The end of the Solar Tilt System before it started. Here is what I (you) have come up with instead.

[@williamlawrance4138]

Great idea to use actuators. Not only could you lower them in high wind, but also have them adjust the angle during the day using light sensors.

[@mfgxl]

You explain things so well. I find it interesting that you were put on this earth to do what you are doing for so many people to benefit from.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot. I'm sharing my thoughts and get good feedback and ideas through the community here.

[@daveduncan2748]

Andy, you are so powerful! Single-handedly ending the solar system's tilt! I'm going to have to get used to the Milky Way appearing in a different part of the sky. More along the equator, I presume.

[@mario-q6k9w]

Hi Andy, another possible solution could be to close the opening on the back of the panel with an Aluminium sheet. It than works Linke a wind shield, so no wind can go under the panel. This way you built a kind of monolithic block

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, that looks terrible though and I have no WAF for that.

[@nigelwacollins]

Horizontal mounting makes sense. If you consider the wind force on the top most part of the panel, its "moments" around the fixing points will be lower horizontally mounted (force x distance)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Ah, right, makes sense...

[@ertcom1]

Hi Andy. I had a similar problem with anchoring 4 panels on a farm shed on a hilltop (very windy). I used 3 stainless steel guy wires from the top panel mount channel to 3 anchor points on the steel frame of the shed (not the roof). I used the same tilt brackets as you with the wires sloping back over the edge of the roof. Nearly invisible and as you tighten the turn buckle it pushes the frame down hard on the roof. No issues for 6 years now.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's a good solution. I don't think I have any steel structure on this roof though. The top hat roof battens are the only anchor points🤷‍♂️

[@marinusderuijter9255]

I have done exactly the same thing on various solar panels I installed. Stainless steel wires with a tensioner, attached to a solid part of the house. I am actually an installer of solar warm air panels that need an angle of 60º because of the low winter sun and so far all the panels are still in place, even those close to the sea.

[@SurakIII]

Yes! I was thinking the same thing with the remote control tilt. I live in Florida. Hurricanes go through here once every couple of years. ☹️

[@pmacgowan]

Great new project, looking forward to see your (community) solution

[@brandenwalrath3012]

I look forward to seeing the dump truck design panel!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes 💪🚚

[@gumpster6]

Sounds like a good plan. Should be challenging and a learning experience.

[@9111logic]

Hello Andy, I didn't want to say anything earlier because I am a novice to solar (even though I followed a course in 1990) but . . yes, that is exactly what I am doing, most of my panels, both ground mount and those on top of the solar shed, are going to be indeed adjustable some in both horizontal and vertical direction as we do have very strong winds in this part o England. At the moment it is all manual but next winter, when I'll have more time, I shall modify the system and use electric actuators then make a simple program for a microcontroller to, not only adjust the long 15-panel ground mount daily according to the earth inclination, but also those that move in the other direction (more like in your case here) if the weather station shows a warning for high winds or storms. I will share some video details as soon as I have time. Thanks for sharing this one more experiment with us all🙏

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Oh, great, that sounds really good and interesting. Yes, please share your experience in a video (or two)...

[@JohnDoe-j5f]

Hi Andy, I live in Florida and living in a RV full time. I had installed solar panels on my RV roof. They are tilted about 30 degrees. We have very strong storms and hurricanes here. During the storm /hurricane season I simply lower the angle and keep the solar panels flat and lock in that position. Since storms are predicted ahead of time I think you can also do a similar adjustable frame for those four panels and have enough time to lower the angle.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, sometimes storm come through the night or when I'm at work, so it needs to be something automatic.

[@danfitzpatrick4112]

Very interesting. Great Idea to "crowd engineer" the build! Looking forward to this. Home Assistant is your go to for automating the raise and lowering of the panels based on wind speed, time of day, or whatever your idea's may be proper for automating them. I'm thinking horizontal mounting of the panels is best all around (For many reasons). Wind, shadows, fitment, and individual actuators. This will be fun to watch

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. The horizontal mount creates even a longer shadow because the panels are no on a steeper angle towards the sun. But I received some good ideas already which can get me started.

