Off The Cuff with Shyam Saran

#ShyamSaran
In this episode of ThePrint Off The Cuff, author and former Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran talks to ThePrint's Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta about his new book, 'How China sees India and the World', China's thousands of years of documented history, globalisation and the long term impact of Russia's war in Ukraine on relationships with China and India.
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[@realhumphreyappleby]

India is that rare country that manages to disappoint both it's backers and it's critics. Golden line. I'm gonna plagiarize this so much.

[@MukulApple]

In the fullness of time.

[@karpasurya]

Only cynics make such statements. Till The Modi Govt came, The Indians had only lived on a colonial past. Now that it is waking up, its past owners of governance are alarmed like a growing baby, causing consternation. Just wake up to reality of present and not past. The US armed the terrorists and India gave medicine and food. That may disappoint the arms dealers and not civilized public

[@realhumphreyappleby]

@@MukulApple At the appropriate juncture.

[@lordbato]

that's how you know you're doing something right

[@yuanhaochue2889]

Your English is so English that I failed to understand ..correct me if I am wrong..u are trying to say Indians tends to speak the pro n cons at the same time but in another environment his cons is more primary in killing the pros..

[@kushal6406]

SHYAM SARAN IS A VERY GOOD LISTENER!

[@deanzaZZR]

As an American who decided to study Chinese way back in the 1980s and who has lived and worked in China and Taiwan, I am surprised to learn that few Indians make the effort to learn the Chinese language and something about the history and culture if for no other reason than the business and financial opportunities in China.

[@harisundar8698]

SG, please do more such episodes with Shyam Saran, Shivshankar Menon, etc at regular intervals. Highly informative and when you add personal experiences with it, it is too good to miss out.

[@vaibhavbhushan4257]

We may also consider Abhijeet Iyer Mitra

[@FreeYourImagination]

@@vaibhavbhushan4257 AIM isn't in the same league as SS & SSM. No comparison. He's good for TV debates.

[@vaibhavbhushan4257]

@@FreeYourImagination, thanks for your feedback.

[@girishleo]

You never fail to interrupt the guest at every moment and show off your knowledge

[@girishleo]

Then it should seem like one and not interjecting at every point he makes. You understand the difference? There are others as well on the comments who felt the same.

[@sthivaka]

He does make the guest comfortable ... guest's flow is not disturbed a lot. So it is OK. Adding SG's wisdom gives one more view.

[@roro4787]

Exactly!

[@sampadmohanty8573]

@Anirudh This is KZbin, not your personal TV. If you don't like his comment, read other comments - don't get offended . How do you like the taste your own medicine?

[@abhay5133]

Excellent views on China. Pls do keep interviewing more SUCH DISTINGUISHED GUESTS. I am hugely surprised and pleased with the knowledge being shared.

[@hpremjit]

If India did what Modi is doing today (infra push, micro/macro economic reforms, ease of doing business, hectic diplomacy, overall making India investment friendly) in 2003-2007 than India would have been in a very better place now (economically and hence geopolitically). What is different from MMS era and Modi era is that western countries who wanted India to succeed then had to built India from scratch (too many hurdles to cross), whereas today Modi's India is ready and waiting, all who wanted India to succeed can do business (Diplomatically and economically) right away.

[@roro4787]

I have many friends Chinese friends here in Germany, they are amazing I love them. Few years ago in 2018 I visited China to meet my friends in Guangzhou met their families and friends. We went amazing 2 weeks trip visited many places in Guangdong, Shecuhan, Tianjen, Bejing etc. Loved Chinese people and places, I was surprised by the progress and modernization infact it was more developed than USA and Europe in many aspects!!! Further, people were super awesome, friendly, respectful, helpful and kind. I look forward to meeting them and visiting China again! Also would definitely invite them for a trip to India. I don't know politics CCP or whatever, but people I can vouch for them

[@vaibhavbhushan4257]

Very well encapsulated OTC with Mr #ShyamSaran.

