No-Code is Trash

[@FlutterFlow]

Continue this discussion in person at the FlutterFlow Developer Conference (FFDC) on Sept 17 in NYC. We're offering free tickets to folks in this KZbin chat until Thurs, Aug 29. To register, visit ffdc.io. During checkout, click the button "Do you have a promo code?" and enter the code ffdc24-ff-YbV3 to get a free ticket! The event will be livestreamed on KZbin as well!

[@budgetarms]

Damn, never used flutter nor flutterflow, but this video was nice and interesting to say the least

[@wandering3ngineer]

Would it be fair to call this an updated version of visual studio or flash or similar with its gui widgets tools except with the cloud subscription and with Flutterflow team watching.

[@user-kt0jl90sfwj8cb]

A proprietary platform cannot be the next iteration of the development interface. But it can inspire open source developers to create their own one.

[@IamBlue.]

Facts

[@sovenok-hacker]

Ya

[@sovenok-hacker]

Very wise words ;)

[@fat4eyes]

Open source developers making an interface for humans. Looks like you haven't paid attention to the past 40 years of failure. Any halfway decent user interface used on an actual open source anything was made by a for profit, because open source treats UI designers like second class citizens, if that.

[@IamBlue.]

​@@fat4eyes Yes, many open source projects don't have great UI. But there are certainly some that do. (Godot, Meshroom etc)

[@Kumarms96]

Let's leave everything about no code aside.... Did anyone notice that most of the tutorials on this channel are taught by this voice? So i finally came to know that this person is the who made excellent flutterflow tutorial videos... Let's be thankful to him...

[@Frank_van_Puffelen]

🙏👏

[@koosdeklerk1174]

Yeah, I want to hire him to do my voice overs!

[@pjc825]

Yes I love all his tutorial videos, does anyone know his name?

[@Mhddhn]

@@pjc825 John Higgins

[@tokach]

​@@pjc825 his name is Frank, he is here few comments above 😊

[@millbrick]

>new step in code development, incredible results >look inside >scratch

[@Ermageeerd]

lol

[@UeharaKeitaro上原恵太郎]

Or Dreamweaver lmao😂

[@jakehadley4044]

This is probably the best sales pitch for flutterflow out there, and I don't even want to use it yet lol

[@XxDidkox]

My thoughts exactly

[@fisshbone]

Same lol. I’m over here searching to see if they’re publicly traded so I can throw some money in to them 😂

[@Mike-xw4gm]

Don't use it for a serious project. This is hobby for high-school kids

[@DamilolaOlowoyo]

@@Mike-xw4gm Why?

[@UeharaKeitaro上原恵太郎]

@@DamilolaOlowoyoit’s Dreamweaver 2.0. It’s like a worse version of scratch, flutter flow and other no code are just toys bruh

[@gladsondube]

I've always find it weird to call myself a "no-code" developer

[@eMeriPartners]

It’s like a “no-cook” Chef

[@hostbybits-webhostingforre6845]

Yes, because 'nocode' is a misleading term. Even so-called nocode tools rely on code behind the scenes

[@majweezy]

I just say programmer lmfaoo thats what it really is

[@dedeus_ferdinand]

You are a middle abstraction developer

[@NickYaggie]

You’re a developer

[@ymirfrostgiant]

When the best marketing strategy is a direct frontal attack on your worst insecurities.

[@abiofficial-ws7pn]

I didn't understand this. Please explain.

[@JullianLue]

I'm thinking the same 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@user-kt0jl90sfwj8cb]

GUI is not always better than CLI. For certain activities CLI is better. For example working with folders and files in CLI can be more convenient in certain circumstances.

[@yerenzter]

It depends on the use case, that's why we developers want to create a user-friendly and convenient application with the help of GUI especially for the non-technical users that's makes the system is for everyone not only us.

[@yewo.m]

I think one of the real benefits of CLI is easy automation, using scripts

[@HansBezemer]

I have terminals on speed dial. Can't do without it. Ever tried to perform an action across a whole bunch of files with a GUI?

