Italian Blues Midtiers Not Effective

[@TheAngelobarker]

Zara:exists with heaviest ca armor in ww2 Wargaming: I'm about to end this Paisano's whole career.

[@Wantaed]

I was thinking same thing why am I being pin'ed by fucking Mogami's 155mm AP from the front...

[@tiago4158]

since its an Axis ship, through WG-logic it mustnt be good, nor historically accurate. look at german BBs having the worst accuracy or japanese cruisers being squishy af

[@TheAngelobarker]

@@tiago4158 you have no clue about the Italian navy mate. Germans couldn't design their way out of a hole when it comes to naval. And you know who else was axis....japan. the fack wargaming gave the littorio the battleship with the longest ever range a short ass range tells me all I need to know. Zara irl was a super heavily armored ca.

[@alessandrobianchi645]

zara lightly armored is the most inaccurate thing they could do in this game

[@belladesa91]

@@tiago4158 wht a bunch of bullshits lol. The Italian navy prob was ammo type, not dispersion

[@locomotiveAlex1996]

the Genova is such a pain to play, i got the admiral bundle and i have to say it kinda sucks as the dpm just isn't their. im aware it is only tier 5 but the lack of damage dealing plus the 20 second reload is painful.

[@shanehebert396]

Same here... across the board. I was in matches, even with the tier 7 and 8, where BBs literally didn't care about me other than for racking up citadels. I was wailing away on BBs with SAP and AP and just not getting any damage... like less than 1000 points per salvo.

[@qwax]

@@shanehebert396 Think those ships that out now are intended to fight against cruisers. Not battleships. Somebody came at me with one of those ships and I just brushed them aside in my battleship.

[@ThenVersusNow_]

You paid real money? Wow

[@robertcras8151]

Are you Italian to waste so much money on a shitty boat??

[@paolosempreforte2640]

I understand that we italians were not so loved or good during ww2, but hasn’t this revenge went too far?

[@mikep3180]

Lmao

[@DasTod]

Laughs in KSM ships! Wait, I'm sad now....

[@InarusLynx]

@@DasTod poor Kreigs Marine. 😢

[@OneofInfinity.]

🤣

[@ZairuK9001]

I agree it has, you provide us with such wonderful and beautiful cars, and this is how WG repays you, :(

[@1338Sunshine]

Agree completely. I bought the bundle thinking I was getting a deal on the crates and getting the Genova as a bonus... WRONG. This is a pos.

[@Nurg1982]

hold on, that shit cost like 150-200 bucks to buy. for what? They don't even guarantee the special missions for the normal 5-6-7 tier ships

[@Nope-55]

I got the Genova and after playing it I have no Interest in play any Italian cruises looking forward to British heavy cruiser

[@das294bs]

Play from T7 Zara and above and you will really notice the difference, Genova is simply not the best representation of the Italian navy and shouldn't be taken as reference....

[@das294bs]

@colin minhinnick indeed, Génova is weak, I ve played the t7 and t8 and boy i cant wait to play the T9 and T10 with those extra turrets and SAP rounds! The good thing so far is that you really feel the progression of the ships like no other line...

[@sjguk267]

I'd rather wait for the Brit heavy cruisers than grind these.

[@martynjones3978]

sjguk267 they will probably nerf the brit heavy cruisers too!! Like they did the light cruisers!!

[@captaintomato5433]

@@martynjones3978 The British light cruisers are some of the most powerful cruiser of their respective tiers all the way from 6-10. What are you even on about?

[@martynjones3978]

You clearly get preferably mm, as i have never had games where the cruisers i had were powerful!! Take HE away your ability to take on battleships is severely diminished!! Unless there broadside you do very little so when your trying to hold a flank and beat the retreat your AP does very little!! against cruisers and DD’s they have an impact but one or two BB’s with them your stuffed. So please pass on your luck of good MM and i will sink there praise like you do!!

[@captaintomato5433]

@@martynjones3978 Nonsense. Even bottom tier, Fiji and Leander carry their weight and the Edinburgh and Neptune is more than sufficiently powerful. As for the battleship issue, they do about as much damage as other cruisers if well positioned and wins most cruiser on cruiser duels. If you NEED to be the sole one damaging battleships, then you already did something wrong. A properly played British cruiser will result in the enemy destroyers all being dead and your team's destroyers ripping apart the enemy battleships. Besides, I have close to a thousand battles alone on the British cruisers. I very much doubt I had favorable matchmaking on every one of those matches. Are you playing the Edinburgh, Neptune, and Minotaur with the smoke consumable? Is that the issue?

