The current NASA head guy was an astronaut and went into space, ISS.
@raymondlawson95521 сағат бұрын
They are slipping into maga talking points, facts don’t matter only their feelings or Elons feelings.
@GenealogistBuchanan20 сағат бұрын
The story about the power train brought back memories. In the spring of 1972, "higher than normal" flood waters destroyed the power lines supplying our remote town of Grande Cache. Huge diesel generators were brought in by train to supply us with electricity until the power lines could be rebuilt. So in an emergency, a trainload of megapacks could be a very good thing.
@MrLouiu34 сағат бұрын
Good idea - but as a backup. Priority should be a well maintained grid
@jonevansauthor23 сағат бұрын
If you electrify your trains, you already have a wire... so like... I mean... we're installing battery trains in the UK but not to use on the main lines between big cities. It's a cheap way to get trains on branch lines that are fully electric. They charge with a non-live rail at the station at huge rates, so keep going all day then fully charge over night. But running containers of Megapacks in freight carriages does sound a bit silly. However.... putting containers of megapacks on FEMA sites so you can move them to disaster zones, they remain fully charged and are in use in the local area, but then you can send them to any major city at short notice, would be very smart.
@sudeeptaghosh21 сағат бұрын
When trains need to decelerate they can return or store lot of energy back to grid ..
@Athoughtfulatheist20 сағат бұрын
Add a Canadian I can safely say that is not a snowfall. That is a hint of a dusting of snow.
@johnbaker553323 сағат бұрын
32:15 that map of superchargers is over 3 years old. Please remove it from the stock images you use. There are way multiple times more now.
@vinumcopia985017 сағат бұрын
To be fair, Bill Nelson was an astronaut who flew on the space shuttle Columbia.
@BrisbaneTeslaGuy18 сағат бұрын
Survey guy is your best character and most accurate for sure
@gbmoney874618 сағат бұрын
Bill Nelson has been to space as well. Other NASA administrators have been as well. Jared is still an amazing choice though.
@LaszloPappBerlin8 сағат бұрын
Many nice features in the holiday update, however the most important basic and also security relevant missing feature has still not been addressed. Searching waypoints along the route is a good step into the right direction, but it still does not allow for: - searching for charing stations along the route (with a filter for only Supercharger) and be able to add and remove select stations with ease - adding a new waypoint in a logical order along the planned route, instead of stupidly putting them always at the 1st position even if it is the furthest away of all. The right order could be automatically determined by an easy heuristic: take the distance of the waypoints from your current location and put them in order. If the distances between them are dozens / hundreds of km it will just work fine. If they are close to each other, one might need to adjust the order manually. A better, but more compute intense heuristik would be to minimize the aggregated distance or time when touching down on all waypoints in different orders. This basic navigation feature is missing badly and it is also a security relevant issue, since it unnecessarily forces the driver to rearrange the order of the waypoints preventing him from paying attention to the road. But hey, we have new games... 😂
@glenhillier582616 сағат бұрын
The current NASA administrator Bill Nelson was a payload specialist on the Space Shuttle STS-61-C mission in 1986.
@mikelinden21418 сағат бұрын
I know you are big fans of Tesla - I am too - but why does that mean we have to be so hard on other EV companies. Rivian, Lucid, and others are also doing great work and it will take a village to electrify the world. People like options - the more great EVs available the more likely someone will choose one over an ICE vehicle.
@surferdude448714 сағат бұрын
The problem is that Tesla is the only auto manufacturer that is making a profit on their electric vehicles. Yes, choice and competition is good for us consumers, but losing money on every vehicle they sell is not a sustainable business model. Make them better, yes, but also make them at lower cost or you will not be here for long.
@TfGamess4 сағат бұрын
Other companies are ass, that's why. All they do and their "followers" is trash on Tesla, why should we not be hard on them, when they're toxic themselves. Lucid is acting like they got some alien tech, while all they do is sell overpriced cars, with degative 200% margins. Ofc those cars will have more range, when you are not able to scale and the production cost is $350K.
@thebairn3 сағат бұрын
@@surferdude4487 Tesla never had a profitable year until 2020, a full 7 years after the model s was released. Let’s not forget history. I love my Tesla, but rivians are pretty cool too!
