Octave Studio cables

[@ptg01]

My experience is cables DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE makes a difference but at what cost..... Law of Diminishing Returns at work here...

[@djwolffe_OG]

They make a difference to my wallet

[@ChadHargis]

Mogami is very good quality cable. I use it in my home recording mixer. My XLR cables going to my monitors are Mogami. But what makes a bigger difference than the cable? Everything else. Where my head is when listening. What effects I'm using on my pedalboard. Gain structure. Etc. Good quality cables matter because they hold up better and are well shielded. But as with anything, garbage in equals garbage out. You can't improve your sound with good cables, but you can make it worse with bad ones.

[@marshall2.015]

I have an AudioQuest power cable that I use on my stereo amp. I tried using it on my tube guitar amp and it sounded thin. There was too much brightness and the distortion got weak.

[@derekashenden9789]

I always wonder why the internal wires inside a speaker are always thin

[@spacemissing]

They are cheaper than heavy ones! And, in reality, their resistance is minimal. There are a few speakers that have been made with heavy internal wiring. I don't remember what brand I found that in. But here's the kicker: It was poorly connected and poorly soldered, greatly compromising its potential benefits.

[@deesley90]

Ramble on Paul. We all like to listen.😊

Wouldn’t you be able to mic a speaker playing a song to get a stable source?

[@thomprd]

You’re recording an instrument, so the only interesting source is the instrument you’re recording. You might need some experience doing live sound or live recording to better understand.

[@benwu7980]

@@thomprd You are 100% correct regarding the instrument or vocalist being the focus. In some cases are recording speakers such as a guitar amp, for which it would be possible to send it a recording. For the kind of Octave setup though they really are setting the bar a whole lot higher with acoustic instruments and using a recording through speakers/monitors for fine tuning mic type and placements would be just introducing way more issues than it could ever hope to solve. I'd guess their drums or piano have fairly fixed in place mics, and mostly for the vocal, strings or wind but 'one size fits all' for each artist or player style isn't what they are about.

[@tubefreeeasy]

You should use silver cables strategically.

[@philippebertrand3820]

I sometimes use XLR Mogami Gold studio to connect my dac to my integrated. Do they sound as good as my 1,5-2K Cardas and Luna? No, but they are amazing for the price.

[@SuperMcgenius]

Mogami, Canarie and bilden cables all do well when compaired to many hi-end cables. There are a few other considerations, durability these cables lead a harsh life , ease of termination, as there are hundreds and of course, cost, thousands of feet of cable add up quickly. 😊

[@TuanMinh-sv2gq]

What about a power regenerator? Do you use those in the studio?

[@biketech60]

I would think you caould take one of your Octave Records' best recordings & use that to audition various cables . It would be a better known reference than another company's disc .

[@johnwalker8952]

I've used Mogami for years on my hi-fi. If you can't tell the difference when recording, how can you tell the difference for playback?

[@brianmoore581]

PS Audio used to sell their own cables. I have a few pairs of them. Any chance of those returning?

[@PhillioDoede]

Mogami is what I use for my own DIY cable builds. Anyone curious can look at what WBC uses and buy the raw materials themselves or just take the easy route and buy the WBC cables. DIY is a bit tedious but they sound very good and look the part when wrapped in Techflex and you get exactly the length you are looking for.

[@purplehazeffc]

1 up for this. For value for money, you can't go past World's Best Cables.

[@joeythedime1838]

@@purplehazeffc 2 X this - WBC produces solid cables at affordable prices.

[@phillipmorris9847]

@@purplehazeffc 💯 I setttled on the 2549/amphenol nice and smooth, which ones do you enjoy ?

[@ChicagoRob2]

100% agree. I make my own interconnects from Mogami 2549 twisted-pair microphone cable and float the shield at one end. They are transparent and have a very good tonal balance. I can build a 1-meter pair with Rean Neutric gold-plated connectors for $15.

[@philrob4468]

Couldn't you use a recording of something and record what's coming out of a speaker for a reference to compare cables to microphones

[@sokrebis]

Also there are tuning forks that piano tuners use, they should always sound the same if you need reference.

