Norma Eco Speed-22 & Eco Power 22 .22LR Ballistic Gel Test - Federal Punch 22 LR

Gel Comparison: • 10% Ballistics Gel Com...
Punch Review: • Federal Punch 22 .22lr...
Punch/Stinger/Supermax: • Federal Punch vs CCI S...
Items I use regularly in these videos-
Steel Targets: shootingtargets7.com/?rfsn=64...
Main Camera (smartphone): amzn.to/36NioIv
Secondary Camera (action cam): amzn.to/3LknjQg
Laptop Computer: TBA
Computer Editing: TBA
Editing App: TBA
Phone Stand/Tripod: TBA
Micro SD Card: amzn.to/3tKheoV
Hearing Protection Ear Muff: amzn.to/3Kyx7Wu
Safety Glasses: TBA
Table: TBA
Ballistic Gelatin Powder: amzn.to/3vRamca
Bullet/Reloading Scale: amzn.to/3pVjZ5N
Caliper/Micrometer: amzn.to/3vVD9fC
Denim: amzn.to/3KDPoBL
Range Finder: amzn.to/35Re1fj
Bag/Rest: amzn.to/3pXsc9I
Chronograph: amzn.to/3J4LYHB
Target Stand: amzn.to/3pW21Qt
8" Bullseye Shoot-N-See: amzn.to/34vIGy6
12"x12" Sight In Splatter: amzn.to/37lpq7H
12"x18" Bullseye Splatter: amzn.to/3pTAWNO
18"x24" Silhouette Splatter: amzn.to/3tOroEZ
High Viz Neon Silhouette: amzn.to/3t0v6fG
As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

[@HOOSIERDADDY385]

Thanks for the video.

[@TheOldFatDadGoober]

Thanks for the through presentation! Glad to see I'm not crazy and those Normas are going slow for you too.

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Thanks for tuning in. I have a hard time believing they would even achieve the 1700fps in a longer barrel rifle. Maybe they cheated and used one of those smoothbore garden guns (designed for the .22lr shotshells) for their velocity claims. Or maybe they're just liars... Last year I tested their MHP defense ammo in .380 and 9mm, and they came in extremely under advertised velocity- matter of fact, they were the slowest rounds I had ever tested in those calibers. I even tried the 9mm out of a 16" barrel carbine and still did not achieve the advertised velocity.

[@TheOldFatDadGoober]

@@BuckeyeBallistics Dang it Norma! We need some more competition in the ammo market, but not like this!

[@jeff9062]

There is a video with a CZ 24" doing over 1700fps.

[@jeremiah7855]

I contacted norma about these velocity and they gave me some bs excuse and reason I didn't even get the velocity that you got from a 10/22

[@jamesstratton4488]

Thanks!

[@whittler3358]

Wow a lot of work young man,, thanks great job ,,, eco speed doesn’t seem to cycle my pistols,,

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

I believe it because it won't cycle mine now that I put a red dot on it, but other high velocity ammo with heavier bullets still do...

[@chadb1878]

Thanks for sharing; I recently purchased the Norma but haven't had an opportunity to try it out yet. Lackluster performance...don't think I'll be purchasing again

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Thanks for watching

[@justinlance4174]

Try the segmented hp.

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

I did a video testing all of CCI's segmenting hollowpoints last year, and tested some other brands of segmenting hollow points in another video. Here soon I'm doing a .22lr segmenting/fragmenting video, rounding them all up to test side by side. I'll also be doing (soon) a .22lr "heavy hitters" video of 40+ grain hyper velocity ammo, and the same with all the lightweight hypersonic loads (1600+ fps).

[@JohnLloydScharf]

I count on tumbling in a personal defense round in .22LR.

[@chrisd9076]

From what I've seen, r n mini mags tumble great, and penetrate deep. They're fairly inexpensive too.

[@bonitabromeliads]

I use these ecos for varmint. They're great! very accurate at 30 yards.

[@ForFucksSake57591]

Ok I’m in after that intro. Guns and cars….. what’s not to like?

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Hey that's how I feel and that's why I started this channel. But unfortunately, only about 28% of my audience watches any of the car stuff (poll results)- so I'm super glad you dig the cars too lol.

[@KBoon]

I've been wanting to get into plinking with 22lr but I'm very concerned about lead so I found this Norma 100% lead-free Eco ammo...will it reliably cycle out of most semi autos? Or would I have more luck with a Ruger 10/22 than a pistol?

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

It * should * cycle fine. That said, some guns are picky with ammo. But as far as it having enough recoil with the lighter bullet to cycle the action fully- yes.

