Norway v Jehovah's Witnesses (Day 6)

Monica gives us an update on the last day in court. Morale is high for the ex-Witnesses and Watch Tower isn't looking happy. Please head over to stopmandatedsh... and lend your support - Tell your story, Take the survey, Donate, or Share our content to help get the word out about our global campaign to stop mandated shunning in high-control groups like Jehovah's Witnesses.

[@tammyg8031]

Thanks for all your hard work. Watchtower must be stopped.

[@talina2020]

Thank you guys, i am listening to you from Texas and you all have my support 🫶🫂 I baptized at the age of 13, disfellowshipped at 21 in 1999 and my parents threw me out of the house. What was my sin?? Question doctrins that did not make any sense. From that day on, i never saw my parents again. I am glad the wachtower is reaping what they have sown.

[@SMShunning]

Thank you for sharing your story. We are sorry to hear you went through this. It's wrong that you should lose your family because of questioning your beliefs.

[@morningglory9288]

@talina2020 my heart is broken for you. 💔😢 I hope you had somewhere to go.

[@Spikes100]

Of course the shunning still goes on. A few months ago 3 JW friends of 15 yrs started shunning me and continue to do so because I cannot be associated with ANY org that’s involved in CSA . Keep up the good work, I send my love to all ex JWs xxx

[@SMShunning]

Thank you for tuning and lending you support. Best wishes from the Team at Stop Mandated Shunning 🙏

[@donnyetta]

I left for the same reason as you. I was ashamed of the religion so resigned by letter. Really do not miss any of them. They worship false prophets and are too brainwashed to care about the abused jw children.

[@RonPOMO-ps9fm]

Thank you very much for these updates.

[@SMShunning]

You're very welcome. Thank you for your support.

[@guido0412]

Great testimony! This is exactly my case. I joined an evangelical church and am a Christian now - I live the same live, stick to christian values, read the Bible (even more so). Our marriage is great (my wife is still a JW). But people like me are the worst of worse - they are apostates in JWs eyes.

[@SMShunning]

We are sorry to hear this. Your story is representative of many who have left in order to join a Christian church. This is what the Norweigien government refers to as "free exit". Yes, you can leave, but you lose your family due to the mandated shunning policy Watch Tower still has in force. Leaving to join another church is often seen as worse than other "sins", on account of the fact that you have become an apostate. Their rule in these situations is to "not even say a greeting", despite the fact that the person still believes in Jesus. That's not true freedom of religion.

[@morningglory9288]

@guido0412 it's the same case with me. My daughter and her husband no longer speak to me, and I've not met my 2 yr old granddaughter because I got baptised into another Christian religion.

[@mistermylo8607]

I can’t understand why these governments would give more money to any religious organization . WT is worth billions $$!

[@arneedlund8512]

I hope Islam is next on the list.

[@mamajan99]

The WT Real Estate Corporation found out that fraud pays!!! "They devour (defraud) widows' houses, and for the sake of appearance say long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.” Luke 20v47 Religion is a trap and a snare!

[@SMShunning]

Exactly. They certainly don't need the money. The sensible thing for Watch Tower to do would be to walk away.

[@Northwestlogger]

Money is the life source for the Watchtower, like water is to a plant, withold water from a plant it withers and slowly dies, Watchtower is so so thirsty!

[@astridmiller7938]

their image is also on the line

[@skippy1012]

Desperate

[@SMShunning]

Yes, the witholding of state funds is a good starting point in bringing about positive change.

[@SMShunning]

Yes, this is the reason they are appealing the state's refusal to recognise them as a registered religion. They don't like that it makes them look bad compared to other religions who the state has determined to be in compliance with human rights legislation.

[@SMShunning]

Indeed!

