The Story of Calia Menethil - Future Queen of the Forsaken? [Lore]

FOR THE LIGHT LADY!
WoWhead has been hard at work at datamining patch 8.2.5. A shiny new model for Calia has shown up, one that reflects the events of the novel Before the Storm. So what better reason to sit down and talk about Calia's story so far. How she became what she is today and what rol she might play in the future! I hope you'll enjoy ^_^
If you're looking for some more details on all the things we talked about today, check out this article:
www.wowhead.co...
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Want More Lore?!
The Story of Before the Storm: • The Story of Before th...
The Story of Sylvanas Windrunner: • The Story of Sylvanas ...
The Story of Genn Greymane: • The Story of Genn Grey...
The Story of Garrosh Hellscream: • The Story of Garrosh H...
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The music in this video is provided royalty free. (Creative Commons License)
Songs:The Path of the Goblin King
Music by: incompetech.com/
© 2001-2008 Kevin MacLeod
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[@sherrigofdenmark2823]

Calia Menethil: So I'm the queen of THIS dump?! What next.... Wrathion: Mommy?

[@nemanjajeremic2331]

People complain how weird her face is,well thats the kinda face you make when you realize your brother is the Lich king and your Husband is Deathwing.

[@moch.farisdzulfiqar6123]

Lmao 😂

[@TheNexusChronus]

I swear to Aman'Thul, you can't be a strong female character in this game without having an incredibly tragic love life - Calia, Jaina, (high hopes for Kalec), Jaina's mom, Alleria, Sylvannas, Vareesa, Moira, Agent Keeran, that worgen woman in the Alliance camp thing in WoD, even that one undead Warlock in the council of the black harvest that had a thing for Ebonlocke.

[@Ashod00]

@@TheNexusChronus What was Sylvanna's love tragedy? not familiar with it

[@justin1594]

@@Ashod00 Well she was getting shagged by Nathanos, and she went looking for him after he got killed. Not sure if that's a love tragedy but yeah.

[@honeyy9559]

@@TheNexusChronus nah

[@CadaverJunky8]

I love how this Calia Menethil woman was basically a literal who nobody background character in the lore UNTIL THEY NEEDED a quick last minute replacement for the evil queen they're about to kill off. "OH HEY GUYS IT'S CALIA MENETHIL!! Remember her?! She's your new hamfisted racial leader now! Pls love her."

[@strengs2391]

That birth scene tho!!!! 2:30 LOL!

[@TheNexusChronus]

Best nativity scene ever and don't you deny it!

[@TanTan-Tanaris.]

I like carrots

[@jeshika22]

looked for this comment! not disappointed!

[@ScottyEdwards801]

It really disappoints me how they've handled Sylvanas; her story could have been so much more. Personally, I'd stand with the Dark Lady because she's always been my favorite Horde leader and she's had the hardest backstory out of any WoW character in my opinion. Every hand she's been given in every situation has been absolute crap; doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. The impossible decisions she's had to make are a part of why I love her. I'll go with Pyro's hope that she's doing all of this for a reason and it's just another impossible decision that she's had to make that people with weaker wills wouldn't understand.

[@badrinath5306]

Nope peace ain't impossible.staying in the undercity like a crazed shut in isn't impossible.not killing the night elves isn't impossible.she had choices and surely in bfa she has chosen the more stupid and insensible ones.

[@ScottyEdwards801]

@@badrinath5306 I'd say that's jumping the gun. We don't know the reason behind it. TBH, though, I'd probably defect from the Horde to join the Dark Lady because I connect to her the most. Ever since I joined in Wrath, she's always been my favorite; I'll still trust that she had to make a tough call that no one else could make. Every horde leader has done some messed up stuff too; there's blood on everyone's hands.

[@MrVlad12340]

Scott Edwards there is no excuse or reason to genocide an entire race.

[@ScottyEdwards801]

@@MrVlad12340 Like what people did to them from the start? It's a kill or be killed universe for the most part. There's always a genocide happening. You think the humans haven't done their fair share of genocide?

[@MrVlad12340]

Scott Edwards no they havent lol. High elfs who are now blood elfs did. To the trolls. And undead attacked first... literally just play Warcraft 3 campaign , its all there. She killed Garithos despite him honoring their deal.

[@MrMortadelas]

The dude that sells cockroaches in UC has done more to help Lordaeron/Forsaken than Calia Menethil. The list of people that would make better Forsaken leaders includes Scarlet Crusaders because while they might hate us, at least they did something about it instead of fleeing to Southshore to listen to My Chemical Romance.

[@tychohero]

Sylvanas is probably gonna die, but I still hope she can find atonement for her soul.

[@KackfeeLP]

blizz wouldn´t dare to kill her

[@lolosh99]

The god knows how many elves that burned would like to have a word with you

[@MrGrilledcheeseits]

The reborn. The perfect name for an alliance version of the undead raised by the light.

[@fumarc4501]

I hope the Alliance doesn’t get Undead. Especially not Lightforged undead. They already get the Space Goats, Broken would have been better, and the Horde need a light allied race. But, thats jmo.

[@GarretDejiko]

20:29 Imagine the pitchforks this would have raised in 2019. God damn, I miss Garrosh

[@selalewow]

Light infused Forsaken and Dark infused Night Elves. Sounds interesting.

[@ainsleyharriot6060]

You mean Void Elves

[@selalewow]

@@ainsleyharriot6060 Actually I was thinking of the Night Warrior.

[@bluexephosfan123]

Forsaken can already be priests so thats sort of a thing

[@hanakogane2234]

@@bluexephosfan123 Undeads hurt themselves when they use holy magic in lore.

[@ShadyStranger]

@@hanakogane2234 I think that has more to do with their ambivalence as beings of death. I think that those who fully reembrace the Light don't have to deal with those issues.

[@strataseeker2981]

My hope remains to have Lillian take over the forsaken, transforming them into her own kind of crusaders against the other undead.

[@LinkLich]

here is a random person no forsaken really knows about, it's going to be the queen... great story.

[@Barragur]

Most people who know about lore know about her.

[@arthasmenethil4672]

She has a better story than Bran the Broken...

[@redrose1943]

@@Barragur There's nothing to know about her, because she's a nobody with a last name. She has literally never done anything in the lore and specially for the Forsaken in 15+ years. Might aswell make the Roach Vendor the leader, he's more recognizable.

[@LinkLich]

I would /kneel to the Roach Vendor any day

[@Stefanuslol]

@@arthasmenethil4672 Bran the Broken had his presence and role known from the beginning of the series and everything that happened was somewhat expected, except for the end which is a total fuck up. Calia has just been introduced in Legion for 5% of the playerbase to see, has not been seen by a majority of players in game up to this day and had not had any decent character development to justify taking a mantle as a leader of anything, let alone the forsaken...

[@markmikolay9019]

I'd pick true death over following that Menethil.

