Nina Kollars - Confessions of an Nespresso Money Mule - DEF CON 27 Conference

[@JRJ360]

This is why I love DEFCON: intellectual curiosity, figuring out why something happens instead of accepting it and moving on.

[@JohnDoe-sp3dc]

More like fuck this fed for ruining a good deal on coffee. I could not give less of a fuck that a giant multi million dollar company is losing money from rebounding fraudulent purchases.

[@liucyrus22]

john doe well to me the card holder might losing as they might not even be aware of the scam/ don’t know how to deal with it. Besides, banks can also be dickheads in holding the cardholder somehow responsible.

[@JRJ360]

There are multiple losers here, it's not victimless. As liucyrus22 mentions, cardholders often don't notice the chargers (hence targeting the elderly because the cards last longer) so they are paying for the cheap coffee. Even when noticed, the company winds up getting chargebacks and losing money. Theft is theft.

[@KjetilSeimHaugen]

@Eric McManus Pssst, all the stuff got auctioned off at Defcon, she did not keep it. Proceeds went to charity.

[@maxk4324]

@Eric McManus ypu watched the whole video right? Did you not see the part where she auctioned it all. off? Also she submitted sll her findings, including a complete expense sheet with the accounts she used for the purchases, to the FBI. There's *literally* nothing more she could have done as a civilian.

[@xx1norm1xx]

I just clicked to find out what an nespresso money mule is...

[@Lewis82100]

and it blew your mind.

[@themodfather9382]

Turns out it's just someone with an eBay account

[@zapfanzapfan]

I thought it would be about someone smuggling something more potent than coffee.

[@cutterhead13]

This is click bate sponsored content fed doxing right there .

[@Toshinben]

I put this video off for weeks because the phrase 'an Nespresso money mule' irritated me that much.

[@dirtyspah]

Not what I expected from a DEFCON talk, but really interesting anyway! Speaker was great.

[@inthefade]

Yeah she's really charismatic. It is also a very interesting scheme.

[@thtrnerd221]

I thought that this was a great talk. She wanted to stop scammers.

[@charstringetje]

@@thtrnerd221 I think she lost a lot of sleep over this...

[@The_Cakeminator]

@@charstringetje With that much coffee in her system she should have.

[@stacksmasher]

Fraud is fraud.... it works with cars just as good as coffee makers ; )

[@chrisspicer4319]

This happened to me, I ordered a Russian bride and receive 2 Brides,a 73 Lada and a RPG Launcher

[@fetB]

so you're the one that ruined it for the rest of us.

[@Settings404]

Hey, I think they sent you my wife! Please send back to me

[@Mateo-et3wl]

The backwards language detection game is real. I was an ESL instructor for ten years and could guess native language based on handwriting and grammar mistakes

[@isettech]

Don't forget to paste the text of the email into google search. Anyone else with cancellations from them may already reported and you can collaborate findings. Possibly get IP addresses, etc.

[@zknarc]

@@isettech Exactly what I was thinking

[@fauxshizl]

I recall a story of a Russian girl who often asked for "for of X" and kept being baffled when she was offered 4 of the thing.

[@jurriaandejongh8677]

I have no idea how I ended up here, but this was very interesting and I'm glad I hung around till the end.

[@rawveganfruitarian7290]

Me too.

[@ErinHopkinsFilm]

Really interesting about what we consider "victimless" fraud, this was a really great talk

[@thenear1send]

Very interesting story because I had a very similar experience to her. I built a new PC back in 2012 and was on a super tight budget, so I went overboard on bargain hunting, researching benchmarks, etc. I ordered about half of the parts used or new off of ebay. When filtering by price, you always find suspicious PC parts on eBay with cheap prices too good to be true. When I received my GPU, I noticed two identical units had been shipped. I thought the vendor would have been petrified that they shipped a unit to the wrong destination, but they didn't care. The vendors page ultimately disappeared and I realized I was probably the recipient of goods purchased by a credit card scam identical to the scam described in this video here. I felt really bad but had no idea what to do about it. All I can say today is that I rocked those graphics cards in crossfire configuration and thought my budget PC build was the most badass system for the dollar.

