Northernlion asks a question about incest.

[@bennyharvey8436]

I stopped listening to the rant when he said "rhetoric" and a chatter instantly typed "Rhettoric and Link"

[@lucmaluco100]

I wish I could save this comment as a screenshot in my head

[@mrpandamania]

@@lucmaluco100bro wishes he could memorize something

[@capnkillbot]

Rhetoric and Morty.

[@Memepolicedoggo]

Banged my fist against the table beacuse of this comment

[@colecaine.]

@@capnkillbot-2

[@christopherthomas484]

Me liking the video because it’s both funny and makes you think, but shaking my head while I do it as to not be made a social pariah

[@Blaurot]

Bro you are being weird (+2)

[@vinceb8123]

+/-/×/÷2

[@Bossbabyfan2023]

Pulling up the abstract of the paper on step sibling incest is in my WatchMojo Top 5 "Librarian Pull that Up" Moments of All Time

[@mrsmartypants1987]

Librarian, pull up all his outrageous food takes (spoilers: it's all of them)

[@h311dr1p]

librarian really deserves a major award for that one

[@talia_al_gabagool]

Can we get a compilation of this? Seriously lmao

[@DFGdanger]

3:20

[@litapd311]

jarvis, i mean librarian, pull that up for me

[@lirimiri7034]

2X Pimpy 3X Bape Incest creates our strongest warrior’s.

[@slavenin6496]

They do be having that machismo chin

[@haroldp.sadwood1181]

+ freaking 2

[@obnoxiouspedant]

I must have missed a recent bit... Explain

[@CtrlCthenV]

@@obnoxiouspedant Dough Boy is a dog that was born from Pimpy who was inbred twice and from Bape who was inbred three times. So 2X Pimpy 3X Bape.

[@obnoxiouspedant]

@@CtrlCthenV aah, thank you, thst was enlightening

[@kahir8642]

Intellectually uncurious Twitch chat refuses to entertain an argument that takes them out of their comfort zone and challenges their sensibilities. Many such cases!

[@FaryaWolyo_]

Refusal to reconsider stance on taboo? In my society? It's more likely than you think.

[@Eeeeerisssss]

NL makes no sense though, incest is not wrong because they are related, from a purely logical pov there really isn't anything wrong with it. The only reason it is frowned upon is evolutionary biases that prevent inbreeding. It's for the exact same reason that the situation he is talking about is frowned upon. The reason you can't logically challenge it is because you can't logically challenge incest. But he clearly think one is worse than the other which is nonsensical because the only difference is the string of proteins in you coming from the same or different people of last generation.

[@sebamoreno2986]

@@Eeeeerisssss Bro there absolutely are logical reasons for incest being wrong. Society sets it's own baseline rules in order for a functioning society to be an actual thing, and thats where our morality comes from. If you take out human morality there is nothing "wrong" with murder, but for a prosperous society you need to establish that randomly killing someone else is wrong or you wouldn't interact with anyone. Incest is established as wrong because it leads to genetical problems due to limiting the gene pool. So as a baseline there are logical reasons why incest is wrong

[@FaryaWolyo_]

@@Eeeeerisssss Isn't that the reasoning that causes the divide? One type of incest causes undue suffering by having a much higher likelihood to produce genetic deformities in children. I don't follow how his position is completely illogical. One tends to cause deformed children, one doesn't. Even if you believe this doesn't matter, it wouldn't really be objective to suppose there's no difference. There's an observable difference.

[@hhm4480]

@@Eeeeerisssssimo problem is that it’s hard to establish consent. since they’re 2 people that have grown up around each other their whole life it’s impossible to gauge whether the consent is groomed or “legitimate” if that is even possible with such a relationship

[@mnbgt101]

Lieberman et al. probably wondering why the altmetrics on "The architecture of human kin detection" are popping off this morning

[@Neotenico]

"This article is in the 99th percentile (ranked 652nd) of the 170,323 tracked articles of a similar age in all journals and the 97th percentile (ranked 9th) of the 435 tracked articles of a similar age in Nature" Insane

[@0scarWalsh]

@@Neotenico pretty sure there's a number of high profile Lieberman papers, I'd imagine it's half because of that, and half because it's genuinely a good question

[@nonpondo_]

Opening this video was crazy, I thought this shit was real life at first and bro was watching tennis on stream

[@TheLibraryofLetourneau]

that would be so funny

[@EDoyl]

The PlayStation can produce mind-boggling effects

[@ckorp666]

like the dude who was restreaming a pay per view mma fight and mashing a controller on webcam to pretend it was a game

[@superguy183828]

Dude, same. Took me a second for my eyes to focus and I was like oh damn this isn't a video.

[@Kolop315]

I'm imagining a guy playing tennis for real with a headset on arguing over the phone about step-sibling incest mid-game. His opponent giving his all and this guy is just yapping while running back and forth.

[@wendelhaha1]

To make such a interesting argument about human behaviour and social mimicking just to end it with “Why cant Richie Tenenbaum love his stepsister man ?” got me fucking rolling

[@fujster]

I was so invested, like that's such a fantastic argument on society and a good indictment of why he is seen as different to other streamers in the same space, I mean I knew where he was going with it but it still captivated me

[@SuperGamerNinja74]

4:10 a LEGENDARY riposte, simply say that everyone arguing with you actually agrees with you

[@1031Sonic]

Old reliable, that and the “only read the most absurd responses in chat so as to tar and feather your opponents” 😂

[@alxndr727]

@@1031Sonic This bit is honestly my top NL moment of all time. Holy shit 😂

[@PandaBearWithMic]

@@1031Sonic what's not absurd take about it?

