Should You PVP IN SWTOR? A Realistic Explanation

[@NoblePlays]

After watching this video, what other concerns do you have about pvp? How can I help? Tell me below!

[@alexanderrobrecht6452]

Only started playing PVP recently. Warzones took waaay too long for me so I tried out Arena. (I am mostly playing Defense Guardian [Tank]). At first I had a lot of fun, got some wins, some losses, but I had fun with the swiftness of the rounds. And then I got trashtalked: "We are stucked, [Character] doesn't even Guard-Switch..." Told them, I was a casual player, playing for the rewards (mainly Tech-Frags). Got trashtalked again. Didn't play PVP again... I didn't even know, what Guard-Switch meant. Never played OPs, so if this is important in higher content, I wouldn't know. That is the toxicity people are talking about. I am an active player of League of Legends, which is renowned for its toxic community, but somehow this one incident completely destroyed my fun in SWTOR-PVP.

[@NoblePlays]

I’m sorry that you had that experience. That would be frustrating to say the least. But since you are playing a defense guardian, I would recommend learning how the role of a tank in PvP works. Because guard swap is very important. If you don’t know about it sure people will flame you. But it was one day, and you get better. Were you geared for PvP too? I feel like there is missing context. What was your gear rating?

[@alexanderrobrecht6452]

@@NoblePlays yeah, I'm gonna try learning, but its gonna take a while, until I try again. Gearwise I am at 340 for all armor, weapon and shield pieces (modded from Hyde and Zeek). My Legendary Implants are at 330 and my Relics at 324. Got the Grit Teeth Tactical as well. Went completely into shield, absorbtion and defense rating. I am around 65%-35% shield-absorbtion. That's what the internet has told me to do anyways. :D I've watched some guides from a content creator called Mark Biggs regarding the gearing of the classes.

[@ivano1337]

Hey Noble 😊 Thanks for the shout out. Appreciate it!

[@ingolf82]

SWTOR PvP is honestly the most fun PvP I have ever played and I've PvPed alot, both in SWTOR and WoW. in Vanilla WoW, I grinded rank 11 to get my PvP Mount and in SWTOR I think I went for rank 70 or 80 on 2 characters, I think that one is called "War Hero" is that correct? I never did ranked PvP though. my favorite role in SWTOR PvP was tank. so in Huttball I often was the ball carrier as well as guarding my pocket healer. I have tried all 3 tanks and I like all of them for different reasons. Juggernaut/guardian has this really neat trick, where you can get from one end of the map to the goal line with the ball in 3 moves. from up high, force push a target, then charge to it, resetting your force push and you push again so he lands near the goal line and you charge again and score. it's really fun when it works. Powertech tank with a grappling hook to snag the ball carrier when their team has the ball is really fun. Assassin is probably my favorite though with force speed and cloak and all the tricks. I had great fun. my guildie I pvped with played Operative healer and I played assassin tank, it worked great. back in 2011, there was this Assassin/shadow PvP player.. what was her name? Her guides were amazing. Shinarika... that's her name. her videos are still on youtube.

[@UncSmokey]

ivano is goated love to see creators shout eachother out especially in a wainin content comm for swtor

[@NoblePlays]

we bringin it back!

[@kingemris346]

only issue I've found with PVP is the kill groups in Warzones not playing objectives. i say save it for arenas but that is just my opinion. i mean kills and DPS don't mean much if you lose right? lol

[@pedrosalvador3445]

Exactly Kingemris...one of my main points of discussion about pvp i had in the past when i was playin in DM server...unfortunally few do that...

[@Koppa_Cabana]

so i'll try to explain why... - For players that are playing pvp for years and have done objectives 1000s of times it's just boring at some point - Most maps and objectives are very poorly design don't encourage players encounter. - 3/4 of players aren't good enough. Most of players can't even handle a single duel against another bad player and consistly need help to achieve anything. Iwon't even count how many times I see 5 players struggling to kill 1 guy whos not even good. So I don't do obj because it's boring to me, I'm Qing PvP to fight other players not to afk and defend a turret for 15 mins, and when I do play objectives I usualy do half of the work myself while the other team is throwing the other half so what's the point ? Also on most maps having half of the team farming kills is actually an advantage. And playing for kills will actually make you learn faster about PvP and make you better at carrying obj overall.