[@martynjones3978]

I have only just got the Edinburgh and i have done better not using the smoke as i have never had teams good enough to be able to utilise the smoke screen and most the kills i have had have all been DD’s and cruisers. My only gripe with them is the lack of HE which helps to tackle aggressive well played battleships. Out of the line id say the Leander so far has been the best cruiser and most fun. But i do think it will improve when i unlock Neptune its just getting there!! At the moment i just dont get any teams that do what there suppose to do in the ships there in so i end up holding flanks or trying to plugging gaps long enough to try salvage the game!!

[@stflaw]

Playing Genova and Trento. "Not effective" is an understatement.

[@griggs6286]

They are so bad XD Any other ship at that tier is better sadly. Would love to play Italy but they are just so shit in general.

[@stflaw]

@@griggs6286 Finished the line. Venezia is worth the grind.

[@JackalEtheriasu]

@@griggs6286 Yeah, i just unlock the Trento yesterday i was just surprise of the level shitty concealment that thing has, i was just "God dammit WG, tell at least i had a range plane" thanks god they have one, i would agreed that the only thing that trento need to be a little better is a better conceal, just that even if in exchange you had just 2 torps on Hull B with a shitty angle, something like that idk

[@ROBERTO-in2iq]

I strongly agree with everything you said Notser; I think that they need a small reload buff too (2 or 3 seconds depending on the Tier), because the DPM doesn't make up for lack of setting fires (see RN cruisers).

[@Raycu2]

Yeah I saw an argument on the subreddit that tried to claim that because the Furutaka has similarly low DPM that the Genova is fine. Ignoring the Furutaka's fire setting ability and much more usable torps. Not just that but also it has rail gun accuracy and shell velocity.

[@luketfer]

Also that argument ignored that the Furutaka gets a reload buff when fully upgraded, it goes from 6 203mm guns every 20 second to every 16 seconds. RN cruisers work because you get smoke and a heal and hydro and their lazy arcs allow you to pull American playstyles and fire over islands. The Italian smoke isn't great, it lets you escape sure but it's not multi-purpose because of its short duration unlike the RN smoke.

[@charliedontsurf334]

You notice that this never happens with Russian ships...

[@CTR-0HA]

Maybe I’m wrong, actual don’t like mid tier Russian BBs. Especially T7/8..

[@Trawn91]

@@CTR-0HA You may not like them, but Vladi and especially Sinop are the best BB at their tiers. CB and ranked proved that enough

[@CTR-0HA]

Trawn91 Ranked battle is very different from random. Both side is spawned closer in map, and you have to cap. You will often find someone within your 13km range and have a good shot at them. However, in random, there are so much HE spammers that don’t push and don’t care of wining. One hide behind mountain HE spammer could make your game silly.

[@nasirmuhammad8437]

No but fr I love the Budypnny...great guns, but the armor is so shit

[@SDZ675]

We all know if the Italian cruisers were Russian, they'd have a 5s reload.

[@nerflongbows]

finally some1 said this!!! Thanks Notser. Trento's arcs are so awful. The shells go up high like american CAs and lose all the speed. They are easy to dodge. They just lose all the velocity beyond 12km. So disappointed with it

[@_lumiaart_2010]

The tier 5s shells go all over the place at times. This ship Blow's

[@jevinliu4658]

I had no idea that they nerfed Genova with the normalization thing either. This normalization nerf is a complete mistake.

[@soffici1]

to make Russian ships shine a little more, I suppose

[@brendan4378]

Thanks Notser. I just got the Trento yesterday. The damage output seems fair- but what gets me is the surface detection+gigantic citadel. I can't remember the last time i was devstruck from awakward angles, so many times. Not even in my Pensacola. For me personally, without a 10 point captain (concealment) , it's a gigantic chore to play this ship. You can't show any angle to a BB whatsoever, and the arcs aren't exactly floaty enough to reliably use island cover.

[@gregs847]

Xiiphos , i agree with you, concealment on my Trento without captain skill is 14.1km it does really sucks

[@killingyouwithlogic5808]

yea i have a 18 and 19 italian capts for t9 t10 when released i figured ill just use them so no messing around in t10 matchs i put 1 on my Trento the 18 and honestly not having near as many issues now 100% need that concealment

[@EK4Ash]

If SAP is OP then Smolensk needs a buff... ffs WG get a grip wheres the consistency?

[@glhmedic]

Agreed. Got the Genova to take a look at sap and get some flags and was really disappointed. Reminds me of the Exeter.