[@mrwayne5158]

.22lr is 97% all lead ammo. Its not best to get it if thats what your concerned about

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

@Mr Wayne - Depending on his state and range rules, he may not have a choice for certain activities...

[@KBoon]

@@BuckeyeBallistics in my case it doesn't have to do with regulations, just want to limit lead exposure and Norma's Eco line seems to be the only one to do that. Problem is apparently these 24g projectiles don't cycle properly in many semi autos. Maybe the Ruger 10/22, having a longer barrel would build up enough energy to do that but not pistols.

[@mrwayne5158]

@@BuckeyeBallistics oh. California. Hmm i hate that government over there

[@Code_Made]

Good vid brother

[@michaelschaffer9165]

CCI has a 22lr load called the SGB for small game bullet. It's a flat nosed 40 grain bullet I think.

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Tested it several years back

[@johnemmons9087]

I always thought a fragment 22 is a waste. There’s really not a shock from it when hunting. Blunt nose is best. To me the stinger is an enhancement of the blunt nose. Effective mushrooming and shock. I know a guy that shot him self in the leg and he said he didn’t even feel it until blood started dripping. So I think shock value is important to keep “dinner “ from running off. Thank you for the video

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

While I've never used a fragmenting round on anything living, there are better ones out there than this that would probably produce good levels of "shock". The CCI segmented rounds split the entire length of the bullet into 3 equal sized pieces for example, and I've seen other brands do this as well. In an older video of mine, I tested CCI Quiet vs CCI Quiet *Segmented* vs Remington CBee hollow points. I just shot apples- but the segmented, even being the same low velocity of around 700fps, was the only one that made the apples explode (and yes the cbee's were expanding). I also did a video last year testing all the different CCI segmented in ballistic gel, from 700fps to 1600fps. With that being said, I still prefer a good performing hollow point over segmenting rounds- though I haven't tried both in the field to compare effectiveness.

[@kjellkod2]

Not sure about the 22 but the 22wmr CCI TNT (lead free) gives a crater on the other side of the rabbit when I use it for hunting. Absolutely devastating effect and efficient kill. AFAIK that's the best non-lead rimfire as long as your aim is true for neck/head

[@UncleHashy]

The winchester silver tips actually fragment and it looks pretty nasty

[@zach_6.813]

I have a comment not related to this video in particular but more to your pistol cartridge tests primarily your 380 series. Since by and large the consensus is that you need a ball round to give adequate penetration for 380 pocket pistols, I would be very interested in seeing a velocity reading of a ball round after exiting the 18 inch block. I’ve seen the comment multiple times on many 380 test videos and on forums ,and no one seems to have an answer to the question, although it’s a very common one. I think it would be very interesting to answer the question “how much velocity and energy exists after it exits its intended target”. Perhaps a chronograph behind the gel block, and maybe a flat nose 380 round, simply because they tend to travel a straighter trajectory through gel in every ballistics gel test I’ve seen. Just an idea ! Great video thanks!

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

I assume you are curious of the velocity after pass-through because you are trying to guage potential lethality? Or are you just inteterested in the velocity alone for some odd reason? Personally, I have often wondered about potential lethality to bystanders after passthrough of many cartridges, but velocity and calculated energy from said velocity alone won't give you that information- just put another block behind it or a panel of wood or something to see what it will still penetrate. Regardless, I could probably find out for you though lol (the velocity). But it would either have to be a 16" clear block, or a whole and partial block of the knox to equal 18".

[@zach_6.813]

@@BuckeyeBallistics well actually I was reading different analysis of ballistics gelatin and skin resistance alone can equate up to 4 inches of ballistics gelatin according to various sources, bone can amount to a couple inches equivalency in gel alone, as well as different muscle and cartilage encountered in a body based on many cases analysis. From what I’ve read 12-18 inches of gel was enough to “reach” vital organs . Which is not to say that’s enough to pass through an attacker. So I’ve seen where people catch the round in another block but that doesn’t necessarily do anything for my curiosity as that might only have been a superficial wound on a bystander even though it penetrated several inches of gel. The example given was, a BB into calibrated gel block travels 3-3.7 inches into gel yet that same bb would have only broke just beneath the surface of an actually person. And as a young man small game hunting with pretty potent pump BB guns (850-1000fps) I can agree with that the bb rarely ever would penetrate through both sides of a squirrel. So having said that I feel the best way for me to calculate risk is based on velocity numbers and draw my own conclusion to energy and collateral damage potential. I’m not overly concerned with over-penetration personally as the likelihood of using the firearms is low ,making the likelihood of someone being behind the attacker an even lower likelihood. It’s all a lifestyle of calculated risks for sure. We never know if the attacker is a very heavy very large beast of a person or a small crazed drug addict. Thank you for entertaining my comment aswell

[@zach_6.813]

@@BuckeyeBallistics I should also mention the 4” of skin resistance was referencing the skin on the back of a individual , the strongest portion. Frontal skin might equate to less although that excludes any belly fat or tissue.