[@tiloalo]

For tracking, it's actually pretty easy, 2 small photodiode on 2 side of a vertical shade, and the one receiving the highest voltage indicate which direction to go

[@edwardvanhazendonk]

Hi Andy, looking at the extra info. Mount your panels landscape, make the angle optimal till aroud 15h, if you keep the current height the angle is already better. I think that gives the best yield. Don't try to optimise for to late in the day, the other time has already generated enough. Also shading in horizontal.positioning only covers part of your panel, which still gives the other rows energy, not so when portrait mode, then a bit of shading and generation is over (shading on part, closest to the roof). Just my 2 cents. Enjoy your sunny wintertime!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Edward. If I mount them horizontally, they stick out higher then in vertical mount as I have them right now. So the shadow will be even longer. I will test over the next few days and see how I go...

[@edwardvanhazendonk]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia the age is also higher, with the actuator on it search for the optimum yield and you will be fine, but the shadows will not shut down the panel, but you can check that with a cloth. Keep the sunny side up 👍🏻

[@karloffgrid]

I love the idea of using actuators for automatically raising and lowering the panels due to the weather. Think of the actuator that you use to raise and lower your panel as the piston that is used to raise and lower the bed on a dump truck or tipper trailer. You want the actuator to be at an angle so it is pushing slightly upwards. The closer you put the actuator to the pivot point of the panels then the more force thst is needed to lift the panels but not as much piston travel. Farer from the pivot point you go and you need less force but more travel. Also the closer you put the actuator to horizontal the more force it will need to start the panel moving upwards so its a tradeoff to find the minimum angle you need to actually lift the panel with 0⁰ being flat and 90⁰ being up right you want to get as close to 0⁰ as possible whilst using minimum force to push the panel up

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

One a truck it's a hydraulic piston though. I probably won't use that 😁 I have received some great suggestions already which give me some good ideas on where to start.

[@davidpatrick1813]

Regarding adjusting them for a wind. I had mine laying down in my manual system. Hinged on one side it lays down. I had a problem but fix was easy. When the wind came around from the opposite side it packed up the panel and flipped it over to the cells faced down. So planning a sstop safety chain (I don’t need) … but when I have it down I use a pin through the side to keep it down.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that could happen when you have a manual adjustment. I think with a strong actuator, this cannot happen.

[@philipkudrna5643]

Hi Andy, I fully support all your conclusions and am fully looking forward to the project. Only one thing: if you install automated actuators, you can (and probably should) definitely include a tracking sensor. That should not increase the costs dramatically.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Most of the actuators come with their light and also wind sensors already...

[@reoproedros]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia cant we use the solar panels as light sensors ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@reoproedros voltage is almost constant regardless the light conditions. Difficult...

[@Andrew28Lamont]

Hi Andy, you can put a corrugated sheet back plate in an angle behind the panels to prevent wind getting under the panel, that way you will be directing the wind upwards, you probably will need it the sides too. Not sure how the heat will affect it in summer if all sides are closed, but if the sides are not closed it should cool with air coming through the sides.

[@nigelwacollins]

I was thinking the same thing. Wind not so much a problem if wind is prevented from getting under the panels. I like the idea of an automated riser - could even work out optimal angle for time of day during winter - maybe use a flexible material to block off wind from getting under when elevated. Any more updates with "home assistant"?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No WAF for that. And I don't like it either. It will look terrible and ugly.

[@andylutube]

I don't yet know if actuator idea developed, just recently subscribed to Off Grid Garage and I'm finding great videos. One idea is to use a 'dump truck' type of linkage mechanism which uses kinematic joints. There are many variations of this mechanism which could be applied to raising and lowering the tilt of the solar panels while keeping the actuator under the pv panel. It could all be made with extruded aluminium using off-the-shelf swivel joints, brackets and extruded bar. The fun part is working out all the lengths of linkages, the actuator power and controls.

[@Mr1Spring]

Hi Andy, Another option is to box the panels in. Ie on the three open sides a piece of material so that wind cannot lift the panel up.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, someone suggested that. But it looks terrible.

[@davidb.5544]

Sort of amazing the number of comments suggesting doing something that Andy already explained in the video as to reasons why he can't do X. Are people not actually watching/listening to the entire video?

[@boomermatic6035]

I am working on a similar idea with the actuator but with smaller panels. It all comes down to pivot points and mount points, I will dig up a drawing and send it off.

