Red meat vs imitation meat, which is healthier? | Dr. Christopher Gardner, PhD

[@yetanotheryoutuber4271]

Most vegans rarely eat plant-based "meats" as compared to omnivores who usually eat meat in every meal. A very important thing to consider.

[@samdaniels2]

For me, I think things like mock-meat are really for vegans who want to replicate their favourite foods; so it makes veganism more accessible. But ultimately, they are still really junk food and should be viewed as such. They are not designed for human health but they are for the animals.

[@spiral-m]

Most is consumed by flexitarians, not vegans - like the researcher said. There are too few vegans to account for those sales. As a vegan, I don't consume them myself and stick to Whole Foods most of the time. The definition of junk can be pretty vague. If it simply means food that causes harm to our health then that would include wholefood, unprocessed animal products above a certain amount just as much as any processed vegan alternatives.

[@samdaniels2]

@@spiral-m I agree, like I say, I think they should be seen the same as junk food. So we can all have cheat days and have comfort food without violating animals rights in the process.

[@gomezfriesen]

I don't crave meat. And this comes from a guy who ate cheeseburgers almost everyday from a teen. Burgers are just the right shape for our mouths to take a bit out of it. I like all sorts of burgers, mushroom, lentil, jack fruit, and tofu based. I think the burgers are for people who eat meat, and to open their minds that burgers can taste the same as what meat eaters think a burger should taste like.

[@VeganV5912]

@@spiral-m Schizophrenia and Toxoplasmosis is animals, 🤪🦠🍖🔴🐈🐮🐷🐔🐣🐟.... Pig, Time-Iapse 🐷🦠🤮 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaWuZH6diLJ7m5Y .. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6Xad3xoZpWgl9k 🤮.. That’s why I’m vegan !!!! No fibre if you eat animals, stays in your body and rots away !!!!!! We’ve got long, long guts. Flat teeth 🦷. LittIe tiny teeth 😬. Moving left and right |-_| .. We are Herbivores. And eating animaIs is pIaque forming, eating corpses. Vegans don’t have plaque, clean and fresh ✅❤️😬😉. Like monkeys and Orangutans and Bonobos and Gorillas ✅❤️😬🐒🐵🦍👫. Gorillas don’t eat animals, 1% cancer in the wild !!! Vegan 4% cancer !!! We choose to be Meat eaters, and get cancer and heart attack and high blood pressure and Alzheimer’s and dementia because fat deposits clog your arteries in your brain in your heart and down there, fIaccid👇you-know-what, eating corpses !!!! And meat eaters, 51% death rate !!!! That is extremely high for a frigging hamburger etc !!!! When you can have vegan hamburgers and vegan chicken and vegan pizza and vegan curry and vegan tacos and vegan burritos etc !!!!! What if it was you, the victim🤥🔴. You wouldn’t do that to your cute little dog😍🤗🐶🤥!!!! Think about the animal, not you, 😢!!!! KZbin delicious vegan food !!! Time to change !!!! Pandemic is animals !!!! KZbin delicious vegan food. Time to stop huuurting animaIs !!!!!....

[@glynemartin]

If you're a vegan, why should the idea of meat in any form be attractive? Meat is not a vegetable. It speaks of an inner denial. No?

[@robertorion6559]

I think people have oversimplified the word "processed" in terms of the food we eat. Unless you are eating a carrot or a cucumber, most things we eat are "processed". The question is not if it is processed, or even how much it is processed, it is what it is processed with that counts. Mixing ingredients such as soybeans with other things such as coconut oil and salt does not make the food bad. Mixing it with artificial colors, flavors, stabilizers, etc.; that is what makes it bad. Beyond Burgers are not processed with things that are bad for you, or made to concentrate out the good parts of a food source and only leave the bad parts. Calling Beyond Burgers "processed" I think is misleading because they are not processed in a way that makes them more unhealthy. I just wish they could find a way to make them without the coconut oil and use an oil that has less saturated fats, then they would be even better!

[@Blurred1-h9f]

Processed vs ultraprocessed. The former is probably less problematic as you can blend oranges to get the juice With the fiber, it would still be processed due to the fiber but still OK I guess

[@sophiekarnak3936]

Another great video - Christopher Gardner is my favorite of all your guests!

[@mayurim9839]

Dr Gardner would be such a good KZbinr!

[@LinusBerglund]

I could listen to this guy talk for ages! And the guy being interviewed is spectacular as well!