[@Deku-vo2dn]

Bro there needs to be a system implemented into the game where it does NOT allow you to enter Arenas if you do not have the minimum gear equipped. Same with Master mode FP and any other hard content. it pisses me off when I see someone in a MM FP or Arenas with gear rating 328 or below... especially when I'm healing cause now In have to work harder to keep their unprepared ass alive. 🤦‍♂

[@NoblePlays]

I agree honestly

[@Koppa_Cabana]

ilvl doesn't mean anything if you don't have augs, tactical and legendaries. Also 90% of mm FP aren't hard content even when undergeared as long as you have the expansion gear.

[@patricior7300]

Do you still streaming PVP? Were? Nothing found on twitch. Tnx

[@NoblePlays]

No but I plan on bringing back my PvP series in a few weeks.

[@guido1205us]

1/16 - you're not solo pvping enough. During prime hours before/after weekly resets it's back to back in queues of Pres farming.

[@hackintosh3899]

Yeah. Just how mentally ill/delusional the premade "swtor community" is. They tell you to "get friends" while they pugstomp in a full premade (in the morning, in the middle of the day, at night) against people who don't even have subs to even buy augs, which is the only reason warzones even pop now. If non subs couldn't queue, premades would have to play premades and they would all quit. Sorry but my friends aren't sociopaths who enjoy zero challenge. I queue with at most 2 other people and we never run guard and often just queue as dps. It's a casual PvP mmo at this point it it's lifetime and if you don't get that, you are mentally ill levels of delusional. At this point I'm rooting for people to stop queuing. This community deserves it. I will laugh as people like Noble are forced to go to WoW and fail to even hit an arena rating where the carries are being sold... If you are premading with guard and more than 2 other people? You are awful and killing the game you claim to love. Period. Do not pass go.

[@NoblePlays]

I play about 25 matches a day soooo lol

[@hackintosh3899]

​@@NoblePlays If you play 25 matches a day and you don't get premades you have a bad win loss record noble. All I get is premades on Starforge with a 65-70 percent win rate across characters and the premades purposely lose/throw so they can avoid playing other premades. I played 6 games just now. All 6 were complete premades and I won all 6 games because they didn't play one objective. These players are sabotaging others gameplay and should be permabanned.

[@NoblePlays]

@@hackintosh3899over 62% in arenas and war zones. It doesn’t matter whatsoever 😂

[@Jrockk999]

I wonder if I should switch servers. I'm just getting back into swtor after about a year hiatus from the game and it seems like group content is just dead on Satele Shan. I got into a flashpoint a couple of days ago on a lvl 21 character and it was just full throttle speed through it, but that was the only time. Pvp has never actually popped since I've been back and I do enjoy it.

[@NoblePlays]

Come to the forge!!

[@cz5836]

Havent pvpd since 6.0, the ability and mastery reduction has me very hesitant but once i max gear im going to try. Then max pvp gear and see about that too.

[@PWReviews]

As you've said there's always going to be toxicity In any game. Honestly though in SWTOR I've had a great time in PvP. Each game has been fun and people say GG and all that and are friendly. It's only flashpoints where I see more of the toxicity. People just want to rush through it and don't respect those who could be playing it for the first time

[@NoblePlays]

Right? It’s the constant need to space bar cutscenes 😭

[@RobertHoover-f4p]

Most peeps have been through a particular FP tens of times, and know their way through it. They also assume their teammates are the same. If you are a noob to the flashpoint, say so at the start. Good teammates will slow it down so you get to understand the FP and the process to get through it. If you don't express your level up front, being ignored was your decision.

[@PWReviews]

@@RobertHoover-f4p It's a fair point but don't forget there are new players every day playing the game and that means most likely there's always a new player in a FP. I've played since launch and am actually quite happy to view cutscenes if needs be. If someone is in a rush to get through content due to time or anything else. In my opinion they shouldn't be doing the flashpoint. Yes it's good to state if you're new as that then helps others. Plus you should enjoy the content, a few groups just try to skip as many enemy groups as possible and sometimes that's not fun at all. It's good to engage with a FP but anyway that's just me. I usually just follow what the group is doing anyway. It's only MFP where I understand skipping cutscenes as you know we've all done it before by that point. Sometimes people need to realise it's a game in the end and have fun in Star wars and not get too serious.

[@FRIDAY-lt3ei]

My PvP experience has been really solid, I’m about valor 70 on my main, main issue isn’t even the killl farmers it’s just the stun locking. I’ve seen people who just stun lock repetitively and it’s just not fun when you don’t even get a chance to fight back. I have no problem getting annihilated but I at least want to fight back

[@NoblePlays]

I’ve got a stun guide on my channel!