[@arcangleGabriel]

So if your playing a forsaken. You would rather fight for the elven bitch that abandoned your people in life, leaving all within lordaeron to their death. Than the rightful heir to your homeland in life. You have forgotten who you once where and you no longer deserve existence.

[@arcangleGabriel]

If their place in life matters nothing and what they were matters nothing. Then they have no rights to what they once were, owned, or lands to whom they belonged. If their lives as citizens of lordaeron matters nothing. Then more so than any other race they are monsters and should have been wiped out after their revenge against their traitor prince was done. If their lives before didnt matter then their original motivations should not exist.

[@fumarc4501]

The Forsaken deserve better then a tired old Banshee Queen they’ve long since outgrown. It’s time for the Forgiven.

[@thomasleonardis711]

It’s very hard to focus on what your saying when you put Illidan on in the background. I love the “I am my scars” cinematic. And had to rewind to listen to you because I zoned out on the cinematic. 😅

[@Xcyper33]

Why would Calia serve the Horde if she becomes leader of the Forsaken?

[@mateokostar4086]

I can't wait to say goodbye to one of the only interesting characters left. At least Sylvanas will live on in Classic.

[@unknownbenefactor8029]

The Classic is much more better and make sense than this new storyline it goes Garroshing all over again why can't the Alliance have a bad King because they are THE Alliance. The Horde always been the bad one. The one that always start a pointless war. The one that get Bad leader. They used to have a good leader once but people Thrall and Orgrim but in the record non of the Alliance leaders are the bad person ever in the first war they have Aduin Lothar in the second war they have King Therenas in the Third war they had Bovar Fordragon who was really good person and the next one are one of my favourite character King Varian Wryn but non of this character start the war with the Horde instead for unknown reasons the always start the war. I wonder why.

[@TheBayzent]

@@unknownbenefactor8029 To be honest, I'm an Alliance guy, and I fucking miss Arthas. A LOT. I wish we had crowned Sally Whitemane High Queen.

[@ainsleyharriot6060]

Not my queen

[@Stefanuslol]

@@Dreaddeamon I think that he means that Calia is not his queen, and I would have to agree with that.

[@MrVlad12340]

ComocosonoEWL portraying Light as evil is worst kind if pandering Blizz ever did.

[@asmongoldsmouth9839]

@@MrVlad12340 have you seen the Cinematic of what Naaru tries to do to Illidan? That is attempted rape. So FUCK the light!!. I like Alliance as much as Horde but the light is a twisted, corrupt, selfish conglomerate. And for the record, Horde doesn't mean evil. And Alliance doesn't mean good guys. Both groups fight for a cause. The alliance has just as dirty of a past as the horde in their lore. The horde are just ulgy or rotting or monsteous in appearance. That doesn't make them bad guys or evil. They had a lot of bad luck such as being exiled and left for dead from a pious hierarchy. So they banded together and rebuked the oppressive governing bodies and made their own societies and cities. It started with humans and orcs. The orcs were peaceful but they were turned against the humans after Sargeras tainted their minds.

[@sommerblume9671]

@ComocosonoEWL Dude are you ok. I keep seeing you seeking attention and spamming others comments just to disagree.

[@MrVlad12340]

Scrotum Monster uhu. And thats why “not bad guys Horde” now put a full blown genocide and war of extermination under their belt.

[@eaglefreedom5361]

Love your videos! So much fun to watch!

[@Kareszkoma]

The "honor" is the horde's Social Contract. It's most primitive rule. Without it, there are no laws, no leaders, no reason, no purpose and nothing that binds the horde together. Especially the Orcs and the Forsaken. The Goblins have Union, the Elfs standard high-rule, the Tauran a chieftancy and the Trolls tribemanship. But what do the orcs have? Warchief. The forsaken? A banshee Queen. None is permanent or estabilished outside of the founder, no rulling court, no rulling tradition. Just nomads or people banned together temporary. Would the founder die without a named heir, everything would fall in disarray.

[@hellgnome00100]

after 2 years, you are correct

[@kaneslives]

Calia as the new queen of the Forsaken? In the wise word(s) of Rogal Dorn. NO.

[@ethanhal2874]

There’s no way she will lead the horde forsaken, though it’s likely she will become the new queen of lorderan and lead forsaken members who have defected to the alliance

[@kaneslives]

Ethan Hal also extremely unlikely. The vast majority of the Alliance would never accept any Forsaken. Any attempt to try to integrate them would end in violence. Murders and disappearances of undead I'd wager.

[@toddmaccarone5973]

Okay, your response blending both the Warcraft and Warhammer universe- priceless. That being said, while I know that very few would accept Calia as the new Forsaken faction leader, she could (in fact) become the leader for a whole new faction in-game. Just saying. Who knows? It may not even be part of the classic "Alliance vs. Horde" set-up.

[@ethanhal2874]

Kargath Bladefist (WoD) idk, I think that would be a good thing, in the past the alliance has never really had much infighting. A new mostly unaccepted race could bring some new interesting conflict. Just imagine it, anduin is the type of person who would try new things and invite these new forsaken to the alliance, and at first the other leaders seem okay with it, but eventually they grow sick of the forsaken’s unusual way of life and start having huge prejudice against them. To me that seems like a great way to add some internal conflict to the alliance while also seeing some cool character growth from main characters who struggle to accept undead (like our very good boi genn greymane). Just my opinion though

[@kaneslives]

Todd Maccarone heh....thanks. Oh and I just got a shit idea... Tyrande is like Abaddon. A 10k year old failure blessed by gods. Melting Tyrande mosaic screams in distain : FUCK YOOOOOU!

[@ArchonKain]

Here's how it's gonna go, Jaina actually does make her brother light-saken, she shows Sylvanas that there is another way that doesn't use fucked up magic and sources to bring people back. She changes her mind with enough of us BEATING HER FUCKIN ASS then she listens to reason, forsaken faction grains 2 queen bee's and that nifty insignia gains the other half of the face of light-saken making a full face, one dark for the dark lady, and one light for the lady of the light. BOOM done finished and if that's actually what happens I want a GOD DAMN HIGHFIVE.

[@synthds3897]

the bigger issue of having calia lead the forsaken isn't people being unfamiliar with her its that her character doesn't fit. She's morally good, the people who play forsaken don't pick the race to be lead by the Horde's version of Anduin, they enjoy being at best chaotic neutral. Would be a HUGE mistake to have a morally good character lead the forsaken. Would legit ruin any race identity with the forsaken for a lot of players.

[@brunom7162]

You know you have the option to follow Sylvanas right? We'll probably have a third faction of undead leaded by Sylvanas and a segment of the Horde Forsaken leaded by Calia. So you can just choose the kind of Forsaken you want to be: a light one or a dark one. And Tyrande will probably left the Alliance as well and we will have another faction. So I'm okay with Calia being leader of the Horde Forsaken.