[@cactustactics]

The "guess the writer's first language by their errors" idea is definitely a thing, if you're interested there's a book by Michael Swan called "Learner English: A Teacher's Guide to Interference and Other Problems" that covers some common patterns you see in English learners coming from various groups of first languages Basically the ways you express ideas in one language don't always map to others, so you can end up imposing certain conventions that stand out as wrong or unusual in the target language. Like as an example, in English we use pronouns all the time because "correct English" needs a subject for every verb, but in Spanish they're often omitted because the subject is wrapped into the verb conjugation, and Japanese is so contextual it's common to just have a plain verb because the subject is understood, so it's normal to leave most stuff unsaid If you're not aware of those natural differences in expressing the same idea, you end up doing what feels normal but sounds very specifically weird in those other languages. A tool could catalogue those patterns (like the book does) and then identify which ones are present in a piece of text, to try and narrow down which first language is probably producing them all. Of course a huge chunk of the world's population has more than one first language... 😏

[@venmita]

That's pretty neat. And definitely an intuitive thing, which makes me wonder if polyglots would be able to determine a writers origin based on grammar mistakes. I'm sure the panel speaker would be interested in the book you mentioned. Perhaps you could tweet at her? @NianaSavage

[@Trazynn]

This was easily the most interesting point of her talk (the rest was interesting as well, not trying to bash her). An algorithm that can figure out the native speaker's origin based on their grammar mistakes seems like something that's very feasible to create now that AI language has improved so much. At least it should be able to narrow it down to language families. And this helps not just with detective work but English lessons themselves would improve if they pre-empted the common mistakes speakers of a certain language make when trying to learn English.

[@mrmidnight32]

cactustactics it’s clearly a google translation flop. They spoke their language and let google do the rest

[@ryuuji159]

Interesting, the part where you mention that english uses pronouns all the time and other languages don't, it explains why as spanish speaker is weird refering to the pronoun so often when I write english

[@kcdiazWTV]

@@Trazynn I agree. I am not a native English speaker and writer, and I find myself making the same grammatical error repeatedly when composing emails and posting comments online. And I've noticed that I make these mistakes because I am visualizing the English words in my head as how I would visualize my native language when I speak in it. I hope that made sense. 😂

[@0xfifteenfifteenfifteen]

Just realized I was a mule once. Ordered an air fryer, came straight from the company I paid half price

[@anon2234]

@@alexwhiteman2628 or a rogue agent in the company intentionally selling product they have access to illegally.

[@maxk4324]

@@alexwhiteman2628 if it was a subsidiary then the shipping label would have listed the sender as the subsidiary, not the parent company.

[@Fridelain]

It's a convection oven.

[@dj1NM3]

It could also have been last year's model (or one just about to be replaced in their product line-up) and they were being sold at a discount to clear warehouse space, using eBay so that it doesn't seem like they're basically dumping them onto the market.

[@KenDanieli]

Drop shipping doesn't necessarily mean it was fraud. The person you ordered it from may have had a coupon or promo offer that allowed them to pay less for the item than you did. They could have had access to wholesale pricing.

[@IMWATCHING501]

Hey, why you trying to ruin Ebay's bread and butter... They thrive on scams.

[@Seth9809]

Huh, Amazon has a problem where people order computers, say you forgot parts, and ship back the computer with parts missing, then rate you 1 star.

[@ahmadramzy2716]

@@Seth9809 wow, first time i've heard about this, i'm not trolling i swear, but i thought a company the size of amazon would have something in place to stop something like this, they're not a bedding website after all.

[@NicholasLittlejohn]

AWS also hosts most modern web scams.

[@jerrickmarques8777]

they probably got away with it as there's no way to prove that they are stolen unless reported(but i guess she did report them, but is it even worth the trouble to them to criminally charge random internationals?) they probably backed off because either they temporarily ran out of stolen cards or they noticed that they kept selling it to the same address which would have made nespresso look into her, thus her leading them to ebay and then possibly getting caught. They've probably moved on to other products or different kinds of scams

[@alexcarter8807]

@@Seth9809 Amazon is actually hinkier than Ebay. Scary.

[@__hetz]

"...but my ethics were restored." Well, aside from supporting Nestle. 😕

[@_BangDroid_]

RIght. Those pods are so dodgy, not only financially uneconomical, but extraordinarily bad for the environment

[@Nixo66]

@@_BangDroid_ right?

[@_BangDroid_]

Only some pods are recyclable and Nespresso wants club membership to their recycling program. Compostable would be better, though a technical challenge. Less energy due to smaller quantity. Heating the water remains the biggest power consumption. Specific heat capacity of water remains 4.187 J/g

[@JeremyLevi]

@@happyfase Its not the pods that are the problem. It's all the other shady stuff that Nestle does, like refusing to reduce pumping for their bottled water operation in California in the middle of a drought, despite the fact that they only pay a few hundred dollars per million gallons for the water rights. Or refusing to commit to ethical sourcing for the palm oil that they use to make all their chocolate.

[@kaeleklund6728]

@@JeremyLevi Chocolate produced through slave labor is also probably worth mentioning.

[@jimviau327]

18:15 - Did you try contacting Visa or MC ? I would bet they'd get VERY interested in your investigation. Good job lady. I admire your level of ethic. If we were all like you this world wouldn't be in this mess.

