NO EARTH LIGHTING. What to do if you replace a light fitting with no earth and comply with the law.

This video will show you how to comply with BS7671 Wiring Regulations, the Electricity at Work Regulations and the Health and Safety at Work Act if you are asked to install a metallic luminaire with exposed conductive parts to a lighting circuit with no cpc or earth. Two acceptable methods are shown and the relevant extracts from the Wiring Regulations are given to show you how these methods comply with your legal duties as regards health and safety of the users of the installation.
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[@learnelectrics4402]

SEE ALL - To view a list of all our LearnElectrics videos, click on the link below. There are many videos on many electrical topics including Installation, Part P, 18th Edition, Testing, Certification, Lighting, Sockets, Ring Circuits and much more. kzbin.info/door/YaJQnpO4XAp0yCgqzMkmfA

[@1976vikin]

Happy days, this 8 min video has just saved me a ton of time of looking through the big bad book of regs. Great video, clear and to the point. Keep up the good work

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thanks Trevor. I really appreciate your comments and really happy the video helped. Lots more on the way. Dave.

[@zippymo672]

Great video and very informative. Thanks for posting. 👍👍👍

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thanks for the positive comments. You're going to do good at this. Electrics has given me work every day for over 45 years. Everybody needs an electrician at some point. Dave

[@danielteyehuago1633]

Wow! This is very informative, thanks for sharing it with us Dave. It worth it and the best tutorial on the topic for me...wtc

[@learnelectrics4402]

Fantastic. Thanks for the support. Dave.

[@ricorix3439]

Forgetting about the legality of it, and focusing solely on the safety part, there is a 3rd way! The way we found is to buy a double insulated ceiling lamp, those don't require earthing and they are also metal and nicely looking. The hard part: finding a double insulated lamp! We accidentally found one at B&Q, and was only when we saw there was no earthing and googled the "2 squares symbol" that we came across this marvel (seves you 400 pounds for an electrician to pull an earth cable from your box)! I think everyone should know this!

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thanks Rico, yes, most sparkies know that class two lights are available. The trouble is, the customer wants a really fancy on that is usually class 1. Thanks for the input, really appreciated and keep those comments coming. Dave.

[@rajveersamra7101]

Really insightful video. Thank you! I've just purchased a house which we have found to not have an earth wire and a very old fuse box. One question I do have is whether it is unsafe to live in a house without an earth wire and should we do a new rewire of the house or can we just put a new fuse box in on the current wiring? A full rewire is very expensive currently. Any advice would be appreciated.

[@learnelectrics4402]

I would suggest asking a competent electrician to look at it. If its very old, you may be on a TT in which case he can help and advise on a rewire. If it is TN with no earth at all to the instalation, then the supplier will need to be contacted. Yes, it can be dangerous to have no earth. And if your installation is unsafe, remember that an expensive rewire is still cheaper than a funeral. Thanks for watching. Dave.

[@TellyWatcher1997]

Thank you for the video; certainly prefer this to the "Mansplaining" I've had to put up with from certain tradespeople!

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thank you Laura. I try my best. Thanks for watching. Dave.

[@nathanlucas6465]

very helpful video. thanks :D

[@learnelectrics4402]

Glad it was helpful, thanks for supporting the channel.

[@michaelcostello6991]

Bonding can also be carried out using pipe work within the roof space. This can be useful where perhaps an electric shower or a lighting point requires bonding. Providing the pipe work is bonded elsewhere in the building it is perfectly acceptable just to bond from the shower or the lighting point onto the nearest pipe. If in doubt a test should be carried out to ensure that the pipe is bonded and of course the correct clamps and labels must be used. Is this article correct about earthing a lighting circuit ??

[@learnelectrics4402]

This video is about earthing Michael. We cannot use a copper water or gas pipe as an earth conductor or cpc. Thanks for watching. Dave.

