NTSB briefing on DCA crash | Feb. 1, 2025

The NTSB held a briefing Saturday evening to give an update on the investigation to the tragic Flight 5342 crash over the Potomac River.

[@jpdunamislodge]

I appreciate that the NTSB being so open and transparent with the facts that they have this far.

[@markt538]

Those reporters need to learn one very important lesson: HOW TO LISTEN. The CRJ altitude was confirmed. The helo was NOT CONFIRMED. The Blackhawk transponder was not active during this flight so it cannot be immediately confirmed and further scrutiny is necessary.

[@rickbartlett5282]

Nah, that’s not what he said. There was no mention of the Blackhawk transponder, only that Tower radar data showed 200 ft.

[@Heckatomba]

According to Flight24 the Blackhawk Mode-S transponder was active and transmitting altitude data but it did not transmit ADS-B data.

[@Unkownktm]

U right, some of them don’t respect the answers previously given then ask the same questions again. It’s like they on a personal witch-hunt for self gain

[@chriso6042]

@rickbartlett5282 and the tower data is receive from the altimeter which is altered by the barometric setting that should be adjusted before flying. So it's possible the helicopter did not set the barometric setting correctly and were reporting incorrect information to the tower. Atleast that's what I got from listening to pilots talk about it.

[@Heckatomba]

@chriso6042 You are mistanken. The altitude sent via ADS-B and mode-c/mode-s is uncorrected (IE assuming an altimeter setting of 1013hPa/29.92in Hg).

[@lillyling3063]

I appreciate how precise the NTSB is especially with two ongoing accidents.

[@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi]

Rebecca Lobach was a DEI hire for the military. Totally incompetent. Yes the helicopter was at fault, but ATC was negligent as well. It is the sacred responsibility of ATC to maintain separation of air traffic at or around airports, and to issue clearances. The American airlines passenger jet was given clearance to land by ATC, and was on short final with clearance to land. Air traffic control saw that the helicopter was near the runway final approach in the pathway of the passenger jet already cleared to land, BUT ATC FAILED TO INSTRUCT THE HELICOPTER TO STOP, DEVIATE, OR TO HOLD SHORT. In addition, two air traffic controllers were required to be on duty, but only one ATC was on duty at the time of the crash. It was clearly a failure of air traffic control to control air traffic, as one of the causes contributing to the accident, pending further investigation.

[@jbm71]

@@BennettJonWayne-xw9viAbsolutely inappropriate for you to draw that conclusion. Leave it to the investigators.

[@auderus]

@@jbm71 NTSB says they have verified the altitude of the CRJ when the collision occurred with the Black Hawk. They know they collided... BUT they can't be certain what altitude the Black Hawk was at when they collided. Can anyone be this stupid? How could they collide if they were not in the same place, if you know the altitude of one you know the altitude of both. What crazy double speak .... leave it to the investigators OK right it will take them months to say pilot error in the Black Hawk, what every good aviator already knows

[@jbm71]

@@auderus No. No one in the general public, including trained aviators, should be speculating.

[@dgillphotos]

My heart goes out to this guy. He continues to put 120% of himself into this looking for answers and solutions.

[@dutchpilotguy]

As a pilot and ATC, there are some things that are foundational to instrumentation that most simply do not understand. There is a difference between accuracy and precision, and there are reasons why all of these values can be different, and yet lead to a confliction. What is absolutely correct is that both aircraft were at the same absolute altitude above the ground level. What is more challenging to me, is that this type of vertical separation is so implausible as being reasonable to even be called “separation”. The instruction was to pass behind the CRJ, and that was not followed. In time, it is likely to be found that the H60 crew simply saw the wrong airplane, or lost situational awareness having sighted the correct aircraft. In the end, Mr. Inman is someone who I understand deeply. His frustration is something that resonates with me so very much. The blood priority in this industry is appalling, and he’s right, soon, everyone will be gone and they’ll be left trying to find a reason to stop people’s nightmares. But, by then, everyone will have forgotten and moved on to the next “thing”. This event will either change everything or it will change nothing. Based on my experience, the latter is what I predict.

