M1 Garand Enbloc Timing with Oprod

[@chardon59803]

Fascinating and well explained. I'm going to have to watch this several times before I can wrap my head all the way around it. Lucky for me my timing seems okay.

[@norwich93CMP]

Thanks!!!!

[@SuperOnyxfire]

5:55 This right here, I'm a new garand owner and I have been trying to find out why my garand was not feeding rounds today, you finally explained it in perfect detail because I have this issue, the bolt does not want to go forward after securely placing an En-bloc clip inside the rifle.

[@norwich93CMP]

Now I hope you can fix it to your liking!!

[@tawtaw3234]

did you end up fixing this issue? i have the exact same problem. so far i have already tried a new bullet guide with no success...

[@connerhogan8110]

Great video. Just picked up a 1943 CMP rifle, but I’m having trouble pushing the enbloc clip to go all the way down into the magazine. The bolt is released, but it just rests against the top round since the clip can’t get fully seated and does not click (as if something is in the way). I tried a loaded clip with 7 rounds or less and that seems to work, but a loaded 8 round clip will not work. Much help appreciated here.

[@norwich93CMP]

Sounds like something else is the issue. Ensure the oprod is clean where the spring goes. Clean the spring too. Everywhere else also need to be clean. After that try again. Your spring should be good but when loading you need to snap your hand away really quick to strip that 1st of 8 rounds off. If it hangs on the 1st round and clears the enbloc tap the rear of the oprod handle forward to assist it. If the enbloc is stopping the bolt, but seated, you might need a new clip latch, check the spring on it to. I once had a CMP rifle and it had a weak spring because it was for a lock bar sight. Let us know how you make out!!

[@davidschaadt3460]

Very Helpful.Great video series.

[@norwich93CMP]

Glad it was helpful!

[@donhirschfield2560]

Thanks for the very informing video. On my M1 grand the spring was broken into three pieces I ordered a new one and it came in at 19 and three-quarter inches long I noticed the one you’re working on the oprod spring is 17 inches long should I shorten my off-road spring. How do I determine the length I need. Thanks

[@norwich93CMP]

Your welcome. Try firing the rifle first with you new spring. If it works then leave it be.

[@david47295]

This video has been really helpful with my troubleshooting efforts. Right now, my Garand is having this issue where a fully-loaded clip takes A LOT of pressure to fully seat; I have to rest the rifle on something and use both my hands to even hope to get it in. In addition to that, the bolt tries to close way before the clip is seated. Both problems seem to go away if I only load 6 rounds though, so I'm not sure what's going on. Do you happen to have any ideas as to what's happening?

[@norwich93CMP]

The operating spring can be too long, try swapping it out with a used USGI and see if you are getting the same problem.

[@david47295]

@@norwich93CMP Thanks for the response! I found out what the issue was. Turns out the bullet guide was out of spec and also damaged. The notch that engages the accelerator on the oprod catch was too tall. Plus, the part was bent upwards on that same side. Time to import some parts...

[@Robin6512]

Your sound is very soft. Great vid

[@adamsmyth584]

Excellent Video very informative.

[@norwich93CMP]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@FreeAmericaChannel]

Very nice explanation. Thanks!

[@norwich93CMP]

Thanks!

[@hunterdominguez7416]

Hey could you do a video on the enbloc clip early ejection problem? Iv just recently purchased a 1943 ww2 m1 garand "in the white" and have been having this problem. Does this video basically cover all the points to check for this problem? Your videos have helped a ton, appreciate it.

[@norwich93CMP]

Another video that will help is the Garand small internal parts: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2exZaCBobipebc that should also assist you.

[@BoHunter2010]

Thank you for all your videos. The main point for the timing here is to ensure the bolt doesn’t release before the clip is fully seated, correct? With my M1, I can fully seat the clip and the bolt does not try to come forward until I release downward pressure on the clip. As long as I hold the fully loaded clip down, the bolt stays back. Is that the intended operation?

[@nesquick84]

Yes that is the intended operation

[@norwich93CMP]

Yes, fully seated clip, then forward movement of the bolt on its own. Move thumb expeditiously. ;)

[@BoHunter2010]

Thanks. So, with a properly working rifle, I don’t see how “M1 thumb” is common. Honestly I was nervous as heck the first time I loaded mine. I even held the slide back to prevent it from getting me. After a few practice runs and feeling the slide not going forward until I released pressure, I got brave enough to just slam the clip all the way to the bottom and hold it there. The bolt didn’t go forward until I (yes, quickly) let off the pressure. Now, I’m probably going to get ahold of one some day that doesn’t hold open like mine and I’ll enter the hall of pain. But as long as mine is working as designed, I’m happy.

[@houndawg3]

@@BoHunter2010 M1 thumb doesn't happen during loading, ever. It happens when closing the action on an empty rifle, when your thumb is jammed down into the action and nothing is preventing the bolt from shooting forward. That's why when closing the action on an empty rifle, you need to hold the op rod back with the edge of your hand, let it ease forward, get your thumb out of the way, and let the bolt go home.

[@davidshaw809]

There are actual timing blocks that are made for this operation. CMP use to sell them.

[@norwich93CMP]

At $45-$55 this is more affordable and it also uses the enbloc to test other functions whereas the block do not as if under normal operation.

