Nintendo's "Unlawful" Emulator Lawsuit

[@fawfulmark2]

Ultimately this case might be the "Make or Break" on how Emulation will be viewed in general. It may finally move out of the "Legal Grey Zone" it's been in for decades and be firmly be viewed as one camp or the other under the Law moving forward.

[@suroguner]

We can turn Nintendo's argument around back against them with virtural console and the NSO service by claiming that by what they're arguing about Emulators means that every game they allowed on their systems via emulation are all pirated because they use emulators.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@surogunerThat does not track as Nintendo is arguing that Yuzu is using their copyrighted code to break encryption which is illegal. If Nintendo does the same it is authorized because they would be using their own copyrighted code to break encryption. See the difference?

[@suroguner]

@@Shinjiduo Well then nintendo needs to be more clear in their arguments, or people need to be more clear on their reporting.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@surogunerNintendo is extremely clear in their arguments they literally have a lawsuit filed with the state of Rhode Island that explains in detail the encryption method they use and how games like tears of the Kingdom were able to be so easily played by Yuzu. Its a 41 page document covering all sort of impropriety from Tropic Haze LLC the creators of Yuzu. Point is Emulation one way or another is not going to be seen the same after this case as it did before. Either it is going to be legalized or made clearly illegal, no gray area anymore.

[@deadair32101]

thats the thing, yuzu doesnt. it requires users to dump their own keysets, it uses files supplied solely by the user and uses reimplementations of a lot of things like various applets SPECIFICALLY to keep from using copyrighted code

[@sneeldamorn]

The lawsuit is sloppy. They contradict themselves multiple times and they didn't even bother researching the lead developer's true name. My unprofessional opinion is that three out of the five counts have to be dropped before the trial, because they state factually untrue statements. I am glad the Yuzu team found a local lawyer who focuses on malicious lawsuits.

[@elimalinsky7069]

I actually believe that Nintendo doesn't care whether they win or lose. Yuzu has been up and running for 6 years and Nintendo only now, at the end of the Switch's life cycle, remembered that it exists. Nintendo has new management and a Switch 2 coming up, which will supposedly still use an ARMv8 CPU, a CUDA based Nvidia GPU, the same OS with the same kernel and the NVN graphics API. So basically it will be very similar to the original Switch. Nintendo will try to get Yuzu to shut down, either by scaring them with the lawsuit (and preferably settling outside), draining them of funds due to litigation costs, or outright winning the court case. Worst case scenario for the mustached Italian plumber is that Nintendo loses and everything goes back to where it was up until that point, nothing lost, nothing gained. It's Nintendo of America, not Nintendo of Japan, so a seppuku isn't expected.

[@sneeldamorn]

@@elimalinsky7069 Yes. You may be right. Still it is a good thing they got a lawyer and don't stop the development immediately.

[@timelord5603]

He's gonna lose cause Nintendo. Can just buy off the lawyers but lawyers these days don't have no loyalty So say goodbye to emulation.

[@mechadeka]

​@@timelord5603Yeah, cause no multi-million dollar company has ever tried to sue an emulator before.

[@timelord5603]

@mechadeka Yuzu Just lost and I hope they go after dolphin next And shut it down.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Imagine if there was some legitimate way to Punish a huge company for doing B. S. stuff.

[@EarnestGamer]

There is... stop buying from them, it's called a boycot...

[@ninjapotatolorf6237]

​@@EarnestGamer they meant a REAL way to punish companies, not a made-up way that exists only to make you feel good about yourself for about ten seconds whilst everyone else still buys their games

[@EarnestGamer]

@@ninjapotatolorf6237 that's the beautiful thing about collectivity... If the people at large still want to buy their stuff, then their relationship with the public is good. If you want to punish someone or something, like Nintendo, just because of your own biased opinion then gtfo and stfu, your opinion weighs nothing. If what Nintendo is doing was really hurting their customers, then they would've stopped being profitable a long time ago.

[@ninjapotatolorf6237]

@@EarnestGamer nice job liking your own comment, lol

[@GUKingOfHeart]

OP, stop praising a company that helped break streetdates, for a console that's current.

[@M64bros]

Earlier ago Nathaniel said this about the situation, "Having a Patreon to fund an emulator for a console still on the market was a really bad idea. If you're gonna do this stuff, you do it for free"- Nathaniel bandy, He said it on Twitter.

[@RhythmGrizz]

Completely agree. The emu community is the emu communities biggest opp.

[@myboatforacar]

I mean, couldn't this used to make PCs illegal, because they can be used to write code to circumvent copy protection? Not that that case would ever see the inside of a courtroom, but still...

[@EarnestGamer]

Not really, because PCs don't necessarily expedite the process of circumventing protection, and is, as arduous of a task, that anyone involved must have a clear motive to do so, making them liable for their own actions; I.e. there's no way to write code to bypass security by accident... So the user is at fault, not the tool.

[@myboatforacar]

@@EarnestGamer Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I'm sure something like that will be argued if it's ever legally tested (which I doubt). But then, couldn't the emulators could just pivot and require the user's informed consent? Or ask a skill-testing question, lol. Interesting times.

[@houragents5490]

Video game consoles are treated differently under the law. Hopefully, Nintendo will be able to set a new precedent going forward, though. I'll be rooting for the ninjas! 🥷✌️🥷✌️🥷

[@mariotheundying]

@@houragents5490 hopefully they lose and be laughed at, if someone bought a videogame it's their game now, and someone can do whatever they feel like with their property, if they want to they can emulate the game they bought or modify it if they feel like it, as it's theirs because they bought it

[@NatetheNintendofan]

​@@houragents5490they be coming to your house right now they're coming to mine I have hacked all my Nintendo systems except my switch they're coming to my house buddy they're preparing their NES zappers and ther wii numchucks and there Wii remote with Wii motion Plus inside!

[@CaptPatrick01]

They settled out of court. Apparently not wanting to risk being responsible for a bad precedent if they lost.

[@aycc-nbh7289]

But now the question is whether or not Nintendo will go after other emulator developers, such as those who developed Project64.

[@OctagonalSquare]

@@aycc-nbh7289likely not as older systems didn’t have the same level of encryption, so the same kind of issues don’t exist. Plus most don’t have patreons to get money

[@MrVariant]

They were gonna lose. Bad idea to do this with modern consoles with active eshops.

[@Aldenfenris]

Nintendo does not have to have a winning case, just last longer than the accused on court. Which they can, because they have money.

[@nsgames24]

Weird that they go after emulators on the internet, but never companies that actually make physical pieces of hardware that are dedicated to emulating legacy game content (i.e. Anbernic, Retroid, Ayn, etc.)

[@EarnestGamer]

Because, oddly enough, distributing something on the internet is far more notorious, than distributing it on physical markets who operates, mostly, underground.

[@nsgames24]

@@EarnestGamer Honestly, that's just odd. Well, at least to me. I see what you're saying, but I would think that both would bother Nintendo just as much, as opposed to one over the other.

[@EarnestGamer]

@@nsgames24 it's not so much as to what bothers them, rather than which can they gather evidence from... What are they gonna do, scour every flea market to confiscate the devices? IDTS

[@DPedroBoh]

As far as i know they do go after hardware makers and distribuitors, but as the other guy said, its not as notorious or even damaging to nintendo most of the time, thry were much more aggresive in the ds times since piracy through hardware was much more rampant at the time. Also its very hard to go against mainly chinese manufacturers.

[@HTMangaka]

Agreed. Emulation itself is not Illegal, otherwise Nintendo wouldn't use it themselves. The Illegal aspect is when someone pirates game data to run on the emulator.

[@Eagledelta3]

@Video Game Story Time - The idea that the game I purchased was "pirated" because I dumped it from my console to play on MY PC for better FPS or higher resolution or mods is disingenuous at best. Sure, there are a lot of people pirating games of all kinds (not just switch games), but to classify all of us as that or to even imply that a "majority" of users are pirating is not accurate as there's NO data to back that up. You can't (or shouldn't) be able to take people to court and use some random comment as "evidence". EDIT: Another concern we in the tech community have with "Copy Protection" is that, in this case, what does "circumventing copy protection" mean? If decrypting the software using the keys from your own system count against Yuzu (instead of the user), then when is it NOT circumvention? Because Yuzu just uses the standard OpenSSL libraries used for ALL encryption to use the keys to decrypt the games AS IS THE INTENTION of the technology.

[@LillyP-xs5qe]

Not just higher FPS, but also cheat codes and local save backups

[@houragents5490]

Yes it is and I am SOOOO happt this happening 😊 Developers will be able to more effectively protect their works!! Finally!!!!Go ninjas!🥷

[@switchitup3709]

From what it sounds like, even if you own the game, you need Nintendo permission to decrypt the game.