[@RFC3514]

We'd all be sweating caffeine from our eyeballs, though.

[@CaptainComatose]

My credit card once got charged for something I did not buy and what was sent to someone else.I was contacted by my bank, got my money back and asked if they investigate it. As far as I can remember they told me that they won't.Pretty sure this got handled by the insurance and wasn't worth the effort to hunt down the frauds.

[@h3xag0nal]

If you care about ethics, you don't buy disposable aluminum coffee pods.

[@Brees1986]

I’ve contacted them before about fraudulent activity on eBay. Specifically, I was selling Apple TV a few years ago. I would get people with new accounts buying the product and shipping to shady strip mall addresses or drop shippers. A few weeks later I would get PayPal notices that the card used was stolen and I had to prove that I shipped the item. I would include the tracking ID number and the case would be closed and I could keep my money. I started experiencing almost a 50% fraud rate in selling these devices. I contacted EBay and PayPal and they didn’t care. I actually contacted the CC company a few times and they didn’t care either. One person told me if the stolen amount wasn’t more than $10,000 it wasn’t worth their time.

[@ShadowZero27]

good idea

[@TheBouregard]

As someone working in fraud detection, it's basically not something customer service is supposed to handle in most companies and the money mule has any influence on. In most cases the company will a at some point notice a large amount of credit card chargebacks and then either increase security measures to prevent this (pretty good options there, but they will likely block some perfectly legal purchases too) or adjust their pricing to account for loses. Given that Nespresso capsules and some machines are sold at a massive markup they'll likely choose or already have chosen that option.

[@wildonemeister]

Machines in such cases are often sold at zero profit or even loss. It's like printers - buy a cheap printer and then buy cartridges that they have huge margins on.

[@APsupportsTerrorism]

I suspect Nespresso is involved with reporting the Ebay accounts. Buyers certainly aren't going to report them. Ebay seller has no reason to abandon an account each time a stolen card stops working... the cards are in no way connected to Ebay, they would just switch cards and keep rolling. Nespresso probably has a handful of people engaged in brand protection, reporting suspect sellers on Ebay. And thus why the accounts get banned in about 2 weeks. In this endeavor, Nespresso also doesn't particularly care if they accidentally target a legitimate account. It has no effect on their bottom line.

[@gplusgplus2286]

Nespresso is evil. And tastes like shit.

[@Kylefassbinderful]

This is one of those great videos that barely caught my eye and had no relation to any videos I regularly watch. It was amazing.

[@theholk]

About "victimless": Even if it is NOT the elderly, and people just "charge back" the fraudulent charge, that is roled into the REGULAR price as "cost of doing business". This type of fraud is completely rampant in digital transferable goods like game keys, there often the actual vendor (in this case nespresso) can really get into trouble due to chargeback fees.

[@manuelsoares4343]

It was so rampant wot csgo in game keys that valve the game publisher made them be account locked

[@theholk]

What do you mean "moralizing"? The fact of the matter is that in the Video game context the only thing the companies can do is to not process credit cards at all, or with a delay (that customers don't appreciate), or slam the "breakage" on the price for valid customers. At the core it is a security issue with credit cards, which the banks don't want to fix (as they just relegate the cost onto the vendors) nor the card holder (because they can initiate chargebacks relatively easy)

[@garaldtao1801]

The genius is not that Nina had figured it out but rather the loop holes that are being exploited to attack a very fragile economic model.

[@KryzMasta]

Great story to listen to. She’s a great talker.

[@ciaranjd132]

No she's not. Annoying to listen to.... "Um..um..um..um" !

[@KryzMasta]

ciaranjd132 I didn’t notice at all really. But I can see how once you’ve noticed it, you can’t unhear it.

[@GuillevinYYC]

First video of 2020 that i did not have to skip through! Amazing Speaker!

[@Trazynn]

An algorithm that is able to spot the original language by grammar and spelling mistakes would be huge. Not just for detective work but also for educational purposes. You could start fine-tuning English lessons to each native language as they all struggle with their own obstacles.

[@IamBHM]

It seems like it would be an easy thing to train an AI to do (you'd just have to feed it a lot of examples). I'm not sure how wide the margin of error on the final original language guesser would be though.

[@jakenadalachgile1836]

A simple dialect/language guessing algorithm already exists at archive.gameswithwords.org/WhichEnglish/

[@familyplan979]

It’s a bummer that she self censored with her fear of racism

[@RFC3514]

It would be mostly useless, because: a) Fraudsters will generally just copy & paste strings from other sellers, and not write anything original that could be traced uniquely to them, and b) Most errors that people associate with foreign eBay sellers are actually errors in common translation apps (like Google Translate); it's not the user struggling with English, it's the app translating idiomatic expressions literally.

