No, Swift is NOT dying... Response to Stefan Mischook - Google Flutter vs. Swift

[@seanallen]

Watch Next - iOS Take Home Project - Job Interview Practice - Free Preview - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4SslmWva6uYm5o

[@StaglyMusic]

He said his opinion. He never said ,,It is 100% true and there is no another option.". Stefan was just telling us to his point of view.

[@asoftraiden]

I am a mainly native and hybrid developer, I hate the hybrid for being very clunky, I am both native android and iOS developer the business decisions mostly is favoring low quality idiotic hybrid.

[@LetsBuildThatApp]

Its gettin' spicy. I like it.

[@Olden2610]

Hy Brian! It would be interesting to hear your opinion about this topic :)

[@seanallen]

Haha, after the twitter convo last night, I decided to make do this video this morning. Reading through the comments so far, it looks like Stefan's video made plenty of people doubt native iOS development.

[@nikinlug]

Yep, Brian. What do you think about this stuff?

[@moosegoose1282]

Lets Build That App lmao

[@YonghuaChen-b9t]

吃瓜群众xd

[@filiplazov5895]

I work for a company that re-wrote an entire cordova app to native ios and android. All these silver bullet frameworks that work cross platform sound very promising at start but the more complicated an app gets is where you notice that you are going deep into a rabbit hole. Additionally I noticed since I started working with Swift (objc for long time before), my code has far less bugs and very few crashes because of the safety features the language provides.

[@seanallen]

Thanks for sharing that experience, Filip. I love hearing real world experience with these technologies (both good and bad).

[@dhirajghumare5149]

Please tell me iOS developer future because of hybrid app development

[@davidandreasson1434]

word :)

[@gillesashley9314]

Perfect.

[@adriatic123]

How complicated mobile app can get? 98% of those apps are not complicated, especially if we take into consider most popular ones

[@nordicvolkan]

Apple can easily said no more Hybrid apps will be approved to the app store from now on. Bam, the end of Hybrid apps.

[@natureloverspakistan]

hahaha... true .. then google will say no more public API's for ios developers

[@heeseok7792]

alpha junnon impossible

[@ramzyrashaun5186]

alpha junnon that’s impossible, google makes money from it

[@SriRam-fp1kt]

Apple had finally allowed PWA

[@HermanWillems]

Very good reason to NEVER EVER BUY APPLE. If you own an Apple product.. ditch it.

[@MikaelaCaron]

Great video Sean! And Apple is not the only big company using Swift. IBM is all for Swift on the server, and Google is now starting to use Swift for TensorFlow. Plus I see plenty of job postings requiring Swift knowledge.

[@seanallen]

Totally agree, Caleb!

[@lmfao7224]

Objective C isn’t dead, it just has no future

[@LohenYumnam]

Man when i saw that video i was so angry. It’s great that you reply on that video. He is miss guiding everyone.

[@PrathamPatel18]

There is no abandoning of ANY native language. Be it Swift, Kotlin, Java, C#, anything. Native stuff is sticking with us until that platform exists. And thanks Sean for making people aware about this. Love your efforts and videos.

[@CodingPhase]

I agree 100% I like Stefan Mischook and I like your channel (just found it)... I think everyone should do their own research. Not everyone gives the right opinion lol This happens with PHP, Ruby on Rails, .NET, etc... people say its dead but its not the truth.

[@seanallen]

Yup. That's really what it boils down to. Take in opposing viewpoints, do your own research, then make an informed decision.

[@collinsodeny]

@CodingPhase i agree with you

[@shadidhaque1009]

Its joe :)

[@byaruhaf]

Stefan confuses his Feelings as Facts, Thanks Sean for your fact-based responses.

[@andyyhope]

The guy is also trying to sell his web programming course. His video has the potential to boost sales towards his product. Sooo, people should probably take his word with a grain of salt.

[@seanallen]

Agreed. Unfortunately, many people don’t do that extra level of digging to see where the incentives are. Thanks for pointing that out, Andyy. When we getting that beer?

[@simrandotdev]

I will say, a person who teaches PHP in 2018, you should not listen to that person at all.

[@BelieveInPeople121]

Simranpreet Singh, you are doing the same thing as stefan now...

[@jimjs5672]

On that sentiment, is webdev and the focus on the fundamentals (html5, css, just, php) foolish in 2018? Stephan spouts that there's this HUGE demand for freelance webdev....it's just hard to believe...