[@rickbartlett5282]

Indeed Dutch, my heart goes out to Member Inman as he is obviously deeply affected by this loss of life, especially having to meet with and try to comfort the families.

[@saul_bloom]

I really like these guys. Very professional, knowledgeable and well spoken.

[@Capdan365]

The scary thing is that landing aircraft at 325 +|- 25 feet and PDA crossing at 200 feet would be considered within normal limits. Pure luck no accidents until now.

[@peterfinucane8122]

Luck or something changed? My concern is there seems to be normalisation or acceptance of risk with conflicting air movements.

[@bromschwig]

Helicopter was too high. End of story. They hit at 325 feet. Helo was supposed to be below 200 feet.

[@corettejones]

Larry Miller, Excellent Recap Without Hyperbole. Thank You! To All Directly (or Indirectly) Effected Family Friends First Responders NTSB Councilors Air Controllers Aircraft Personnel, 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@randysmith4739]

NTSB can be trusted to get to the factual and the truthful answer to what caused this tragic collision. Safety is their primary goal. Prayers go out to all those who lost someone

[@HarryHumphreyHard]

I'm amazed at the transparency

[@GH-oi2jf]

You shouldn't be. The NTSB have always held press presentations early in an investigation at which they release some of the facts that have been determined.

[@OregonShearwater]

Thank you for your heartfelt and honest reporting.

[@dgillphotos]

I am a student pilot. I'll do my best to describe the altitude data sources. I think I;m 90% correct with this - bear with me - Altitude is critical in aviation and it sounds simple but it's not. Each aircraft uses an altimeter which is set to a air pressure. Each aircraft operating around the same airspace will use this same setting. To my understanding, the aircraft's altimeter will send this info to the ADS-B device onboard the aircraft. This in turn sends this same data out to other aircraft, ATC (as ADS-B data) and online. ATC also uses ground based radar which it links to the radar return or blip on the screen of the aircraft. I'm pretty sure they are talking about the difference between these two pieces of data. If the aircraft altimeter is set to another pressure setting, the aircraft could show in cockpit a wrong altitude. Many aircraft are also equipped with a radar altimeter. This would use radar to determine distance from the nearest ground based object. Simple, right? Now, add the helicopter which is equipped with a air pressure based altimeter and most likely a radar altimeter. The tower will then see either a pressure based altitude or radar tower based altitude for the helicopter. The NTSB will then compare these potentially 8 data sources. Again, as a student pilot, this is how I understand this - which is probably accurate - but do more study to verify. The issue is - we are not pilots and the NTSB is discussing an aviation investigation in aviation terms.

[@TobyChampion]

This guy is awesome. He keeps it real. I love how he explained why those ATC interviews take so long.

[@darrenmashl5706]

The ATC staff must be severely affected by this

[@hadrian3487]

When we speak Altitude, their are 2 types indicated in the flightdeck. Radar Altimeter and Barometric Altitude. Radar Altimeter is primarily for CATII/III approaches plus GPWS escapes. Both aircraft baro altimeters must fly on accurate QNH/baro setting. At the time it was 29.91. if the Blackhawk's was wrongly set i.e. 29.81 flying ate 200 ft indicated would be actual 300 ft. Or if the CRJ was 30.01 it would show it's low by 100ft. This is important regarding the investigation.

[@rickbartlett5282]

@@hadrian3487 Also note that the Washington Helicopter Route Chart, which PAT25 presumably was following, specifies all route altitudes as MSL, not AGL or AWL. So, yes, an improper or dissimilar altimeter setting between the two aircraft could introduce some error.