@KeithandPamBilyeu5 минут бұрын
@@surferdude4487Tesla was the groundbreaker to start transition…they are profitable becasue they are much further ahead in TIME and commitment to the mission. Many others will reach profitability too with continued progress. Just becasue they are NOT making profit now is NO reason to dismiss them or AX them out…Tesla was at their point many times as well…almost deducts and living on fumes. So…lets keep investing and cheering on other EV makers, for cars, for RV, for Trucks, tor all vehichle types . Tesla can’t build them all.
@EliteAutomation11 сағат бұрын
We are building the automated system to build the seat structure of Lucid gravity. The are definitely engineered well.
@Gamegenio8 сағат бұрын
Drove Boston to Orlando and the superchargers I was routed to were horrible. I also used ABRP. It would have been great to be able to stop in an rivian charging outpost.
@TurdFergusen23 сағат бұрын
I appreciate the free Rivian chargers in Yosemite National Park to charge my Tesla for free
@codacoda56517 сағат бұрын
I'm proud of you guys stepping up to the plate like a true Bostonian. And telling everybody the real deal
@jojetski120 сағат бұрын
Now that Zac redid the credits using code from AI my name has finally appeared. That is awesome!
@engr.scotty23 сағат бұрын
You should not be ridiculing a new supercharger. 32:15 One might be able to drive anywhere along the east or Western coasts but not anywhere in the world. Not even anywhere in the west. That one extra station in Joshua might allow somebody to give up their final gas car. There are places I just cannot visit and get back home without using a level 2 charger and that is in Colorado which has the fifth highest EV adoption rate in the country. Any new NACS station should be celebrated. rivian is allowing us to enjoy our national parks, filling in dead spots, while Tesla is concentrating on populated areas. This does not take away from the fact that Tesla is the best supercharging network in the world.
@tom-kohler22 сағат бұрын
They are mostly against that huuuuuge propaganda for a project that is 0,1% of what Tesla does. We are FOR it! But.. you know.. they act like it's the greatest thing that happened for humanity this year.
@Bryanbkk21 сағат бұрын
A bit of scarcasim to keep the Rivian marketing in check.
@sudeeptaghosh21 сағат бұрын
@@tom-kohlernot even .1%
@frunkytowntesla16 сағат бұрын
wtf are you hating on Rivian so hard? You may not like the way they're doing it, but they are slowly building a brand in a very difficult niche, and they are building their own chargers, helping w/transition to EVs. They may not be doing it the way YOU think they should, but they are working their asses off growing and surviving. Quit hating on another American ev company just because they're not named Tesla, seriously. fwiw, I'm currently driving a new Model 3 LR RWD, my 2nd M3, so I'm a tesla owner too.
@enthusia4922 сағат бұрын
100% Agreed. I get it's "Tesla Time News", but the shit-talk of anything that isn't a Tesla just comes off as really off-putting. I am a MY LR AWD owner myself and own many hundred shares of TSLA. Even Elon said that their goal is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy and electric vehicles, not to "transition the world to Tesla". We should all be supportive of competition in the marketplace, which can only help bring costs down for all.
@vinnyaraujo8817 сағат бұрын
20:10 the seat control is a game changer
@julienlepage585119 сағат бұрын
Was Jesse drunk when using the wiper? lol. 😅
@caiquemoa17 сағат бұрын
Bill Nelson was in space before he was an astronaut before being a congress man
@GuyVardaman21 сағат бұрын
Re: Andrew spotted a cyber cab being delivered in New York. Zac: “ it was delivering itself!” Jesse: “ No, there’s actually a guy in the front seat …” STILL, delivering itself, with a +one! Lol, it’s going to take us a while to get used to the nomenclature of driverless vehicles.
@ScottyDMcom15 сағат бұрын
*Sun Train:* When I see looooong trains filled with coal, I think, "What are the railroads gonna do when demand for coal goes away?" Looks like Sun Train is an answer.
@JimsonsHome4 сағат бұрын
I've been asking for the "battery-% on arrival" feature for over 4 years now THANKS (What took you so long?) Still better late than never :) Gracias
@m.gardner617319 сағат бұрын
Rusty rotors can cause significant braking differential and inconsistency. Especially if you are not ready for it. (In extreme cases)
@jorobash16 сағат бұрын
I appreciate your work but every Lucid news always comes with shade on your side. I know its called “Tesla Times News” but the product that Lucid is trying to launch is on par with any Tesla
@johnodell531014 сағат бұрын
At 2 to 3 times the price!!