[@markbrettnell3503]

When I built my original solar setup, my solar guy explained that the best way to figure out how big to size your system is to build it to provide enough power to get you through the winter. Then the rest of the year is Bombafest!!! Also just as an fyi Andy and community... I can say that putting your panels sideways is not as bad as you think. I have 4 275 watt panels mounted sideways at about a 30 degree tilt and get some INSANE WINDS ( I get up to 100 km p/hr gusts PLUS!!!) and they are mounted to the roof of my rv using custom built aluminum brackets bolted to unistrut channel. My trailer gets rocked but everything is still perfectly intact. Hope that helps anyone that is unsure. Also, If you are getting winds strong enough to rip off your roof with the panels, losing your roof will be the least of your worries. That would take a tornado or hurricane to do that and you can imagine the damage that would happen. If my 1987 built stick and tin rv can handle 100km p/hr winds, then your roof can handle alot more then that. Love the idea of the actuators but you might as well go a step further and build a sun tracker in that case. Pretty sure with your German ingenuity, you'll be able to figure it out.😁👍🍻

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with tilted panels. I really don't know what my roof structure is like in my case, so I'm rather cautious with such a setup.

[@ianpope7061]

I think you may have mis-understood the reason for calc wind loading. It has less to do with the frame supporting and more to do with the roof systems strength to support the load. So while the area of the panel is exactly the same, you would effectively be spreading the load across a wider roof area. Also, by more or less reducing the height by half (by laying them in landscape, you are also significant reducing the bending moments. Another side benefits is because you basically double the length of rail, it also effectively doubles the number of purlins you can fix to. BTW, putting 4x panels on the one incline....now that is a bad idea!! not only because you are concentrating the forces across a smaller roof area but the tilt frame to support it would need to be ??3-4x the size/weight... Also the wind speed/force 5m above ground is sig greater than 3m above ground......nah mate, unless you want to loose your roof!! If you are only looking at a small number of panels, then why no fabricate a solar tracking mount system? Edit: I am making some assumptions here as I am unsure your orientation of the house, but what if you were to set them up horizontally in an A frame arrangement - to optimally catch both the AM and PM sun. There would be a number of benetits which i am certain you would be aware of. The wind load on the roof would be identical! The area dedicated to your tilt panels would be identical.....but you would produce 2x the amount of energy!!! whats not to like??

[@Timb077]

I like the way you think 🧐. I would maybe find some round tube to mount down the center of each panel horizontally and fix each end so the panel cold essentially swivel 180 degrees on an axis, you could essentially track the sun all day. But this would mean having to raise the panels a distance of half of the width horizontally from the surface of the roof. Still it would allow double or more of the daily input.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. Well, yeah, that's all been explained in the previous and this video. The landscape orientation is actually higher then the flatter tilt installation in portrait orientation. That means I have to spread them even farther apart. Quite a few people have now sent me emails with their ideas and I have a good starting point, I think.

[@KevIsOffGrid]

You need a good angle to start the actuator, so the panel will need a spacer from the roof, otherwise you cant get the angle. Many vanlifers have had to lift the roof-rack to get the angle to start lifting with the actuator. You can tie to to the VRM, and install a wind meter into the VRM and have the panels close when the wind hits a certain speed.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, either a good angle or a mechanic lever 😊 Some actuators already come with a controller, light and wind sensor, so that should be relatively easy to setup.

[@MMMM2MMMM2MMMM]

Andy, you could install a lineair actuator with a single axis controller for these panels. When you choose the axis controller with the windmeter, the panels will lay down flat on the roof when the set wind speed has been reached. Woops.... wrote that while watching. You allready knew it. 😅

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, I have seen these one. They should work...

[@mjp0815]

Actuators yes! Great idea, and if you can get shading detection in node red to work, that would be awesome 😎

[@Christian76S]

Andy, if you go for solar tracking and it's only about winter time, use a fixed (average winter time) elevation and track the Azimut, if there is no shading by trees or anything else. Way more efficient.

[@regun2434]

Hello from Finland.. Yeah on some video you mentioned having +6c in the midle of winter and I looked my temp meters saying +6c in the midle of summer 😁 but you know this kinda partly coming from Germany. 😊

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, I know cold weather. But now, everything under 23°c seems cold and we close windows and doors. Below 20° - Fireplace goes on 😊

[@chrisroyle4813]

Watching with interest, turning out to be an interesting project.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, another unexpected project popping up...