[@hamsterminator]

Just tried replacing a bathroom light fitting to metallic type and a bit deflated to discover there is no earth in the fitting. Our house was rebuilt in the 90s so I’m surprised it’s set up this way.

[@learnelectrics4402]

Common in the 60s and 70s, it is not always easy to find a route back to the CU for a new earth. Thanks for watching. Dave.

[@mannyc5438]

Thank you - Great video, very clear and helpful! Regarding additions and alterations, I understand that bonding must be adequate before any additions or alterations go ahead. What about simple alterations/additions, such as replacing a light fitting on an existing installation which does not have RCD protection at all? Is it possible to carry out simple alterations and NOT upgrade the consumer unit with an RCD/RCBO, provided that all other tests on this circuit are satisfactory? Or would an RCD CCU need to be installed before signing off this simple alteration, in order for the circuit to comply with the 18th Edition of the Wiring Regulations?

[@learnelectrics4402]

If you work on a circuit then that circuit must comply with the current Regs when you finish it. Just changing a light bulb doesn't count. generally, if you need to use a screwdriver or other tools to do the job, then it needs to be to current standards when you finish. Hope this helps. Dave.

[@jj-hn2ll]

Handy video , just subscribed

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thank you. Glad we could help. Dave

[@alig7800]

THANK YOU

[@learnelectrics4402]

You're very welcome. Lots more to come.

[@Cmdad]

Lighting circuit's here do not have earth, however I do for example have ring socket in loft (with earth) can I connect up to this same earth which is part of ring main, and feed an earth to each luminaire? The lightswitches might be tricky, but probably doable. - what would be tricky is finding a route all the way back to the consumer unit in the garage for the earth bonding

[@learnelectrics4402]

Hi Gary. The UK Regs like to have a dedicated L N E for each breaker or fuse. No earth lighting in the UK was introduced to save copper for all plastic fittings when there was a copper shortage. Dave.

[@michaelhoare5291]

@@learnelectrics4402 I appreciate this Q&A was 2 year's ago, but if there's no way back to the CU/FB, without majorly ripping the house apart, surely earthing a pre-1966 lighting ring to the mains earth ring at various convenient points, such as a socket or junction box, is better/safer than having no lighting earth at all?

[@catchxxii4430]

I’ve got a new led light (plastic housing) for my garage that has no earth. I need to add a 3 core cable to the light so I can add a plug and ultimately plug it into an extension lead when I’m in the garage. Do I just wrap the earth from the 3 core with electrical tape or pop it in a termination block? Cheers

[@learnelectrics4402]

If it's a class 2 fitting with a double insulated logo then no earth required. In which case ideally use two core cable the same as electric lawnmowers or as you suggest, terminate the earth into a choc block and insulated. Make sure that whatever plug it is connected to is RCD protected.

[@catchxxii4430]

​@@learnelectrics4402 cheers pal. i bought an rcd plug/socket protector to ensure all is safe! Only issue is my garage is more than 50m. i cannot find an extension that long and didnt want to double up on extension cables. any thoughts of where to source a 65m cable on a reel? i believe over 50m might not be recommended but i dont have an option as the garage is in a compound round the corner :(

[@shethmehulk1]

I had engineer visited for EICR report who says I need to change ceiling wiring (which has only plastic holders and no metal) as it doesn't have earthing cable. Is this right?

[@learnelectrics4402]

The Regs say that if the installation is still as it was when it was installed and is still functioning correctly and safely, then there is no requirement to bring the wiring up to current standards. Plastic ceiling roses are class 2 and didn't need an earth back in the early 70's. Whether your installation meets this or not, only you can decide. Good luck. Dave.