[@EmadApple]

Jim S i bought his course 😄 and i am now switching to swift coz freelance is not easy even with basic php

[@John-vb5or]

Great points Sean. Seems like too many “developers” on YT put out content about developing despite never writing a line of code in their vids. Just gonna stick with the power triangle of mobile developers: Sean, Brian, and Mark Moeykens, and block out all the other b/s. Traversy is solid for web dev tho.

[@TheHermitHacker]

If you want some really intense programming sessions, check out Bisqwit on KZbin. That guy is hardcore. Can't get enough of that one.

[@JasonMitchellAZ]

Thanks for setting the record straight, Sean. I agree, I don't see Swift going away anytime soon! 👍

[@CodeByRachelle]

Not soon, but eventually...

[@blueslimee]

@@CodeByRachelle At this point, I don't think so. Apple has invested a lot in Swift and it's growing pretty fast. You can already use it in server-side, target embedded systems and even Google supports it (with Swift for TensorFlow). And, even if it starts to die, Apple can easily revive it. They're the biggest tech company, they can basically do almost anything.

[@CodeByRachelle]

@@blueslimee Yeah, well...you might be right about that.

[@jpavakian]

Respect to the way you responded to that vid. Thumbs up.

[@seanallen]

Thanks Jean-Pierre!

[@gordonw8992]

This video aged well, Swift is not dying at all.

[@seanallen]

Not at all...

[@ayon3527]

Really nice point sean. You know what worries me most is that when one programmer wants to do it all. Thats why we see these framework popping out from everywhere. Web developers wants to do everything with one code base and let others watch I suppose

[@seanallen]

There is no silver bullet.

[@davidandreasson1434]

This is a common subject and pretty fun to discuss, I went from web development to native, just because I hated the fact that I needed to learn a new framework for every project I skipped in to, every new project was using a different frameworks and it had pros and cons, but I never learned the framework so I could use its full potential, when I was comfortable with the structure there was a new framework knocking on the door. I now write in pure swift and i'm comfortable with the code, structure and framework and I do not need to worry about a new framework thats popping up every single week. Thanks for being my true Swift hero Sean!!

[@_DeProgrammer]

I honestly think he was just trying to click bait. He obviously didn't do any research on the topic or he would of found that swift is actually picking up steam. It's a shame for all the newbies that will make career choices based on this. Very irresponsible of him.

[@seanallen]

That thought crossed my mind, and is initially why I didn’t respond. However, if it was clickbait, it worked because I got a few serious questions about it.

[@faheemnawaz3350]

Haha, this guy phillip carlino commented there in that other video also but he didn't get a positive response, he is a swift developer and now he is here commenting shit, hahaha i like that

[@AgozieAni]

I unsubscribed from his channel 3 months ago. I thought he was too biased towards PHP.

[@AgozieAni]

@@GuiltyNoticer Every single website? You must be a dick head from the past.

[@michellewilliams1090]

There's also nothing wrong with Ruby on Rails. I've had two jobs that were based on Ruby on Rails

[@JeffMason0831]

Thank you for your measured, fact based response. How many times over the past 30 years have we had this discussion.

[@JoseGarcia-vr8mx]

Thank you Sean for the information and your point of view! I am a web-developer, I use HTML, CSS, Javascript, and PHP to write my web apps. I recently started to pick up Swift and find it to be extremely easy to learn, specially when you know Javascript or PHP OOP. By adding Swift to my repertoire I expand my knowledge base, refresh some programing concepts and I can see new doors of opportunities in the horizon. Thank you for always providing good information!

[@seanallen]

Happy you liked it, Jose! I'm not a fan of how this question turns into a "war". There are business cases for both, and knowing how to do both will only make you better!

[@kanstantsin-bucha]

Now 4 years later we see that Swift is alive and shiny

[@seanallen]

💪

[@wanted47]

Hey Sean. Thanks for some clarity. I really like the way were being transparent on this topic. Your channel has inspired me a lot! I started learning to code six months ago with zero background experience. Since then I have been jumping from one language to another.I did a bit of HTML, CSS, JS, JQuery, and Python. I started coding with Swift over a month ago and I have decided to stick with it. My goal is to become an iOS Developer within the next 18 months. I must admit that Stefan's video also put some doubts in my mind after I watched it some days ago. I have learned a lot from his channel as well. I did some research as you suggested and I found out that iOS development with Swift has just begun and is going nowhere. We are in the tech industry and things change dramatically fast. However, as we all know, Apple knows how and when to react when technology is evolving. I strongly believe that Swift is in good hands. Keep up the good work Sir! Greetings from Germany.