[@IllusionistsBane]

Like mass-renaming files? I've done that with a Bash Script before.

[@aidenlilley1319]

sorta missing the forest for the trees here. point is to compare the abstraction / development between text based and graphical interfaces.

[@venaautos]

Omg a face to the voice of all the tutorials! You are a legend!!

[@apprehensivetoe9811]

I was going to say the same thing😀

[@Helio_Gaita]

Nobody: Absolutely nobody: The guy in the video tutorial: "Beautiful"

[@David_tommy]

​@@Helio_Gaitacan't believe am not the only one who hears that 😂😂

[@golden_iris07]

I think there's a space for an update that would allow the code to be exported, get some modifications and can upload it back to FF, so that we can keep building on FF

[@Pankomentator]

You can export the code, modify it and host on firebase

[@brianmutiso1003]

@@Pankomentatorcan you import back the code to Flutterflow?

[@Pankomentator]

No you push it to firebase hosting

[@tomikun8057]

​@@Pankomentatorthen what the hell is the point

[@Aclypsa]

You can export the code with a paid subscription. However, I would like the option to update code in the platform without having to export it. I think if they can get to something similar to Squarespace they will have hit gold. Right now it still feels geared towards experienced developers. But they get frustrated with the difficulty in customizing and the inexperienced get frustrated with the time it takes to learn this platform.

[@FrederickHenriquez-q9v]

I recently said that FlutterFlow was looking to rebrand itself as a “Visual Development Environment” and people were amazed even tho that’s what FF currently is.

[@Scudmaster11]

Visual programming is better then pure generated code

[@Aclypsa]

Yes… and a person that develops in FF is a “Visual Developer”.

[@reza2kn]

I mean yeah, you can call it whatever you want, but those issues you brought up yourself STILL APPLY. FF still gives out Spaghetti Code, still doesn't allow you to export & change the final code, and then bring it back and continue building in FF, the web apps running on it are PAINFULLY slow, etc. that's why I mostly look at it as an MVP design tool for only mobile apps. I hope this changes soon, because I hate having to work with a bunch of code in a bunch of HTML, CSS, Next.JS files for a super simple web app dashboard.

[@Pankomentator]

Slow rendering of wep app home page is a killer.

[@neanda]

give 'em an inch, and they'll want a yard. make use of the tools rather than complaining about it 'now' cant do yet

[@samfelton5009]

Sounds like someone needs to introduce you to tailwind and htmx 😜

[@PanosPitsi]

Imagine wanting to be called a front end dev and not bothering to learn css. In my uni it’s literally a mandatory lesson for everybody in the first year even if you want to do embedded

[@firefoxmetzger9063]

I am a happy FlutterFlow user, yet I dont like this video. It is branding to distance FF from the term no-code, but this is not how branding works. It also shows that you are not really listening to user feedback :'( Show us large apps that are "proudly build with FlutterFlow", 'proper' tech companies using FF in their production workflow, or simply people building and debugging custom components. This will be far more convincing and better branding than saying "we dont want to be no-code, please dont judge us by this measure". While at it, your users are saying that your abstraction is currently broken. You want to be a low-level abstraction and when it gets in the way you need custom components. The developer experience of these is inferior compared to a dedicated, local IDE setup. People give up and say "thats just typical for a no-code tool". Please don't argue against the symptom, instead fix the underlying issue (and advertise the fix). Also, you don't get to argue against how people receive the message. You get to control what message you send, not how it is understood. This is feedback on how to fix your marketing copy (and improve the product) not an opinion you can argue against.

[@neanda]

it's not so much a branding video, they're explaining the new paradigm

[@CPTZK11]

Your last paragraph is wrong, you can’t fix his marketing copy, you can say how to fix the product. Even if it is a crappy program, his marketing for it is great and will surely get new users, look at the Tesla Cybertruck for example

[@deeplerg7913]

@@neanda "the new paradigm" are you really going to believe all this marketing crap? It's just a more modern Windows Forms.

[@NoneOfyourBusiness468]

They got the money for native programming.