[@HarryHumphreyHard]

@@hadrian3487 ty that's what I was trying to say but everybody was saying all I'm wrong I just didn't know the aviation terms

[@Rynam]

Someone help me ... mmm .. So they said CRJ was 325 +/- 25FT... But then asked if Helicopter was operating witihin the bounds of an approved route / altitude.. but then the investigator said the ceiling of the helicopter was 200Ft. Did I just hear something wrong or does this tell me that the helicopter was in fact NOT within bounds of the approved HELI altitude? Not very versed in airspace control etc.

[@achekholbeckal889]

Flying over water might effect the altimeter reading

[@ShakesSphere]

No, he didn't say within approved altitude...He said, within the "lateral bounds".

[@Rozebunny14]

Hopefully once all data is ready, it will connect all the dots. I thought the CRJ data read about 325 give or take 25 and the heli was at 200 according to tower. If that’s the case, someone had a faulty reading possibly?? Just wondering if I heard right also.

[@rickbartlett5282]

You missed the key word, “lateral”. The briefer indicated that radar data indicated the Blackhawk was within LATERAL limits of Helo Route 4, though he did not specify what those specific limits were. I will note that several posted images online of the radar picture just prior to impact show that the Blackhawk appears to have strayed west toward the center of the river, meaning he would have intersected a lower altitude of the CRJ’s glide path to the runway.

[@Rozebunny14]

@@rickbartlett5282 I did miss that. I went back to listen again. Thank you for pointing that out.

[@sarcasticaification]

So far they have not indicated if the helicopter was intentionally aiming for the plane, or have they ruled that out? It should be taken into consideration, even though suicide is an uncomfortable topic. They aren’t implying the helicopter pulled up 100ft to ensure impact at the last second, but they can’t rule it out, yet, either.

[@debrahange8209]

AMEN SIR

[@harebrain123]

How about we just don’t have them “practicing “ in the helicopters around the airport?

[@lisacepluch1152]

That's what's being brought up now but I would imagine that would be a military decision? Just get any kind of military aircraft exercises completely out of that area.

[@jamesboyer3039]

Seems logical, but for the fact that the military could conduct operations within those parameters. I agree tho. If you are going to practice those operations, use military aircraft at a military facility.

[@DallasNatureLover]

Our military pilots need to be able to operate anywhere in the DC area in case of a national security issue. But agree that the commercial planes and military helicopters should not ever be that close. So seems like the solution, is to either close Washington National or at least stop using runway 33.

[@RobertWeldonIII-o3w]

​@@DallasNatureLoverI saw a military guy who flew for the Army in this same area said that they shuttle back and forth VIP's and many high profile transportation missions within the DC area. He said basically you fly in DC you train in exact conditions you would be dealing with thats why. I'm not a pilot but I'll say something I'm familiar with. There is a difference in practicing football in a walkthrough vs in a full pads contact drill. Batting practice on a batting tee vs live pitching. Kinda like the old Porsche slogan...."Porsche, there is no substitute....

[@DallasNatureLover]

@@RobertWeldonIII-o3w Your first 2 sentences indicate we are in agreement. But I don’t understand your comment about two types of practices in football - military needs to be able to handle that route at night, good weather or bad.

[@elettner]

So, on impact the helicopter was on 325 feet plus or minus 25.

[@DarkElite100]

I wonder if it was possible the Blackhawk's barometer/altimeter was not set correctly, ultimately affecting it's altitude reading and putting it over it's designated ceiling of 200 ft. I suppose the same could be speculated about the CRJ, but ATC is very persistent about ensuring all aircraft on approach have the correct barometer reading.

[@interestingisitnot1]

Why at 8:43: 06 when the crew made initial contact with the tower, why did the air traffic controller ask the crew if they could switch to runway 33? and, what did they discuss?

[@twhelostl61]

At 25:45 A question arose over the runway change. 5342 accepted it. They've confirmed my suspicion. The Helo lost visual separation of the CRJ. JIA 5342 tracked to the east above the interstate. They initiated the turn to RW33 when impact occured.

