Is Battery Lease Being Abandoned By Renault On All Zoe's

[@vandit83]

I’ve commented before on another video but my Zoe doesn’t have a lease and it’s not an i model. It’s never been written off and never been exported. However, my Zoe and my friends Zoe were sold at auction which stopped the lease. But get this... My friends Zoe has gotten a major battery fault and doesn’t pay a lease. Renault are fixing it under warranty. It’s a 2013 model. So literally everybody paying a lease is throwing money away!

[@RicardoPereira-mr4te]

I own a 2012 Renault kangoo ze with battery ownership. The battery is on 94% capacity after 70 000km. I guess no one is pointing out that this battery lease option is one of the reasons there's a huge bias against ev's and battery degradation. For me it makes no economic sense to lease the battery, specially if you're buying the car second hand. To keep a 100€ per month lease or buy a Clio and get 100€ per month gas on cheaper entry price it's a no brainer... For me this is a way Renault found to keep the money flowing in, since the maintenance of a ev is so much lower cost than a ice car...

[@NicolasRaimo]

Thats another way looking at it

[@alap9505]

I would always buy a Zoe with leased battery. I own a ZE40 Intense version in the Netherlands, first registered in 09/2017. I bought it as a used car in 2018 and payed 17800 Euro with a battery lease of 129 Euro per month, battery insurance included (I drive about 22000-23000 km per year). I could have bought the battery by paying 7000 Euro + VAT (+21% in the Netherlands = 8470 Euro). In my case, the main reasons for choosing the battery lease are: 1) 8470 Euro on top of the car's price is a big financial impact which I don't prefer to take in a single shot. I prefer to do other things with that money (paying for my daughter's college study, savings etc) . 2) Even if I'm paying 129 Euro/month and after some years I'll reach the same expense as if I'd have bought the battery in the first place, I'm not taking the battery cost as a financial punch. 3) I know the battery failure rates are low, but nothing is perfect in this world and the bad luck can hit anybody at some time. I take the battery lease option rather as an insurance. 4) If I'd be looking to buy a cheap 6-7 years old EV I'd definitely go searching for a car with a leased battery which is still under warranty for as long as the lease goes on. That will make my car easier to sell after years, same as you mentioned. 5) Like many others, I'm just a regular employee and believe that a car over 30000 Euro is not matching the common sense in respect with my earnings. In the Netherlands you cannot buy a well equipped Zoe like the Intense version under 30k Euro. Now I need to mention one thing. I might be in a particular lucky situation compared with some other EV owners as I'm not paying anything to charge my Zoe; I do it at work for free. So my car's only cost is the monthly battery lease (the EVs are the only cars with road-tax exemptions in NL). I can say that I'm paying that 8470 Euro for the battery in very small amounts over a long period of time. Rarely I plug in my Zoe at a public charger just for benefiting from getting a free parking spot ... for free, even if the car doesn't really need charging until the next day at work. When that happens, the additional cost in the respective month is something like 2 to 6 Euro.

[@pedrobotinasguedes]

In Portugal they still sell ZE50 on Battery lease option. The only thing is that if you male the calculations it doesn't have any monthly Gas to Baterry+Charging savings comparing to a 5L/100km diesel car, if you co sider the no mileage limit battery lease option. (124+32,5 vs 151 Euros)

[@NicolasRaimo]

Battery lease isn't a Gas fuel saving difference, its part of the car being rented therefore lower cost to buy

[@pedrobotinasguedes]

@@NicolasRaimo lower to buy what is already more expensive than an equivalent Clio. Event after you pay in lease the diference between Bat lease purchase and all included, you will continue paying the pease forevee.... You may say then, that the advantage is the Warranty.... But the bat lease contract is not forever, and owners don't have any garanties that renault in 5 to 8 Year will keep the option or even reasonable renting prices, which still today they are not. I would prefer the Bat lease option anyway, but the pricing is too High. In 7,5 years you have payed the batery for renault, and they will not reoease you from the Lease option, unless its on their own interest

[@ConnorWalsh_briz]

Fully agree Nick! Yes I've seen a first time buyer chose a battery-owned Leaf because they thought the Zoe battery lease would be more than their existing petrol bill (despite preferring the Zoe). But on a 22 kWh it's a small price to pay, especially as it includes battery breakdown too! On my mileage, it means I can use my 22 kWh for 8 years before reaching the cost difference to a ze 40, and I can't imagine 8 years into the future so… yeah, Lease good! Aside, someone plugged CanZE into mine yesterday and it turns out I'm at 98% soc on a 15 reg. Last week someone approached me at a charger asking about range-they're only getting 50 miles at 3.6 mkwh but it's battery-owned. I hope it's still in warranty!

