No Kids, No Regrets: My Story (Antinatalism)

[@spacescienceguy]

Do you think it’s ethical to have children in today’s world? Share your thoughts on the pros and cons of parenthood!

[@faaaduma]

Most people don't even care about you and your future children anyway. But they do feel offended when you tell them that you don't want to procreate. Just like when people get upset about abortion, but won't be as triggered, when discussing children dying of starvation and other terrible disasters.

[@CloroxBleach-dy9jw]

Im very offended sir

[@AntonConstanti]

because they want more slaves to do their work

[@cosmicprison9819]

faaaduma Because you interfere with their own plans for life, simply by espousing your contrasting position 😉.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Abortion is for dirty garden tools.

[@darkangel8922]

Because people are cruel idiots. They are actually very inhuman by core but only say and act humanely only when society and religion requires them to be. But personally/actually most aren't.

[@k-3402]

My main reason for not procreating is the fact that I have mental/physical health issues that I wouldn't want to risk passing on to my children. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if my child's or children's quality of life was abysmal as mine.

[@TheBPMonk1]

Same my entire family have suffered alot, could not stand to do that to my potential kids

[@stherlythelemaque1951]

Same If I choose to have kids It would be very selfish and irresponsible

[@cellulardecay9520]

That's why I had a vasectomy. I don't want to pass on my mental illness. Living with CONSTANT anxiety is horrible.

[@VaelVictus]

Genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger. You can do better than your parents; all of you.

[@k-3402]

@@VaelVictus I appreciate the sentiment, but I feel that's only true to an extent. If that maxim were universally true, why do young children get cancer? Even with our growing understanding of epigenetics, shit still happens, and life is chaotic and unpredictable.

[@businesslp3027]

Most people don’t enjoy parenting. They lie and say they do. My parents didn’t and it showed.

[@thatisyoga]

💯 On average humans mainly go along with what the popular behavior is, has been. Those who critically think and don’t prioritize popularity knowing themself and being authentic are truly valuable people.

[@AliciaMB97]

I feel like they mostly don’t enjoy the stage when you start forming your own opinions and stop looking “cute” as you grow into your adult face/body.

[@faaaduma]

I never seen a happy parents in my life. And still they tell you, "It's the greatest feeling ever". LOl! Talk about a total dissociation with the reality.

[@voxx7248]

Sucks for you

[@lee5267]

Well you had shit parents then . Because I have children and I have to say being a mum is the best thing that ever happened to me .

[@fitnessrelaxation]

Child-free is when people don’t have children, while an anti-natalist has a moral issue with procreation. An anti-natalist may adopt or have foster children, therefore would be a parent and not child-free. A child-free person may be fully supportive of their friends and family procreating, having no moral issue with it.

[@FactsCountdown]

Chidfree Don't have children for the sake of themselves while an antinatalist don't have children for child's sake.

[@Red-gl4pl]

From a young age I always wonder why anyone would want to bring kids into this cruel world. Life is not good.

[@kallesaarenpaa2914]

Well you have to understand that not everyone is an emo kid like you. Some people actually enjoy living you know? Can you grasp that?

[@Red-gl4pl]

Kalle Saarenpää so What if you have a child and it comes out sick or deformed? Who suffers? The child does. Life is nothing but a constant struggle for survival and if you are born with a face like mine, life is worse, it's hell. Being bullied, laughed at and hated because of something that you can't control and on top of that dealing with very bad anxiety and depression. People like me didn't ask to be here. I know some people have it nice and love it here. Lucky you. But not everyone is as lucky as you are.

[@lieberte]

​@@Red-gl4pl It will get better mate, I choose to find beauty in life. I think it's not hard to find beauty

[@vvsmixing]

i’m sure there’s someone down worse than you that would love to have all the luxuries you’ve been afforded in life. not to mention think how shitty your life would be if you were born just 200 years ago. your perspective needs to change

[@snagogh9804]

@@kallesaarenpaa2914 You know that so-called emo kids are actually depressed because they are too intelligent to grasp the shitiness of the world you enjoy it.

[@oddjob7821]

I actually wish I had never been born. Who would want to be brought into a world such as this one? I remember saying to my Dad that the equations of life dont add up. He asked me what I meant. I said you had five minutes off pleasure and I've had 50 years of misery. I can see your point he said. You have to remember we are not asked of we want to be born and given the choice how many people would actually say yes. Not many I bet

[@dorobee]

hahaha 5 minutes of pleasure and 50 years of misery. So true.

[@cellulardecay9520]

Cracks me up how people that live in complete poverty still choose to bring kids into this world. Or even worse. Those that have illnesses (that they will pass on) and still choose to have children.

[@missmaex3]

Agree with ALL of this!! Two selfish people's irresponsible 5 minutes of pleasure has resulted in a lifetime of pain for me. Had I had the choice, and could've avoided being abused, neglected, raped multiple times, among all of life's other inevitable pains, by not existing or being aborted, I would absolutely have chosen that.

[@charondolls]

I'm 33 asian female who used to think that I will have children one day. I did a lot of journaling and diving deep, then I listed the pros and cons of choosing to have a child and the list on the cons ended up being much longer than the pros.... I really hope one day this talk won't be controversial anymore with more people speaking up openly.

[@krisxu3581]

What are the con of having kids?

[@taxslave5906]

@@krisxu3581, financial burden, introducing a life of forced education, suffering, pain, depression, health problems etc, massive harm to the environment caused by having children and many more.

[@Tecolote41]

@@taxslave5906 I honestly can't think of a single positive/pro.

[@taxslave5906]

@@Tecolote41, exactly! There is no point in having children.

[@Walklikeaduck111]

Yay!

[@GriefTourist]

A lot of older people seem to be proud and self righteous that they struggled to build a life and survived grinding poverty and all the rest of it, as if it's something to be proud of. I do not expect life to be without grief but it is simply pointless unless you are guaranteed a reasonable amount of happiness.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

I gave always known I never wanted children. Ever since I was 15. I have always thought it was physically gross and I do not feel a deep connection to children. I tried for years to get sterilized. Always denied. Always told I would change my mind. Always spoken to like I'm a child who doesn't know my own mind. So, here I am years later having avoided relationships because I never wanted to risk having a child. I have spent my time trying to make the world better for other people's children. I have two god-children and I love them. They are enough for me.

[@konyvnyelv.]

No need to be sterilized. Just use condom

[@ke6944]

It's a small world, both you and I are a subscriber of Expose the manosphere KZbin channel.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

@@ke6944 very informative channel. Women must be made aware of men like that.

[@ke6944]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Indeed 💯

[@heyyyguuurl]

I know a mother who had three sons, and she raised them and gave them love and everything they needed when they were children. And when she divorced her abusive, ex husband and fought in court with him, her adolescent boys, sided with their father and they threw their own mother out of the house and kicked her out to be homeless. Even though she gave birth to them and spent most of her life taking care of them. Now she lives in an apartment by herself and she sees her sons once a week due to the judge listening to her sons wanting to live with their father and not their mother. Just because you have children, doesn't mean they gonna take care of you and love you the same way you loved them.

[@Henderix0]

Sounds like she shouldn’t have stayed with the man...not really a matter of having kids

[@Grimbach]

I'm gonna be that asshole and point out your friend gave you her side of the story. If she was such an awesome mom, why didn't her children want to stay with her?

[@taliavelazquez358]

@@Grimbach you never know.

[@aidacailar1126]

I know a lot of cases like this. Probably these kids chose to stay with the father because he was richer. Money is the number 1 priority for most people nowadays, which makes antinatalism the most logical decision one could made.

[@oranges557]

This story stinks so hard. A woman whose boys dont want to live with her, but instead with the "abusive ex". Wouldnt you wonder why? Women like these are often very manipulative, of COURSE she says her ex was abusive. Women are such good liars. I bet she deserves it. If your child doesnt want to stay woth its mother, she must have f*cked up bad

[@veganatheistandmore]

I always say that I love my children too much to have them. Up until my early 40's I heard people asking and wanting me to have kids. And I've been shamed and criticized most of my life for not wanting to be a mother. It's nice to see other vegans that are also choosing to not have children. I believe that veganism and antinatalism go hand in hand. Great video. Thank you!