[@neon1608]

If I purchase a ham sandwich from my local deli then I should be able to eat it on the bus, at home, or on the street. They don't have to facilitate the street-eating, nor should it matter. I bought their sandwich and that should be the end of it, they've made their money and I'm a happy customer. I purchased TOTK for $70 USD and it lags on its' native console. If I want to play it on my pc after having legally purchased it, nintendo should have absolutely no say in it.

[@neon1608]

Also, emulation wouldn't be such a big "issue" if Nintendo would just SELL US THE HAM SANDWICH! I can't be taking sales away from your retro game collection if you won't sell the games to begin with!

[@AllGamingStarred]

exactrly. I don't view emulation as a bad thing. If you don't have the game fine, but if you want to experience it without issues, then why should you be barred from doing so?

[@foximus5231]

The precedent for emulation being legal has already been set by Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. v. Connectix Corp. The court determined in the case that since the playstation emulator in question, the Virtual Game Station, was transformative, it was a legitimate competitor. They even stated that it could cause Sony to lose money, but copyright law doesn't confer a monopoly on such software.

[@lpfan4491]

If they get a diffrent verdict now, the precedent changes.

[@Zacian2.0]

Users VS Item makers. If someone plays a Playstation Exclusive game by hacking it onto the switch, I bet every leader at Nintendo would be fighting to blame the user and not the switch.

[@EarnestGamer]

Because the user would have been the one tampering the original hardware, to operate in a way it was not originally designed to.

[@evdestroy5304]

​@@EarnestGamerYou must be Nintendo's strongest defender, I see you replying to every post in this comment section

[@thatonepossum5766]

@@EarnestGamer once the user buys the item, they should be able to use it however they see fit. The developer shouldn’t get a say, whether it’s as-intended or not.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@thatonepossum5766You bought a copy for personal use. If you want to do whatever with a piece of software then you need to purchase the copyright for the code. If these IP laws were to go away it would be the small guy who would get hurt the most because big companies could just copy any idea they see and produce it at scale nationwide before a sole proprietor could even get the product in a second store. People you don't want to open that pandora's box.

[@thatonepossum5766]

@@Shinjiduo the comment I was replying to was talking about hardware. I’m not for abolishing copyright- piracy _is_ theft (although I do think copyright should be reworked to work better for the modern day). I’m talking about using hardware in ways that weren’t intended by the manufacturer. Not software.

[@clownpal697]

They can keep on doing this but eventually if they don’t allow their older games to be playable, that’s where emulation is ok

[@Shinjiduo]

What does that have to do with Yuzu? A emulator that has for years at this point emulated Nintendo's current product. That is the problem with people they never stop at well enough. That is why emulation is slippery subject because it never stops at out of commission platforms.

[@mariotheundying]

@@Shinjiduo people who have a game and have a switch are free to use the emulator and also emulate the game they bought

[@Shinjiduo]

@@mariotheundyingHow many people pay for the game though... Let's stop being disingenuous here emulation primarily becomes a tool for piracy as none of them have protections against playing illegal downloads.

[@mariotheundying]

@@Shinjiduo how are they supposed to detect illegal games when those illegal games where once legal games and have the same things as those? And c'mon, if someone pirates they were never gonna be a customer on the first place (or is one of those people who tries out a game illegally to see if it's worth buying in the first place because the game doesn't have a demo, there's a lot of Nintendo sports game that weren't sold because of that prob, and the latest Pokemon games, because of their bad state), which still is bad as they're doing something illegal but it's not hurting sales, unless someone buys a high tech computer knowing it will save themselves money because of being able to emulate a lot of consoles and games

[@Shinjiduo]

@@mariotheundyingIf they were never going to be customer then pirates should never have access to the game. Moreover let be honest, when free is presented to a lot of people they take it regardless of morality. If you take that option away or push it completely underground then those people will purchase some games.

[@thatonepossum5766]

This lawsuit feels grimy.

[@EarnestGamer]

It's been touched by lawyers, what did you expect? 😂

[@Im-BAD-at-satire]

​@@EarnestGamer it's the lawyer's job to protect their client, regardless if they feel that they're justifiably guilty or not.

[@Socioromanticism]

As a person who's against most piracy from an artist's perspective and thinks most laypeople arguments for piracy aren't to the ends "fair use" or preservation, It is grimy. Nintendo and many game companies don't care about game "preservation," because...their games are already preserved. The games aren't lost to time. Nintendo just has them. They can release them at any point as is their right. Or they can keep them. As is their right. Just because we want _access_ (we're asking for access, not preservation), we justify piracy for that reason, even though most emulation isn't for fair use or educational purposes or even after a person bought the software and dumped the rom. ...that said, this is still grimy. Good legislation can protect the rights of IP owners while still leaving actual room for fair use or video for educational purposes on KZbin. Unfortunately, Nintendo put this in a reactive lawsuit for a particular case that could set broad precedent that affects cases not like this. What should have happened was that Congress (in the US) should have created legislation to define the cases where emulation can be utilized. And given that Congress won't care about it on their own, those of us wanting video game preservation should have lobbied for this legislation long in advance to create the boundaries for emulation. (...the reason we didn't though is because if we created legislation that didn't infringe upon the rights of the IP owners, we wouldn't care about emulation as a whole. And if I proposed legislative that prevents piracy and made it criminal to do so, emulation wouldn't be a widespread thing anymore. Because most people use it to pirate.) Just say you (not "you," specifically) don't want to spend $70 on a game, and you don't feel bad about stealing from a massive company who can lose 5% on sales for every game and every console and still be fine so I can have fun. The second is video game -preservation- _access_ to people as a whole. But IP owners don't have to allow for that. Which goes back to "I don't feel bad about stealing from a company who can lose 5% on sales for every game and every console and still be fine so there is access to games to the general public without a prohibitive cost of entry."

[@thatonepossum5766]

@@Socioromanticism yeah, I agree that piracy isn’t good. The griminess comes mostly from Nintendo’s borderline lying about what an emulator is for. I do get a lot more ok with piracy once a game stops being available though. Solely because the company doesn’t make any money from it whether I buy a used copy for $200 or download it off the internet. I still _don’t_ download it off the internet, but it feels more ok. Personally I just don’t pay $70 for games, and accept that I won’t be playing them any time soon (until they go on sale or I can get them used). Most games just don’t run well enough on launch to justify handing over that kind of cash. I like cheap games, like Minecraft, Stardew Valley, and the Pokémon games I already own.

[@houragents5490]

??? Not really? This is the best thig to happen to gaming as a whole. Pirates are awful. Go ninjas!🥷

[@Thryx20]

There's tons of emulators online not just for gaming like wine for windows and linux. Even big tech ueses emulators and wouldnt want them banned, this also extends to military and education. Hopefully the judge isnt stupid and realises this could affect so many sectors.

[@LillyP-xs5qe]

*cough cough* Nintendo switch online NES/SNES/N64/megadrive/Gameboy/Gameboy advanced *cough cough* let's hope Nintendo didn't use emulators of any kind *cough* mini console *cough*

[@asuperrandomguy8266]

Wine isn't emulation to, it's translation

[@skweed8]

wine is a compatibility layer not an emulator wine is an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator"

[@switchitup3709]

Of course the judge isn't stupid m if you're going to make an emulator, officially, you're going to ask for PERMISSION to decrypt their work.

[@asuperrandomguy8266]

@@switchitup3709 they don't nintendo already try suing a company for that before and they lost

[@MrGonz801]

The funny thing about their wording is it's encompassing all emulators, not just yuzu, so if that's the casethen according to them every piece of Virtual Console and Every NSO app that lets you play retro games and every retro collection available on the Switch is all unlawful because it's all emulation. Last time I checked the Switch didn't have NES, SNES, Megadrive, N64, GB, GBC, GBA, Saturn, Atari, CPS1, CPS2, NEO GEO or JAMMA hardware, but games from all these systems run through emulation on the Switch and according to Nintendo that's unlawful and must be stopped.

[@Garcian_Smith]

Without being too facetious of an analogy it would be like trying to outlaw hammers. Yes hammers can be used to build houses and at the same time be used as murder weapons but you shouldn't try to throw the baby out with the bath water because of a malignant few people.

[@EarnestGamer]

Except there are clear, well written laws for when a hammer is used to hurt someone, separating both behaviors...

[@sellerspiano9811]

@@EarnestGamerare you pro emulation or against emulation

[@EarnestGamer]

@@sellerspiano9811 Neither, I'm pro rights, even if the one being infringed upon is from a big corp, doesn't matter, the law should be unbiased. If the emulator groups had a right to make those emulators I would speak more on their behalf.

[@sellerspiano9811]

@@EarnestGamer what is your opinion though? Do you think Nintendo will win this lawsuit? Or yuzu?