[@Trazynn]

@@RFC3514 Google translate would still be making different errors based on different languages.

[@alexcarter8807]

Seller doesn't need to ask to cancel an order. They can just cancel the order and click "by buyer request" or "item was lost or damaged" or "there's a problem with the buyer's address".

[@KenDanieli]

Nice job but she fails to explain why the eBay sellers send the extra items. The buyers would have been satisfied with what they ordered at the right price. She thinks maybe a clerical error, but it happened a few times.

[@meranger92]

Because they wan´t to increase sales, therefore to bind every customer by satisfiying him, which works perfectly with extra items. They just have the advantage that they needn´t to pay for the extra items, since the creditcard owner does.

[@KenDanieli]

@@meranger92 Silly.

[@goofycker]

she destroys my business model

[@Cimlite]

Mine too! Why she not take oder and just walk way?!

[@NicholasLittlejohn]

@@Cimlite the foul oder!

[@jamesey]

Those pods are awful for the environment

[@anonymousmc7727]

so are you.....

[@LuxxSlovenia]

anonymous mc are you intentionally evil or just stupid?

[@NicholasLittlejohn]

Agreed, better to French press and compost.. or drink matcha

[@backslash68]

not only for the environment, also for the coffee drinker

[@R3PTILENZ]

Their capsules are recyclable 🤔

[@MrLego3160]

12:55 wouldn't that be covered by "item not as described"

[@genewitch]

ebay allows certain sellers to block this sort of thing. I ordered a sim card that was advertised many times over as doing X, and even said that "while some people claim it doesn't do X, they've never provided proof" - and then have the ability to send proof, blocked. It's cute. But hey, my sim card still works, i just had to buy $500 worth of hardware over the course of 2 years to use it :-D

[@yomajo]

I don't get the "everyone is incentivized" bit. Credit card owner sure did not think so.

[@michaeldeitrick7383]

Credit card owner was unaware or unwitting until it was too late. :(

[@brendanfarthing]

Who pays here? Card owner would have reported the fraud and been fully refunded by their card provider. Does the card provider (bank) suffer the loss? No, they are covered by Visa, Mastercard etc. But does Visa or Mastercard suffer the loss, or are they insured against it and an insurance company covers the loss? I'm curious who actually pays? I know in the end the consumer will pay because any loss will flow back into the price a consumer is charged for a credit card in interest or fees. But at what key points and from which company is money flowing back to the consumer to cover the fraud?

[@theholk]

The credit card companies recover the money from the vendor plus a charge-back fee (if the card holder notices and initiates one).So the vendor is incentivized to not inform the card holder on their own, because that means they have to give the money back+ the charge. They are also not interested in recouperation even IF there was a charge back, because the whole thing is calcualted as breakage, and included in the pricetag for regular customers. (Tells you something about profit margin, though). Other vendors where the profit margin seems lower, or the chargeback fee rivals the individual sales volume (indy computer games), there the vendors are making a bit more of a noise in terms of CC security and how that really hurts them.

[@voltcorp]

@@brendanfarthing which is why she made a point to say most victims were elderly. they very likely do not notice suspicious charges and might just eat them up

[@themodfather9382]

Haha, credit card owner is incentivized not to check their bill.

[@ruisless795]

very wholesome explanation of micro scams online and potentially being apart of a scam.

[@SavageZebra67]

Indeed that was an awesome way to get To a Serious talking point. Thanks Nina

[@davesmith9844]

How many people are now looking for these accounts and being knowingly complicit to get cheap and free stuff???

[@ioannis69k]

She should have called the agent on “manhunt: unabomber “ !

[@armchairrockstar186]

unabomber was much smarter than this

[@NinjaTankRush]

I work for a company that sells Nespresso products, which is why this first caught my eye, but I never expected someone to be using their pods to run that kind of scam.

[@stephenmeinhold5452]

this woman has far to much spare time and coffee, but I like her.

[@DonCurrywurst]

Too much coffee? PAH! That doesnt exist D:

[@zapfanzapfan]

Thank you, youtube algorithm, that was very interesting and entertaining and not at all what I thought it would be when I read the title.

[@Fridelain]

My sister gifted me her old Pixie when she bought a Dolce Gusto machine. It leaks a bit of water and such, needed some cleaning of the coffee residue on the spout, which due to some easy to correct design flaws means taking it wholly apart. Store brand pods and refillables for us, thank you very much. I would hesitate to buy food products from eBay, on account of chinese counterfeits of such.

[@FTH1723]

This has got to be one of my favorite talks. This is why I love the industry.

