Not Terrible - The £350 Carbon Wheels from +VEL

[@adrian21090]

Your straight talking unbiased review is really appreciated - even if the conclusion that you get what you pay for is no suprise. I have Reynolds AR 58/62s. They are not that expensive but they make a huge difference to ride speeds on flattish routes. They enable me to keep up with the fast boys on club rides. They are also not too bad on the hills. When I have my ally Fulcrums fitted, I get dropped pretty quickly.

[@Mapdec]

Big difference

[@agoogleuser7112]

Helpful and interesting view on Vel, I have used their gravel wheels for two years - no issues

[@pejakesic]

Had them for a year and they performed very well. No loose spokes, absolutely no issues. Yes,freehub needed grease same as my zipp hub.

[@SayMcGillicuddy]

buy nice or buy twice... don't race what you can't replace...etc etc. I picked these up on a Black Friday deal, knowing they'd do on a budget build. Thanks a million for your honest and detailed review

[@Buzzwindrip]

I’m glad that this video popped up randomly when I checked my YT notifications. I don’t have this wheel set, but I do have a set of cheap carbon wheels that came in a Superteam box, sold as an Amazon return. I’m inspired now to pull the freehub off and check to see if there is any grease on the pawls. And take a closer look at those nipple holes. Thanks for the review!

[@Mapdec]

👍

[@DavidWilson-tv5sr]

It's great to have a review explaining about details of wheelsets ,so informative about the differences in the quality,just thanking you for educating me,my purchases will be more selective.

[@Mapdec]

Thank you David.

[@JamesSocialCycling]

Just purchased my first set of Carbon wheels, though labelled new and unused and purchased from a reputable Cycle store, I’m still a little nervous. They’re about 6yrs old but have always wanted a set of Mavic Cosmics, they look awesome, think 40/45 deep. Just waiting for the weather to change to take the new bike out. Thanks for the video, always good to see your take on products. We learn so much😊👍

[@sabamacx]

"you have to do the final tension with the tyre on" --- but my internal nipples!

[@Mapdec]

Oh. 😂

[@MrDazP1adv3ntures]

Very interesting and informative video, If it's just based on aesthetics and price I'd say they were well worth a try but I think your review highlights the fact that they are by no means the finished article, especially if you like to ride a lot in all weathers. A big part of the decision making process these days regarding disc wheelsets is surrounding their longevity because the braking surface wear on the rim is negated. I like the idea of a wheel that can take a battering in poor riding conditions or on dark winter nights for example - such as the Hope 20Fives. ( not an ideal comparison but from a practical perspective ) It does look like the manufacturers have tried to cover all angles to keep them at this price though. If they were mine I would be asking you to price up a nipple upgrade before the fun begins. Great review and an excellent cycling workshop channel.👍Cheers Mapdec.

[@neildmoss]

I picked up a set of 6085 RSL last year for a steal - DTSwiss240 hubs and sapim cx ray spokes. Will keep an eye out for signs of strain and loosening spokes now - thanks.

[@airbraker]

I ride on a budget and VEL gave me the opportunity to buy a set of carbon wheels . I cant justify £1000 minumum on a set of wheels and was set to ride on the alloy wheels that came with the bike for the rest of its life. I felt far more comfortable buying them from Sigma sports than I did getting an unbranded set from China. I think they should be applauded for opening up this opportunity to what I believe is a large proportion of cyclists. I paid £339 for a set of VEL50's B a r g a i n !

[@Mapdec]

They are. You can’t get anything as fast for that money.

[@Hyett296]

Very informative and similar to my thoughts on this wheel set. My only comment would be on the 50 RL wheels they actually come with brass nipples not aluminium it was one of the things I did check before I bought them. Thankfully, I cannot see the stress around the spoke nipples on my set, yet.

[@Mapdec]

Interesting. Thanks Wes.

[@dogukantosun5547]

Can you review a high-end aluminium wheel like Fulcrum racing zero? Everyone is talking about carbon wheels but not the alternatives...

[@Ih8GoogleandApple]

Been using fulcrum zeros for 10 + yrs and never had a wheel come out of true despite being 85 -90 kilo rider. They are bulletproof unless you crash heavily or hit a pothole above 50 - 60 kph

[@gokaygs]

Fantastic wheelset Kardeşim. I’ve been using shamal ultras for 3 years (same with fulcrum zero but branded as campagnolo) and they are amazing for climbing and descending, perfect wheelset for any ride averaging less than 32kph average speed. Mapdec said they might be iffy and flext on a previous video but that is far from the actual case IMO. I rode about 20,000kms on my shamals.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

They're durable wheels but really still too narrow internally. Blown away that they're not even 19mm in 2023. There are plenty of cheap carbon wheels I'd rather have than that

[@Mapdec]

The whole Fulcrm Racing range is pretty establish to be good. A solid choice for an alu wheel. Pick your price point and enjoy.