[@EarnestGamer]

@@sellerspiano9811 it depends on what will Yuzu use as an argument for their defense... Hard to tell at this point, but even harder to figure out if there's even a valid argument to defend Yuzu...

[@curabletoxin]

A good example of unlawful is Jaywalking. If you jaywalk you wont be immediately arrested and most people just dont even care to call you out on it. Illegal would be having crack on you. The drug is illegal and its basically an end of story case

[@Lemuel928]

They jayrun too.

[@curabletoxin]

@@Lemuel928 touche

[@LillyP-xs5qe]

Jaywalking is fully legal in most of Europe

[@callak_9974]

Emulation is not just for video games. The meaning of EMULATE is to strive to equal or excel (from the Merriam-Webster dictionary), like children emulate their parents to learn how to walk, speak, eat, etc. Emulators for this is to make another device pretend to be another device, and end up usually giving out a better user experience like with save states, higher frame rates, even higher resolutions.

[@pikmin4743]

some dollars are used for crime so all dollars should be illegal, right?😁

[@EarnestGamer]

You might be saying this as a joke or satire... but there's truth to this statement, beyond what most people can comprehend.

[@Owen-jl2eg]

@@EarnestGamer Yeah tbh I get it, was just bored in class when I commented that lol

[@Yoshizuyuner]

Politics be like

[@houragents5490]

Why do piracy whit knights always have the worst arguments?

[@nonenothingnull]

​@@houragents5490 if buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing. Also, it's not even piracy to be an emulator, it's like saying a business transaction is somehow theft. Implying piracy, too, as if it was pirates on boats boarding up bigger boats, a pr word to favor corporations

[@Raven_Frame]

This legal battle is going to be critically important for video game preservation moving forward. I hope Yuzu fights this, and I've chosen to support them on patreon in the desire to fund their defense.

[@lpfan4491]

One day later...they did not, they just folded. Of note being that literally nothing changes because everything important is already backed up.

[@alexs-mind]

Just saw this video after seeing an announcement from the yuzu team ceasing all further development or support for yuzu…

[@nathanieldearinger1673]

If Nintendo was smart, they would sell their own means of backing up their games. People would be less likely to pirate if Nintendo offered a legal way for consumers to make their own digital copies of games the consumers have already purchased.

[@Shinjiduo]

Don't hide behind that thin veil. The reality is if people have to pay for what they do via piracy already, those people are not going to accept any charge from Nintendo to continue doing it. The reason why the old virtual console was a failure. People still emulated even though Nintendo has a system that would allow you to purchase old games.

[@johnlucas1543]

+nathanieldearinger They DO sell a backup of their games. It's called buying another copy. Pirates will pirate no matter what Nintendo does. Pirates go after Treasure. Nintendo games are the most treasured games in the entire videogame industry. They will protect their treasure against pirates who will always come for their treasure. It's just the cycle of life. One tries to take, the other tries to safeguard. The one who is better at it gets to hold the most of the treasure. ABC 123.

[@fillerbunnyninjashark271]

😆😆😆 Nintendo games are some of the absolute worst games

[@johnlucas1543]

@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 Games that are in the highest demand for emulation & piracy. Hence Yuzu's thirst for them. I don't think you truly believe the words you are saying.

[@trunguss]

​@@johnlucas1543They sell backups until they discontinue the console. Reminder of how long it's been taking to get TTYD rereleased... and even then, that's not even preserving the original.

[@prodyg]

The main use for Yuzu was for people to play their switch games on better hardware. Not piracy. Piracy is possible but the real draw was 4k BOTW, for example. Yuzu isnt any more a piracy vehicle than the switch itself since its so easy to pirate games on the actual hardware.

[@Riddim_glitch]

If Nintendo manages to van Yuzu because you *can* pirate the Nintendo switch's titles with it, then the US needs to ban Firearms because you *can* commit homicide with them. Yet the US doesn't. Thus I think Yuzu has all the protection it needs.

[@Shinjiduo]

The right to bear arms is a constitutional right. Where in the constitution does it say you have the right to play every game on any piece of hardware? You can't use rights imbued by the constitution like it is simple legal precedent. The law does not work that way.

[@fillerbunnyninjashark271]

Funny, the government did just that. Government will do everything it take to take away freedoms and rights

[@DreamyAbaddon]

@@Shinjiduo I think you missed his point. What he is saying is that the emulator can be used to play pirated games just like how a gun can be used to commit murder. Both which are crimes. But you can still use an emulator to play your legally bought games just like you can still use a gun legally for self defense.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@DreamyAbaddonI got what you said perfectly. However, the reason we have the right to bear arms has nothing to do with practical application today hence why Rights afforded to us in the US Constitution is in free float apart from legal precedent. At the time the US Bill of Rights was being put together the country was still just being formed and their was a real threat of conquest or internal revolt at that time. The 2nd amendment exist so Americans could be equipped to form militias on the spot and defend itself with agility from threats, foreign and domestic. Over time gun ownership became endemic to the American cultural landscape. Now people own guns less for self defense and more for an expression of their rights. Any attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment now is looked at as government tyranny and pull back American freedom. When you think about it the same availability of guns provided by the 2nd amendment that allows you to more easily defend yourself and your property also empowers those who would infringe on your personal safety and property. In short, you have guns but the bad guys have them too. So it is a wash in actuality.

[@M00nlightOfficial]

​@@Shinjiduo Essentially we're just looking at the difference between a privilege and a right. We have the right to bear arms, but it's a privilege to emulate.

[@davidagiel8130]

How is it possible so many youtubers get it wrong? Emulation is not the issue with Yuzu, they screwed themselves by profiting from it with patreon and giving directions on how to obtain prod and title keys. If they just released the emulator like normal they wouldn't be in this situation. Emulation isn't in trouble, Yuzu are.

[@RhythmGrizz]

Thank you! Finally--common sense

[@Etienne.6329]

As soon as we start talking about emulation, gamers go into full wishful-thinking mode and stop caring about facts all together. Every. Single. Time

[@lpfan4491]

Commercial emulators are not more illegal than free ones. However yeah, the advice on how to get the keys is most likely what got them on Nintendo's radar.

[@schikey2076]

i think TOTK being leaked is a saving grace that got Nintendo the edge here imo... if it wasn't for that, Nintendo would have not made a move at all... (even if Yuzu paywalled their stuff) moral lesson to learn : dont go out publicly declaring that you managed to emulate a leaked Switch game, especially Zelda of all things or suffer the consequences... you'll never know the amount of Nintendo ninjas lurking within your discord chats haha

[@lpfan4491]

@@schikey2076 Which is ironic btw, because they specifically denied bugreports for leaked games on Github.

[@rd-um4sp]

despite some bias (and not a negative one, I'm 110% with you), very nice reading of it.

[@Socioromanticism]

I agree there's absolutely some bias, and I'm 100% with him on how this could set bad precedent for cases that aren't like Yuzu's.

[@Dormat25]

Nintendo won't stop there. If they win, they can apply the same broad logic to EmulationStation or even handheld gaming hardware coming from China that's so ubiquitous

[@ColpoRosso]

Honestly, this looks more and more like a move to make nintendo's investors happy and feel secure in their investment. For nintendo is not about winning, it's about protecting their intellectual property by giving a signal. Even the text of the lawsuit is written to make it look like nintendo is a good name to invest for in some passages.

[@Semi_Colin]

This lawsuit made me want to install dolphin

[@lnee]

Make a box that has copyrighted content. Then make the box protected via a lock that's tied to a specific GPS coordinate. And then put in somebody's house. Say, "The judge's house." And say, "You would be violating the DMCA if you moved that this." So, don't.

[@Tomatech]

Technically, a Nintendo Switch can be used to play pirated Nintendo games

[@OctagonalSquare]

Granted, only by equally breaking copy protections.

[@TeaBeeAdventures]

I'm pretty sure the majority of people played the game on hacked switches. And I would have loved to have seen that brought up in court.

[@RenTheDeveloper]

No they didnt. Even Yuzu devs mentioned in their discord that it was their most played game on yuzu...@@TeaBeeAdventures

[@xCastorm]

"The main use for an emulator like this is piracy." What are you on about? Here's a rephrase of the scentence that would be true instead of misinformation and bad journalism. "The majority of yuzu's audience uses it for piracy"

[@xCastorm]

Yuzu's main use is not piracy because the developer team is actively against it and actively bans and shuts down anyone who talks about piracy or how to do it on their platforms, you can't call something the main use if it isn't intended for that, imagine if I said Q-Tips are used to clean your ears, when in reality I should say, people use Q-Tips to clean their ears.

[@blenderpanzi]

Nintendo ships themselves emulators with their virtual console service. So if all emulators are unlawful Nintendo does unlawful stuff themselves?