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for sharing, I'm sorry to hear about how you have been shamed and criticised. No one deserves that.

[@veganatheistandmore]

@@spacescienceguy Thank you. After a while I realized that having kids was more important to people than it was for me. It's as if it offended them if I didnt. But I got used to it pretty quickly and it didnt phase me, it just boggled my mind. I really do apprecite your video and the fact that you are speaking up and sharing your thoughts. I think it is one of the most important topics of our time and I am glad that one more voice is being heard. Take care!

[@Grimbach]

I can't resist the cheap shot of saying it's nice to see vegans voluntarily go extinct.

[@alesprochazka5781]

it also goes hand in hand with meat eaters like me, I am just helping those animals with their existencial crises in beatiful pro-destructive way

[@chadguindon6909]

You know what....For me at 37, I had been getting told by people that I need to have children because they think I would make a great father. However, that doesn't mean that I am meant to father a child.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

I also enjoy my money, freedom, and time alone. My best friend has to hide in the bathroom to have time to herself from her kids. No thanks.

[@alejandramarquez6804]

Having kids is not about pleasure. And modern life is selling that life is about money and travels. I don't think that is a good argument. It not transcendental.

[@teresaamanfu7408]

I have no problem with you knowing that you are being selfish. If you are very certain, make sure you get yourself fixed. The worst thing would be to tell your partner that you don’t want to have children and yet do nothing about it.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Lol @ these responses. I'll sleep good tonight, since I have no kids.

[@whuh8873]

@@alejandramarquez6804 I'd rather travel than bare children, especially since I'm past 18 and haven't left this island since I was 2. Do you think you could derive the same meaning from a life spent alone travelling the world, as a life spent settled somewhere with kids? This is not rhetorical btw

[@alejandramarquez6804]

@@whuh8873 Every one can decide to have or have not children depending on their plans. But I disagree that pleasure is the main motivation or allergic to chaos. Pleasure doesnt allow you to grow up. That is what I mean. I am not having kids for reasons similar to you. But I still have my struggle and I dont need to see a chaotic family to feel good about myself. I decided to not have kids from a ethical perspective.

[@govegan6112]

Growing up my mother always told me she regretted walking down the aisle. I'm 47 now and never had kids and never wanted to.

[@TheGoldenPlatoon757]

Why does she regret getting married?

[@mssaltygiggles]

There has never been a point in my life where I wanted a child. I am now 30, and I still stand strong in my stance. I grew up in Foster Care, and I feel like that shaped a lot of my experience. Although at a young age I was more Tom boyish, and never had interest in baby dolls or girlie things. I’m not sure if it’s something in my DNA that makes me adverse to child bearing, but I don’t feel anything pulling me towards motherhood. Now I did have a negative childhood, but I pin my antinatalist views on my own experience & intelligence in life. I’m also an existential nihilist. I struggle with the idea of bringing life into this purposeless world that is aware of their own mortality. Regardless of the pleasures & suffering in this world it all comes to an end, and sometimes it’s genetically horrific. Aside from genetic diseases, we all eventually suffer some kind of painful end. If it’s not some random event that happens inbetween living our life, it’s the slow dying of our organs & bodies. Being aware of our own soon demise is terrifying. I can’t imagine imposing that onto someone else. It’s such a heavy weight to carry. I also don’t know what type of person I’m bringing into this world, or how they will handle their existence. It’s too much for me to handle. Main reasons aside you give good points, life is so short. Raising a child is a huge responsibility & will take up the majority of the remainder of your life. Maybe others find comfort in parenting, but it terrifies me. The one life I have, I want to be selfish. I want to live it through me and me only. I don’t want to spend my days chucking away pathing a path for anyone other than myself. Having a child I would end up spending the rest of my days investing in their well being and neglecting mine. That’s just something I’m not willing to do.

[@mssaltygiggles]

I’m also not vegan. I’ve been studying into nutrition more these days. I’m not sure how I feel about meat consumption. I just try to sustain myself with necessary sustenance that my body needs. I’m still studying into it, but I’m not sure if I’ll ever turn that way. My main goal is just to provide myself with the nutrients I need regardless of the suffering of other animals. My place on the food chain was predetermined. The lion eats the gazelle for sustenance. I too eat what I need to sustain myself. If I find something provides me with little to no sustenance then I will refrain from eating it as it would prove unnecessary.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

"I’m also an existential nihilist. I struggle with the idea of bringing life into this purposeless world that is aware of their own mortality. Regardless of the pleasures & suffering in this world it all comes to an end, and sometimes it’s genetically horrific. [...]" This most likely isn't nihilism. I'm a dude who has no expectation that any outcome is correct and I don't struggle with anything like that and further terms and stufff that you mentioned. Sounds brutal and awesome. Listen to Slayer.

[@egyptianqueen4007]

That is not being selfish. That is being smart.

[@sanamhusain691]

I agree with you. No point in having kids when the majority of young people are working harder than ever yet living in a rubbish flat. Poor people who breed keep making rich landlords richer

[@joaopedroalves9846]

I am not an antinatalist, but I am not having kids. I just can t see human societies having stability for the next 60 years, so why should I bother? Plus, I m not good with children

[@CBT5777]

@@joaopedroalves9846 That's like saying "I'm not an Atheist, but I don't believe in god."

[@rape_andrew_tate]

Are you an ANTI-NATALIST?

[@gabrielbarbosa7882]

@@CBT5777 Not at all. An antinatalist sees as moraly wrong to proceate and, thus, will oppose other people making the act. On the other hand, a person that decides to have no children themselves does not neeed to see it as wrong, in fact, they may even welcome others to have such.

[@CBT5777]

@@gabrielbarbosa7882 Not if they can't see human societies having stability for the next 60 years. Can't see why one would have that view and welcome others to have kids. I thought the person thought it was ethically wrong because of that statement.

[@hyperashitive3217]

Not having children is extremely intelligent. All you have to do is take a look at the state of the world right now to know that it would be a terrible imposition to put on someone and it's not going to get any better. I've known since I was very young that I did not want children and as a 27 year-old adult it still makes a lot of logical sense not to. Life is hell for most of the general population on this planet and very few are actually lucky enough to live a comfortable life. Even if you are lucky, we all still die in the end (which won't be pleasant) so what exactly is the point of going through all of the suffering of life anyway??? Thank you for saying this. We need more people our age to preach this message. I hope you make more videos I just subscribed!

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you so much! Yes I plan to keep making videos once a week on a range of topics including antinatalism.

[@faaaduma]

@We Are Anonymous On the other hand..

[@CloroxBleach-dy9jw]

I know right? Letting your heritage die while the so called unintelligent overrun this world is genius.

[@hyperashitive3217]

@@CloroxBleach-dy9jw It will be the unintelligent that will end up paying the price when their children have to suffer the consequences of a changing and polluted planet. The world as we know it now is not going to last forever and humanity will witness its own destruction in time. I'm not going to have children and possibly grandchildren so that they would have to suffer/experience humanity's demise. Only the truly stupid believe that their lineage will go on forever. We will be lucky if humanity is still around for another 200 years now.

[@aithjawcraig9876]

It's nice to see heterosexuals who don't feel entitled to bring human life into the world, and to at least consider the very serious ethical and existential ramifications for doing so

[@bengrunewald4183]

As Shopenauer said in so many words, existence is an inherently negative experience. I know I've suffered my entire life.

[@sariahlace5944]

He’s absolutely accurate.

[@AlexReynard]

If it's so bad, why are you still here?

[@excuseme2770]

@@AlexReynard because we lack the conviction to commit. Ultimately it’s just programming.