[@lilytea3]

0:15: 💡 The video discusses the health effects of imitation meats compared to real meat and the lack of scientific evidence on the topic. 2:26: 📊 The speaker discusses the process of applying for funding from the NIH and the precautions taken to ensure unbiased results in a study. 5:31: 🍔 The video discusses the market approach of plant-based meats as a replacement for red meat. 7:49: 🍔 The study compared the nutritional content of plant-based meat and animal-based meat. 10:27: 🥦 The best way to eat red meat is to be vegetarian first. 13:15: 🎙 The speaker discusses the importance of balancing rigor and generalizability in diet assessment and addresses questions from the public. 16:17: 🌱 The trial suggests a trend towards better performance on the omnivore diet, but it didn't reach statistical significance. Longer trial duration and matching protein across all three diet groups could potentially bring them all to the same level. Recap by Tammy AI

[@nelsonsantos4027]

Public service right here. Thank you Drs. Gil and Christopher.

[@Mrwan13]

Awesome content! You interview the man you does the study! It is difficult to misinterpret the study this way!

[@someguy2135]

If you want to keep the oils to a minimum, consider a different brand of plant based meat than Beyond Meat or Impossible. Those brands are designed to appeal to meat eaters who are used to greasy burgers, etc. I like LightLife, but even they vary from one product and another. Check the nutrition facts. Air frying instead of pan frying could keep your oils needs as low as possible. I like to microwave first, and then use the air fryer to add crispness.

[@broccool2300]

Just fry it in olive oil and you get a better taste and don't have to worry about the oil.

[@someguy2135]

@@broccool2300 Be sure not to reach the "smoke point" when cooking with olive oil. Olive oil is great, but has a lower smoke point than certain other oils.

[@murrayburke7746]

Pan frying in expeller pressed avocado oil would add nutritional benefits. It also has one of the highest smoke points of any oil at about 500°F. It has a milder taste than some olive oils.

[@someguy2135]

@@murrayburke7746 Good advice for most people, but I have gotten so used to low fat foods, that I would find that amount of fat to be unpleasant. I eat Beyond Meat patty sausage, but blot it as much as possible before I eat it.

[@murrayburke7746]

@@someguy2135 I gave up highly processed foods because they are highly inflammatory-I was suffering from metabolic syndrome, NAFLD, obesity and pre-diabetes. My diet now includes unprocessed proteins (beef, salmon, sardines, liver), good fats (omega-3 fatty acids), cruciferous vegetables and low sugar fruits. I learned that not all fats are created equal. EVOO and avocado oil are part of that. I lost 90 pounds and kept it off for two years. Also reversed my pre-diabetes. No drugs, no surgery, walking as my main exercise. Just sticking to non-manufactured food - which may not be for everyone. But it has been right for me.

[@NewEnglandInSeattle]

This makes me feel better about my occasional Beyond Burger.

[@tomflynn3431]

Thank you Dr. Carvalho for making these amazing videos. The expertise you share is invaluable.

[@heidisunshine2003]

Thank you Dr Gil ❤ Great topic… I debate this in my mind during my trips to a grocery store 😊

[@megavegan5791]

I’m sure the intro to this video is making its way through Carnivore bubble world as we speak. Context people, context.

[@phoebegraveyard7225]

When you said it was like dog food all I thought was I love my dog. She eats really well. When I went vegan I made all of the meat in my freezer into dog food by cooking it with oats, barley,spelt , carrots and veggies. It was like stew but mushy. I could have served it safely to guests ( that I didn’t want to come at supper time ever again) I am not a fan of the burgers but I understand their purpose. The best burgers for me are the homemade ones from Dr. Gregory’s cookbook. They are amazing.

[@GreasyFox]

I am amazed that immitation meat has only begun to be the norm in the west where it has been long established as part of the vegan diets in East Asia.

[@pacificislandgirl]

Plant-based imitation meats were on the menu at a local fast food place - aggressively marketed but after the initial rush to taste it - it is now off the menu everywhere.

[@positivedennis]

This is called the fallacy of the false dilemma. Neither could be good, or both could be.

[@dannyspitzer1267]

True, but that's a different issue. The study they are discussing involves one versus the other. Or one relative to the other.

[@Battery-kf4vu]

This imitation meat doesn't seem to be that bad. I think I'd be more worried about the low quality bread that comes with it in a burger.

[@Hanover-ek4jy]

The fake meat is loaded with chemicals!

[@jaym9846]

Shame on National Institutes of Health (NIH) for not funding studies that are pertinent to taxpayers.

[@salvadorpalma8173]

Olá Gil. O teu canal está cada vez melhor. Esta entrevista foi espetacular.

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

obrigado!!! :)

[@Amy-tl2xe]

Gil, you are terrific - so happy about your channel. Everyone in my family LOVES Impossible Burgers - prefers them to real burgers. However, we have often wondered whether they are good or bad for us - because they are SO processed and have a lot of coconut oil. I wish he had tested that brand, because we do wonder how it affects our gut microbiome to eat them. I will say we eat them as an occasional treat since we really don't know how good or bad they are for us.