[@graziflorida4377]

why was the helicopter at that altitude ?!?!

[@reallove5116]

The body language is saying a lot..😢

[@Rozebunny14]

I feel bad for the NTSB having reporters ask the same question over and over again. So this was all just preliminary info. I get what he was trying to say now by listening again. They could’ve done the same later. I wonder, if he could’ve gotten to more questions, if they all would’ve asked the same thing. Could tell he was getting frustrated..Terribly sad💔 So hopefully tomorrow, or in next few days, things will make more sense, once they get all the data in order🙏 Prayers for the NTSB to have what they need to figure this out. And prayers to these families, and all involved in such a tragic loss💔🙏🕊️

[@smacker360]

I was both a military controller and a civilian controller spanning 47 years. I have always believed when military acft operate in civilian airspace they should be required to be on the same frequency. If they're not on the same frequency and not able to hear other acft it is common for both to try and contact ATC at the same time causing a radio block of both acft for the controller. Additionally, hearing the replies of all acft to the controller helps the pilots perception of what is happening around them. A pilot could declare an emergency and if not on the same frequency one of the acft would not initially know until the controller responds as the controller transmits on both uhf and vhf. The altitude data is not necessary IMO, one acft was climbing the other descending so of course they will not be vertically separated at some point. Also, the controller IMO did all he could have done to separate the acft. I believe it is all on the Blackhawk, she observed the wrong acft and never saw the acft pointed out by atc. If she saw the correct acft there's no way she would have been close as wake turbulence is also a factor requiring seperation. The altitude descrepancy is from the refresh rate on the tower's radar, it's always a scan behind.

[@Bestchoice2008]

If the lateral bounds for the black hawk is 200 ft (at the height) and the CRJ was at an altitude of 325 (+/- 25ft) at the time of the crash then common sense says the black hawk was flying out of bounds. For the people saying it’s a DEI issue, the trainee was on the heli with two YT males who had extensive training. How could they not call out that they were flying out of bounds?

[@kathrynvega6317]

They were overwater which can affect the aircraft reading. It seems that from the ATC radar scope was showing the helicopter at 200’

[@rickbartlett5282]

@@Bestchoice2008 again, “lateral” bounds means the horizontal limits of the route, while altitude refers to the vertical limits.

[@HarryHumphreyHard]

@@kathrynvega6317 do you know how many people in this comment section I said I'm totally wrong for stating exactly what you just said

[@kathrynvega6317]

@ because they know everything about nothing. Which most likely also explains why they support Trump.

[@VamosConPoco]

Great info, for sure, brothers haven’t slept in a few days, champions keeping it together. Also tired of the media running wild while they’re dealing with real life. 🖤

[@rebthirteen8012]

I heard the first time what the NTSB spokesperson said. What is wrong with these so called journalists who appear to be goading him for clarification on what he had already stated? Which news agency do they work for? What’s their motive and agenda? Disgusting behaviour from these media personnel. No wonder he had had enough. Respect to him and the families suffering is clearly lacking in msm.

[@marshal7102]

They should NOT even be having drills in that area anyway!!!!!!!!!

[@xenthoughtbrandceo]

I think when I go home I’ll stay off of the GW Bridge. I’m good. Too close to DCA.

[@darrenmashl5706]

This guy feels for the families...You can see that

[@RobertWeldonIII-o3w]

Yes he does

[@chadandrews98]

Holes in the Cheese 1. Busy airport 2. Nighttime 3. Reduced air traffic control staff 4. Hx near misses at this airport 5. Razor thin passage for helicopters under commercial final approach glide slope

[@JeffreyBodenstein]

Crazy how the reporters seem to be very stupid and not get what they hear. As a normie here I get it and they ask the same redundant questions.. Geez people

[@TLCNewsNetwork]

FAA is too proud to listen to the suggestions of NTSB. Look back in the history, how many changes NTSB suggested, but FAA didn't listen

[@schnullerhome5632]

First I like to say thanks to everyone out there ❤😢💔🖤🕯️⭐️🙏

[@rickbartlett5282]

Why can’t we find at least one aviation savvy reporter who can ask an intelligent question at these briefings. This was a disaster as their first briefing with any material info, through no fault of Member Inman. Pete Muntean, where are you?