[@stephencarrington153]

I've bought some wall lights previouslly converted from gas (!), & inadequatly wired, for my newly rewired 1897 house, with RCBO & on 1.5mm T&E lighting circuit. May I ask if there's any way they could be made to meet Regs - mentioning the following details:- L+N cores only, unsheathed, run within brass/gas pipe of fitting{s} - IR & ContinuityR test ok If I externally secured an earth fly lead (1/1.5mm?) along metal of fitting, or just to its wall plate, would this be sufficient to comply? Thanks

[@learnelectrics4402]

Stephen. We couldn't possibly give any recommendation without physically examining the lights in their finished state, our insurance forbids it. However, just from what you have said about unsheathed cables, if these are class 1 lights then that already is a point of concern. I would suggest someone local to you who can test them for you.

[@justabloke6981]

Can you run an earth from the rose and switch to an earth in a socket? Cheers

[@learnelectrics4402]

If they are two separate circuits, i.e. on different breakers or fuses, then NO. L/N/E should be separate for each circuit. Hope this helps. Dave.

[@justabloke6981]

@@learnelectrics4402 Thanks for the reply. Is it possible to spur from a socket via an FCU to a lighting circuit? Cheers

[@davidclarke2513]

That regulation is an arse because in my 50 years as an Industrial electrician JIB GOLD card approved electrician as a young apprentice I was always told even if there was no exposed parts at a source you should always run an earth in a multi core cable wether it be a twin cable or swap cable because it affords some protection for the actual cable in case it is penetrated

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thanks for watching. The change was made after the war when copper was scarce.

[@adreenryan2901]

If it's a light fitting with rewire with new twin and earth the CPC will only 1mm so why would you need 2.5mm on old wiring.

[@learnelectrics4402]

A lot of older installations used singles in which case it was common to make all three conductors L-N-E the same size. Have a look at Table 54.7 on page 198 of 18th Edition. But yes, you are right, 1mm earth is ok for standard lighting circuits. Methods and ideas change over the years. Hope this helps.

[@kingofthetrowel1725]

@@learnelectrics4402 glad I’ve read this comment dave, as I was changing like for like downlights at home , and wondered why there was a single red and cpc in grey sheath and a single black in grey sheath no cpc , and wondered why they Wer single , as I’ve only seen the new twin earth blue brown or 3 core and earth 😂 think the house just missed out on the change over on colour but I did not know they used singles back then 👍

[@learnelectrics4402]

Anything can happen, as well as the rules changing, you also have to factor in people finding their own way of doing things. Dave.

[@glennstokes5841]

Am I correct in saying I could fit a double insulated metal fitting with no cpc

[@learnelectrics4402]

That's right Glenn. A double insulated fitting is constructed so that any electrical problem on the inside cannot get to the metallic parts on the outside. Much the same as an electric lawn mower. The handle might be metal but the electrical parts are encased in plastic. Hope this helps. Dave.

[@glennstokes5841]

@@learnelectrics4402 thanks for the reply. Keep up the good work

[@learnelectrics4402]

My pleasure.

[@thyrassword9698]

Ok is there any requirement to fail an older electrical installation with a C2 for not having RCD protection?

[@learnelectrics4402]

C2 means improvement recommended. It's then up to the customer to decide what to do. You should report honestly what you find on periodic Inspections. Hope this helps. Dave.

[@thyrassword9698]

@@learnelectrics4402 No mucka C3 is improvement recommended C2 is urgent remedial works needed. I asked because many sparks/inspectors differ on the no RCD being a C2 or C3

[@learnelectrics4402]

My typo Marty. C3. We have GN3 suggesting C2 but as it is an older installation I would go by the Wiring Regs 651.2 Note 2. which states it is not unsafe which makes it C3 improvement recommended. There are several odd ones like this in the Regs and no clarity on the horizon. All we can do is be honest in our appraisal. Take care buddy. Dave.

[@martinjp1]

Cool name.

[@learnelectrics4402]

Yes.

[@catchxxii4430]

🤘

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thanks for watching. Dave.

[@bigheros2078]

What is CPC?

[@learnelectrics4402]

Circuit protective conductor, have another look through the video for the description. Thanks.

[@glasgowdarren01]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

[@learnelectrics4402]

Thank you for watching - appreciated.