[@businesslp3027]

I don’t want none. I don’t feel like getting pregnant and doing all that. I just don’t care. I don’t care about ever being a mother.. . Why would you want to relive your childhood!? You already did the things your child will be doing. It’s like a re-run.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

It is better than what they did to TV Land.

[@leapfrog_george]

"If we really love our child, we should consider how being born would affect them" - yes agree. How does one ask a child to deal with and accept the existance of racism, pollution, diseases, inequality, war, death, poverty, bullying, lying, violence etc. in the world? I find it hard even to deal with these myself sometimes, and I won't think about bringing a life into a world like this, ESPECIALLY if I love them 💕

[@nonexistenceisbliss9528]

Brilliant post. 👌

[@lrwguitar]

It would be also wise to ask how your unborn child when born will affect the world around he she when born for instance how many animals will have to die for this child to live, who is this child going to end up hurting, betraying etc none of the above hopefully but you can never guarantee that.

[@sariahlace5944]

Another collaborated comment. My choice of words exactly. 💯💯👍👍

[@arigatameiwaku]

If you ever become wealthy and smart enough to raise a child. Adoption is always an option. Imagine guiding some lost poor soul in this world. To protect them from all the harm. I want to adopt a kid when i grow up, i hope i will be a great parent!

[@christinbremer6449]

This equation makes no sense. No entity towards your hypothetical love is directed even exists. You love nobody.

[@1life744]

Definitely never going to. My unresolved traumas would be passed on to my offspring. That would be soul murder.

[@God.sDaughter]

What traumas do you have?

[@N0Xa880iUL]

I feel you. This is my main reason. Even if my trauma is resolved still not having children. Will adopt one if I'm sure I can be a good loving and providing parent.

[@God.sDaughter]

@@fatcat535 Tell that to serial killers who were abused by their parents others beaten severely by their child at an early age which triggered their anti social behaviour towards humans. You are insulting him for telling his truth? He simply said he doesn’t want kids due to unresolved trauma. And that’s very courageous of him to see that in himself unlike you who thinks so highly of yourself.

[@dhhdsjjc2408]

@@fatcat535 ok fatcat535

[@masterwayne420]

One of the few comments on here that’s logical. I hope the best for you and hope your traumas in life are resolved.

[@yeshacroe9354]

Ive been through from a lowest shit experience in my life. Gotten abused by my parents, death of my parents, shamed, bullied, not welcomed by my relatives, shames due to my failures, broken hearted and used by my ex, struggled to live with a small salary, been desperate, looked down by people, insulted and shamed again in my companies, fought with different people , witnessing people that turn their back on me, being stupid and irresponsible with my pets,witnessing people who betrayed me, ive gone hungry for days because i have no money, insecure most of my life for not having enough and alone because no one is actually there for me in genuine. Up until now, i get worser that i come to a point not everyone in this world is lucky and even if you work hard , circumstances is that youd probably still end up in the lowest point .I started to always think of existence. I somehow come to realize that whatever people do we will still keep striving and running in a maze that we dont know about and we die and leave our contributions Achievements money fame , we all just perish and pass again to another human being. Ive been sufferring too much that i do not want kids to open their eyes with this cruel world. Yes some kids can handle it and is strong but there are kids too who cannot help themselves but be on a weaker side.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for sharing your story

[@beaulieuc8910]

Well said, I am in a similar position

[@ChrisDragotta]

Yes, similar here. Maybe not as bad. But, bad enough. Can you imagine being a child now? It's no good here.

[@matttejada7381]

I think not wanting to procreate and adopting a child if they want to help lessesn the world's suffering is the most empathetic choice for antinatilists.

[@MCC876]

Much respect to you. Society, family, religion tells us to have children,. To step outside this brainwashing deserves respect.

[@Moon1a]

No it is but your choice to have kids do you not see that?

[@CloroxBleach-dy9jw]

Literally no one cares if you have children or not.

[@swabbie7837]

@@CloroxBleach-dy9jw just shut up man

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

I hate "society", my family, and religion. Kids are fine.

[@CloroxBleach-hv4ns]

@@swabbie7837 no

[@NPCLivesMatter]

I am a female and I used to want children when I was younger. Now I think having a child is unethical. A child will suffer at one time or another. A child will cause others' suffering eventually, be it on purpose or not, direct or indirect. Lastly, there are almost always children up for adoption, living in orphanages. People who choose to make their "own" kids over these orphans are inherently being selfish. There is no shortage of humans on the world. Some would argue that the world is overpopulated and we need less people. A child is another human consuming more stuff, creating more waste, and perpetuates the economy's machine. I don't shame people for having children. I just lie and say I'm happy for them.

[@spacescienceguy]

I think I'd echo David Benatar's view on people I know having children. I'm happy for *them*. Some of my closest friends have young children, and I don't see them or the children as any less.

[@timothystern7363]

Stay strong in your decision.

[@filrabat]

Half of what clinches it for me is that I see no purpose in perpetuating our species into the indefinite future. If humans went extinct, so what? The other half is what you said - especially the "on purpose" part: "A child will cause others' suffering eventually, be it on purpose or not, direct or indirect." Not just children, mind you, but people will hurt others deliberately or with willful indifference. Given how human nature is, should we really be birthing more members of such a species? *At most*, one may bite the bullet and say that one child per woman per lifetime can cushion the inevitable labor shortage blow 25 to 50 years from now and beyond. But even this counter is vulnerable to current technological advancements - robots w/advance AI can take over maintainence and infrastructure upkeep, food harvesting, etc. Increasing robot-AI automation in recent years would make antinatalism feasible even within my lifetime (I'm in my early 50s). But even so, my mini-natalist should a practical - if a "bullet-biting" - alternative.

[@justanotherutuber3]

We have to speak up about this otherwise these kids will be effed

[@CloroxBleach-dy9jw]

Everyone is selfish to a degree. Get over it you priest.

[@GoDanielaLipovska]

Right to die should be worldwide for anyone who wants to die, no need for reasoning and stupid talk about how life is a gift.

[@joaopedroalves9846]

I am not an antinatalist but I support the right to die peacefully e without pain

[@masterwayne420]

@@joaopedroalves9846 agreed. Also disagree with anti natalism but this is a great comment.

[@michaelesposito239]

I agree. Why continue the cycle of suffering? Life is not worth the suffering.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Its not?

[@emmy4537]

@Enamorada de Lee Know. exactly. life is pointless.

[@emmy4537]

@Stuka Obergruppentruppenstuppensturm sheep

[@Sxd212]

Life is a lot more than just suffering ❤️

[@sunnysideissuperior6438]

@@emmy4537 then why you still here ?

[@youtubeaccount57721]

- What if your child happens to be the next Mozart? - What if my child happens to be the next Hitler?

[@acceptinglife6491]

I don't want to bring an innocent human being into this endless suffering. This is because I also wish I was never born, so it would be so cruel to potentially subject another human being to that misery. But I would love to raise and nurture a child that already exist, so I'll be adopting definitely

[@AgeismGoesBothWays]

Good : D. I wanted to adopt at one point but I ended up getting divorced and not thought of it since. It was exciting to think about and I don't know why anyone would have a hard time adopting.

[@DeadFolksinger]

1. I love sleeping, soo no kids for me

[@cosmicprison9819]

JP Lol 😊 And thus, your kids will never have to wake up either. Winning! 😉

[@God.sDaughter]

@HiPoint1095Carbine I love you! You have the same exact thought as me. I love sleep. Quiet and tranquil. Away from the bills and the wildness of this ever changing world.

[@cosmicprison9819]

HiPoint1095Carbine Makuta in the 2003 Bionicle movie knew what he was talking about when he said "Sleep spares him pain; awake, he suffers". 😉 Too bad they later on retconned him into being your standard psychopathic genius striving for world domination...