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. That is a bit mad they they are still 19mm. My fave alu wheel right now is the Pacenti Forza.

[@joelglenny748]

Thanks for this video. So good and learn so much when it's all new to you.

[@Mapdec]

Quite a detailed vid for a newbie. Well done.

[@dtaylor4319]

I've been riding a set of the alloy 30 RL wheels for 2 years/8000 miles now on my gravel bike (Ribble CGR Ti) and so far had no trouble at all with them. I did discover that the rear hub is actually a rebranded Nukeproof Horizon V2 but without the bite guard, I think the same hub is used on all the RL versions, alloy and carbon. I've since fitted a Horizon V2 as the old hub got chewed up by the cassette rings and the bite guard on the new hub seems to be doing it's job, just hope it stays that way! I did consider getting the carbon version of these wheels but they were over twice the price and couldn't see any real advantage, from memory even the weights were the same at about a claimed 1600 grams.

[@Mapdec]

The advantage of carbon is usually wider and deeper for the same weight as alu.

[@cadenjay10]

Great review, I had a set of the RL 38/50 until a recent crash a velo park! Just [urchased the RSL version, do you have any views on them? They have better hubs and spokes etc.

[@Caleketa]

Great video on these wheels Paul. Love it and spot on! As a tall and heavyer rider ( 93kg )i enjoy handspoked wheels from a wheelbuilder. They put some great effort on building them. Just like when you are building a bike and correcting a bottom bracket. We most of the time get what we pay for, on to a certain level ofcourse. I’ve had since i’ve been cycling always problems with wheels. Most of the time they where cracked where the nipples came out or lose spokes. The only wheelset i’ve had no troubles with where the Campagnolo Khamsin rimbrake wheelset with a combination of 24/27 spokes. Maybe its an idea for you to start building wheels that are by your’e standards! Cheers

[@Mapdec]

We build wheels all the time, and suspension service. Just run of the mill stuff. It is hard to compete with the crash replacement warranties out there of really top wheels like the FFWD.

[@Caleketa]

@@Mapdec Hi Paul, my bad, did not knew that you also build wheels.😏

[@terrywalker7127]

Another excellent video. Always learn from you.

[@Mapdec]

Thanks again!

[@sumsaudi]

Your channel is sooo informative. I'd love to see you make a video on Onyx Hubs, and your experiences with them. There's soo much debate about it's weight and reliability especially with the vespers. What's your experience with them, servicing them in the shop or I dunno.

[@Mapdec]

Very little to be honest. I have built with them, but I have never had a reason to take them apart yet.

[@OsamaKhan-mh3ri]

I bought these exact wheels on the Black Friday deals as my first carbon wheelset. I paid £400 but was annoyed as the next day they were down to £350. However they went back up again the next day. Very informative review. I will be greasing those hubs and try not to ever ride them in the wet. I have found them to be good so far. Mostly the look of the bike has improved and makes me want to ride it more. 😂. Also the hub noise is great. Yes I know you don’t like loud hubs. Thanks for all your videos.

[@michaelb9664]

Once you add some grease to the hub that noise will quieten down. I was thankful for that TBH.

[@OsamaKhan-mh3ri]

@@michaelb9664 I don’t want the hub to be quieter. Hub destruction it is!!! 🤣

[@Mapdec]

It’s like the cycling equivalent of a big bore exhaust on a teenagers car.

[@OsamaKhan-mh3ri]

@@Mapdec 😂😂😂

[@IronHorsey3]

@@Mapdec - Louder hubs have great value in urban and heavily trafficked pedestrian areas. People were literally always walking in front without even looking. Upgraded some old Mavic Elites with third party pawls for a louder hub noise. It makes a big "safety" difference. Pedestrians can be more dangerous than vehicles.

[@steve050867]

Belive it or not. I bought a set at Christmas and today was there first spin out. Way faster than the Fulcrum 4 s that came off and lighter. Very pleased with them.

[@Mapdec]

I bet they are!

[@MarekMottl]

Was wondering why is your bike in pieces in the background, then noticed it still has the mech hanger and the steerer tube uncut lol. I'm gonna go and pick up mine fully build today, can't wait! Thanks a lot for your reviews!

