"Not So Duty Proven" Enclosed Emitter Fiasco

In this Initial Thoughts Hatchet Cast episode Eric & Roy discuss the problems plaguing the enclosed emitter optics and share their experiences with these new up and coming "Duty Proven" optics. Best three ways to support us is to come train with us, pick up some gear from our website and from our affiliates using the links and codes below. Make sure you follow Barrel & Hatchet on our other social media platforms to stay up to date on what is happening in the Barrel & Hatchet community. Welcome to Barrel & Hatchet Trade Group.
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[@Hoplopfheil]

The closed emitter saga has been a wild ride so far

[@C0ochieMeat]

Have you run into any problems with closed emitters?

[@adamjones1641]

@@C0ochieMeat i doubt most people have even had problems with OPEN emitters

[@mattpence5655]

Well like always I am a day late and dollar short but I want to give a thumbs up for the weird leupold delta micro I’ve edc it on a 19x now for a year, probably only got bout 700rds though it, but I am a farm mechanic ,so you can only imagine the hell my edc gear is put through, it’s been dropped for more than 24” twice now once down concrete steps it’s odd to get used to the tiny little window but I found it helps cure some of my drawing mechanic that were pretty terrible now that little cap hanging off the back can be a pain but I ain’t seen one that has aluminum threads that ain’t a pita, oh and I zeroed the thing last year, when we got our rights back here in indianer and until last week I was a one carry gun fella, went from zero Glocks and no interest in a Glock to I have a 19x (op lunchbox dyed the grip purple)& a 20 g5 mos (the dark brick)that’s too bland have to work on the name 😂 have great day all by😎

[@jamesnewman5426]

Hi, as an engineer in aerospace, hermetic seals to keep water out are very difficult and don't tend to hold up long under "duty environment." So, I have been watching a lot of the battery life & other claims and wondering how realistic the testing & claims are. Plus how many G you get in a drop or banging into a door OR just from transferred impulse from rounds. There are a bunch of hermetic seals that last a long time but they are HEAVY and larger gasket materials but everything has some kind of MTTF (mean time to failure) and in the case of the hermeticity, it is low. Additionally everything leaks at some rate, some are just really low. We had to do stuff like fine & gross leak in special chambers after sealing in nitrogen purge environment via laser sealing. That is without the complication of glass on the module. Kind of expect you should figure on a 3-5 year life to site and possibly the pistols as well. Compromises on life to get performance.

[@WilliamDell95]

your experience and knowledge are appreciated by the community!@@jamesnewman5426

[@davidt9481]

I’ve got 3 acros, and I shoot at least once a week. Two of them has got heavy use, they look like something from an apocalypse game, but they work flawlessly even in the winter and snow. My 3rd acro haven’t seen that many rounds yet. I definitely trust them.

[@pjpearce1390]

I just put an acro on my pdp pro and I’m loving it so far. now I’m looking forward to trying the Trijicon RCR.

[@matthewchisnall1061]

same here have had P2 for 2yrs with 2k+ rounds on it now, I've flown with it and it still is running great.

[@Whitetail55]

Location? High humidity?

[@davidt9481]

Sweden, so yeah, terribly​@@Whitetail55

[@davidt9481]

Now the 3rd acro has seen a lot more rounds, and a winter being thrown in the snow and a little more abuse. Still no issues. I also got a 4th that hasn't seen as much abuse yet.

[@cpineo13]

Coming back to this video at the 1 year mark with my 509t mounted on my PDP. Around 6k rounds on it now, sub zero shooting, 90+ degrees, rainy and snowy and it’s holding up just fine. Hoping it stays that way

[@seaocean4868]

same i love the 509t i dont want it to die lol

[@Ramirez1of08]

Love the fact that you guys said you actually put some work in with the optics. Most people buy them , never use them and will argue with you to death that they are best just to justify their purchase

[@DoWork316]

Wow! I appreciate this info from a different “AO”. I am on the coast. I have P1 and P2 and use it for maritime and rural ops- real world. I have 20k plus rounds through both. I have had zero issues. My opinion is the humidity and temp change vs moisture from A/C to outside is a great QC for how the enclosed emitters are “enclosed”. Thanks for this info 🇺🇸🏴‍☠️👍🏻

[@SlimeSquare]

Thank you for continuing to bring feedback from the range to a wider audience. Some of the premium brands have gotten too accustomed to having smoke blown up their asses, when in reality they are one to two generations away from losing their pedigree to other companies.

[@Brapbatt-YO]

“Brands don’t have to own up to their mistakes because of brand loyalty…” *coughs in Sig Pistols* *coughs in SureFire*

[@jamfd3s788]

Wait what did surefire do I missed it ?

[@K-bob_45]

@@jamfd3s788apparently his broke. Don’t worry about Surefire. My poor X200 keeps wishing I would let it die

[@dev1360]

EOTech is #1 in this arena.