[@NicolasRaimo]

The chap who approached you in a zoe? or a Leaf? We are the odd ones out preferring battery lease but my man logic tells me am best renting the bit that's expensive to replace and it makes it a great selling point when its 9 years old and people who didn't think about getting an EV go "what about the battery" oh sir its under warranty still.

[@ConnorWalsh_briz]

Nicolas Raimo yep agreed! The people who approached me were in a Zoe, 22 kWh but battery-owned, so maybe just still in warranty, though I didn’t think of that at the time. I missed out on warranty repair of the Satnav surround under the satanic screen, I just never thought about it. Ah well, live and learn, and I don’t ever need to worry about the battery! That said, Renault seem to be keeping the Zoe near the lower end of EV prices, even battery-owned, so that’s okay for the EV transition

[@Dominic712]

Nicolas Raimo I have a question We buy any car has offered me a good price for my battery lease Zoe. Do they have to sign the battery lease transfer form and is it correct they pay nothing for three months? Thanks

[@NicolasRaimo]

Webuyanycar don’t buy battery leased cars, ring me at work I’ll buy it, we don’t as dealers get any free months unless we purchase direct from RCI them selfs work for me is “Luigi motors”

[@Dominic712]

Nicolas Raimo hi nick I live in Northern Ireland , do you buy cars over here I’m trying to think why do valued my car in person and knowing it’s a battery lease car?

[@rossmc40]

Battery lease was a great entry to the EV world as it made them more affordable and gave peace of mind. In specific circumstances it worked really well (very low or very high mileage) as over 3/4 years it would work out about the same as buying the battery owned version but still had the fuel savings over ICE. If you keep it longer than that though you were just burning money. With the steady drop in prices of batteries it's becoming obsolete. For me Renault will have to allow buy out on older Zoe's soon. Just now they sell really well on the used market due to a lack of options. This is already slowly starting to change just with the sheer number of EV drivers upgrading to a model 3 (Leaf used prices have finally started to drop). In a couple of years who is going to want to buy an 8 year old 22kwh Zoe with a perpetual lease of £49 - £109? That same Zoe without a lease would be a brilliant value EV, huge potential as a cheap 2nd car to be used a local runabout. I don't buy into the your battery might fail reasoning. Of course it's possible in the same way an ICE engine could throw a timing belt and destroy itself but it's just not commonly happening. Even if it did fail or the range dropped to low for you when the car is 10+ years old, the battery could be converted to home usage or still sold for thousands of pounds to put as a deposit on a new EV. You're not likely to get thousands for a 10 year old ICE.

[@NicolasRaimo]

I'd argue if you keep it long enough the benefit of the warranty comes into play again

[@rossmc40]

@@NicolasRaimo Maybe but if you are to have any serious chance of needing it you would have to be doing hefty mileage each year. Unlimited mileage is £109 a year so over 10 years that's £13080. You could pay the extra to own the battery and replace it completely on the very slim chance it failed for that price. I suppose it's like any other warranty/insurance if you want peace of mind at a price you take it. If you would rather save the money an accept the chance of a repair bill in the future you don't. My main concern though would still be in a few years you will find it exceptionally difficult to sell when there is a decent amount of choice available in the 2nd hand market (and I say that as someone who sold a lease Zoe recently with little problem due to the current lack of options on the used market)

[@pedrobotinasguedes]

Great insight!