@jorobash14 сағат бұрын
@ how quickly people forget what was the pricing when Tesla Started. Not to mention model S and X still have a premium price
@sopiagotim12 сағат бұрын
I was a hospital RN from 1980 to 2022-3, and I finally (unfortunately) saw big corporate thinking take over hospitals. The management focus went from patient care, to control and PR. NURSES should always be in charge of healthcare. Experienced RNs.
@HaticeHatice-rh9tr14 сағат бұрын
Quarden Token has two of the largest Tesla shareholders already; most likely something is coming
@suunraze17 сағат бұрын
Those EPA economy figures are accurate. They redesigned the tests for 2023 to lower the ranges for all EVs, so the Model 3 has a lower rating now. And Lucid and Ioniq 6 are both more energy efficient
@Gaffa300719 сағат бұрын
11th December and all of Australia is waiting still for the Christmas update.
@PlanetEarth314117 сағат бұрын
It takes longer for updates to arrive by boat to Aussie Land. It could fly there on a digital memory stick, but you Aussies would have a large delivery cost. While it's free by the transAtlantic cable it has poor bandwidth and is subject to great white sharks gnawing on the underwater internet cable. 😢😮😊
@gregbailey4515 сағат бұрын
@@PlanetEarth3141hahaha! But now we have a secret workaround. Starlink! Ssh! Don't let the cat out of the bag!
@KenHeslip20 сағат бұрын
Shit on non Tesla time news is getting tedious.
@JEREMIAHWillis-n1c21 сағат бұрын
Once Elon Musk's XAI951x passes $1, it may NEVER see that low again
@DelPhonic118 сағат бұрын
The new NASA administrator is one of the very few nominees that are actually qualified. The rest of the list is pretty much donors, campaign heads and billionaires. Look at the guy to head the FBI if you want to talk about lack of experience.
@ismailnyeyusof352021 сағат бұрын
In the Delaware case it appears the core issue that the judge is harping on is one of misleading shareholder in the whole shareholders voting process. My question is what was needed to ensure no shareholder is misled when voting on what is essentially a big bet corporate gamble with high risks and high rewards? A bet that paid of big for all shareholders who held the stock. I think no shareholder was misled unless he, or she, was clueless about what the voting was really all about which should not be the problem of the company or all the other shareholders. Under these circumstances, the judge defending the right of one shareholder to allege being misled is simply unfair and not justified. It’s like the judge cannot accept Elon winning the bet. The craziest part is paying off the lawyers in which case they would pocket a huge payment that even the same judge cannot agree with! The only explanation for holding such an indefensible position, given the two shareholder vote outcome and the decision to knock down the lawyers huge fee, has to be corruption.
@PlanetEarth314117 сағат бұрын
She is rewarding a firm of lawyers she used to work for. As in the cliche, "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. It's called corruption. The judge is called morally bankrupt,. She should be sued by Elon for billions, if that was possible. Let's see if she "likes taking her own meds." 😳😀🤔👍👌
@surferdude448713 сағат бұрын
Here's the real issue: Preventing a business from conducting its business that is in accordance with the law is, itself an illegal act. Judge McCormack has broken the law with her ruling. She should therefore be disbarred and no longer able to practice law in any capacity. She is playing a very dangerous game.
@jaunleroux358923 сағат бұрын
You chanel is tinting in to a infomercial. To menny ads
@samijokinen92469 сағат бұрын
Your electrical grid system sounds medieval. Just build the wire instead of carrying electricity with a train full of batteries.
@crpunks15 сағат бұрын
Guys, why so much hate on Rivian? What’s wrong with some fancy charging stations and a bit of advertising about it?? Cmon, nothing stops Tesla from advertising their charging locations too
@tslaryrad13 сағат бұрын
Thank you for your commentary and deep dive coverage of Tesla and Elon companies over the years. You and SMR have got me hooked on Tesla coverage and allowed my convenience to go all in on TSLA over 4 yrs ago and now early retirement reality at only 41yrs old. Hope you can make this years Michigan Tesla owners club
@chrisheeley970122 сағат бұрын
Maybe Zach and Jessie should ask Grok if Bill Nelson was an astronaut and then issue a retraction. Tesla Time "News" fail.