[@Bestchoice2008]

This sounds like a bunch of issues that contributed to this. There was a discrepancy between the flight data recorder and what the ATC was seeing. The black hawk might have been flying outside of lateral bounds if it hit the plane at the 325 ft altitude. DCA has been having traffic congestion issues it never addressed especially with a restricted airspace (compared to other airports).

[@jayearl9848]

Educating media personnel about aviation is like trying to teach an infant how to drive a car. After repeating the same things 3 different ways, THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

[@6williamson]

designing an airspace to have helicopters route through an approach path of a busy airport is just pure incompetence. Leadership at the FAA will never take responsibility for that, however. They will just blame those who, based on statistical models, are expected to make mistakes and we will continue to have these accidents until leadership takes some responsibility and redesigns the airspace.

[@saul_bloom]

Was the same pilot on PAT11?

[@ShakesSphere]

That's a good question.

[@yanstev]

NTSB should not be briefing the public until it has all the facts, and completed its analysis. Conjecture created by partial release of information is of limited value. The helo blackbox flight recorder should contain both voice and parameters that can determine if instrumentation errors contributed to the accident. Flying VFR, which is common practice, a human pilot is responsible for maintaining safe separation distances and uses instruments/sensors/warning inputs to avoid collisions. For nighttime flying, the pilot is more dependent upon instrument feedback. At this point, the only open questions have to do with helo pilot, his situational awareness, sensor feedback, displays, workload, and control actions leading up to the collision. The NTSB guy talks about a 25 ft elevation uncertainty, due to the height of the CRJ, but didn't add the GPS elevation uncertainty of 15 to 30 feet, plus the height of the helo 17 ft, which would make worse case elevation error of 72 feet. If AGPS is available at the airport and on aircraft, the GPS error is reduced.

[@ckkashala]

Isn’t it still safer to fly than drive ?

[@Unityasoneforever]

THE BLACK HAWK WAS THE GUILTY ONE. PERIODT

[@HarryHumphreyHard]

You don't listen very well the helicopters well within its altitude ceiling of 200 ft it appears the plane had a malfunction of its altitude

[@chriso6042]

​@HarryHumphreyHard you didn't listen at all..

[@Unityasoneforever]

@@chriso6042 exactly

[@Ggggions]

@@HarryHumphreyHardeverything you just said is absolutely wrong

[@jamesboyer3039]

You are correct. Don't listen to these bozos. The aircraft information will be far more precise than a radar signature.

[@cubfan23100]

How could the tower be working off of “low fidelity” altitude readings for the PAT. Horrendous that someone was ok with low-fidelity data being presented to controllers

[@JelMain]

They've been OK with the problems since they started using 33 to relieve 1 a decade back, but the timing problems make that a bad idea.

[@magaareinbredhillbillies]

Simple it's the best congress will spend, they're better, but it's going to cost a lot to upgrade the systems. Right now, we need a tax cut for the rich.

[@henrylee8510]

DEI as President Trump said. Mental unstable, dwarves and handicapped man the tower.

[@_GntlStone_]

Because infrastructure, once implemented, is rarely examined or refreshed until after a catastrophic event, whether it's a bridge failure due to rust, a road that washes away after a hurricane, or a fire that's big enough to overtax the system. And America runs on aging infrastructure that our grandparents and great grandparents built. It's amazing it's still (mostly) functioning as designed.

[@ShakesSphere]

​@@magaareinbredhillbillies do we still have a Congress? (great name btw)

[@seppiluthold5014]

So ATC thought the blackhawk was at 200 feet but it wasnt. Thats really bad.