[@FRIDAY-lt3ei]

@@NoblePlays I’m gonna check that out! Thanks!

[@gabrielwalker421]

were you the guy asking in chat if there's any other brothers playing

[@NoblePlays]

Lmao 🤣 no

[@giuskywalkerxyz]

any pvp guilds that accepts beginners on star forge?

[@DOWModder]

Premades are the main problem in PVP, they`re the reason nobody pleys GSF nowadays too. I`ve flown quite a lot in my time, have all ships unlocked and maxed out, had up to 22 kills per match, so I know what I`m talking about. I`ve recently had to wait full hour in the queue to attempt and do a season task - nothing, and it was the prime time. I can`t blame people frankly - who`d want to get farmed the entire match by a team with a discord, composed of say two gunships, a bomber with drones, two seouts and two strikers. You`d never get near them or the objective. Some premades go so far as simpy sniping the respawn points, killing players midair hen they haven`t even gone out of the hyperspace yet.

[@NoblePlays]

I have never met a more committed GSF player than you my friend 😭

[@pedrosalvador3445]

Hi Again Noble...yesterday i forgot to mention this..as you said in the beginning of your video, and i am 200% with you in that statement, as also some pvp friends ive played with said and share the same opinion ---> ¨..there is no mmorpg with a pvp environment like SWTOR out there...¨

[@insanereaper8396]

I have trouble understanding the differences between gear. PvP gear is different from gaming gear or PVE gear. And I just don't understand what those differences are, and why there has to be any difference. If my gear has a rating of 306 then it should be sufficient for all game play including PvP. And I know 306 isn't the highest ranking I think it's like 324 right now, I could wrong. But 306 is the best I can do right now.

[@NoblePlays]

306 is no longer max level gear. So it’s not sufficient for PVP. The gear in 8v8 warzone starts at 324. Anything less will significantly reduce your enjoyment. For arenas it’s 332. If you’re an experienced player you can get away with 330 but it’s not recommended. 306 was best gear back when the cap was level 70 or 75. It’s useless now

[@insanereaper8396]

@@NoblePlays That my point I just don't understand why if 332 if the best now for PvP what is the difference between using it for PVP or PVE. It seems to me if mods can rank up to 332 it should be sufficient for both.

[@timenspaceproductions8631]

@@insanereaper8396pve gear has more accuracy. You don’t need accuracy in pvp really

[@Koppa_Cabana]

There's a lot of misunderstanding there in PvP max gear is 336 not 332 anymore. Why 336 when it's 344 for pve ? Because it's make PvP max ilvl gear way easier to obtain and it doesn't give an unfair advantage to player that farm NiM ops. Also Pve gear don't give more accuracy the gear you get from PvP and from PvE is exactly the same stats distribution at the same ilvl and rarity the only difference is the max ilvl cap. Thyrsian is capped to 336 while rakata is capped to 344 but you can use rakata gear in PvP and vice versa it don't matter at the same ilvl. You can have gear above 336 in PvP it don't matter either the game will just scale down the gear to 336 the only thing you should avoid it's to mix mods with different ilvl on the same piece of gear if you use Hyde and Zeek mod it will just screw up the PvP scaling and you will lose a lot of stats.

[@MarrisaL-bs2ch]

PvP is good on a normal day, that is if I dont face: 1) full deathmatch premade. Seriously, even if I am on the deathmatch team, it is still not fun because things die too fast. 2) afk team. Very frustrating when you started out with 8 going to mid, only to realize all 6 decided to afk. So 8v8 became 2v8.

[@NoblePlays]

Hey things dying to fast isn’t your fault lol

[@pedrosalvador3445]

ive played along since game launch in premade pvp, the opposite, as a lone wolf and also in a 1 minute start 3 to 4 players ragequitting game. At start i was furious about those situations, but over time, i disciplined my self and learned my self, to see with other eyes what can i take from it, good and bad in that ingame reality, and i speak for my self, ive improved a lot.....

[@NoblePlays]

@@pedrosalvador3445I love that brother!

[@abmong]

If you dream typing "Snow" and "Grass" you know you've played too much wz. I used to pvp quite a bit back in the day with pugs and the guild on Progenitor until the serverpocalyse. That was when I was living in the UK. Then I moved back home to Thailand after I finished my studies and got some work experience, unsubbed and didn't play for 7-8yrs because there was no APAC server so I couldn't get pvpable ping. I know some APAC players played on US servers but for me ping was so bad it wasn't worth it. Just resubbed and transfered my 25 alts to Shae Viz. Looking to get back my pvp legs and go terrorize some Aussies 🤣 It's been a while, I feel like a noob and my pvp gear are all out of date, so it's gonna be me getting terrorized by Aussies more like 😅 problem is the server is on the quiet side, can't seem to get a pop below lvl 80 and my alts are stuck where I left them at lvls 65-70.