[@rachelwebster7750]

Forsaken is my favorite of the horde races, but after I read the book Before the Storm I will say that if I were actually into role playing I would have decided to leave the horde as Forsaken if I could. For a leader to kill her own people after making a big deal that they couldn't reproduce is just madness in my opinion. I think Calia would be better for the Forsaken, maybe the light could change them like they did for her and they wouldn't need the Val'kury anymore. That is just my opinion of the matter.

[@arcangleGabriel]

@ComocosonoEWL I think you dont get the point at all. The forsaken should have died when their purpose was fulfilled back at the end of wrath. The forsaken were the citizens of lordaeron, raised as mindless undead and then broken free from the lich kings control, on a quest to avenge their people's fall at the hands of the traitor prince Arthas. They did This. they fulfilled their purpose. Making more is just like Garrosh said: "Have you any idea what This means? What difference is there between you and the lich King now?" The answer? Nothing. She and her kind are now everything they fought. They are monsters deserving of the peace of death that they were once denied. Maybe in the end the light will show them mercy.

[@michellebrown7714]

hmmm splitting the forsaken is a possibility. Point in case : the forsaken exist in two forms : Forsaken and Dark Rangers, the dark rangers being former Elves, most of whom are from Quel'thalas during the time of the Scourge, making them a race far more willing to follow Sylvanas, than the former humans of Lordaeron. Perhaps the Forsaken splits into two factions, with Calia leading the former human forsaken and staying in the horde, whereas Sylvanas breaks away into a "Lich King Scourge" like faction with her dark rangers and valkyr, perhaps even siding with N'zoth, now that azshara is dead.

[@JamesKovuRussell]

Great job! I think Lillian could lead the Horde Forsaken and Calia could lead those who went to the Alliance.

[@Qureas]

Keeping new expansions focused on the common enemy would work well. They Have classic now for the world pvp and faction war. Seperate them to avoid having their own game compete for the same playerbase too much.

[@1110-s1t]

Underrated comment tbh

[@1110-s1t]

@ComocosonoEWL I think you missed his actual premise bro. The classic players are going to disproportionately be the "my faction uber alles" folk, and if they do keep moving forward with Retail, appealing to the "kiss and make up" people isn't such a bad strategy.

[@MrVlad12340]

ComocosonoEWL faction war makes no sense because it cant end, game will be forced to remain with TWO factions forever. It is like running a race where nobody can ever reach the finishing line. Plus Horde is so pumped up on that laughable, immature hatred that it is cringeworthy by now. Yes Blizz know how to stroke your “fire” , too bad they robbed Alliance of any desire for war by not letting us retaliate.

[@Qureas]

@ComocosonoEWL IF they continue with any sort of faction war they NEED to adress the lore problem. Where are all the soldiers coming from? Half way through BFA there was a cinematic where Anduin is told they have to send farmers next and there are only enough soldiers for 1 push at orgrimmar in the last cinematic. So unless they are really going down the route where everyone dies and become undead in order to fight the void then they need to have a long period of peace so that world npc population can rise again. This could be solved with the SW:TOR choice of removing the players from the story and do a time jump. Like we help Khadgar or the bronze dragonflight with a problem, get thrown 60+ years into the future where population is higher and tensions between the factions resoult in a new war. Hell even start it with a warcraft 4 and WoW 2.0 after it where we the heroes have to mop up the shitstorm.

[@Brandon860]

#NotMyQueen #ForTheDarkLady

[@darkgamer-vf4yu]

Yess

[@danielpirez381]

i couldn't imagine any less interesting leader for the forsaken.

[@nerdlord7209]

Calia will join the alliance and bring an allied race!

[@darkgamer-vf4yu]

No we dont need another freaking race for the alliance

[@redrose1943]

@@darkgamer-vf4yu As long as she stays the fuck away from the horde, I couldn't careless.

[@romulo2864]

never stupid!

[@kamikuru5398]

Yay I hope so!

[@mrstrgod78]

Well lightforged undead and nazjatar gilbin (or vulpera) as allied races the former one for alliance and tha later for the horde. Its seems preatty reasonable

[@megaprime4173]

Wow you called it calia might be leader now

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Wow. I didn't know that Arthas had a big sister. It is very unique and interesting. This woman was undead, but used by light. Maybe she could be the leader of a light kind of undead. The lightforged dranei is an allied race. I imagine that there can be something like that for Forsaken. I prefer these guys to be Horde. The Allience can have high elves. I really want to have playable high elves. Blood elves are awesome. Still I would like to have the high elf option. I am a big fan of elves.

[@DeePScharge]

No thank you. #NotMyQueen

[@Daradain]

Story cues like this is why I think WoW is moving to a three faction system (or rather two new pvp factions). Obviously Sylvanas can’t stay warchief but enough of the Horde (and player base) is loyal to her they would follow her into a war faction while Calia takes over as a new moderate ruler of the forsaken (and Baine as a moderate warchief). Meanwhile Tyrande and Gen will certainly not accept peace and will happily go rogue to keep the war going. This is all way too convenient

[@deardevildk]

i cant believe we have a second garrosh for horde and sylvanas maybe is the second garrosh(she tried to kill him)..blizzard makes the horde the bad guys ...i love sylvanas long live the queen ..nobbel pls work as a developer at blizzard

[@88Spint]

Isn't it strange how the leaders of our people just assume that the people will be okay with what ever they want for us. "Hey here is some long lost undead relatives, sure they are undead and some lack a jaw with exposed bones and joint... but uuhh... you gonna get along fine right? Right?

[@BangladeshMandalore]

Lillian Voss for the next Queen.

[@Fatalroadie]

GAMON FOR WARCHIEF! lol

[@mrvoodooman11]

So, my question is what dose salvanes own the banshees? Why did the banshees and how did they get into vol jins head? Blizzard has somthing BIG planed here. but with what just happend in hong kong idk if its going to happen they just lost megga profits and players... I myself am no longer giving Blizzard anymore money.

[@Skateordie193]

I am disappointed with a shiny undead leading the forsaken. I was hoping it'd be Lillian Voss but it seems like Blizz forgot she existed

[@phantomkrel2374]

So now we know at some point horde will get fleshed our undead types as a allied race so what will alliance get in the missing allied worgen slot.

[@Jerma66_]

I hate the fact that 2 expansions have been 2 horde leaders becoming "bad" like wtf? Garrosh was awesome and so is Sylvanas. They'll probably kill her too...

[@kingmalric9260]

Sylvanas becoming bad this expansion? She has always been evil since Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne.

[@Jerma66_]

@@kingmalric9260 i know she was bad, i meant that us, the player have to kill, reason why i said "BAD"

[@geodageo]

Its not propabable she will rule the forsaken,if Sylvannas dies at the end of BfA, but more likely the leader of an allied forsaken race

[@feditizaoui5617]

as a forsaken player there is no chance to have calia as my leader

[@MrVlad12340]

Fedi Tizaoui Horde also never expected slutvanas as a leader.