[@alap9505]

@@rossmc40 I respect your opinion and think that you are right in most aspects. One of the main differences is that many people buy the car through a lease (thus paying interest) and not paying full cash as I did. As the 129 € monthly battery lease is the only expense with the in my particular case, I considered OK for me. I don't say it's the best way for everybody, because it isn't.

[@JonathanPorterfield]

Nick the 1st Japanese leaf where NOT flex leased batteries! Only the UK built Leaf called, visia, acenta ,tekna from may 2013 had the 'option' of a leased battery called 'flex' It was not very popular, so they dropped it around 2016 onwards.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Cheers John my leaf knowledge bows to you

[@robsmith1a]

I bought the battery when I bought my Zoe ZE40 and don't regret it one bit. I have had the car 33 months now and it would have cost me £79 per month had I leased the battery which would have been over £2600 by now. My car certainty hasn't depreciated £2600 more than the battery lease model over that time. I also still have warranty on the battery pack until March 2025.

[@alymorning2961]

We all want to know how much you paid for the battery 🤔

[@tusdardcart]

@@alymorning2961 He bought a battery owned "i" model not one with a battery lease.

[@alymorning2961]

@@tusdardcart oh yeah 🧐

[@robsmith1a]

@@alymorning2961 I bought my Zoe in March 2017 and paid £17800 for it (metallic black paint option £495 included). I haggled quite hard and it was £6200 off list price. I think if I had gone for battery rental it would have been around £5K less (officially the battery purchase price was £5600). Since then demand for EVs has increased and I am not sure those kind of discounts are possible now.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Now both battery lease renault zoe's and battery owned zoe's have increased infact a 19 plate zoe with some mileage will sell for around £2000 more than it sold for NEW this applies to a battery lease model but even battery owned increased by around £1000

[@DogsBAwesome]

As hinted by a fully charged video Renault have their eye on leased batteries for the home backup market on zoes being scrapped. As you can already get a backup battery based on old zoe batteries I doubt they will give up on this unless the price was high to buy.

[@NicolasRaimo]

V2G coming to zoe very soon ;)

[@A2an]

This is not entirely correct, Renault first electric car was a Renault Clio Electrique and as I remember it was born in 1994 as the first Clio, this car was made bye Renault, Citroen, Peugeot and Saft. Saft was the problem, they were the battery designer and supplier which were a Nickel Cadmium Battery with water cooling (range 80 Km) within a very short time 2000 - 15000 Km the battery shorted out also called Black Spot. I have personally collected 3 Renault Clio Electrique from Germany (to rebuild first with lead acid battery, range 50 Km on a very very very good day, today it is wit litium battery, ranch 200 Km) So I believe when Renault tried again with an electric car they decide to rent the battery out. To be remembered the Renault Clio Electrique car was replaced with a fuel car. The reason they rented out the battery is because when they first came with Renault fluence, there was not much opportunity to charge your car in many cities. That's why they made a battery swap (in 5 min, if there was anyone at work) called Better Place, imagine that you have a brand new battery that you bought and paid for and you drive to Better Place and get the battery changed to a bad battery, ouch ! They went bankrupt and a number of problems followed.

[@rafbarkway5280]

Wait...Manufacturers offering 8 year waranty including battery, Renault want to rent battery at 60 pounds a month... 8 years at 60 a month is 5760 pounds so you buy the battery anyway? AND have a big limit on milage per year? Sounds mad to me...

[@21bCreations]

Battery lease is still available on the Zoe in Switzerland and France.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Yep i believe the French where trying to force the UK to carry on with it

[@ricardogomes4044]

You can buy a new Zoe Bose Edition ZE40 including the battery for 24'500 CHF in Switzerland, so why pay 35'000 to buy one from a Renault dealer + battery lease?