[@seanallen]

Thanks Nathaniel! Happy to help get you going in Swift.

[@TheSaver23]

Omg thank you sooooo much for this , after i watched stef’s vid i was about to drop ios from my mind and go all in on flutter, but i went and asked about it on twitter and i got more and more confused , but this helped aloooot ty ❤️❤️

[@seanallen]

Happy to help. Always best to get multiple viewpoints and do some of your own research before making a major decision like that.

[@TheSaver23]

i will do that from now on, im fairly new to programming (sophomore SE student ), im in a "picking a path to dive into" phase thats why a video like that one could easily change my mind, but thats gonna change from now on, thanks 2 u :)

[@davidandreasson1434]

Go your own way, do not listen to "neeew javascript technology will concur the world", Its a trap - Admiral Ackbar

[@SMC247]

Hehe, phonegap, I mean I kinda like Stefan but yeah, his info is flat out wrong! No serious companies would use phonegap / cordova, we do like Xamarin (Visual Studio) for SOME cross-platform things, but I know that when it comes to apps for large high street brands, the legacy code is Objective-C and we are all basically transitioning to Swift now that it has stabilized. Yes the core software design principles carry forward between your proper languages, but yeah... I really not sure where Stefan is getting his ideas from these days. Indeed I happen to know of plans for Swift to expand out of the iOS platform and start to be used for Android devices etc, server side swift is also a thing.

[@seanallen]

Agreed. I have nothing against Stefan at all, and I hope this doesn't come off as an attack. I just felt the information was wrong, and I was getting a lot of messages from junior devs that were getting worried because of his video.

[@fordee1964]

Yeah, I laughed when I heard PhoneGap and Cordova. It really ruins his credibility because anyone who knows anything knows that nobody has used those platforms for years. Swift is being used outside of the Apple ecosystems (I have dabbled with Vapor). I haven't heard of Swift for Android and would wonder how that would work. How would Swift play nice with the JVM? Especially considering the JVM doesn't support value-type structs...

[@fordee1964]

I had a search for Swift on Android and found cross-platform SCADE from the guys at PerfectSoft. Still early days, but looks pretty good.

[@foulplay2]

I definitely agree that I don't see many openings for phonegap/cordova, but I see a ton in Metro Detroit for React Native. I get probably 4-5 messages from recruiters every week for positions in Metro Detroit. imgur.com/61s21go

[@SMC247]

Just out of interest, what statistics is it you refer to as I would like to look into them more? When you say "Swift adoption" do you mean the percentage of top companies using it?

[@coolisfoolable]

Stefan: "i've heard" "i'm hearing" "many people"... that's THE definition of hearsay

[@projectrooster]

Spotify is native (iOS)and written with Objective-C ...

[@alphabetical2671]

Yesterday when I saw his video I was so scared thank for this video you are the real advisor thank you so much

[@seanallen]

Happy to help clear things up, Irshad!

[@israelmanzo8725]

We, as developers will be retired in the next years, also Stefan and whoever agrees with him.., BUT Swift and all the native languages are still going to be out there for many more years. Apple grown every time and with it their products "Hardware and Software". We can't swim against the current. I respect all technologies, I am myself Web as Mobile developer as well. You had great response Sean.

[@seanallen]

Thanks Israel!

[@alistairholmes3825]

Well done for clearing that up. It's good to back what you say with stats and relevant info, compared to just sharing your own thoughts and opinions.

[@seanallen]

💯

[@TheCarlosAlfaro]

I totally agree when you say you rather tied yourself to apple than to a non-native framework.

[@jscorpio1987]

I know I’m a little late I watched Stefan’s video a couple weeks ago and was starting to second guess my decision to learn app development. Started trying to learn web development instead but I hate it! Lol. I found this video at the perfect time. Thank you! Made me realize I shouldn’t base my life decisions on some grumpy old man’s opinion.

[@seanallen]

Happy it helped. The lesson here is to do your own extensive research.

[@azukamojume2718]

Thanks. Your VCR analogy has convinced me that diving deeper into swift isn't a bad idea.