[@ryanhodgson8676]

Aw man I was hoping you were gonna have fun with all the juicy bits in the lawsuit. Twitter fans, Discord chats, etc. There was a lot of great stuff here to unpack!

[@ejgeorge23]

Welp it seems yuzu folded and it settled the lawsuit

[@jcdejesus2296]

Because Nintedo have screenshot of discord and patreon.

[@RhythmGrizz]

​@@jcdejesus2296 bingo

[@OctagonalSquare]

Avoids setting a legal precedent

[@kittentheboss2796]

I don't think them loosing would completely destroy the emulation scene since we have previous court cases backing it. More or less it depends on the judge, circuit court, and which arguments appeal to the judge. But it would put emulation back at square one again all because of 1201.

[@RaimarLunardi]

but why did yuzu guys give up so easily?? In Brazil the law states that is forbidden to have a "married sell", meaning, you can't sell something that you forbid to be used any way you want if you don't buy something else... so, it's legal and expected that I could just buy a game, rip it, and play on a emulator without having a console. it's the law.

[@OctagonalSquare]

Unfortunately Brazil is far from the only country, and definitely not the widest market for Nintendo or Yuzu

[@bearRimshot]

I think you bring up a number of valid points regarding emulation. Now, the way I always see myself touch upon emulation in general, I only would use emulation for accessibility to enjoy playing said game in general. It is honestly reasons why if I say personally want to enjoy playing a classic Nintendo game on say either something like my phone or on my Steam Deck, I would’ve rather play more say stuff up to the Nintendo Wii generally speaking. Hence, why if I want to play Mario either on my phone or my Steam Deck, I would play more of such games like the entire Super Mario Advance saga, Mario Baseball, any Mario Kart games up to Wii and Super Mario Bros all either on my phone or on my computer all for the sake of accessibility. The same can also be said on if I want to play Smash on my phone or computer, I would play more of anything up to Brawl, particularly if we are talking all unmodded like if I want to play Smash in general Waluigi free and Goku free or the first 2 Smash games Sonic free. The same can also be said on enjoying playing such classics as Sly Cooper, Revenge of the Sith, Phantom Menace, the Sonic Adventure games, Sonic Heroes and Marvel vs. Capcom as well. Yes, I know some of these games I just mentioned aren’t necessarily on Nintendo platforms in general, but you get my point in all of this. I say as a fact about myself that I would only use emulation for accessibility for as you can tell on Nintendo on their stance on their own work on games in Layman’s terms, they are mentally Disney Vault enablers. When it comes to the Nintendo Switch in particular, not only would it be absolutely rare in my life anyways to use Switch emulation, usually to enjoy playing modded versions of games like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Mario Party Superstars, but also understanding the technicality of the Switch, I can use it either as a console or as a handheld. In fact, often times than not, I love playing on my Switch more if I want to be, not only to play games such as Smash Ultimate, Mario Party and Super Mario Oddessy, but also would be the go to device to play such games on the go as Final Fantasy VII, Mario Kart 8 and Mega Man as big offenders in this. Most games I like to play that I can on Switch that I would like to mod if and when I want to, that is what the PC versions of these games can be for like if I want to mod games like Waifu Impact and potentially Star Wars Battlefront Classics Collection, I am lucky I got the PC versions of these games for not only for me to play for fun but also for me to mod if I want to. The same can also be said on modding such games as Kingdom Hearts II and Force Unleashed as well.

[@MysteryCorgi_VN]

Wouldn't this also mess with the ability of developers to test their games on various devices through emulation? Since not everyone can get a devkit or every current phone on the market, etc. etc.

[@avadoksorem2854]

Gabe Newall. Now is the time. You need to testify.

[@johnlucas1543]

+avadoksoem Gabe ain't getting involved. He does not want that smoke from Nintendo. The Dolphin situation showed that. Nintendo don't play about their IP. They could sue Valve out of business with a hefty judgment. Yuzu screwed themselves with their own hubris. Gotta keep things confidential when you're moving like this. They got cocky instead. All the memes in the world won't save them from a legal butt-whooping.

[@fillerbunnyninjashark271]

Dolphin is still up and in active development...

[@avadoksorem2854]

@@johnlucas1543Gabe explicitly pointed out how piracy is a service problem, not a money problem. If there’s a point where that statement is needed in a legal battle, it’s now.

[@johnlucas1543]

@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 Yeah, of course they are. They stayed in their lane unlike Yuzu. If you keep it low & slow, Nintendo will let it slide & leave you alone. But if you get too cocky, Nintendo will show you who's the cock of the walk.

[@johnlucas1543]

@@avadoksorem2854 Gabe says anything because he has vested interest in what these pirates do. It's no accident that Steam Deck had Yuzu in that promotional video. Valve is trying to sneak into competition with Nintendo but playing passive-aggressive with it. He's a software maker trying to morph into a hardware maker. But he knows any misstep can kill his whole company. They're private not public so funding is different. Nintendo NEVER loses a Handheld race. EVER. Sony found that out the hard way. At one time Sony was referring to Nintendo as "Handheld Gaming Ghetto"... ...by the end Sony said they would never make a Handheld Console again. The way Nintendo pulled a Final Fantasy VII-like move when they ripped Monster Hunter from Vita was like "Payback's a Mutha, ain't it? Killed Vita in the CRIB & locked their dominance in Japan over Sony. Apple & Google can only take them on indirectly. Mobile may have more revenue due to the proliferation of smartphones around the world (billions) but Console is still the core of the entire industry. It's the only place where developers/publishers can have people buy games up front & maintain prices over time as well as have a physical product on the shelves. PC game makers still come to consoles to make money even WITH the advent of PC market-saving Steam. Gabe knows all of this so he won't put up a direct challenge until he's fully ready to attack. So it doesn't matter what he says. Valve doesn't make any games TO be pirated so what does he know? Nintendo makes oodles of games so they're gonna protect their interests as they should. Piracy is unstoppable. It's a human problem not a service problem. All you can do is curb it & contain it. Yuzu went too far & now Nintendo is gonna drop the hammer on them. The others are safer because they stayed in their lane. Nintendo hates ALL of it but they choose to enforce when things get egregious. Yuzu crossed that line.

[@Cyko..]

The fact is the majority of people downloading Yuzu is to play free Switch games. Period. Nobody is downloading Yuzu to play the chart-breaking awesome homebrew games the whole world knows about like Stick Fighter, 2048, and Flappy DX. 😊

[@Bajoomboe]

Nintendo needs Yuzu emulator out of the picture because it will devalue the backward compatibility of their upcoming next gen platform.

[@zergmaster9999]

What makes you so sure that Nintendo's next console will be backwards compatible with Switch games?

[@SuperSmashDolls]

My personal favorite analogy regarding DMCA 1201 is that it's a "federal contempt of business model" tort. That being said, we have to keep in mind that "emulator" is such a broad term that even Nintendo uses emulation. Like, the NSO retro games they offer are emulated, and so was Virtual Console on the Wii, Wii U and 3DS. Porting games to new systems is expensive and emulation is cheaper. Nintendo even knows this: the 3D Classics line of games on the 3DS, which were all ground-up rewrites of classic NES games for stereoscopic 3D, cost way too much to produce for how many people bought them. The way I'm interpreting the lawsuit is that Nintendo is trying their darnedest to make Yuzu look more illegal than it actually is so that the judge is more likely to rule in favor of completely shutting it down rather than just demanding Yuzu remove the page that tells people how to dump their keys and maybe some amount of money for their trouble. I don't think it'll actually form a precedent against emulation, beyond the existing laws forbidding telling people how to remove DRM, which are already really scary. DMCA 1201's prohibitions are heavily weighted against people offering DRM removal tools over people actually breaking DRM. If Nintendo was suing someone who had dumped their own ToTK cartridge and keys to run them in Yuzu, they'd probably lose eventually (if the defendant didn't immediately fold), because DMCA 1201 allows breaking DRM for a *very long* list of reasons that the Copyright Office can update at any time. But it does *not* apply any of those exceptions to the distribution of DRM breaking tools. To put this back into your right-to-roam analogy, it's as if you're allowed to use wirecutters when roaming, but so much as mentioning that wirecutters exist can land you in prison. (Don't ask how the hell that works with the 1st Amendment.)

[@josephb8268]

You can use VLC media player to view and listen to pirated content. Should VLC media player be banned?

[@alcoke1208]

In the case of movies and music, they simply go after the domains and sites that make it possible, not the media player. Notice how the third party retro hand helds arent getting sued?

[@rebelanon]

"unlawful." Lmao. No its not. Yuzu did things behind the scene that got them caugjt

[@saricubra2867]

Yes, but Citra didn't. There's no reason for the takedown of Citra, just collateral damage.