[@FFVoyager]

For me the problem with a separate battery lease was always the cost. When I first looked at the Zoe that was the only option and even the salesman confused himself trying to explain the nuances of leasing a car over a fixed period priced by mileage per year and then a battery that had DIFFERENT mileage rates! (I don't remember the details now, but it was something like 8000 or 12000 miles pa for the car and the battery was either 7500 or 10000 miles. I just thought that was nonsense that was designed to get customers to sign up for a scheme that was encouraging them to part with more money than they needed to and gave up on the Zoe. Looking at my old MOT's my annual mileage has varied from between 4000 and 12000 miles a year over the past 6 years. My usage pattern is not a simple daily commute plus a bit at weekends. I might not use the car for a couple of weeks and then drive a 300 mile week for a month. Or I might not. If I could llease a battery by mileage at whatever pence per mile it might make sense, but I can't and leasing looks a stupid way to try to make cars look 'cheaper' as the running costs (which are often neglected by fossil fuel owners) have to be included in the cost of ownership.

[@dougowt]

FFVoyager If you aren’t sure of your mileage per annum. You could opt for say the 4,500 miles option and change it, if/when you do more. It’s not cast in stone and the over mileage penalties on the battery lease are not excessive. Admittedly it’s not the most straightforward way of doing things, but you can make it work to your advantage. But it all depends on our individual circumstances. I thought I would keep under 1,000 miles a month when I got the Zoe but I’m doing up to 1,500 and I’m actually saving more the more miles I do.

[@ricardogomes4044]

Imported and NEW Renault Zoe ZE40 Bose Edition (the best Edition) including battery costs in Switzerland 24'500 CHF

[@nigelweir3852]

5 years old zoe owner with battery lease , got 3 years lease of battery free, pay 50 pounds per month for battery , 7500 miles per year , battery performance still good , never had a problem . Cost so far 1200 pounds , savings on free electricity 4000+ pounds and still getting free electricity . Home electricity obviously cheap , cheaper as have solar . Don’t buy out the the lease as older more likely to go wrong , upgrade to 41 kw not sensible , and buying it would be silly in my case if offered. Might just buy an MG

[@jeremylister89]

I thought up to 7500 miles per year means £69 a month. How'd you get it for £50 a month?

[@tusdardcart]

@@jeremylister89 Battery lease costs were different in the early days of the Zoe. Some were ridiculously cheap compared with nowadays.

[@jeremylister89]

@@tusdardcart Mmmm....

[@NicolasRaimo]

They also get to renew on same terms ;)

[@jeremylister89]

@@NicolasRaimo Time for James May impersonation...' Oh c**k'

[@Bin216]

One dealer I spoke to said it was also down to the large difference in the PCP residual value of battery owned being much higher than battery leased. When the PCP comes to an end, a higher residual value makes it easier for the dealer to sell a new car rather than the customer just financing the residual. Interestingly the little promotional material they had (the fold out booklet with Cloe information on the other side), did have a battery leased prices on.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Battery lease easier to sell than battery owned they sell 3 times faster, howver they all sell faster than ICE

[@malcolmmiddleton5883]

Auto Express have confirmed the Zoe RS very excited will be ordering it very soon!!!!!! :))))))

[@Smothtiger]

The battery lease makes sense for me. At the time of purchase I looked at what value Renault placed on the battery. This being some 75 000 SEK in Sweden at the time of car purchase in 2016. With a monthly lease at 799 SEK I've reached that number in just shy under of 8 years. Personally, I'll keep the car past that age as the lease acts as it's own insurance that would something ever happen to it, as it likely will at some point, there will be little I need to handle with myself. The lease also made the initial purchase of the Zoe more lighter for someone that had a low income and still do to some extent. Sure would it be nice not to pay this after my credit purchase is over on the car by then but it's still a low enough sum on it's own.

[@kiae-nirodiaries1279]

You make a good case for battery lease Nick but it is interesting that outside of Renault and initially Nissan, no other company has offered it. This may be something to do with the higher expectations around batteries using an active TMS. Every week there is more news on the blogosphere of Tesla owners reaching phenomenal mileages on their original batteries with SOC still in the 90% plus range... and we should expect same from Hyundai, Kia and others using active TMS. A few weeks ago I had a recall on my e-Niro to replace the pump regulating the heating/cooling on the TMS. I asked more questions in my best ‘Franglais’ and it turns out this was a precautionary measure following an alert from the supplier and only affected cars made during a two week period last December (2018). I hope that when my 7 year warranty runs out in 2026 an aftermarket would have emerged and the much promised ‘second life’ demand for grid backup will mean I will get something back on my battery in lieu of a new one should its SOC drop below the range I need.