@raymondlawson95521 сағат бұрын
Doesn’t meet their bias
@User-actSpacing18 сағат бұрын
34:25 😂😂😂 “Do we have to go back to the moon,,,”
@Ricardo-hp8gj22 сағат бұрын
All Teslas, like all BEVs use no fuel at all. (zero). They run on pure energy. Electric power is energy. Mine run on solar energy when not being Supercharged. There are no "gallons" in electric energy, none, zero.
@thestudiouswolf23 сағат бұрын
Why can't we just turn off regen braking a few days before we take the car in for inspection? Then normal driving will burnish the brakes.
@DouglasJMark19 сағат бұрын
Sounds easier. I've heard if you don't step firmly on the brakes periodically, then you might void your brake warranty or something. 🤔
@RoselleWhitmore21 сағат бұрын
I solely believe XAI951x will do 20x after its launch price, the hype is high and its community are not relenting.
@richinvancouver3100Күн бұрын
Heads up. The current NASA has also been to space on a Shuttle Flight…
@thomaswilliams615516 сағат бұрын
I pull a trailer with my Y and I must use my brakes.
@gregbailey4515 сағат бұрын
Get some trailer brakes. It's also a lot safer.
@johnedwards362119 сағат бұрын
Spotted on Dec 8 -- a Tesla (Y?) Newburyport Police car -- Seems to be the first?
@jamesbruce118323 сағат бұрын
RE Rivian charging outpost - Y'all should be happy more chargers are being built. esp w/NACS
@rlaxton66611 сағат бұрын
Thanks for not crediting my photo of the Dunalley charger! Boo! I was going to prepare a video for you of a recent experience where a Model 3 was cut to pieces as a training exercise for emergency services but bugger that!
@JoelMunoz-s5t14 сағат бұрын
When can we use our android ⌚ watches
@aaronbounds133620 сағат бұрын
31:40 - me thinks you may have missed the point on the Rivian charger. It has always been their goal to put L2 chargers at outdoorsy adventure type locations. They’re doing what they said they said they would do.
@gregbailey4515 сағат бұрын
Just not enough of it...
@Bryanbkk21 сағат бұрын
37:30 huge achievement in AI.
@johnharper943310 сағат бұрын
What a Joke, two guys with beards advertising razors, money over integrity
@VonpatoDrake23 сағат бұрын
Forgot to mention new Lucid has the Tesla (NACS) charge port on the front, so... will be still using two spaces at the Tesla Superchargers ;)
@raymondlawson95520 сағат бұрын
Front left I guess? Get them fake version 4 stalls out won’t matter much.
@demoticshadow249423 сағат бұрын
How do we set the temp for a precondition time?
@gregbailey4516 сағат бұрын
Re brake burnishing. I own a Corolla. As I'm now 77yo, it does not get driven much. Although garaged and out of the weather, I notice that after a few days, and especially in humid or rainy weather, the brakes squeal when I start driving and can be super sensitive to pedal pressure, indicating a buildup of rust. So, when I notice this, I will find an empty patch of road and do a fairly brisk stop from around 70kph once or twice. This stops the squealing a also brings the brake pedal sensitivity back to normal.
@DanFitz77711 сағат бұрын
There is one key location where Rivian has chargers and Tesla does not: Yosemite Valley. It's virtually impossible to road trip around Yosemite in a Tesla without using another charging network But the Rivian chargers there are free (though they're destination chargers), so thank you Rivian!
@OmerMehmet-o6z21 сағат бұрын
Bought XAI951x after watching your video, super excited!
@YungVargo21 сағат бұрын
The potential of XAI951x is unreal! Excited to see where this goes after watching your video!
@ScottyDMcom15 сағат бұрын
Don't know Wawa, but I have heard of Buckee's. There's a new one along I-25 in Colorado near Loveland that's said to have tons of Superchargers. Haven't stopped at a Buckee's yet, but I understand they are a phenomenon in Texas. I'll have to try Buckee's.
@DouglasJMark19 сағат бұрын
Allan (Alan) Great Tesla Tip of the Week on brakes burnishing! 😎🥂🍻
@VilleWitt5 сағат бұрын
Fruble looks awesome!