[@ReflexVE]

@@deeplerg7913I was going to say Microsoft Visual Basic. I don't see anything new here, we had this in the late 90s with all the same pros and cons.

[@widgetsflow]

That's how I describe flutterflow when teaching people build apps. A complete no-code/low-code tool doesn't provide this much flexibility, You are trapped in what the platform offers you. Flutterflow is just right. Its basically an enhancements over traditional development we do, and good thing that it follows the same structure and practices as we do in app development. I always found this enhancement truly game changing when we expect to build and ship stuff fast, and for anything that we need out of the box, its just something we can implement without worrying much.

[@RyseupSolutions]

No matter how you want to phrase it, while I love Flutter Flow, it is not suitable for full-on customization at-ease. I rather develop components from scratch, especially if I'm already building something in a "no-code" environment. Just saying.

[@islamhamdi6249]

why not suitable for full-on customization, doesn''t it allow you to buid custom widgets/functions/components? or i am missing something

[@RyseupSolutions]

@@islamhamdi6249 You have the option to create a component, but you are limited to the UX/UI framework. It's not 100% custom. While I understand the premise of the video and I agree with it - it's still a tool that their audience sees as "no-code platform" and if we're honest? It's okay as well. But it's hard to promote it for fully customized applications. It's fantastic for world-class level designs for sure.

[@blisphul8084]

1:08 people did question it, and that's why we mostly use Unicode now for better international language support.

[@shalompraise-jb2st]

To be honest, i was also in the "no code is trash" but the way you explained it, it changes everything and i pretty much done with "i hate no code tools, you cant be a real developer with that" ego

[@fdelgado7777]

I've been developing solutions using Oracle tools for 28+ years, and I started using flutterflow about 6 months ago, definitively is very similar it saves me a lot of time on the GUI development and gives me the control to add code as complex as I need if I export it to VS Code, for me is the best of both words.

[@Go_Reala]

I'm glad they tackled this concept head-on. Def changed my perspective

[@DavidHust]

To help this advance it would be great if FlutterFlow put out videos to help create custom components. Something as basic as creating a component in FF and then being able to add it to a custom widget is not explained. That's brutal because it stops the flow of customization by the user who wants to do more. Waiting for KZbin to do this is an insufficient approach. Many talk about it but not at the level needed, at least by me.

[@ZaheeruddinBabur8]

kzbin.infoRqfjZxKAKgE?si=yjZ5MNjY9XN1G_M5 kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpvTY2CInMpsf6csi=b8YtZTZ3vNws18qG kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4alhGOBe8uqeJYsi=B346yAWak-JWPN5t

[@clarkmakes]

Heres a four-part KZbin video series on creating a FlutterFlow widgets-based custom calendar component you might find useful: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKeTeKWLbLKcmLMsi=UuAZ1vnHMfCrn8g5

[@DavidHust]

@@clarkmakes I misspoke a smidge. I meant to say, how do you create a component and then reference that component when making a custom widget? For example, I have a custom calendar widget but I want to use a component I made that I would like to use as the listview tile. So instead of the regular list view tile, I would like to use the component I made instead.

[@neanda]

@@DavidHust if i understand you correctly, go to the Widgets pallette, then select components, then scroll to the bottom to see the Custom Code Widgets that you can then drag and drop in

[@cdrdan]

This is why James NoCode (oops, there's that word again) is so popular. He shows you what FF doesn't. www.youtube.com/@jamesnocode

[@PavitraGolchha]

RAD or "Rapid Application Development" would be a better way to describe FlutterFlow.

[@guerra_dos_bichos]

RAD would be a better way to describe ALL no-code and low-code tools, no-code/low-code are just Marketing terms there have been visual development tools that required no programming form decades now. The only way I will accept the no-code term is if a major tool released and Gives 0, no support at all to any kind of code, and we all know it's not going to happen

[@tarikjari]

Lie! They tried to create a 100% no-code tool, but over time it turned out to be impossible, so they made concessions ;)

[@victorrono7841]

I clicked on this because no code is trash therefore, my code isn't trash.