[@audioorigami]

ze41 battery cost me approx £5.5k to buy it out right...and it still has the 8 year warranty on battery

[@NicolasRaimo]

I mentioned the 8 year warranty in video my point is lease battery cars at 9/10/11 years will then be better buys

[@RWBHere]

You're correct, I think, Nick. Here's why: 1) Battery lease is something of a cash cow for Renault, now that they know how long the batteries are lasting. 2) Cars are also written off in accidents, or stolen, and therefore lost, so in those cases, the insurance pays Renault for the lost battery, and they will never need to replace the battery under warranty. 3) We'd probably buy a used 40kWh Zöe, and I would feel happy. to 'defer' some of the purchase price of, say, a 6 year old vehicle, by having a battery lease whilst having the 'insurance policy' it confers on the battery. You pay the equivalent price for a new battery every 4 years or so, but with inflation, that fixed price becomes less of a burden each year. 4) The alternative would be to pay more for a lease-free car, and then try to purchase battery insurance privately. Good luck with finding that at a price which is lower than the monthly lease cost! 5) With an older 22kWh Zöe, I would definitely opt for one with a battery lease. The cell chemistry is less well developed, and they’re usually older. For the record, how much are 40kWh Zöe's selling for with and without battery lease? Thanks.

[@boorhaave5880]

Zoes will be discontinued in 2024, will Renault now have a way of getting out of replacing failing batteries? They could simply claim that they don't have any replacements because they aren't made anymore

[@alliemccullen4681]

Thank you. Its true worth leasing the battey. Other thing, Do you know if sound sytem(radio, sensors beap, satnav audio) are all of these connected to TomTom? I cannot make a sound test at all..any radio, satnav nor sensors sounds. But my camera work well w/ rev and maps. What could be failing?

[@aljesus11]

I used to think that battery lease was a good deal, so I bought a Renault Fluence with battery lease (the only option available), eight years ago. Unfortunately Renault didn't keep their part of the deal. Three months ago Renault measured 66% of the battery's original capacity but didn't replace it because they ran out of that model. This situation is very common in Portugal and Renault, in spite of this situation, still charge the same monthly fee: €112.

[@NicolasRaimo]

The lease states the pack will be repaired or replaced to the value of 75% they don’t say a new car, try another Renault dealer and demand your pack in repaired on the condition in the lease

[@dougowt]

I’m with you in the majority of cases for keeping the battery lease. But I can’t see any justification for Renault keeping the battery lease on the Twizzy at a higher cost than the Kangoo. It has put me off getting a Twizzy in the past. The 22kWh Zoe is a great introduction to EV driving and as they get older, the biggest concern is covered. Try getting a warranty like that on an older ICE car or van.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Twizzy for me i agree there should be an option to buy a twizy new without a battery lease, not giving someone the option at all means unlike the zoe i can't defend the battery lease by saying you have the option to buy without. Thank you for your amazing support and hope you enjoy getting early access to videos now :)

[@dougowt]

Nicolas Raimo Yes thanks. All works well on Patreon now. Regarding the Twizzy, I’m disappointed that Renault have not improved the range or charging options for the Twizzy since its introduction. But having said that, it’s still an attractive option for local journeys. The power box would be first on the shopping list and a heated jacket!

[@wobby1516]

Leasing certainly reduces the purchase price of a car and to that end make the initial purchase of the car easier. However Renault don’t lease to loose money and now with 8 year warranty on batteries unless money is really tight I can’t see any benefits. On older cars whilst some will like the peace of mind of not owning the battery I still believe in the long run buying outright is the better option. This reminds me of years ago when people rented a TV on the false premise that they were unreliable they weren’t.. Tesla have shown that properly managed battery management system’s mean a very long life for batteries, that then go on to be used for home storage. To my knowledge the only company to have had real battery problems was the early leafs but even that seems to have been put to bed. As Nicholas said in his vlog he doesn’t know of any battery failures on the Zoe and he should know.

[@SteveJulien]

Great video, thanks!