[@rebelanon]

@@saricubra2867 youre right. I personally think citra being taken down is sad bc it prompts the dead 3ds with its own online and you could also record videos on citra/stream. But oh well not like 3ds had that many good online games to begin with but still oldschool emus are better than current ones.

[@IaconDawnshire]

If Nintendo had their way they'd make fan art illegal!

[@EarnestGamer]

It is... When said "fan art" hurts the image of the company... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@aycc-nbh7289]

@@EarnestGamerSo what do you think Gooseworx and Glitch Productions will do about TADC content farm channels?

[@EarnestGamer]

@@aycc-nbh7289 IDK, are they damaging the image of the TADC brand? Or are they making content that is protected under fair use? If Grooseworx or Glitch pursue legal action, we'll see.

[@TeaBeeAdventures]

Back in the day I had a tumblr account (cringe, I know) and NIntendo personally DMCA'd some of my images to remove them because Nintendo didn't like them. So yes, in their eyes fan art is illegal.

[@DangoUnchained8649]

Surprised the fact that not all major companies see emulation as only a gateway for piracy wasn't brought up. Yes, the lawsuit focuses on Nintendo console emulators (specifically YUZU), but if Nintendo wins, then ALL emulators could be/would be targeted. This would include another popular emulator, BlueStacks, an emulator for Android games which is developed by a company with around 500 employees worldwide. BlueStacks has been around for nearly 15 years, and has backed by some of the largest players in the tech industry. Some notable companies that have backed BlueStacks are Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm, but another major player that has backed them in the past, one that BlueStacks doesn't mention on their site, is Samsung. Yes, in July 2014, Samsung, the makers of the Galaxy line of smartphones and tablets, had invested $13M into BlueStacks for their "GamePop" platform. One of the biggest manufacturers in Android hardware actually supported a company making an emulator of the same platform they themselves are making hardware for. And if that isn't proof enough for Nintendo, that not every major company sees emulation as only a form of piracy, Google, the owner of the Android platform, is currently in development of their own, official emulator for playing Android games on PCs, simply called "Google Play Games for PC". Google Play Games for PC is (at the time of writing this) currently in open beta, while BlueStacks is currently in its 5th major version as well as a cloud-based version. Bottom line is that Nintendo surely just can't completely ignore the fact that there are major companies that actually support emulators.

[@PixelaGames2000]

This is not OK, I get where Nintendo is coming from…but this is not it. Emulation is not illegal, it is how we preserve video games for future generations. Because gaming companies are too lazy to properly preserve there games, we are stuck doing the dirty work. Game consoles don’t last forever, and some games aren’t always available to purchase, so…we need emulators to make older games available for everyone. What happens in 20 years when the switch is old and the games are hard to get? We NEED emulators in order to preserve games and make them available for future generations. Think of it like a digital library, where it’s free, and people can play whatever games they want. Copyright law is outdated and stupid, and Nintendo needs to get off there high horse and think of the future. Emulators aren’t hurting you Nintendo, get real!

[@Shinjiduo]

Emulating a current platform does not promote "preservation" it promotes piracy. Yuzu should have not distributed the emulator until the Switch was out of commission plus 5 years. Hubris takes all comers down eventually.

[@davisterrel]

Awesome content!! If there was only one way to copy the Switch game without using the unlawful process. Maybe that will be the only way to continue with the Yuzu project. Unless there is some sort of law that does catalogs copying a game as illegal or unlawful.

[@callak_9974]

In Canada, its legal to have a copy of anything you own. So totally legal to own a digital version of a physical game you have, or to rip a music cd, movie dvd, etc. You are not allowed to sell it, only for your own personal usage.

[@davisterrel]

​@@callak_9974 there you go! All yuzu has to do is move the headquarters to Canada and Nintendo won't have a chance to win. Thanks bro!

[@aycc-nbh7289]

@@callak_9974But what if making such copy voids Nintendo’s licensing agreements? They could simply say that one’s license terminates when one makes a copy.

[@akashmondal9794]

I won't put it in as simple as "Nintendo big company bad". Nintendo abusing their huge liquid cash reserve to bully individuals or smaller companies is certainly bad, but they don't really go after random companies or individuals, they are bound by the law to protect their trademark, copyright, etc in this way. A law/video game channel called the Moon channel explained this really well. Nintendo didn't really go after yuzu for several years since it came out, and only now they are going after them. Why? well, because things got out of hand. Totk being downloaded somewhere around 1 million times before its launch seems to be the straw. if this happened in a smaller scale, I hardly doubt nintendo would go after them. But Nintendo is still in the wrong because they can't fix the root cause of the issue, that being the easily exploitable soc in the switch. So they are targeting the second best thing to recoup the damages. which is wrong.

[@TheOrian34]

If they provided their games outside of console, pretty sure there'd be a lot less need for emulation...

[@Shinjiduo]

Please! If Nintendo put their games on PC or mobile natively, piracy of those games would skyrocket. If you are already pirating the games via emulation why would you pay for them when they are even easier to pirate? Other people who steer clear of emulation and downloading ROMs would join in with the piracy festivities. You never give in to bad actor's demands.

[@TheOrian34]

That doesn't make sense, people that want to pirate, already do so, and those that don't want to are forced because there's no alternative on PC...@@Shinjiduo

[@Shinjiduo]

@@TheOrian34You really believe that all the people who are willing to pirate already pirate? Some people will not use emulators so those pirates will jump on board. Moreover if you think Nintendo is going to come to PC without their own launcher and ecosystem you have not been paying attention to Nintendo all these years. So guess what comes with that? The Steam Nazis will see pirating Nintendo native PC games as their civil duty because they dare not line Gabe Newell's pockets. The estimated insane amount of piracy PC releases of God of War, The Last of Us and Spider-Man Remastered with a 10 to 1 pirate to paying customer ratio indicates their are no shortage of pirates out there. Lastly why do you want a product from a company you don't want to support? Nintendo is a game platform provider not a 3rd party developer. If you want their products purchase their current console. Nintendo hates mods and do not want to give "tacit permission" to mod by putting their products on PC natively a problem companies like Capcom are currently dealing with.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@TheOrian34Also no one is forced to pirate as games are not an essential life sustaining product. If you pirate it is because you want to full stop. Plenty of games out here to play from other companies.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@TheOrian34 You really believe that all the people who are willing to pirate already pirate? Some people will not use emulators so those pirates will jump on board. Moreover if you think Nintendo is going to come to PC without their own launcher and ecosystem you have not been paying attention to Nintendo all these years. So guess what comes with that? The Steam Nazis will see pirating Nintendo native PC games as their civil duty because they dare not line Gabe Newell's pockets. The estimated insane amount of piracy PC releases of God of War, The Last of Us and Spider-Man Remastered with a 10 to 1 pirate to paying customer ratio indicates their are no shortage of pirates out there. Lastly why do you want a product from a company you don't want to support? Nintendo is a game platform provider not a 3rd party developer. If you want their products purchase their current console. Nintendo hates mods and do not want to give "tacit permission" to mod by putting their products on PC natively a problem companies like Capcom are currently dealing with.

[@404_coffee9]

I am annoyed by this fact but because they have set up this standard people will just find a way around it legally making cases such as this tighter and tighter in court. It is like tightening belt around the neck of a hydra until it gets decapitated by the belt and then it is a matter of dealing with the newly grown head.

[@circledude2362]

Let's Hope Tropic Haze can use this video as defense. Tears of the kingdom being pirated was not their fault. Vuzu requires you to have a legal copy of the game. This needs to be a lawsuit NINtendo files but loses.

[@pablocasas5906]

Well, about that...

[@noodleman4555]

Settled out of court today. It's over.

[@circledude2362]

@@noodleman4555 we will need to preserve the yuzu itself

[@diogoepronto]

Boycott Nintendo. Don't buy their games and consoles or at least buy them second hand. They don't deserve our money.

[@oo--7714]

Nah 😂 I don’t think I will

[@Molybed1]

Boycott Nintendo? Nah. Go cry in a corner you broke thief. 🤣

[@TeaBeeAdventures]

That's what I'm doing for now on.

[@Pyrodiac]

Oh I'd love to. I just kinda don't feel like missing out on, what are in some cases, masterpiece, and god forbid I'm going to pirate a current-gen game that isn't from Ubisoft.

[@AnimaJumper]

So if according to Nintendo everything that can be used to play pirated Games is illegal, then Nintendo releases an illegal console. My V1 Switch could possibly Play pirated Games. Time for Nintendo to sue themselves 😂

[@mudachaproductions]

"A video game emulator is a piece of software that allows users to unlawfully play pirated video games" If that's the case what would Nintendo call the software that runs the NES and SNES Classic mini consoles? 🤔

[@EarnestGamer]

Properly licensed software...