[@PatrickJoergensen]

The reload time doesn't really bother me much; neither does the fact that I can't light fires with the ammo selections. What I am absolutely furious about, is that no matter what angle and area I shoot at on a ship (particularly soviet BBs at these tiers from the matches I've played so far) I get so damn many 0 dmg pens, richochets or shatters, no matter if I use SAP or regular AP. Even broadside light cruisers give a max of 3k dmg even with regular pens because of this, and I've tried aiming for superstructure, bow and stern sections - and on these areas at different angles with spotterplane (screw the fighter, I want to be able to see over islands with all these smokes atm) IMO this line is only good at one thing at these tiers (if they are ignored by the enemy that is, which of course they aren't because they are new), and that is support. Nothing else I've tried have worked out.

[@Mr_Secondaries]

This... SAP is great against dds, ok at cruisers that have low armor schemes, but poor at bbs. Ive gone super try hard in the montecuccoli highest i can get is 98k. In the duca ive done 110k with much less effort needed, and a lot less frustration. Just a lot of work required for little reward.

[@Wantaed]

The best i ever got in my Zara is 60k.. and it seems the T5 and T6 are slightly better somehow

[@Mr_Secondaries]

@@Wantaed think its because you encounter lighter armored ships in the T5 mm range more often. SAP shredds some cruisers at this tier, but bbs.. nope.

[@PatrickJoergensen]

@@Mr_Secondaries Yeah DDs take good dmg if you hit them; think my best so far have been with the Genova at about 55k but when I can get 115k in my Königsberg with much less effort, it doesn't really appeal to me on a regular basis 😅

[@Danieloncarevic]

The worst line ever released. At least the ones available at the moment, especially the 'premium' (more like a joke than a premium) T5 Genova.

[@GREW89]

One round with Genova was enough to lose all interest in Italian ships (low to mid tier at least). Since when WG stuff makes sense again?

[@simonkevnorris]

As Notser has explained the upper mid tier silver ships are OK - the rest are a pain. I think even the T5 cruiser feels better than the Genova.

[@akulla3D]

Thanks for pointing this out, I was really looking forward to the Italians and I have the same feeling of disappointment.

[@richarddyson4380]

I thought from your earlier videos that the Italian line with the SAP was going to bring something unique and, dare I say it, balancing against the growing Russian bias at the mid-high tiers. I will scrub this line off my list and wait for the British heavy cruiser line. Thanks for your honest appraisal mate. Great video as always.

[@evarno1262]

I got the montecuccoli the only time i did any significant damage was a massive sap citadel strike on a broadsiding CV

[@mrtickles2129]

Yeah, I'm sitting out this whole Italian thing. Bad play, WG.

[@TomMJH]

My thoughts exactly! Great review.

[@Longsword814]

I liked the low tier Italian cruisers but yes once I played V and up I started to rethink playing the line. I used the tier X on the test server and enjoyed that but that grind is going to suck.

[@TheExcessive1]

I’m glad it just wasn’t me. Too bad there wasn’t second impression videos after the changes made to the penetration angles of the SAP and before they were released. I wasn’t aware of the nerf and your first first impression videos really described these new ships as all that and a bag of chips.

[@ssejr01]

Classic Wargaming and their spreadsheets lol

[@gsylass]

Agreed. A line that is only balanced by spreadsheet. Do the devs even play their own game?!

[@play030]

Super testers and CCs are responsible also.

[@Aydenn_1k]

@@gsylass they sometimes play on streams, but they are awful

[@aragathor]

@@play030 WG does not listen to testers and CCs. Remember Belfast? Testers said it was bad, too strong, and WG pulled a goofy.

[@georgerbuchanan]

Marcin Skupnik to be fair,they did nerf it before release...believe it or not it originally had a faster rate of fire and torpedoes...yeah, still unusually...strong?! afterwards...

[@vharzul6955]

I hve to agree with you, and im glad you'Ve braught this up... I got the Genova for Tokens in my 4th Bundle, and i got the T8 Amalfi through 1 Ita Prem. Container that i baught and got lucky, thiers a staunch differance in Gunreload to say the least... but even at 16/s reload for Amalfi the other ships just pumel you very quickly du to the Armor, also with Max Range of 16km+ just about you take enourmus dmg for the trying to get any decent dmg on enemy or help your Team.. yes the Ship is fast and Agile but that helps little, and the Smoke only has very very low charges.. My First try was in he Genova and i was shocked sort of that it did not have Smoke Generator for its Specific special trait so as you said people can get a taist for the Italian Ships.. the Reload is abysmal to say the least and the gun turret speed is also meh.. the dmg from SAP to target as you stated leaves much to be disiared compared to what you and other CC's got to test on Live Server and show. I can understand that Balance was needed in some retrospec, but i feal they have nauterd the Italian Cruisers to fast before they where even get to be played by the general Community and then start to tweak them a bit more if need be. But at always they just use a Sledgehammer... its realy sad.