[@someguy2135]

WFPB>Impossible burgers>ground beef burgers. (Read "greater than")

[@jassy0903]

My favorite episode yet! He is a delight! I'm looking at his other research now and will keep in mind for my nutrition studies. Thanks!

[@cathcort1]

I so appreciate your clear delivery and research on 'research'. Thank you!

[@JohnSlack89]

Can you please do a video on TMAO? I had heard this "risk factor" is actually a red herring because the highest amount is in fish and there's been no correlation with eating fish and negative health outcomes.

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

Although I never found that particular argument very convincing (theoretically, fish could have other things that offset the harm. also idk if the TMAO form fish raises TMAO blood level. normally TMAO is converted in the liver from precursors), from the available evidence I suspect TMAO is just a marker but doesn't actually raise risk itself. the genetic study shown on screen was one argument in that direction and actually another one just came a week or 2 ago pointing in the same direction

[@spiral-m]

"there's been no correlation with eating fish and negative health outcomes" it will be interesting to see how that pans out with increasing heavy metals and microplastics eaten by fish. Also farmed fish is full of antibiotics, and other chemicals so potentially more antibiotic resistance and add in collapse of the world's fisheries and what impact that will have on people's health... An ethical side-note: a huge amount of suffering is involved in the fish-industry and bycatch of dolphins, sharks etc is huge. I recommend watching "Seaspiracy" for a take on all of this.

[@gavtex1065]

@@NutritionMadeSimple demonising carnitine and choline makes no sense to me and seems excessively myopic considering demonstrated BENEFITS of those nutrients. I agree that blood levels of TMAO is more likely a marker of something like insulin resistance and / or microbiome issues, rather than causal. There are plenty of examples of humans consuming huge amounts of these 2 nutrients with no issues with TMAO or ensuing supposed consequences, and clearly as per the fish example, consumption of TMAO itself is also not an issue. Making it yourself is apparently the issue and I’m not sure researchers are motivated enough to look further into the ‘why’ that is happening as many of the researchers looking into this are looking for something to point at ‘MEAT BAD’ IMO and may lose motivation in this area as time goes on and focus on another molecule that may be promising or more interesting to illustrate their belief. Forgive my pessimism, but the nutrition world is very clearly over populated by ideologues, rather than open minded ‘scientists’ looking for genuine truth.

[@carter5548]

I'm happy to hear this. I've been a vegetarian since I was 10 (mostly for ethical reasons) and I eat a lot of fake meat products due to convenience. I know real food is better but at least this isn't bad.

[@Siegfried5846]

Look up Dr. John McDougall. He has some easy recipes on his website. Don't be afraid of sugar and salt! They're a good compromise to get fantastic tasting vegan food.

[@nickelplatefitness]

Curious whether the weight loss was result of loss in body fat, muscle, or a combination.

[@RogerHyam]

Thanks Gill. A good one. Having been veggie for 35+ years the thing that bugs me is that the section of the supermarket that used to have basic frozen veggie burgers and sausages has exploded into real junk food with this craze for more "plant based meats" i.e. wrapped in breadcrumbs or batter or pastry etc etc. It really feels disappointing because what was a neutral inclusion in a healthy diet feels like it is becoming junk for the uninformed.

[@IrnBruNYC]

Wow, more videos with Dr. Gardner please. I am not the target audience of Beyond or Impossible, as I am a fairly recent vegan, but I do eat a LOT of their products. They are “vegan training wheels.”

[@triptripp1873]

Hello fellow vegan! Yeah I also eat some beyond here and there, but I am trying to get healthier alternatives to all kinds of substitutions, and look at the data behind them

[@judylloyd7901]

Vegan training wheels is a great analogy 😀 😄

[@jeffreywp]

Thanks SO much for posting this. I had submitted a request a while back asking about this type of research. What would be interesting for me is if they only used Beyond Meat or if they also included products from supplies such as Gardein which uses a different type of mock-meat which focuses on soy protein isolate and vital wheat gluten. I don't prefer Beyond or Impossible. If I'm craving a burger at home I'll usually cook up one or two 365 Plant-based Burger (Smoky + Spicy). It's taste is very similar to Beyond but with no saturated fat and less sodium. I'd be curious if the second study you highlighted used only Beyond products or if they incorporated other mock-meat options from different companies. There are loads of them available. Curious where this research goes. I'm hopeful for more answers in the near future. Appreciate you, once again, for looking into this, Dr. C!

[@suighrafa]

Great interview, thanks! I think we need to be more specific about "processed" food, this name is too generic, what kind of process? Maybe different precesses will lead to different results.

[@macul4045]

My wife makes my 'burgers' from mostly organic black beans, followed with bread crumbs, flax, and several spices. If a real burger's taste (from what I remember) were a 10, I'd put my black bean burger at an 8... I'm super happy with that... Thanks for the vid, Doc. Good stuff!