[@BigGamePlayer-hi9lu]

this is so encouraging well done guys ... ❤

[@SMShunning]

You're welcome 🙏

[@Duhble07]

Great update thank you. Day six seems to have been very decisive. 🙏🤞 Coincidentally, was talking to a cart witnesser today about the Norway trial, and the elder there said unequivocally “the congregation must keep bad association out and remain clean. If the unclean person suffers psychological pain, well, they brought it on themselves”. I asked him whether he feels that view bcuz his local congregation is more conservative? He answered no, that he’s witnessed all over the world and all congregations do the same everywhere. Nothing’s changed over the last 25 years. They thrive on negative social control to punish people. Norway must protect the vulnerable. This American experiment must change how it operates in Norway and elsewhere. Using psychological trauma and force to punish family members, simply bcuz they want to leave, is unconscionable. 🤬

[@devinmedeiros9466]

I am a ex jw and I love Jesus Christ so very much 💪💪💪💪💪🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤

[@mamajan99]

I'm so thankful of your love constant for our only leader Jesus. Like the Pharisees, JW's often make people twice as liable to HELL! Jesus says: "whenever you make convert, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves!" as they lose all faith and hope. Mt 23v13

[@SMShunning]

And you have every right to your personal beliefs. Although Stop Mandated Shunning is not a theological forum, it caters to people of many faiths and none. Our primary mission is to end the cruel practice of mandated shunning through legal means.

[@SMShunning]

Although Stop Mandated Shunning is not a theological forum for Christians or any other faith group, we respect your freedom of belief. It's just a shame that Watch Tower doesn't do the same. There was an ex-JW witness yesterday who testified how she has been shunned by her family because she chose to leave Jehovah's Witnesses and join another church. In her words, she wanted to be a "normal Christian". She should have been allowed to do this without it affecting her relationship with her family. We don't have an official view on matters such as whether certain people are going to hell or not. Our team members have differing views about religion, theology, God, the Bible etc., and we try not to impose them on others. Our mission is to end the practice of mandated shunning within high-control groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses through legal means.

[@Rupunzelsawake]

Thanks for the update! Of course, whether JW org /WT wins or loses, shunning will continue. A loss in court for the jws will be no consolation to all those suffering the effects of shunning. The best we can hope for is that reputational damage prevents people from joining , but that won't really help born-ins. It also might help some jws leave....only to be shunned, however. What I want to know is, why do we have human rights laws and treaties if the governments that ratify them are not prepared to enforce them? These governments have obligated themselves to uphold and defend human rights and to implement domestic law and policy to that end. Why is the Norwegian government saying, in effect, "Yes, you can continue violating the human rights of these Norwegian citizens, but we won't give you any more money"? How does this protect the rights of jws and exjws? It doesn't, its just a slap on the wrist for the violator. JW org should be forced to remove all references to shunning in mandatory terms, along with all the coercive language they use to enforce it, otherwise they cease to exist as an organisation . We have heard jws testify in court about their "practice" of shunning and see it is variable. It seems not all jws apply the printed instruction from the gb. So, why not scrap the printed instruction and allow jws to follow their own consciences after reading the relevant scriptural passages for themselves? "Mature" christians should be trusted to make their own decisions regarding who to associate with or not.

[@JedApama-g8q]

Good point! I did a search for the word shunning, shun and shunned in the Christian scriptures of the Bible used by the JW and did not find it once. Has anyone else done that and if you have, what did you find?

[@morningglory9288]

​@JedApama-g8q maybe that's why JW's say they don't shun. They'd say anything in their defense even if if doesn't make sense.

[@JedApama-g8q]

@@morningglory9288 I like when things make sense!

[@SMShunning]

So do we!

[@SMShunning]

Yes, there was lots of doublespeak going on in court on the part of Watch Tower.

[@michelejashinsky8409]

Thank u for the excellent update sending our ❤️ to all.

[@SMShunning]

You're welcome!

[@QuëstionšnÅňşwęŕż]

They really do need to bring out in court that one is pressured to avoid blood for fear of retaliation if they decide their conscious allows for transfusion. The elders will remove the individual and say the individuals actions constitutes disassociation. Its very manipulative and wrong and deadly.