[@S1deshowRob]

@@jamfd3s788not sure, but they definitely overcharge for their pistol lights when streamlight offers the same quality product for half the cost

[@sodakhilljack7147]

I've had several fail not the super high end models cause I can't drop that kind of cheddar. But lots if dudes swear by these 300 dollar lights and they fail. To me a light as long as it is reputable is good I run olight and thrunight and they have never failed me. They are a 1/3 the price of the average surefire.

[@SnapD24]

And this is why I'm not an early adopter. I dont wanna pay to beta test someone's product.

[@kudzukid12]

Cough SIG cough… beta testing for years

[@EastCoastMan603]

r/sigsauer for the real COPE experience.

[@barrelandhatchet]

Boom exactly. And even when you have a seasoned company, you still need to do your own QC

[@goatismyname]

Yo, this could have been a 4 minute video.

[@drmom9900]

​@@goatismynamethis coulda been a 0 word comment

[@LRIZZY45]

G45 w/509T v2 (EDC). Over 4k rounds in last 6 months, all outdoors at ares training facility northeast of JTAC. Zero issues so far🤞🏼

[@winteronmymind3016]

Same setup lol

[@LRIZZY45]

@@assclapper2231 you’re probably right lol. I shoot in the rain all the time but that’s not the same as taking it for a swim or wading through water. I guess I gotta up my training haha

[@clintkees6158]

@@assclapper2231 to be fair these gents in the video are not talking about getting them wet or anything else just going from a/ced truck to outside or a/ced building to outside and doing range sessions and it is repeatedly failing. it makes me wary of the 509t because that is what i am looking at for my 1301 so i have both irons and a red dot option.

[@mikeobilinili1586]

My 508t loses zero or won't turn on after a defensive course in the rain

[@joquin4618]

For once, I don’t feel bad about having a 507 ACSS on my G19x 😅

[@lithium1770]

where to buy?

[@joquin4618]

@@lithium1770 optics planet

[@deangullberry5148]

​@@lithium1770primary Arms

[@Chonkasaurus]

The 507s are a heck of a dot. Love mine

[@Chonkasaurus]

​@@lithium1770optics planet, primary arms etc. Quick Google search holosun 507 ACSS should show you a few options

[@bigmike716]

I use and trust my life with my 508Ts. I've gone through many different red dots and broke a few as well. The ones that just keep going are always my 508Ts. That's what I have on my service pistol and that's what I have on my bedside pistol. I actually have 7 of them on various pistols and one on my rifle as a 45 degree offset. I have a bunch of the 507Cs as well but I've broken a couple of the glass lenses. The 508T just keeps going. I love them.

[@pittwm]

Love the 508T. My previous RM06 on daily carry was completely corroded from my sweat. Switch to titanium 508T and it holding up brilliantly

[@hardcore4476]

I’ve heard that from instructors that that’s the most rugged reliable red dot that they’ve witnessed over any other optic.

[@mikeobilinili1586]

My 508t loses zero or does not turn on after a defensive course in the rain

[@kj3956]

Sold me on it… I’ve been on the fence

[@LoverOfK9s]

you guys won me over with this. your honesty and boldness to share the truth got me to subscribe.

[@KrnKwon]

Thank you so much for y’all’s information. I ain’t gonna lie. I just purchased a Acro P2 right before watching this and it was a huge leap of faith I took from many different RMRs for my pistol. . . So Crossing my finger here

[@jaywill904]

Any updates? I'm looking to get the P2. 😅

[@KrnKwon]

@@jaywill904I wouldn't hesitate on recommending it to anyone. 3 of my buddies bought it after they had a blast with at range day.

[@vectorponder]

Also looking for an update

[@Cluster-orchestrator]

Appreciate all the quality and professional information you both provide. Keep it up!

[@dougr5379]

Nice video and relevant topic. I've been using a Holosun 509T now for about a year. I live in Houston and have done countless transitioning between A/C and triple digit temps during shooting sessions. So far so good with no problems due to internal fogging. However, total round count is only around 1,200 rounds. We'll see what the future holds.

[@DoWork316]

And to add, As with arctic warfare, when warming up, you never bring your blaster into a tent with heat or by the fire because the lense will take 60+ mins to acclimate=fog. I believe this is the same in reverse. As for lenses popping off, that may be a max temp issue. All in all , I hope manufacturers see this.

[@ktmdevon]

So you’re saying in “artic warfare” say like fighting in Ukraine in the snow. If you travel to outside in the snow and then have to go clear a building. You need to leave the weapon or optic outside and go clear with a knife or find a weapon in the building and just leave your weapon outside the building if it’s heated?? I’m sure that’s fine if you’re playing at a range in the winter lol we coyote hunt through the winter and even with night vision electronic optics and some guys running regular scopes and I carry a Xdm 10mm with a eps out in sub 0 temps then in a heated truck that 70-80 degrees and haven’t had any issues lmao

[@asphaltannihilator157]

@@ktmdevonYou’re trying so hard to be dumb and none of us know why

[@ikeyboy69]

Thanks for the honesty, now I have to rethink my choices

[@fl_protection]

I have a Steiner MPS. I use mine in a duty capacity. During training, I purposely put my tools through some serious abuse. No complaints on my end. I do trust my tools if my life depends on them. 🤙🏼🇺🇸

[@Gospeed777]

How's the battery life ? I'm hearing mixed reviews

[@fl_protection]

@@Gospeed777 this would be my only complaint is that the battery life sucks. My battery lasted me 4 months before I ended up changing it out. I than put a fresh battery, and it been around 7 months ish, it’s still working… But let’s see.