[@almoncashews]

It might taste good but black beans taste nothing like meat. Have a burger and you will be blown away by the difference.

[@scienceislove2014]

​​@@almoncashews that's why he said 8..sometimes we just don't want it to taste anything like meat . I love bland food.. not that i haven't had flavourful stuff.. i just like it bland.. I ate meat before but went vegan for animals.. no animal deserve to be killled for my taste buds.. i felt really guilty and that was least i could do for em

[@Dabs_kitchen]

Should have compared it to the meat people are actually eating …. Which would be conventionally farmed meat …. Not grass fed organic pasteurized 😂😂😂😂 so the results would actually be a little different making the plant based meat look even better ! Thanks for the video my ninja 🥷 keep up the great work

[@robz.3225]

Agree

[@Dabs_kitchen]

@@robz.3225 although I am glad they did do this study as well considering meat can’t get much better 😂

[@jeffreyjohnson7359]

Gil has said in some other videos that the limited data in grass fed meat doesn't seem to show much or any difference.

[@mariaespiritu9512]

I’ve seen carnivore and Keto folks, with their grass fed organic meats, still posting on forums questions like why won’t their blood pressure go down, and asking if an eGFR less than 90 or 60, okay and a host of other problems that any doctor would’ve predicted.

[@mariaespiritu9512]

@@DustyFC any keto or carnivore chat where people post their problems. On fb or insta. They have a lot of problems. Curious, what’s your BP and health stats? I’ve been on a Whole Foods plant based diet, since October 2022. I’m 5’7”, 44 yrs old, was 209 lbs, BP of 155/80, and LDL in the 150s, resting heart rate in the 70s. This morning I weigh 168 lbs, BP 105/55, resting heart rate 58, LDL cholesterol down to 66, total cholesterol 137; No medications. I run and lift daily.I’m back at the gym like in my gym rat days in my 20s and 30s. I’m dead lifting more than my body weight. On the leg press, I pressed 270 lbs yesterday. And I look younger than I did in this profile picture (where I’m 33). So it’s been working for me. How’s your diet/lifestyle working for you?

[@artvsmachine]

Might have been easy to additionally just give them a questionnaire about whether they preferred eating the plant or meat burgers, as in terms of taste, texture, enjoyment. Just would be curious what they found. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

[@00bikeboy]

Thank you, always very informative and interesting.

[@gomezfriesen]

Thanks for this video! I have been interested in how mainstream media seems to have made non vegans veiw plant based burgers as "bad" or "a lot worse" than meat, because it's processed. I will be able to point my interactions with people who claim that, to this study. Thanks again!

[@andrewcavanagh3946]

This is similar to the argument about which is better, butter or margarine? Imitation meat is a processed food. You can make a healthy burger with beans, onions etc. You don't need to eat a processed food. Meat burgers are usually processed meat...and there is solid evidence that processed meat is carcinogenic. The answer is you should minimize eating both or not eat them at all.

[@MichaelGGarry]

But bean burgers taste like crap. Its fine to have a burger every now and again, just don't overdo it. Like everything.

[@RawandCookedVegan]

Excellent video.

[@toxx1220]

super interesting, thanks for sharing and bringing Dr Gardner on!

[@lkelly4337]

Your best video ever. Fun to watch and educational too.

[@Michelleamicheal]

I hope that you continue to follow the TMAO research. I have read that it is a pathway leading to cancer and aging and that longevity may be enhanced by inhibiting it. I would love to know more!

[@klila16]

It’s great for Hindus who avoid beef. So we eat that. I was vegetarian up until recently (35 years) and I didn’t really grow up eating this stuff but I think it’s better if you are vegetarian or vegan because you need access to nutrient dense plant proteins. I feel a lot better now but I can’t find science to explain why. Definitely still eat mostly vegetarian foods. So good to know occasional meat for a vegetarian is probably a sustainable model. Already had obesity and blood pressure as a vegetarian. I know so many vegetarians who struggle. And I like to think I eat healthy, I eat a variety of low sugar berries daily, lots of vegetables, olive oil. But hey also lots of dairy and butter to compensate. I find a real difference between animal products and vegan products because I never had access to any animal product other than meat. It’s a niche and maybe we won’t have real data on that until there are large populations of born vegetarians in the west.

[@johndoe9362]

100% vegan here. I eat 20 servings of fruits and vegetables daily. Maybe once a month I eat fake meat. The ones I buy have 2 grams of total fat, 0 grams of saturated fat per patty.