[@bryanwilliams3665]

The main criteria for cables in the recording domain is that they are quiet and have low handling noise... Move a microphone 1/2 inch and it will have much more effect on sound than a cable if that cable is already noise free ...Time is better spent setting mics, reverbs, isolation booths etc

[@Fastvoice]

Speakers are not linear and not a reliable source. And regarding tuning forks: You would have to build a mechanism where the fork gets always the same hit with the same velocity. But you would still only have a limited frequency range around 440 Hz with some transients but no bass portion.

[@gioponti6359]

would be a useful approach, comparing short with long cables, the prior being reference, the latter showing the influence of the cables.

[@bayard1332]

translation- acoustics make 1000 times more impact on sound than a cable, and that is true for your home playback setup, too.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

I'd think that everything in the studio would be connected with balanced cables. This also makes cable differences much less of a factor.

[@bayard1332]

Not true in my experience.

[@mjot2360]

If only there was good music to listen to on Octave Records. That's the most important thing.

[@stimpy1226]

A wise man you are. There are so much out there to choose from yet Paul takes the route of spending a lot of money on recording studios and the latest equipment but he won’t spend money on real talent. Not that they’re mediocre, it’s that they’re just not up to better quality musicians which is what I look for combined with excellent recording techniques and there are so many out there.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Paul knows Ray Kimber is the man 👨

[@phillipmorris9847]

Ramble on Paul, the more you do the better 🙏

[@nextsibling]

One thing expensive cables are unarguably good at? Driving KZbin engagement.

[@bobclarke5913]

At 22 be more interested in preserving your hearing than what wire is lying on the floor. That's the most high end audio gear you'll ever have.

[@mcmolony]

Or, do both?

[@theonlyegg]

Good man. It’s nice to see the younger generations who seem to be completely immune to the absolute bullshit that audio marketing throws in your face. Let those “high end” manufacturers die off with the Boomers. They deserve to be out of business.

[@djwolffe_OG]

@@theonlyegg ouch, but well said. I agree. With modern technology developments actually testing things with the scientific method has become much easier. That includes digital. So much BS out there

[@wtfobiden]

Use the wires you can afford and Turn up to safe Levels and you will be More then Fine.

[@_Sam62]

@@theonlyegg You probably drive the cheapest car you could find because that is what gets you from A to B and that has been scientifically proven!

[@pcm9969]

Great explanation of the difference between recording and home listening.

[@atzeotze2256]

What do you eat when you are hungry in Hungary?

[@_Sam62]

AAA’s…🤷‍♂️

[@hwpno3]

Out of curiosity I did a search of high end cables. I found a company that will break in their cables for a cost. They use some fancy signal generator.. I love audio! I love the gear! But this is a road I choose to avoid. Maybe they do make an awesome sounding system sound more awesomer. I'll stick with awesome. I understand the allure. Not knocking anyone. It's where I personally draw the line.. To give my 2 cents to the discussion

[@kristofvadnai]

❤

[@Joshualbm]

It would be interesting to know what your selection criteria is for cables. One of the big critics of cables out there, I forget his name... so and so Wiener or something like that, says that all meaningful sonic differences are measurable. I, personally, do not agree with his sentiments. That said, I've read and heard countless testimonials where cable differences and improvements have defied the associative relationships between basic materials for moderate to low cost cables on up to exotic materials, assembly methods. It comes down to the interface with gear and the ear, is my conclusion. And you just have to do the work and listen.

[@CANKRAFTWERK]

You can record an DI Signal and Reamp it For anrepetable source

[@DanWorrall]

What Paul is trying to say is: real audio engineers in real studios have real control over things that actually matter, like microphone positions or parametric EQ settings. We don't need to invent woo woo magic cable bullshit. If the cable changes the sound it's broken.

[@paulgyro]

I truly hope that's what Paul is trying to say.