[@chrisroyle4813]

The risk is of course, that your experiments with actuators are so successful that you might want to retrofit to the other arrays :D

[@soundslight7754]

First time on this channel, thoroughly enjoyed the discussion and detailed commentary, well done. Some comments: 1. I'm a career embedded software consultant but would use a low tech and reliable mechanical arrangement using scaffolding tube or similar as drive shaft with old bicycle chains and cassettes attached to it as needed, then one electric motor (could be on the ground even inside the shed) can drive all panels up and down together. Just for the fun of it, I'd add a manual control using a car steering wheel to create leverage and effortless operation. Using cheap proximity sensors (switches) in a feedback loop, one can detect failure and make it fault tolerant although don't think needed 2. Is it possible to give some trees a haircut? I realise some are very high already and out of reach

[@marcvandaele1878]

Your idea about the actuators is good,only in a very late stadium in your project If you started you should ask yourself what what you want to do,more panels or working with one or two actuators I will actually use also actuators but it seem that there issues with the reliability or I don’t know enough about it or did not enough research on it… I have also enough roof space here in the Philippines and will mount just enough solar panels or even i little bit less and mount a few panels on a pole and tracking all day the sun with two actuators if i am convinced about quality and reliability from the actuators Looking forward for your solution and comments about it

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It seems like the only option for me and my specific needs. I've got a few responses already from people and they have sent me their ideas. I'll show them in one of the next videos...

[@wg6215]

I just sent you a couple beers about a half an hour ago. Thanks for your very informative videos. Enjoy

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you very much, I will calibrate them carefully 🍺🍺🍺

[@bascomnextion5639]

Andy to reduce wind loading you can enclose the bottom of the panels so they do not act like sails. Those battens under your roof sheets are called "Top Hat Roof Battens"

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Looked up top hat roof battens and that's exactly what they look like. I also found some tables for that sort of profile where the outwards and inwards force is been show. But this is more for the metal profile itself rather than wind load.

[@biscoguy]

I added a comment earlier, and somehow it disappeared? Any way not certain what happened, sorry if it gets double posted. Hi Andy - First wanted to tell you thanks for your great videos. You have a fantastic way of presenting the content, and throwing in a little humor - Great stuff. I think the idea of including linear actuators for the roof mount panels is a great idea. I sent you and email that includes a simple design of how to mount the panels, and some info on wifi remotes for the actuators. The control for the remotes is via an app you can install on your phone, and then can be linked to Amazon's Alexa, or Google Home, I am assuming it can also be integrated into Home Assistant. With this remote you could program a schedule based on time of day, or weather conditions, or just manually adjust the panels. These remotes have the ability that once the app is installed on your phone, it can control several remotes / actuators. So you could install several panels on your roof, and each panel can have its own actuator and remote, and the control of these actuators can be done from a single hub. Another cool thing is that these remotes not to expensive, just around $20 USD.

[@billing100]

I put a drawing where four panels are lifted by 1 actuator. The panels are attached to the mechanism by which the lever arms (4 pcs.) lift each panel. You build the frame where the lever system is.

[@MrTiliasbrw]

Hello from sunny hot Greece 😀. You can avoid strong air forces by lifting the lower side of the panels and allowing the air to release. Because of the angle of the panels you can install from the other side of home roof also. Besides scientific research actuators will increase the installation and maintenance cost of your system and so there will be less profit from that installation

[@andrewradford3953]

I started building building 1kW(4 panel) trackers for one of my 10kW arrays. Up to 20% extra yield just for East West tracking was a big carrot. The local wind rating would have required some very expensive gearboxes. In the end, getting the panels producing before the 44 cent feed in installation window ended was far more important. Remember wind load is about how much suction a roof can withstand. Single oversize stainless roof screws for my tilts. If a storm is strong enough to remove these panels, extra screws would just peel off the roof with them.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

OK, great, thanks for sharing Andrew!

[@BeastMovies]

My panels are ground mounted but I like the actuator idea. At 5pm you could tilt them down to keep them safe from storms. I/we didn't go the more panel route, just the backup gen route. When you go offgrid and a pump runs or something drains all your power at 2am, there's no sun backup or a sunny day and the inverter trips is my fav, so no power.