[@markmilenkovic1745]

I’ve been putting off watching this video because I want to believe that good quality animal whole food is better for overall health than something as processed as a fake meat substitute. But I like data and it’s hard to ignore the mounting evidence. Damn you science!! The journey for me is small changes. Moving toward grains and legumes, slowly replacing my meat intake. Fake meat isn’t for me, but, I think it has a place Another great video

[@SuzanaMantovaniCerqueira]

At the end the real thing is : eat variety, everything that is real, safe and healthy . We can have better processed food with healthy ingredients. Adapt to your personal demand and requirements. Control , reducing to minimum or avoid whatever increase low inflammation, damage your vascular system, increase glycemic and insulin levels, and compromise gut microbiome. Remind people there is a huge diference in metabolism among balanced and complex meals or eat single food once or multiples times a day. Stress lead metabolic / catabolic responses as well. Presence of genetic issues affecting the lipids and sugar metabolic responses too. Important people understand and stablishe that what is real harmful for one cannot be for others, in reason or multiples disbalance of each person.

[@lanenelson8040]

lets not forget that all nutrition originates in plants, therefore, the end product of meat is literally processed plants lmao

[@mariaespiritu9512]

Lol, great point

[@johncalla2151]

Which is part of the reason why they're so healthy.

[@DividendsMaster]

So if I eat meat, i'm vegetarian😂😂😂😂 , Let's goooo

[@lanenelson8040]

@@DividendsMaster no you'd be a meat eater

[@triptripp1873]

Haha the begining got me! But then at 2:05 I understood the context behind the "dog food vs plant meats" sentence. Clever cleverrrrrrr

[@joshwong800]

Great news to hear and have more ethical eating becoming more easily accessible to transition to. Keep on moving towards a Vegan world for the animals 🤠

[@joshwong800]

@@demoskunk what's the agument for your claim?

[@joshwong800]

@@demoskunk your failing to factor in that the majority of crops are grown to feed the animals being exploited and killed against their will. Humane means to treat with compassion and benevolence so murdering someone cannot ever be humane. Studies have already shown that there are less crop deaths than in slaughter deaths if you look at 'Our World In data'

[@joshwong800]

@@demoskunk it's a tragedy yes, similar to road fatalities yet we all still risk driving to have a society that can thrive , but crop deaths do not entail rights violations and as Vegans we work to also reduce collateral damage that occurs with systems such as vertical farming and veganic farming with more solutions to come in the future. Note that most crop farmers are also not yet Vegan so don't even consider the crop deaths, not to mention the slaughter deaths.

[@joshwong800]

@@demoskunk you forget that you are judging the animals, so is it humane to rape a female to use her baby for ther flesh and secretions? You are just appealing to a 'nirvana' fallacy without considering that we do not need to exploit someone to have an "optimum" diet and if you have done rigorous research you would be aware that Vegans have lower rates of disease compared to omnivores, waste far less resources and contribute to far less emissions (supported by the biggest study on farms worldwide, Poore and Nemek) and care about animals intrinsic rights to life.

[@georgef.7434]

My only concern with plant based meats, are what in the world are they putting in them, to make them imitate the taste of meat ?????

[@megavegan5791]

It’s the bun’s fault! 😂😂😂

[@karlstenator]

Excellent watch, thanks for sharing!

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

This was really interesting, thanks Gil and Chris

[@donwinston]

It is silly to vilify all “processed” foods. Technology can be used to increase nutrition as well as make it cheaper and taste better.

[@donwinston]

There’s no evidence whatsoever that canola oil is unhealthy other than it’s 120 calories per table spoon.

[@pmacca01]

I tend to get migraines when I eat the processed . meat. I don't know why. But as was stated, these processed meats are for meat eaters, not vegetarians. What's frustrating as someone who loves vegetarian food is that many restaurants have replaced their bean burger vegetarian options with beyond meat options

[@Joseph1NJ]

"the Plant products improved several cardiovascular disease risk factors, including TMAO" Did I miss it, what were the "several CVD risk factors" other than TMAO?

[@mariaespiritu9512]

I’m assuming blood pressure and ldl cholesterol

[@johncalla2151]

Since blood pressure was the same, I would assume just LDL-C. But this could simply be explained by the higher fiber intake or the negative calorie balance.

[@Joseph1NJ]

@@johncalla2151 I did miss it, and you are correct: Mean ± SEM LDL-cholesterol concentrations (109.9 ± 4.5 compared with 120.7 ± 4.5 mg/dL, P = 0.002)

[@donwinston]

I’d eat these foods but they put palm oil or coconut oil in it. Why not canola oil?

[@JustanOd]

Well, I suppose the tropical oils provide a favorable consistency and texture. And palm oil is particularly cheap. Where would Nutella and creamy peanut butter be without palm oil? Personally, eating palm oil causes me to develop styes, and I avoid it at all costs whereas I find coconut oil to be tolerable. Canola, too, is fine.