[@housepianist]

I agree 100%

[@brianmoore581]

@@DanWorrall um, I hate to break it to you, but Paul uses Audioquest Dragon cables in the PS Audio listening rooms - speaker cables that cost as much as the speakers themselves. Woo woo magic cables! And PS Audio sells various Audioquest cables to fit any budget.

[@DanWorrall]

@brianmoore581 yeah. Paul is happy to sell woo woo magic bullshit cables to "audiophiles" but he's not stupid enough to wire up a studio with it. Lol.

[@RichTeer]

I couldn’t disagree more. Instead of blindly asserting that audio cables don’t matter, try actually listening to a variety of cables on a decent system. With your ears, not a multimeter or oscilloscope!

[@edd2771]

Why must it be a microphone to test the impact of the cable in a studio? Just use a cd player for purposes of cable auditioning. Understood a microphone will ultimately be used, but that doesn’t prevent you from testing the impact of the cable by other means. Could it be you don’t do so because cables do not in fact matter?

[@Pete.across.the.street]

If he's getting the sound he wants with his current cables there's no need to test them

[@edd2771]

@ Pete! You’re back to keep me on my toes as ever! I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but Paul himself is not arguing that testing is not necessary. He’s just lamenting it’s not easy to do. I’m asking why he couldn’t run a typical source signal through the cable and into his board/monitoring setup to listen to the cables that way. It’s he who contends he would assess the sound if he could, and I am merely inquiring about a potential solution. .

[@24bellers20]

I was changing cables to try to brighten up my 90s Linn system. It turned out that after a hearing test I had a dip in my left ear above 8khz. Unfortunately my ears are now 67 and it looks as though I am chasing a loser. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@literal_lee]

I use copper cables for all my audio applications. They are just great !

[@JingoLoBa57]

Until you try silver… a higher conductor than copper. Start with The main difference between silver tinned, silver plated, and silver audio interconnects is the material and its conductivity, resistance, and corrosion resistance: Silver tinned Tin has low conductivity, and when plated over copper, it increases resistance. Tin-plated copper is a good choice for corrosion resistance in wet environments. Silver plated Silver has high conductivity, and when plated over copper, it reduces resistance. Silver-plated copper wire is ideal for high frequency applications because it combines the high electrical conductivity of copper with a thin outer layer of silver. Silver audio interconnects Silver alloy materials are different from silver plated copper materials, which only use less than 1% of pure silver.

[@literal_lee]

@JingoLoBa57 I don't buy it, sorry. Things will be audible when there's a 3dB difference between the two materials. If you have measurements that shows differences like that, I will drink the koolaid. "But muh ears" is not going to convince me otherwise. Cheers

[@meindertsprang7491]

@@JingoLoBa57 And all the extra milliohms you add or shave off at $$$$$ is moot when the signal goes into a 50 kOhm input. Simple application of Ohm's law.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

Try CCA ones

[@literal_lee]

@@JingoLoBa57 Oh... I forgot, plain resistance has no effect on audio quality, only on it's efficiency. But since this is the same for all frequencies, this doesn't effect the sound quality. AC-impedance does affect sound quality, but that doesn't apply to wire. Wire in itself has no reactance or capacitance. Maybe take a course in low voltage electrical engineering?!

[@suntzu6122]

Paul is there some better way to keep my cats from decimating my audio cords than rubbing soap or a citrus oil on them? Surely theres another way. Those might be the best though

[@darrellross8609]

P, Most of my system cables are Gotham. Best, D

[@Kaspurr84]

Love Gotham AG

[@tudorsomkereki9603]

What about recording some different genres of music? Those “audiophile” ones are just for a very small group of people. I would buy blues, gospel, pop etc… Most Octave recordings are for testing equipment purposes in my opinion..