[@freshapplenews5076]

Ah I used to follow stef few months ago but when he made a video about Windows and how superior it is than Mac I unsubscribed his channel right away, glad I took a right decision. By the way I totally agree with your video.

[@LohenYumnam]

freshapplenews nice one man 😀

[@freshapplenews5076]

thanks lohen

Good response. There’s always room for a native development. It’s the only way if you want to get the best performance out of any platform.

[@ryansfamily]

Thanks. I’ve been studying swift on Udemy now for a year and really enjoying myself. Your feedback to that video has given me a lot of confidence that I made the right decision and not wasting my time.

[@seanallen]

Happy to hear that. That's the reason I made the video. I felt he was scaring a lot of people.

[@krutomjer]

Every time a new js framework comes out, the hordes of js "developers" tell of the native's doom.

[@DaDarkJokaa]

Nice video! I agree people should research more into topics and not make career choices based off of a video one person made.

[@gjermundification]

When you have the same user experience on Android and iOS; you know they used Cross deployment approaches, this is usually a bit worse than the potential for each platform; sometimes disasterous.

[@tananta29]

Seems like there are actually 2 discussions here: Swift vs. other languages and native vs. hybrid dev. One can argue that Swift may fade in popularity and use like Obj-C, but Native vs. Hybrid dev has and will always be a trade off between quality and new technologies required for a project.

[@ianschoenrock2285]

As a Xamarin developer I loved this. Any non-native developer knows that in order to be good at mobile development you have to know native regardless. You don't have to be an expert, but I would be very uncomfortable working on a Xamarin.iOS project with someone who never built apps in Xcode.

[@seanallen]

Well said, Ian. Thanks for sharing your thoughts from the perspective of a Xamarin developer 👍

[@pawelcichonski4756]

Hey Sean, thanks for your video. Im a ex flash programmer and ive been through actionscript before adobe bought it, learned how to program using flash / flex and the language is dead now. Was it a wasted time? Absolutely not, ive adapted to new things and ive already matured in oop / design patterns so it was easier for me to start from scatch in different languagr. Ive also made money doing flash websites :). Nothing is certain in life, its better to give your best now with whatever tool you have. Like Steve once said in the interview, everybody should learn a programming language. Its a great mind exercise... never a waste of time...

[@seanallen]

Thanks for sharing your experience. As I mention in the video, once you've learned one programming language or platform, the switching costs to a new platform aren't that high and the learnings will be valuable.

[@eliasf.fyksen5838]

Great video. Ive been a subscriber to Stefan for a long time, but I love critic videos of the people I follow. It kind of plants my feet on the ground again :) More people should be able to make respectable critic, like this. Keep it up my good sir :)

[@seanallen]

Thanks for the kind words, Elias. I have no ill will towards Stefan at all. Just disagreed with some of his points.

[@RealManoylo]

I switched from ionic to native recently, because the app grew so much and hybrid approach couldn't do what we needed. After comparing both apps side by side - ionic app feels odd.

[@seanallen]

This seems to be s common sentiment. Thanks for sharing your insights!

[@BelieveInPeople121]

thank you clearing that for juniors like me. miss information like this affects our decisions.

[@seanallen]

That's why I wanted to make the video. But the most important thing is to do your own research as well. Research the top companies you'd like to work for, and then see what technology stack they are using.

[@drnycmedia]

*Totally agree Sean! Plus, Swift was created by Apple to streamline development. Apple is THE largest tech company right now with THE largest/dominant App store. Common sense would've told this guy thst they wouldn't do away with their new, simplified coding platform for their dev community!* 😂😂😂💙🍺🍻🍺

[@dimiutube]

Hey Sean! I'm watching this video 2 years after it came out and Swift is still there and it is growing and expanding to other platforms like Linux and Windows. I did a lot of cross platform development with Ionic and React Native since then and in my perspective it still is a tradeoff and a business decision to use it. I'm still happy to deal with the platform directly, either iOS/MacOS, Android or Linux.

[@seanallen]

Well said.

[@khaya_was_taken_]

Pls upload more, love hearing u talk about anything software

[@seanallen]

Thanks! I have a full-time job, but I do my best to upload a couple videos per week.

[@chriss2295]

I like Linux a lot. That doesn’t mean it will be in same category as the big 2. In this biz you change with the times.

[@firstjamesryu]

Man, that Mischook guy was a real buzzkill. Everything is okay again though. Thanks Sean.