[@anishchetana7934]

@@1031Sonic we love a good strawman

[@Bone8380]

To be fair he's probably right because nobody was capable of coming up a real argument other than "thats just the way it is".

[@ratheruncreativename3252]

The idea of step-sibling incest is neat to think about from an evolutionary perspective. Like the paper says, many species have genetic relatedness mechanisms, and probably part of the reason people feel uncomfortable about incest is because we evolved to avoid it. Populations of people that instinctively avoided incest likely had less genetic defects, and meant it became an evolved trait. Now, our brains extrapolated the "we should avoid having kids with people we share a genetic parent with" to "we should avoid having relationships with family," because our instincts aren't so advanced that they can distinguish between step siblings and full siblings. So, there's a sort of "social incest" where we associate someone as being family without them being related genetically, and being in a relationship violates that instinctive genetic defect from incest rule. I kinda agree with NL on the idea that people aren't willing to have uncomfortable conversations, because if you try and make an argument like this, people would try and redirect the conversation because it makes them uncomfortable. Which, fair enough really. I wouldn't expect someone to open up The Library of Letourneau for funny NL banter and read this comment to have a logical discussion on how illogical incest avoidance abstracted to modern relationships is.

[@godlyvex5543]

Most animals do not evolve to avoid incest, so it's unlikely that it's an evolutionary thing. It's probably a societal thing.

[@tamhuy10]

i think the only "logical" argument is if they break up it fucks the family up

[@littlemonztergaming8665]

@@tamhuy10 Yeah, the otherizing effect it will have on the rest of the family will make family gathering a lil to a lot awkward even if everything goes well. If things don't go well you have all the drama of a divorced family with the additional taboo. The innate feeling chat is showing is that they don't want to be seen or see family as possible romantic interests, they want family to have an unconditional and friendly love otherwise they have nobody to give them that family support.

[@ratheruncreativename3252]

@@tamhuy10 That's true. Having an ex is already hard enough without having to see them every time the family gets together for the holidays. Still, that's less of an "incest is bad" thing and more of an unavoidable complication. Kinda like it could break up the family if the parents are overbearing and say "If you don't go into this career, we're disowning you." Pursuing their dreams outside their parent's visions might fuck with family relations, but that doesn't mean following the railroad they set is the most logical choice.

[@Xadrunas]

@@littlemonztergaming8665 I haven't seen the movie in awhile so go easy, but doesn't one of the siblings want to end themselves because they can't live without being with the other romantically? Wouldn't the awkward family reunions be a much better resolution than just losing a loved one?

[@Swisskies]

Expecting a well reasoned response from a chat room is more concerning than the conversation about incest

[@Ragnell123]

Streamer asking a question to chat but only picking the worst responses to read be like

[@nonpondo_]

I would agree but I can't find a good response though

[@Ragnell123]

@@nonpondo_ I think the best one is at the end about how a break up could basically destroy your family. Also there are always power dynamics between siblings, regardless of age, which can cause problems. But if they became step siblings as adults for whatever reason, I don't think there's any issue really.

[@tsawy6]

​@Ragnell123 i would suggest that power dynamics are dangerous territory but not intrisically wrong. There are lots of relationships where there are power imbalances: breadwinner/home maker, older/younger, local/immigrant, able/disabled, even (to varying extents based on personality/culture) man/woman. These increase the potential for abuse, but are not intrinsically wrong unto themselves, ykno?

[@supahalyssa]

​@@tsawy6sure but some power dynamics are just worse than others. that's why you see some power dynamics shamed and others are shrugged off. familial power dynamics are one of them.

[@supahalyssa]

​@@tsawy6i mean no it's not intrinsically wrong but basically nothing is. so i personally just feel like eh, not really a good argument

[@bruhbruhingham4202]

Im such an idiot I have been watching these clips for like 3 months and thought his name was "Enel" but it's people saying NL like individually

[@Dogy0909]

That’s hilarious

[@xXsillysussyXx]

enelle my beloved

[@zeph769]

There is in fact a One Piece character called Enel who is equally bald

[@gohanr1271]

I think chat is at a disadvantage when it comes to explaining their side, because they have to navigate a sensitive nuanced topic, briefly enough to be read as chat flies by and also succinct enough that it is likely to get picked. Not really the best forum for a debate, I understand why everyone got frustrated

[@karonuva]

Doesnt help that the average chatter has the same literacy as a genshin player

[@thegoblinking279]

@@karonuva I don’t think that’s entirely true, if chat was full of genshin players then they would probably be pro-incest

[@partypotry]

i cannot believe im writing this comment under an nl clip but.... as someone who's been through incestuous abuse, it is disheartening opening up to ppl about it & them basically going "wtf that's gross!!!" & the conversation being about their discomfort rather than like. the power imbalance i was subjected to, the breaking of trust, the inability to escape because it happened under the same roof, etc... flattening these issues into eww it's icky!!! & refusing to engage with it further only hurts the victims, sends a message that they're immutably tainted

[@PlentyofFodder]

Fwiw I’m so sorry you had to go through that.

[@Senjamin]

I was trying to understand why that take was bothering me as well without delving into my own situation and trying to describe it properly and you nailed it so thank you. I don't like "well technically" discussions like this that try and argue why it's ok, but they're born of the "cause it's just yucky!!" thing. it completely ignores why these situations are dangerous and traumatizing and just kneejerk going "ew gross," also makes isolation worse for the people who've been subject to it. I think it's a good conversation to try and talk through because it gives a better avenue for identifying and healing abuse and also like. educating on the factors within. if that makes sense. sorry you've been through that also 🙏

[@tonyloafpoundstone]

Sip's 'It wasn't me' is the hardest I've laughed in a while. Incredible outtro. 😂

[@OSCrustacean]

The karaoke at the end is phenomenal

[@dingledonk8027]

NL really hit chat with the "why go across town when you can go across the hall?" logic

[@Brodolf_Gainzdeer]

Yeah but like.... the parents went across town so step-siblings could go across the hall.