[@franciscorompana2985]

Nice set of amps Paul. Amazing. When do we SEAT down for a 20 minute audition on KZbin and you present US with all the details of the hardware and the music of your choice!🧐

[@stevenholquin2127]

The Recording of Blue Miles Davis: The First Down Beat ….The Engineer Say’s “STOP” Miles Davis “” Why ? Why Did You Stop “” The Engineer “ The Snare Drum 🥁 Is Buzzing “” Miles Davis “ It’s Supposed To Buzz….That’s What it’s Supposed to Do”” This is What Happens When You Have a Overly Anxious Engineer That is Not a Musician Who Doesn’t Understand What Miles Davis and John Coltrane are Trying to Achieve and Capture a Unknown That’s Called a Vibe or a Feeling Through Minor Chord Progressions But They Can’t Because The Overly Anxious Engineer Thinks He Know More About Recording Than Miles Davis and What Exactly Miles Davis and John Coltrane Are Trying To Achieve ….Miles Davis Chastised The Recording Engineer “” Do Not Stop This Session Again “” and The Rest is Jazz History… You Want To Capture a Mood Not Kill The Mood Miles Davis Doesn’t Care About Your Cables or The Snare Drum Buzz or Where The Microphone 🎤 Is Placed You Capture The Moment Otherwise A Recording Engineer Can Kill The Moment and The Vibe Because The Recording Engineer Can’t Seem To Hear or Understand and Grasp The Intangible….. This Was a Well Documented Story and If You Listen To Miles Davis Blue Album You Hear The Snare Drum 🥁 Buzzing ….Joe Morello in a Interview Once Said “You Want a Recording Engineer To Record The Drum Set as a Instrument Not Record The Snare Or Bass Drum or Cymbals or Tom Tom as Separate You Find a Engineer That Records The Entire Drum Set as One Instrument…. Yes Times Have Changed Yet You Want To Capture The Moment Not Kill The Moment ….Wow Time To Take The Dogs Out For Their Evening Constitutional It’s A Beautiful Night in Amish Country I Got Two Amish Choke Cherry 🍒 Pies at The Farmers Market Yummy Yum Yum Yummy Nice and Sour Perfect For Tomorrows Football Games and Coffee ☕️

[@cengeb]

Oy Vey. What did George Martin use at Abbey Road Studios? hmmm. Still selling them recordings 60 years later. If you are hearing differences in wires, you better check for corroded and bad connections, period. Ever look inside an AKG tube mic, looks like pretty mediocre wires in there, and the mics sound great. Neutrik connectors are the standard of all

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

Every time Paul mentions conversion between DSD and DXD I cannot get my hypothesis out of my walnut-shaped upper thingy involving an iterative rendering and transfer process to optimize the final "print" for a given mix channel. Seems anything less is a big Hail Mary. Go ahead and use post grad/phd level arguments to reply if it''s in you. I will parse it with time compensating for relative IQs or skill sets and possibly learn something more than I otherwise would have in the process. And I'm not just asking for myself but also about 228e3 of our friends.

[@TheDanEdwards]

In the digital domain one can have arbitrary accuracy in your conversions, just increase the bit depth as you need or the sample frequency as needed.

[@robertt7238]

DSD or PCM, etc. are just implementations ultimately. All that matters and the only thing that matters is how well they can reproduce the original analog waveform within the range of our hearing, without creating out of band artifacts that may create in-band artifacts. Both are capable of fare beyond our hearing at the current implementations. Has been for a very long time.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

@@robertt7238 Probably scientifically accurate but Paul was digging deeper than that. It seems to me you need to convert, convert back and then do a bit for bit comparison, adjust to address errors and rerun the process. Then when you are satisfied with the result, (this would also be automated) you save the final output for editing or PCM publication.Then use the same process to harvest the DSD product.

[@carlosalvarez7445]

I'm so amused to read the enlightened voice of those geniuses that have waaaay more experience and knowledge (if you know what you're doing) than the engenier owner of a successful company! So entertaining to read that they even have the nerve to tell others what they have done and what not. Keep it flowing, it's Sunday afternoon! 😂

[@Rowuk2024]

The microphone cables in the studio have a relatively high voltage (48V phantom voltage) to power the microphones. That SURELY will change the audible characteristics of the cable. I often wonder why no hifi manufacturers have experimented with this. Perhaps voltage is a far better sauce for cables than all of the boutique looming.