[@seanallen]

Glad I could help lift ya back up, James, lol

[@delalias5754]

I think everyone forgot to mention swift is not just for iphone applications! Apple watch, Apple Tv, MacOs, Mac server, RxSwift also it comes with machine learning and AI AR.. not many 2 in one smartphone language are able to do that...

[@kps2642]

lol im a react native developer and I think swift isn't going anywhere, pretty cool language

[@scigama71]

Kotlin and swift are very similar. It's worth it for your first app is to go native so u can learn the platform

[@seanallen]

Good point.

[@TheN8ism]

“Most big companies, from what I’m hearing...”. Also “Hybrid Apps, I imagine...” So this dudes video is all a bunch of hearsay and imagination? Sounds credible.

[@slavo_3]

I agree with you, finally someone said true!!! Native will always will be Native

[@korsveien]

I’m not a pro dev but in sales and marketing. I’ve seen so many examples of companies choosing “cheap and easy” solutions for their first app/website or technology only to run into problems when they want to go to version 1.1 of their app or web thing. Then everything has to be rewritten and start from scratch making things way more expensive than sticking to native / professional backed up dev software from the start. Sean has a great point. Microsoft, Apple and all the other big players will always be there. I’ll rather bet my career on them than some “cool” new ting that may be dead in 3 years. I have also done it recruiting. My advice is learn a native or well established language well, then you can learn Phonegap or the latest new hot thing later if you need it.

[@seanallen]

I've seen this play out in the startup world as well.

[@korsveien]

Start-ups are the worst because their short of cash and want a "minimum viable product" fast.

[@artificial-alex01101]

Working as a mobile developer I found that my employer favored React native over traditional native development, as did the consulting firm they brought in, as do I for my personal business plans. There are some good points in this video and people who enjoy working with Swift should by all means continue, but at the same time the incentive that Stefan is referring to is very real.

[@seanallen]

Thanks for sharing Alex. As I mention in the video, I'm not arguing native vs. non-native development. I believe there are enough business cases so that both are viable (as you are seeing with your personal business and employer). I responded to 2 major points that were false. When he says most major companies (I took this to mean the top apps) do not write native apps and that hybrid apps are dominating the app space. Both are just false. Again... this wasn't about the viability of native vs. non-native. Although, the some of the comments have devolved to that.

[@pushingprimitives]

It's interesting coming to this video over a year later. Still no signs of phonegap and the gang taking over. I'm a web dev, so I wish they would but man, they are fine for the basics but anything else you need to go low level.

[@seanallen]

That seems to be the common case with the cross platform stuff. Great for small projects... but once you start getting really complex, they become tough to work with.

[@RightToSelfDefense]

Sean, this is November 2019. Has the opinions changed in the last year? Has the situation proven one way or another in the debate between Native Application Development vs Non-Native Application Development?

[@seanallen]

Just rewatched this. My opinions are still the same.

[@richardmiho]

thank you for nicely construct reply and really points on your experience of interviewing at companies or native v hybrid. "I don't have the exact statistics, but I'd image..." that sums it all up for me. I do have to admit though that I've been playing with Flutter and so far it is actually quite good. I'm sure that along with myself the rest of the community would be interested on you views on Flutter.

[@seanallen]

For sure, Richard. Like I say in the video, this isn't about native vs. non-native. Both have their time and place based on business needs.

[@이준형-j7r]

As a previous react js developer, it was pretty easy to pick react native and built simple apps with it. However, if you want to go one step further, it is nearly impossible to build sophisticated and having great UI/UX apps with react native. Some people are saying it's for "both" platform and keep talking like "Write once, Deploy everywhere" kind of stuff but it's not true. I believe Swift and Kotlin are the future language of native development, not Cordova, React native, flutter, Xamarin etc.

[@seanallen]

Thanks for sharing your insights as a JS dev. Very helpful 👍

[@gdj777]

Learn from the experience of others but also think for yourself. Throw away the bad. Keep the good

[@seanallen]

I agree completely. Listen to many points of views, and make your own decision from there.

[@ranjeetraushanofficial]

You told everything right things here Sean . It's really a great stuff to remove negative things from developers mind about cross plateform ...

[@seanallen]

Thanks Ranjeet! Glad you liked the video

[@jammy2003]

iOS development will lose all its charm if native development vanishes. Nah, that is not happening and Swift is barely 4 years old - it'll stay for quite some time for sure. Thanks for the video Sean, you rock!