[@horrorkesh]

the alliance vs horde fight is ultimately pointless, a battle that could never end with a victory on either side, I say the war needs to end permanently

[@devincampbell5007]

and I say fuck faction neutrality

[@Hollowbarista]

update video please?

[@maltorian1258]

I want to believe Sylvanas is good, but after the entire fiasco with Saurfang I just can't. Calia Menethil would certainly be a wild card, however she doesn't know how the forsaken tend to think and act. She won't know the people she's taking leadership of, neither will her people know her. Not to mention that she was brought back by the Naaru. The Naaru have shown themselves to be completely 2-dimensional as in "If it's not white- it's black" kind of beings, so we don't know if she's an actual leader or a Trojan horse. But who knows? Maybe the entire thing is to get Greymane more riled up and finally rebel, because let's face it, Greymane doesn't want peace. He wants revenge and Anduin ain't man enough to hold his leash.

[@xen_ninj4]

MAN IT HAS TO BE LILIAN!!!!!!!!!!!! enough with the human or elf leaders! Lilian knows what is like to be a forsaken, to live as one, to suffer as one, to fight the dark inside you and make the right choice. Calia just rezed by light... she didnt fight for anything, she didnt got rejected from anyone, her family.... PLEASE BLIZZARD FOR ONCE GIVE US A TRUE FORSAKEN LEADER WITH BONE APPEARANCE LIKE WE ARE!!!!!! I BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LILLIAN VOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Nokturnt]

Hell yeah! I’m not forsaken, but I know that Lilian Voss is a badass!

[@cheese4746]

She’s not really a leader type though... I say double resurrect Putress

[@xen_ninj4]

ComocosonoEWL speak for your part. I'm Forsaken I embrace my bones and I'm proud as tank that I can handle bigass bosses. AND I JUST STAND ON MY AWSEOME BONES! We Forsaken. Beware the living and their flesh!

[@nothingyet120]

I dislike the lore not your video though

[@CJAFTER5]

Then you should like the video, he's just the messenger! AND DONT FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE *AND RING THAT NOTIFICATION BELL*

[@mittensfastpaw]

Ditto

[@Sannypowa]

So, Sylvanas rather than becoming a lightforged forsaken she allies herself with the Lich King and forms a new faction, the undead. Meanwhile the alliance gets a new race, Lightforged Forsaken. How about this?

[@RRRanTV]

4:24 When Loremaster Nobbel himself appears to save the day. P.S.: *Loremaster Nobbel as ingame character confirmed!*

[@dannyr548]

the voice at 18:30ish IS BWONSAMNDI DEATH LOA HE ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT THE LOA

[@Boosnjo]

She cant be daughter of taelia or women of Bolvar. You sad that they got separate at south shore after blight attack in cataclysm but Bolvar was "killed" before cataclysm

[@ChristinaI]

Oh hush with your logic. :D

[@nerujudep.capate2525]

Nobbel oh great one may I have one request may the ancestors be praised and please oh please give us the lore behind thrall how he came to power, up until the present this is my request oh great one.

[@KelsieMW]

There is only one Queen and that is Sylvanas! how dare you!!!

[@mc55filiz]

She will fall and I will enjoy it every moment of it!

[@KelsieMW]

@@mc55filiz Alliance ! and she won't sry

[@arti987100]

2:33 Now that's some quality shit right there

[@selalewow]

IKR it had me in tears 😂

[@TheNexusChronus]

Pure perfection

[@MrGoesBoom]

I hurt myself laughing when that popped up on my screen....fabulous quality as always Nobbel!

[@SnakeMajor]

I died there :D

[@qq-bo4jw]

Such a beautiful art i may have shed a tear or two

[@sarysa]

Lightforged Undead, the new allied race, unlocked by the player guiding the recently deceased t'Paartos through his reawakening ritual, following his tragic failure in trying to solo Queen Azshara.

[@CJAFTER5]

I don't think it will be an allied race, more likely it will be like the new Blood elves after the sunwell was repaired where they're just an eyecolor option in the character creation menu!

[@fumarc4501]

They will be a fine addition to the Horde.

[@sinamishmast2728]

@@fumarc4501 probably they're gonna be alliance new allied race

[@fumarc4501]

@Sina Mish Mast if they do, I hope we don’t get the Forsaken Night Elves. If anything, they’ll go with Sylvanas when she jumps ship.

[@Aus200]

Fucn bug

[@hunterkamptner3711]

"...was it not for Arthas getting cold feet" Omg xD lich king pun

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Yeah that was funny. Arthas also royally screwed over Lorderon. Get it. Arthas is a king, and his scourge caused so much devistation.

[@MegaChickenfish]

"The Forsaken's ruthless leader is a formidable champion of her people. But with the Burning Legion's invasion, the stakes for the Dark Lady have never been higher. Should Sylvanas perish, her demise will be the beginning of her eternal damnation. All that stand between her and this doom are her Val'kyr, yet few of these spirit guardians remain. As her fate edges closer to the abyss, Sylvanas must decide how far she'll go to protect her people... and whether they're more precious to her than her soul." -Legion summary of Sylvanas.

[@cvanims]

I think the subs would be MUCH higher if Blizzard found a way to get ALL of the story in front of ALL the players. The new cut scenes help a ton, but there's still so much you don't know if you don't place every class, both factions, etc..

[@mayabc333]

Not to mention the books and short stories

[@TheLocochico]

New "cutscenes" are off putting because they look like they are done for PS1

[@your-username-here2308]

No they help not, because they retcon a ton of things, or they make no sense at all. They are well made, no question, but the Story itself and how they write the Chars is just bad.

[@Nodie44]

Forsaken already been rejected by alliance. Because Alliance accept them as monstrosity. So will they accept today then? Forsaken named because their people don't accept them. If they join Alliance they named as Forsaken forsaken? Alliance hate undead before what changed today ? Blizzard please don't ruin all lore like that.

[@arthasmenethil4672]

They met their families outside stromgarde and some decided they could overcome their former judgement. It's called character growth.

[@spymasterk4873]

@@arthasmenethil4672 you said some but in truth it just few people

[@spymasterk4873]

death and life can be in some side

[@sushanalone]

2:31 THAT IS THE CREEPIEST THING I HAVE SEEN IN NOBBEL'S VIDEOS! Seriously is that how birth happens in WoW? A fully clothed and smiling 8yo coming gout of a restrained mother inside a decrepit inn surrounded by hostile mobs?

[@clairebear6502]

LOL

[@ReptilianTeaDrinker]

Nightmare fuel. Lmao!

[@bubblemonkeys]

Yes.

[@rramona88]

I am so done with Blizzard butchering the story of ever Horde faction leader just to force the 'muh war' narrative .

[@CHRSS111]

Agreed. I wonder if alliance will ever have such an obvious flaw...