[@Fastvoice]

As these cables are symmetric the phantom power has no influence on the audio signal. I have an old Neumann U87 which can be powered by a battery inside (phantom power must be deactivated) or with phantom power. You won't hear any difference between the two modes.

[@Hal9000Comp]

Well I would have to disagree with you Paul. Just like in high end audio you put in different cables in each section of a audio system you will hear the difference and you can quickly analyze the sound and pick the right cable for that section and component. Now yes granted as you choose different microphones to achieve the sound you like when recording certain instruments you can then you can try cables at the at that time. Many mastering engineers do the same thing. Yes it takes time but when you’re trying to be assured your recordings sound to your liking it’s a critical step. Mogami is a pretty mediocre sounding cable not terrible but a bit dark and vailed. Musical but your leaving much of the detail in the recording out. I’m also guessing that you’re reluctant to spend the money on what would be very expensive cables being microphone cables are typically very long runs.

[@Hal9000Comp]

I am also tired of hearing about others who are adamantly against cables making a difference in sound. Those who deniers couldn’t be less informed and simply are ignorant about the subject. I have done numerous tests and blind tests and not only can I tell you what cable I’m listening to but can even tell you if it’s hooked in the right direction ! And all 100 present correct. Yes I have many years experience my listening skills are highly tuned to hear many subtle differences. Another reason manufactures have used me to evaluate their pro types and where they can make improvements in their products before releasing it to the public. But for cable deniers, enough already don’t continue to expose your ignorance on the subject

[@mr555harv]

What is the physics explaining the difference between cables? Without science this is merely guesswork.

[@erikbarsingerhorn4485]

Great question and a honest answare, and to the commets below: Measurements and Hearing are two diferent things. Measurements are facts and constant, human hearing is not. And than there is likings and acoustics. Also, the type of music you listen to the most matters. Som types are fine in mp3 som are certinley not because of the 'perceptual noise shaping' on witch mp3 is build on. Do you want the best? That's the best ''YOU'' can hear, accept and pay for.

[@kenp9073]

80% of studios on the globe use Mogami or below. Maybe .5% use Kimber. Cables really dont matter. Flame on.

[@mitchtaylor6512]

How many recording studios would be able to spend the money on high end cables? There are some with deep pockets that do, but not many could afford it.

[@kenp9073]

That's not my point. My point is over 70% of the music recorded over the past 50 years has gone through cheap cables. End of story.

[@Mereomusic]

There’s something called a null test in pro audio. Feed some audio from your daw through your cables and back in. Change the cables and do it again. Flip the phase on one of the tracks and play them at the same time. You will hear the exact difference in cables. If they null each other out there is no difference. Please try it out and let us know what happens.

[@utube321piotr]

Mogami and Carrare are two excellent raw cable brands that you could buy by foot and make proper cabling for your home application. Far cheaper than mortgaging your house to buy snake salesman cables.

[@djwolffe_OG]

Fun fact… Story #1: Standard cables and “audiophile” cables come from the same factory, same manufacturing process and same raw source are just branded and packaged differently. One is sold cheap and the other one at a premium😂 Source: I went to the factory, saw it with my own eyes after a pro came to talk to us at audio school. Story #2: An audiophool tested cables and loved the 2nd pair more than 1st pair. Irony is the sales rep pretended to swap the cables while the client was wearing blindfolds. Otherwise, same speakers same source same room same everything. That’s my take on cables. As long as its sturdy and magnetically shielded I’m a happy camper.

[@mitchtaylor6512]

Story#1 is not always true.

[@mitchtaylor6512]

I would be surprised if the factory you visited is mining and smelting the copper or silver for cables, so what's your point.

[@djwolffe_OG]

@@mitchtaylor6512 same raw product received. Same batch. Same end product. Different packaging.