[@Mapdec]

That’s getting built for a customer very soon

[@MarekMottl]

@@Mapdec Oh cool! I thought it's just a pre-recorded video

[@gaza4543]

I got a very good deal on some roval alpinist clx gen 1 non tubeless version ( who needs tubeless 😉) got them for 1k but had to spend 50quid for the xdr freehub. I feel the price to durability scale is very high with these. Showing many of the traits of the fast forward build nicely drilled holes and so on. Though don’t have the brass nipples but very good dt Swiss prolocks. Keep them clean in the winter rinse the salt off straight away after each ride and they’ll be fine for many years in my experience with other wheels. Most importantly they have dt exp internals and use standard well greased bearings. All in all I’m very very happy with my purchase. Great insightful vid to what to look out for with “lesser” wheels.

[@Mapdec]

Thank you

[@simonmarkwinter]

Great video, out of interest how did you remove the freehub? I think I want to check mine and add grease as you have suggested

[@michaelb9664]

Interesting video. Better than the generic subjective paid for by the sponsor ‘reviews’. I’m surprised by the alloy nipples here as my VEL 38 RL wheels have brass ones and that was a feature I was adamant I wanted as I hate alloy nipples. Maybe they changed nipples at some point? I have to say I use mine as gravel wheels even though they aren’t marketed as such the spoke tension and wheel trueness has been absolutely spot on. No signs of stress around the nipples on the rim. The one complaint I have/had about my set was the rear hub. The freehub was completely dry with no grease at all and the pawls clicked heavily under load. Even after some home maintenance adding grease they still clicked under load and terribly so. Sigma fitted a new freehub under warranty and applied grease as required. The freehub is much improved now, but can still occasionally click now and again as the pawls engage especially when climbing but it’s liveable with for now. Sigmas customer support was a bit of an experience they tried telling me that washing the bike had removed the factory grease which was utter bollocks TBH. There was no grease to begin with. Anyway I wouldn’t buy them again, unless I could stretch to the DT Swiss hub option.

[@Mapdec]

Good input. Thank you.

[@GuybrushThreepwood79]

Great video. Excellent explanation of the potential problems and pitfalls at this kind of price range. My question is, what are the other options at this kind of price point (~£500?) I'm not a competitive cyclist so I'm not prepared to pay more than a bike for a set of wheels (my new gravel bike was £1200!) But I would still like to feel some benefit of lighter, faster wheels.

[@Mapdec]

These are best for faster, Ok for lighter, bad for durability. If you want durable, there are good solid options like the Fulcrum, Shimano wheelsets, etc.. However, they wont be fast, or light.

[@PanaehaliTut]

I really like wheels from a Chinese company named btlos. I currently own 3 sets and never had any problems. Price is above average for a Chinese brands, but nowhere near what A- brands would charge you.

[@Speedy.V]

I also have a set of BTLOS. I use them for XC mtb. DTswiss hubs, CX rays spokes, alu nipples, standard weight for the 30 internal rims. Total weight is 1450g with tape and valves all for 800. The best thing to do is actually learn how to build a wheel and build it up. im doing that now with some goldix hubs I picked up on Ali. Hopefully they come out ok.

[@geoffwalmsley3066]

Having watched this,i stripped my vels down,as per the video, couldn't see any grease in the freehub, also checked the wheel bearings,had some solid looking grease,cleaned out and put some proper bearing grease in,seem to run a lot smoother.

[@Mapdec]

Awesome. Glad the vid helped.

[@Gledii]

your reviews are one of the Best, thanks for sharing. look, carbon fibers are know for its strength. What im seeing in a lot of reviews, its the fragility of carbon wheels and frames to localized stress. would you see in this example (nipples holes), something happeing with aluminium wheels? what i dont like is the idea of being extremelly carefull when tightening carbon fiber based parts. in the end we all paid a much higher amount of money for its durability and weight...in the end im having the impression that is more the weight :). cheers

[@2wheelsbest]

Very good review. I have a pair of the VEL carbon gravel wheels. The first pair arrived with noticeable unevenness if you ran your hand along the sidewall. The second pair were good but now I look the nipples are also not very straight. I don't ride my gravel bike much so I suspect as long as I keep an eye on them I might get a few years out of them. They look decent. On the point of aerodynamics, I'm not sure why I felt I needed deep section when running 43c tyres! I have some Hunt alloy deep rims and they are pretty average in any sidewind. My LUN Hypers are.much better for the same depth.

[@Mapdec]

Thank you.