[@BoxOutCeltics]

😂

[@PenguinjitsuX]

This is a cool video, but as some other comments have said, I think the future of visual development platforms will be an extension to something like VSCode, or a new IDE entirely that works with any existing code base. One example is Codux, which was a visual IDE for React that could work with any existing react code. Proprietary IDE's never feel like you have full control over the app. I saw in the pricing tier, it's $30 just to download the code, so I will still consider this a "low-code" platform rather than an actual visual development platform. We need more projects like Codux (a visual IDE for react) to come out that still give devs full control of the code, but it is hard to do since these might not make money. There were several projects like Codux before that were open source but eventually dropped. I think it will take a larger company (similar to how Microsoft is now maintaining VSCode) to create something like this that is open and works with any code.

[@avalons343]

I recently watched the last video in the intro "it's a trap...". And left scratching my head. Many of the "limitations" always had a solution. They even mentioned lack.of customizability which was the biggest head scratcher. I design. Everything from scratch and never ran into anything I could not build in FF. It's almost as she fundamentally misunderstood how to use FF...

[@AshvinderSingh-v1x]

Yea somehow that video was suggested to me and I watched that to and thought to myself hmm its been working okay for me. Not perfect but okay with some workarounds and adjustments I still get what I aim for end of the project.

[@blomqvistdigital]

Love this style of videos and explainer. Really good job, keep this style up!

[@fredashay]

Too many companies are being sucked into these proprietary no-code UIs that will be obsolete in 5 years and have to scramble to the next "hot thing," then the next, and the next...

[@johnpekkala6941]

I say a good solution is to use both solutions like they do in Unreal Engine where you have both C++ and a visual language (Blueprint) and can combine them as you wish to get the best of both.

[@mrwoodcat]

I think the tittle should be changed to something like "FlutterFlow Explained | Visual Development Platform" leave the "No-Code is Trash" on the thumbnail only because its for me it makes it look like a rant video while in reality it is very informative

[@cdrdan]

I agree, the "Trash" comment is poorly placed.

[@TomorrowTom1337]

No-code tools should have an export button. For when your app needs to scale and for not being vendor locked. You want to leave when the no-code can't do the stuff you want or handle the numbers etc.

[@FlutterFlow]

We’ve got that! Also you can push straight to GitHub.

[@niel1289]

Well said, i prefer coding at anytime, i hate limitations and unnecessary spending for a feature i could write for free.

[@lel7531]

That video is just a market placement strategy to distance your self from low-code / no code tools which have a bad reputation and standing. Thing is your tool is a low-code / no-code (for all boilerplate things, which is 80% of the work as you said so yourself) whether you want it or not.

[@NoneOfyourBusiness468]

Yes, he didn't address any of the problems that developers are facing. The trash code he mentioned and swiping it away quite fast. Pretty poor defense.

[@saint3818]

Great video! I just started developing an app this summer and with zero app building experience prior, flutter flow has been a god send! It is still not as easy as building a website or using canva, but if it was easy then everyone would be doing it. I truly believe app development will be as easy as creating a website is today soon!

[@user-kt0jl90sfwj8cb]

"Almost no-one today is building compilers". Meanwhile C, C++, D, Zig, Rust, Go, Carbon, Java, C#, and every other interpreted language that is compiled to bytecode under the hood developers: o_o

[@zackbuildit88]

That's not making the compilers, that's using languages that compile. Also, C and C++ straight up aren't interpreted at any step? They're both very much compiled languages

[@pmishraofficial]

Flutterflow is just another way to plan out the ideas, which is what coding is. Writing text isn’t the only way.

[@hostbybits-webhostingforre6845]

Exactly. Coding is not only writing texts.

[@neanda]

well said

[@tomashgrey2211]

Cope😂

[@JiggyJones0]

Coding is the implementation of ideas, not the plan.