[@soeveth]

Thank you, I thought I was doing something wrong with these ships. Make one bad call, dont turn fast enough, miss one incomming salvo, or something like that and your dead. These ship punish any little mistake you make which I dont mind If they had something to make up for it but I dont see it right now. As of right now I cant recommend these ships to anyone they are just not fun to play. Im sure they come back and say there was a bug where the Sap on didnt have the right pen or something.

[@btbarr16]

Thank you for putting out this video. Glad I won't be waiting my time on them.

[@Leptospirosi]

when you get up tiered with tier V and VI ships, there are situation when you don't know how to deal damage to the enemy: I had a squishy Fiji which was charging me in my Genova from 12 km away and pummelling mew with a lot of damaging AP while I was bow on, and in return all of my SAP were bouncing harmlessly... I couldn't almost deal damage to a broadside Bayern, so in the end I had to try target occasional DD an CL, but the slow reload were narrowing the opportunity window... Also, and it's a big problem, Mid tier SAP are extremely aching and floaty, which makes really difficult to hit something at distance (again thanks to the lethargic reload)... It's a mess!!! I 'm wondering how the tech tree was allowed in the game in this state!!!

[@sellma111]

I also groan when i see a Genova in my team as it means we are down one player at the start.

[@izwall4117]

My only experience with Genova: I played T6 French dd Gepard and I sailed around an island alone and I met Genova at range around 5km. I dreaded, turned on speed boost, lunched torps and started running away. We both had about 3/4 of health. Genova dodged hasty torps and started showing broadside in order to shoot me with all guns. I switched to AP turned on reload booster... the result: I scored more than 10 citadels and eventually finished that cruiser with HE when he tried to run away. I survived with a little bit more than 1/3 of life (one salvo hit me for cca 3k dmg and that was all).... I cannot imagine to survive such encounter against any other t5 cruiser

[@ugk1106]

I got all four pre-access ships. My impression of SAP is that its too tricky to archive any accepable damage during a random with the italian AP/SAP combo. Your dmg at random is at about 30-40% less to a comparable ship. Driving ltalian makes you helpless vs. angled and/or targets. No option to occure any dmg like other lines can do with HE. If a round like SAP sucks that hard you need a faster rate of fire. Currently the italian CA-line is carbage. The low italian reload, bad conceal and inegfectice ammo is one of the biggest WG flaws ever. You can dump that line as well as the following italian lines using SAP.

[@is3t]

And this is just a disgrace! Italian CAs line could have been a great tech tree with historical good ships, but WG doesn't care! They make useless soviet ships overpowered and they ruin an entire line, one of the most important, the Italian one!

[@DrNauseous]

9:20 that is a spot on evaluation. ...although, I do have fun in my Genova. I'm glad I got the Admiral's pack. Love the clean white camo. Also, last night completed the 4-camo collection from the event. Only have Monty so far.

[@nualanet]

I concur with your assessment of Genova. It is really "lackluster" to put it bluntly. Getting any decent numbers requires a LOT of work and the patience of Job. Sad, because I too would like to enjoy collecting the Italian line.

[@MendicantBias1]

Had good luck with the T6 Trento, using 12km torps with 1km detect range is quite fun to surprise other players. Then use smoke to retreat and spam SAP.

[@redtitan75]

I got trento and from what i see, they seem to play like japanese/french cruisers, ie, kite away or flank and target destroyers in range and avoid brawling . Also i noticed peoples seem to dislike when others play this kind of cautious playstyle. In my last game in coop, despite winning, being top of the team in xp , doing my best to support and not speaking a word in chat, i lost a karma point in that game. The Japanese heavy cruisers however might have similar reload and no smoke but each salvo are consistent.

[@arxswartz9377]

I've also had the same experience on my Trento, last match I played with her I had to kite away almost the whole match because I was perma focused all game by 4 ships, got like 1.5mil potential damage about 40k damage and got third place on the team score. But any of that doesn't matter, my Vladivostok was pinging and bitching about me "running away the whole game and doing nothing" and got 2 reports. If people actually tried these cruisers themeselves they would maybe understand that you can't get close face to face against other cruisers with the 15s reload, and BB's don't even think about it. My main complaint with Trento is that for it's reload time the guns don't feel that consistent, shell speed is meh and the balistic are meh.