[@shantanushekharsjunerft9783]

There is no joy like listening to two well read and well traveled gentlemen!! Keep up your great journalism Gupta ji!

[@ganesha37]

Excellent conversation. Thanks to shekar ji and shyamcharanji

[@dandmello5283]

Thank you very much SGSir. I missed this update on that date..now I found it.... And it's simply great 👍

[@maheshdewani547]

Thank you both of you

[@tresajessygeorge210]

THANK YOU BOTH AND THE PRINT...!!! GREAT DISCUSSION ...!!!

[@rajkumaroberoi3113]

Very informative discussions.Your program is never missed and should be live .

[@ThePrintIndia]

Hi Raj, thank you for appreciating this episode. We do hope you keep tuning in daily.

[@tonyraheja1]

Fascinating conversation.. As with all OTCs... Thanks E-in-C!

[@cheguramana]

Great episode. Am surprised so few have liked it. These kind of programs need to be seen by Indians in the millions and not in hundreds.

[@kirandeepchakraborty7921]

Outstanding discussion. Great Insights.

[@majunair]

It’s remarkable how two so called intellectuals here are agreeing that Indian society didn’t have a habit of history writing and keeping. One refers to Ramayan and Mahabharata as the some of the history written by Indian ancestors unlike Chinese. Have they even read Indian history? Which civilisation has had all its records and 5-10 universities burned down. Wouldn’t ancient universities have been places to keep historical records/books? Nalanda university in 12th century was burned for 4 plus weeks 24x7 by invader Bhakhtiyar Khilji. The sad part is of all the people of world, our ancestors had helped, the Arabs and west Asian neighbours including Turkey got the most favoured, as they were considered lesser sophisticated and more fractured society than those in SE Asian neighbourhood. Hearing the conversation was a reminder of those mockings that Europeans had with Indian when they first came. Alright you say you have a 10000 years glorious history we’re have you recorded it. Just that it’s two brown skinned European minds in this interview though. But like the white skinned masters they also have their minds in Greenwich time.

[@Bugsbunnywasmurdered]

Man up M N . Learn to admit.

[@RJ-kp6pr]

The story of the Indic civilization goes back to 3300 BCE, so it is incorrect to say that the Chinese civilization is older; it is not. But it is true that the written word and memorialized history is older in China than India.

[@wizdi5142]

When our nalanda library is burnt by motherfuckers then what we can preserve

[@edwardtang1977]

India is a British product. You don't even speak the same language. A civilization is only old if your cultures are the same. India is far from homogenous.

[@RJ-kp6pr]

@@edwardtang1977 well by that definition, the oldest civilization in the world, the Mesopotamian, isn’t a civilization either because they had at least two language families, Akkadian and Sumerian. And neither were the Mayans a civilization, since they were anything but homogeneous. The idea that India is a British concept gives the Brits far too much undeserved credit I’m afraid! India comes from Indos, a greek rendition of Sindhu, where this civilization began. Most people of India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka still carry that ancient DNA to this day, in varying proportions.

[@arundhatichatterjee9396]

@@edwardtang1977 if India would have been a British product, then we would have lost all our ancient traditions and history. That is not the case. Kindly know about the facts before you spread misinformation and lies. This same reference is made in this episode as well. Kindly refer to that. India was never homogeneous. That's precisely its beauty. "A functioning chaos" as stated by SG

[@arundhatichatterjee9396]

Thank you for commenting this. I was hoping to comment the same. We might be lesser than China in many aspects. But we are a much more ancient civilization than them and that part is documented

[@PolityAnalyst]

Two legendary delighted 👏

[@aniruddhshetake]

Toooooo many interruptions by Mr Gupta, which is not his usual way of interviewing. But very informative and knowledgeable talk.

[@sudarshannarula2532]

Thanks!

[@sriramkanakagiri]

Absolutely loved this OTC. Thanks a lot SG and Team at The Print.