[@CPTZK11]

@@JiggyJones0yeah don’t know what the original comment was talking about 😂😂😂 I am a Ui Ux designer, we use figma and wireframes to plan out the ideas the next step after that is to BUILD the idea 😂

[@corpusculus]

My 2 cents: - Testing enviroment and bug detection is too complex - Very detached from data model. Some AI that can detect data model and auto create visual representation on canvas can improve usability

[@alexamado3194]

This is really helpful - Thinking of Flutterflow as a Visual Development Platform really clarifies its place in the market. My favorite line, as they reject being labeled as a "no code platform" is when John says "after all, the development of automobiles was not part of the 'no horse' movement" 😂

[@dublexin1803]

What the FlutterFlow developers have done is basically what has been done before, like Windows Forms for example. Adding VPS to this hodgepodge made FlutterFlow a convenient tool for development, including standard code writing. And again, adding the ability to edit scripts is a huge plus compared to other VPSs

[@tejuskabadi]

Great work, this video was very much needed! I no longer have to explain to people. I will just send them this video! :) Webflow and Flutterflow ♥

[@edgaralcantara425]

I really love this breakdown. I'm a full stack dev, under the impression that flutterflow would just abstract away the flexibility we get from coding our projects. Hoping this is trully not the case. Will try it out ;-)

[@tonyjthegamer1068]

Ngl no code is trash. I am lowkey w coder for websites. I was looking for an alternative to save me time with this stuff and I realized that flutterflow was a completely waist of time. It’s cool how you can connect to database real easy but a pain to design everything. I’ve tried making a login page. I couldn’t even finish it because it was so dang hard how the containers work. Code you can just put in your valves and making the page responsive takes less than 20 seconds. With flutter flow it took me more than 30 mins to make a single container to be responsive. Ngl if you want to build something great use stuff like appwrite or something. All flutterflow is a junky software with pretty ui that is a pain to set up . If you want to create something DONT USE FLUTTERFLOW. REMEMBER THIS COMMENT WHEN YOU START YOUR FIRST PROJECT AND END UP WAISTING AN ENTIRE DAY TRYING TO SET UP A RESPONSIVE CONTAINER. In conclusion, FLUTTERFLOW BELONGS IN THE TOILET. Also forgot to add how slow it is and I’m using a godly computer idk how this junk can barely run on a high end computer.

[@tonyjthegamer1068]

Anyways, the point of this video is to sell you to buy something that is contradicting something true that no code and whatever perspective these people put it in is still garbage. I still would recommend looking on KZbin on how to build stuff with code.

[@Fred-zt5ky]

are you okay man?

[@tonyjthegamer1068]

@@Fred-zt5ky yes flutterflow made me flip on how bad it was i spend way too long on it😭

[@nooneremote7451]

Flutter and Flutter Flow is honestly a cheat code. So happy that we have this tool

[@SALAVEY13]

it's a rollercoster! i was senior java programmer and was amazed that there are nocode tools, that got rid of all unpleasent aspects of codeing, then i got into framer with code components generated by ai, then ai started generating whole node.js projects and it became too complicated again to handle a bit larger projects that are now possible to generate (i have low self esteem) - so flutterflow with low level abstractions can help with managing a button like a button, and not as component with whole spagetty file generated by ai.. i'll try it, say no more!

[@nilanjanbhattacharyya9065]

Your explanation was clear and thorough. Excellent video!

[@justanotherdave.]

I’m a web designer and did front end development in html/css/js before moving to WP block editor, which still requires some code. Coming from that background flutterflow was a pretty steep learning curve for me, so many widgets! It almost felt like going back to designing with tables. I’m getting there slowly though, and It’s the only way I could even hope to complete quite a complex app project. My company let our developer go and didn’t replace him.

[@cidhighwind8590]

So did you use no-code to build your tool that build no-code?

[@FlutterFlow]

stay tuned ;)

[@musicwolf4655]

Of course not, no-code can't do that.

[@world_changers]

You literally just made me feel better about wanting to learn Flutterflow and master it to help build software applications 😊

[@kondekinoe9337]

Don't waste your time. It ain't worth it. Just learn to code and do it yourself

[@wimveldhuis1828]

What a great reflection on FlutterFlow and the positioning within the low/no code area. Love it!