[@chrisb9478]

I’ve been running a 509T on a G45 on duty for over a year in rain, cold, heat. No issues. Just ordered a 507Comp for my Idpa G17. 👍🏻

[@markhansen9735]

I live in Washington state, been using an acro p2 for about a year now. I have around 3k rounds through it. Zero issues. The optic has seen planet of water, cold temps and warm temps. Still running strong.

[@brianjarrell9203]

I have a P2 with 4.5k rounds through it. It made it through winter in North Dakota with temps as low as -25°, and going from that temp to heated trucks and home with minor fogging that cleared up almost immediately and was usable the entire time. I’ve been in and out of vehicles from cold A/C to over 90° several times this summer. I’m not sure why you’re having issues.

[@MrSteveb1]

I have a 509T, a EPS carry & a new RCO, no issues

[@shawnbalch6046]

I wonder how the new Trijicon RCR will be in this situation.

[@Johndoe_55]

Great discussion. I appreciate the honesty and unbiased discussion of the video.

[@barrelandhatchet]

That is what we strive to do, and our loyalty is to the BHTG community

[@roncterry]

I have been running a Holosun 509T (OG model not X2) on my main competition pistol (double stack 1911) for a couple of years now. I have a few thousand rounds through that gun since the optic was attached. I shoot matches throughout the year (spring/summer/fall/winter). I am not seeing any moisture ingress so far. However, I live in Utah where it is a pretty dry climate and the gun lives in a Vaultek Lifepod when it is not being used. I switched to an enclose emitter because it seems like every where I shoot is very dusty, I’m talking the awesome desert moon dust, and I was tired of my optic constantly being full of dust. I’m very happy so far.

[@dawsonroberts462]

I am a cop and have been using a 509T for approx 2 years now. It is kept inside for half the day at 65-70 degrees and then taken outside during 90-100 degrees everyday. The first year I had about 2-3k rounds through the optic. The battery began to drain itself after 2-3 weeks after ever battery change. I had to send it back. Got a new one and probably have another 2-3k rounds through it and no issues. With that said I am switching my duty and off duty to a p-2. Time will tell if that is a good choice.

[@barrelandhatchet]

Dang, yeah that is def something that is common to something else we experienced

[@gunterstraus606]

The closed emitters are really new, with on-pistol optics being new in general. In previous eras, electronic optics on pistols were affixed to static mounts over the slide. Having something big mounted on the rear of the slide and subjecting it to the tilting barrel recoil is a lot of Gs for such a small item with electronics, especially sealed items.

[@fattigla]

Thank you for the update. Enclosed emitters are the future, but for now I'm using open emitters. It seems to me right now they are more like a consumable item like tires, I think right now, the better option is two holosun 507c's. For the price, have one to use and one for a spare while it is getting fixed.

[@woodrowcall3158]

I was told by many internet experts that my RMR was shit because it was an open emitter. During testing of the Holosun EPS for my agency, 4 out of 5 of our test optics failed submersion tests and had moisture intrusion inside the optic.

[@coltonowens2742]

Every single one of these closed emitter optics is getting their ass kicked by moisture. Every. Single. One. I just don't trust the design on a pistol.

[@brighthought11]

or I love the one, RMR is trash and Holosun is superior because every couple years you have to take an RMR off and replace a battery OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN FOR THE MOFO HILLS!

[@damienkinchen]

I haven't even used my holosun 509t, just stayed in a safe and still the center dot stopped working. Only the big circle works now. Lol

[@JustinPoole-wq8yx]

Great video guys, but I do have a short answer for one of your questions in the video.. YES, nitrogen purging in rifle optics is much more consistent while also being more durable to temperature/humidity changes… the same technology has been applied to high end vehicles for years. Nitrogen is a much more stable gas, and does not behave the same as oxygen. On a side note, I’d love to come shoot with you guys. Thank you for doing what you do. Much love ❤

[@barrelandhatchet]

Thanks so much for watching the video and that is some great information and thank you so much for that insight

[@BlackDotIndustries]

I’ve used the Holosun 509T on my duty and CCW G17 for 4 years and never had an issue with it. I can’t recommend it enough. Over 10k rounds and I will always love it

[@coffeeandlifting]

I've been watching this closed emitter hype and just thinking to myself that two pieces of glass doubles the failure risk.

[@brighthought11]

kinda like 2 hands, and 2 feet ☠

[@nionology]

​@@brighthought11you thought you said something there, didn't you?

[@brighthought11]

@@nionology made you reply, didint you?