[@perspective500]

Good discussion, thank you

[@VicharB]

Very interesting interview and discussion. Thank you.

[@ThePrintIndia]

Thank you and do keep tuning in.

[@pulkitasharma6212]

A very informative interview! Definitely buying the book now.

[@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217]

Preparing for civil services or just like reading non fictions?

[@sudhirbahel8644]

Wonderful 👍🏽👍🏽

[@rajmd01]

Awesome debate. Economy is the key 🤛🏼

[@chandramoulibaskaran3886]

Shyam’s flow of thoughts and delivery are so disjointed that Shekhar’s interjections seem a perfect remedy to keep the show lively!

[@sasankasekharde9835]

Not everyone is shivshankar menon

[@sus10651]

I have some Chinese friends and acquaintances here in Vancouver Canada. Many people think India is chaotic and underdeveloped and unclean. But I have never met anyone who hates India. They see a good potential in South Indian cities like Mumbai, Pune, Bangalore and Hyderabad and want to do business there. Many Chinese especially Buddhist Chinese like India and Indian culture. Taiwanese love India, no doubt. So to sum up, we need to learn a lot more about China.

[@kns6132]

Shekhar ji, today I saw Jyotji ji in you, interrupting while Mr. Saran talking about key points 😉. Overall very good discussion and lot of leaning.

[@sukreetsubba]

33:00 & 53:00 great analysis

[@govardhannynala5477]

Excellent journalism

[@akd2023]

Shekharji nice interview, continue the good work

[@kidpoker1021]

Those other partners need to want to have that relationship to. Very interesting interview and conversation.

[@kilangaier2949]

SG is himself a storehouse of knowledge but atleast when there is a guest he should try to listen more then jumping in so often when the guest is speaking.

[@mralwyngeorge]

Great.

[@amartyaray]

Have ordered the book. Wish me a good read. Have "In service of the Republic" to traverse before that.

[@himanshu54365]

Nice and deep analysis

[@parsvishal]

Shyam Sharanji is one of the very responsible person in Indian decision taking on China. I hope he really settles the border problem and move ahead with RCEP and other trade alliances. As Kishore Mahbubani rightly said, India must go for this Destructive creativity now. Joining big trade alliances like RCEP etc will make Indians competitive in global stage. (I mean all other Indian races from Biharis Bengalis Sikkimwala etc, other than just Marwaris, Parsis who have earned plenty drug money in early 1800’s from China)

[@MohinderKalsi]

Very unusually, Gupta sahib kept talking over his guest - normally Jyoti does that! :-))

[@poras1513]

Nice Video...

[@TheWatupmr]

Loved it

[@ThePrintIndia]

Thanks for tuning in Vimarsh. Glad that you liked it.

[@manusukul7497]

Takshashila, Nalanda discounted. China was never invaded by externals. India however was pillaged, rapined, and ravaged and razed. China on the other hand wilfully eradicated their own culture

[@pmm7268]

Visuals have a going out, that is grab effect. Sound has a listening, meditative effect. That in a way contributed to the emergence of both the nations.

[@jaydeepgadhavi5465]

@print, we aren't getting any prior emails for OTC if we want to pose any question

[@ThePrintIndia]

Hi Jaydeep. We send out mails regularly to subscribers of ThePrint website. Could you please write to us on [e-mail] from the email id from which you have subscribed?

[@ruhulalambarbhuiya7887]

This man is itself a knowledge hub

[@IndianGeopolitics]

I Don't agree with Shyam's statement of China being older than India. It's factually incorrect. Rest it was a very informative discussion.

[@Ashish-yo8ci]

both are roughly the same age and both, especially China, are almost civilizational states. China was united top down by the government and India via its social norms.

[@dixitdungarpur]

After yor episode on china,i was very upset but after this episode i feel relaxed

[@craumm]

Indian-Chinese interaction at universities in US/Canada/UK etc. is way more than the diplomatic interaction!