[@nickdalts]

I don't know. I've never looked back after moving from Storyboards to SwiftUI. You're always going to be limited by the no/low-code application, not to mention the lack of version control. For simple, personal projects it's great though

[@ErikeDev]

In my opinion flutterflow is litterly the new world of cross-platform visual coding/programming. A lot of people mad about this cause it became so much easier which means that there will be high competition in the field in their opinion, and they litterly forget that programming is more about the creativity of the programmer and how he can implement the same thing in many different ways & how he can solve the problems that he faces

[@ehsanmafi6546]

Well done! That pop up white text was perfectly executed!! I heard those sound effects!

[@greghutchins468]

This seems to be a product rationale for potential investors. FF needs to develop a beginning to end learning schema for entry level developers.

[@MrMaikeul]

Finally the face behind the best and smoothest tutorials out there! 😅

[@nacholarreta7116]

He has a point, but sadly flutterflow ir more focused on sass (specially on GCP) instead of custom integrations, so the comparation with IDE is not accurate, I would love to see what is the next step of flutterflow if they are going to move in a more abstract way to make the solutions independent to the provider

[@hostbybits-webhostingforre6845]

Yes. They must transit to become a real IDE.

[@FlutterFlow]

Working on it.

[@harrazmasri2805]

thanks to flutterflow, now i get the fundamental concepts of flutter and helps me with coding flutter

[@estefanocampoverde3660]

Fuschia with flutter are the future

[@rohankumarpanigrahi7475]

Fuschia is officially dead. Flutter is still awesome though.

[@estefanocampoverde3660]

@@rohankumarpanigrahi7475 It's obvious that you don't know about the subject, just look at the fact that the project continues to be updated and will be the successor to Android that will also compete with Windows and macOS

[@guccislinger]

I'd suggest to check the spelling of the project name before speculating of its future.

[@estefanocampoverde3660]

@@guccislinger I recommend you read the book zero to one so you can understand it easily.

[@rohankumarpanigrahi7475]

@@estefanocampoverde3660 are you crazy ? Google stopped even chrome port to fuchsia it may be used in the nest devices but based on the ongoing stuff for the past few years fuchsia is not really going to be anything as big as initially advertised. Google has AI as it's priorities at the moment so developing new operating systems looks to be a far fetched thing

[@AlexCJava]

Fantastic explanation! I plan to use it in my next project! Thank you!

[@jorgerangel2390]

This video explains very well why you as a developer should always learn to write code first and you as a client should never make the decition of using any platform before a tech expert evaluates its use case, the only think this platforms are almost always good for is quick protos to show the investors before actually building the product

[@Someone-ct2ck]

Flutter Flow: Please feel like you were using the cmd and we brought you VSCode. The customer: No. What the f?

[@b1n1yam]

The next open-source no-code tool could dominate the market, but the key issue is that apps built with these tools are often tied to their platforms. If these tools allow code to be easily used in code editors, it would eliminate scalability limitations, similar to what we saw with WordPress.

[@natebit8130]

For a moment, I thought you were going to talk about No Code studios, which made the games Observation and Stories Untold. I'll still watch this as I'm interested.

[@victorokezie1208]

This is them being transparent, I saw a video of someone who said she was trying to build a complex app on FlutterFlow and FlutterFlow wasn’t messing up because the app requires some programming as a result of it’s complexity

[@jakehadley4044]

The issue I anticipate having with FF is it will eventually descend into WordPress standards because of the user's desires and requests.

[@FlutterFlow]

We'll ascend 🧗

[@neanda]

@@FlutterFlow i see it

[@petersmythe6462]

The issue I have with no code is that it either "just works" or is at least as logically complex as code would be but with extra steps due to the fact that the thing designed to handle logically complex instructions is, well, code. Look at how complex scenario editor triggers and events are in games?

[@darkwoodmovies]

Code exists as an interface between a computer and the programmer, it's literally as simple as it can possibly be to enable true customization... any "no-code" or "low-code" solution are by their nature a compromise. It's just a slightly adjustable template that somebody else coded for you, and good luck with all other edge cases.