[@RFC3514]

12:24 - This is not true. You cannot report a _transaction_ as fraudulent if you received the item, but you can go to the listing page and click the "report item" link, which will then give you the option "Listing practices -> Fraudulent listing activities" and "Listing practices -> Stolen property". I have no idea if eBay actually does anything about it, but the option _does_ exist. 9:51 - Also, seller rating (for both new and old accounts), a.k.a. feedback, is shown right next to the seller's name, in the "Seller information" box (which she cropped out of her screenshots...). It's obviously not the same as the _product_ ratings, which are clearly labelled with the words "product ratings". Makes me wonder if she's using some special version of eBay, or just lacks basic observation skills.

[@michaelhull1813]

No one gives any f*cks. You seriously wasted more time than I just did.

[@RFC3514]

Seek therapy before it's too late.

[@Moxtrox]

I wonder if there's any way to actually cheat the fraudsters out of their money without hurting the unsuspecting victim that actually paid for the goods. Because there's nothing better than scamming the scammer.

[@meranger92]

Only way is not to pay the fraudster, that will cause no impact on the victim, but makes you a fraudster.

[@verliebt3465]

You can report on eBay for fraud, or pirated items.

[@khronos7020]

couldn't you just parse the html code for the right buyer instead of looking through 100 of them daily? im asking

[@a_doggo]

"Item significantly not as described" would've sent her on the right path.

[@RFC3514]

Actually, that just sends a message to the seller asking for a refund (if the seller doesn't reply within 3 days, then it goes to eBay customer service). The options she wanted are under "report item" (in the item listing itself, not in her purchase history) and are labelled "Listing practices -> Fraudulent listing activities" and "Listing practices -> Stolen property". Those get sent directly to eBay (not to the seller).

[@crywhit4619]

@@RFC3514 seems super convoluted and not (avg) user friendly. They should have a link on every listing or in every email sent, after confirmed purchases, to report fraud. They are making their cut on these listings so Ebay dgaf.

[@RFC3514]

It's not convoluted at all, you're reporting *the item* not the transaction, so you report it from the *item page,* not your transaction history (the latter has a link to the former, anyway, so if you want to start from there it's just one extra click). The link itself could be a bit more visible, but it's in the right page. It also allows people to report fraudulent listings _without_ buying the item.

[@xybersurfer]

@@RFC3514 i don't think it's the right place. you don't know that it's a fraudulent listing in this case until you receive it. and they may remove the listing leaving only the transaction

[@RFC3514]

@xybersurfer - The listing page is always available for transactions that have been concluded, so that you can check it after you receive the item (otherwise they could just send you something different, remove the listing, and tell you it had been your mistake). Just open the *item* page and click "report item". This would also have allowed her to report the other "suspicious sellers" _without_ playing along with (and benefiting from) the scam herself. She could then check whether or not eBay removed those listings and closed those accounts. There are several other... let's call them "untruths" in this video, so either she has extremely poor observation skills or she decided to misrepresent things deliberately to blame eBay. The way she cropped the whole "Seller Information" panel out of her screenshots makes me suspect the latter.

[@dominickpastore]

I saw some suspicious listings on eBay before, and it makes so much sense after this video. I set a search notification a few months ago for this particular monitor I wanted. A few days later, I started getting dozens of too-good-to-be-true deals from brand new sellers for exactly the same monitor. I stayed far away out of caution, but I'm thinking it was exactly what happened in this video.

[@horrortackleharry]

In the United States, Receipt of stolen property is a federal crime- as it is in most other countries. Therefore, by not even having a 'Report' option, Ebay is actively participating in criminal activity and should be shut down.

[@PapaKiloProductions]

They do have one. She couldn't find it

[@nirfz]

Years ago my working collegues bought a Nespresso machine directly from Nespresso. They also bought so much coffe (from Nespresso, not via ebay) that they got a new machine for every 1000 pads or so they ordered (i could be wrong about the exact number, but it was surprisingly low to me). So keep in mind that the few 100 $ or € they want for the machine aren't what the thing actually costs them. Also if you get a new machine, you will keep using it and buying new coffe (with which they make the real money)

[@PeterKoperdan]

Yeah, pod coffee is like printer ink. That's where they make their money.

[@neuromantoo]

I could listen to Nina Kollars stories every day. Nina if you want to leave the dark side of the military industrial complex, you could have a new career as a raconteur.

[@sean3533]

George Clooney is a coffee mafioso.

[@alexcarter8807]

George Clooney is still a thing?

[@CWGminer]

alex carter only in nespresso ads.

[@CyberWallX]

- "hey honey, whats in the box?" - "nespresso..." - "what else?" YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@xybersurfer]

is this a meme?

[@NewfieOn2Wheels]

@@xybersurfer yes

[@tedsaylor6016]

It's right outta Goodfellas! "And as soon as the deliveries are made in the front door, you move the stuff out the back and sell it at a discount. You take a two hundred dollar case of booze and you sell it for a hundred. It doesn't matter. It's all profit."