@jason677815 сағат бұрын
Zack and Jesse, so you have misinformed me and your viewers with your sponsorship announcement. I in fact can not get an extra 5% discount on top of their Black Friday sale discount. That is not the case on their website, it’s one or the other. Please DO NOT announce a sponsorship discount if it is not to be True, please do not mislead you viewers into purchasing if the facts aren’t as you say in your videos and to your viewers, please do your research before you announce to your viewers if the discounts are as you mention. I would appreciate the clarity before clicking on the link.
@MC-bm3cyКүн бұрын
Elon and the New Gilded age....Judge McCormick has precedent.
@gregbailey4515 сағат бұрын
Regarding whom?
@RamiRouhanaКүн бұрын
Jesse sounded canadian with that "Sorry"
@barneygaylord808316 сағат бұрын
On the Sun Train concept, .... you know Texas is on a separate power grid from the rest of the country. The Sun Train could be a means to transport power between the two power grids, in or out of Texas, and it wouldn't have to be moved very far to do that, next time one grids has a serious power shortage.
@pawelglowacki377123 сағат бұрын
9:06 VCM will be also coordinating starlink rollout in Tesla fleet in near future ;)
@KeithandPamBilyeu29 минут бұрын
Pam here …..SHOUT out to Menasha WI school solar program!!
@stoner27th10 сағат бұрын
The dude with 9 shares should pay the lawyers he hired. Why should we pay them?
@Mulderfactoring22 сағат бұрын
Hard to get as excited about Telsa lately... Makes me sad. and delete X... you'll love it. I don't miss ALL the misinformation on X. X has been a Toxic Cesspool of nasty for quite a while now. Feels like a beautiful day ahead, nothing but clear blue skies ahead.
@Bryanbkk21 сағат бұрын
sounds like you might not own enough $TSLA
@raymondlawson95521 сағат бұрын
What does owning Tesla stock have to do with X the next 4chan or rumble you know the places Racist and pedo’s love.
@karla699917 сағат бұрын
@@Bryanbkk You think stock value justifys the manipulation and lies on X? Elon bought the US, you all living there and not beeing a real rich fart, will pay for it. Don‘t be surprised when he and his orange buddy start the horror!
@davidsimoneta851322 сағат бұрын
What about (mobile) microwave transcievers instead of wires?
@techyjames194517 сағат бұрын
Easier than using service mode to Barnish brakes, just turn FSD v12.5.4 .2 let it drive a few lights and brake rotors with be rust free. FSD phantom brakes and late braking at lights will clean them up nicely. LOL
@gregbailey4515 сағат бұрын
Not on V13...
@techyjames194515 сағат бұрын
@ considering only a select few and over 80% of actual paying FSD cars are HW3 that will never get v13 and of the 20% that is AI4 only few chosen cars have v13, and I clearly stated a version that is only on HW3 cars your statement was a total failure.
@RenaeMccaffrey21 сағат бұрын
I love how you broke down the XAI951x project in your video! Can’t wait to see it skyrocket!
@DonnieM-b9p18 сағат бұрын
Your code does not work with the Black Friday code on the ring. But thanks will make a great birthday present for my mother
@PygKLB20 сағат бұрын
It sounds like Zac is pronouncing Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang’s name as “Henson”
@Lkshfglkh2 сағат бұрын
Where is Dojo?
@roger_is_red9 сағат бұрын
"This (ICE) car exudes your own personality, let's everyone know you're a real dickhead." Good one. Jeannine
@sopiagotim12 сағат бұрын
What do administrators produce???
@solarkbike815 сағат бұрын
yeah you can go anywhere on T chargers, but Southwest half of Kansas....., speaking from Wichita.
@JoãoHenriqueVeppo-y1u21 сағат бұрын
You guys are great! Thank you.
@mletouutube18 сағат бұрын
It would be nice to have Tesla charger around Government big park area.
@sopiagotim12 сағат бұрын
Yes, save the parts of the ISS, between all involved countries..
@richardrutledge1433Күн бұрын
??? do tesla owners get fsd rebates for providing fsd data when driving around
@juliahello667323 сағат бұрын
No, if you want are a zero sum gamer you can uncheck the box that allows your car to send data to Tesla.
@alanwardrop957518 сағат бұрын
With the Sun Train I hope they plan to put solar panels on every carriage, and use electric locomotives.