[@DB.KOOPER]

I've had a 509T on my Gen IV Glock 20 since Holosun released it, I carry it daily (yes, I carry a full-sized 10mm Glock every day even in the summer), have over 7K rounds through the pistol with the optic on it and have never had one single issue with the optic. I have the same optic with less rounds on it on my Glock 40MOS that I carry in the backcountry/hunting and it's been flawless as well.

[@barrelandhatchet]

Glad to know you have had good luck with it.

[@southernexposure6855]

Have MPS, 509t’s and Kraken’s and haven’t had any issues with any of them. Put the 509’s and MPS through classes as well and no problems. Had all of them for 1yr or more. Probably just lucky but happy with all of them. Definitely looking forward to the Sig and Trijicon enclosed.

[@BlairHawthorne-x8p]

I’ve got about 2700 through the 509t on my 19x & probably 380” on a rifle with the 509t offset. Live in dusty west Texas, but shoot a decent bit in humid north & east Texas. Both have been fine, no moisture or dust. I’ve got maybe 1200 on a rifle with the MPS on top of my credo 2-10(thanks for recommending this thing, it’s nice so far). It been fine so far. Don’t like the lack of auto on. Was fine fine under nods. Did break a SRO on its very first drop on my Shadow 2 from about 2.5’ high.

[@BobWestgate-y2e]

I have Holosun EPS's on three different handguns, each with 1000 to 1500 rounds with no problem. And I am in the same area as you.

[@ahmadcampbell2626]

This is the Best argument for an RMR I've heard in a long time

[@Rb889]

RMR HD just came out. Basically an SRO with a top-loaded battery and the RMR's more rugged owl hood shape. Kinda puts the lens a bit close to the ejection port. Trijicon also finally released an enclosed optic, the RCR. Shouldn't have the same issues the P2 has, but you never know.

[@ahmadcampbell2626]

@@Rb889 I know Right

[@Osprey1994]

​@@Rb889Disgusting price tag.

[@Osprey1994]

Not really. Environment is everything, and there are examples of enclosed emitters taking insane abuse over long periods of time. This is just another data point, and a reminder that Florida is built different.

[@Rb889]

@@Osprey1994 Fair assessment. The home of Floridaman is not to be underestimated, 99% humidity for 3/4 of the year probably isn't good for anything that's trying to keep water out. Also, the two new RMR variants are just that, NEW. Price will be more reasonable here in about six months. Still, they're around ~$650 retail, Trijicon's MSRP has always been 'tarded.

[@jlew6890]

I’ve always purposely not purchased anything for at least two yrs after release. Engineers are a precious breed. It can look good on paper to hell and back but nothing “proves” out a product like everyday use.

[@Jay_Spesh_Stay_Fresh]

This. I have bought some new stuff and regretted it after realizing that it wasn’t up to par. A lot of brand trusting that I had before, with good reason, has bitten me in the ass. We’ll see now with trijicon’s new pistol dots, but I’m honestly looking into just keeping my rmr because that has yet to fail

[@nocoolname32]

yup, i feel the same way. as long as i don't hear any major issues in the next year, im probably gonna pull the trigger on one of those acog 4x scopes.

[@justinroberts1290]

I've also seen ACOGs fail with their seal. There isn't anything wrong with the concept of enclosed emitters, just the execution currently, which will only be improved upon over time. I was at a match where the rain and humidity was intense enough that EVERY open emitter became totally unusable. Both have liabilities and limits, open just seem to have more liabilities for now. I am every day carrying an EPS carry now and using it for monthly comps, will have to see how it does long term.

[@spindoggytheexplorer2915]

How’s that EPS Carry holding up 11 months later?

[@justinroberts1290]

@spindoggytheexplorer2915 Fantastic, me and a couple buddies with them have no complaints, and I personally carry every day and have done a half dozen or so pistol and multigun matches with it. The battery last longer that I would have thought for the smaller battery, about 6 months. Tempted by the new sig one tho...

[@cadebrown3069]

My theory Most of the smaller dots have a gasket or glue that is between the glass and its anchoring point. The violent recoil patterns of the slide will eventually wear down the glue or gasket enough that under recoil, the positive pressure can bleed momentarily at the backwards stopping point of the slide before the spring carries the slide in the opposite direction because the jolting momentum allows the gasket/glue to be overruled by the positive pressure

[@Snapper314]

I have a Sig P320 with over 3000 rounds through it that has seen daily use. The Holosun EPS Carry MRS (Green) mounted on it has had no problems, and this is in SoCal. I have a second one with about 2000 rounds that hasn't had any issues, but it is a backup. I plan on eventually trying the new Trijicon RCR since I've never had any issues with my RMRs.