[@francisjayasurya61]

Yet another highly intelligent conversation SG and Saran Ji.. So much to learn from this richly knowledge personalities Culture and Geo Political and History evolution. Rightly said on Sound in India and Visual in China.. That is reason Sound Horn Ok . India is only country in globally 😂😀😀

[@shantanushekharsjunerft9783]

🤣

[@ashoksircar]

It must be recalled in this context that Rabindranath Tagore realised the need to build cultural connections with Chinese civilisation, and established a Chines Studies and Culture Department at Viswa Bharati, the first in the world, outside China. The country's leadership of course did not even understand what he wished to do. The Chinese of course understood what Tagore wanted to do, and did everything to continue this relationship. I can talk more if anyone is interested.

[@ajaymittal5239]

All that is fine but any amount of cultural relationship will NOT STOP CHINA from taking India's land that it has laid claim to. It will not hesitate to fight wars and inflict war and destruction if needed on India. China RESPECTS ONLY power and that is one think India never projected because it neglected its security related preparedness, training, manufacturing, modernization, defense imports etc. The corruption and kickbacks considerations in defense imports ensured that quality imports did not happen. China CLEARLY SAW for last 50 years (Excuse 20 years for a newly independent country learning to walk) that Indian leaders have behaved extremely foolishly and kept India in a highly un-readiness state.

[@sesh7357]

Thank you for doing this interview - our discourse on China normally tends to be driven by recent events - it was important to temper it by going into the history and civilizational elements of the two peoples! Shyam Sharanji is a great choice for this purpose. Thanks again

[@shankarrajgopal5165]

Mr Shekhar, we see this program to listen to what the guest says. It is better that u keep quiet most of the time.

[@RohitBansod15]

Can we bring out a highlights package (say 15-20 mins) of Off the Cuff.

[@Lakshmidasaa]

I understand one thing knowledge is directly proportional to baldness.

[@sid8285]

This holds true especially for these two guys😂

[@vmdoon]

😁

[@FPfreddyyy]

The soviet union was able to create some cutting edge technology, but this was mostly within the military field and we must not forget that the Soviet Union spent 20-30% of it's GDP on the military compared to 3-5% in the west. One of the reasons the Soviet Union collapsed was because they could not compete with the west economically and the main reason for this is that they were unable to develop their own technology.

[@Ashish-yo8ci]

this isn't unique to Soviet though. Much of the cutting edge technology across the world came from military first. The US was already a much larger economy and it just outpaced an inefficient Soviet economy in cold war era.

[@roro4787]

Also China is not Soviet. China is doing allround development in all aspects

[@FPfreddyyy]

@@roro4787 They have the same systematic flaws however, if anything even more.

[@FPfreddyyy]

@@Ashish-yo8ci The soviet union had to invest 4-5 more times in relation to their GDP in order to (barley)keep up with the the development in military technology compared to the west however. In the rest of the economy their technology was far behind.

[@zil1832]

Actually China built its own tech companies, we couldnt do that. That was the start of the growing power gap...

[@jigjagjoo]

👍🌻👍

[@anshulpunetha3080]

There's a very interesting 4 volume book on Hieun Tsang's (Xuansang) travels - titled "Journey to the West" - a fascinating story with epic film / web series potential and could help bridge the cultural gap...

[@lordbato]

Thanks for recommending it to us friend. I will definitely read it!

[@adityarajpoot8214]

and suggestion to the production team use a bigger green screen sirs head is getting chopped like half of the time

[@OnkarShrma]

Well India really need to get it's act better in economic terms.

[@mutualrespect4411]

Oh wow, Samir Saran is son of Shyam Saran...never knew!

[@TheBrightOne5]

Two uncles talking! 👍

[@parthapratimlala6751]

👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼.

[@pullamraju4855]

Qualitative human resources is always strength to any Nation but not quantity.

[@utkarsh130965]

Scholarly and engrossing! More of the same please !

[@Noname-oq9mk]

Chinese culture is very rich but it's not older than Indian civilization.