[@IbidemTV]

Hi Gil, Is there any danger when you cook/boil rice in plastic bags vs regular loose rice?

[@markburnham7512]

I continue to eat a whole food diet, with priority on protein and low carb, and take my chances. For me the rest is noise.

[@PsychedelicGoo]

Here's a weird question for you guys. A lot of meat eaters would also describe themselves as animal lovers. Is there an effect on your health if your eating habits are more aligned with your ethics? So less cognitive dissonance? I went for quite a while as a fish eater and my family were fully vegan. I always felt a little guilt when eating the fish. I wonder if that would effect my digestion or health in general. I know, it's a stupid question. But in interesting stupid question ❓

[@MeredithDomzalski]

Were they including oils in the WFPB diet? I know some exclude oils on that diet.

[@arvidlystnur4827]

Very interesting. I used to eat some meat and lots of fish but because of my understanding, correct or not, of heat healthy nutrition, I never eat meat, seldom dairy or cheese and I'm on hold with fish. I eat a plant based diet in which I get my protein from beans, grain, nuts and plant protein powder which blends many different plant proteins to assure a powerful balance of aminos. I'm surprised those fake meats did as well as they did , as their ingredients suck in my opinion. It would be interesting to do this study again with good quality plant protein. Perhaps this study shows the superiority of plant based diet by comparing a poor excuse for a plant based diet against an atypical meat diet. EDIT: I entered this comment after the Gardner interview but before it ended, possibly my points were covered.

[@WeissM89]

1:40 But I thought dog food was natural! 😱 That's what people usually say when I they hear/read I give my dogs plant-based food. Now dog food is ultra processed? Make up your minds 🙄

[@nwabuonye4987]

Eat fibre with red meat.

[@vividgreenvegan9286]

This is SO interesting!!!!! Thank you!

[@CharlieFader]

Great video, but what about the findings of this analysis? "Assessing the effects of alternative plant-based meats v. animal meats on biomarkers of inflammation: a secondary analysis of the SWAP-MEAT randomized crossover trial"

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

yeah no big difference in inflammatory markers btw the 2. it's interesting to test, because the main trigger of inflammation is weight gain, with ultraprocessed foods also suggested to play some role. the imitation meats are processed, OTOH they led to a (small) weight loss. I guess overall it's not surprising that the effect in inflammatory markers was mild if any

[@CharlieFader]

@@NutritionMadeSimple thank you for the response. The abstract claims that the results were contrary to their hypothesis, so they were expecting less inflammation from the plant based meats. That was their expectation because of the lower TMAO, LDL and weight already observed from the main analysis? They got no statistically significant results for most inflammation markers, but 4 were worse from the plant based meats. What could explain these results?

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

@@CharlieFader not sure why they expected the opposite. seems unpredictable to me. I think 2 were higher in the plant group and 2 in both the plant and animal group but none were different between treatment groups. 1 thing to bear in mind is a correction for multiple comparisons like Bonferroni, can´t recall if they used that. also checking which if any are clinically relevant, depending on magnitude of change. will be interesting to see if inflammatory changes are confirmed in the future. neither outcome (imitation>meat or imitation

[@CharlieFader]

@@NutritionMadeSimple so, from all the findings, the most clinically relevant seems to be the lower LDL from the plant based meats? Thanks again!

[@Innocence44]

would the 1.6g/kg of bodyweight metric still apply to someone who resistance trains if they supplemented with Leucine?

Couldn't the weight loss/gain for plant-based/red meat be attributed to creatine-induced water weight in muscles? I need to take a look at the study, if they just measured weight or did the whole body comp measurements shebang.

[@hisairness28]

Can't believe this is a topic, is processed food as healthy as whole food.

[@WinterGK]

When most people think organic pasture raised meat is much healthier than processed plants, than its important to show them the data which shows that the mock meat is actually healthier. I have a feeling this is gonna be like Soy milk all over again. Soy has been showing better health data for decades compared to cow milk, but people still think cow milk is better based on fear mongering from the dairy industry.

[@johncalla2151]

@@WinterGK Is there a "soy industry" out there?

[@WinterGK]

@@johncalla2151 Probably. It is one of the most popular animal feeds and also popular in general in Asia etc Soy Milk never gained traction in western countries because the competing market keeps telling people soy has harmful phytoestrogens, which in all studies is shown to mostly just block actual estrogen and lower risk of certain cancers. I am guessing that mock meat will also be demonized by people that don't look at actual science and key words like "processed" is gonna help them decide the healthier choice is wrong

[@WinterGK]

@@фанатКуплинова-ь1е We have multiple types of studies. Animal studies, epidemiological studies, and controlled studies etc. All of these types of studies can have different criteria and size etc The important thing to learn, is to see The Totality of evidence and not always look at isolated outlier studies. The WTO catagorized Red meat as a Class 2 carcinogen after reviewing over 8500 quality studies and using different teams from different countries to avoid bias.