[@SMShunning]

Yes, these are all issues that can, and most likely will, be explored as things progress. There were indications in the Norway appeal hearing (day 6) that the state was looking further into the high-control environment within Jehovah's Witnesses, not just their mandated shunning policy. Hopefully, this level of scrutiny will continue, not just in Norway, but in other countries.

[@joanjohnson5973]

You are blackmailed into baptism, dosent anyone remember antmo telling parents to withhold drivers licences. That clip should be shone in court.

[@Smaug185]

They probably scrubbed that talk from the website.

[@RebelRosey]

I missed that!! Sounds right.

[@JohnSpruce-u2h]

You are so right.....big Tony said drivers license won't come unless you get baptized.

[@SMShunning]

They have been systematically removing a lot of evidence from their website, including the 2016 video where a mother refuses to answer a call from her disfellowshipped daughter. Imagine if the daughter was in desperate need, or on the verge of suicide.

[@DDelrealove]

That was I! A sister told me that if I didn’t get baptized that my children would die at Armageddon. 😢

[@astridmiller7938]

WT is tripping over their own lying tongue.

[@SMShunning]

Yes, this is so obvious to see in the JW testimonies. The JWs watching this must be very confused.

[@NashonOsborne]

Thanks for the update

[@hellygeer1]

Calling in from an oil rig? I'll have to tune in for that later. That's great he had his info deleted, per law, and cannot get served his papers. LOL We need that law in the US for the Cult of Scientology. They mail you stuff for life if you give them your info.

[@SMShunning]

He did really well. We will have an update soon!

[@heidislettemo7551]

Jeg er så takknemlig og glad for de som vitner i retten! Og forteller hvordan det er. ❤🇧🇻

[@user-qo9rk2bo7o]

Hello everyone. Thanks for the information. Will it be possible to watch the video recording of these court sessions? Maybe something can reset the link. Thank you very much.

[@howssitgoing9538]

I was wondering this as well

[@SMShunning]

As yet we have no link to a video recording. If this becomes available it will no doubt be found over on the exjw Reddit sub. We will aim to report as we know more.

[@SMShunning]

As yet we have no link to a video recording. If this becomes available it will no doubt be found over on the exjw Reddit sub. We will aim to report as we know more.

[@robinbean4023]

Brilliant video

[@SMShunning]

Thank you 🙏

[@lindahernandez1781]

Sadly the families that are comp,Emely indoctrinated, will continue shunning their disfellowshipped family members and maybe with avenge

[@SMShunning]

Yes, this is mostly likely going to be the case for a long time. Even if Watch Tower was to come out and state implicitly that shunning was a "personal decision", they would still push the "bad association" narative, and withold priviedges from those who were not "exemplary". Even without specific rules mandating shunning, which we all know they clearly have, peer pressure and fear is still a factor. We hope that over time, the efforts we and others are making will shape a better future, but we are under not illusions that this is going to happen overnight. There is lots of work today, and we need your support. Head over to stopmandatedshunning.org for ways you can help. Thank you for watching our videos and taking the time to comment 🙏

[@joanferguson4194]

If all these Witness people are coming to observe the court case and hear Watchtower lawyers blatantly argue that shunning is merely a “personal matter” which they all know it’s not, can you imagine the questions ordinary JWs will be asking of their congregation elders??!! I wonder how elders in Norway are going to answer those questions. I hope the circular reasoning and outright lies such elders will have to concoct will wake some honest Witnesses up!

[@Danny-m6l]

The burning of KHs was before the Norway trial.

[@SMShunning]

Yes, the Watch Tower lawyers were trying to obfusicate the tue facts by claiming they were being stigmatised as a result of the trial.

[@Smaug185]

They are acting so skeazy now, i would think if you are a current witness that is observing the hypocrisy that would speak louder than anything. i know skeazy is not normally used in this context but no other word sounds right to me. Yes. skeazy.