[@plokijij7856]

The solar industry tried micro inverters back in the nineties, they weren’t very successful back then. It’s interesting that like trends in everything they are making a comeback. Like many people that have been into off-grid for since that time know the less electronics on the roof the better. Even dc solar panel isolators materials are not really designed for the extreme roof environment. What Andy is discovering is the limitations of every off grid system, the sun doesn’t always shine, the wind doesn’t always blow. Your location with so many trees will only reduce your solar output as the trees grow. Many low sun areas have their arrays mounted on a sun tracking system. One other thing, I recently spent some time in the fracture ward of our local hospital after my mother had a fall and fractured her pelvis. Speaking to the nurse she was telling me 80% of the patients are old men that have fallen off roofs! A broken hip at a elderly age can be a game over event. Just saying!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No other way to get the power back to the garage than this...

[@loptioflore5800]

Über das Fehlerrisiko von zwei Linearantrieben habe ich mir auch schon Gedanken gemacht. Meine, bislang theoretische, Lösung sind Gasdruckfedern außen, ein Linearantrieb innen. Hat den Vorteil, dass durch drei mechanische Verbindungen die Steifigkeit der Konstruktion erhöht wird und die Auslegung des Linearantriebs kleiner dimensioniert werden kann (Baugröße und Kosten). Ein Ausfall einer Komponente würde keine Schäden anrichten, optisch erkennbar sein und elektische Fehlerquellen reduzieren/leichter detektierbar machen.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, I don't like having several actuators for one panel. That's a potential risk. The panel needs to go on a frame anyway which stiffens the whole structure a lot. The panel alone is far too wobbly and will constantly move even in light wind. So this frame gives me enough space under the panel for a mechanic and mounting the actuator.

[@reoproedros]

you can leave a void between the roof and the lower mounting point of the tilted system so air does not get trapped under the solar panels and reduce the uplifting force

[@Timb077]

I agree, wind would flow more freely under the panels vs it being trapped from behind it, trying to force it upwards. 👍

[@ianpope7061]

This is a very good idea. Leaving a small gap significantly reduces turbulence.....something very difficult to calc. The gap only need to be quite small.....50-75mm would prob do it!!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, there will be good size gap at the front. But I still like the auto tilt system...😊

[@reoproedros]

​@@OffGridGarageAustralia i am interested also to see how that will go . if you go for that , are you thinking for rotating the panels also ? to get the maximum per day from an array of solar panels . i suppose you will need one third of the solar panels you need now .that means for the average user , less cost , less powerful inverters since you ll have more constant energy than the arc that producing the steady panels ,less cable diameter, since you wont need a peak as high to average the rest of the less productive hours , and less cables for interconnectivity , less space for the panels. i dont know why ,but i am thinking of an inflating balloon for raising and lowering the panels . and springs for not to have the mechanism to lift the whole weight of the panel array .

[@Zools_tube]

How about putting all 4 on the end of the roof, tilted at your preferred angle, some on the slope and some on the flat? If they are at or near the end you can simply add laths to break up the wind on the panels - a bit like a windbreak on the beach. The shadow the panels create would then be on your grass. Also all roofs are at their strongest where they meet walls or beams.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I cannot mount them so close to the edge of the roof though due to regulations (need to 2x height away from the corner). There is also only space for two panels next to each other if in landscape mode

[@InspectorGadget2014]

I would even consider going one step further than actuators. (I used them a lot for satellite communication) I would seriously consider automatic solar trackers, make the panels tilt (and perhaps swivel) towards the sun. Contrary to many believes, it does not have to be a complicated system...

[@keyem4504]

I have no idea about the mechanics, but I can't wait to see the solution. I might in fact try to reproduce it. Even though I guess the actuator might be very pricey.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

We will do it!

[@paulphone4767]

When you start considering projects like linear actuators, it's worth doing a cost comparison with a rated ground mount tilt or even full tracking system.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I don't have a place where the sun shines in winter to build a ground mount system though. This part of the roof is basically the best option right now.

[@HolgerNestmann]

Great Idea with actuation. I was thinking about putting like a polycarbonate sheet (the ones you can get a for a gewächshaus) on the back of the panels so the create little roof structures the wind can‘t get under. However having it autmated for the seasons is probably better

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I don't have WAF for such a cover around the panel. And it really looks ugly having such huge structures on the roof.