[@dannylampron9879]

Old republic was soooo better in the golden age of SWTOR when you had PVP servers....

[@NoblePlays]

For real I miss it

[@pedrosalvador3445]

me too....

[@short72hp1]

thanks, I will try his videos I don't ply because I die a lot🙁💯👍

[@NoblePlays]

He’s great!

[@hackintosh3899]

What SWTOR's playerbase is and what the game is currently designed around financially. Dress up barbie players, (no offense to those players), single player story enjoyers (they no longer really invest in large group content) and casual PvP players. What premades are. Selfish people that failed at games with actual competitive modes still active (see WoW Arena) that kill the third pillar of the game they claim to love. They are so out of touch with reality playing at low settings on min maxed only classes with Guard (that breaks pvp), that they don't realize most of the people queuing besides them don't even have good augs, are running the highest graphical settings which makes the game stutter and be unplayable in a warzone and also have no idea you have to install things like old DX 9 files just to make the game playable. IF the so called "SWTOR PVP community" really cared about growth of the game you would not queue with a premade, definitely not queue with tank specs and guard and you would lobby to only have a premade greater than 2-3 in Arena. Personally I would go with 2 since Warzones are so small in player count in SWTOR. 25 percent of a team is not a small number and 2 good players can definitely carry. You would make videos showing how to improve performance, while also lobbying for a "pvp operations graphics settings" tab under graphics so that when you enter a warzone (or raid) your FPS isn't garbage with broken SSAO, shadows that eat CPU etc. WoW has this for raids btw. Instead this community defends group queuing, defends lunacy like stacking guard against new players and is so delusional that they think guard is actually a hard mechanic. YOU are killing the game in pvp so called "SWTOR pvp community". Blame yourselves, not the developers. They shut down ranked for a reason. Win trading and one of the most toxic "communities" in the history of PC Gaming. The ONLY reason I still play this game is to give a big middle finger to the premade "swtor community" and kill them in premades, so that they essentially rage quit due to not hitting their desired DPS and end the game early. The rest of the pug I joined is not having fun though and they simply don't and won't queue again. You can only go through so many people before you kill a game mode.

[@Koppa_Cabana]

It beggan well but ended terribly. "one of the most toxic community in the history of PC Gaming" that's simply not true. Toxicity was present in only a minority of matches and concerned only a minority of players, but to know that, one would have needed to play a bit more in ranked rather than making assumptions. SWTOR's ranked matches were not more toxic than those in other games and much less than in some games. And above all, toxicity was just as present in PvE as in ranked, and sometimes even more in PvE, so this hypocrisy needs to stop. Also most of premades we see nowadays are players that didn't even participated that much in the last ranked seasons and most of them never set foot in ranked. And should I remember you that premades were limited to 4 before and it wasn't an issue 90% of the time. Now ppl begin to cry about it because the overall player skill has significantly dropped since most of the decent players has left the game. And saying that's the state of PvP is the community fault and not dev's is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. That was devs idea to upgrade premade restrictions to 8. That was devs idea to not addresses balancing issues, that was devs idea to not merge servers queues to make wintrade way harder, that was devs idea to not listen to their community... I can go for more and more. And if you think ranked was removed because of the toxicity you are very naive, because as I said elite PvE was equaly toxic if not more. They just removed ranked because they didn't want to put any more development ressources into it the same way they don't want to release R4 NiM and any meaningful/non-parasitic contents.

[@docvaliant721]

Do you want to lose and told you should uninstall. Maybe even gets a detailed review of my performance.

[@NoblePlays]

Good to see you around Doc!