[@djwolffe_OG]

@@mitchtaylor6512 surprise… it wasn’t. It was the manufacturer. You know; get the same raw product from the same supplier; same process; same final product; different packaging (and price😉) The cables I use in my system (from my local hardware store) sounds “phenomenal” according to some phoolish mates of mine. When I tell them I get it from my local hardware store they don’t believe me - until I show them

[@djwolffe_OG]

@@mitchtaylor6512 surprise… it wasn’t. It was the manufacturer. You know; get the same raw product from the same supplier; same process; same final product; different packaging (and price😉) The cables I use in my system (from my local hardware store) sounds “phenomenal” according to some phoolish mates of mine. When I tell them I get it from my local hardware store they don’t believe me - until I show them

[@moneypizzle]

Can you please quit beating around the bush and stay on topic ffs. Cables don't really matter if you know what you are doing. So why start rambling about mic placement?

[@carlosalvarez7445]

😂

[@willbuckley54]

McGowan is a great publicist for his own gear. But as to whether it's any better than other high-end manu's is very problematic.

[@theonlyegg]

Blah blah blah blah. Still immune to ABX testing, I see. You know damn well there won’t be a difference.

[@stimpy1226]

Take the shit out of your ears and maybe you will hear the difference. Maybe you’ll get depressed like Gene

[@stimpy1226]

Maybe if you clean the shit out of your ears you would be singing a different tune, or stop watching Gene who wouldn’t take Ted Denny up on his offer to fly him out to California at no charge, pay for his hotel room and food to do an AB test at Synergistic Research. Gene Punk’d out. Gene is big on talk and spending lots on test equipment but he doesn’t walk the walk and take this type of challenge. He has you Zombies the back him up just like Jonestown.

[@eduardovillalon7496]

Let me guess: You are one of those “illuminated” ones from the “idiot-holics” forum that states everything sound the same, and that a $10.00 amplifier you grabbed from a thrift store will sound the same as a Hi-Fi one, right? (of course, everything connected with a $3.00 lamp cord) 😂😂😂

[@theonlyegg]

Oooh I triggered the idiots.

[@theonlyegg]

@@stimpy1226 Keep spending money bud. It’ll fill that void in your soul eventually. 🤡

[@robertt7238]

And all you have proven is that "Recording Engineers" are not real engineers. Real engineers have an understanding of the physical world. Met a lot of recording engineers. There is no correlation to being good at what they need to do, i.e. record / mix music in an ultimately pleasant manner, and and understanding of any of the technology that they use, beyond some basic outcomes like microphone placement and tool usage. Few have any real understanding of electronics or how our hearing works.

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

That may be true for many, and certainly most recording engineers I have met have only limited electronics knowledge, but to be honest, that describes most people. Not sure what the point is. We still make decisions based on what works and what we hear.

[@slacker23666]

If you have to use the word "synergy"... well, ya they don't make a difference

[@PetraKann]

Analog audio recordings are superior on many fronts to digital recordings

[@zulumax1]

Which analog format is best, direct to disk 45 rpm record, magnetic tape reel to reel, or another format for home use?

[@paulb4661]

​@@zulumax1Edison wax cylinders are the most analogue of them all!

[@PetraKann]

@@zulumax1 VHS video tapes have one the best audio recording qualities surprisingly. In 1976 when VHS was introduced it was solely a mono audio system. The system then jumped to stereo but the sound quality was still average with very modest frequency response range. Then is 1986 they upgraded the sound quality of the VHS and BETA video systems to about 20 Hz - 20 kHz. s/n ratio was 70 dB. The slanted head recording system on VHS means that you can generate much higher tape speeds. The faster the tape speed the higher the audio fidelity. VHS HiFi audio is comparable to the CD. Some musical artists at the time would record master tapes on HiFi VHS tape. The equipment was much cheaper than a reel to reel tape machine that professional sound studios were mastering on. A professional JVC SVHS editing deck produces sensational audio quality. Of course you can also buy a professional high speed Reel to Real deck for recording.

[@SpyderTracks]

A lot of modern artists are moving back to full analogue recording for this very reason.

[@paulb4661]

@@PetraKann Hi-Fi stereo as invented by JVC actually relies on audio frequency modulation of two separate video band range carriers, bearing some resemblance to FM stereo in that respect.

[@royrogers7644]

If cables make the amp sound different you may have a oscillation problem inside the amp.