[@sirdancealot2645]

The karma is... well, a pain in the ass in this game as many chair admiral cry and report you regardless of how you supported the team or solo won a game. But, in contrast as a BB player, I have seen many "kiter" cruisers just run away from the battlefield for no reason. For example if you do not have any DD on your spawn side, these cruisers should support the BBs on that side, especially Zao with good concealment or some CEs with smoke screens. Instead, half of the time, these cruisers prefer running to the back or going to the cap point on the opposite side of the map.

[@TheBaralinChannel]

@@sirdancealot2645 Honestly it's cause you die if you try to play a cruiser like a DD. When there's no DD on a side, I go to the side with a DD in my cruiser to help it. Maybe I'm just bad but Zao and Mino's job isn't to play proxy DDs. They do terrible at that playstyle at the start. Later on in the game they can be more aggressive but at the start it makes for a quick trip back to port.

[@retiredinSeattle]

TheBaralinChannel :)

[@gfg_horseman7159]

@@TheBaralinChannel If there is no DD on the side you spawn and your in a CA or CL with under 12km concealment, yes you should try to proxy as a DD on the cap point you spawned in front of. You dont have to commit to capping that point and throw your ship away, but try to pester the cap, because a lot of times you can grab that point for free or with little resistance and then continue on to open a cross fire on the enemy team. When there is no DD spawning on a side, the ship on that side with the best concealment basically becomes a DD, because it wins the vision contest. Leaving that flank open, leads to many more losses than contesting the point.

[@jjstuartonwriting8150]

Just unlocked the Trento today, and hit a Gnesenau (sp?) the tier 7 German BB with SAP salvo for 7k then again, same spot for 500. Very weird.

[@pole-star2118]

Agree completely. I'm liking the Amalfi though

[@KellyEastwood855]

I just received the Trento for free. I had a couple BTLs with her and here are my thoughts: 1. SAP is not more than HE, it's much less! It still bounces from BBs (unless you can aim at super), sometimes from cruisers as well. Plus we lost the fire chance. So, SAP is useless, it's only effective against broadside targets. AP is OK as it should be! 2. Exhaust smoke is useless in the present form. It lasts for 10 secs, while reducing your visibility just a bit. So if you shoot in smoke while charging, you get spotted and abolished. Gun reload is kinda ok, but projectile velocity is too slow to be affective against faster CCs and DDs beyond 10 km. This line has peculiarities, but the ships are not effective at all. Probably same like Itaian cars (and everything): You must really-really love them to be satisfied. Some say: if a German car breaks it's garbage german wreck, but if an Italian car is broke (very often) it's only an allure. Same with these ships. Not effective at all, but interesting for sure!

[@Goofygooberston]

I dont know if they changed anything since this video, but the Trento is my favorite ship to play at the moment, it just works for me and my playstyle, idk why.

[@that_guy7466]

I have the T8 Amalfi and as a Cruiser Main I am not impressed, I get ricochets and Bounces all the time with SAP and the short range 16.4 is really hard to lay with against T10's that can fire 20km and spam HE at you which is forever breaking the Rudder and setting you on fire.

[@tonkatoytruck]

Totally agree. I free XPd up to the Zara. It is good on the initial offensive on the cap for support. But, other than that, your detection range makes it impossible to go undetected without smoke. You wind up hanging in the back with the BBs. You really need to know your ships and where to shoot the HP to maximize damage. AP is useless and either overpenetrates or richocet. Its all about the Venezia and its inability to be citadelled by other cruisers.

[@MadmanLink]

Dude where are the builds?

[@jamesharvey3993]

Agreed Notser, SAP needs a buff badly at the mid tiers

[@DrDarthBunny]

compared to the abruzzi and the duca the genova is pants. the reload itself is a ball ache to work around. quite like the rest of the ships even tho they seem to be under preforming

[@Dirt1061]

I am really enjoying the tech tree Italian ships. I think they need more smoke charge and a much faster reload on the smoke. I think that change will really help the ships and their survivability. They need some love though for sure to make them more viable.

[@jean-claudeschmidt7038]

Thank you for this I was tinking the same about my T5 and T6. First game I played like my French line but OMG they are really bad and have nothing in commun. Italians ship seems slower have no real tool (Speed or reload boost) and reload doesn’t make sense. As for the smoke it’s not that great. No for me I will not grind this line. Also an other question for you, I recently research the Iowa, after 5 games my feeling is that except for the HP it’s a severe downgrade from the North Carolina. Awful gun dispersion 10km and more (like the gunners are dead drunk) also mainly doing over pens and bounces. As for AA strangely I don’t know I‘m only encountering CV´s when I play DD’s. Has anyone free xped this ship or all of you played it?