[@NicolasRaimo]

Cheers Steve

[@steliane]

Is good to lease the battery unless you're driving 20k miles/year...

[@matthewbenton1630]

The thing the puts me off getting a 22kw Zoe with battery lease is the unknown of lease price rises. Am I right in thinking the

[@jeremylister89]

The lease cost is too heavily biased. For me it would be £70 a month (nearly £7000 over 8 years) and I presume this could be increased. If it were £25 a month that would work (after very careful calculations). It's not just about comparing lease vs non lease (all secondhand). It's about comparing your existing cost base vs EV options. I'm one of the worst people to try convert. 12 year old diesel £30 tax, 58mpg, >650 mile range, approaching 200,000 miles, do my own servicing, 7k a year. It cost me £3500 11 years ago, now worth £150. My existing cost base is tiny. Total amortised running and service cost is less than £17 a week. Lease alone exceeds this. EVs are all too expensive dude (even before you get to the other issues). Solution..? Well I just wish the original Ampera still existed and was further developed.. Best of both worlds. Also want better battery guarantee and cost effective replacement. Modular system would be good..but that's never going to happen. Every car company want to do their own thing.

[@mtumasz]

Jeremy Lister original Amperas are still a great option but in EU they hold value too well for my pocket

[@jeremylister89]

@@mtumasz agree, most for sale are near to 100k miles

[@NicolasRaimo]

Your also assuming the only reason people buy an EV is due to running costs

[@jeremylister89]

@@NicolasRaimo Fair comment as my post is about the cost aspects from my point of view, which will be shared by others. My diesel is noisy and dirty and I'd like to go cleaner. But household budgets are important. I expect gov policies will be to make life more difficult cost wise and baning me and people like me driving in some cities. So be it, we'll see what the glorious blonde one does.

[@h0il0i]

It is still possible to buy the ZE50 with Battery Lease in Switzerland it starts at CHF 31’200. Check renault.ch Also, it is possible to buy out the battery lease on older Zoes here in Switzerland. The owner has to call RCI for a quote. The price depends on three factors: Mileage, Age and SOH.

[@NicolasRaimo]

want to let us know some rough costs based on them 3 factors?

[@h0il0i]

Nicolas Raimo Just checked my old emails. When I was looking to buy a Zoe in July 2019 I asked many car dealers who were selling Zoe‘s what would be the price to buy out the battery. Many of them said it’s not possible so I had to insist that they ask RCI which most of them did. The price varied from about 3000 to 9000 CHF. Unfortunately the links to the „online offers“ do not work anymore because the cars have been sold in the meantime. So I cannot check which battery price was for which car. I would say I got about 6-7 offers to buy out the battery for different cars. I didn’t want to have the battery lease because the Zoe is only used very rarely for about 20km. Didn’t want to have a fixed payment for that. We ended up buying a 2016 Zoe R240 Life with 16k km for 12k CHF including battery. Our other car is a TM3 btw. :)

[@waynehobbs5175]

How much is the lease because that is relevant but ignored in your article. If the battery lease is say around $20 per month to lease it because over 8 years that is about $8000 over 16 years double just keep the car until it inevitably craps its battery get a new battery and sell it for top dollar. As lithium ion technology is getting cheaper by the year it is already estimated that a 50kwh pack will cost $10k maximum by 2014. A tiny car if it was ice but Zoe sized should only cost $15000 without a battery as a new Mitsubishi ice car costs that including the engine.

[@rubendewulf]

I got a b-lease twizy/ b-lease zoe. My twizy is a 2016/dec model , and in 2019/jan the batt was at 72% , so glad i use the lease... and funny thing is, rci even wants me to buy it :) no probs they say ;) for the zoe its a different story... Nice vid as always

[@NicolasRaimo]

Whats the failure replacement rate on twizy?

[@rubendewulf]

@@NicolasRaimo I have had mine for almost 2 years and the battery has already been replaced, so those who bought the battery have a small problem I think ... under 75% they give you a refurb battery. with the twizy, leasing is the only option I think.

[@pirpy2]

I have buy out my battery lease on 18 july this year and it is still possible today in Slovenia.