[@hackintosh3899]

The problem isn't just premades. The biggest problem with SWTOR PvP is guard. Guard is the most broken sh@^ I have ever seen in any MMO PvP. It allows mouthbreathers with the reflexes of a sloth to be immortal healers. With tanks doing the damage/survival they do and having taunts already, guard has zero reason to exist in pvp. It completely breaks the game and shouldn't work in a warzone. Take it away and a lot of these pugs would be much more competitive with these damage farmers and A LOT of the premades would straight up quit because they are dogsh@^ players. You may lose these toxic pieces of sh@^, but you will gain MANY more players that immediately quit after queuing into these clowns. In addition the decent players in these premades would just solo queue AND end up having more dun. Guard is why I don't even bother playing heals because it's impossible to die and you can have the worst player ever do it. Guard is reason the only classes I play in PvP are Rage Jug and APPT, even though I love playing direct dmg op, sin, sorc specs. They are the only classes that can destroy someone on a target switch before a mouthbreathing healer/guard tank can switch and the only reason they can even do that is an immunity window to CC for jugs and because a PT can pull someone to a kill. Yeah there are some aoe, dot specs that can pad a meter and that are boring as sh@^ to play, but you can't kill anyone on a premade with them and you just end up extending the game when you can make them end the game early on an APPT, Rage Jug. Show me someone who thinks guard is a good mechanic and I will show you someone who hides behind it. Taunts, leaps to a healer, pulling them to safety on the other hand are really cool and interesting gameplay. Premades use guard for a reason. It's broken, you could have chimps play those two specs and it allows everyone else to run around shooting fish in a barrel.

[@kyubi1211]

First of all, tanking in PvP is the hardest role when it come to actually being a useful tank and using all ur tools properly. second, guard is the main mechanic of tanks in PvP so removing it would be same as removing the entire trinity due to the actuals game mechanics. so it make no sense. tank/heal games in arenas is the real high end PvP because of the game build to be way more teamplay based than solo performences and every roles complements each others.

[@hackintosh3899]

@@kyubi1211 You are completely delusional. Tank specializations have the simplest rotations in modern mmo's and they are purposely designed that way so that you aren't screwed as a guild if no tank is on. Literally ANYONE can play a tank spec. DPS specs of tanks already use the same taunts and tanking specs have the highest survival which means they can make the most errors. The two easiest roles in pvp in this game and WHY this game fails is tank and healer. Healers can avoid using 3/4 of their kit and tanks are just there to make them completely broken. If you don't realize this you are simply a bad player and LOL at "real high end pvp" when referring to a game mode that no longer exists (arena) in ranked form and that no one plays except failures at things like WoW Arena. When we did have ranked most of you win traded or cheesed tanking which is why no one wanted to play it in the first place. No one that is good wants to play a spec with a simplified rotation in long drawn out snooze fest games. Guard is bad enough in 8 vs 8. In 3v3 it's even worse. Link any video of ranked games (like the channel you have that no ne cares about and never will) and you will see people standing on top of eachother like imbeciles, because positioning doesn't even matter and because in the open you can avoid things that can get around guard like a push, pull to a los. Guard breaks the game in 100 ways. Heal hybrids are pointless due to it and the healing on hybrids is mostly trash anyways and that is because guard already breaks healers and makes them god mode. That's now how a mmo should work. A good sorc should be offhealing and instead it's pointless. This just makes them a poor man's dps with taunts. Guard is also why the stealth classes outside no skill tank specs are complete garbage in this game. Enjoy your dead game that is losing what little participation it has when the only classes that matter is FOTM heals, FOTM tank and DPS with burst that can taunt. ATM that is jug, PT. Everything else in this game is trash which is why people on those classes don't bother joining a warzone. No one cares about aoe dmg that kills no and loses games one except imbeciles. Show me a slinger aoeing to pad meters and I will show you a lost warzone or someone that can't even land a kill against a premade.

[@hackintosh3899]

@@kyubi1211 Tanking is the easiest role in modern MMO's and it's designed that way on purpose. Much higher survival = mush more chances at errors and threat modifiers and blanket taunts are there to save you from needing to perform a perfect rotation. All competitive MMO game modes have their WORST player play tank now in things like Mythic WoW. The best players are all heals (who can't rely on things like guard) and melee dps. Want to know why no one watches SWTOR arena content? Because you are all standing on top of eachother due to guard and positioning not mattering. It's awful to play and even more awful to watch. Whenever there is a tank meta in WoW the entire playerbase stops queuing. SWTOR is only good now as a singleplayer game for story, dress up barbie game and CASUAL PvP game. By premading that makes you a selfish, delusional person that is ruining that third pillar and driving players away from the third part that you claim to love.

[@kyubi1211]

​@@hackintosh3899 bro ur delusional, solo/group ranked used to be the most watched things on twitch in SWTOR category and the gamemode that bringed the most of viewers

[@hackintosh3899]

@@kyubi1211 Look at your channel. It's dead for a reason. NO ONE CARES and the vast majority of players HATE you for premading against them in pugs. SWTOR is played as a single player story dressup game and casual pvp player game and designed that way now. If you don't realize that you belong in a rubber room.