[@estoyaqui5386]

I was found myself in the situation that i was facing a New Mexico alone while playing Genova. He was bow-on, the torps useless at 51kn, i could do nothing. AP bounce/shatter, SAP bounce/shatter. And ofc no fires, so WG what should i do, go afk?

[@Aelric78]

Thank God you said something, Notser. I thought I was doing something wrong. My thoughts mirror yours, I got Genova and it feels like a cruel practical joke.

[@JohnAnonym]

to be honest; I pref. SAP rounds over AP rounds. Heck, why not replace HE with SAP?

[@koudkunstje]

Why does the smoke upgrade not fit on italian cruisers while it does on haida and perth? Those actually benefit from the upgrade and so will the italian cruisers.

[@nathanly3980]

I honestly like playing my Duce D Aosta but Genova felt like a handicap version of Duce

[@thecatwithatophat4069]

Notser: "We don't want to punish players" HMS Emerald: "I beg to differ good sir."

[@michelangeloc.4265]

I got tier 5 and 6 . You are spot on. They are very bad. I Will sell both ASAP.

[@michaelreid5307]

Just played the T5 italian CL. Felt insipid.

[@jimmiarreltherford8464]

I like the Italians so far (I have the T5 tech tree ship). It's fun to play. Kitting away is good too but I do agree with Notser: It just doesn't have the DPM and the SAP doesn't get good damage on most low tier BBs or cruisers. Yes, the guns are accurate but the damage isn't there. AP is deadly within 10km but that goes for most cruisers in the game. I REALLY hope that the high tiers are better with the SAP damage. The reload isn't fully an issue if you play at mid range (like Zao or Hindenburg) but AR is extremely recommended. All and all, I'm enjoying the little T5 CL for now.

[@aaronhancock8576]

Havent had much of an issue with the guns, they feel a tad lethargic, so maybe a slight reload buff, but the torps feel useless, and the squishyness is a killer for me. Ill stick with the ijn and french cruisers, or the minotaur if i dont want to set fires. The benefits of SAP and exhaust smoke just dont outweigh how squishy these ships are, at least imho.

[@markushuber214]

Hi all how do you skill her?

[@dylancraig3845]

Just got the tier 5 Montecuccelo, outfitted her, put on a 10pt captain (even with Superintendent you only get 3 charges of smoke), took her into a random and wow, it's a little painful to play. I ended up with about 12k damage, one citadel, fired a mix of both ammo types, neither seemed very effective. Overall, the experience was frustrating enough that I'm going to go play Skyrim for a while.

[@loudub814]

Happy that I got the mission for the T7 - will only encourage me to free XP to T8. Which I never did before I always made a point to enjoy each tier but there is a limit for me.

[@jayzeebeezee7442]

Thank you Mr Notser for your commentary. Always well balanced, articulate and informative, but I'm going to break the mould here. As for the Montecuccoli, well she is not such a bad ship as everyone makes out. Fast, agile and good guns. I don't mind SAP. Think it works well. AP great at closer ranges. She is no better or worse than similar T5's at this level. She adds a different dimension to the game just like the RN line and I like that. She is fun and I like her. Perhaps I am in the minority though.

[@blackenedchrome]

Not a fan of the 20 sec reload on my Genova either. It feels like it should be down around 12 secs. I also noticed that while hitting the superstructures repeatedly of tier IV - VI BBs with the 203mm SAP rounds the damage is about the same as hitting the heavily armored parts of the ships.

[@ctranger12]

I like how I always get spotted through my smoke in the Zara

[@ctranger12]

Bryson Hastings ik I just wanna say concealment is crap

[@brent0935]

Stupid question but how do you get your bino distance thing look like that?

[@jbatina]

The SAP round is intriguing, but I have a hard time wanting to play the Italian cruisers I got in crates for all the same reasons Notser stated. Short range, slow reload, and no ability to take any damage.

[@archabe]

thank you for this

[@kcblea]

Wow the Abruzzi has 152mm guns, but this tier 6 has 203's, and a smoke...scratching my head. The Abruzzi needs a buff to firing range...15.1 is a killer. Thanks Notser for video.

[@jackyyip5468]

I guess it's better to consider using AP more often from the initial expectation, I had great games with the Amalfi and hunt down other cruisers with both SAP and AP; but the same didn't work well with the 152mm guns. The verdict from the release of T5 to T8 cruiser seems to be tilting toward an "opportunist Jack-of-All-Trades"

[@ToxxicBurst476]

What if SAP replaced AP and not HE?