[@gabiramir5796]

Good one

[@tamcon72]

I declared I'd never reproduce at age five--I had a friend who was adopted, and I thought this was a very sensible route for parenting if one wanted to parent--and by the time I was your age, people stopped questioning my stance. I discovered VHEMT as a thirty-something in 2008, and I felt my stance objectively confirmed. I like children and always wanted to foster; I have spent long periods of my life taking care of other people's children and am a certified Montessorian. But I always felt that adding additional people to the Earth was _unnecessary._ I am a "soft" antinatalist, but people assessing us don't make the distinction between hard and soft versions, I have found. I draw the line at efilism, mind you. ThanksForPosting.

[@spacescienceguy]

It was my pleasure, and thank you for sharing. It's interesting you say that people don't usually make the distinction between hard and soft antinatalism. I think that's true for the general population, but I had someone tell me in response to this video that they don't think being a soft antinatalist, which is how I'd describe myself, is actually antinatalism. That's just not wanting to have a child for other reasons, in their view.

[@tamcon72]

@@spacescienceguy That is it: Antinatalism is not a thing of degree based on one's reasons; one is either anti reproduction based on a narrow set of criteria, or selectively(perhaps unconsciously)pro reproduction. I guess I understand that point, but wonder if the hard line ironically relates to the aphorism about how one can't be "a little" pregnant. [shrug]

[@decipheritalian]

@@tamcon72 However one could be a reducetarian or even a reducenatalist, avoiding purism and allowing for a gradual but slower decline. These are good practical stances anyway when dealing with Jo Public! Why (and where) do you draw the line at Efilism?

[@Ammeo]

My antinatalism lead me to veganism. They both are very much connected. I dont want to become the cause of suffering of humans nor animals due to my life choices.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for sharing! I think it was the other way around for me (or maybe at the same time), but there is definitely a strong link between the two.

[@thewatcher8580]

Vegan gains

[@zippydodahquirk9039]

As a woman I never wanted children due to the evils of multinational corporations and the state. Children have to grow up in a world being tax slaves and slaves to multinational corporations. I refuse to subject another human to that. I always wished I was never born because this world is a feeding frenzy filled with suffering.

[@cellulardecay9520]

Seriously. None of us are free in this world. Well, 99% of us are slaves.

[@neverending9803]

As an 18 year old female, I've been told things like: -you'll grow out of it, you're too young now. -whats wrong with you?? -once you find a boyfriend you'll change your mind for sure. -why would you deprive yourself of such happiness? -having a child is the most beautiful thing in life. It's really quite frustrating to be told this over and over and not be able to explain myself to them. I've been trying to do research and have strong arguments that back up my views before saying anything inaccurate. Some people even believe I see myself as irresponsible or lack the skills needed to raise a child but they couldn't be more wrong. Thanks for making this video, I feel understood and more knowledgeable.

[@spacescienceguy]

I'm so glad to hear that you found this video useful, that's exactly why I made it. I can sympathise with your situation. I've been told similar things, though I don't think anyone has outright asked what's wrong with me. It definitely seems to me that females get a very different response to males on this, and that's not fair.

[@timothystern7363]

You need to have the strength to not be swayed by society and other people. Live life as you want it only. Very difficult to do as a youth as the pressure to conform is immense.

[@joeber3869]

"having a child is the most beautiful thing in life" =0) this one usually coming from wasted, frustrated and sleep-deprived mothers who would drop the baby at the spot if there was no maternal instinct...

[@veganatheistandmore]

@g .L hi there! I have a few videos on my channel talking about my experience as a female that chose not to have kids. In case you want to check them out. 😉 Hope they help.

[@Woofwoof369]

It hurts when people tell you you are less of a human/woman for not wanting a child like tf?

[@lepetitchat123]

You're so gutsy for making this video, showing your face and name... AN needs more people like you coming out :)

[@spacescienceguy]

Thanks! I think I'm lucky. I know some people will be disappointed, but those closest to me either understand or agree. I know it wouldn't be easy for many others to say this.

[@cosmicprison9819]

Vegan Space Scientist I'm not trying to diminish your courage here, I just want to add that part of the reason you can attemptthis might be due to the fact that you're studying in a male-dominated field. 😉 Espouse antinatalism in a female-dominated field like psychology, especially if a lot of your colleagues are mothers already, and the risk of vocational ostracism is even larger. Because you're interfering with their personal acts or plans of self-expression.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you so much for 500 subscribers! I'm humbled that this many people are interested in hearing what I have to say. This video has been by far my most popular, and so I plan on making more antinatalist content in the future, among other things. Stay excellent folks.

[@carpo719]

@@captainapollowilliam could your opinion be subjective? Why do you assume you are intelligent?

[@captainapollowilliam]

@@carpo719 Gary Inmendham can best answer your question on subjections and I agree with him perfectly, here is the video.... Gary Inmendham more objective subjective projective. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6DcgJ-Po5dqq8U

[@beyondthescenebroughtmeher5512]

I consume animal products because it's more convenient for us who don't have access to vegan varieties. My need to eat as a living thing is just non-negotiable. While with reproducing and being a human having a brain capacity to be logical with decisions, I know that I have a choice. I am a feminist. That's why I am pro-choice and I am choosing to be an ANTI-NATALIST CHILD-FREE. Never forcing anyone else to suffer in this cruel world.

[@beyondthescenebroughtmeher5512]

I say to jealous breeders: Stay jealous for NOT getting enough sleep. Stay jealous for not being able to travel. Stay jealous for not having freedom to do all things childfree women do. We ain't missing out. You're the one who is missing out for choosing to produce disgusting SNOTTY human children over enjoying life to the fullest without constantly worrying of your responsibilities as a parent of a human who might get into drugs or do crimes or both ☠️

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

@@beyondthescenebroughtmeher5512 yet, you force animals to suffer unnecessary cruelty for your convenience. What kind of nonsense is that?

[@God.sDaughter]

Even King Solomon himself with all the wisdom that he had, all the treasures, all the greatness. He looked at the world and said(I paraphrase) “vanity upon vanity.” “It’s all worthless.” Then why should children be brought into this world to toil and toil at the end of it all die? Why? As an African when I say I don’t want kids I get crucified for that. Wish me luck guys! 😩

[@God.sDaughter]

@Stuka Obergruppentruppenstuppensturm Hey, if you’ll insult me, tell me with a genuine heart. Don’t come on with me with your passive aggressiveness. 🤨

[@God.sDaughter]

@Stuka Obergruppentruppenstuppensturm Why did you tell me “you better not have children” then?

[@biohomie]

Ignore those who see you differently. Embrace yourself.

[@sailor.saturn]

Glad I’m no longer the only antinatalist I know of in Sydney 👏🏻

[@timothystern7363]

Melbourne checking in.

[@spacescienceguy]

Glad to hear that! I know a few others in Sydney. Many but not all of the antinatalists I know are through the vegan community.

[@smritydua2693]

India checking in, oh we need it! 😛

[@dimitrigonzalosfromperthau2633]

Any Perth people?? 😊

[@VishalLandge]

@@smritydua2693 kaha se ho city

[@JohnDoe-ef3wo]

No matter what angle you look at it from, it only makes sense not to have children! This is not a popular opinion in Hispanic community that I come from. But I know it's right thing to do!!

[@alexbayer2365]

Baes opinion in Hispanic community, much better than woke antinatalism.

[@justanotherutuber3]

Grind which lasts 80yrs along with suffering and all kind of decease just to satisfy parent is always a harm for the child!

[@spacescienceguy]

Having a child for the satisfaction of the parent is shameful.

[@masterwayne420]

@@spacescienceguy not really. Shameful to shame others for beating children and making them out to be terrible people.

[@mehedihasan-ui6qt]

Marries Spends joyful honeymoon period Honeymoon period ends Life gets dull or boring Solution: *Child*

[@1life744]

That is the truth.