[@hurotiz]

It makes sense that the Orcs and undead have such shortcomings. The orcs are like children who have just figured out they can walk, they are confused whether to follow the old ways or to forge a new path towards something else. Thrall is the representation of the new path, he chose to try to coexist and was ridiculed for it so he chose to give up his war-chief status. Garrosh was the epitome of the confusion as it ended with his madness and subsequent death. We all knew from the beginning that the undead only served themselves. Sylvanas only joined the horde as a way to build power for when she got her revenge on arthas. Where they went wrong was killing off vol’jin like they did. But after that, all the story so far was pretty predictable. Throughout wow the developers have been hinting that sylvanas needed to die as far back as the wrathgate. They just implemented it poorly. It doesn’t matter how anyone feels about it, the writers planned all this long ago, it’s just the implementation that is the problem. I feel like we are gearing towards the end now, where the horde and alliance come together as one big happy family.

[@mittensfastpaw]

@@CHRSS111 They should have with Jaina or Greymane considering their hatred was primed but Blizzard is rolling it back as usual in dumb ways.

[@rramona88]

@@hurotiz The only thing they have planned all along is to have constant nonsensical conflict just because they need to have the 'warcraft ' bit in the title . It doesn't excuse poor set up writing and just throwing character development out the window for a majority of the characters . Thrall was always interested in making peace with the alliance and coexisting this is why it made 0 sense for him to promote Garrosh as the new Warchief , but alas Blizzard needed to force the conflict so they had to make Thrall become dumb dumb all of the sudden and make the worst possible choice in passing the Warchief mantle . At this rate we will soon run out of leaders that they can ruin .

[@hurotiz]

Dreamscape I agree that wow has suffered from poor writing and I would have liked it better if sylvanas had gone out like the badass she is in wotlk against arthas but unfortunately they gave us this mess to deal with and I honestly think they wrote themselves into a corner lol. The current story writers are baffled how to get their story straight

[@TheChajni]

Banshee Queen Loyalists during next expansion: "Did you think we forgotten, Did you think we forgiven....."

[@maltorian1258]

@ComocosonoEWL Dude, you don't deserve to be part of the Horde with that way of thinking. The Horde is held together by honor, loyalty and mutual respect. Sylvanas has tarnished all of those. Honestly I vouched for Sylvanas, I was on her side, even after burning Teldrassil, because this is war. But to not give a damn about your allies just goes too far. She spat in Baine's face and tried to kill Saurfang several times. She's turning into Garrosh more and more. Soon enough she will say that the Forsaken are the top race and then we'll just have a better Garrosh. This is why I would rather follow Saurfang and Thrall, rather than serve a self-serving queen.

[@jacobnewell7845]

I blame blizzard for their poor handling of an amazing character

[@rhiannonz85]

YES! I WANT THE TRAITORS IMPALED ON THE SPIRES OF ORGRIMMAR!

[@MrVlad12340]

Demian Zivkovic good thinking. I can hand you a ladder, traitor. All banshee bitch bootlickers should be purged.

[@MrEcoho]

@@maltorian1258 saurfang should have been executed after letting malfurion go, that simple. the guy doesnt follow orders that go against his honor which end up getting people killed, fuck your honor, living is more important. baine pretty much betrayed everyone in the horde when he decided his honor was more important then winning the war by giving jaina her brother back, but hey i can even see that being forgiven if he had just said we wont win this way but we will still win, but he didnt do that he conspired with the enemy and a traitor so yeah he can go straight to hell cause his father would have fully bitch slapped him for his stupidity. Thrall is just an idiot, great leader yes, but an idiot. ill leave garrosh in charge because his dad was a "great" leader, i must kill him myself, i must go an recommune with the elements, or my personal favorite ive know sylvanas for years she a master tactician and good at assassination so of course she would send two rouges to kill me instead of a squad of dark rangers because that makes sense.........

[@Kristers_K]

Having Calia as the new Forsaken leader would be as much terrible as it would be cringe-worthy. Given how Calia was raised, the forces that are involved here, least thing we need is someone raised as some kind of perversion by the Light and other powers. Calia, or at least her body, now serves as a slave, as a vessel for foreign forces, such as Light..the Naaru, who seek to bend all living creatures them to enforce their 1-sided views. In short, Calia is bad news, really really bad news, not because she may become a leader, but because of what she has become herself, this Light-born ''undead'', a perversion, an abomination....and a puppet to forces we should never meddle with.

[@korsekil]

Yep. She's literally just a puppet for the Light. Not to mention she did shit all for the Forsaken and simply used her royal status to claim authority while Sylvanas actually fought for and led the Forsaken through their darkest hours - and made them what they are now rather than the Lich King's minions.

[@Kristers_K]

@@korsekil It's true, but regardless, Calia is one fucked up....whatever she even is now. The Light cannot raise ''undead'' so clearly there was some other force involved in her ressurection that we aren't aware of...yet. Suffice to say, Calia and what she embodies, is a danger to everyone, not just Horde.

[@arcangleGabriel]

From the perpective of a non undead player. Literally any thing is better than miss "morally Grey" The story of the forsaken ended in wrath as far as im concerned. They got their revenge and should have passed on. The dead should remain just that.

[@Kristers_K]

@@arcangleGabriel It's likely that they have found a new purpose to exist. The thing about the ''afterlife'' is that it's all darkness and torment for all eternity, especially in the case for undead, who's souls have been twisted by shadow. That is why Sylvanas seeks to find ways to live on, to prevent forsaken from dying out, because she has seen the afterlife, which is so horrific that it scares the shit out of even the baddest of the bad guys. Afterlife isn't peace in paradise, it's all darkness and suffering, dark entities tearing at your soul until nothing is left. So yes, better to stay undead, than to endure death. The only exception to that rule are devoted followers of the Light, or Nature, as seen by paladins and emerald dream, the rest, however, suffer in the Warcraft's version of hell.

[@Brakiros]

@@Kristers_K tainted light, an undead priest helped resurrect her and all their power is void tainted.

[@coryhafer7285]

Yes, on my RP Forsaken I always suggest Lilian be the leader.

[@cypher3621]

Future Queen of the Forsaken? Hell No!

[@dans.7002]

"Sylvanis cares about the Forsaken" (Watches war campaign ending cimatic) Yea about that.......

[@lolosh99]

“I did *pity* the forsaken” Yea..she didn’t REALLY care it was merely pity

[@zora_vox_noctum1169]

I mean she did until then

[@Lucifronz]

Light-risen or Lightforged undead would be a neat extra option for the Forsaken. People seem against the idea of Calia being the leader, and I kinda get it, especially as she doesn't even look like a typical Forsaken, but given some new Light-emanating undead roaming the halls of the Undercity (eventually we'll go back there, I'm sure), with less bones showing (we are getting those customization options soon in the next expansion and I wonder if this is why), it could feel like a more gradual transition and possibly even work in the long run. Sylvanas has got to go, though. The writers have set her up as too much of an antagonistic figure to ever be a leader in the Horde again. I'm tired of the Horde's instability. They're no longer a ragtag group of factions working together to survive, as they originally were in the start. They are a fully-fledged alliance of nations. They need to get their shit together so we can have more interesting stories that don't involve someone, somewhere, fucking up royally or being a total asshole to their own allies. It's. Boring. And way too over-played.