[@marcelotemer]

Would love to know the numbers (ldl-c etc)

[@bedtimestory1318]

Thank you for your service.

[@oksanakaido8437]

The weight loss result (1-2 lbs after 8 weeks) didn't seem that significant to me? I weigh myself weekly and know I can easily fluctuate by more than that amount week to week. Interesting study, though! I always thought all the oils in processed vegan foods would make it more unhealthy than the study indicates.

[@Mrwan13]

Can you PLEASE do a video on TMA & TMAO. Is it true you can smell it in your urine?

[@stellasternchen]

I tried some alternatives made out of beans, and I liked them. But I was afraid about them being unhealthy due to the added flavours and processing. So this is good news then.

[@aufkeinsten7883]

Content great as ever :)

[@roberttowner6326]

Best channel

[@littlemswolf]

Can you please check the link to the imitation meat video. Thank you.

[@rdmckeever7645]

The SWAP-MEAT study idea was pretty cool but did not control for total fiber intake (as shown in figure 2 of the Pub Med link). The meat substitute diet provided additional fiber; a 5.6g per day difference in fiber would influence both LDL and weight outcomes. Without supplementing some neutral fiber source to balance the diets, the results are ..., well, we need another study with fiber intake in balance...

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@GL0580 Exactly.

[@CristelleFerreira]

@@GL0580 Aren't these plant burgers processed with added B12, a health benefit only found in meat? These plant-based substitutes come loaded with added nutrients... that's an activated cheat mode. Yet, adding a few grams of fiber to a meat burger diet would be inconceivable? This study is just poorly designed in this regard. We already know that fiber plays a key role in health. Now we won't know for sure if ultra-processing is health detrimental, and to which extent.

[@MichaelGGarry]

@@CristelleFerreira What nonsense. The study is comparing one thing against another AS SOLD. Those additives in the fake meat are by default, not added to the study.

[@CristelleFerreira]

​@@GL0580 ​ Wow. Yes, I am serious, even more so when I read so much disinformation. "Vitamin B12 is synthesized only by certain bacteria and archaeon, but not by plants. [...] Ruminants acquire the essential B12 through a symbiotic relationship with bacteria inside the body. Thus, we also depend on B12-producing bacteria located in ruminant stomachs. " pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29216732/ B12 found in most plants is an analog. So you tell me there is b12 in soil? Do you eat soil for breakfast? Are you equipped with a polygastric digestive system and all the necessary bacteria inside it to synthesize B12, like ruminants? And yes, you're right: the only non-animal B12 we can assimilate is from some specific algae. Do you eat these algae for dinner? Conclusion: no specific bacteria, no B12. Soil, or not. There is no direct link between soil and B12 (hello algae!). There is one between that specific bateria and B12. Please don't lecture me about industrialized food processes. I moved to the countryside where I grow most of the plants I eat and where I easily find meat from animals that graze all year round. They don't need synthetic b12 shots. I'm lucky I live in a country where there's no feed lots. I don't live in the US, so your perception of reality is not mine. I used to be vegan for 2 years, so I know your arguments all too well. That's funny because 10 years later, they're still the same. This experience also gave me the time to learn about B12, since I had to *supplement*. I suggest you do the same since your knowledge seems to rely on beliefs. Veganism is a strong belief system when we consider it from an ethical standpoint. Please don't defend it with pseudo truths: it does no help the cause (yes, I'm still sympathetic to it).

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

Wait, what is wrong with dog food? My pet demands an answer!🤨

[@Talkative_trees]

Its not an animal and thats all that matters imo

[@IamJonsCranium]

In regard to the weight loss, 1. What was the calorie difference between red meat and imitation? 2. What tissue type was lost? Fat or muscle? I would be more concerned about muscle loss than TMAO. My takeaway remains the same as with every video like this. Eat both red meat AND lots of high fiber vegetables.

[@scorpfelidae2439]

that figure of protein to KG weight - is that real weight or ideal weight ?

[@broccool2300]

What about the cost? Which one is cheaper?

[@davetorres3758]

So the question of which is healthier is inconclusive?

[@WinterGK]

1/3 people die from heart disease and red meat contributes to the worlds nr.1 killer. Mock meat does not. Unrelated to this study. The World Health Organization categorises red meat as a Class 2 carcinogen. The majority of evidence points towards red meat contributing to cancer but its not fully proven like with processed meat.

[@armwrestling_nerd]

Maybe long term plant based diets may have advantages in compounding ways ?

[@carinaekstrom1]

What did Dr. Gardner mean in the start when he said diet changes plateau after 2 weeks? I thought changes could happen gradually over a longer time.