[@247Combat]

Rcr is solid, i have been carrying it for 4 months now. I also live in socal. Its been carried daily on my stacatto cs, about 1,500 rounds so far. Its built like a little tank. I dont know what the difference in materials exactly are but when u hold the rcr it feels bomb proof premium and my holosuns eps and eps carry feel more toy like. The holosuns havent failed me yet but there is a difference in material with trijicon, and rcr gets brighter for sure. I did have an issue once with a holosun 507c

[@vincentboccardo1501]

Northeast Philly, 509T on a G19gen5. Little over a year of ownership and approx. 1500-2000 rounds. EDC and some classes. Indoors and outdoor shooting and classes. All good on my end👌

[@RLS_91]

GO BIRDS

[@ilukeberry]

I owned two ACRO P2s and both manifested dust inside rear lens after shooting... sold both of them.. and I'm back to Trijicon RMR :)

[@thomasgibbs3656]

I have both P1 and P2 both have had some sort of small lint particles inside which I think it got stuck inside during being put together at the factory my P2, a piece of small particle appeared after shooting on the front glass after examination determined it was just a piece of white fabric, but it wasn’t in a spot on the front glass to where it would bother me so I continue to shoot now it’s completely gone more than likely fell down and got wedged in between something so it doesn’t really concern me too much now my P one I have a piece of small strand of fabric stuck to the back glass that’s being pretty stubborn and not wanting to drop free but again, I just deal with it. It doesn’t really bother me too much.

[@dforce183]

I’ve got 5 holosun 509t’s, 3 x2’s and 2 x1’s, all have rounds on them, but my two mains are an early gen 1(2500ish rds on it) and an early gen 2, that’s been on pcc’s and pistols(2700ish rds). So far so good. I’m in nc and it’s humid as crap, no fogging at this time. One newer 509tx2 is my daily carry, maybe 600rds through it. Still good. Small sample size, but, pleased so far.

[@danielmattera4298]

Y'alls experience on the EPS on this video is why I got one of those instead of the other options available when I got it. I am in Ohio, its been shot on scorching days and 7 degree days. Its gone from a 70 degree house to a 7 degree day and immediately being used with no fogging or failures. Its been beat up, shiny in some spots, dinged up, dropped, zero failures. Really happy with it. Its probably around 1500 rounds on it, so admittedly not a lot, but I should be increasing that as I get some more time (Just had a kid, so range time dropped).

[@blunderbuss5509]

Real question; what's wrong with open emitters? How often do they actually fail? I've never had the mythical lint/dust/water drop obscure my open emitter, nor have I had any real condensation issues. Are closed emitters just a marketing scam to charge more to solve a problem that doesn't exist? RMRs have been on top of ACOGS for decades without failure issues, why the push for close emitters?

[@BrandensOutdoorChannel]

If enclosed emitters weren't that good, why are the majority of rifle optics enclosed? I currently have a 509T, two EPS optics and one EPS Carry in CA. I'm also in LE but have not switched to a dot for duty yet. The ACRO P2 was recently approved for duty but only 1 officer at my work has one and he's an instructor.

[@cgsearescue]

This was one of the main reasons I decided to go with the romeo x pro open and not the enclosed.

[@danshim2644]

This is why i stuck with my rmrs. ❤ just picked up 2 more rm06 for 250 each off the forum's

[@jacemill]

509t on my duty gun used in rain, personal training and swat training 2/3 years, thousands of rounds, MS humidity (very close to FL if not the same) got 2 of them and both holding up fine for me so far

[@quayshawndameron1349]

And what yall are saying is the very reason i keep back up irons. Ive been seeing this crazy thing of people doing iron sight deletes and it terrifies me. Tech fails sometimes and id prefer to be prepared rather draw and be shocked.

[@jamesbridges7750]

Slide mounted is a lot like an airgun or a SCAR- you're getting impact in both directions . Closed emitters have more critical parts to move.

[@r.l.marcelle8665]

I thought the ACRO P-2 underwent R&D testing on a SCAR itself- one of the hardest recoils IMHO.

[@dbut5427]

Not had 509T fail and own several, and My Romeo2 when through a competition in Hill Country Texas during a storm and did not get moisture sealed hood.

[@photognate88]

Hey guys I think I might have an idea as to why they fail. My thoughts are based on these three things. Chassis flex, gasket integrity, and interior coatings. The Enclosed Emitters are different from their big-boy rifle counterparts because the emitter rides on the slide. My feeling is this is causing the chassis to flex and lose gasket integrity. When the gasket is compromised dust and moisture get in because the nitrogen escapes and pulls dust in as it leaves. The dust now coats the inside of the glass and moisture loves dust. I had a similar issue with my broadcast lens. Vibrations in transport (even if in a padded case) can lead to gasket failure and once that happens the lens will be forever compromised.

[@roypalmer7844]

This is great info.

[@nnerrfman6326]

I firmly agree with your statement about gasket integrity. I had a Steiner mps completely fail on me and when Steiner replaced it they added a much larger gasket to the rear lens.

[@seanoneil277]

Not chassis flex. The issue is the violence of riding on the slide, the repeated shocks to the internals. The housing isn't going to flex significantly if engineered even half-arsed. The lens-to-housing fit may have tolerance issues under slide cycle violence, but that would be assuming the engineers didn't realize the optic was reciprocating violently on the slide. If none of these factors were properly considered already, most RDS on slides would fail quite early. I think you're correct that it has to do with being mounted to the slide, and the ensuing violent reciprocations that shock the internals.