[@Archonnoir]

No thanks, we have our Dark Lady.

[@GraniteInTheFace]

Calia Menethil, agent and puppet of the light. We saw it in the Light Dranei, they were but toy soldiers dressed in shiny tin armor. Calia will have more in common with Sylvanas if she leads the forsaken and frankly Sylvannas and the Light can benefit each other very well. She wants eternal undeath and they seemingly want control of the toys. It wont be long until the time when "the light [will strike] a bargain with the enemy of" Alliance and Horde.

[@nevermore7285]

We saw that at least in the alternate world that the Light Forged, and evening the Naaru, can go the same as the Scarlet Crusade. Eventually there will probably be so servants of the Light who break away and try to create a Light Forged Titan or something.

[@madsword19]

@@nevermore7285 That would be something - all the running about we did to stop Fel and Void (and maybe Death?) from getting their paws on our world soul, and Light was sitting back going 'thanks suckers, we'll just pop in while you're busy'.

[@francescoporcari8597]

@@madsword19 You've left aside Arcane magic enemies (the opposite to Fel: order vs disorder), we've already tasted. So basically we still have to find out the dark side of light (pun intended) and life magic.

[@justin1594]

There are still people who act like Sylvanas has been this virtuous good girl before BfA lol

[@badrinath5306]

She was forgivable.doing things in a war already started.she attacked gilneas and Southshore for garrosh.She had a good explanation but now................

[@justin1594]

@@badrinath5306 Good explanations? She went behind Garrosh's back to raise more undead and blight Gilneas.

[@minolamycat91]

They totally fucked her character up in BFA.

[@justin1594]

@@minolamycat91 Explain. Because I see her as no different than back in Warcraft 3. How is what she's doing now any worse than idk...torturing and experimenting on horde members, conspiring with a demon, or trying to enslave all Val'kyr? It's all been to benefit herself.

[@minolamycat91]

@@justin1594 She's all hysterical and in love with that shit character Nathanos. I agree she always had the edgy bitch aura, but she was never like this.

[@wolfdreams3942]

...Who?

[@animelytical8354]

Anti-Warchief propaganda

[@ItCameFromTheSkyBeLo]

Until the end, Victory for Sylvannas!

[@Freeasacar]

You mean the actual lore from the game and other sources as put together by a lore expert? Not his fault if the actual facts make her look incredibly bad.

[@yoggsaron1484]

Sylvanas did nothing wrong

[@mrvasa8426]

Dark Lady watch over you my brother!

[@RileyRivalle2]

@Travithymia It's just a joke on the "did nothing wrong" fans, like how you'd jokingly comment "fake news" on something that's awkward for the subject of the article.

[@oblivexx]

I like to think Talea is Bolvar and Katrina's (Onyxia) daughter. That's right, a half human, half dragon gorgeous offspring

[@SalciusLinas]

But if her father wanted her to marry deathwing so is not like some sort of incest game of thrones thing?

[@oblivexx]

@@SalciusLinas what, who wanted to marry deathwing? Also Deathwing already did it, Alexstraza.

[@XxHrallundeadrogueXx]

we will fight Sylvanas then she will be put on trial then a bronze dragon will help her go back in time to take the Lich King Spot instead of Arthas and we return to Warcraft 3. Sound dumb? well its Blizzard its how there story logic seems to go anyways.

[@MrJustinArt]

Well, they've pretty much rehashed the story of MoP, so they might as well go the extra mile and copy WoD too.

[@Zenavesta]

Thrall then Garrosh then Vol Jin now Sylvanas. I vote not!

[@adamlaidler3998]

She deserves it

[@fumarc4501]

She doesn’t need to die to step down. Doesn’t mean she will allow that.

[@mattieonutube273]

@Miranda Durango Did you even read my reasoning for killing her? It has nothing to do with hating her she is evil.

[@kds6992]

@@mattieonutube273 so players kill millions ingame, and other leaders have killed thousands and thousands aswell. We dont need to loose another horde leader.

[@CarburetorThompson]

ComocosonoEWL this comment didn’t age well

[@LordMoonshadowGaGa]

Yeah, because the Forsaken would totally follow a Menethil again. Worked out so great the first time, right?

[@deathdoom8]

they only hate arthas, they actually love the others

[@yellowbeard1]

deathdoom8 The other Menethil’s? Are there any besides Calia and the father who Arthas stabbed? I haven’t been keeping up with all of the lore, only pieces of it.

[@Portergauge]

If she *has* to be a racial leader, ideally she just leads a group of newly raised undead on the Alliance. Just keep her as far away from the Forsaken as possible. Sylvanas is the face of the Forsaken, trying to replace her with a character who hasn't experienced any of their struggles would be a horrid story move, and destroy everything that makes the Forsaken a unique race.

[@Eric-sy1xu]

Plot armour is literally the least compelling story element you can even possibly conceive of. Blizz taking their SWEET time to kill off someone so CLEARLY destined to die for a final time is so incredibly telling that the Horde's fanbase want to keep Slyvanas because everyone drools over their undead goth waifu. Like come the fuck on she committed GENOCIDE FOR FUCKS SAKE HAVE BETTER TASTE IN WOMEN JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

[@orakuotaku]

@@Eric-sy1xu I mean genocide is hawt af tho

[@cynicalnitro8416]

Because her forsaken wouldn't be rotten, they would fit in just fine with the alliance.

[@DNAprophet]

Undead joining the ranks of the Alliance would be one of the worst moves ever. I've said this before, the only race that should never switch sides is the undead race. Historically the Alliance hated the undead more then any other race, by a mile. Even if they are making Anduin friendly towards them, the rest of the alliance should continue to dislike them, especially Worgens ,Night elves and Humans. People forget how they already tried rejoining the alliance and a good portion of them got killed, the rest escaped.

[@madness8897]

@@Eric-sy1xu dont care, think its good to have an evil race you can play, not in the mood to have happy rays and sunshine all the time.

[@WonderWyvern]

Never. Sylvanas is the leader of the Forsaken, always and forever.

[@arcangleGabriel]

Funny how minions never rebel huh. Every last forsaken is nothing but Another brick in her wall against death shes a cowardly revenge obsessed bitch. Who got her revenge and by that notion the conclusion of her reason for existence in the second expansion. You forsaken Are naught but misguided fools and shields for you waunted dark Lady. The scarlet crusaders have it right destroy all undead.

[@ZoubidaZoubidou]

@@arcangleGabriel yeah yeah keep talking over and over about it as we would care, may the dark lady watch over you anyway.