[@inventorpranjal]

Jo bhi kaho, shekhar gets the best guests.

[@Mohit98303]

44:00

[@Baluph]

SG and SS look like brothers.

[@adityarajpoot8214]

SG sir please please dont interrupt him next time if hes back on ofc

[@girishleo]

He does it with every guest

[@YG-sh4nv]

Audible please

[@DrSudhirBisht]

Dear Shekhar Please never think of going behind pay-wall. Study the impact on readership of The Hindu and TOI digital publications. They are struggling for growth I shifted to other digital papers that are stil free. I also see that you have many sponsors. To say that advertising can harm the independence of editorial department is a very far-fetched conclusion. You have perhaps the Best content + research team. You don't have to go behind a pay-wall Cheers!

[@calvincrow6477]

I am chainese, now I know what u know and don't, we will upgrade to what u don't know.

[@Sam-sg9mp]

Relationship with Russia should be based on Equal Partnership, like Brahmos

[@pardeeptandon]

Saran is right in 2007 india’s status in the world was rising and since then it has decreased and now China cares two hoots for Indian interests. Well done Modi jee!!!!!!

[@sharadchandakacherla8268]

12:52 is mischaracterising partially , not just Buddhism

[@hasanmahmood653]

Forget neighbourhood. What about hindu-muslim relations within India. South Asia is too diverse to bring about a harmonious relation in the region. Historically india was always divided into small kingdoms.

[@prasukjain8107]

Well china is not old as India. China civilization starts with shang dyansty or maybe xi dyansty which is around 2000 bce while India civilization starts with indus valley around 3500 bce

[@AlessioAndres]

You can't be neutral to excellence. Asia is on a much clearer path by itself.

[@krishnachaitanya3105]

Unlike other global power politics where the alliances and terms purely runs on gross strength and weakness , subcontinent had another important element which is “ emotions”. If the adverse feelings towards China simmer for long and converts into permanent enmity towards China ( just like how majority Indians see Pakistan today ) it would trouble China, more than India .. power politics shouldn’t create powerful enemies right next in the neighbourhood . Whether China acknowledges it and calibrate its terms to rational and reasonable limits with India ? Or they just sacrifice the eventual reality for the sake of few thousand miles of Barron lands ?

[@sagarsreenath7647]

Shekhar ji- pls allow Shyam ji to complete his response and avoid interjecting

[@rishabhkumarT]

Indian documented history was destroyed when the great universities were burnt. Print seems to be bringing half knowledge experts lately.

[@rishabhkumarT]

Oral history remained because people experienced them and passed it on. A collective memory.

[@shashankdwivediYT]

You are right.., Extant manuscripts in Sanskrit number over 30 million, one hundred times those in Greek and Latin combined, constituting the largest cultural heritage that any civilization has produced prior to the invention of the printing press. Despite the destruction of nalanda library and taxila. That's why the oral culture...

[@ThiruSiva]

I agree that were do not have very good documentation.... But we have written scripts way older than that... Some Tamil scripts are more than 5000 years old.... Saying China's culture is older than India is absurd without giving any proof of it...

[@csbarolaca1]

With TFR of China 1.15 in 2021, the population will start declining from next year and this is irreversible, so from next year CHINA is moving towards its extinction ....... This is irreversible as TFR should be 2.1 for population of China to be stable which has now reduced to 1.15 ........now China has allowed 3 Child policy but that's the upper limit ........some of them may produce 3 children but mostly will produce 1.15 children as couple .......... so this decline is now IRREVERSIBLE ..................so now Chin will be extinct .. this most of people dont know ........this should be propagated and this Communist party knows and that is why it's now nervous and that's why change in China ........... this world is not understanding.