[@stevenrodriguez9655]

With correct timing, I’m told I can pretty much punch the clip down into the magazine with no worries of Garand thumb, so long as when I hear that first click of the enbloc seating, I maintain pressure. A well lubricated rifle should then send that bolt home, stripping a round off in the process, as soon as I relieve that pressure (and quickly remove my thumb from the mouth of the beast)

[@norwich93CMP]

You have the formula down pat!! Pew away!!

[@johyuujin3079]

so, assuming all the parts are in within good operating specifications, should timing ever be a problem if any one of these parts are changed with another part or parts?

[@norwich93CMP]

Theoretically no there shouldn't be a problem. But if your loading on the range and the bolt is released before the full enloc is seated that is an issue. An other issue is ejection of the enbloc before the last round is ejected.

[@johyuujin3079]

@@norwich93CMP thanks, that's what I assumed. once in awhile it will chamber the round when I insert a clip and release the op rod, but it could be the way I do it. most of the time I have to give the op rod a bump. 100's and 100's of rounds in several of my CMP Garands. Never had a clip go before last round.

[@1feral1]

Good explanation. I invested in a timing block, as I perform armorer's duties for WW2 reenactor units.

[@norwich93CMP]

Nice!!!! They always could use good technical help.

[@michaelmorris1567]

I know this is an older video but I can't get my enbloc clips to fully seat. There's no click when I insert them and the clip keeps poping up unless I manually move the bolt forward. I can get an empty clip to seat though. Any thoughts on what might be causing this?

[@norwich93CMP]

Sounds like there may be a couple of issues. Isolate the problem by replacing one part at a time and retrying to seat the enbloc. Start with a late bullet guide. Then a late oprod catch with rib on the accelerator. Then a different clip latch. Last would be to check length of oprod spring and follower rod. Let us know how you make out.

[@michaelmorris1567]

@norwich93CMP Thank you so much for the video and the response. I watched the video while disassembling the rifle and I found the culprit. The toggle on the oprod catch was broken. I ordered a new one, and it now works perfectly. Thanks again, and please, keep doing what you do.

[@86F350]

Amazing, thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@norwich93CMP]

Glad it was helpful!

[@dcstang67]

Im having an issue with binding as i push the enbloc down into the magazine. I noticed that the bolt releases before the enbloc is fully seated and clicked into place. What should i be looking for in the mechanism in order to fix this? Btw, this is an old CMP that i inherited that seems to have a Winchester reciever, Springfield bolt, Winchester trigger action, and the rest all looks like Springfield. The oprod spring looks perfect and everything is greased accordingly

[@norwich93CMP]

The relationship between the bullet guide and the clip latch is probably the most important parts effecting that issue. I suggest trying different (later) bullet guides first, try a few and see what result you get.

[@dcstang67]

@@norwich93CMP thank you. I did some research and found that the bullet guide accelerator cam was too tall. I was able to file it down to spec and now the clip seats just before the bolt releases. Thank you

[@ryanasmus8639]

Excellent video!! Thanks.

[@frankwrogg2515]

Great review, thanks

[@norwich93CMP]

You're welcome Sir.

[@roguefive512]

What does the Bullet Guide do?

[@norwich93CMP]

It times the the oprod catch and keeps the bullet heads back for assisting during feeding.

[@leehill3844]

I’m having problems with my CMP m1 garand. Every time the second round fails to strip from the enbloc clip. Every other round chambers and shoots fine. The failure only happens on the second round. Any ideas?

[@norwich93CMP]

Interesting. No I do not but if I was a better man it might be your bullet guide and oprod catch. Ensure they are the later types which have better timing.

[@leehill3844]

@@norwich93CMP I’m new to the m1 garand world so I’m not sure how to tell the difference. The first 8 rounds went smooth. But the next three clips it did the previously mentioned issue. I have traced the serial number to late may of 1944. If that’s of any help at all. Thank you for your previous response and I look forward to any more information that could help me out!

[@machinistmikethetinkerer4827]

Did you ever solve the problem?

[@markneumann1413]

My loaded clip is hard to seat, what should I look for to correct this

[@norwich93CMP]

Hard to say. Is the operating spring new? There is a lot of tension to insert it, definitely a heavier seating process than a magazine.

[@eddiebivens6570]

Roughly at the end you touched the follower and the bolt started to go. This is what happens with mine. How did you get it to stay? I am awaiting my timing block.

[@norwich93CMP]

No enbloc or with enbloc?

[@cavbusiness4]

Very good! Thanks.

[@RobertBeckk]

Got my cmp m1 yesterday

[@norwich93CMP]

Nice!

[@RobertBeckk]

@@norwich93CMP thanks so much for the uploads, love them.

[@norwich93CMP]

Thank you very much!

[@Hustler9g]

Isnt it supposed to not let the op rod forward if you maintain pressure on the clip when loading? Can you explain how that system works?

[@norwich93CMP]

The purpose of the video demonstrates acceptable timing. The idea is that the oprod does not go forward until the loaded clip is at the proper distance down into the receiver to strip the first round off and load the rifle as intended. During the load the prod will be kept back until that time. When the clip is seated down properly it moves the clip latch block to move the arm on the prod catch to release the prod forward loading the rifle.

[@tylerimp8004]

u in CT??

[@norwich93CMP]

Yes

[@tylerimp8004]

@@norwich93CMP figured. Down in new haven county. Just got my cmp garand. 43 springfield. New walnut stock

[@ifrarrow7039]

Nice video but the the sound was so low I couldn't hear it well enough to get any use out of it.

[@norwich93CMP]

Sorry about that but it must be your devise, mine is low but very audible.