[@rondobrondo]

@@seanoneil277 repeated shocks to the internals are causing it to allow moisture in? I think the other guy's explanation was a lot more reasonable

[@opmike343]

@@rondobrondo Obviously, the repeated shocks will exacerbate any sealing issues. The specific mechanics of what is happening is up for debate. We still don't know if some of these optics are shipping with marginal seals that would have opened up with temperature and moisture cycles regardless. My personal opinion is that most of the optics are about 2X more expensive than they should be considering the shitty QC and engineering that's behind them. However, the market will view a more expensive optic as being more premium. So, you simply increase the price of the optic, promise a lifetime warranty, and just crank out dots as fast as possible while handling warranty claims for the tiny percentage of shooters who actually spend time shooting.

[@jakeg2194]

I have a P2 on one of my rifles with about 500 rounds. Not a ton of rounds but I live in Michigan and its seen 10 degrees in the winter and 95 degrees 100% humidity in the summer. So far no issues but I need to put more rounds through it.

[@tylerpascarelli2336]

Had Acro P-2 for about a year now and have a few thousand rounds down range. Been solid

[@m.shaneparks2835]

Have you gentlemen ever tried a 508T? It’s not a closed emitter, it’s an open emitter-but it is Tuff as nails. Of course mine is a sample size of one, but it’s practically indestructible. I’m glad you guys are brutally honest about closed emitters. I’ve yet to get/try a closed emitter yet, as I’ve been happy with my 508T/VP9T combo. It’s like they’re made for each other. Anyway, I’m glad you guys are doing this, I guess I’ll wait a couple more years before I get a closed emitter. Keep up the good work! Cheers🍻

[@seaocean4868]

i carry the 509t x2 everyday and i live in an area where the climate goes from insane winters and hot summers and after almost 2 years ive had no issues yet *fingers crossed*

[@justinjung1631]

Had approx 3000 rounds with my P2. Started to notice smude/dirt/carbon. Wiped it down, still dirty. Found out it was inside the first layer of glass. Sent it back to aimpoint and had it back within 10 days. I’ll be running it hard this year in trainings so hopefully its good to go. But I am planning on getting an SRO as well. My RMR, although it gets “dirty” faster, a quick wipe between trainings and it’s good to go.

[@Gunny11795]

Only have 1 closed emitter, an original Holosun 509T Red dot, I have had it since a month after they dropped on my go to Glock 45 that I use for competition and carry. Realistically have 25k on the gun with that optic in MN/AZ during various seasons inside and outside. Mine hasn't failed or shown any signs of moisture however this is a single case. Ill be in Texas a lot more soon so ill be interested to see how it holds up to the generally higher levels of humidity there, but so far after thousands of reps and drawing from a Safariland holster, its holding up for me.

[@orientalornamental]

Been running a p1 for years now. Best pistol optic I've ever used. If only it had shakeawake, then i wouldn't complain about the battery life

[@seaocean4868]

i will only buy closed emitters because cleaning normal red dots us a huge pain in the ass and i can never get em 100 percent clean. enclosed ones you just wipe the back glass and youre done. you also get peace of mind.

[@86keen]

My ACRO P2 I bought in December 2022. It sits on my staccato P that is also my duty weapon. So far so good. Also know of a swat leader in the metro that had a P2 that is going back for moisture getting in. Has me nervous but I hope mine keeps ticking

[@cp2158]

I bought a Holosun EPS carry that failed on me on the 3rd month. One day i looked through it and it was off. I assumed it was the battery so I switched it but nothing. After a few days of trying to get it back on i sent it in to Holosun. They fixed whatever was wrong with it but didn’t tell me what the problem was. Turnaround time was quick as well, took about a week and Its been working great since. I really like the EPS line but that experience left me a little uncomfortable to say the least.

[@Marine778917]

This winter we had a stretch of time that was -30 degrees real temperature , but -60 degrees windchill. I bundled up and took my duty rifle and pistol to the range. I let them both sit in the elements for about 20 minutes before I got out and shot them for about 15 minutes each. I have a 509 ACSS on a 2011 and an Elcan on a 13.7". The 509 got notably dim, even on a fresh battery, but was still useable. The Elcan had no issues at all. I'd say I have 6-7K rounds through my Staccato with the 509 ACSS and I have had no problems with the optic. It has been crushed against the cement while Blackhawk T Series holster during a few fights and suffered no damage.

[@A_Marine_and_his_rifle]

There's not a scope I have that don't don't fog up when going from the ac to the Texas summer heat and humidity that didn't fog up, this includes my acog, accupoints, leatherwood. So, idk about everyone else, but the fog proof claim they make is total bs.

[@TorresTactical]

Currently have a 509T on my G17 and have shot about 1000rounds with it mounted and have had it for about 2 years. Located in Southern California and have not had any issues with it. No condensation, no glass breaks.