[@ecks4657]

@@EarnestGamer It is software that emulates other consoles. They are by definition, emulators.

[@EarnestGamer]

@@ecks4657 I guess we could call them emulators... However, it does not change the fact that they are legal emulators licensed and used by the owner. It would be different if Nintendo had a playstation emulator on the NSO without Sony's permission...

[@Psy500]

@@EarnestGamer That can run injected ROMs with ease even those not owned by Nintendo.

[@dominicdalton4346]

This aged well ....

[@themannyac7582]

Is there any way we can donate to the defense case because this is super important to fifth against

[@3266393]

probably the yuzu patreon

[@OctagonalSquare]

Yuzu has officially settled out of court, agreeing to pay Nintendo, and take down both Yuzu and their 3Ds emulator.

[@EarnestGamer]

I don't think is wrong for Nintendo to pursue legal protection of their IP's, as copyright law stems from the right to private property, and the claim that, something shouldn't be "illegal" because it can be used with good intent as well as bad intent, and the good overcomes the bad... it's a tricky thing to say. Just because Nintendo is a big company, doesn't mean they shouldn't have a legal recourse to protect themselves, or that they are picking on a poor group of people who are being held back by the industry. To put it simply, if emulation can be used for good constructive things, like preservation or education, then they should, and since software piracy is illegal, then groups like yuzu, or even independent programers, better find a way to avoid incurring in piracy, or be accused of criminal negligence, at the very least...

[@ninjapotatolorf6237]

Actually a pretty reasonable take on the situation. That said, the goal of the lawsuit should then be to put checks into place to prevent direct piracy through emulation, as opposed to simply attempting to ban emulation altogether. In my opinion, a more reasonable response would be to instead crack down on websites that allow you to download game ROMs, as well as provide an easier way of accessing ROMs for Nintendo games through Nintendo themselves, be it in the form of making a ROM come with digitally-purchased games or otherwise. No idea how practical of a solution this would be, but it's just something to think about.

[@BoopTheSynth]

OK, so fix piracy... I think people have tried that before and if I remember correctly it didn't work. Also by your logic browsers should be illegal because you can pirate with them with no safeguarding against it.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@ninjapotatolorf6237The crackdown on ROM sites already happened. It was like striking at a hydra with no heart as torrent sites would keep on popping up in place of the site that were taken down. As for Nintendo providing ROMs, they did that before and people did not want to buy them as people seem to for the most part not want to purchase old games at any price. It has to be commercially viable for Nintendo to make their games eternally available. Otherwise it is just a waste of money.

[@evdestroy5304]

​@Shinjiduo I think they meant a way that's readily accessible, as in not requiring a 200 dollar system and a required softmod that could potentially get said system banned

[@terra_creeper]

The thing you are missing is that modern copyright law is insane. It doesn't exist to protect authors. The only reason it exists as it is, is to benefit corporations and if they could, they would make copyright last forever. The fact alone that copyright extends past the author's death is mind-boggling. Even if emulation enables piracy, it's not necessarily bad. At least to me, piracy is a spectrum. At the one end is pirating from independent authors, which is (generally) morally indefensible. But at the other end is piracy of abandonware. I do not believe that there is any sound argument that pirating abandonware is wrong, Actually, I firmly believe that abandonware should lose its copyright and become part of the public domain. Copyright was created to incentivize authors to create new works and build upon them, which is why it originally lasted only 14 years. If they do not do that, they should not receive that right. This specific lawsuit is against an emulator for a current generation, which obviously eliminates abandonware from being a factor. But this was almost certaintly intentional, as it strengthens the case for nintendo and allows them the chance to ban emulators wholesale. Even if you disagree with how Yuzu functions, you should hope that they win. Even if you believe that piracy is wrong, you should hope that Yuzu wins. Because if nintendo wins, it's one step closer to a world where an idea can be controlled by a corporation in perpetuity.

[@StoryTeller796]

If they were to reword things to be more specific as to what their intentions are, instead of trying to establish an untrue, self-contradictory, and downright dishonest narrative that they could later use to hammer down any emulation they see fit, which lets be honest considering Nintendo's economic system and goals within that system would be every single piece of emulation software (which would leave Hardware as a potential legal loophole, but then again it could just be argued that that too is a form of piracy, theft, or general misuse/misappropriation of their technology if Nintendo really wants to pursue that route) that so much as touches what they've touched, then this would be more stronger as an argument. What this whole document means is that anything and everything underneath them that has not been put up as third party enough for other competitors to be able to legally claim as a part of their right to distribute is now grounds for Nintendo to go after and limit distribution. Basically, Nintendo is going to try to make a monopoly on their intellectual property, which is not going to sit well with a lot of people and they might end up putting other monopolizing entities under some very hot water if they continue this route. This is them asking for a license for witchhunting. They're literally putting their entire business model at risk for going down this route despite the business model also requiring them to go down this route. You could even say that Nintendo's main goal is to self-destruct.

[@polocatfan]

this aged like milk

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

Too be fair, I don't think he said that Yuzu was going to win so I would not say that the video aged like milk.

[@dcdawg13]

Aren't the makers Yuzu making money off the emulator through Patreon by giving early updates to the emulator to people who are subscribed to their Patreon?

[@trunguss]

So did Conntectix with their virtual game station but that was protected under fair use.

[@SonofMrPeanut]

Once again, thankful that the ESA doesn't have E3 anymore.

[@kairinase]

Don't worry about this lawsuit... It's just a ruse that they made to make sure their console sells. If it's something like mods, R4 or jailbreak, they'll turn off their eyes. When it comes to emulators, they'll fight till the last HP. Hope the emulators win.

[@michaelrivera4299]

Well, all this was for nothing 😂

[@HulluHapua]

Do they not realize that Yuzu doesn't even offer you the tools to circumvent the prod keys? And the fact that they have themselves used emulation? I'm pretty sure that the Yuzu emulator is following the same law as other emulators, where the emulator itself is completely legal if it doesn't have any tools to bypass the copyright protection, and backing up software and entertainment in a private setting is barely enforced as a crime, especially in parts of Europe and most of the developing nations, since there would have been a whole lot more lost media otherwise. Logically they would have gone after the prod key tools in the first place. The only other thing they should have pissed about Yuzu is it's based on their latest hardware.

[@Chaossandra]

R.I.P. yuzu and citra

[@saintlugia]

Are we really going to pretend like piracy isn't the main use of emulators. I don't know about the rest of you but i played megamanX skyrim and zelda pirated.

[@Shinjiduo]

Really how many people have the skill to make homebrew console game? Especially with all the confessions on Social Media over the years we know exactly what they are used for the vast majority of the time.

[@ShadwSonic]

Ah, but anyone who played Super Mario Bros (NES) outside of NES or the Allstars version on SNES have also played a "pirated" copy. How you ask? _Because Nintendo lost their code, so they had to_ download a ROM _of that game in order to sell it on Virtual Console!_ If _any_ game could be said to be "mainstream" enough to outlaw its emulation, it would be SMB1, yet the fact that Nintendo had to go that route proves that the preservation argument supercedes that line of thinking entirely. Now, I actually don't think Yuzu is something that should exist yet, because it's the _currently sold_ games... but emulation of _older_ consoles? That's not stealing money or copies from anyone. You can't call me a pirate for doing something that's not stealing. But if Nintendo is forcing an "all or nothing" scenario? Then better for the pirates to sail than the Trading Company to rule the world.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@ShadwSonicThere is no moral imperative to play a game. Video games are not a essential quality of life product. The result is no one can force you to pirate, you only do it because you want to.

[@ShadwSonic]

@Shinjiduo See previous explanation of why emulation isn't always piracy, and how by that definition I don't pirate games.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@ShadwSonicIf you got that out of that sentence. I have no idea what to tell you.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

The emulator is done if they (Yuzu) have used proprietary code

[@ShadwSonic]

Oof... Nintendo has really goofed here. See, I've always been of the opinion that emulation is perfectly acceptable _as long as the console's creators aren't selling that game for that console anymore._ This means that, while emulation of _classic_ systems would be perfectly fine, _modern_ systems that still make money are not. However, by trying to strike down _all_ emulation via this lawsuit, Nintendo failing here (and when they make such easily disprovable claims like "emulation is solely for piracy" that's easier than it would be otherwise) is likely going to set the unwanted precedent that emulation is always allowed _period._ That's... concerning, to say the least.

[@sonicsega1699]

does gun ban laws come to anyone's mind?

[@EarnestGamer]

Except you have a right to bear arms... You do not have a right to use or make an emulator, especially when in doing so you infringe on someone else's right to private property...

[@trunguss]

​@@EarnestGamerso... I don't have the right to use Switch Online? Since it gives me access to emulators?

[@trunguss]

​@@EarnestGamerPlus, making an emulator doesn't infringe on anyone's property.