[@seanallen]

Agreed. 💪

[@steverobertson9337]

Excellent and timely video. I just watched Stefan's video last night and it did make me wonder if I should continue learning Swift. But I agree with you that what I have learned or will learn of Swift should make it much easier to learn Dart. I could see companies that don't yet have an app wanting to use Flutter so probably would be best to learn both. Thanks for making this helpful (and tactful) video.

[@seanallen]

Glad you enjoyed it Steve! You're the exact person I wanted to see this video. After seeing Stefan's video, I was worried people would be making decisions based on misinformation.

[@discerningacumen]

Learning a new language is a choice. I mastered lots of languages, from Basic, Fortran, C, C++, C#, Objective-C, Swift, Javascript, not to mention SQL, Zsh, Bash, etc. My recent game is done in Swift. And I'm adding python to the list recently. It does not take a long time for me to master a language: 1-3 months is enough once you mastered one good language. I think what makes you better is understanding the new design paradigm and the ability to leverage between paradigm for a specific project. Language is not the issue. Every language has its own benefits and weaknesses.

[@ohs3099]

Thanks for the information. I was super confused after watching that video.

[@seanallen]

Glad I could help!

[@rigoblues]

When Stefan says that performance is not an issue anymore for web apps, man... this guy lacks any context, does he even develops?

[@mohamedkhodary7831]

You’ve read my mind my friend 👌🏻

[@joelborja9434]

Thanks Sean, i saw also his video but i stick in learning swift.. :D

[@williamhuang6067]

I used to be stefan fans, but until I found out that he’s such a narrow minded person, I decided not to follow up his information and I just want to say that stefen is not a technology, he just a short-minded human that speaks out what comes out from his mind. Back then when he said ruby is dead, he got many criticisms , and the fact ruby is still fine up until now. only depends on your objective of building apps Don’t just make a decision after you listen from other people that might have a lot of experiences from you, because they just a reference to yourself. you have to explore it by yourself, if you find it convenient, and might have a bright future, keeps learn it. y

[@vinayakpaul2251]

Being an ios developer I don’t want to get biased too but im proudly say that swift gives you freedom and that flows that every developer wished for.... cheers for swift fellas

[@seanallen]

👍

[@smilebot484]

He’s a web dev. Anyhow native will be more not less important as the stack gets ever more complex. Right now there is no decent 3rd party solution and there have been 10 years to get it right. So I’m not sure what he’s talking about. React native is a bunch of crap as are all these other solutions. Companies who do a bit of research will find that native is cheaper in the long run and they will have a way better product in the end. But don’t tie yourself to one company’s fortunes if you can help it. Since he’s a web developer those nonnative projects are all he sees. So he’s generalizing based on what he sees and wants to see.

[@Neoclassicalmaese]

Could not agree more. What I greatly dislike about Stefan in regards to his opinions is that they do have this on (almost) all of his videos: "I don't know much about it because I do not work with it nor have I used it. But no one uses it, use this" It does not work that way. I have yet to see a place in which hybrid apps had taken over native, and saying that Swift is going down is a huge stretch. He does the same thing to the RoR framework and the Ruby language. It's incredible. "I don't have the exact statistics"...come on man.

[@RealManoylo]

Enrique Arzamendi true. It's annoying when he's bashing RoR and ruby for no good reason. But hey, gotta sell a php course right :)

[@Neoclassicalmaese]

Marko Manojlovic exactly! That kind of content is garbage and does not help anyone with making sound decissions.

[@kenshin6553]

At least he's honest about the fact that he has literally no idea what he's talking about, but then it's also baffling that he has such a following. I'm guessing his audience is mostly non-developers looking to make a quick buck taking the path of least resistance to a passable product

[@SLCoderEgowithCoding]

You are 100% right. I love Flutter but I don't think Swift or Kotlin or Java going to be die. Because Flutter framework use Swift or Objective C for IOS apps and Java or Kotlin for Android(You can choose the language). Also Dart cannot replace the Javascript. Dart is like C, Java, Javascript. But you are right with Flutter is a game changer because there will be no reason for using other languages(Kotling, Swift) to build only apps(To build plugins you have to choose those languages).

[@Paul_Jones]

This video made me normal again :) Thanks Sean !!!

[@seanallen]

Happy to help, Paul!