[@JoeDirte157]

I've never been more disappointed...I've looked forward to the Italians since the Guilio came out. And it's really frustrating to work these ships to be competitive. So many variables have to line up to have a good game. The hardest line I've played. I've got every line to T9/T10. I've gotten Monte at T5, Trento and Zara...the only really good italian Ship is the guilio. ROMA guns are just blah. Duca and Abrezzi are meh. WG need to rework all the Italians. Frustrating to see the Soviet lines get enormous amounts of love and the Italians (actually had a strong navy) dont.

[@JoeDirte157]

@colin minhinnick alerts bern a fan of the Regia Marina and the french navies along with the US. US and French lines are fine the way they are. Frustrated the Italians are ineffective for the most part in 90% of matches.

[@daytonaofcv6856]

Wargamings Soviet bias is so blatant. I agree only thing the Italians had was their navy. At the time far more powerful then the Soviets. Wanted to see the Italian lines because they actually existed. Unlike the Soviets. 😂

[@ByzantineFalcon]

So the ships we got are very different from the ones you tested before the release? I seem to recall most of the impression videos posted talking about the need for a nerf with these ships due to them being OP. Guess WG listened.

[@rccola454]

Notser Oct. 2019 - "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed WG..."

[@Diisonbravo]

You are right Noster. I got Trento and its horrible...dont they see the numbers ?

[@NewDemocraticMan]

I was really lucky with the first crate I opened, and got the Amalfi (VIII) mission. Once completed, I played the ship. I found it fun (speed, torps, heal, engine smoke n' whatnot,) but I noticed very significant issue with angling against SAP with DDs and CAs, and a very apparent diminishing returns against BBs. I suspect that the SAP eats through the damage cap on the superstructure of BBs so quickly that by the third or fourth volley you're just eating general 'hull' damage, so the dam drops to just a couple thousand. Dealing with the short comings, but excited by the line (I love fast, maneuverable ships,) I decided to invest in the Tier V premium. BIG MISTAKE. Utter trash. The AP either over pens, or misses, and and the same issues with Tier VIII exist, but you lack the maneuverability, smoke, heal, and torp-range that made the Amalfi playable. As you pointed out, you're stuck with low DPS from a floating citadel. I later got from a crate the standard Tier V cruiser. So totally uninterested in it. It's sitting in my port right now, unplayed. I really wanted to love the Italian line. The Italians had a powerful navy in WWI and WWII, and get a lot of grief from armchair historians who only know the big battles, and not the strategic command decisions that had hobbled the fleet in WWII. I suspect some of those aforementioned historians helped inform Wargaming on how to (mis)treat the Italian ships. A sad, sad move.

[@Devrij]

For me it's the giant citadels that kill it. I got a Trento in a crate, was really excited, but it's just so fragile. I have no issue with using it as a DD hunter, and using AP against cruisers, but I can't keep it alive because its so unforgiving with that huge above water citadel

[@zachpoggemoeller9158]

I have been playing the genova and completely agree. The reload is to long. No matter how well I play just can't do enough damage to break over 60-70 k per game. If this isn't fixed I wont be bothering with the rest of the line. I don't mind grinding for good ships but this feels to painful to invest the time.

[@amandafranks5108]

How much damage do you roughly get on average in the Genova?

[@zachpoggemoeller9158]

@@amandafranks5108 40k-50k would be a good game unfortunately.

[@captbumbler5356]

Well after this review that is me leaving the Italians alone, got the 3 premiums already. I won't bother with the rest of line till changes are made and certainly won't be buying any crates. thanks Notser. keep up the good work

[@soarece8792]

Unless there was some last last minute change, all SAP except that of the Tier X has the exact same ricochet angles, so I don't really get what you're talking about midtier. All the currently playable ones suffer from the same issue.

[@Liecho]

Speaking of crappy ap angles when will the German cruisers get an angle buff, the slightest angling my rounds bounce. I’ll gladly trade my high pen HE for good angles

[@bethbuschman1044]

with sap rounds i notice better damage at far ranges on bb's. Also, the cruisers seem to be good at taking out other cruisers.

[@Tinywars]

So like the RN Cruiser line. Sure the Leander can be fun but the real fun doesn't start until the Fiji.

[@stonestm4197]

Totally agree... Torpedos? you mean the mines.... .

[@lostwookiee81]

Agree completely I bought a few crates and got the T5 and T6 mission and after getting the mission done for the tokens I'm done with them. I'll just FXP to the T10 and skip this entire line not worth my time at all in current state.