[@hann8103]

Up next: Is blood-relation incest ok if they don't have kids? Looking forward to how he'll handle that one.

[@goldend791]

Tbh even if it is, it's just such a fucking can of worms, you better just not do it.

[@julimos7301]

Literally the exact same situation, sure, it''ll be frowned upon, but as long as you're not actually hurting anyone then fuck it go for it.

[@SexySkeletons69]

In that case I think the potential problematic power dynamic becomes more of a focus.

[@jackgurney6961]

Hot take, if you’re against incest because it would produce deformed children you support eugenics

[@spacejambluray2591]

@@SexySkeletons69what power dynamic? The only answer is to protect young men but I know that would never be your objective so what are you talking about? Regardless if you’re at the point morally where you think the only issue with incest is “the power dynamic” then and I am sorry brother it’s over.

[@Mindofthequill]

My friend back in high school was dating a girl. Later on his mom sprung a surprise on him, she was engaged to his girlfriend's dad. I often wonder how they never knew but people's families are just weird sometimes man and dont share anything. So anyway he started getting made fun of at school for dating his, now, future step-sister. I often wonder where they are now. Anyway I'm telling this story to show I get where NL is coming from in this argument.

[@lontvany]

Hes asking an uncomfortable question but isnt illogical.

[@shnorbles]

like 80% of people over the age of 70 are married to someone they're related to, it's always been a thing that happens but people just don't talk about it

[@FixtaFernback]

@@shnorbles 100% of people who are married are married to someone they are related to.

[@jamesmccomb9525]

​@@shnorblesYeah but usually in those circumstances it's not people you grew up with, just a cousin from the neighbouring town or village or whatever. It's way more weird and questionable to be having sex with someone that you were raised with as siblings, regardless of the blood relation.

[@manuelsputnik]

​@@sandensonDomestic Girlfriend is peak. Life imitates art.

[@MsNobody1337]

Librarian is a hero for letting the sips and NL song play out fully

[@TenaciousDealer]

He right though, it definitely get's even weaker when they only become step siblings later in life sometimes after they've already met etc

[@TheUltimateShade667]

I agree.

[@seda_11]

Ye my mom dated a guy with kids in their 20s when I was also in my 20s. The hypothetical crossed my mind a few times and ultimately I figured that it wouldn't be too weird if it happened since we were adults when we met each other. His daughter was not remotely my type though and they ended up breaking up anyways lol

[@danielsan901998]

I mean, if you think it gets weaker the later in life they become step siblings it's because you understand that the more familiar relation it is the worse it is, meaning that he is wrong. In the end this is all about the environment, there is a expectation of no romantic relations in a familiar environment, breaking this expectation is negative because people don't want to worry about romantic interest from their family members, just like people don't want to worry about romantic interest from their doctor.

[@TenaciousDealer]

@@danielsan901998 If an argument goes from weak to even weaker doesn't mean it was a good argument brother. I agree I think I'd find it weird if they'd been step siblings for 20 years but that doesn't make it wrong. It's completely taking away the main issue with incest being the possibility of passing down regressive genes is much higher which causes cumulative problems for every generation that participates. Which is exactly what NL is saying.

[@danielsan901998]

@@TenaciousDealer That's like saying that stealing less valuable things makes the argument against stealing weaker, you are ignoring the main issue being the familiar relationship.

[@Catastophi]

i love when he says something thats absolutely insane but is also right

[@peppercorn1553]

This is why he's lasted this long, he's no fence sitter and he's willing to fistfuck the turkey to serve a great dinner

[@skunkbert]

there might not be anyone touching that dish, but by god is he cooking

[@Vulture_King]

This is not right at all, the only half decent point he responded to was emotional incest and his argument was "I don't think we're ready for that in 2024". If they were raised as siblings it's weird, if they were like 15 when they met it's fine.

[@SaladDongs]

@@Vulture_King BUT WHY? WHY IS HE NOT RIGHT? WHAT'S YOUR POINT? WHY IS IT WEIRD IF THEY WERE RAISED AS SIBLINGS? GIVE US AN ARGUMENT. Why would it be "like 15"? What's "like" 15? Is it actually 15 or around it? When does it become ok and why 15? Why not 18? Why not 12? Why not 16? Why is it ok at all even if they grew up separately? Go ahead. The world needs to know why Richie Tenenbaum is doing something wrong! Back up what you say with reason, or else why say it at all?

[@Archflip]

I think a lot of his points about people arguing poorly and distinctions between different types of arguments and their relative objectiveness are quite good. Also good on him to respond to the weirdness of potential divorces. It's a good faith discussion.

[@AndrewNajash]

It’s crazy how many people have an inability to draw a distinction between what they like/dislike and what is good/bad or moral/immoral. This isn’t specific to this issue, even things utterly trivial like video game preferences see this too, people can’t just say “I don’t like this” they have to say “I don’t like this and it’s objectively bad” when in reality it’s neither objectively good or bad, it just comes down to whether or not you like it, and that should be sufficient when deciding your own behaviour. If something grosses you out or is off putting to you just say “I don’t like this” or “I wouldn’t want to do it”, claiming it’s somehow objectively bad is very silly unless you can actually explain why something is so bad other people should be restricted from doing it.