[@trevorfields612]

great video, considering i have a ton of code along side my flutterflow project i’ve always been confused by “programmers” calling it no-code. i’m an engineering not a coder by background and i’ve been able to understand this. i haven’t found one thing i could not implement yet, and i implemented very custom getstream chat setup and custom navigation etc in my main.dart the real magic happens when you need to re-factor a large amount of code. i’ve done massive refactors of very complex parts of my app in a day vs 3-6 days…

[@AshvinderSingh-v1x]

Just like every other language there is a learning curve to it. And yea now and then we got to bare with some imperfected but then again nothing is perfect in the world. Thanks legend for all the video tutorials. You're the best!

[@tamertamertamer4874]

I don’t care about no code. All I want is to be able to build the UI with an UI and I just code the functionality

[@clarkmakes]

It's a difficult thing to be a true forerunner in the evolution of development innovation. Supporting professional devs and designers while appealing to those less proficient in coding and designing is costly and can be frustrating. A dedicated team supporting less proficient customers would be ideal, and as FlutterFlow continues to mature, this will likely become less and less likely. Nevertheless, some of us in the middle of that spectrum stull find joy in the promise and potential of visual development environments of which FlutterFlow is the clear leader.

[@Max_Jean]

I rarely have issues with no code tools. I use dozens by choice. It’s the marketing expectations that get set and the absolute mess that has to get cleaned up after by poor devs forced into these ecosystems

[@parlor3115]

Honestly, if we had a voice command AI that is capable of writing code exactly like you envision it, then I'd totally and completely on board with such technology.

[@guerra_dos_bichos]

there's a reason voice commands flopped as an user interface, and it's not a technical one. we've been able to use voice for 10 years now

[@xurtis]

Abstraction is relative, not absolute. i'd argue that the distinction isn't ' high abstraction' vs 'low abstraction' but 'coarse abstraction' vs 'fine abstraction': with finer abstraction layers, each layer individually introduces a smaller amount of additional semantics and when you work through a level of abstraction (as it can't express your specific design) the effort is reduced. You also end up with greater interoperability with the parts that can be expressed with the higher level of abstraction. The layers also end up easier to understand.

[@xurtis]

but I appreciate the focus on how the tool relates the level of abstraction below it to the level above it and how that relationship and how it is modelled is the interface to the tool. I see many tools/frameworks/libraries suffer from only considering the level of abstraction the construct the only interface and the level they consume as an implementation detail making it near impossible to use the tool when the abstraction it presents can express a design (and where the layer below could but is so disconnected that you have to bypass the abstractions of the tool entirely)

[@jinxerific]

The integration with Backend as service, authentication, and payment is pretty cool I have to be honest... although it feels like a "starting point" when you have to do apps in a week challenge type shit if you repeat these processes every time makes sense. The strongest point is "boilerplate" but once you get it... is done. Integration like Firebase, Supabase or stripe is primarily in used framework they have really little to no interest in making it work on a "for profit, closed and proprietary platform". The biggest disadvantage is that Code based apps are not expensive.

[@lucasleroux8156]

Ok I'm not a No-Code Developper anymore. I'am now a Visual Developper. That's sick😎

[@Preinstallable]

I can 100% concur that lower level graphics APIs such as Win32 are difficult to work with - not only that - lower level programs often are not compatible with other platforms.

[@vladarino]

So this is the famous voice behind the FlutterFlow University videos. He's the FlutterFlow Bro.

[@junjh4232]

Bro tackled the stubbornness of people so well, Great Jobb

[@C.S.Argudo]

Oh my god this is a game engine approach to making apps... i thought making apps in godot would make me a freak but this seems like its justifying that idea

[@annieincarnated]

Actually the best tool I've found...definitely not a no code! Definitely need code or some background in it 😊. Love using it

[@username7763]

Text is the best interface for building applications. This pre-dates the invention of the electronic computer. Computational theory was developed before we had machines that could compute. A computer and the instructions that go into a computer are mathematics. We've had symbols and notations for mathematics for quite a long time. While mathematics isn't limited to equations, for example we have geometry and graphs, text really is the best way to express math, especially when it is a large amount of instructions. This goes back thousands of years! Do we really think "modern" computers suddenly changes that in 10 - 20 years time?