[@ericshindler5829]

Thanks for your honesty and saving the public from spending on necessary money on false promises. Have you had any problems with the aimpoint pro. I think I’ll just stick with my holosun 510 C thank you.

[@gdfgjjkjgdvhhhbnk6379]

I use a 508T and has around 3k rounds in different conditions. Works very well, and i tryst it to do its job.

[@johnbrooks6003]

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: I have a acro p2 on a Glock 17 and have put around 10k round on it. I live in West Virginia where we see all 4 seasons and typically in there extremes. I carry g17/acro p2 combo daily as a hvac tech and a cow farmers. I am typically in the worst of weathers and have had no issues with any moisture or dot failure and I’ve had this setup going on about 2 years now. I’ve have also been fully submerged in about 5 feet of water with g17/acro p2 and have still seen no failures or signs of moister. Now salt water and salty air do have quite the difference on things from fresh water but I truly think it might just be a quality control issue with manufacturing because it’s pretty hard to build them bomb proof 100% of the time there’s gonna be mess ups

[@awokeone7997]

I have 2 509t's V1 and so far so good with one of them I've had for 4 yrs and the other for about 3 yrs. Was looking for a EPS MRS for my 2011 but decided to go with the 507 Comp. Love the size of the glass, how clear it is and the dot reticle is very crisp.

[@ethanpierce8567]

Have we’ll over 1000 rounds on my 509t. Work in and outside, carry almost 100% of the time. Crawling under houses, working in Attics, sweating to where my gun / optic is pretty gross. Have broken 3 or 4 trex sidecar holsters just from wearing and working in them (their warranty is great). 509t has been 100%

[@GreymanEDC]

I have an EPS on an Echelon with about 5000 rounds through it, an EPS Carry on a G19 mos with over 10k rounds though it, both optics have held up incredibly well. I live in Wisconsin and do a lot of winter and cold weather training, and have gone from sun zero temps, into a warm house or vehicle, and haven't experienced any moisture issues with either. Both have had their share of abuse and being dropped and exposed to water Ice and snow. Before the EPS I had a C+H precision Duty which is their closed emitter option, failed in under 1000, emitter diode fail, currently being rma'd by C+H

[@PBALLERAZ]

I have 2 Acros, one lives on a Glock 40 with about 500rds of 10mm on it, so far it's fine. The second is on a P10C currently with 400rds on the P10C, it was previously on an ak with 200rds, and on a Glock 34 before that with probably another 200rds. That one is still doing fine as well. Both optics are relatively young. I like them but we'll see after another 4 months of regular 200-300rds per weekend.

[@ericshindler5829]

I have shot with the 510 C completely outdoors all four seasons in Pennsylvania I have had no problems

[@Rebel_Spirit_Operations]

So Holosun eps 2moa fot only on a Shadow Systems. Total time 3 months. State: Missouri Avg temps: high 90s with 80%+ humidity Inside building temp 69° I use a safarland 6354do go in and out of building 1-2 hundred times a day. Work shift is 14 hours 7 days a week for past month 5 days a week 2 months prior Has been rained on, mud has gotten on the face of the first glass, tossed while in holster attached to belt lots. Shot 200 rounds each week until i started 7 days a week work. Overall solid no issues. I do have 2 507c. 1 is first gen 1 is x2 0 issues with 1st gen, had glass fall out of x2

[@trevorj.8401]

I dont have an enclosed emiter optic yet, but I do have a 507c thats been on 2 guns, a fnx45tac and a s&w 10mm with a total round count of aroud 5,000 between the two so far, no issues yet!

[@2amichaelj]

Florida humidity is no joke. Polk county resident here. The Steiner MPS I've used as an offset rds for about 7 months, 4,500 rounds of 556 in 12 range trips.

[@Fin.mint.]

This is why i like the romeo 2. If it gets moisture in it, i just remove the lid and gasket. Now its open emitter. Clean and reseal at a later time.

[@barrelandhatchet]

Will def have to check that dot out

[@rl2862]

Plenty of 509T being used by police departments as a duty optic today. The reality is, all of these companies produce duds. Whether it’s Trijicon, Aimpoint or Holosun. We used to pay a premium price for peace of mind, but it doesn’t exist anymore. We must vet each optic we deploy for use! It’s our responsibility!

[@rl2862]

Yep, you guys came to the same conclusion as me. Couldn’t agree more. We have to test each product we put on our tools!

[@boxerdad214]

Good thing the hard use companies stand by their products. Things break trijicon and aim point are rock solid. Stuff breaks and it suck when they do. Good 👍🏻 stuff

[@RoninWarrior1776]

My 509T, EPS, and Acro P-1 have done me great on and off duty. I still love my open emitter optics too. No issues with any.

[@armorers_wrench]

Are you Mojo's friend irl?

[@RoninWarrior1776]

@@armorers_wrench 😂 nahhhh I’m real cop in a violent & active city

[@strongdrew1957]

Had a Holosun eps when it first came out, it failed within the first 50 rounds. Just stopped working. Holosun sent me a new optic and i ended up selling it and the gun it was on.