[@ziwuri]

+2

[@Meowth666]

Me at the company picnic with my spoon and jar of buttered mayonnaise be like:

[@anoukk_]

I kind of disagree with your point on "it’s neither objectively good or bad". To me there is definitely an objective quality to storytelling but that also says little about my enjoyment of the story. It can be both fun and bad and it can be both really good and totally not enjoyable at the same time. It's just important to separate enjoyment from quality. I am often a bit annoyed by the system of user ratings because it's made it too easy to conflate enjoyment and quality.

[@dapa4814]

It’s so refreshing to see someone who knows basic philosophy in this comment section

[@Phoenix0F8]

@@anoukk_ Music, videogames and film all have standards for why they can be objectively good or bad. The problem is that people often conflate *their own opinion* of that media as being the same thing as the objective standard, and quite often it's not. From our individual perceptions, I'd back-of-the-napkin that our stated tastes tend to be 75% personal opinion and 25% objective when we critique things. Some people are better at it than others (that's why the profession of critic exists after all) but for most people it's very difficult to separate the subjective from the objective. That's the point I think OP was trying to make, as a tangent from talking about mistaking the Ick for a moral evil.

[@orb3190]

He's entering his Destiny arc

[@slick3996]

“you’re all actually agreeing with me” maxxing

[@ven6556]

destiny if he was good

[@apeirotopecrow7957]

so true

[@nicholasg.5441]

Cant wait for the coconut island arc, not looking forward to the words in private arc

[@pkphyre8920]

I hope not I don't want NL to be racist.

[@harryb12993]

This is why NL is a real one. He thinks therefore he is.

[@joeyjoah]

NL just sitting there being right and all chat can do is go huh?? Bwuh??

[@lontvany]

Lmao

[@lawncrow]

George W Bwuh??

[@TheMajorStranger]

Reason chat argue with NL is it feed his banter module. He say something insane, we reply with as much insanity and the immortal engine keep going. Does he want a bunch of Yes man/+2/ICANT? that's boring and doesn't give us the librarian clip we need.

[@sakesaurus]

it would also make him too empowered to say insane stuff. We gotta keep the Egg Despot in check

[@Szanth]

He put out hundreds of Isaac episodes without chat, he doesn't need the banter module fed, it's gone, he spent it

[@B2Roland]

He also only picks bad responses. But it's massively entertaining. I can't blame him

[@laszlovincze5095]

@@B2Roland looking for bad responses in NL's chat isn't exactly a needle in a haystack situation

[@entropymanufacturing]

thousands of chatters fighting for their life crying throwing up trying to prove that morals are objective just because the subject matter is extremely uncomfortable

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

For morality to function, we do need to assume some things are just objectively true on a base level, it's just that the idea of "having a sexual/romantic relationship with someone you're related to" doesn't strictly violate any of those base assumptions

[@entropymanufacturing]

@@TheThunderbirdRising morality doesn't function, the human psyche is entirely arbitrary and abstract. morality isn't thermodynamics, the standard model of physics the one and only closest thing we have to objective anything and it doesn't include morality particles. that doesn't mean "nothing matters, be cruel all the time" it just means that it's relative and infinitely more complex than anyone in a modernist epistemology wants to entertain

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

@@entropymanufacturing it's not that they're literally physically true, but we need to act as though they are in order for anyone to come to any agreement on a moral framework

[@entropymanufacturing]

@@TheThunderbirdRising i see what you mean, however any approach to morality that isn't relative to the desires and needs of everyone currently participating (minimising negative emotions and maximising consciousness to put it bluntly) and instead basing it on a fixed consensus unavoidably, or rather, by design, causes morality to be manufactured, and thus leaves gap in consensus. this process dehumanises and shoves the very real people in society considered edge cases of philosophical thought experiments off that proverbial/real edge and constructs stratums of people that are considered ontologically problematic. im not arguing with you or calling you a moron or whatever, i replied mostly to serve as decent reading for you and those here that had their curiosity piqued and i'm not interested in replying extensively and oversimplifying several lifetimes worth of intellectual development on large philosophical political fields. if you want a long summary: any narrative of morality that is not relativistic fails to meet its own proposed idea of "good morals" because it makes enormous sacrifices in favour of "stability". that notion of stability is a construct and a radioactive structural artifact of liberal democracy, which favours, in tandem, both fascist and capitalist ideology and class structure. if you're in any way part of a marginalised demographic it should at this point be obvious why moral (and policy) centrism isn't conducive to a happy and healthy life when the opposing positions are "all of us live" vs "all of us are deliberately killed", e.g, a position between "morality is objective" and "morality is relative" fails to satisfy either position yet is more harmful to the vulnerable. if you want to know more, read deleuze, adorno, horkheimer, foucault, etc. i'll acknowledge i've written written far too much to be socially acceptable now but i wanted to be more honest and informative than a rude dismissive joke followed by a skull emoji considering it's a topic i'm versed in that people should honestly know a lot more about, have a nice day

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

@@entropymanufacturing @entropymanufacturing I'm not talking about hard coding the entire moral structure, I'm talking about a handful of basic precepts that must be true in order to construct the rest of the moral code relative to its context. Like, the trolley problem doesn't work without the presumption that saving lives is inherently worthwhile. There needs to be a baseline to even begin having the types of discussions you are talking about

[@IcePlays]

"I'll accept if you say the vibes are off" and .5 seconds later does not accept the point that the vibes are off

[@l0cr260]

10:26?