[@RebelRosey]

Yes they are. It’s crazy the ones still going don’t see their lies. I hope all this publicity helps open peoples eyes.

[@SMShunning]

Yes, it must really be concerning to the JWs that are watching Watch Tower lawyers misrepresent what they have been told they should believe.

[@SMShunning]

Perhaps they will see. Let's hope so.

[@joanjohnson5973]

How long will it take to go through all these courts?

[@morningglory9288]

As long as it takes. I reckon at least to the end of the week.

[@joanjohnson5973]

@morningglory9288 I ment supreme court and European court. The longer it stays in courts it may mean they cannot loose their tax status. If they are deregistered and it holds up, then do they have to pay taxes on donations? This may be a reason to continue this because it affects the bottom line. Other countries will join in and they dont want that to happen. So if these other courts take years than thats years they dont have to pay taxes. Also, could it give them time to liquidate??

[@JohnSpruce-u2h]

Jan Frode Neilsen said if it goes to the HREU it would be around 2029....that would be at the European Union

[@trilithon108]

​@joanjohnson5973 Don't believe this effects their tax status but rather whether they will continue to receive the Norwegian governments free religious donation (I believe around US$1 million?).

[@SMShunning]

A while yet. If Watch Tower loses its appeal, it will probably take it to the Norwegian Supreme Court for a review. If the Supreme Court upholds the decision, they may very well take it to the European Court of Human Rights. Jan Frode Neilsen has posted a timeline of what he thinks could happen, and when. So far he's been pretty accurate. Maybe he's a prophet and doesn't know it? 🤣

[@lh1673]

Imagine JWs are actually changing God’s thoughts😅. They say the practice of shunning is from God’s word so we followed it past years, but nowadays we changed it, can say Hello. They are actually saying, Jah decided to change how to shun members😅I wish lawyers ask: Then, which GB got the message from Jah of saying only Hello is okay to the DFs!? Please give us the accurate message and the date and time y’all GB got that call from Up!

[@trilithon108]

I can understand why its squirmy uncomfortable for those attending JWs who have to listen to things they aren't usually exposed to 😳

[@SMShunning]

Yes, it must be very unnerving to hear active Jehovah's Witnesses lying to the government. Hopefully a few will wake up as a result of this.

[@richardanderson7091]

Funny, I went on Facebook and made a comment regarding false prophecies of Armageddon with the Bible clearly states no one knows the time and place except the father and received negative backlash because it was a Jehovah’s Witnesses Facebook page. They said why are you on here trying to spread your religion or beliefs I replied why do you come to my door and try to convert me to your religion? There was no more responses lol great video thank you very much for all you do to help people that have a desire to leave the JW’s.

[@JedApama-g8q]

I did a search for the words shunning, shun and shunned in the Christian scriptures of the Bible used by the JW and did not find it once. Has anyone else done that and if you have, what did you find?

[@SMShunning]