[@EarnestGamer]

@@trunguss right, you have "permission" or license to use NSO emulators. You do not have permission to use unlicensed emulators. So it's not your right to use emulators, but you can have consent from the owner of the IP.

[@trunguss]

@@EarnestGamer No, you are confused. Emulators in general, licensed or not are legal. Circumventing copy protection is illegal. (and that's a stupid law, but that's besides the point) You could say that Yuzu requiring the use of keys to decrypt software even if said keys are not provided by Yuzu could be circumventing copy protection... But that has nothing to do with the legality of emulators. All that needs to be done to get around that is have the games need to be decrypted outside of Yuzu. Emulators are legal. You are wrong about them infringing copyright.

[@jonathanplooij3666]

didn't nintendo remove the 3ds and wii (u) shop. (making emulation the only way to play some of the games)

[@Yamartim]

The "illegally hacking their systems to get prod keys" makes no sense to me, you sold the hardware to me and that includes the keys to play games included with it, there should not be any law prohibiting me of doing what i want to my own hardware including extracting the keys that came with it to use them how they were intended to be used (to decrypt my own games) in whatever system i want use them on including a pc

[@EarnestGamer]

Did you read the EULA when you purchased your console?

[@purelogarithm]

@@EarnestGamer They should also read what the DMCA permits and what it doesn't. Yuzu isn't bound by the EULA here, it's the DMCA and it's use of encryption breaking tools.

[@Yamartim]

@@EarnestGamer no and no one should respect EULAs in the first place, they're not meant for users to actually agree with as they're not reasonably readable Also breaking eula is not even illegal and at most it gives Nintendo the right to brick my console if they want, but the hardware is still mine and it's my right to do whatever with it

[@EarnestGamer]

@@purelogarithm Of course Yuzu isn't bound by EULA, they aren't users in this case. My comment was pointed at OP from this specific comment.

[@EarnestGamer]

@@Yamartim You're well within your right to do whatever you want with the hardware, use it or toss it, it's your call. What you don't have a right to tamper with is the software, which is protected by copyright law.

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@Scerttle]

Isn't the whole framework for getting games to run on Steam Deck emulation? Nintendo's playing a dangerous game here.

[@johnlucas1543]

+Scerttle A game they're gonna win.

[@Scerttle]

@@johnlucas1543A wild prospect. I wonder if Valve and others that use commercial emulators are just gonna sit by and let it happen.

[@johnlucas1543]

@@Scerttle What are they gonna do about it? Stand down just like they did when Nintendo cautioned Valve over Dolphin being sold on Steam? Emulation is covered but Piracy is not. You'd be best chastising Yuzu because they're screwing up the entire emulation scene with their BS. They got WAAAY too cocky & it's gonna bite them in the butt.

[@johnlucas1543]

@@Scerttle Well. The conclusion came fast, didn't it? From Polygon: *"Nintendo wins $2.4M in Switch emulator lawsuit, Yuzu to shut down"* (March 4, 2024) My God, Nintendo moves fast, don't they? I wasn't ready for this speed. But as I said before, this is a game Nintendo's gonna win.

[@Scerttle]

@@johnlucas1543I'm just glad the Yuzu folks didn't take it to court. At least this way Nintendo hasn't set any legal precedent.

[@foxeygamer87sonic]

After hearing that Nintendo Sued sml For using their characters a.k.a. Mario plushies, I don't think I want to make Mario videos On my channel

[@baconburgeronly3089]

Didnt they settle out of court?

[@RhythmGrizz]

They sure did

[@sageofsong]

So since Nintendo has emulators on the Switch (and 3ds and Wii U etc), does this mean that Nintendo is acting unlawfully by their own definition?

[@saricubra2867]

TLDR, the only REAL reason why they ended Yuzu and Citra (same company) is because people leaked Tears of The Kingdom before launch, was all over the place on Yuzu's blogs, the emulator itself had a lot of visibility combined with paywalls on Patreon... Easy target for Nintendo's executives and lawyers.

[@alcoke1208]

No new games if you know theres no money in it. Kids... the line is at the current gen, i know waiting sucks, but the reward is the freedom. You can't have both. Otherwise Nintendo wont make them. Dont outfish the pond and then blame the lake

[@the1-upclub98]

That opening statement though smh. Cars can be used for illegal purposes, so why not just ban all cars? /s

[@Dormat25]

Emulators can be used by developers to learn the platform for which they will be creating new content

[@R1IY2N]

Yuzu lost

[@lpfan4491]

They did not, they folded before it even went to court.

[@anthonyguerrero4612]

This lawsuit is a joke, something their legal team put together in 5 min. Clearly meant to waste the dev's time & money. So in Nintendo's opinion, because Yuzu can potentially be used for illegal activity that justifies blanket banning it and any emulation like it. That's insanity, completely absurd. By that logic I can't use anything ever because it could potentially be used for illegal activity. Not my forks or spoons, not my coffee mug, not my computer. Nothing. I think Yuzu's lawyers can easily disprove all their claims if they just highlight the absurdity of it. And factual falseness.

[@EarnestGamer]

Yeah, sure! Nintendo is just grasping at straws here. Not like their rights to private property are in danger of being infringed, making all of their assets worthless, thanks to a piece of "unlawful" software that enables common users to do something only a bunch of well trained people would have to spend years perfecting, effectively maximizing their impact and alleged damages to the company... Right?

[@Shinjiduo]

Keep seeing what you want to see. It is about the preponderance of uses, not what a product is capable of being used for. There is a reason kitchen knives are handled by law differently than switchblades and especially guns. Kitchen knives are 99% + of the time to prepare food and switchblade or gun is used 99% + of the time to train how to kill or to kill. Emulators whether you like it or not are used way more often for pirating than home brew and archival purposes. The case will to a large degree hinge on how compelling Nintendo's evidence of a million plus copies of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom were played prior to release.

[@apolloforabetterfuture4814]

This is a disasterous lawsuit for gamers and game preservation. Piracy is now more than ever a moral necessity

[@RACH90810]

they will drop the lawsuit after they finished the new console.

[@RhythmGrizz]

Nope

[@Pingwn]

Emulators are used to allow players to play old games completely legally in platforms like GOG. Rather than making a port for every game they just bundle it with an emulator and this is completely legal because it is with permission of the copy rights holders and indeed they get the money from you buying the game. In fact, if I am not mistaken the Switch uses emulsion itself for old Nintendo games. So saying that an emulator is inherently "unlawful" is not just untrue but also hypocritical.

[@anthonywalker6268]

It's not like you could just rerelease old games and people would pay full price plus inflation.

[@Shinjiduo]

Not really when media is too available for too long people just let it sit in the clearance bin, whether physical or digital.

[@johnlucas1543]

+anthonywalker They already have. It was called the Virtual Console & now it's called Nintendo Switch Online. They also release various remakes & reissues from time to time. The only complaint you would be right about is timing of re-releases. But they do that to build the back catalog's value. Nintendo is ALL about value. They don't want you to take their old games for granted. They love their creations that much.

[@fillerbunnyninjashark271]

You actually defending Nintendo charging people monthly to play games people already own

[@johnlucas1543]

@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 They can do what they want. It's their games. They got it like that where people see the value in their old catalog that they'll pay the price. It's a nice value-add for the service which gets better & better with each addition like F-Zero 99. I HATED that Nintendo gave in & started charging for online (damn XBox) but at least they're keeping it cheap & giving you enough to make it worthwhile. Most people agree which is why NSO is a popular service as far as subscription services go. New kids are born everyday. Nintendo will CONTINUE to employ the Disney Vault method to introduce these classics to newer generations over & over. The games have eternal value. They created them that way.

[@joshsmyth130]

can we just equate emulators and guns. They COULD be used unlawfully but not exclusivly.

[@punkDTH]

So whats the Main use of guns? There also Out There xD , and If Emulation gets illegal what will Nintendo do with its virtual machnies Like N64 in Switch. Its the use of Emulation in a legal way and i think the Script within also Passes the Copy protection of each rom

[@alcoke1208]

People notice when you used a gun to rob the store, and the law goes down on you extra for it. And you have to have serial number tied to proof of your purchase to it. this gun equating dumb, and as far a stretch as me mentioning how i can tell youre vaccinated

[@SkylerLinux]

So Nintendo is in the wrong, as there is established Case-Law saying that Emulators are Legal

[@jacksonavino1524]

So I can’t play wind waker or ocarina of time or any old Zelda games

[@taru6342]

How about building in piracy checks into emulators

[@EarnestGamer]

They won't, because then nobody would use their software... That's the whole issue here.

[@90sNath]

​@EarnestGamer well Nintendo has emulators on their own system? People don't stop using their's do they?