[@sugarblue7571]

thats just saying "I dont want a relationship with my stepsibling because it makes me feel weird" not "here is a reason why it is bad" he is absolutely correct in that there is nothing wrong, its just the majority of people have actual biological siblings and to them the question is always tainted but they refuse to accept that they have a unreasonable bias (as in to say the bias is unreasonably used as justification)

[@billy_g_44]

@l0cr260 8:22 I think. "What's the reason it's not done? You can say cuz the vibes are off. That's fine, I'll accept that. Because it's weird? Ok, but why is it weird?"

[@watchingperson5357]

i mean he explained why "vibes off" and "is weird" is different: because "vibes" implies some sort of emotional incompatibility, while "weird" is just saying "society says so" which is not a good argument

[@thederp9309]

It’s because “the vibes” are their emotional stance. If someone doesn’t feel interested to begin with then it’s fine they don’t inherently feel that way. “It’s weird” implies it’s about remaining social normative in their own opinion as it’s the stance perpetuated by the society but we have to recognise why it’s even weird the begin with from a logical basis, then have an actual philosophical discussion if the said reasons may not be good enough or even if there any reasons at all. Basically the “vibes” are a person’s own emotions and feelings, where as “weird” is about social norms which sways your feelings…. They are different

[@billy_bat9754]

To give a serious answer, I would think it's probably actually related to the power dynamics. Ideally in a relationship you'd want to implicitly have the ability to break up without there being some extrenious reason why it might hurt your life overall, similar to why people don't want to date coworkers. But if it's your family, you can't decide to consent to being in the relationship, and therefore a lot of little things withing the relationship, without the cloud of having your ex be your sibling/cousin/whatever be a factor in your thinking, which obviously sort of invalidates the consent in many ways.

[@walterwhite468]

I think you mean relationship dynamic or family dynamic.

[@billy_bat9754]

@@walterwhite468 No, because what I said there gives power to one or both members of the relationship. Since the relationship intrinsically makes it harder to say no/leave somebody, you have more power over your partner than you normally should. Which people are likely to exploit intentionally or otherwise.

[@Bone8380]

Thats an argument for skewed power dynamics being bad, not against the situation itself inherently being immoral, because the situation doesn't necessarily require skewed power dynamics to exist.

[@pureexile1702]

@@billy_bat9754 power dynamics is a weak argument. every relation has some sort of power dynamics. someone always get's more wage etc etc

[@Haughington]

this outro song overshadows the video anytime it comes up

[@addison_reilly5904]

When I heard the outro start to pray I was PRAYING that you left the whole clip in, I was so happy to see you made the right call

[@SirLordPanzer]

Librarian actually booted up jstor for a pop-up video bit, incredible commitment

[@RandomAutist]

POV: You are me about to hear the most insane banter bit your favourite streamer is about to drop.

[@JojaBC]

Holy shit the sips ending vocals are exquisite. I can't believe I've never seen that before

[@Justjoey17]

Careful NL the pipeline starts at stepsiblings and ends at “goblin shortstack”

[@Goodwarrior12345]

Morally neutral

[@mayac69]

If the issue with incest is the biological aspect, then Incest yuri in this context is completely unproblematic. I cannot in good faith argue against this, so NL's logic is completely flawless.

[@cheatyhotbeef2636]

How about beastiality?

[@TheGlassgubben]

The main way we instinctually avoid biological incest is by avoiding social incest. In other words, when two stepsiblings enters a sexual relationship, it means that their anti incest instincs aren't working correctly and I think that's the bad vibes that chat couldn't spell out.

[@LunarLambda]

you didn't need to admit to enjoying incest yuri on the internet tbh

[@B2Roland]

​@@TheGlassgubbenit definitely isn't just the blood relationship that gives us the ick. If you grow up with someone AS YOUR SIBLING regardless of your actual blood relationship, it's weird as fuck to want to have sex with them.

[@FranXiT]

​@@B2Roland why tho? "It's weird" is no argument. And this comes from someone with a biological sister who I would NEVER do anything with, in case you think this is just the only child take

[@tsawy6]

Unironically it's very easy to construct scenarios where incest 'logically' is totally fine. Outside of coersive grooming scenarios or the genetic risks of inbreeding, its hard to impossible to point to any of our other foundational societal values and say it derives from that. Like, robbery or murder or rape can readily be tied back to so many fundamental notions of consent and do no harm and violating the fundamental rights of others but incest doesnt have it. The simple fact of the matter is, for what are probably genetic reasons, we find it icky and that's where it begins and ends. Which isn't wrong in a moral relativist sense, any ethical code is as valid as any other but it's very very interesting to me.

[@rowan4327]

Do you actually believe that any ethical code is as valid as any other one?

[@tsawy6]

@@rowan4327 I think theres no meaningful sense in which i can argue my code vs someone who genuinely, consistently and deeply believes a different one. This doesnt prevent me from adhering to mine very strongly

[@rowan4327]

​@@tsawy6but if you were to be against incest because it's icky you'd need to be against a bunch of other stuff to be consistent, wouldn't you?

[@titaniumant1282]

@@rowan4327 what is this insane argument technique? Who on earth "needs" to be 100% consistent, and even if you did incest is so far removed from most of life I don't actually see what else I need to support/fight because I find incest way too icky

[@rowan4327]

@@titaniumant1282 the original commenter said that all ethical codes that are "genuinely, *consistently*, and deeply believed" are equally valid. I am engaging with the original commenter's argument I would agree with you that most people don't bother making sure their moral systems are internally consistent, but I would say that this is a flaw with their systems. A good moral system should be able to properly address hypothetical events, even if they are unlikely IMO.