[@bradt2656]

I agree the Italian cruisers at t5 &t6 are quite painful to play

[@Billy_The_Dog]

The issues with Italian Cruisers are actually just indicative of a far MORE pressing issue with the game... The game is devolving into a giant damage farming exercise. DPM shouldn't be the be all and end all of every ship, but when WG metrics stack EXP and credits so heavily onto damage, all other play goes out the window. All teamwork aspect has gone out the window, and is focusing on rather than a team of 12, to 12 individuals fighting for damage scraps. The Italian Cruisers should work well in a team focused meta, but that is not what we have.

[@PeterCarrierii]

I also bought the Genova Admiral Pack and i'm very disappointed. If the immediate upper tiers are similar, i'm just not interested on this cruiser line anymore.

[@thatguyyouknowandlove]

So I've been out of the loop for awhile, my pc was broken but fixed now so I can play again. Does this normalization also affect the Duca and Abruzzi?

[@Notser]

No, only ships with SAP rounds. The older Italian cruisers didn't get the new ammo type

[@That-No-Moon]

I feel they are the better Italians ships currently as even though there he is a weak fire starter, they still can start fires.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

If I'm going to wait a virtual age on reloading, I might as well just play my IJN cruisers. At least they have amazing HE, albeit with squishy hulls.

[@wramsey2656]

Notser, i will play the part of the used car saleman here. Well you have to admit it has a nice paint job and you will turn a lot of heads in it. SOoo ready to close the deal? I hate to see this as i was looking forward to the Italian line, when they get it fixed i will invest in them as i am a collector of all of the nations of the game. Keep up the good work Notser!

[@matthewgillies7509]

The premium Italian cruisers outclass the mainline by a huge margin, despite their own limitations. The exception is the Genova, which is painful to play, with low speed, no smoke, and glacially slow reload. The mainline ships, of the tier 5 and 6 I've unlocked, I've found to be slow moving, with a longer than necessary reload, inaccurate guns with insufficient shell velocity to deal with destroyers. They do decent damage to battleships, but other cruisers and destroyers are more than able to HE spam them to death.

[@gtmddn]

I have enjoyed the tier 6. I agree that you cant go up against BS. But the sap rounds are really good on destroyer and most crusiers at that level. The Torps I agree are weak. Mostly because of speed. The best I try to do is use the to turn a ship. Never really intend on hitting anything with them

[@Omegawerewolfx]

I got 10 crates, got all 4 ships. they suck. You're better off using the British and German cruisers. SAP is very disappointing. The torps are incredibly slow and really only good on close combat and straight line warriors. I was worried that SAP was going to make life miserable for DDs. I no longer feel that way. I prefer Italians use their SAP on me so I can walk away laughing back into concealment.

[@Straswa]

Nice vid Notser, disappointed to hear the new Italian ships are underperforming.

[@oskarmihalovic3903]

what is easy mode fireing?

[@sotiriz2707]

I know it has nothing to do with this video but i would like you to give me an advice...USS Alaska or Siegfried?...I want to buy alaska but i cant tell if siegfried is better ...I cant buy both ...I like both the american and the german gameplay so i cant decide...Should i buy Alaska or wait till siegfried comes up?...I need your advice please help...Thanks.

[@garyjones9023]

Comrade Balance's job is never done until the only ships played in KOTS tournament are all Soviet ships. I have to admit WG is doing an excellent job, as the NA champion used 8 Soviet ships out of 9 ships total in defeating the EU champion. But clearly there is work to be done since one non-Soviet ship did make it into the lineup. Buffs for Soviet ships are indicated and nerfs for all other ships can be expected.

[@IsKor06]

I must say I was pretty hyped by this new line, but your vid is cooling my enthusiasm... Let's see if WG do something about this. Good thing is that I ALWAYS wait a long while before grinding new lines.. I'm not finished yet with French BBs :D

[@SWIFTO_SCYTHE]

Solution is your pay money to buy free XP conversion so you can skip the mid tiers and get to the real meat of the game tear non into your 10 all you have to do is Ben real money :) everyone should just bend money who needs to play the mid tiers right right?

[@touchofgrayphotos]

So t seems that SAP is abbreviation for "Seriously Arsed Projectiles"

[@captainreed3268]

I'm so happy I got Genova outta the armory and didn't spend money on it, I honestly just sold it for credits since I was low and its such a piece of crap

[@simonkevnorris]

Never sell a premium ship no matter how much of a lemon it is as you may well be 'rewarded' with it in a crate at some stage (rather than some other ship you don't have or dubloons if you have them all). I sold a Krasny Kreme and got it back in a Xmas container.......