[@NicolasRaimo]

How much is it in Slovenia?

[@pirpy2]

i have upgraded my battery on december 2017 from 22 to 40 kWh , that cost me 3500 € and then 18 month later the buy out price was 6350€ .

[@sonecaii8306]

Not in Portugal, still available for lease for 75€ plus taxes

[@NicolasRaimo]

is that same price for all mileage?

[@sonecaii8306]

@@NicolasRaimo No, it starts at 74€ with taxes ( correcting above information ) for 7500 km's per year. 0.05€ for extra km's ( www.renault.pt/veiculos-eletricos/novo-zoe/autonomia-carregamento.html ).

[@Dominic712]

Battery lease makes selling your Zoe so much harder , I’ve had my car valued in person by we buy any car at £5660 but didn’t mention anything about the lease so I’d likely be stuck with it

[@NicolasRaimo]

Ring me ill buy your battery lease instantly. SO will every other EV dealer we sell battery lease in about 7 days and non battery lease take 30 days to sell

[@Dominic712]

Nicolas Raimo - what’s your number nick ? I live in NI but I’m sure transport can be arranged

[@NicolasRaimo]

luigimotors.com

[@ttrjw]

Nick, the problem with a battery lease can be described this way: "We cremated our uncle last week. We couldn't afford to buy him a funeral suit, so we rented one..."

[@gene8194]

I don't think battery leasing make sense with an older car. The lease almost equal to the savings on the fuel. It is much better to buy an i-miev or similar, what has no lease. Here in Denmark you are almost not able to sell any Renault with battery leasing. Tons of Fluance, Zoe and cangoo or how is it called is getting stucked on the market. It's lot easier to sell any other car. So here battery leasing is a huge fail.

[@deanfielding4411]

György Névery iMev is a bit rubbish compared with the Zoe though.

[@gene8194]

@@deanfielding4411 true, but half price. In case you want better quality and no battery lease then the old leaf would be my choice. It even has fast charging. So Zoe is a very nice car, but not having proper charging and battery lease makes it hard to choose.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Leaf doesn't have "faster charging" it has chademo a Q motor zoe charges at 43kw, however most my charging is done at home where the zoe is much faster than the leaf 3.3kw charger

[@gene8194]

@@NicolasRaimo completely agree, though there are 2 key points. First 100 pounds for renting the battery is a lot of money when it comes to recharging your car. That is at least half of the savings what you can achieve monthly, so if you can buy a car without battery leasing for the same price you would save insane amount of money. Secondly, not all of the zoes has 40 kwh charging capability plus chademo is a lot more easy to find than 40kw AC chargers. For holme charging is enough the 3kw harging over night. In case you want to travel the leaf is still a lot more convenient than the Zoe because of the chademo. So it is correct what you write but from practicality point the Zoe is a bit behind the leaf and for those who dont mind the simplicity of an i-miev.

[@mtumasz]

Battery lease - worst idea ever! It keeps a lot of people off even test driving the Zoe, myself included. Getting financing for the car is a hussle in itself. NOBODY wants a double dose of that, especially if benefits are tiny.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Why not just look at a non battery lease "i" model? I can't currently buy enough battery lease models to keep up with demand of people buying them so it cant put many off. I also have a finance company happy to lend on them.

[@mtumasz]

Thnx 4 replying - a rare case on YT! U R right! I’m currently looking at i3s and 250e’s as range less of an issue, and quality is. Nice to hear you can arrange the battery lease in a hussle-free way in UK. It’s not that easy in Poland

[@NicolasRaimo]

Always reply to everyone who takes the time to leave a comment on all my video's i might not get round to everyone straight away but I will reply in the end. Please click subscribe, review on the Zoe, and I3 on my channel page

[@deanfielding4411]

Totally dissagree. Not in my experience.

[@gustavopedrosa81]

In Portugal there still have batery lease

[@NicolasRaimo]

Good to hear! You buying new ZE50?

[@gustavopedrosa81]

@@NicolasRaimo not yet

[@bellshooter]

Battery lease is no longer a needed model. Why would anyone spend £50+ pounds a month on a battery lease when the difference in primary cost is so little?