[@lemonwater9687]

yeah, I don't believe in antinatalism

[@redpalex]

@@lemonwater9687 I think you misunderstood

[@lemonwater9687]

@@redpalex what do you mean

[@millenialmusings8451]

@@redpalex breeders are too dumb to even get sarcasm lol. This guy above is an example. They are just on the kool-aid

[@lexwritesthings]

I appreciate that you bring up the gender divide on the issue. As a woman who has never wanted children I have consistently been met with disdain, disbelief, or even pity when I've told people. I will never forget the driving instructor I met when I was 16 - a fellow child free woman who was the first person to believe and validate my views, and still one of only a handful of people who has responded with acceptance. So glad to have met a partner who is perhaps more of an antinatalist than I am. :P

[@spacescienceguy]

I wonder why the gender divide exists for this particular matter. Is it because people see a woman's role as bringing a child in to the world and raising them, while a man's role is seen as doing whatever they like? Either way, it's a dated and shameful view.

[@lexwritesthings]

It's a good question. Anecdotally, there seems to be a close tie of women's identity with motherhood which people seem to struggle with when a woman chooses not to become a mother. I've tried to find actual data about the societal attitudes towards women who are childfree by choice but it's hard to find.

[@ChrisDragotta]

@@spacescienceguy Men are not seen, traditionally, as being able to do whatever they want. They are pressured to compete for the privilege to provide a woman with money. To strive for status. An equally shit deal considering how constricting this always is.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

@@ChrisDragotta hate to break it to you, but women have been in the workforce for decades and don't need men to provide for us. Idk why people keep perpetuating these gender roles.

[@kani9284]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet exactly.

[@arigatameiwaku]

Adoption exists. Instead of creating new problem(new human) you give parent(yourself) to a child who needs it right now.

[@jimsimpson2820]

No one is harmed by not being born, but being born will most likely cause some harm with the potential of very serious harm. How can you justify procreation when you can't GUARANTEE that person won't suffer? Priority must be given to the alleviation of suffering and not the enhancement of happiness, and the only way to ensure that is to not breed. Not existing harms no one, yet existing harms everyone.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

I can't come up with a good reason to care about my own suffering if it can even be called that. Definitely not all of my pain was the same as suffering or harm or all ways visa and versa. Seems like kind of a fool's errand ethical exercise.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

@@MilwaukeeF40C This is a time to predict. Wouldn't be having this conversation in a dystopian future.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@N0Xa880iUL Exactly. A dystopian future needs people in it, especially me as an all but immortal transhumanist and my loyal descendants to take advantage of it.

[@sampadakhair8674]

On top of that parents expect their kids to behave or live their life in a certain way especially in a collectivistic culture. It could be even called as 'slavery '. The concept of antinatalism or being childfree cannot be denied if you could think about it logically and without any societal pressure.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Fucking with collectivism kind of makes me want kids more. BB guns BIZNATCH!

[@darkangel8922]

Very true. Spoken my mind about collectivist culture.

[@masterwayne420]

Having children is no where near comparable to the forced labor, torture, kidnapping, trafficking, and other mistreatment done to others in the name of slavery. This is one of the most illogical responses I’ve seen yet you have the audacity to claim otherwise.

[@EbonyJoneskuye]

Don't compare childbirth to slavery ... insulting.

[@egyptianqueen4007]

Don't compare that to slavery. They aren't even on the same wave length. What an ignorant and insulting thing to say.

[@beaulieuc8910]

It is crazy to bring a child into the world so it would die, and have in some cases, an agnosing death or be a murder or rape victim etc.

[@bernard7057]

Death does not invalidate life

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@bernard7057 Yeah really what the fuck?

[@God.sDaughter]

@@bernard7057 suffering does invalidate life. 😕

[@sunnysideissuperior6438]

@@God.sDaughter everything suffers at one point.

[@God.sDaughter]

@@sunnysideissuperior6438 exactly! That’s why you shouldn’t create a baby to make it suffer at one point.

[@oceania4681]

I knew at 9 years old I wouldn’t have kids. I’m 38 now

[@yushamush9849]

I often consider deciding to have a child as the ultimate gamble: you really have no idea what your children are going to be like, how their lives are going to turn out or how the decision will affect your own. Although I would love to care for my own children, I think it would be a selfish decision overall; ultimatley I would be creating a person for the bolstering of my own lifes worth, which seems insane considering the never ending list of reasons why this planet does not need any more human beings; not even mentioning that mortal life is generally predicated on struggle. These days I think it would be better to give my love to others in one form or another, and sacrifice the endless dark sprint of my genealogy in exchange for the perfect infinite sleep of my unborn children.

[@arbazonlineacademy3574]

i wish i may not born, suffering from anxiety and depression......

[@Seekingtruth-mx3ur]

This life is a living hell.

[@Sxd212]

I know it’s hard but I hope you can seek help/figure it out and feel better.

[@JD-yn8ce]

@@Seekingtruth-mx3ur suicide exists for a reason. If you hate life so much I could help you ;)

[@Crownking999]

@@JD-yn8ce what do you mean?

[@ARedMagicMarker]

@@Crownking999 Psychos of the world would murder antinatalists for speaking the truth of the world----which just proves our point. XD

[@json5467]

To have something larger than yourself to strive for... that's better than popping out a kid and hoping for the best. Devoting your life to bettering the planet is an infinitely better choice. We are in the age of the internet, we have access to knowledge, wisdom, tools, and the means to learn anything. Our parents and grandparents did not have this. They lived and died in their communities, ignorant of everything happening around the world. Their purpose was only in family and work. To that much, I can be thankful for them to be brought in a time that's better than the previous generations. They're not wise like we are. We have learned to see things that they haven't, and when their inert ways of thinking are challenged they get defensive and emotional. It's not good. You need to really weigh the options here. Is it worth sacrificing your young adult life to raise another human when you yourself are not fulfilled?

[@Marinaglam2024]

I’m in Brisbane Australia and I’m childfree and an antinalism

[@kamillesimon812]

Lovely video! I’ve always wanted to have kids, but it stemmed from wanting to do better than my parents. And being a “perfect” mom. When I came to the realization that my kids may still end up messed up, thus continuing the suffering cycle, I realized I was just being selfish. I still tether on the fence of wanting kids and being child free, but I know for sure that I will be fostering and/or adopting. I will never bring another sentient being onto this god forsaken earth.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for sharing

[@YukiNakamura]

Nature in this world is just cruel. In the jungle, the physically strongest survives. In our society, the mentally strongest. Relentless competition for exclusive resources for which only the strongest can have access, while the weak are left unhappy. That's roughly how life is.

[@businesslp3027]

Parents know parenting sucks. They say it doesn’t suck because they want you to have kids so that your life can suck like their life. They are trying to wheel you in so you’ll be miserable.

[@bigabi2774]

You know how to read minds? Das cool.

[@joejackson7601]

Misery needs Company

[@lulamae3710]

There was no joy from my parents, and I don't want my child to suffer the same thing from me. I won't purposefully condemn my child, but I don't know how to parent with joy.

[@duruyucel]

I'm an antinatalist literally from childhood hahah I'm so happy to see people going for it more and more!

[@spacescienceguy]

Wow, what lead you to think that way from such a young age?

[@duruyucel]

@@spacescienceguy From the time I could understand ''the machine'' which happened at the age of 5 when I started kindergarden, I saw it very clearly for many reasons about life, the systems we live in and the human existence itself.

[@duruyucel]

But just learned that this is called ''antinatalism'' hahah, a year ago I was unaware there is a name and a movement like that. Then I started to feel much more like ''Oh, so, I can feel more belonging to this earth.'' :)

[@josephp.1919]

​@@duruyucel Wow 5 years old. I feel kind of lame, I didn't realize that humans sucked until around 11, and even then I didn't realize that it would be cruel to have children until I was around 17.

[@duruyucel]

@@josephp.1919 11 is still quite good and it's better to get it later I guess, for the sake of feeling at ease with what's going on. But 17 is definitely not late for the realisation of the value in antinatalism. 👏👏👏

[@rubiferrer2419]

I just told my mother over the phone that I'm mad at her for having me. I've been thinking about it my whole life and I just got the courage to tell her 2 hours ago. I hate life

[@Coastpsych_fi99]

Same Rubi it’s tough and wish I was never born!