[@Frignothanks]

Fed being a fed. So smarmy and self congratulatory. Talk was entertaining, reminded me why I dont like those people though.

[@worddunlap]

Any food you buy from EBAY should be labeled "Consume at your own peril".

[@tobyvision]

Man no kidding. If I saw any packaged food item for half or less market value, there's no way I'd be eating it.

[@user-sw1wq8lh2w]

ebay advice #1: don't buy from 0 feedback sellers.

[@khhnator]

or buy from 0 feedback sellers... it all depends where your moral compass is

[@cumhugs]

KZbin recommendations on point again

[@beau9956]

Them algorithms are smashing it lately

[@dismafuggerhere2753]

yeah 1 video in every 100 is something I haven't seen already or been offered at least 5 times already. I think I'd rather have purely random stuff like this than them thinking they know what I like based on a video I watched.

[@cumhugs]

@@dismafuggerhere2753 yeah I get repeats of stuff I've already seen, but I usually click 'not interested' and when it asks why I say 'I've already seen this video'

[@dismafuggerhere2753]

@@cumhugs I do that too, there's no sign of the algorithm learning that I don't want to see things I've already watched.

[@fetB]

@@cumhugs you'll be interested to know, this doesn't matter. I literally talked to someone working on the team. You're essentially manually editing the playlist. YT's data shows certain people rewatch sometimes, which is reason enough for g/yt to think everyone does and keep this up.

[@RodCornholio]

Just lost her security clearance...accepting stolen goods...maybe her FBI informing will help.

[@JoeyCap.]

I was really waiting for the plot twist in end where the speaker would say.. "It was Nespresso all along, setting up third-party sites and offering the machine and other incentives for free because they knew that once you had a machine in place (or if it was given away) that machine would create another profit Center in someone's household and in the long run their data suggests nespresso makes more money that way over the long run..." Guess I was wrong

[@VB2095_]

Nestle HQ is trying to get your location

[@thesnowmonkeyhaslanded3513]

Nestle Death Squad en route to your location.

[@peaceforgaelandscot]

Joey...Run.

[@RFC3514]

Or it was Nespresso all along, paying her for this viral marketing ad.

[@LostandFoundTravel]

Great blend of storytelling and legit information. Danke!

[@changthunderwang7543]

Nespresso marketing is getting crazy

[@41stmiller]

WOW! Nice talk Dr Kollars--- to think I knew you when you were Ms Kollars in Symposium!

[@danielmartini3229]

so after having thought about it for a while she figured it wasn't a victimless crime? no shit sherlock

[@RogueCylon]

eBay doesn’t care about fraud.

[@alexdavies7112]

This activity won't be limited to new accounts with zero rating, scammers frequently buy hacked / dormant eBay accounts and use them for fraud.

[@Unitedstatesian]

Nina is a great speaker. I enjoyed the talk!

[@kevinbergman8532]

I think I was hit with this, buying pods from Amazon actually.

[@RFC3514]

10:00 - One would only think that if one lacked the ability to read. Those stars are clearly labelled "product ratings" and are (surprise!) the user ratings for that product (not "a generic review of what people think of Nespresso coffee"). Seller feedback (for all accounts) is clearly displayed next to the seller name, inside a box labelled *"Seller information"* (in bold), which she cropped out of her screenshot. It is *not* "near the bottom in a tiny font". It's also pretty trivial to report fraud and stolen property on eBay; there's a link in the product page labelled "Report item" with those exact options in its sub-menu. Amazing how she spent all this time "investigating" these fraudsters and calling the FBI but was unable to find that link, which is on every single listing page on eBay. Good thing she doesn't work as a military strategist or anything like that... Also, "an Nespresso"? Really?

[@tobyvision]

This is a person who is consuming a food product she bought on ebay.

[@billjohnson69]

We just got a Nespresso system and yes, the frother will change your life, lol.. Loved the talk :)

[@dekeonus]

note that Nina didn't put the frother up for auction.

[@Thedownliner2015]

I was part of the test group so received it about 2 years ago but the pods are just too expensive and you get that feeling Nescafe are trying to do the same thing to Coffee that the Printer Companies did to Printer Ink by compartmentalising it and selling the Machines off at a loss but making it up with the sale of the ink. Spend more get less is the hallmark of Capitalism but thankfully the only ones embracing what is clearly an attempt to debase a product are those who like a fad so it never really lasts. Why would you spend 60-80p per pod where all the machine does is push water (not even boiling water which is dangerous) through it as opposed to using a spoon and a kettle and get 50 coffees for less than £5? BTW 50 is an estimate on a Nescafe Jar of Granulated Coffee. Also how are billions of plastic pods supposed to help the environment when we already have Coffee in Glass Jars?