[@rogermorrison4092]

So I bought a Giant Propel Advanced 2 and also bought a set of Vel+ (6580 RL - so no DT Swiss Hub) for it, about 10 months ago now. I only did 1 ride on the PA-2 wheelset that the bike came with as initially I was having trouble with one of the tyres on the front wheel (kept on puncturing, it was a tyre which was about 2 years old with an inner tube - so not attributed to the Vels). I have to say when I use the Vels on downhills and 0% gradient they're okay, not brilliant but not terrible and then when the gradient increases upward you all of a sudden feel like you're working against the wheels as well as climb, and I've had occasions when they've refused to pick up speeds that other wheelsets I've used have achieved (the wheels are secured and tightened to the recommended torque setting of 11nm) - the one time I used the stock wheels on reflection has probably been the most enjoyable ride I've had on the bike, and they're using heavy Gravia AC tyres (on the Vel I've got Schwalbe Pro One's running tubeless now). My experience hasn't been great with them and am going to spaff a fortune on a DT Swiss ARC 1100 wheelset for next year ;) I think I'll notice the difference!

[@Mapdec]

Oh. You went very deep section.

[@chefsmac6910]

As always, great information and good real world advice. Seeing the Look makes me want to chime in; my stock Shimano di2 105 Optimum is riding great. I’m riding a small and I feel like the slacker head tube helps balance the shorter wheel balance on the small size. How is your 765 feeling?

[@Mapdec]

Love it. It is exactly what I was looking for. Slacker head angles for rough, windy, steep roads is awesome.

[@MAEBikr]

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD - Over the years I have arrived at the following opinion. I will buy any rim BUT always go with DT Swiss 350 or 240 star ratchet regular/exp hubs or the internals. Being in Canada, riding road, downcountry, enduro and gravel and other family members that ride - I have many bikes and many wheels. Others, may look for the best deal on wheels etc... but as you have pointed out - parts is an issue. You can always get parts for DT Swiss products and 100 cdn gets you the tool you need to take them apart for bearing swaps. Switching wheels and freehubs is no biggie. The one thing I cannot stand is having an otherwise perfectly fine wheel hanging because a part cannot be sourced. You cannot bring yourself to toss as everything else works. I have never destroyed a star ratchet freehub -cannot say the same for the pawl type freehubs.

[@markb8163]

Vel do versions with DT Swiss 240s and brass nipples. Mapdec have reviewed the cheapest versions.

[@julianduquemin7701]

Have you done a review of the Vel 35 GRSL2 carbon gravel wheels Paul? I'm debating either the Vel wheels or the Hunt 40mm Gravel race wheels for my next purchase and haven't seen any reviews for them yet.. thanks 🙂

[@Mapdec]

No. I have some videos that should give you an idea of what to expect though. The cost and weight is tempting, just be fully aware of what you’re getting.

[@stormeporm]

Thanks again for the info! I was wondering what causes the tension to change with a tire and why are carbon rims affected more. I can imagine that carbon wheels are more susceptible to compression in comparison to aluminum rims. But is it just the tension of the bead or is it also related to the pressure. And if so is it also necessary for mtb carbon rims?

[@Mapdec]

It’s related to pressure. You need to inflate to working psi then retension and true. MTB rims are the same.

[@stevegeek]

Great review. I have these wheels since the start of the year and no issues so far. I am thinking of adding some grease to the free hub, to help protect the parts and dial down the buzz. I notice you used a tool to remove the end cap…what was this and do I need a special tool? Cheers!

[@Mapdec]

It’s called a hub genie. Useful for when the end caps get stuck.

[@stevegeek]

@@Mapdec Ah, OK. Thanks. 👍

[@aljaliah6868]

Your attention to detail (putting the tyre on) is second to none !!! You must have got German DNA

[@Mapdec]

Thank you. I take it you have stumbled across the bar tape vid yet 😂

[@aljaliah6868]

@@Mapdec No, but will be searching for it now that you’ve mentioned it ! Never thought bar tape could have so much to talk about but from you’re text I am guessing I am wrong 😂

[@OsamaKhan-mh3ri]

1 month of use and a creek developed in the back wheel which was found after a lot of pain riding with a noisy bike on holiday. Returned to sigma. They made me take off the cassette brake discs before sending. Cost me £25 to first diagnose the problem. And then further driving to friends house to take off the discs and cassette to return the wheels whilst balancing work. Sigma didn’t refund me the £25. They also cause me a lot of trouble running back n forth. Issue fixed now. Still to do a proper test ride on them.

[@tomaskupstys7965]

And the issue was?

[@OsamaKhan-mh3ri]

@@tomaskupstys7965 Sorry for the late reply. The issue was the hub they Said. They didn’t go into specifics. Just replaced it.

[@OsamaKhan-mh3ri]

Done a proper test ride and no more creek. Hope it stays this way.