@gregbailey4515 сағат бұрын
Inconsequential!
@puffns21 сағат бұрын
The current NASA Administrator, Bill Nelson, was payload specialist on space shuttle mission 61-C in 1986. You guys should do less comedy and more research.
@Bryanbkk21 сағат бұрын
Nelson opened his trap several times to voice his Musk concerns, meanwhile blowing money on the over-budget Artemis program. Hence the treatment.
@raymondlawson95520 сағат бұрын
So they are biased as Hunter Biden supposedly was in their video lol
@billweberx19 сағат бұрын
@@Bryanbkk Can't completely blame him for Artemis. It was shoved down his throat by Congress.
@notsecure23 сағат бұрын
I can't find any reference to 30k limit on H100 Nvidia chip.
@Thomas_Acharya21 сағат бұрын
19:29 Great idea!
@LoritaSteele-t8q21 сағат бұрын
First Elon bought X and now he launched the XAI951x token this year is crazy
@OWill4018 сағат бұрын
👍 yay! My 6,7, & 8 year old boys keep asking when are we going to get the 2024 Holiday Update!!! Honestly, I want to see the reindeer too! Will it last forever or only a short time before the next update?
@soucyno14 сағат бұрын
How many people will be cut off in these Cybercabs while people are sleeping just because someone is sleeping and someone sees this wants to be a jerk? Maybe quite a few at first?
@whitlockbr22 сағат бұрын
I feel like tunein lost songs...
@DroneManMurphyКүн бұрын
12:14 if they are only having a two seater because they say that 82% of trips are one to two people then what they are actually saying is that about 20% of the rides need more than two seats, which in my opinion justifies bigger interior seating room! 🤷 I don’t think this has been thought out enough by them yet, but I believe before it’s over they will do something to address this because it will be a big problem, especially if somebody orders one and then realizes when it gets there that another person‘s gonna be riding with them or something similar. UPDATE: as others have reminded me, the model Y and other vehicles can fill those larger spots so believe what I was saying is kind of a moot point. 🤷♂️👍
@zerix01Күн бұрын
Multiple cars could show up at once. Put in one order for four people and the appropriate cars show up. Eventually they will likely have a more than two seat Model, but this seems most flexible for a first go at it.
@DroneManMurphyКүн бұрын
@@zerix01Yeah that would be a possible option but it will be an inefficient way to solve a problem for up to 20% of the rides.
@zerix01Күн бұрын
@@DroneManMurphy Upfront cost might negate that. Is it worth designing and producing something for those 20% vs just ramping up scale on one model now and make 100% of the cars cheaper overall? This would only be a temporary thing until the full rollout. No way they just stick to the car and bus long term though.
@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry23 сағат бұрын
Model Y
@juliahello667323 сағат бұрын
Model 3/Y will pick up bigger parties. Robovan will pick up even bigger parties.
@sopiagotim13 сағат бұрын
REMOVE McCormick FROM BEING A JUDGE. She has disqualified herself.
@CharlieGibson-z9k14 сағат бұрын
Quarden Token will go 100x after launch on Binance
@cliffmeima201523 сағат бұрын
The train tracks are steel wires already.
@FELIXRojas-z6c14 сағат бұрын
Quarden Token is easily going to hit $1 this month
@jamiluvvi673621 сағат бұрын
Guys I live in Weston so you are neighbors. I follow you guys and I admire your You tube success. Could we have a little more Walter Cronkite and a little less Jerry Lewis? Your sure love Elon. It’s kinda nauseating honestly. Well at least you are totally transparent about your bias. Drop by the farm sometime. I’ll straighten you out on all Elon’s lies.
@gregfeaga392023 сағат бұрын
Nobody wants new transmission lines taking their land or adjacent to their property. Carroll and Frederick counties in MD are currently going through this process. I would prefer that current right of ways with existing high voltage lines be upgraded to carry more power and improve the grid.
@gregfeaga392023 сағат бұрын
Not sure SunTrain is a viable solution. May be good for temporary projects or disaster recovery scenarios.
@darkhorse694921 сағат бұрын
That train Idea is so dumb and inefficient
@elijahhooste868017 сағат бұрын
Nhtsa says Tesla are the most deadly cars twice as deadly as the best ones