The team at Stop Mandated Shunning have differing views on religion and theology, and as a general rule, we focus on the legal aspects of mandated shunning. However, we have heard strong arguments that confirm what you are saying-that absolute shunning of all former members is not mandated in the Bible. Some Bible believers feel that the advice in Paul's letter to the Corinthians to "not eat with such a man" relates to internal discipline of "brothers" who are practicing a specific list of "sins", and that such a person, whilever remaining "a brother" within the church, should be "admonished", not shunned. Meanwhile, the apostle John's stricter instructions "not to say a greeting" apply to "antichrist" persons, not to someone who leaves a particular church but remains a believer in Jesus. The August 2024 has indentifed that Paul and John were discussing different situations, but as yet, Watch Tower still holds to their interpretation that socialising with a "removed" person, even if by voluntary disassociation, is prohibited by Scripture, and that even saying "hello" to someone who dares to voice disagreement with them is not allowed. They are now claiming that shunning either a) doesn't happen or b) is a personal decision, not mandated, which we all know is a lie. They also obfusicate the true situation by conflating various types of leaving (fading, disfellowshipping or "removal", and disassociation) to further confuse outsiders, including courts. In some case, they even say a person has voluntarily disassociated when they haven't, for example if they engage in political or religious activities such as worshipping at another church, or accepting a life-saving blood transfusion. The point is, there is a high level of control going on, and people within groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, and whatever the Bible does or does not teach, Jehovah's Witnesses do not truly have "freedom of religion", something which, ironically, Watch Tower claims they defend. The Norweigien government made the right decision not to endorse them as a registered religion, and not to support them with state funds. They have every right to refuse these things because Jehovah's Witnesses do not comply with their requirements for registration and funding. The court in Norway ins not advocating for the dissolution of Jehovah's Witnesses as a group. Jehovah's Witnesses are not being persecuted or prevented from operating as a religion within Norway. Nor are they seeking to interpret the Bible for Jehovah's Witnesses. The state is just saying it doesn't approve of how, as a group, they are mandated to treat people who leave their religion, and as such they don't want to give them their rubber stamp of approval.

[@JedApama-g8q]

@SMShunning Thanks for the clarification on the purpose and goals of this group.

[@morningglory9288]

I hoping all this publicity will shine a negative light on the org and other countries might follow suit. By pursuing this law suiit, WT could be shooting themselves in the foot.

[@SMShunning]

That is our hope too, and we are aiming to bring the issue of mandated shunning to the attention of governments around the world, not just in Norway.

[@morningglory9288]

@SMShunning that's awesome, thank you

[@SMShunning]

A big THANK YOU to the 6K of you who have watched our coverage of the Norway court trial over the past few days. This is a very new channel and we are still learning. Moving forward, we will be bringing you more content on the subject of mandated shunning and things we can do as a collective to help bring an end to this cruel and harmful practice. Please Like and Subscribe to our channel to help improve our visibility, and if you are able, visit our website at stopmandatedshunning.org to tell your mandated shunning story. We have lots of plans in progress to help raise awareness of this issue, and your stories are a vital part of making this happen. We also have a survey that you can complete, which will add to the data we are accumulating as part of our Roehampton research project. Again, thank you for your support, everyone! 🙏

[@aaronhawkins1541]

❤❤❤

[@SMShunning]

Thank you for your support 🙏

[@ScottLawson-uw1fh]

This appeal that the court is hearing is to examine to see if the original judgement was a proper decision? Sounds similar to an appeal of a judicial decision by the elders to determine if the original body of elders missed any evidence of repentance by the erring person at the time of the hearing.

[@SMShunning]

That's what Daniel said in one of the earlier videos. Ironic, isn't it?

[@Obudzona_]

👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋

[@SMShunning]

Thank you for your support 🙏

[@vincentkhumalo7713]

Greed is the driving force behind this Watchtower Organisation they want $$

[@eyeswideopen8570]

Will the state use the JW literature on shunning against them, because it is in a lot of Watchtowers. Also will any shunning videos be shown?

[@SMShunning]

This, along with witness testimonies, was the way they made their initial decision. Watch Tower argued that the state was not qualified to interpret Scripture. The state countered that that's not what they were doing. They were merely looking at what Watch Tower publications clearly instructed their members to do, namely, to shun people who were disfellowshipped or who voluntarily disassociated. The 2016 video of the mother who refused to answer a call from her daughter was also shown, providing clear evidence of how Jehovah's Witnesses are expected to act towards those who leave the group.

[@eyeswideopen8570]

@SMShunning Thank you, It is exciting to watch how this will unfold. I enjoy your coverage of the trial.

[@horus173]

Merci pour vos informations sur ce procès que nous les ex tjs suivant tous, bon courage et j'espère que nous allons gagner face a l ogre wachtower 😅

[@astridmiller7938]

a jw must feel wretched and angry inside on their viewpoint of apostates,.....if i had that bitterness inside it would drive me nuts.