[@fumarc4501]

Times Change

[@Rokuns]

Here I thought BFA's shit story line couldn't get any worse, and yet again I am proven horribly wrong. "So who the fuck is Calia?" I hear everyone asking...oh she's just yet another ham fisted Alliance no one knows or gives a shit about who's now going to be the next leader for the Horde! Seriously round up every fucking writer you have, put them in a contained cell, and drop them into the deepest part of the fucking ocean...let them sink along with every hope the fans had of this being even a semi decent expansion! Seriously, what heroes do the horde have left to look up to now, let alone heroes who fans actually care about!? Thrall who fucked off 5+ expansions ago, abandoned the horde, and no one cares about anymore because he was made into a bitch!? Saurfang who was once one of the greatest badasses is now actively aiding the alliance while betraying the horde because Garrosh 2.0? Baine who was hamfisted in and has played marginal roles at best until now, because they wanted to kill Cairne off screen rather then give him a proper story or cinematic send off? Vul' Jin, naaaa he's a fucking ghost now, couldn't be bothered to give him a decent send off either let alone let him rule for a single expansion cus the writers aren't smart enough to figure out how to write a complex character with any depth let alone a story that makes sense...now he hangs out with the guy from Death Note while pretending to be important. Rok'han? HAH he wasn't even a player story wise until this expansion, ya you saw him in WOD, did a quest or two, but unless you read the books he's another single expansion hero that the fan base hasn't yet bonded to. Let's see...who else we got...Lor'themar? Mr. Eyepatch himself who despite being around since BC has yet to do anything of great importance other then MOP, Lady Liadrin is a better leader then him and she's a supposedly neutral Paladin. Since BC, Acti/Blizzard has been killing off every Horde hero they have without introducing or building new characters the fans can enjoy and come to love (they had a chance of reintroduction with WOD but decided "green man bad" instead), and now that they have no one left they are reduced to shit convenience writing and hamfisted narrative to try and implement new ones the fans knew nothing about until this current expansion. The crack elves are the only ones who have a good leader who was written well, but making her Warchief makes 0 sense since it's been only 1 full expansion since her introduction and we don't know enough about her to say "This is a good decision, I can get behind this!". Sorry about the rant but I'm furious because I have loved the Warcraft franchise since Orcs and Humans and sunk countless hours into every one of them. I've boughten every game, every expansion and I'm still seeing what I love being shit on by a bunch of hacks and destroyed callously in front of my eyes by greedy execs. I want the franchise to do well, I want Blizzard to do well...with all the money they've made I wish they'd hire competent staff who valued a good game and story over lootboxes and pay to win features/cosmetics, becoming the next EA or Bethesda.

[@snowlondon8642]

honestly? it’s an interesting concept. I really do like her, between her personality and aesthetic, and if they do continue this “Sylvanas is the villain” plot then she’ll be a decent race leader for the forsaken, but I think for now, Sylvanas has earned her place as the Dark Lady, and I think it should stay that way. But Calia is still neat, and has a very interesting place in the story

[@EdBurke37]

Pretty sure Calia is there for an Alliance undead allied race. Pretty sure Lillian will take over if the Banshee leaves. Hope that means she gets a new modle too

[@jefftank3300]

I doubt she will take either side. She is more focused on the Forsaken themselves than Horde or Alliance. If the new Forsaken become a playable race, I bet the player can choose either faction like we could with Pandarans. But even then, I suspect the faction lines will become blurred in the next expansion. It sounds like Sylvannas will not be dead in the next expansion, but will be exiled from the Horde. After which, all the leaders with high aggressive tendencies in the Horde and Alliance (Varian, Garrosh, Sylvannas) are gone. Thus a sustainable peace will be possible.

[@TheNexusChronus]

Why though? When has Lillian Voss EVER taken an interest in politics? She's hardly even a part of Forsaken society, let alone a potential leader. And whatever happened to that council that was ruling the Undercity in Sylvannas's stead? Whatever happened to the conflict of having Forsaken who just wanted to die? This storyline is really getting the Blizzard treatment of being told in a very nice way but having plot wholes bigger than an elephant's twat who just had triplets (credit to Samantha Bee for that analogy)

[@Raziel-zm3dv]

@@jefftank3300 Calia is good friend to jaina and she resurected with the help of Anduin "alliance high king" so for sur she will stand with the alliance and for sure because the game have the PvP mechanic i dont see Blizzard make the 2 faction's allied so i see Calia become Alliance leader for "light undead" is more reasonble all the allied races are subrace for playable race and the only 4 races left with no subrace are (Gnomes/Goblins/Worgens/Undead) so i expect light undead "allied race" subrace for the alliance and like worgen race for the Horde

[@RileyRivalle2]

@TheNexusChronus Sylvanas killed around half the council for "desertion" during the event in Arathi Highlands. The rest are still around, but since there's no longer any Undercity to rule in Sylvanas' absence... Yeah, I wouldn't consider that a plot whole.

[@TheNexusChronus]

@@RileyRivalle2 Must have missed that, thanks. Also props for reading a bitch for her spelling of hole. I see you, you shady fcker

[@TheGrimest]

if blizzard really goes trough this then that's it.. just the final straw to break the horse's back, the final insult to prove that they just dont give a shit about their characters and what they ment

[@MrVlad12340]

You just noticed that Hordie? They were whipping Alliance fanbase bloody with an iron flail ever since Cata. Nice for you to feel a slap now.

[@jasonp7423]

15:57, and THAT single statement right there is my biggest issue with BfA and this newest cinematic. Sylvanas has ALWAYS cared about the Forsaken, and now they write her as if she doesn't give 2 shits about anything but her own survival and death. Its trash writing.

[@constantinossavva6656]

Yeah but after that he says "she cares but she cares staying out of hell a lot more"

[@fumarc4501]

She has never “cared” about anyone but herself and her ambition. She “cared” about them after Wrath, but not for their sakes. She needed them to keep her bargain with the Val’kyr and stay alive. That’s been her only driving force since Cataclysm. Now she’s Death Magiced up and you can no longer deny the truth.

[@jasonp7423]

@@fumarc4501 Yea no, read the lore m8.

[@fumarc4501]

@Jason P No U!

[@jasonp7423]

@@fumarc4501 XD

[@Koraksis]

I want the Forsaken to be split off as a third faction. They have nothing in common with the Horde.

[@shunsha8606]

Boris Nachev Outcasts. Hated by the Alliance. Trying to establish themselves on Azeroth. Fighting to survive. They actually have a lot in common.

[@nevermore7285]

To be fair, neither do the Blood Elves. Many of the Horde races are basically those who would be hunted by the Alliance and are joining together as a show of force.

[@davidharris3060]

i'm very disappointed in how the writers had dealt with sylvanas and i feel sad that another character with so much build up just to go down in flames do to lack of finding a villain for the next expansion

[@SAOin-np1np]

You clearly don't know your lore. She's exactly the same as she was in Vanilla.

