbell5231 2 жыл бұрын

@@BenVaserlan He's known as the Brandonbot because he produces so many books a year. Does that count?

@BenVaserlan 2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathancampbell5231 In deed it does. :)