[@NicolasRaimo]

initial price to buy, 2nd BL much more affordable then a battery owned 2nd

[@stephenclay6852]

I don’t agree with your thoughts on battery lease. The reason why Renault won’t sell you the lease is as you said they are making a lot of money out of it. If the battery was unreliable they would because it would be costing them to much money.

[@NicolasRaimo]

AM confused it looks like you do agree with me?

[@stephenclay6852]

In my opinion the only two reasons why you would lease are 1 to bring down the purchase price of the car. And 2nd if you keep the car a longtime. But the drawback with the second option is after a certain number of years you could buy a new one if you put the cost of lease money to one side for 8 years so that if the battery dies after the warranty period you would have the money to replace it. Plus owning both the car and battery in my opinion would make it easier to sell .when you come to change it. If you sell before the 8 year warranty option 2 goes out the window because of corse it’s under warranty and they would have to replace or repair wether it’s leased or not.

[@wobby1516]

I would never lease with an 8 year warranty, why on earth would I. Batteries, with the exception of the first Leafs, have prove very reliable and if they do degrade after 8 years who cares the car at that age won’t be worth a lot.. More to the point your basing things on current prices but 8 years down the road I’ll lay money there’ll be company’s that specialised in battery replacement in the same way that there used to be company’s that specialised in engine and gearbox rebuilds. I also think that in eight years battery technology will have moved on light years and costs will have come down, after all in the last 8 year prices have halved. How easy is it to sell an eight year old car? Then how easy is it to sell the same car and have to take on the battery lease? I certainly wouldn’t.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Colin think you got wires crossed if the battery is leased the warranty is FOREVER, if its purchased outright as in no battery lease then warranty is 8 years. First gen renault zoes are 2013 so there coming up to 8 years and selling like hot cakes still.

[@wobby1516]

Nicolas Raimo No crossed wires LOL. what I was trying to say was who would buy an 6-8 year old car if they were tied to a lease. I realise the battery would be covered by the lease warranty but as you said very few have ever been changed, me thinks that says it all. What would the difference be between lease or buy the battery on an 8 year old car. Your words “ all the Renaults I know have 90% battery state of health.” So why would one worry about battery failure. Colin.

[@deanfielding4411]

Nicolas Raimo I disagree, it is reassuring for the people buying an 8 year old EV and also they’re still about 5k cheaper than a battery owned version even at 2nd hand values. I’d never leased anything before in my life till I got my first Zoe, but found it works really well.

[@deanfielding4411]

Colin. 1 The people who bought my first Zoe found it really reassuring. You have to remember most people are still skeptical about EVs when they’re buying one

[@wobby1516]

Dean Fielding Seems I stand corrected, if as you say more people will buy if they don’t have to worry about the battery then that’s a good thing, I’m all for electric cars. On a separate note I’m also for more government grants to get more electric cars and charging infrastructure. A friend of mine over on holiday from Ireland Pooh-poohed my car! until he drove it , he’s just gone home to order one for himself. What happens when you want to scrap or just get rid of the car, there must come a time when it’s not worth much but your still stuck with the battery lease.

[@Christer885]

👍

[@timaustin2000]

I don't know how to tell you but there's a car crashed into your pavement.

[@NicolasRaimo]

lol what?

[@wxxr9095]

NEVER lease an EV see the movie Who Killed the Electric car

[@NicolasRaimo]

slightly different type of lease and that won't happen again EV's are here now

[@Sofala]

@@NicolasRaimo They are here but in the UK they are still only 1% of new registrations for 2019 and that includes hybrids and plugins. They are still a niche product.

[@stephenclay6852]

I don’t agree with your thoughts on battery lease. The reason why Renault won’t sell you the lease is as you said they are making a lot of money out of it. If the battery was unreliable they would because it would be costing them to much money.

[@tusdardcart]

Isn't that exactly what he said? Nissan did it because they could see that the batteries would become a warranty issue for them. Renault won't because they are making a lot of money from it with minimal warranty issues.

[@NicolasRaimo]

Glad am not only one confused