[@geoleo2597]

It’s always best to remove the discs. If you leave them on they might get bent in shipping and they will have to remove them anyway to rebuild the wheel

[@gonewiththewheels8424]

Your videos are very informative. I find your videos absolutely spot on and full of useful resources. Thank you for sharing it!! On a different note, would you recommend making the final adjustment in the spoke tension with a tyre on, on the aluminium rim as well, or is it just pointless? Also, when building a wheel for touring, 36h, on a good quality alloy rim, would it be worth using a washer to increase the rim's longevity? Thank you !! Sergio

[@Mapdec]

It’s always worth checking, but it is much less of a problem on alu rims

[@arturazevedo2741]

Hello! Thank’s for the video. I’m between the Vel 50 rsl2 (with DT swiss 240 exp hubs) and the Zipp 303s, you review them both. I can get them for the same price in Europe, what’s your opinion? I know that Zipp rims are very good quality and Light but the hubs have some issues…

[@Mapdec]

Neither would get a recommendation. I would keep looking.

[@freakeystyley34]

Great review, and so clear you know your stuff! I'm looking for a pair of (probably) alloy disc rims to use on my gravel bike as a 'road' setup with slick tyres - probably 28mm. Do you have any recommendations or brands to look out for? Keen for reasonably lightweight (

[@Mapdec]

For alu check the Pacenti Forza or i25

[@freakeystyley34]

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any thoughts on the DT Swiss ER 1600 Spline? I need something

[@bromasi]

Consumers are lucky the that they have a bicycle mechanic with your skills,right on brother

[@Mapdec]

Thank you.

[@TheLazyGarden3r]

They currently have the more expensive Vel RSL2 which have DTswiss 240 hubs and Sapim CX ray spokes for £720. Obviously about double the price of these ones you reviewed. A little worried about the rim quality after watching this video. What are your thoughts on them? I guess the rims are the same.

[@Mapdec]

Tough one. There is very little competition at that price. If you can stretch a little you might see some Reynolds AR 41 X still on sale. I talked about these in todays video.

[@Jedsonmcfarly]

Very technical and in depth review.....BUT....and maybe I missed it.....where was the free, hub sound check???? 😂

[@Mapdec]

Never gonna happen on this channel.

[@sabamacx]

@@Mapdec Praise be.

[@utube7930]

Yaya wheel go buzzzzzz

[@iffy_too4289]

That freehub looks pretty similar to a Spank Hex

Thanks for the informative video

[@dominicbritt]

I've never heard of any wheel builder tensioning with a tyre on. I always assumed that what the tyre does to the rim is out of the manufacturers control, specific to the tyre and pressure?

[@richardgate1571]

I kind of agree here. I will build up-to the maximum tension without the tyre. Only if I consider one side is too low tension, typically non drive side on rim brake wheels, will I fit a tyre and add more tension, in a measured amount.

[@Mapdec]

Try it. Test it. Pretty common practise these days.

[@Mapdec]

Building to max is a bit of a throwback to alu days. With carbon it’s usually best to build to the necessary tension and give yourself some headroom.

[@grahamsimpson290]

I also have these wheels, really like them, my first carbon wheels. Regarding the grease, were abouts do i need to add the grease, im not bike tecky, i just ride them😂

[@Mapdec]

The bits I pointed at.

[@knott4me561]

For anyone wanting fruuhub pawls springs bearings the spacer etc it's the Exact same freehub as the nukeproof horizon v2 and the mtb hunt freehub so if you need a xd hg etc

[@Mapdec]

Good info.

[@jamble7k]

so they're loud then haha

[@explodinglamas]

interestingly that driver body appears to be the same design as a Funn Fantom, Spank Hex, and Nukeproof Horizon V2 hub driver, all mountain bike hubs. I have worked on all of them and changed a few over for compatibility changes and all the drivers that have come on wheel sets, and those that have come as spares, have been thoroughly greased out of the box. Odd that these ones were almost completely dry. Admittedly the hub body itself does appear to be completely different to those mountain bike hubs I mentioned earlier, I wonder if/where the manufacturing/assembly for these diverges.

[@Mapdec]

Ah. Yes. Funn wheels. I thought I recognised it.

[@Countrystock]

Thx for the heads up about what freehub it is. Tried to find out a few months back when Sigma were out of stock. I'll know for next time 👍🏻

[@Countrystock]

I’ve got these wheels and thyevybeen brilliant........but you’ve made me think I need to check the freehub for grease. What tools do I need??? Thank you

[@Mapdec]

They just pull apart. Might be a bit stiff.