[@botsk33]

Good talk, cheers! Got hacked on ebay 3 times many moons ago, which was part of getting me to learn cybersec back then. Seems to be a nasty place, still.

[@Trevor_Austin]

The biggest scam is the one pushed by Nestle. They are one of the greediest companies in the world.

[@RodCornholio]

She is a wonderful person.

[@DavidFregoli]

bizarre fraud triangle

[@jean-huguesbouchard1045]

New Order

[@jean-huguesbouchard1045]

... Of coffee

[@phyzzx]

It is clear from the letter they moved to a different product because either Nespresso got wise or they were staying one step ahead of the law. They also wanted to stop sending this one address product.

[@gwnbw]

They still do this? Could use a Pixie

[@ArmoredNeko]

Wow, super interesting talk which I didn't expect!

[@Mickeysternum245]

kinda ironic it involved nestle, such a terrible company

[@Seth9809]

Water or baby formula?

[@87channels]

@@Seth9809 or deforestation? Or human trafficking? I did a video detailing all of Nestle's sins if anyone's interested in learning more

[@myview5840]

Corporations are not your friend

[@fionafiona1146]

Shooting union members ect.

[@Skeptic2006]

Too bad cuz I've learned to drink instant coffee and Nestle is the only good one I can buy where I live.

[@steelcarver]

Nice talk, thanks for the intel. 😊

[@notreallyme425]

If you’ve ever worked for the government, you’d understand how she had so much time to investigate this.

[@whydoihavetoify]

That woman is so personable, a totally enjoyable watch, she should do more talks.

[@Jab_hutt]

That's one of a hell sales pitch...Nespresso outdid themselves:D

[@uraoshi]

Laundering of money originating from stolen CCs. That's it. Without the stolen CC such a scam wouldn't be possible.

[@theodorheuss3292]

What I got from this is people are willing to pay insane amounts of money for coffee while thinking it's a bargain.

[@r1marine670]

Nice that you shared this!

[@MastinoNapoletano420]

This is why I don't use ebay....

[@kensaiix]

the fraud process is not ebay specific, every 3rd-party, non-manufacturer website can be abused, amazon, craigslist,...

[@robertkielty5094]

People still use Nespresso pods? The planet is doomed.

[@mitsuracer87]

Ikr. Let's keep going to stabucks

[@robertkielty5094]

@@mitsuracer87 🤣

[@ShadowZero27]

ive read hundreds of comments and no one seems to know why the extra items ship except to make the unsuspecting buyer less likely to ask for a return.

[@someusername121]

It took me way too long to realize how the scammers make money out of this. Sending extra items is irrelevant, they're just making money from the initial ebay transaction and delivering it by using a stolen credit card

[@fosy6991]

no actually... nespresso them self give out the coffemachines as a gift when you order coffe for like 200$ i allready have 4 coffee machines in storage :)

[@MonguzTea]

The listings are back on ebay. Some promise next day shipping anywhere in the world.

[@alibernard1366]

Nespresso is the coffee version of vaping.

[@Jone952]

So she let some criminals use her address to buy things with stolen credit cards. Not a good idea

[@ferencszabo3504]

If you think it over, than this was a gov. project! I think even for this talk she's needed a gov. permission

[@Nimtrix]

@@ferencszabo3504 How so? It was a privately funded hobby project conducted in her free time.

[@kurtstergar1042]

Ok, so who was defrauded? Did someone defraud nesspresso by hacking Nesspresso, sending her an extra item. Then claim that they never got their item. Resulting in a charge back to an account the seller made up?

[@kurtstergar1042]

@Mister Donkey maybe! Didn't you hear the speaker also say Fraud? Who's ID theft hers? Nesspresso's ID or account info from Nesspresso? You don't understand what I've been asking. Who was defrauded and how it works? The speaker got what she payed for plus more but I'm ASSuming that Nesspresso's ordering system was hacked and tricked.

[@kurtstergar1042]

@Mister Donkey Go fuck yourself! Listen to her story again! You wrote a bunch of words with bad grammar and missing a S here and there. So you just negated your attempt at sounding intelligent, which you are not! I asked a few different ways, a simple question and you couldn't answer it. Don't respond anymore.

[@Frank-pj2tb]

@@kurtstergar1042 the middle man stole someone's credit card but instead of buying stuff with it creates a store on Ebay that sells stuff from another company (Nespresso) without having to touch any inventory (dropshipping). Ebay cuts him a check minus ebay fees and voila $$$ good old hard cash, instead of having to buy and sell stuff with the stolen card/identity.