[@quickfingers5982]

Where can I find most recent stats/numbers of native vs non native that you showed?

[@TheShagans]

Lol, Swift isn’t going anywhere. Native isn’t going anywhere.

[@omjesustakethewheel]

as a programmer, you shouldn't be restricted to only writing code in certain languages, plus most design schemas and architecture are quite similar. Hybrid is widely used, but can be a headache with super advanced development needs, PWA's are less of a headache of course, but also limited with functionality.

[@seanallen]

Yup, you certainly should be able to pick up more than one language. But it's also perfectly fine to have a preference and look for jobs in certain languages.

[@MegaBlizzardman]

I like some of Stefan's videos but I think a lot of his opinions are kind of off base. Especially his ongoing commentary that if you are a node.js developer you are somehow a "hipster" who only follows fashionable tech.

[@sebastianbauer5332]

Thanks for this video. I totally agree. Coming from the web development I'm not a big friend of using JavaScript for everything. But actually Dart feels not really bad for a mobile app. Since Flutter takes another approach with it's user space UI drawing, I'm wondering what an iOS expert is saying about this compared to a "real native" app. Flutters concept for building an UI looks very powerful.

[@seanallen]

I'm curious to see how Flutter plays out. It's still SUPER early. I'll give it more time to mature before fully judging it.

[@Olden2610]

By The Way: At 4:10 - you're showing diagram (not sure about correct english name of it). It would be amazing, if you provide link to it (wanna show it to my JS fellow who's swearing me for learning Swift instead JS :) )

[@seanallen]

It’s in the description 😀

[@Olden2610]

Sorry :) Checked it before wrighting a comment :) Gotta pay more attention in future ;) Thanks again!

[@keshavejat]

03:00 how you can write your app half in hybrid and half in native. Can you provide some POC, tutorial or something which show how to achieve this. Asking this question in context of android.

[@aaronmendez9284]

HEY SEAN! I mayyyy be moving to California sometime this year, any chance you'll ever do like a developer/youtube/stream meetup with fans? I'd love to see you one day and get a round of basketball haha! Also I LOVE the growth man I watch every video since the beginning when you taught me the difference of structs and classes. IT WAS KILLING ME until I found this channel :) Keep up the great work!

[@seanallen]

I've been kicking around the idea of a meetup... would like to do it around some iOS dev event that takes place here in the bay area. Something like WWDC (although I can't do it this year).

[@DevlogBill]

Hi Sean, for almost 1 year I've been using JavaScript and PHP to create CRUD apps, nothing major small projects and I am still learning these 2 technologies. For a couple of months, I've been thinking about making a simple mobile app. Which would be a health and fasting app, nothing to complicated just an app with a calendar and inputs where you can create a routine schedule and an app which would provide information on education for both exercising and fasting, this would be a hobby for me this app. My question since I never created a mobile app or never used widgets or plugins for creating a mobile app. Which has the least amount of a learning curve? Swift or Dart? Maybe you're not familiar with Dart? But I would value your opinion since you familiar with Swift and creating mobile apps. As an opinion what would be your recommendation as a personal project looking for the least number of headaches to create a mobile app for iPhone only, thank you Sean I appreciate your honesty and your opinion on the subject matter.

[@kundanmitra34]

Elite video.. Hybrid apps can never compete with native ones. Simple as that.. That guy is just trying to sell his course and earn money misleading people..

[@jsonkody]

Two days ago I thought same as you. Now I am not so sure, actually flutter is different technology than hybrid frameworks as we know them. Look at some good talk about how actually flutter work ;)

[@_deepak_joshi]

Don't know how one can say swift is going to die. May be they don't know about the swift . It is being used in other technologies other than apple development : 1. Used in tensorflow (Machine learning platform) www.tensorflow.org/community/swift 2. Server side production swift.org/server-apis/ See the chart in this website : www.altexsoft.com/blog/engineering/the-good-and-the-bad-of-swift-programming-language/ One who think swift will bound us to apple is not aware that swift is open source : github.com/apple/swift

[@HekaFOF]

The problem with all hybrid frameworks is that you will NEVER get the same quality, performance or control that you can get with native code. I think hybrid frameworks are good for apps that are in internal use for example.

[@putinninovacuna8976]

Funny... By native code u meant magical drag and drop xml... no way we are programmers we don't want drag and drop widgets but coding, flutter is everything code not just simple drag and drop xml

[@JR-yi5wb]

if you're selling ice cream everyone needs ice cream gloves.