[@Countrystock]

@@Mapdec Brilliant thank you for the rapid response. 👍🏻

[@davidgeorge9233]

Paul that’s interesting about mounting a tyre and setting spoke tension, how would you do this on a DT Swiss wheel with hidden nipples? I have a set of pr1400 clinchers and recall when I first got them that Schwalbe ones put them out of true, had to switch to Vittoria Corsas for that reason.

[@Mapdec]

Wheels with internal nipples are usually factory made. They would typically use some kind of press.

[@davidgeorge9233]

@@Mapdec No what I meant was how would you adjust tension with the tyre covering the spoke holes, is it a case of mount the tyre, check tension, remove tyre adjust, re mount tyre and repeat until it’s right?

[@Dannyboi669]

Just to clarify would you say these are worth it then from stoke wheels am i going to notice a difference, and if i should spend my money else where on a similar budget where would you recommend? Love your work as always.

[@Mapdec]

Depends what your stock wheels are. If they are some shallow Alu wheels, yes you will notice a difference

[@Dannyboi669]

@Mapdec yeah I'm running the stock wheels that came on my giant ar2 they weigh 2kg as far as I can find out and they're shallow alu wheels.

[@bikepackingadventure7913]

I have 2x sets of Vel wheels with DTswiss 240 hubs I have the Gravel RSL and the RSL50 wheels Have both well over a year, one one my long distance road bike and the gravel 650b set I’m currently using on my 2 week Hebridean way loaded bikepacking trip. Not had a single issue with them, I’m well happy for the price

[@andreemurray7039]

Chinese brands are other way ups top brand's are charging very high prices pro x wheels are good wheels along with windspace thank you for you video

[@aerobrain2001]

I bought a set in the sale as I’m getting a new bike. Theory was if the shop I’m buying the bike from can do me a deal on some wheels I’ll use the 90 day free returns on the Vel wheels. Overall I still think they’re fine for my purpose as I’m likely to buy a higher end wheelset next year. But regarding the ungreased pawls, is there specific grease you should put in them? And do you generally apply just to the pawls or onto the ratchet teeth?! Cheers!

[@Mapdec]

Just a regular bearing grease would be good. Doesn’t need much, just more than a smear.

[@aerobrain2001]

@@Mapdec cheers!

[@DanTuber]

Any technical opinions on farsports wheels?

[@Mapdec]

Honestly never seen a pair

[@marcopolo6668]

I have a couple of sets of VEL which I'll be using for summer cycling, although some of the info is beneficial how can you expect to be taken seriously when you compare them to another brand three times the price

[@Mapdec]

How can I expect to be taken seriously…. Well I needed to show what a good wheel looks like in comparison. If that wasn’t helpful to you, what would be. Oh, here is another cheap wheel. It has this problem too 🤷‍♂️. Wow.

[@marcopolo6668]

I rest my case, the VEL are £400 and even when not on sale are still far less than the FF £1200. I'm not saying the VEL are in the same league but at least something price-matching and I mean a wheel who's actual price is the same as another and then compare. To much material on KZbin where nothing is like for like...Wow

[@Mapdec]

Go on then. Name a wheelset, I’ll try and get a set in.

[@marcopolo6668]

I couldn't...apart from a set of Prime but they're back up to £800.00 last time I checked.

[@Mapdec]

@@marcopolo6668 …and virtually the same.

[@anthonylarson7919]

10:20.....most folks over grease "stuff" ....bearing is about 1/4 full ..

[@nicholascowen]

I have this set of wheels. Have done less then 900k on them and the freehub has stopper engaging. Going through warranty at the moment. The fact they have no grease in the free hub might have something to do with the issue.

[@Mapdec]

Good place to start. I hope this helped.

[@JFomo]

But what about wheels with internal nipples? How are they going to tension the spokes if the tyres are on? I am going to assume the very high price I would pay for some Enve wheels would not have these problems 😲

[@Mapdec]

Enve build their wheels extremely well using hydraulic presses for consistency. Replacing a broken spoke on them however is a real pain. Not just the access, but equalising the tension again too.

[@geoleo2597]

As always great review and explanation. Hmm on the border of collapse to be in between under-tension yet with stress risers. It’s a lose-lose situation that I wouldn’t feel safe riding. I have a set a Reynolds gravel wheels. Absolutely crap build!!! I had 6 months of 2x week road only riding never on dirt. Then I cleaned the bike and put in dry storage away from any moisture for 1.5 years. Come back and several spokes had corroded at the cross junctions and snapped. Again they were not used for 1.5 years!!! Reynolds wouldn’t warranty them because it was more than 2 years. I don’t know what spokes were used or how accurate the tensions were but I’ll never buy another Reynolds brand product again! Absolutely crap.