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

My understanding is that a squirrel hide is thicker/tougher than human skin (do you agree?), so I would not be surprised at all if the bb did not exit the other side. Also, I've never heard of a pump gun propelling bb's at 850fps, let alone 1000 (usually 600-700); so unless you can provide the make/model for verification, I'm going to conclude that to be inaccurate. And if a squirrel's hide/skin is indeed tougher than ours, or heck even if the same, why then would you think a bb at high velocities would only penetrate just beneath our skin? If it kills the squirrel, then that means it penetrated the squirrel at least an inch or so, in which case it should do the same to us don't you think? Yet you state just under the skin on us. But you're not the first person I've heard claim that a high velocity bb will only go just under the skin on a human, so I'm most likely doing a test video on this- I was thinking pork with the skin attatched because I'm not shooting myself lol. I would entertain other ideas if you had any for replicating this without actually getting shot... Lastly and back to the original subject- bullet velocity and energy after passthrough being lethal. Bullet diameter, weight, and shape will come into play here. A traditional 40 grain .22lr round nose bullet at say 500fps is 22ft-lbs of energy, and definately capable of being lethal. How do I know? Because I have done extensive penetration testing (not just gel) with CCI's "quiet 22" round, and that thing will bust through your skull and go deep into your brain, or easily through your heart. And those are 40 grains advertised at 710fps, but I only achieve low 600's with them in my rifle and they are still that deadly. 500fps is not much less and would thus definately still be lethal with proper shot placement. Likewise, a 230 grain round nose .45acp bullet for example, to achieve the same 22ft-lbs of energy as the .22lr example, would only be traveling at 206fps. Same energy, but it would almost definately bounce off of you. If not, 1" penetration maximum I would guess, compared to several inches for the .22lr example. I'm sure you're capable of comming to your own conclusions regarding this, but that's my 2 cents for the sake of the conversation.

[@zach_6.813]

@@BuckeyeBallistics well let’s take this in order lol crossman classic BB gun up to 800 fps with 9 or 10 pumps I don’t remember which one but it was one of those pumps as per the owners manual, which I would regularly exceed to around 13-14 pumps and it made a huge difference . 10 pumps would not penetrate a burn barrel. 13 pumps would enter and ring the other side of the barrel. So 800 fps from a cheap pump air rifle done deal. Secondly I have a buddy who was shot with a daisy powerline and still have the bb under his skin to this day. It was not point blank however. Next I hunt everything that flies or walks. I have shot hundreds and hundred of doves and waterfowl with shells that penetrate several inches in ballistics gelatin and yet can’t penetrate a dove or duck breast and breast bone which is why you pick pellets from the meat, which is not a hard barrier to break. Shot a fox in the yard a couple years back a maybe 3-4 yards away with my glock 42 with a hornady xtp and it folded him up. But did NOT exit. Shot deer in the shoulder and bullet not exit the other side but in gelatin you can expect we’ll beyond 20 inches with a high powered deer rifle. Yes a deer hide is tougher than people they are not very wide either. I shot a opossum with a 22 4 times point blank from a rifle before it would expire 1 exit whole from 36 grain super x hollow points. 3 stayed in. Fast forward a couple years, wounded buck hit by car in my buddies yard. Shot it point blank in the neck 40 grain solid same 22 lr rifle . Hit the neck bone about 2 inches in and stopped like a rock . Found it after processing the deer. So real world and gel are vastly different in the terms of animals. The strongest hide of those animals is deer but as someone who processes deer I can assure you it’s not THAT tough. And living tissue is vastly different than dead tissue. And the bb penetration in gel vs under a human skin is NOT my analogy, this was information published on one of the various sources I was reading about ballistics gelatin. I think I covered everything, lol I do know it takes 2200 fps to break the elasticity barrier of flesh in order for a energy shock effect. Which is why rifles reign king over pistol cartridges. Pistol rounds don’t kill by energy transfer they kill by what they encounter to cause blood pressure to drop and lungs to collapse such as an arrow for a bow. This information is as stated by federal defense ammunition designer and former military personnel . A lot of variable out there for sure.

[@paulbarela6548]

Oh sorry I meant to say I can shoot an eco at 2.99 for 50 and the drunk punch is 11.99 for 50 at the same purchase place.