[@kurtstergar1042]

@@Frank-pj2tb thank you. I was thinking it was something along those lines. But the thing I don't get is how the drop shipper was able to sell the items for half price to the women telling the story. When Nesspresso sells the items for full price from their site. Are these items from Nesspresso getting close to there extaration and they work with drop shippers to make some profit and get rid of the items? Damn this women's investigative curiosity is contagious.

[@Frank-pj2tb]

@@kurtstergar1042 I think scammer pays full price with stolen credit card and sells cheap to undercut other sellers on ebay. His stuff sells quicker and it's still 100% profit since he's not paying with his money.

[@hplogsdon293]

I've been caught in these before. Buying something on ebay that clearly is using the same graphics as amazon but is a steal in price, and having two show up. Absolutely frustrating that you can't get it resolved. It's 100% money laundering by being the unwitting participant trading your clean cash for some trivial good of which is actually paid for by some stolen means.

[@hplogsdon293]

@@entox. How is it warranty fraud? The scenario I'm thinking of is when a giftcard is received via the FBI/IRS payment scam or they obtain a skimmed CC and the scammer needs/wants to convert that into reportable cash. They list some item on Ebay and when the unwitting participant purchases the relisted product, they simply purchase it from a throwaway/bot-created amazon account and send it to the ebay purchaser as a gift. In this case it seemed like it was a skimmed CC or a CC opened via identity theft of seniors and the scammer needed to convert that dirty credit into cash. The warranty fraud I'm thinking of is when you convince some retailer that you own a product of theirs that has broken under their warranty and you request a replacement where they send you a new product and you return the old product in the same packaging. I'm a bit confused on how one would manage to convince Nespresso that their coffee pods have broken under warranty...

[@mgmartin51]

The reverse language error concept is fascinating..

[@paradeofbears]

Peet's Nespresso pods are half the cost of the official Nestlé pods at Costco. Real hack right here. /s

[@burprobrox9134]

What about buying the peets on eBay!

[@tobyvision]

@@burprobrox9134 I strongly recommend against eating or drinking anything you get through ebay.

[@seansverige]

interesting lecture; one thing that occurred me is that as the cost of low level fraud is 'built in', it _could_ be argued that each Nespresso customer should buy *X* amount of cheap pods as they've effectively paid for it through regular purchases - though in fact I suspect *X* might actually be quite a small number (depending on how good their fraud detection is)

[@Steve-Richter]

She has a lot of government worker time to spend on this very important line of research.

[@Madopow2110]

you don't think a professional war planner can do some online shopping in their spare time?

[@Asdayasman]

This lady out here _happy_ to pay 50 cents for a single cup of coffee, who're the real thieves?

[@magustrigger9195]

Thats below gas station price

[@Asdayasman]

@@magustrigger9195 Holy fuck you know you can just make it yourself, right? And I'm not like "you can make your own violin!" It's _easy_ to make coffee at home.

[@Max-zr7hr]

@@Asdayasman ...or you can just come up with 50 cents. I think she makes enough to afford it.

[@Asdayasman]

@@Max-zr7hr That's not the right attitude to have with money.

[@robertkielty5094]

@moo 45ct per beverage per mug/consumer who doesn't care about the environment.

[@gavmcguinness8024]

16:50 is a very important point. Vulnerable part of our population.

[@dismafuggerhere2753]

not sure I'd be too keen to keep giving card details to someone I suspected of laundering card fraud also, you can just stroll on up to a semi major manufacturer and get a wholesale business account with stolen credentials ? I'm in the UK, here you'd get run through a credit reference agency and need to be a registered business.

[@info781]

Visa does not care about little things, they make so much money they would just refund George. They will send him a new card if his account has been compromised but not investigate everything. I have had my credit card number changed 3 times in 5 years by visa.

[@macsaba]

Not that Ebay cares about anything, as long as they can keep they share...

[@error.418]

The true crime here is how bad Nespresso is.

[@intsoccersuperstar1]

I like it more than Keurig (although that’s not saying much)

[@error.418]

@@intsoccersuperstar1 heh, yeah, it's really not saying much :(

[@armandblake]

Imagine being married to this woman...

[@TheGreatPurpleFerret]

You can stop at "imagine being married", it'll never happen for you dude.

[@kls1836]

@@TheGreatPurpleFerret i wouldnt want too marry her but he said imagine so i think he definitely can.

[@eddiemorrone870]

This seems like this might have just been a legitimate supplier-retailer relationship where George and other suppliers from Nespresso gave promotional items to Sue and other new sellers. It's concerning that neither Nespresso nor Sue would confirm so; I understand the suspicion of triangulation fraud. Still, George didn't request his money back. If the fraud department contacted George and he had no complaint then this is not a victimless crime. In fact, it's not a crime at all.