[@Vasciras]

Entire conversation boils down to "vibe is off", as long as you don't have kids and the power dynamic is equal then who cares

[@Yotanido]

They're not related, why the ban on having kids?

[@Vulture_King]

If they were raised as siblings then it is absolutely weird. Who cares if you're "technically" not related when everybody else views it as two siblings fucking eachother (including their parents probably).

[@Greenhawk4]

@@Vulture_King the whole point of incest is it has to be related so its not incest.

[@Vulture_King]

@@Greenhawk4 Ok John Oxford if you use more than 3 brain cells and actually read the comment you'll see that my reply doesn't say incest anywhere and neither does the original comment

[@Greenhawk4]

@@Vulture_King it’s literally what you are taking about and what this video is about.

[@nickb3164]

4:33 chatter says "yet" in response to "i have never been a younger sibling" whats going to happen?

[@meowsicle7463]

Pairing this with that "uncovering the incest epidemic" video for an epic lunch break

[@OctogonManny]

Best rendition of ‘It wasn’t me’ I’ve ever heard

[@JPTQJR]

All that chat needed to do was point out the Westermarck Effect/Reverse sexual imprinting and NL didn't have to do the weirdass incest bit.

[@TheLibraryofLetourneau]

i tried...

[@santiagowho]

Everyone talking shit till Principe Vegeta goes on a walk.

[@131]

it’s actually pretty scary how many people don’t actually stop for a second to analyze why they do/believe something.

[@APaleDot]

"I try to come up with my behavior from the inside out" based and INTP-pilled

[@BlueMidnightMist]

Him saying he doesn't have siblings explained the whole conversation.

[@kiiturii]

he's genuinely so right

[@drewpeacock9087]

Nah no way, if they grew up together from an early age that has so much room for abuse and bad dynamics. Two adults who just happen to be step siblings though is no issue of course

[@echiko4932]

​@@drewpeacock9087idk man, marriages do that shit anyway

[@walrusader8839]

@@drewpeacock9087 so does every single relationship?

[@darrylflethen799]

@@drewpeacock9087it wasn't since a super early age she was adopted when Ritchie and Margot were partially grown

[@lucmaluco100]

This is peak nl and is why I've been watching this guy for 10 years

[@tiersie]

Not touching the actual subject matter with a 10 ft pole, just chiming in to say that the "you only have to visit one family during the holidays" is a faulty argument. The whole reason they're your step-sibling is because they have 2 parents that are not 1 family. So you'd still visit at least 2 households, unless the step dad murdered his ex-wife or smth idk

[@wendelhaha1]

in the movie shes adopted, for reference

[@Silk_WD]

You'll have visit three households, unless there's some kind of spouse-swap scenario

[@sehguhnai8223]

@@wendelhaha1 Wait this is WAY weirder what the fuck, I was on NL's side

[@CallumBradbury]

@@sehguhnai8223 How is it in any way weirder?

[@mrscsi6472]

incest can be bad for the following three reasons: 1: genetically deformed offspring 2: problematic power dynamics 3: destruction of families it’s possible for incest to happen without these, of course. It’s just that saying this makes you sound unhinged.

[@vonskeedle5309]

When it comes to a step sibling (assuming both people are adults), there isn't *really* much of a real reason to say there's any real issue there in a vacuum. But the issue with normalizing it broadly comes down to how to applies to children. Young kids simply should not be presented this as a normal option because of how much it complicates growing up and opens a younger sibling up for abuse. And that doesn't change with step siblings.

[@jacobnussbaum2309]

This guys socrates' greatest soldier. With simple questions he's undermining all of societies assumptions

[@kingd8m]

Okay the way ive always argued this is that EVEN with step-family, there are intrinsic power dynamics. Who’s older, how the parents treat their children, the circumstances of living together for long periods of time, all of these things and more factors will create levels of power within a family. This isnt bad by itself, its just how family dynamics work, but power dynamics ARE bad within a romantic relationship. Even if two siblings are step-siblings, one of them will occupy a greater position of power than the other within their own family dynamic. No matter what. Because of this, siblings (EVEN if theyre not blood related) hands down should not pursue romantic partnership. Someone will always be in charge, and someone else will always be a victim. EDIT: Watched more of the video and this was mentioned. I still stand by my opinion.

[@LucasDarkGiygas]

Power dynamics are a thing in basically every relationship though. When one person gets paid more that's a power imbalance. When one is the breadwinner and the other is stay-at-home, when one is the other's boss at work. Even a perfectly normal straight relationship has a power imbalance as men are almost always stronger than women.

[@milesdeepe]

The Shaggy "Wasn't Me" End Slate has to be intentional

[@frankiecedeno3724]

It’s definitely that he has no siblings and therefore can’t relate to the closeness of that relationship. I don’t have step-siblings either but I can’t imagine it’s all that different if they were raised together from a young age. Maybe it’s different if they become step siblings as teenagers or older, I could see an argument for that relationship being okay?

[@echiko4932]

Most stepsiblings are simply not inclined to hook up with each other. But what if they are?

[@thegoblinking279]

yeah like everyone can intrinsically understand why incest across generational lines (parent/grandparent/uncle/aunt/whatever) is bad because it comes down to pedophilia again, but for people who dont have a frame of reference for sibling incest, they just dont really get it. sibling relationships are a really unique situation that just doesnt have an analogue for only children. so when people make this argument its just extremely easy to tell they dont have siblings because everyone who does can understand that its wrong on a psychological level, even if they cant quite explain it logically at first. however i do think its a valuable question to raise so that those of us who do have siblings are able to properly articulate why its wrong to people who dont and keep asking these questions lol

[@TheIbney00]

This being the one non-anime thumbnail is crazy.