[@aljaliah6868]

I love FFWD ! Have you done any episodes on them and/or NSWs ???

[@Mapdec]

Yes. There is a dedicated vid and we often talk about them

[@CrabgrassFarmer]

Can you buy these in the U.S.? Sigma says they can't ship them. Can't find anyone else who has them. Anyone in the U.S. running them?

[@sham2613]

Great vid!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you

[@soapowejazz]

Wouldn't it be faster to build the wheel without a tire on and bring the spoke tension already at the maximum allowed? Of course it is going to drop after the tire is installed, but the spoke tension was already at the maximum without the tire so you should not got much higher. I think the tire on is good for dishing. The spoke with the steepest angle will take the larger part of the compressive force from the tire pressure and this might end up messing up the dish of the wheel.

[@Mapdec]

You would likey get spoke wind up and need to keep de stressing. Faster to put a tyre on.

[@soapowejazz]

@@Mapdec not if you put some motor oil at the spoke threads and on the interface nipple to rim (and use brass nipples). If using round spokes I 3D printed a clip that attaches to the spoke and shows me when turning the nipple if the spoke is actually winding up. If that happens I keep turning the nipples until the torsional stiffness of the spoke stops the wind up and the threads starts engaging. after I added my, say, half a turn to the nipple I then turn back the nipple by the same amount it rotated during the wind up, which I could see with the clip. Or you can use a tool to hold the spokes (park makes one). If you use bladed spokes you anyway have to hold them so there is no wind up. De-stressing is always done at the end of the process in any case.

[@Mapdec]

@@soapowejazz de stress throughout. 👍

[@larisonjohnson]

Paul, once again, you’ve educated me, made me laugh, and got me thinking. The issues you identified around the nipples and regarding spares is enough to make me look elsewhere. “Not Terrible”… I wonder what terrible looks like?

[@Mapdec]

If they hadn’t used nipple washers and brought it up to tension it would have been a terrible mess. I suspect this probably happened and the washers were a quick fix to make something they had already produced somewhat useable.

[@technomindof6878]

Would be cool you doing viewers bike rating 👍

[@IvanMalechko]

Another question is how does this Lifeline truing stand compares to Parktool?

[@Mapdec]

Very similar. Not quite as stiff or heavy, but easier to centre.

[@IvanMalechko]

@@Mapdec Thank you! Seems like a good buy, $106 on sale.

[@Robutube1]

"Not terrible"😂. No doubt they'll be in touch with you for permission to use such a ringing endorsement! More seriously, kit like this helps one to calibrate against the big brands pricing and what you're getting for that 'premium tax'.

[@ricksvic6062]

Owns and runs a bike shop, gets hold of a pair of competitor exclusive wheels under the modt scrupulous of circumstances, and attempts to rubbish them. I've run RL50s for 2,500 miles with no issues. Took them to LBS for a service at the end of the season, they had never heard of VEL and they were very very impressed with them considering the price.

[@Mapdec]

Yeah. If you came to visit us you would understand. We don’t sell stuff like this.

[@ricksvic6062]

@@Mapdec appreciate that. Nice to see a detailed review of them in any case.

[@jackiegammon2065]

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would want 80mm wheels on an adventure bike... I guess I'm thinking about folks that ride ultra distance and more than likely will not have access to anything that they might have stored in a vehicle somewhere. Now as you pointed out, some higher end wheels are getting better with their designs of the rim and those are becoming rideable in many conditions. But, we are talking about two very different wheels and cost options as well. For me; I'm NEVER going to buy wheels at prices like this, I'm not looking at wheels that I'll ride a short while and then replace. Personally, it simply does not make sense. If the reason for buying these wheels is cost/owning a carbon wheelset; I'd simply save more money and get a reputable pair. Otherwise, I'm spending more time/money in looking for parts for the wheels, and if I'm not a mechanic, spending more time in the shop. All the while not knowing, whether the carbon itself is going to hold up or not And I would totally expect that the hubs have little or no grease in them, I'm buying a low end product. Reminds me of bikes/parts that we see from a department store...sadly.

[@Mapdec]

You will see these super deep wheels on big distance events.

[@frankling9840]

Big question is, do you think a high quality hand built alli wheel is better than budget carbon, in terms of durability and performance

[@Mapdec]

Oh. Now there is a question for the podcast

[@patrickscott1175]

Wonder if they’ve changed the manufacturing process on the back of this video? Sigma Sports now say they’re using brass nipples.