[@TheCmovius]

Yup; ATC really didn’t know they were on the same altitude and a collision course, so sad 😭

[@michaelmather7352]

​@@TheCmovius exactly that his screen shows they would miss each other .

[@lauramendoza5163]

Even this speaker gives a 100% better presser than orange infant.

[@hbpa215]

Orange man has accomplished more this week than you could dream of doing in your entire miserable wasted life, Laura. You’re a loser. Always were, always will be. 😂

[@jpdunamislodge]

I say let the choppers stay and get two tower controllers

[@graziflorida4377]

What was an helicopter doing at 350 feet ?!?!?!? This incident was 100% evitable.

[@graziflorida4377]

what happened is easy and simple, the black hawk was flying to high. What they are doing here, is try to avoid blaming someone, knowing exactly what happens. When you have 70 death people, there is a lot of money involved, and what they are doing here is juat BUY SOME TIME. They are waiting on a response from the " top" on who to plame. The Private airplane or the Government helicopter. Who will pay the damages ?? This is the real problem !

[@3395149634]

NTSBs job is not to establish fault/blame, it's to be as thorough as possible in figuring out exactly what happened and how to prevent it in the future

[@MartinPeters-h9m]

A chopper lane of this type would never pass a safety case in Australia. Especially at night, especially at 200' and especially so close to final approach of an airport whose movements would exceed those of airports here. Maybe day VMC might get up under strict conditions. When I was learning the ropes, "separation" was beaten into us. Separation standards exist here as they do globally. Vertical, Lateral, Longitudinal, Time, Radar, Runway, Wake Turbulence and..........Visual. Each of the first seven "separation' standards have built in tolerances, that is the essence of "separation." Failure to apply one of these results in an invitation to the manager's office for tea and biscuits and a bollocking. Usually without the tea and biscuits. Visual separation, well that's another subjective issue all together. It's achieved by the tower or the pilot, and there's no proscribed separation standard. The DCA chopper lane has no separation standards. It's lucky to achieve segregation and I gather there's no provision for wake turbulence separation. The tower can't do it because it's subject to distance judgement that does not exist in this case. SO, it's up to the pilot. Assuming he's given the correct traffic information, and it's established he is responsible for visual separation, all is well. If it was up to me, I'd put a paper stop on the chopper.... a clearance limit. In this case Hains Point. If all else fails, he's not proceeding past Hains Point, and the tower can see this and apply their own visual lateral separation.

[@snowboarder107]

This guy is real thirsty

[@didier7868]

"Interesting" (?)... but dangerous

[@drlarcey]

That was all great except I knew the questions were gonna be stupid. Media is just a bunch of weasels. They really aren’t any good questions but just a bunch of busy bodies.

[@Foxxy495]

Playback 1.25!!

[@BennettJonWayne-xw9vi]

Rebecca Lobach was a DEI hire for the military. Totally incompetent. Yes the helicopter was at fault, but ATC was negligent as well. It is the sacred responsibility of ATC to maintain separation of air traffic at or around airports, and to issue clearances. The American airlines passenger jet was given clearance to land by ATC, and was on short final with clearance to land. Air traffic control saw that the helicopter was near the runway final approach in the pathway of the passenger jet already cleared to land, BUT ATC FAILED TO INSTRUCT THE HELICOPTER TO STOP, DEVIATE, OR TO HOLD SHORT. In addition, two air traffic controllers were required to be on duty, but only one ATC was on duty at the time of the crash. It was clearly a failure of air traffic control to control air traffic, as one of the causes contributing to the accident, pending further investigation.

[@Maisiewuppp]

What is it with these idiot journalists? Do they not speak English.? They just want to manipulate people’s words to get a spurious headline. We want facts not speculation. The TV presenter made a good job of bringing the information together without the noise of the very repetitive press questions.

[@darrenmashl5706]

Reporters are dumb