[@helios4425]

That is very misleading because it's one factor. Think about it. If a person starts to gain body fat because they overate. Is it the diet that changed the blood markers or the overeating.

[@JRP3]

He was saying that most dietary changes show up in blood markers after about 2 weeks and will not change beyond that with more time.

[@DM-ql6ps]

He didn't say that they plateaued. He said they become apparent in blood test results after 2 weeks. They can continue to make effects after that but first effects will be readily apparent after two weeks. So nutrition studies need to be at least 2 weeks, but longer is better.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@DM-ql6ps He did say the bloodmarkers would plateau after two weeks, though. At 5:00 minutes.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@JRP3 Yes, that's strange to me. Maybe a few certain blood markers.

[@nonewherelistens1906]

Very good interview. The mock meats are also a way for people to transition to a whole food, plant-based diet. Much better for the planet, too.

[@JoelSantos-lk9tu]

Packet meat burgers or mince meat are also highly processed.

[@enabl3r]

I actually don’t think it’s silly at all that he says to “be vegetarian first, then eat red meat.” Perhaps this hypothesizes the best solution for those that aren’t comfortable going entirely vegetarian or vegan. Meaning, if someone does 80/20 vegan, that perhaps a small amount of high quality red meat/fish/poultry in the HFPB diet, will then NOT raise TMAO given that vegan template underneath. Maybe this explains how in the Blue Zones-such as Okinawans, Hunzas, Sardinians, etc.- can get away with small amounts of animal products! In very small amounts, maybe there’s a synergistic effect?

[@PigsDream]

Great video.

[@rhdsyay]

what about the bio availability argument? I often hear that plant based foods while they contain all of the nutrition on label, human body wont absorb it as well as meat.

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

see our protein series, covers this Q in detail

[@MauricioLoboo]

I was waiting for your video this morning. I’m a rude fan and can’t wait for one day to have the chance to record with you. I would like to invite u sir to participate in one my nutrition videos as a interview. I know I just started, but if you have interested?

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

hi, shoot me a msg on the FB group. tks

[@batshivamoosha7940]

NOTHING IMITATION CAN BE GOOD FOR YOU.

[@Alex-ky4cd]

non-alcoholic imitation beer or spirits? horseradish-based imitation wasabi? egg replacers?

[@MichaelGGarry]

What laughable nonsense.

[@gnoahdrake]

people are so brainwashed nowadays. they lose their common senses.

[@HuckleberryHim]

Imitation pork made from jackfruit, literally a fruit? Meat made from seitan or tofu, used for centuries if not millennia? Meat made from just a single king oyster mushroom? "Imitation" is just a word about the human intention behind the food. It isn't a secret illuminati ingredient.

[@JustanOd]

I knew TMAO would remain low in the vegan to omnivore crossover arm, because I've read Dr. Greger's books. I'm surprised this was news to this food research expert.

[@RichRich1955]

Beyond Meat burger leaves a nasty smell in the kitchen after cooking it

[@robz.3225]

If I’m going to lower myself, I go Impossible

[@aureliaglenn2220]

I'd suggest the Gardein brand veggie burger (but not its Impossible/Beyond clone, which has 80 more calories than its regular veggie burger) if you're gonna eat fake meat.

[@ryanisber2353]

He seems like such a sweet guy

[@Trenchant468]

Well. Can eat red meat for 8 weeks after being veg. Then what happens?

[@shaystern2453]

interesting. I consume veggie burgs and lightlife and rarely the hi cal ones like beyond and impossible. I do it for the lack of cholesterol.

[@brucejensen3081]

What about the plant plus offal group

[@adamk7665]

I used to enjoy the Beyond Meat burgers. I bought a package every week or so. They taste pretty decent straight off the grill if you season them correctly but reheating them as leftovers is a whole other experience. They don't keep well in the fridge and they're somewhat repulsive when you reheat them. My history with Beyond Burgers resembles the stock price of Beyond Meat at large: initially a somewhat interesting purchase in 2020 and 2021 that steadily wanted and disappeared a couple years later. I don't think I'll ever buy them again, to be honest. I'll focus primarily on fresh, sustainably caught fish and seafood and I'm even interested in learning some Asian dishes utilizing the full potential of tofu.

[@vaska1999]

We should always make our nutritional choices based on our specific health status. Unlike fresh (not aged) flash-frozen meat, poultry and fish, which are well tolerated by people with histamine intolerance, all processed foods tend to aggravate the condition quite seriously because of the types of plant material and oils used in them. For someone like me,who developed histamine intolerance about 6 months ago (it's pretty debilitating at this level of intensity), the risk of making things worse than they already are is simply not worth it.

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

at some point we'll try to make content on histamine intolerances