[@Mapdec]

They seem to be changing the spec and pricing all the time. Very unpredictable

[@mokotramp]

Great video! No such thing as a cheap, well made carbon wheelset! Not so long back I purchase some Vittoria Elusion 42 for 499 quid reduced from a grand, they ooze quality compared to this junk!

[@zhoujustin1954]

can i run clinchers on vel rl 38😮

[@Mapdec]

What does the spec sheet say?

[@zhoujustin1954]

@@Mapdec my bad… i was actually hoping that its a duo system wheelset

[@zhoujustin1954]

@@Mapdec holy wait it actually can😍

[@Mapdec]

Well done 👍

[@zhoujustin1954]

@@Mapdec Lol thanks for reminding me😄 I‘m new to this sport and there’s some technical vocabs that I'm not sure about. Great video btw

[@daryltill70]

I’ve been running these for over twelve months with no problems whatsoever

[@Mapdec]

Good to know. Thanks.

[@aleksarajkovic3471]

I would always just rather buy used wheels with dt hubs and good hoops then some new sketchy wheel sets ...

[@steve050867]

No matter the wheel I put a drop of Superglue on each nipple stops the spokes going lose

[@Mapdec]

They still have to be at the required tension. I heard this hack works. I tend to use spoke freeze if I have too. Very rarely used. If tension is balanced it is not necessary

[@Bradbajc]

How do you true a wheel with the tire on, if the spoke nipples are internal? haha

[@Mapdec]

Unlucky. What a silly idea.

[@Bradbajc]

@@Mapdec you said it's best to true with the tire on. My wheels have internal nipples.

[@Mapdec]

Not true. Tension. If you have internal nipples this would be done at factory. No wheel builder would choose that silly idea.

[@Bradbajc]

@@Mapdec so ENVE did it wrong?

[@Mapdec]

As you’re up for a debate. Yes and no. 1. Enve rims are strong as hell and are built to a high tension from factory, and they use some very cool tools to ensure consistency. They will use a calibrated hydraulic press to make sure every rim has the same load applied while being tensioned. 2. If you have every had to change a spoke on an Enve wheel I think you would make a strong argument for the internal nipple being a stupid idea. 3. Nothing all that special about Enve wheels. They don’t ride particularly better. Since they started using their own hubs rather than chris king, they don’t have the same durability. 4. Everyone likes the ENVE logo design

[@daryltill70]

I find it extremely hard to believe that wheel manufacturers put a tyre and tube onto every wheel they make pump it up to pressure retighten the spokes then take them off again 😮

[@richardgate1571]

They won’t.

[@Mapdec]

They will use a hydraulic press in factories to simulate. @pacenti and FFWD tension with tyre on.

[@daryltill70]

@@Mapdec aaah I see my bad 😁

[@richardgate1571]

I’d suggest you build a spoke tension jig, using a crane scale. Put a spoke under measured tension and take a reading with your park tool tensiometer. I wouldn’t trust the reading you get just using the park tool tension chart. Basically you need to apply a calibration for the tensiometer.

[@Mapdec]

We have one. Just a home made thing on an alu frame. We have a DT Swiss digital tension meter too, but over kill for a KZbin vid. It’s always in use downstairs.

[@jameschen6070]

Well, the actual nipple washer is different from the one you posted. The weight of the washer is so small that can be ignored. Even you have 24 pcs per wheel. Still less than 1-2 gram.

[@Mapdec]

It seems like they are changing the spec of these almost constantly

[@jameschen6070]

@@Mapdec The washer type did not change since they launched the wheels. In wheels AM market, the wheel is all hand-built. Not by machine. Just sharing. :)

[@Mapdec]

Do you work for them?

[@nationsnumber1chump]

Those look like Hunt wheels

[@Mapdec]

Aye. All these start to blend into one

[@_Zane__]

Not sure i would trust these rims being 230lbs 😂

[@lovenottheworld5723]

Buy them cheap and rebuild them yourself with brass nipples.

[@lovenottheworld5723]

I retract that comment.

[@Mapdec]

sort of. Anodising helps. Corrosion here is galvanic due to nobility of materials sped up with salty winter roads. Yes, brass can corrode too. Much less likely or quickly in this situation. Brass is strong and plenty strong enough for these tensions. Only raised head alu nipples could be argued to be stronger. 12mm vs 12mm the brass will be stronger. Also, brass less likely to crack or deform while being worked.

[@barryherron5351]

You're totally wrong, a prime wheelset off wiggle is way better than a mavic equivalent.

[@Mapdec]

Uh? Did you listen to the end of that vid? That’s exactly what I just said. 🤷‍♂️. Apart from the fact we are talking about VEL and never mentioned Prime. Are you commenting on the same vid 😂