[@Jonathan-o1h9x]

This is so true that we are changing into an easier to use Text interface with LLMs and Easier to AI

[@neerajvats5292]

In the era of gold rush they are selling shovels. 😎

[@SweetVenom1997]

Thank you for reigonal discounts guys! I am not a coder and I would never have been able to try it without them.

[@georgebeierberkeley]

Sure seems like Visual Basic for the web!

[@_GhostMiner]

*"no code" is like "free candy" on a white van*

[@JohnHall]

I don't trash no-code regarding scalability. I trash it because it is built upon data sources that are designed first. Low code tools allow you to flip the design toward UX first and data designs...someday. Particularly in enterprise development where business units have never designed an app in their life. They need to see and imagine how an app will work before they can confirm that is what they need. So UX is first, which then allows a data model to form up later.

[@cdrdan]

Speaking for yourself. :/

[@KathySierraVideo]

I'm old enough to lived through the "nobody will EVER take Java seriously" mid '90's No matter how people might feel about Java TODAY, it went from a silly 'bouncing head' demo to running some of the largest, most complex back-ends in the world. I've learned to be cautious about dismissing things too early, and yeah, "no code" does not do FF justice, but tbh I really don't care how it's defined because I am having too much fun getting things done with it :) Also, it's nice to see that you are NOT, as I once assumed, an AI voice-over for tutorials but an Actual Human. (well, at least it seems like it... I reckon a year from now it'll be hard to know for certain 😳)

[@4sxS307cAW]

The thing is “no-code” is up against the AI and only one of them will get out alive. Why would we ever need “no code” platform when we can “no code” by letting AI write them. let that sink in :)

[@majweezy]

great video makes me prod to be a flutterflow dev and honestly this guys deserves just as much credit as the platform his educational speaking and detailing of the platform is truly amazing glad he's getting more camera time. Honestly I'm glad this conversation is happening a lot of people are confused with what "no-code" actually means

[@luizgustavs]

A bold claim (about no-code) from a platform that still restricts AndroidManifest editing, which is ironic, considering the need for customization sometimes.

[@Iamabdulquddus]

Finally the team replied all those people who don't understand the vision.

[@AdamEgret]

How do these apps scale?

[@AlfaRomeoFox]

Every great idea challenge people afraid of evolution. If it wasn´t for FF I could have spent years, instead of months, but I would have make my apps anyway. Keep the good job and you!!!!! specially you!!! have make knowledge so important for individuals like me. Yes, it still a long way to go, it will always be, but as far as you have the support of your customers and keep hear them and develop support for them, the company will grow.

[@balazssebestyen2341]

I don't know Flutter, but this was very convincing about the general topic of abstraction and low-code.

[@CPTZK11]

Great video honestly great way to put it although still not fully understanding the abstraction level part 😂

[@TONY-1080]

Criticizing no-code tools in favor of one's own tool can indeed be a waste of time. A more productive approach would be to understand the advantages and limitations of each method, and to choose the most appropriate tool for each situation.

[@Hyperboid]

Can't believe you managed to get me to watch a 10 minute sales pitch. Good Job? Too bad I'm very opposed to proprietary IDEs

[@QuangNguyen-ep6mx]

The goal for no-code solutions is not to make the best product, but to make a product as good as it can get in a small amount of time. If you ever want to build the best product, you need programmers and lots of time.

[@anisim]

Saying that no-code is good without showcasing a functional, normal-looking app created with it isn't convincing. So, as I understand it, now that FF is here, there's still no real app to show.

[@pjc825]

Who is the guy in this video, does anyone know his name? I love all the FlutterFlow tutorials he has done 💯😃👍

[@z3thon]

If I don’t have to use code to build my apps, you are a No Code tool. Therefore, by definition, you are a No Code tool but you do offer better features than other No Code tools do, and that’s why I like your No Code tool more. ❤

[@ChristophBackhaus]

I think it would help and that is what we are doing is a course that explains the code that is built in the back and fully expose it.