[@nextpvgeneration9953]

You can use pvgis to calculate the best angle to get the maximum energy in winter. In my case, it was supprisingly not 67°, which means 90° to sun and maximum power per module in middle of germany. It was 12° to use more modules, due to less shaddow, which is the lowest angle to get an self cleaning effect and which has low wind impact. In this case a sun tracker makes nearly no sense.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, that is a different usage when you use them all year around. As I explained, mine need to perform in winter. All other seasons, I have already enough.

[@InstantsOrdinaires]

Look like a good idea, you should add an anemometer so in case of wind gust or high wind situation your system will tilt back to full flat.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, I mentioned the wind sensor... for sure, that would be helpful.

[@Michael-AUS]

Andy, the weather can be unpredictable and a complex system of raising and lowering the panels is potential risk. For example, what if you're not home to lower the panels or, you simply forget to do it? Instead, why not build a ground-based system instead? Find a sunny spot in the yard and build a tracking system for maximum efficiency 100% of the time. Your roof will thank you for it.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It will be automatic with wind sensors as I mentioned. I have no ground area without shading in Winter.

[@jounik]

The orientation dependent windload makes sense if you think of it in terms of the wind trying to flip the panel over the lower edge. The force is the same either way, but the torque depends on distance it acts over and the leverage provided by the long edge is much higher than the short edge.

[@thebeaglebeat3615]

Actuator is a fantastic choice, one passive design, would be to have the 4 panels together configured Lateral side by side x4 or 2x2 = square at 40 ° ish, mirror the panels on the south side with something, maybe old solar panels, to create x2 40° sides, north side = working panels, south side old panels, = reasonably aero dynamic structure, passive engineering, but the sun tracking & lowering of the panels is a better idea, being active.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, right, solar panels building like a roof structure... It would be a huge construct though...

[@thebeaglebeat3615]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia agreed

[@Cagsjdr5]

Hi, I recently moved off grid and have been doing a lot of research into solar myself. And your video came up …good old KZbin algorithms LOL. I really apologise if you already know this… I’ve not watched any of your other videos. But I thought you might like to know… as Part of my research, I found out panels wired in a series which are impacted by shade and by shade, I mean even a bloody leaf on one panel … 😳🤦‍♀️will lower it’s power output considerably. that entire string of panels voltage gets reduced to pretty much the sum of one, or thereabouts. However, if panels are wired in parallel, then shading doesn’t affect them in the same way. The output remains pretty much the same. So, if all your panels are wired in series, then maybe consider changing the ones which are affected most by shade into a parallel array. Again, I’m really sorry if you know this already, but if you don’t I thought it might help. Cheers from sunny off grid W.A.

[@BadIdea1123]

if your AC coupled you can use multiple inverters on the output of the multiplus but you have to keep the total wattage below the VA rating. so you could connect the fronius your hiding in your shed as well as the micro inverter ;)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I looked at the Fronius but cannot get any information if this would throttle down with an increase in frequency. I would love to use it at some stage... It's an older 1.5kW inverter but can handle 2.2kW of panels. Would be ideal for the last free roof on the big shed.

[@BadIdea1123]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia you have to change the country code on the fronius to MG50 aka MicroGrid 50. the default frequency shift on the PV Inverter assistant is set correctly for the fronius settings. your current setup will work with it. But you can also use MODBUS tcp to control it from the cerbo, the interface will even add the fronius icons and show the inverter as a power source

[@cooltrkin]

Andy if you lay them sideways your wind load is half. That's physics. the higher your panel the stronger Your wind effects the panel. So sideways would be better. And RV Awnings have the automatic system on them. Maybe you could adapt that system.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you.

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, yes you have ( if you can ) to keep the eangle for your solar panel in mind for storms to put them as flat as possible as you can. the enginiering for that wound be that easy I'm afraid. wel lets see what the communitie come up with

[@rupe53]

My personal feeling would be to study other commercially available actuators such as those used on car doors and windows. They are sturdy and fairly wear resistant. Not that you would go out and buy them in particular but study the design and simplicity of how the mechanicals work and use those ideas. Solar panels are not heavy (except with snow loads) so a system of cables or solid linkage / levers could move a series of them from a single motor / actuator.