[@fumarc4501]

Sylvanas is an amazing character, but her character arc has never changed. She has lost her way, after regaining freewill and after Arthas’ death, but every time she followed the same path of self preservation and using others to get what she wants. Having an ally you know will stab you in the back just makes it all the more exciting. Especially for those of us who never trusted her. But I’m happy to say that the Forsaken as a whole have grown on me, and I’m proud to call them members of the Horde, in spite of Sylvanas. And don’t worry, we know you Banshee Queen loyalists are still out there. Keep plotting with you bad selves!

[@МаксимЖуков-я2н]

@@SAOin-np1np except her character was probably changed in the "Edge of night" short story, because there was not much to do with her character after the death of the Lich King

[@HuffDaddyYT]

Sylvanus will forever be my war chief

[@devincampbell5007]

Sylvanas Windrunner for the new Horde Orgrim Doomhammer for the Old Horde

[@Scionofgreyhaven]

I stopped playing but always watch Nobbel to keep up

[@notalive_zombie]

That's all I do as well. The game has changed so much I just can't get into it anymore

[@ouroborosi]

same here

[@fumarc4501]

Same

[@zaimox8586]

But i want faction wars to never end, this is world of warcraft we need crazy leaders, i just hope the alliance would be the ones with a crazy leader for once

[@davidwilson2916]

Personally, I'm actually getting a little tired of the constant faction war in WoW - I think the game could be fun even as a PvE, and it would mean that Blizzard wouldn't have to keep making up reasons for the Alliance and Horde to keep fighting.

[@jd_27]

Agreed... But then maybe the dark iron Dwarves will decide to take over ironforge while nobody is keeping check on them and we have to flush them out afterwards

[@davidwilson2916]

@@jd_27 Exactly - just because the faction war is over doesn't mean that there still couldn't be internal or external conflict. Azeroth is a tumultuous world, and there would doubtless be plenty of adventures for our characters to go on even if the Alliance and Horde were allied/at peace.

[@jd_27]

@@davidwilson2916 something else that could happen that gets me excited is the thought of all the animals/smaller races (Merlocs, Kobolds, etc) deciding that the Horde and Alliance are destroying the planet and they band together to take action against us somehow...

[@davidwilson2916]

@@jd_27 Certainly a possibility. I think that Blizzard's focus on the Alliance-Horde conflict has actually been preventing them from giving time to the smaller races and developing some of the side stories/character arcs we have, and it'd be great to see Blizzard branch out from rehashing the same plotlines over and over again.

[@Plasmacat1]

I don't care at this point. I was so excited after Legion but now.... I just don't care for the story or the game. My guild is into raiding and that has kept me around but it's just so boring with all the grind that it takes to keep a good mythic raiding toon. The story being so fucked in BFA just made it worse. I'm actually excited for Classic after months of not caring for it. Weird. Thanks for the video Nobbel

[@moonrazor2039]

No ''butt-fuck ...who?'' Calia in Classic either. FeelsGoodMan.

[@ME262MKI]

BFA is crap, but Ill give 6 months to Classic before people realise how much time took leveling and getting gear, "time" these days many people doesnt have, aaah and dont forget how broken were some classes and how glitchy the game was

[@sarazan2586]

The story is completely fine, it is just too slow because Blizzard started do complicated story and people are losing their patience and forgot many important things from last expansions. Then you have people who ignore in-game text and just consume cool cinematics and then blame Blizzard for shit story.

[@kaneslives]

Sarazan the story is completely garbage... Don't try to "be cool" or whatever it is you're trying to do by even attempting to defend BFAs shit show of a garbage story.

[@moonrazor2039]

@@sarazan2586 It has nothing to do with it being ''slow''. The plot is dogshit. It's lowkey insulting to even pretend this story is something super amazing when we've already fucken had this a few years ago. Now they're just throwing in some shitty Game of Thrones plot with this Calia bitch that came out of nowhere to try and justify it.

[@GlacierRain]

No, Thank you very much but I have already chosen my lady and she is a dark one. Betrayed my war chief once but never again

[@KingofAwesomness14]

my biggest problem with slyvy and this is coming from an alliance player usually...is that the horde was once again roped into the evil faction, again, for the 10th billion time. (I know its an exaggeration) but seriously why did vol'jin have to die just to have a faction war that Blizzard has been doubling back on because they know the controversy was too hot. We all knew once slyvy burnt teladrassil due to basic provocation she was going to need to be replaced because that's the same move Garosh did, oh wait! Garosh actually did nuked theramore for a tactical advantage even if it was scummy and so it became "Morally gray!!!" That's why i quit wow, i was so pumped for a first horde v alliance expansion since Legion was quite the good pve expansion. Now...unless they make something that both makes sense and feels wholesome in regard to the A vs. H i won't care.

[@donjezza10]

And even despite that, she is the only indispensable character in the whole game's story now, since every other character is either dead or their stories tie to her somehow.

[@madsword19]

So looking back from 2021,good reason? Regardless, you're right. It would be nice to have to clear out some evil Alliance leader for once (dominated Anduin excluded). And I'm saying that as an Alliance person.

[@francescoporcari8597]

@@madsword19 Same for me, it would be creative to make Tyrande a pawn of the next big enemy. I've always somehow disliked her and Malfurion!

[@hordebronyfurness1832]

Calia Menethil ZzZzZzZzZ

[@alexmcmahon2565]

I say that if Sylvanas is out of the picture the Forsaken move into a council of leadership format. The respective leaders of the Deathguard, the Apothecary, Dark Rangers if they are still around, and citizenry should rule in a manner that befits the Forsaken spirit. Lillian is out for herself and is unaligned with the Forsaken while Callia is essentially a part of the Alliance, at least as far as sensibilities are concerned. We have been left gutted with no power-base and no means of procreation. The Forsaken WILL die off unless our scattered forces are consolidated and turned in earnest towards conquest. Gilneas is honestly looking pretty good right now. I'm sure there are ways to burn off some blight.... Power to the Forsaken.

[@kittredge5167]

If she leads the Forsaken... I'm done with WoW. I know that sounds dramatic, but I really can't stand her. Karen Menethil can stay with the Alliance.

[@torhenryandreassen6144]

Blasphemies! Sylvanas is the only Queen of the Forsaken! Victory for Sylvanas!

[@ebrahim_91]

Victory For Sylvanas

[@ItCameFromTheSkyBeLo]

Dark Lady watch over you.

[@angelusumbra5741]

I pity Sylvanas. So much. I think I always knew she would be lost, just as the once human man who broke her was. But still, it is so tragic to me what she has done. Has become. I still wish she could be saved, because even with all the terrible things she has done she also sacrificed more than most for her people. Both in life, and again in undeath. If Kerrigan could redeem herself after the deaths of billions, regardless of whether she was influenced by Amon or not, then maybe... Just maybe...

[@ellizaethe9249]

No thanks. I'll pass on her.