[@rimfirecommando]

I've had a Holosun 509t for a year and a half. 4k rounds. For the first year I carried probably 15-20 hours per week. The last 6 months I've carried all day everyday. I haven't had any issues, so far it's been awesome. I am in a very dry state so I haven't had any issues with moisture, but it keeps the dust out. All that said, I don't think 99% of people, including me, need an enclosed emitter.

[@Wes13188]

Have about 15k rounds on the Acro with no problems. I got it when they were hard to find. Heard recently they’ve been having QC problems.

[@seaocean4868]

Great video i appreciate the insight and this is a very important video as it will give these companies an opportunity to improve their products. Im sure after these situations (as long as you told them) they will work hard to improve and prove themselves reliable.

[@thelastsignature]

Competition shooter here I’ve put thousands of rounds through my aimpoint acro and I’ve got dust or dirt or who knows what inside the housing….. noticed it at about 2-3k rounds and have since noticed it worse at around 7-10k rounds. Here in Oregon it’s dry all the time even when it rains there is no humidity. I assume as a Floridian myself I would have the same issues you had with fog. Tons of clips with me competing one showing the debris I think it’s titled is aimpoint acro competitive. Thank you for this video I’ve been thinking this since purchase and honestly have no problem with open emitters after my Experience.

[@Hank_Alemany]

Y’all are awesome! Love your classes! I would really love more testing and recommendations, I need a new duty optic and was about to get an Acro now I don’t know what to do so pleassse more closed emitter content and testing!

[@barrelandhatchet]

Thanks for the love Hermie and we hope to see you in class again soon merry Christmas and God bless you

[@barrelandhatchet]

Homie*

[@Jesco2841]

Still running a DPP on a range gun, and running irons on my carry guns until there's been a proven closed emitter optic without any issues. Thanks for the update on what's going on out there.

[@funtimef.6386]

Everyday carry a 509t x2 in bone dry arizona for over a year now with 3000 rounds under its belt. No issues so far. Usually carried in 100°+ weather but also taken multiple trips to snow and 7000 ft in elevation.

[@247Combat]

@barrel&hatchet i agree but the RCR has been solid so far!

[@thomasgibbs3656]

I do believe aimpoint made a statement that the reason why they are having issues with a lot of the P2’s is because they used to install the glass with the glue adhesive by hand, but around the time that demand was so high for the P2 they switched to a machine to do that step … but the good thing about aimpoint is that they stand behind their product and they are very prompt on getting you squared away as fast as possible

[@davehimes6415]

I'm glad yunz brought this up and not me! I thought maybe it was temp/climate/weather caused. I've had a few crap out in that methods. But i eliminated it on my regular use, but still have 1 mounted on another. To be honest i dont know why either and after the group of know it alls talking crap on me and basically belittling me..i caught on, i just quit talking to anyone about it period. We're all to be together and not to trash each other. But there's to many out here that would prefer to argue and try making you look like a complete idiot. Hopefully someone finds out and posts it and lets me know..mines been top name..some high top name..and now I've said frig it and run the low but kinda shorta good brand. 👍

[@JNOSNOW]

I have about 1500 rds through my main EPS carry on my P365XL every. I carry it on my hip from 5am to 6-10 pm or later every single day and no problems. I have it on my hip dirt biking, hunting, and daily operating heavy equipment in central washington desert. No problems so far. Maybe 400 rounds on the second one on the spare p365

[@JNOSNOW]

About 500 rounds further on the same EPS Carry carried on my sweaty ass everyday and rolling around on it working on vehicles, still a fan

[@HHenry-tt1of]

I have a 509t on top of an ACOG on my GP 14.5 Geissele upper/ADM lower for almost 1.5 years. I shoot in WI and MN and haven't had an issue especially in 10 and 20 degree weather up to about 95. It's been fantastic and really opened me up to Holosun. I have an RMR on my pistol but just haven't gone to a 509t because of the issues you guys have reported

[@tyler9881]

How many rounds have you put on the rifle with that set up?

[@alexm5656]

Great, I just put an Acro on work gun. The thing is that this is the second generation of the Acro. The issues should of been worked out, especially from a company like aimpoint.

[@JEJAK5396]

My P-2 had the front lens break on me after a few months. Mounted to a G.45, and had taken a couple spills with it but nothing major. Optic still worked, sent it back to the Swedish Fish Company and they fixed it and sent it back.

[@TonyBologna240]

I have an offset RMR on the main AR I shoot. It’s had about 5500 rounds through it at this point. I live in the PNW, and did notice that early fall/late spring, when we have warmer rain storms, it would fog up pretty quick. I put some anti-fog spray on it and reapply about once a year, which has completely solved the problem. I train a lot with it. I’ve beaten the crap out of it and even with muddy clay, dusty summers, and endless rain, it’s never been more than just a wipe away (on the emitter, because you can still shoot two eyes open just fine if just the front of the glass gets muddy) from working.

[@guy_edc8099]

Ran a 509t for over a year now. I live in PA where the weather varies. I have two that each have several thousand rounds through them with no issues.