[@joejackson7601]

It's difficult for most... because Birth creates a Trauma Bond to parents and this Cesspit Hellish Zoo aka Stockholm Syndrome aka Trauma Bond.

[@cosmingurau]

Wonderfully balanced, sensible opinion

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for the very kind words.

[@cosmingurau]

@@spacescienceguy 😊 I too felt that AN groups are very extreme in nature, so I decided to fuse Secular Humanism and Antinatalism in a facebook group I baptized Anthropocentric Antinatalism, where we try to figure things out in a calm, respectful, empathy/compassion-based manner.

[@spacescienceguy]

@@cosmingurau Sounds great, I'll go and look for the group!

[@InterstellarDreams]

I don't want children, either. Simply because.. I've just never wanted them! I guess one could say I've got maternal instincts, but they're sort of wired all strangely, or something. As in: I've never liked kids. I never even liked them when I myself WAS a kid! But I love cute pets, and feel very protective towards them. Plus I also work with a bunch of super sweet elders at a nursing home, that I absolutely love! And in fact feel VERY maternal towards! So.. I think my maternal instincts are just sort of naturally a bit misdirected. Plus I'm also mostly asexual. And neurodivergent / mildly autistic, and just generally a bit weird. So that could perhaps also have something to do with it..? Anyway... I wouldn't say I'm a full-on anti-natalist. BUT..? I am someone who definitely thinks having kids, because you want them, is a selfish act. Just like NOT having kids, if you don't want them, is also a selfish act. And that if you can't provide a good home, and a good life, for your hypothetical kids? Because you're broke, or messed up, or very mentally or physically ill, or jobless, or you just haven't sorted yourself out yet..? You really have no business having them, to begin with! As you would NOT be able to give them a good life, and you'll likely be causing them all kinds of trauma! And just.. having kids is NOT a human right! I think far more people should decide NOT to have kids. And that it is something one should definitely carefully, critically consider, before deciding to have them! Plus having kids out of some stupid pressure to conform is also dumb... That being said, though? I'd say, overall, I'm glad that I was born. And my parents, although NOT perfect, were overall good parents. Who loved me, and did their best to give me a happy childhood, and an overall good life. So.. I do NOT think they did something immoral, by having me! But I do think, if they had been extremely neglectful, or otherwise not able to take care of me, and meet my needs..? It WOULD have been immoral for them to have me, yes. So all in all, at least for me..? I guess it boils down to whether or not you're able to be a good parent for your kid(s)! Plus also, in countries where there's a HUGE overpopulation problem, it would be overall better not to have kids, because of that. Interesting topic. Haven't gotten to discuss it in a while! Thank you for this video. :)

[@kyaiaiakyaiaia4230]

Hopefully my future partner will think the same....

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

I'm working on a woman now. This one doesn't want kids and I'm cool with that. But I hope she will wear the strap. She's super Catholic. I am planning to tell her we can do it in the church but then no vasectomies and no tubes tied (technically no condoms or birth control but let's not get crazy), or this, or none of the above.

[@deplant5998]

Sometimes i wish some peoples parents were anti-natalists.

[@Boosh43]

I enjoy not having children and not being stuck with the same miserable situation with the same woman....Can't see myself doing it

[@acusr925]

Good that more people are becoming public about the lack of desire to have children. All that's needed now it a dating site for antinatalists, the would streamline the dating process.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

Perfect.

[@joaopedroalves9846]

Most people that don t want to have children are not antinatalists. Most of them just dont want because of financial and mental reasons, or because they dont like socializing or taking care of children. Antinatalism is a ethical position towards birth and reproduction, a person can be an antinatalist and still have kids (adopted)

[@ZionMathisAKASonicFan1999]

Society is generally fucked up, and I really don't care what people think, as a black man in my early twenties I don't want kids, ever since I was younger I used to did one kids then when I was like 17 I already knew Parenthood is can stressful "Then what if your parents decide not to have you" and I wouldn't be here of course, I didn't ask to be here, plus both of my parents say they weren't ready for me at that time

[@jacquelineentwistle5091]

I'm 56 never wanted children having them only brings more problems pain suffering and death good for you

[@vanitycalamity2195]

To imagine being a parent...knowing the heartbreak this world brings. What is more selfish, still having that child anyway ...or loving the child enough to not subject a child to this?

[@Maniac1607]

Christian guy here and I'll never have kids either. Going against the grain, to be sure.

[@emmy4537]

You come out of that nonexistent state just to do whatever you’re gonna do until you eventually return back into that state of nonexistent. It doesn’t matter what accomplishments you have because we all die.

[@THATVEGANLAWYER]

I subscribe to Hawking's theory of multiverses and to some theories of parrallel universes but I am childless in all of them 😂😂😂 production wise your best video yet!

[@spacescienceguy]

😂 I'd be curious to hear from any parallel universe me's who have had children on why they did. And thanks! I was a bit disappointed by the out of focus of the first half but otherwise I felt really good about it.

[@THATVEGANLAWYER]

@@spacescienceguy I'm so excited for our project! Our styles and perspectives are gonna blend so well together.

[@thatisyoga]

Same. I couldn’t imagine any version of outcomes including me having a child.

[@mattasaurus12]

Population alone is why i think having kids is wrong

[@seastorm1979]

Adopt rather than reproduce.

[@spacescienceguy]

I'd still rather not, but I'm very supportive of people who do adopt.

[@alexbayer2365]

It’s not your genetic material. But I support that after 40+

[@Rolo-gn1nk]

Iove this! I am saying this as someone who has two children. I love it because it's challenging. I dont like that people who dont want to have kids are dismissed as "they'll grow out of it." I do believe education is the best way. Helping everyone to think about all the possible pit falls and options. Like everything, it's a process, and this is no small part of that. Good stuff.

[@unlovableghost]

I am so conflicted. In your terms, personally I would love to have children. I would consider myself a nurturing person, I like kids and I think I would enjoy the experience. Ethically, I can't bear the thought. I am one of 3 siblings, and all of us have asked our parents at some point why they had us, and expressed that we would have preferred not being born. Objectively I've had a good life, my family is well off and I grew up in a pretty normal loving home. I went to private school, at 22 now I've got a BSc in Engineering and I'm in Med school. If I feel so purposeless and lost so often, having it relatively easy, what can I expect for less fortunate people, or what could a child of mine experience? And still, selfishly, I know having a child would damper my sadness. I would love to experience pregnancy, see my boyfriend in someone else. Teach this child things, tell them I love them more than anything in this world and mean it. I feel If I don't have children, I will carry that burden forever. But how could I tell them that I love them above all else, that I would give my life for them, If I couldn't protect them from the suffering of this Earth just because I wanted to ease my pain? I try to think of counterarguments, but find them feeble. In a utilitarian attempt, albeit arrogant, I think maybe it would not be as bad for me to have a child, because unlike many others I could provide a loving home and ample resources, my constant presence during their early years, a big support system and education to help them become a great asset to the world... but what If they're still miserable? If I cannot protect them from others, or even themselves. I would love some insight. I wish I just did not desire them the way I do.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for sharing this. I don't think there's an easy answer for this unfortunately. Perhaps you could think about why you want a child of your own and think whether there is some other way to get that same experience or feeling. Could you look at adopting or fostering, for example? I want to thank you for thinking about this at all though. It is a rare and kind-hearted person who desires children but has second thoughts for ethical reasons.

[@unlovableghost]

@@spacescienceguy Thank you so much for your reply. I think I'm going to try fostering once I'm out of Med school, since it's not permanent and could aid in deciding what to do. It makes sense, and still I find it so interesting, how much of a burden understanding the impact of our actions can be. My mum says it never crossed her mind that we could possibly desire not being born. I know get why people say ignorance is bliss. As another sciency veggie person, thank you for your work, and for helping us make sense of these ethical dilemmas :)

[@N0Xa880iUL]

I think if you can provide your time and resources to a child then it's not wrong to have a child or two perhaps. That's only if you can provide your time as a mother living at home. I was surprised to know that the human race needs a fertility rate of 2.1 currently, earlier 2.2, to replace the population. Which means if you have one or two children you are actually contributing to the reduction of human population. If everybody followed this hereon, we would see comparatively rapid decline in world population.