[@RahulPahuja1991]

Can you create a video on iOS Development using Swift, Kotlin/Native , Flutter and React? in all the aspects

[@Tenly2009]

So - for someone who develops in Swift for the iPhone/iPad - and already has a couple of iOS-only apps completed - are there any shortcuts we can take to get our existing apps to run on Android devices also? Maybe some sort of converter that can open up an XCode project and do the bulk of the conversion for us - or some of the conversion? Or do we need to learn an additional language and start from scratch in Android Studio or Flutter?

[@seanallen]

No shortcuts that I know of, unfortunately

[@Tenly2009]

Sean Allen Ok, thanks - one more quick question (since I’ve never used Flutter). Would it be possible - not necessarily a good idea - but possible - to generate a project in Flutter, then import the iOS flutter output into XCode and add to that using Swift? For example - maybe I want the iOS version of my app to include an extra, native iOS feature that is not available yet in Flutter or Android (in a separate, additional ViewController). Can that be pretty easily done - or if you choose Flutter are you stuck with whatever Flutter supports.

[@iAmTheSquidThing]

Do you think Swift will gain much traction on Windows and Linux? Because it’s one of my favourite languages in its design. But it doesn’t seem to have much of an ecosystem, and depends heavily on old, proprietary Objective-C libraries.

[@seanallen]

Not in the near future. But this is just my speculation.

[@AlseyMiller]

I work with Swift on Android and Linux (ARM and x86). Also using it in IoT boards for commercial projects (Bluetooth Low Energy mainly). github.com/PureSwift Also don't forget TensorFlow getting Swift-exclusive features.

[@martinmuldoon8166]

I will say... I'm just finishing an app. I had no idea it was so complex and would take so long. Taking a breather...Haven't even begun to look at Kotlin and Android yet. Will probably have to outsource it. Developing for two platforms is tough. Hopefully I'll pick up Kotlin quickly given the Swift experience.

[@seanallen]

Thanks for sharing that Martin. Depending on your app/business you may be a good use case for a cross-platform app. If you're a single developer, then maintaining 2 codebases on 2 platforms is A LOT. As I say in the video, choosing native vs. non-native is a business decision unique to your situation.

[@martinmuldoon8166]

Hey Sean... I'm curios. In the companies you work for that are developing native... are there two project managers, one for Android, one for iOS? Or is there one project manager that knows both platforms?

[@seanallen]

On the projects that have been both iOS and Android, there has been one PM on it.

[@vladimirmikulic7860]

Hi Sean. I am Vladimir, coming from Croatia and must say I like your content and I totally agree with you. I just want to hear your opinion. What do you think about Flutter, I wasn't so optimistic at first(cause I am native Android dev), but other more professional devs than me tested it and I read a lot about it and people say that Flutter might be future, because building native app for every platform is expensive. What are your thoughts?

[@seanallen]

I think it's super early for Flutter. Too early to judge. Let it mature a bit.

[@vladimirmikulic7860]

Sean Allen Thanks.

[@pungkuss]

Flutter looks really promising, Swift is a beast and isn't going anywhere. Why does one thing have to kill another?

[@seanallen]

It certainly doesn't, Shamus. Like I mention in the video, which platform you choose is a business decision that is unique to each business. Both certainly have their use cases.

[@bonrind]

Apple is completely merging ios with macos in the coming years. The only language they plan to use is their own for development. Its never a better time to get into swift. Things like flutter are just adding yet another tool to your stack its not simplifying it.

[@anandnimje5750]

Great conclusion👍, anyway Swift will not die 😂😂 & don't want to go for Hybrid app development.

[@rebelsdeveloper367]

It just a tool, framework come and go. Even thou ,i'm using react-native. I still try to learn how to make same thing with native. Pro-claim react-native can settle all thing, it's kinda impossible.

[@kundanmitra34]

IDCMS APP you got the point. What native apps can do today, hybrid will do that like after 6 months. It's not even a debate..

[@henrykuzmick]

Regarding appfigure stats, wouldn't react native and flutter apps register as native?

[@xidd1]

If I know basic Android app development and basic Flutter too, and looking forward to learn more and become freelancer, what do you suggest? Native or Flutter?

[@JRDev4All]

My take on it is, it is a good idea to know both, how to build apps with native code and how to build apps with some other hybrid technology like react native.