[@TheLibraryofLetourneau]

i was tempted trust me...

[@roseisntonline]

perfect credits music for the video

[@WGBDP]

Debate aside, poor spiders. They’re just trying to live their life too, man.

[@samthemessiah9330]

The REAL hot take is that its morally okay for blood related siblings to be in a relationship

[@TearsOfThem]

No, it’s morally and legally, scientifically wrong

[@samthemessiah9330]

@@TearsOfThem why

[@fixpontt]

@@TearsOfThem why is it wrong if they never have children? why the relationship itself wrong?

[@thegloop5018]

that tennis match in the background really got me thinking about how some video games are just really fucking bad huh

[@h311dr1p]

this rules lmao. he's cooking

[@Dogy0909]

I hope his wife leaves him because men like this will probably assault their daughters. I lost all respect for him

[@rubhan94]

Omg that song with Sips at the end was amazing 😂😂

[@TheUltimateShade667]

Never +2 NL harder in my life. Especially on the point that you can't even bring up these sorts of topics without being labelled as the weirdo for simply asking the question. I don't personally care who you love as long as it's consensual. As far as it being weird it's not any weirder than being gay. Just something messing with our wires in our brains.

[@poseidonm7]

This outro will never get old

[@fdrswheelchair556]

DGG already had this discussion years ago, glad to see NL is expanding to discussing why we think some things are bad.

[@Akixkisu]

Vibes versus weird is such a good distinction.

[@larrydigger461]

"It's like wearing 3 hats" +2

CEO of analogy

[@irresponsibledad]

Best analogy since "you are the center of a protractor"

[@tactiCole_]

shaggy's wasn't me or the fishing song will always keep me to the very end of the vid

[@EDoyl]

"Do people let you talk like this in real life?" Unbelievable response.

[@filedotnix]

I will now be saying "It's my brand of overly objective reasoning and communication" to explain my autism.

[@tastyhaze2058]

His bit about everyone but him reading the behavior of people around themselves and mimicking it is the most autism-coded thing I've heard this week

[@denks7849]

maybe, but he's not wrong. he's simply describing how we function as a social species, and generally he is correct-most people don't critically analyze their behavior or reasoning and simply go with the flow of what's socially acceptable or the norm, and that's natural. but when we have a good upbringing and education, and engage our neocortices which make us human, we can assess whether the actual logic behind our reasoning is sound or not. but not many have that privilege for a multitude of reasons, so the majority will be unaware of the extent of our herd behavior.

[@bkhai1041]

​@@denks7849 Hrm? Need think more about feelings? Hmmm... NO. You dumb. I smart.

[@filedotnix]

@denks7849 the majority are also not autistic

[@tastyhaze2058]

@@denks7849 Mb I should have mentioned that I am also autistic and find this very relatable. It's how I picked up on it.

[@ArianeMae15]

i watched half the channels videos within a few days, hes the most unhinged man ive ever witnessed and i didnt even get to catch him on live yet

[@janman]

Margot is Richie’s adopted sister, not his stepsister. The funeral scene suggests that the family is okay with them being together, even Raleigh seems to accept it. There is a priest present, Father Peterson, who isn’t appalled with them being so close at the grave.

[@Greenhawk4]

is that not the same thing? they aren't related so you would still really just call her a step sister.

[@janman]

@@Greenhawk4stepfamily is created when two people marry of which at least one has a child, the non-birth family becomes stepfamily. If both people are parents through a previous relationship, their children can be legally adopted by the stepparent, at which point they become adopted stepchildren. This is not the case in The Royal Tenenbaums. Margot is adopted by Royal and Etheline Tenenbaum, who are Chas and Richie’s biological parents. Margot is solely adopted into the Tenenbaum family. Edit: after Henry and Etheline marry, they and all the kids, Chas, Richie, Margot and Walter(Henry’s son from his first marriage), become stepfamily of their new family.

[@Greenhawk4]

@@janman potato pototo

[@NathanBrownisawesome]

+2 to the chatter that said "I thought you were 90s maxxing I thought you didn't need a reason"

[@IcePlays]

8:34 Also hasn't he made it like a personality trait that he loves being the person trying to reject the premise of these questions

[@haldern501]

i get him ngl.. he's just asking an honest question and he's getting the most basic twitter logic responses

[@lusteraliaszero]

usually the really bad outcomes of incest are related to powerdynamics, not inbreeding, if they're related that CAN be fine too, so long as they don't reproduce, the real reason to flatly be against incest is how rarely it's healthy relationships, marrying the neighbors kid is not the same as marrying someone that didn't have a choice but to live in the same house as you for years and years, usually from childhood where one might have been much more mature than the other through their growing up. also just gonna be a chore if they have a bad breakup, lifetime of strained family meetups. obviously it isn't inherently bad, even real incest isn't. but you could argue there are potential good outcomes of a professor dating their student, or drunk driving. sometimes things are frowned upon because of the potential for bad outcomes not the innate badness of the action

[@nonpolar786]

In what way can the power dynamics be expressed? Would it be just as bad if the “sibling” was a foster kid and both “siblings” fully recognized this and never developed a true sibling relationship?

[@nonpolar786]

A professor dating a student is obviously not avoid idea because the professor grades the papers the student needs good grades on to graduate. I see no such obvious and absolute power difference between siblings

[@mdaily318]

Which is the exact reason it should be frowned upon, I don’t want people drunk driving just cause some are fine to do it. Same applies to incest, you add genetic problems on top of that and the inherent social and biological mechanisms our brain has against it and I don’t get why anyone is in favor of it.