[@palma8415]

Please don't. No matter how much you try to protect your child, you won't be able to guarantee that they won't suffer. There is always a risk, actually it's certain that they will suffer less or more, and there is death that is rarely comfortable. And if you believe in the afterlife and maybe hell, why would you bring a child in this world that could go there. So all those positive things are not worthy enough to outweigh the bad ones.

[@lizcook5574]

I absolutely could not have said it better myself. We have much in common, so thank you for your comment. I think my best solution thus far is to adopt a child -- to have that motherly experience without being unethical, while arguably being ethical by taking care of one who is already here and needs me. And it's a win-win because I need them too. Take care, all my best to you.

[@paulameninato8948]

Yess!!! Childfree for life! I'm actually going to be making several anti-natalist videos. One of the videos I will be filming this week will be a discussion with a stay-at-home mom who is a badass advocate for the animals. We're going to discuss antinatalism and the importance of respecting other people's choices.

[@spacescienceguy]

That's great! I'm looking forward to seeing the videos.

[@cjalisyas]

❤🇱🇰💯🙏👍👌🙏🙏

[@Mr252464]

5:41 Even if it's good to have a happy child (for the child), we can't guarantee that he/she will be happy. It's luck. Let's say you have a friend, and you have a magic die. You can roll it, and if it's 1-5, your friend gets $1,000,000, but if it's 6, your friend gets cancer. And you decided to roll it, and your friend gets $1,000,000. Can we say that your decision was good? It had a good outcome for your friend, but...

[@Der_Monarch]

Exactly. You're playing Russian roulette with the life of another person and even the persons your child may affect negatively.

[@bernard7057]

The difference being that you're undermining the influence that parenta have on thwir children. I child born into a poor household that has the basic necessities but was provided love and a healthy growing environment is better off than a child that grew up in a financially stable home with an abundance of money but disregard for the child's growth.

[@cellulardecay9520]

I've dealt with HORRIBLE metal illness since I was 12 years old. Because of it I can't work. Because of that I have no money. I can't afford to do anything or go anywhere. Women want nothing to do with me since I can't provide. My mental illness doesn't allow me to get out much so because of that I have no friends. My whole life is just me being in my room (that I rent from someone) and coping with my mental illness. Life is beyond sick and ugly. Why anyone would wanna bring children into this world is beyond me.

[@lilvegan2002]

Im sorry to hear that.

[@lifeisabadjoke5750]

How do you rent if you can’t work?

[@SimoneS55555]

really hope you get this sort of outlook to more people. people are so one track minded. really wish people would look at the bigger picture in the world and stop having children for the wrong reasons. great video.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you!

[@MoreLifePlease]

68 now. No children. No regrets over that. In fact, I consider it the best thing I've never done. There is no other aspect of my mortal slog with which I'm more more pleased. Male, so I've almost certainly caught less flak over this decision than most females would. Very unfair and I hope it's among those features of human existence that will one day be dispensed with. I salute all you, my fellow antinatalists, and wish you courage and good luck in the face of opposition, often nasty opposition, from those holding what is, sadly, likely to remain the majority opinion.

[@johndonwood4305]

I'm just glad that I don't have children that will live to see the horrors of the future global food/oil/water/land/ crisis.

[@sunflower-im7lo]

I believe more in hard antinatalism. Existence is bad for each individual. The pleasures that one experience in existence do not outweigh the suffering. Just my personal view and based on experience. I solidly support David Benatar's take on antinatalism.

[@spacescienceguy]

I appreciate you sharing!

[@filrabat1965]

Not just suffering for one's self. Also the bad we do to others. One's pleasure usually doesn't outweigh another's suffering.

[@FindingGnosis]

A brilliantly articulated presentation. Thanks for sharing. You should enter it in the "Why am I an Antinatalist 2020" competition on ForeverWolfFilm's channel!

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you! I'd be happy to, though unfortunately I can't find the details for the competition on their channel. Do you have a link by any chance?

[@spacescienceguy]

@ForeverWolfFilms Thank you so much! I'm looking at the video now and do hope to enter :)

[@Drab_Mode]

It is so selfish to put that kind of pressure on a child to do such a great but impossible thing and be the “future” so to speak. To have a child just for that wishful thinking purpose is devastating.

[@masterwayne420]

It’s selfish to believe it is selfish. You selfishly believe you are superior to others because of one stance you have.

[@ekauranium]

@@masterwayne420 are you not doing the same thing?

[@amethystlake]

I feel guilt when I express my opinions on not wanting a child and having tokophobia. My family just take the mick and say that I am very opinionated and rude. I am very entitled to not want kids and not see what the big fuss is about. I am also vegan and believe that the earth will benefit from these things and I don't want to bring a child up in this world. It's a shame that we are guilt tripped into feeling bad or ashamed for not wanting kids.

[@Woofwoof369]

There are many people who agree that they need to infertilize their cat/dog and they think ethical, so to me its the same thing with humanity like its unethical to bring a child into the world for more pollution and pain.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

The main thing with pets is fluids.

[@c_n_b]

I still have so many things I need to sort out in my own life, it would be cruel if I brought another life into existence, especially one that I don't want!

[@darkangel8922]

Your video is worth it and many more. You have not just found one but many who share the same view as you and are glad to have seen your video.

[@ebtsoby]

I'm a vegan studying astronomy and I don't want a child at the moment and never have in the past, but I could see this changing down the line, I'd probably adopt a child if I wanted one for the reasons you stated for not wanting to have a child

[@spacescienceguy]

Great to hear from another vegan in space science! And thank you for sharing :)

[@Billy-rr7re]

finding a different path, away from the pre defined one which, for some reason, most think is the only path. the path that was engraved in their head from birth by the world around them.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

Transhumanism seems like a pretty cool new path.

[@captainapollowilliam]

Having a child creates more suffering so therefore I'll never ever gonna impose on bringing a kid into this cruel world, its not worth it as too of our own lives have been imposed upon by the imposers who were selfish people who didn't think of the consqeuncise of their actions etc....

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

What is so bad about suffering?

[@nexuscross3233]

@@MilwaukeeF40C The "suffering" part.

[@joejackson7601]

Unfortunately, they were only thinking about Quenching their craving and desire for six... we're all here because 2 ppl NEEDED to quench their craving and desire for six... Nothing more

[@spacescienceguy]

What is your view on having a child?

[@MichaelExe]

Hard antinatalist (negative consequentialist), but actually undecided on the empirical question of whether it's in general better or worse for altruists to have children, as I discuss in my other comment. I think it could depend more on an individual's circumstances, so I'm not willing to make a claim either way. I also personally don't have any interest in having children myself, although I often find children (and animals) cute/interesting.

[@safaenabet8308]

I'm antinatalist, for me it's unethical. Thanks for the video.

[@oreki9505]

Immoral. Bringing a child into this world especially in 2020 is pure suicide

[@NomadOfOmelas]

I think it's unethical, and lean towards being convinced of the hard-anti position with respect to it all being a net-negative for the being brought into existence. Granted, it did take me diving in-depth into BNTHB to really understand the asymmetry argument, as my initial exposure to it on Sam Harris's podcast had me far from convinced, like Sam. All this said, it probably makes me a bit unique then in that I still plan to have children, multiple if I can..This is largely due to my disposition I would guess, which has come full circle on this question over the past decade. But in short, I haven't yet been convinced of the ultimate (all things considered) normative nature or 'morality'. While I think our religious histories have forced moral actions and ultimate normative guidance to coincide, by putting forth eternal consequences for acting morally/immorally, we still seem to be in a situation where I can accept something as immoral and act upon it anyways, with no damning contradiction that necessarily comes along. There has to be skin in the game to actually justify actions, which I think Hume alludes frequently, even so far as saying reason itself is slave to our passions/dispositions. Jonathan Haidt's work on how we mostly reason based on intuition rationalization would be a more contemporary source for this sort of thing. This, plus my current disposition distinct from your own, and reading works like Bryan Kaplan's, makes having kids seem like the rational move for most people (though of course not likely for someone like you, especially as your counterfactual with what you do with your saved money is so beyond laudable!!).