[@b.p.stimemachines2327]

The punch is a pioneering round built together its velocity out of 2 inches it also works great every where else it has a proprietary powder the norms well there ammo isn’t super premium in the first place and they just tried to mimic the look and specs of the punch but it obviously won’t cycle a handgun . It will be a while before they have a true competitor to the punch but there certainly will and Norma won’t make it probably be a new a cci round or maybe not the punch is good but the marketplace isn’t going to let federal provide the only quality actual self defense round for 22 pocket pistols or bigger

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

There is a new CCI round 😉

[@b.p.stimemachines2327]

@@BuckeyeBallistics cool I will check it out very good review because of the waste of money the Norma was maybe not at the moment I don’t know .22 ammo prices now but from what you said you can almost get two boxes of punch for that but something tells me prices are up and are comparable. Say no to Norma looks arnt everything but whoever makes the real competition like CCI will be a formidable adversary and probably be better than the Punch . Sorry about the essay I just have carry a .22 for short of 30 years in the pocket and it makes me happy to not have to question the ammo even though I only plan on hitting paper plates with it there is nothing wrong with engineering a better alternative round for the magazine In your pocket. Yea I can carry a large caliber pocket pistol but they suck to shoot so I would rather carry a gun I shoot frequently and enjoy than an abusive gun that I do t want to shoot just for a bigger hole. Thanks again

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

You should check out my .22/rimfire playlist on the channel as I have done a TON of .22 gel tests and still have more comming...

[@zacthebold5136]

To me it's worth the lack of performance to have no lead in your meat. Shooting game with the eco speed is still more effective than a bow or a slingshot!

[@rexmontana3058]

The Norma will hit 1700, but not likely out of a semi auto….10/22 barrel is a little to short also. They will do it though and seem to be pretty consistent in the mid to high 1600’s

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Show me the video...

[@rexmontana3058]

@@BuckeyeBallistics kzbin.info/www/bejne/gILZeJZ7qd9-lc0

[@mcnuggatron2129]

@@BuckeyeBallistics Here's the video (He's right): kzbin.info/www/bejne/gILZeJZ7qd9-lc0 It actually did pretty well on his 100 yard test too, at least for such a fast round. Im thinking about getting another 22 and keeping it lead free by shooting mostly these normas and the few other lead free 22s that are ACTUALLY lead free (no lead in the primers) because I don't like feeling like I have lead particles on me lmao

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

@Mcnugg - Thanks for the video. So they need a really long barrel then- that looked to be at least a 22" barrel, if not 24" (I wish he would have said). In regards to the OP's comments, semi auto's do tend to run a little slower due to pressure loss of the action moving, but it's almost negligible (less than 5% in most cases, I have done research on it before)- so the difference in velocity was definately due to the much longer barrel. Which, I am aware that longer barrels do often produce more velocity, but it depends on the load/cartridge and the lengths being compared as well as the rifling. I have seen for example, .22wmr produce nearly identical velocities from a 16" barrel as from a 21". That was really surprising lol...

[@mcnuggatron2129]

@@BuckeyeBallistics I believe his gun was a cz 457 American, so 24.8". Definitely a long boi lol. And yeah I've had several kinds of 22 ammo that I could hear breaking the sound barrier out of a Savage mark 2 but should've only been like 50-100 fps over the sound barrier, but were still supersonic out of my marlin model 60 sem auto that's also got a 21 inch barrel. In my own experience, like you said, the action doesn't much matter

[@ru2yaz33]

Poor quality control on the Norma.

[@titusandrew946]

My tx would not shoot the eco

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Mine either, constant jams. The bullet is too light, not enough recoil. Stingers and Supermax run just fine.

[@titusandrew946]

I think it’s the wax on it. First time I tried it was a a brand new tx. And after I used them several other brands were sticking to the barrel. I had to field strip the tx and remove the casing 3x Again I think it’s that terrible wax We’re you dealing with issues while filming this video?

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

I can't recall, usually only have one or two in it for the gel block shots. But recently I was shooting it with a red dot on it and these wouldn't cycle the action fully, but Velocitors, Interceptors, Stingers, and Supermaximums did. Hell even MiniMags and SuperExtra's cycle it, but not the Norma stuff. I could feel that the recoil is less, and it's due to their super light bullets. I once experimented with .22lr velocity by cutting bullets back further and further, and the lighter (and thus faster) they got, the less recoil I got until the point that it wouldn't cycle anymore.

[@smooth_skull3271]

maybe you diluted the jelly too thin, and this test is wrong

[@gerardgoubel4169]

22lr en carabine 50 cm mini oui en pistol 2’’ non du mal à tuer un fox à bout portant dans un piège en pleine tête

[@wardroland270]

Thanks G&C. Great job. Good info. God bless. LETS GO BRANDON

[@ChaThao-ki5yn]

Best 22lr is stinger flat nose