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

I enjoy pvp not for the reason everyone else does. I’ve learned that pvp is the best way to quickly level up your character not having to spam the same side/exploration quests per character just adding to the monotony pvp events help break those periods of traveling from one side of the map to another and level faster. I’ve noticed that for the past 3 years I’ve been playing the amount of regular xp you get from missions has declined even double xp events have been toned down through pvp I’ve been able to hit level 20-24 without even leaving the starter planets yet. Reason # 2 money pvp awards you with a decent amount of credits and gear you can either sell to venders for 1-3000 credits or even gold ter items you can sell on the GTN for a couple million. Reason 3 valor .increased valor give you access to unique adaptable weapons that look like ones you probably won’t be able to buy or access anymore. Now that I told the internet it’s only a matter of time when broadsword will gut these benefits to the bare minimum in the next update so enjoy while you can it can one thing I’ve learned in swtor pvp is victory or defeat and your overall experience is dependent on the level of competency of your teammates

[@windtotem]

tbh its the only reason you should be playing SWTOR but its such a shame the treatment its received. I am just so against this participation battle pass nonsense because there is zero incentive to even try to win. People complained about players just deathmatching? Well maybe the devs could've instead of deleting ranked added some rewards for WINNING in obj mode...but instead they just deleted ranked and its rewards and give us bad knockoff cartel market gear. Im sorry but I will wear cartel market gear but the new PVP gear is very low quality. Maybe the pants from the samurai looking armor was decent but its hardly worth it as a reward... as for the swtor pvp community being "too toxic" the most toxic players I have ever encountered in the 3 mmos that I play was always the raider carebears. BRO you are literally memorizing AI mechanics chill some

[@solry9099]

Who cares if there's not many players to separate solo and premade que? The need of the many (solo players) outweight the desire of the few (the premaders). The argument "but then the premaders will leave, oh no" is ridiculous. More people will leave pvp, because of how extremely unfun it is pugging into vs a premade. The majority, the solo queuers, will be happy, which is healthy for the game. The minority, the people that need to stroke their ego stomping pugs, can leave, noone will shed a tear, only heave a sigh of relief. And newer players won't be discouraged to play some more pvp like they are now after getting roflstomped. At this point in time premaders whine and moan how pvp is dying but they ARE one of the if not the biggest reason it is dying. People just stop playing it, because, once again, it is not fun getting roflstomped as a pug vs a premade. Give it more time and they will drive off the last remaining players.

[@NoblePlays]

You act like there’s a million premade teams out there. That’s just not true. If someone uploads 20 matches in the same day of getting stomped by premades then okay, there’s an argument for that. But that won’t happen lol

[@solry9099]

@@NoblePlays I act exactly the opposite. Have you even read what i said? Please do first, then answer. Also try playing daily. Its always 2-3 diff premades that you play against over and over and over. And what i am arguing is that my pug team is always diff people. Which means there are a lot more solo queuers vs premaders. Premaders keep stomping more and more solo queuers, solo queuers stop playing, because that's not fun. Premaders start crying that there is no enough players to pvp, queue times too long, not realising that they are the reason noone pvps anymore. Removing the minority, the premaders, from the equasion makes pvp healthier. And who cares if they don't get to play. They are a minority, the majority of pvp players would be tremendously glad to get rid of them. Also they could easily access pvp by not being in a premade.

[@Koppa_Cabana]

if you're struggling against a random 3 men premade that isn't even tunneling you it's a you and your team issue not the other way around as I says many times premades were limited to 4 for years before and it never bothered anyone 90% of the time. "Who cares if there's not many players" everyone it's an mmo and also it will increase Q time for both Q. Seperating queues is the same thing as removing premades from PvP. Also premades aren't just heal tank trayharder thats just want to roll on the entire match most of the times it's just some friends queuing more together and most of the time when these premades annoy you its becasue they're just better at pvp than you and your team. So please say what you really mean wich is remove good players from the queue so me and my team can play without putting any effort into this game mode. Also even if everyone was in a solo Q good players will still be match together some times and just nuke the enemy team and ppl will still complain about it. How many times I've seen ppl talking about premades when it was just radom matchmaking to justify the fact that the other team is farming them. So ofc premade should be limited to 4 instead of 8 and of course tank/heal premades should mtched up against another tank/heal premade but that's not possible most of the time because the game is empty if you didn't notice and there's a thing called backfil.