[@Socioromanticism]

​@@90sNathYou're right on a very specific point, but it's not a irrelevant point. Nintendo uses emulators but not to play pirated software. Most emulation, although probably not to only play pirated software, is used mostly to play software that has been 1) pirated and/or 2) unlawfully accessed software. So even though you're right, Nintendo gets to create and use emulators for its own software. I think that's so clear, it feels borderline redundant I would need to say it. Not sure why you brought that up.

[@Psy500]

@@EarnestGamer Emulation in this case goes back to 1982 with Coleco allowing users to play Atari 2600 games on their console and it wasn't about piracy it was about Coleco saying why buy an Atari 2600 when our hardware plays those games and ours. Even Bleem primary customer bought games as it primary customer was Dremcast users that wanted to run Playstation discs on their Dreamcast.

[@LillyP-xs5qe]

If they did, then it be easily broken and be kinda silly cause it will break on homebrew stuff, and might be flagged on local backups

[@MegaManNeo]

I'm pretty certain Nintendo will win this and then things look real dark and ugly for all things preservation. Sad part about this? Other than emulator devs quitting their work, people keep buying Nintendo stuff as soon as the next Mario, Zelda or Pokémon arrives.

[@Shinjiduo]

Are emulator devs getting paid? If not, why should we feel bad if they stop making emulators? They can use their skills to make games instead!

[@EarnestGamer]

And why should people, not buy Nintendo stuff as soon as it comes out?! Are you implying emulation has the objective to hurt Nintendo financially? Good thing they're suing then...

[@MegaManNeo]

@@ShinjiduoWhat is your special skill? Are you good in drawing? If so, became a worker at construction sides and build new homes.

[@MegaManNeo]

​@@EarnestGamerAre you implying that it's good that Nintendo sues them? If so, you are really naive and shortsighted regarding the subject as emulation is far more than just playing Super Mario World on a PC. Emulation is about understanding a machines functionality and to bring compatibility onto which follows preservation. Preservation which Nintendo would never grant us even for their own software catalog which gets less and less accessible the more time passes. Want a simple example? Compare the Wii's Virtual Console offerings with the few games Nintendo gives you with Nintendo Switch Online AFTER you subscribed to a service that costs a monthly fee. We are living in a capitalistic society and these companies aim to maximize their profits to grow and please shareholders. But why should I agree for personal use how I use their products? If you think otherwise, pay me 100€ for every single letter written with this reply because you wasted my human lifespan and energy.

[@Shinjiduo]

@@MegaManNeoMaking emulators is just engineering and coding. Moreover I imagine these people are engineers in their day jobs so they could just apply their skill to some other hobby.

[@Kuhazan]

Instead of burning money in court against some company that will not pay them whatever they think they might win since they have no money Nintendo could just I dunno release specific games on PC or other platforms and people will buy them. The reason they have such a emulation problem is because they keep releasing with the bare minimum protection and weak hardware with games running at 15-25 FPS.

[@johnlucas1543]

+Kuhazan PC has no right to Nintendo's productions. PC didn't invest time, money, manpower, research, development into anything Nintendo makes. So PC does not get to enjoy the fruits of Nintendo's labor. That's how things work, Kuhazan. Since 1985, Nintendo has RULED the ENTIRE Videogame Industry. Ever since they brought their Family Computer AKA Famicom to America as the Nintendo Entertainment System, they have RULED this industry without cessation. Almost 40 years straight now. Sure, you saw some disruptions here & there from players like NEC, Sega, Sony, Apple, & such but this is STILL their industry which is why they are the ONLY ones not laying off anyone in this new-age Market Crash. PC has resented this reality for the SAME 40 years but they can't beat Nintendo. They never will. The Personal Computer will NEVER defeat the Family Computer. The PC will NEVER defeat the FC. The Videogame Console should not EXIST today. Everything was supposed to go to PC after the Crash of 1983. But Nintendo is the reason why the Videogame Console endures. The NES killed the PC market in the 1980s. Ever since that time, PC game makers have to go to Consoles to make money. It's still like that today. Valve gave you a port in the storm with Steam but Steam is a Virtual Console which learned its game from the Actual Console. Where do you think that 30% cut comes from? Microsoft = PC & XBox is a trojan horse for PC. Microsoft was able to trick Sony into falling into their traps & now PlayStation dissolves itself by putting its games on PC. Microsoft eliminates Sony as a result of this move. But Microsoft can't affect Nintendo. Sony was never the Core of this thing anyway. Just another competitor. It will be Nintendo who puts Microsoft in line alongside PC. Microsoft just inadvertently helped Nintendo eliminate one of its fiercest competitors. This only makes them stronger & more able to dismiss PC. Nintendo had the guts to take it to Tablet PC AKA the Mobile market starring Apple & Google. Nintendo won the fight against Freemium, the biggest threat to their business model yet. None of the Mobile chiefs put a direct challenge to Nintendo by becoming developers, publishers, as well as platform/marketplace owners. Only indirect challenges by being a passive platform/marketplace owner. Valve LOOKS like they wanna get froggy with the Steam Deck but they won't put it on the mass market because they know what Nintendo did to Sony. Nintendo's murdering of the PlayStation Vita was BRUTAL. The Only One in this industry who can command FULL PRICE of their games & consoles in SUSTAINED FASHION is Nintendo of Kyoto, Japan. They're the RULERS of this industry & PC can only touch their greatness through bootleg.

[@blisphul8084]

​@@johnlucas1543even without emulation, PC has a lot of great exclusives. Sure it's even better with emulation, but there's plenty of great games without it.

[@chibi2239]

It's not to get money out of them, it's to send a message to others to screw off and stop. And I hate this argument. Even if they had the best console ever, that would not MAGICALLY stop people pirating and emulating. People are still broke and don't want to pay. And they'll never put their games on PC. Having exclusives, especially THEIR exclusives, is what makes people buy their stuff in the first place.

[@johnlucas1543]

@@blisphul8084 Absolutely correct. So why do so many folks on PC have this thirst for Nintendo games? If you were REALLY having fun with PC exclusives, you wouldn't even CARE about anything Nintendo makes. They would be irrelevant to you. You would in gaming heaven on your PC, right? Yet somehow, they keeeeeeeep trying to meddle with Nintendo products. Does this mean they're really not having as much fun on PC as they claim?

[@johnlucas1543]

@@chibi2239 The oddest thing about these PC Pirates is if you have the money to have a PC that can run 4K/8K 120 FPS/360 FPS with all the Ray Charles-tracing & graphical power available... ...why is it so hard to spend a little $60 for a Nintendo game & $350 max for a Nintendo console? It doesn't make sense to have such a beefy hardware setup but cry broke for relatively cheaper games & consoles, does it. And besides why aren't these guys on PC satisfied with their PC games to begin with? Why would they care about anything Nintendo makes if they had the superior games? Are their PC games really that boring? Do they live up to the hype they say it does? Well, the answer is obviously not because Nintendo games are THE HOTTEST games to pirate on PC. And thus they AGREE with Nintendo that Nintendo games are the MOST VALUABLE. What that does is DEVALUES PC games & the PC platform altogether. But they never see that.

[@RhythmGrizz]

Then there's nothing to worry about, and they'll lose the suit soundly. Update: Tropic Haze admitted themselves that their platform was used for excessive piracy. Check their official statement. RIP bozo

[@isasalafi1314]

I see why I started hating Nintendo as I got older and moved to PS. 🙄

[@chibi2239]

I love how half these comments are "HA! Checkmate Nintendo! If all emulation is banned, then so are yours!" Like...do y'all really think THEIR emulators aren't under copyright or trademark protection? Like.. that they really wouldn't think of that? X3 they aren't stupid.

[@trunguss]

Yeah, I'm guilty of using this argument when lazy. It's definitely a strawman.

[@Psy500]

@@trunguss Nintendo's emulator can run unlicensed roms through injecting the ROM, holders of those games could in theory then sue Nintendo's virtual console for making it viable to pirate their games by Nintendo's own logic as how is Yuzu responsible for misuse of their emulator but Nintendo not.

[@TheAtariSan]

I might be a Arch Linux user, but i am one of the biggest pirate around with 17 NAS full of hdd custom made with debian 11

[@TheAtariSan]

I don't care about copyright, i used to be poor and now my mission's to upload daily

[@LD0y]

Yuzu do the same as atmosphere so that means on N😂ninjas next?😳🤔 the user is the one that provide keys not yuzu or atmosphere.

[@LillyP-xs5qe]

Indeed, I got yuzu on my pc and I used keys from my homebrew old switch, wanted save backups, so hacked it, if anyone forcing piracy to happen it's Nintendo for blocking my switch from getting updates and downloading games, so buying games is the inferior option Also I'm pretty sure they don't sale AM2R and Simpsons hit n Run on the switch in any official ways