[@spacescienceguy]

@@NomadOfOmelas Thanks Dan! The asymmetry argument is hard for me to explain, and I definitely agree that you would need to read BNTHB to get the best case for it. Do you have anything in particular you'd recommend reading on that topic from Bryan Kaplan? Would you mind expanding on this: "But in short, I haven't yet been convinced of the ultimate (all things considered) normative nature or 'morality'." How does that lead you to wanting multiple children? Is it that you want children for the 'personal' reasons, or are there ethical reasons?

[@aja749]

I don't have an option to have a biological child but even if I did I wouldn't. It's selfish asf.

[@bernard7057]

How so?

[@bernard7057]

@@user-bq3pn8nh1r nice argument

[@bernard7057]

@@user-bq3pn8nh1r 👍

[@sunnysideissuperior6438]

@@user-bq3pn8nh1r is this how you expect people to agree with you? He’s asking a question mate

[@sunnysideissuperior6438]

It’s not selfish. It’s a natural thing. We were giving the ability to do so for a reason

[@juliacohen1620]

I agree with that comment. I don't judge the few that seem to thrive as parents. I always felt, however, that it was a difficult experience for my parents. They didn't enjoy it. However there is an argument that life is suffering and only a select few are grateful to be here, despite their suffering. My reasons for not having a child was I wasn't ready for the immense responsibility and I wanted to improve my life and my family that are already here. That will take a lifetime. A comment on the vid. A child with differences or disability can still change peoples lives.point is though. If we want to love a child, we are able to love a child from anywhere. We should be happy to do it on our own. Without grandparents or validation from others. Its a huge love that many will never understand. And many dont understand that they wont necessarily like their child or understand them.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

this lad is very wise and honest!

[@coweatsman]

I am childfree and now in my 60s. Given the imminent coming industrial and environmental collapse coming soon to some empty supermarket selves near you it was the right decision.

[@nevemsenki5084]

It's interesting that you're fully aware of the moral implications yet your main reason is financial. Here's my view: your mere existence in this world requires that you take resources and energy away from other life forms. So being born to a great humanitarian just means taking more away from others.

[@bernard7057]

Yes, but if you help produce and carry your own weight, than you help society and help maintain billions of humans lives. If you really cared about human life's then the best thing you could do is raise a productive member of society (e.g. doctor, engineer, etc.). What you just referenced is call the fixed pie fallacy.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

@@bernard7057 I'm an engineer. We developed a lot of O'Reilly's Auto Parts and that has helped poor people. Also did some Chick-Fil-As.

[@spacescienceguy]

Thank you for your support so far! I hope you found this video useful. I'm still working hard to make interesting videos about ethics and space science. Unfortunately I'm also unemployed right now. I really hate doing this, but if you want to help me make more videos like this, please consider making a small, once off donation here: www.buymeacoffee.com/mdello

[@DiversionG]

The best counter argument that I can think of against the arguments presented in this video is saying that there are more good people than bad people in the world, which statistically implies that if you were to have a child, they would have a higher chance of having a good impact on the world than a bad one, with the combined impact of the parent and the child being more than what the parent alone could have brought. If an adult has the resources to bring what would most likely be a net positive person to society that will have a net positive life (more happiness than suffering), it could be even argued that it is immoral for that person not to have a child. Not the nicest of things either, as it sort of implies billionaires should be having as many children as they can. I get the feeling that I'm missing something here I'm not very experienced on this matter in all honesty. Please do answer me if you have the time. Thanks in advance o/

[@spacescienceguy]

@@DiversionG Hey, I appreciate you sharing this! I can present some arguments in favour against yours. First, I think the question should not be 'would the average child be good rather than bad?', but rather 'what's the opportunity cost of having my child?'. Even if my child is good, if they only do a little good but cause me to do much less good, it wasn't ethical for me to have them. Second, I think there are a lot of 'good people' in the world, but I think many of them do more harm than good for various reasons. A 'good person' to me implies someone who would like to do good, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their impact on the world is a positive one.

[@brycemannn4847]

This is a really good example of how far someone can get off in their mind. For the same reason you should eat food : you should have kids…

[@spacescienceguy]

@@brycemannn4847 Because we'd only survive 3 to 5 days without them?

[@alivisualizeros1237]

@@DiversionG no, good and bad people does not exist. This dividing ios ilusion

[@Korewamo_daijobu]

I just found out I'm antinatalist minutes ago, I always wonder why people are born if we're going to suffer, why bringing a child into this world if you're going to neglect, abuse or r*pe them. My worst fear is getting rape then get pregnant, I'll never be a good mother, hell I can't even take care of myself. And even if I want kids I can just adopt, the only reason people want to have a child is for a miniture person of yourself and love one, a being you can place all expectation on and controll to your heart desire then expect them to take care of you in your old age. Life's not worth living anyway, I'm actually glad for the pandemic.

[@millenialmusings8451]

I'm an antinatalist as well. but I think that pleasure and pain are qualitatively different phenomenon.. so I don't think they cancel each other out. and so comparing them on the same weighing scale is like comparing apples to oranges.. therefore I think hedonistic utilitarian is a very simplistic view.

[@vanissaberg5824]

Another ethical reason I can think of is that having mental or genetic health problems that have a higher probability of being passed down to the child that could negatively effect their quality of life would be another reason I don't want to have a kid. Autism, ADHD, epilepsy, depression and anxiety all run in my family. The chance of me having a child with a disability is much higher and I don't think is worth the risk. And I know who hard it is to have to care for disabled children so that would also be a difficult situation if I was a parent of that child. I would of course be loving and giving them the best life I could possibly do if I was in that situation. But is it really worth the risk? All for the sake of having a child just because of wanting one?

[@Istindan]

Interesting points! How far do you extend this view? Do you think that no one should have children and therefore the human race should go extinct? What about all other life forms, should they go extinct? Would it be better if there was no conscious life on Earth and in the universe at all?

[@spacescienceguy]

I don't necessarily think that the human race should go extinct. I can think of some arguments for why that would be a good thing, but on balance I think it would be bad in the long run. I think that on the margin people today should not be having children. If I thought that everyone in the world would watch and follow the instructions of this video, I might say some thing like 'flip a coin, and if it's heads, don't have kids'.

[@matthewwoolhouse3829]

I have the same question. And I think this needs more attention. If the potential parents are antinatalists, then videos about being such would not be able to exist either. Perhaps this was addressed in the, should humans go extinct video? Perhaps when we evolve or merge with technology and suffering as measured as it is today no longer exists, then maybe in the long run it would be good? I don't know. All of this is meaningless without people. Maybe I've got the philosophy out of context and there is an assumption that there will always be more people? I really enjoy the content. I often think about adoption or doing a mentoring program for LGBT+ refugees. But, I wouldn't have children through surrogacy or anything similar.

[@kotare86]

@Jo Lisa Dukarić Yeah, we don't look back on the Jurassic age as being so terrible because there were no humans milling around.

[@stanaklol]

A utilitarian should accept the assymetry argument. I honestly think it's incoherent to say that a net-positive existance is even possible. Suffering/pain can be imposed on someone without prior conditions. Pleasure can only be achieved/felt by a person if they were already in some state of suffering - for example the frustration of an unsatisfied desire. Basically, you start at zero, then you experience some suffering - you go into the negative - and when this suffering is alleviated (e.g. when a desire is quenched), you experience pleasure, and go right back to zero. A being with no desires cannot experience pleasure, as pleasure can only come from the quenching of a desire.

[@lilvegan2002]

Very stood up position.