[@csbarolaca1]

Northeast China's Heilongjiang Province lost 460,000 permanent residents compared with the previous year, the most significant decline nationwide. North China's Hebei and Shanxi and Northwest China's Gansu provinces each lost more than 100,000 people in the same period. China’s total fertility rate, which is births per woman, was 2.6 in the late 1980s, well above the needed 2.1 to replace deaths. However, it fell to 1.6 and 1.7 after 1994 and further slipped to 1.3 in 2020 and 1.15 in 2021. China's fertility rate is expected to slip further from 1.15 to 1.1 between now and 2030 and remain the same till 2100. China’s working-age population, which peaked in 2014, is projected to shrink to less than one-third of that peak by 2100.

[@caa_nrc]

How can we even compare china and india ,, china is on the spot on every important thing like education , health , defence , research but here still we are trapped in caste politics to get a shitty govt job .

[@udaybalakrishnan]

Just hazard a a guess how will Xi's regime end?

[@uglytoad285]

"Perhaps older than India." You mean older than harappan civilisation ? I beg perdon sir, I disagree.

[@AJAYSINGH-pw5qk]

Get our home right first. Then the prosperity will spill to the neighbors

[@premtiwari3161]

The Modi govt is on the right path. Another 10 years of modi / bjp rule will put India prominently on the world map.

[@ajaymittal5239]

From what I have heard so far, Shyam Charan Shukla is WRONG on one aspect OR the Chinese are wrong if they think so - "US does not have the will to fight since they left Afghanistan". Even Chinese won't have the will to fight in Afghanistan since the adversary is both suicidal and crazy in their world views. Chinese will fight in Afghanistan using tactics not acceptable to the world or to US such as use of biological weapons. US could have easily used it without any fingers getting pointed at it and the whole of Afghanistan could have easily been theirs to exploit.

[@kabeerharrythakur8288]

You are talking shit Ji.

[@yuanhaochue2889]

This guest speaker speak different narratives with Wire n Print ..then he said China never recognizes Indian culture but this he is saying Chinese had high regards to Indian culture to the extend considered it superior.. lol ..typical Indian for twist n turn depending on the environment.. that is my impression of dealing with my Indian compatriots in my country..

[@pardeeptandon]

The wealthiest new born today in the world is a Chinese. This is due to 3 generation of inherited wealth. From being wealthy to rich is a small step.

[@pullamraju4855]

We must become stronger with compulsory military service for youth. Then only china listen to use in border dispute?!

[@kotlapraveenkumar5045]

why always china

[@adityabanerjee7145]

He wrote many books and gave even more speeches on Kashmir but Kashmir did not change an iota - till a clear headed Chaiwala sized up Kashmir and Pakistan - and now he is starting on his rubbish on China

[@prempalsharma7]

Mr Sharan shd be allowed to speak more sir!

[@Bugsbunnywasmurdered]

One more reason the chinese people(especially the old) hates(maybe dislike is the better word)Indians is,because during the colonial period Indian soldiers killed many Chinese people on the order of the British during their riots and revolts. The Chinese soldiers working under the British could never kill their own people. Now let me come to the intresting part and let me tell you,truth hurts, Indian soldiers not only killed Chinese and other nationals on order of the British but Indian soldiers killed their own people. Jalliawalla bagh incident,Dyer ordered the massacre but the bullets were shot by Indians. That's one of the reason Chinese people hates or dislikes Indians, killing ones own that too on order of somone from some far away land, that's low. It's like the man doesn't have his own will or brain. Slave mentality is what it is. Even now in this day and age,common people treats MLAs and ministers as if they are kings,forget about MLAs and MPs,even a havaldar gets treated like a king by the poor. This mentality has to go. Self respect is very much lacking from the society. Caste system has to go even if it's your damn 'culture',this slave mentality has to go, everyone is equal in a democracy and if this is not possible than its better you all let BJP turn this nation to some kind of Hindu Caliphate or something. Corruption has to go. Mob mentality has to go. Education is the most important factor for our country to grow and iam not talking about literacy rate, a simple common sense is better than being a racist upperclass IAS officer. I can go on and on and on but what's the use typing here...nothing gonna happen ....we all are going down the drains.