[@lrba5524]

this guy wouldn't have survived gossip girl

[@macfine]

I think it depends how long you are raised as siblings. Raised from like 6 no way. But meeting at like 16 I wouldn't recommend it , but I wouldn't cast stones at it.

[@mdaily318]

Kinda what I’m thinking, I don’t know why put 16-17 seems like the cutoff, any younger and it adds an icky factor.

[@stratospheric37]

I like that everyone is being a pseud about this in the comments

[@TheFX37]

NL truly is an only child because people with siblings would never ask something like that

[@Gorbgorbenson]

Ok Dennis Prager. "What's your argument?"

[@infinitesquarez]

George RR Martin if he was a streamer.

[@bha1959]

"She's related to... her daughter" This is the kind of high caliber commentary that I frequent this establishment for.

[@mityakiselev]

I actually don't get this stuff as well. I don't have any friends or anything like that, I pretty much don't talk to people, and observing random people is creepy, so I don't really know how social stuff works. The i-word thing is basically taboo because if you have kids with a blood relative you have a way higher probability of them having genetic disorders and dying horribly, I get that. So the real question is, what if you just don't have kids 4Head ? Same goes for a step-sibling, a person who is literally not related to you. Do people consider it weird out of a force of habit or what? Like, where is the defining criterion on what is i-word and what isn't? Is it being "raised as siblings"? Cousins aren't raised as siblings, in most families they barely see each other, yet they are related so it's i-word. Childhood friends know each other since, well, it's pretty self-explanatory... so what's the actual weird thing? Considering someone to be close to you? Like, if you thought of someone as family, they're automatically related to you? What are you gonna say next, kissing your homies is i-word as well? Someone please clarify

[@zakki9491]

There is definetly some psychological thing inside of most peoples brains at least that just makes the thought of a relationship like that really weird, most likely to prevent possible further biological issues to keep the species alive. It can definetly lessen depending on your relationship with your own family, if you have other siblings of a different gender etc, but the thought of someone being in a relationship like that is already baseline weird for most people. You can also definetly internally/subconsciously see childhood friends etc in a similar vein to family or not, but you are still not in the same home every day so there is a psychological like line there already due to circumstances. Step-siblings is like weird by association. As NL said, the vibes are off, but it really depends depending on like the circumstances of when they became related by law. The younger you are the easier the familial assocation grows in your head and it becomes a taboo for you.

[@Romanticoutlaw]

it's gut-level instinctual ick (that has been socially reinforced for generations). It's like how kids just don't like vegetables until they get a taste for them, because eating random plants got our ancestors taken off the life registry, so we're predisposed to a distaste for it. If your brain registers two people as "family" it's not actually running the math on whether or not they could or would have kids together, it just knows "family romance bad"

[@mityakiselev]

@@zakki9491 so basically people gaslit themselves on two different levels

[@zakki9491]

@@mityakiselev if you wanna go the "nothing really matters" route then sure

[@steveqi9309]

I am pretty sure most people consider it to be: related by blood and/or raised together.

[@ItsMichaelDavis]

I always stay to listen to the full "It wasn't me" duet

[@redstealth5106]

That's a recurring outro? I thought it was chosen for this topic lol

[@ItsMichaelDavis]

@@redstealth5106 Fortunately yes, but the librarian also definitely chooses that song for videos it fits better with

[@Stealwing33]

Straight up, The reason it isn't done is the same reason you shouldn't date coworkers. If it goes south you are stuck with the person. You leave the person with nowhere to retreat to and as such you can make both your life and their life miserable. At least when you're married you can leave and never see them again. Can't escape family as easily.

[@tgirltouhou]

by that logic a teenager shouldnt date anyone they go to school with

[@Stealwing33]

@@tgirltouhou Teenagers get to go home, away from the person they are dating/are awkward with. Slash, they aren't forced to interact and when they are the problem persists

[@ConFusi0n]

The 'vibes' vs 'weird' discussion was surprisingly profound (10:25)

[@Ghost-kr9nr]

Easy way to put it in real scenario (I think) is when you get those extremely off vibes from someone compared to just viewing someone as weird. Weird people stand out because something on the outside in there self expression is different from the norm. Off vibes usually cant be pinpointed to any such out of the norm behaviour but the subtle things that your mind pick up and tells you, "Stay away from this one.", One is based on comparison to learned societal norms, the other is a subconscious personal internal judgement on the persons intentions.

[@emannuelmartinez]

NL is such an only child.

[@parkourbee2]

I got a Bumble ad on this video.

[@user-oz6ft4ud7j]

6:47 goes insanely hard

[@Slater6977]

The fucking cock and balls bit got me crying 😂I fucking love this guy he’s teaching chat how to argue

[@TheAbram099]

Sorry for the of topic but which tennis game is this?

[@TheLibraryofLetourneau]

top spin 2k25, its pretty garbage though. pay-to-win out the ass for a $60 game

[@TheAbram099]

@@TheLibraryofLetourneau damn, that sucks. I got some virtua tennis nostalgia so this caught my eye...

[@theultimatebro9278]

Nothing funnier than the opening being him locked in on a game of tennis

[@yassineb.8659]

i feel like this question perfectly seperates people who grew up with siblings and people who grew up without

[@JonahTheMans]

YES, IVE BEEN ARGUING THIS FOR YEARS, I HAVE A BROTHER (blood) AND I HAVE BEEN SAYING IT MAN. THE ONLY VALID ARGUMENT IS THAT THE FALLOUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP WOULD HOLD TOO MUCH CONSEQUENCE.