[@ToddDesiato]

I suggest using a stepper motor and a rotating shaft for the front hinge. You can then control the tilt based on the step of the motor, from 0 to 60 degrees, just like a tracker. However, could you take a look at the rigidity and protections required for single-axis trackers? You can't predict the wind. It needs to withstand strong gusts without bending, torquing, or twisting the panels, the motor shaft, or the hydraulic shaft. This REQUIRES a tracker to be mounted to solid ground for rigidity. Installing it on a roof is an engineering nightmare. While I think it could be done, it probably won't last a year. Wait what? Did you just ask for emails? You crazy man! LOL. Have a great day.

[@pragmaticcosmic2826]

Problem with Steppers is that they consume a lot of power just to hold position. Linear actuators are a better solution for this scenario I think.

[@greensolardiscussion1476]

Maybe try linear actuators. You could change the angle as you want. Even decide to tilt the last row very high for optimal production and lower the first row to avoid shade on the last row. When it storms you could just put them flat.

[@t3chn0w1z4rd]

you will need a long linear actuator with light torque or a short one with high torque. You could put the longer one toward the back of the panel, but a short one would need to be in the middle to get enough leverage.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

There are other mechanic solutions to overcome this. I also have to mount the panel on a frame first and tilt the whole frame, so there is enough space under the panel to get the necessary leverage. I hope 😊

[@RiggerBrew]

There are single or duel axis solar trackers available. Some have wind detectors to auto-stow in high winds as well and they would lay down overnight no matter what and then lift when there is good sun.

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

Nice video. Winter time is a challenge for solar, even with an optimal roof orientation. Lower sun, shorter days and more shade. To be honest, I think you need to get the roof construction checked out before putting more load and a complex actuator system up there. There are calculations for the optimal angle in winter time, but in general adding 15% to the lattitude calculation should be about right. One thing I would do with a large back yard is build a canopy or pool house with an optimal roof angle that fits the panels and raises them enough to avoid shadows. Another option is to use the panels in a full vertical setup facing north, and putting some nice white tiles (maybe even mirrors) in front of them. These things are huge, so landscape is a better option if you have the space. When using actuators, you may add factors that make this setup more vulnerable to errors. But I am curious how that would work, so by all means try.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts. I have literally no frees space on my property without shading. There is one spot, but it is far away from the garage and running a cable would be very costly or even impossible.

[@ZookeeperJohnG]

Andy, no room for an actuator under the panels w/o a complex linkage system. Might I suggest using a torsion spring (or two) on each to raise them and a cable connected via a pulley on the tall side to pull them down when needed... sort of like ____|\ ??

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The panel needs to go onto a frame first for stiffness purposes, so there is lots of space underneath

[@Pey5531]

Hi Andy, you could parallel 2 panels on each branch of the micro inverter. The wattage is irrelevant, only the max voltage matter, as for the current sure the max current is over spec with 2 panels in parallel during full sun but it is perfect for winter.

[@stefanvanzyl9090]

This specific microinverter has a maximum DC short circuit current rating of 16A - exceeding this means that the warranty will be voided and you risk unexpected mosfet behavior when the unit tries to switch off when tripping (grid failure, usually). You cannot overpanel beyond stated Vsc and Ioc limits.

[@Pey5531]

@@stefanvanzyl9090 the thing is it would never exceed 16amp in the first place due to the mppt controller. And I was going parallel solar panels or strings of solar panels I would definitely put fuses between them. There are mc4 fuses that you can just plug and play directly inline. Put 15amp fuses in there and problem solve. Or 2 8amp fuses in each parallel panel

[@stefanvanzyl9090]

@@Pey5531 mppt controllers are not even remotely as fast as you're suggesting here for transient events - and even a "quick blow" fuse would require 2x-10x the rated current to be able to blow in the milliseconds it takes to damage a FET. Damage also doesn't have to be due to a single event, but multiple events over the life of the equipment. You may think you get away with it because it's working now, but you cannot know the damage you're doing internally. The maximum Ioc is stated by the manufacturer because its a critical safety consideration - it isn't some guideline.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I cannot go beyond 16A Isc per input with this controller. Everything else would be a risk of destroying it. I know, in theory it may work but this figure is in the specs for a reason. Like for all other MPPTs as well.

[@Pey5531]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia looking at the spec sheet from Deye that micro inverter max Short circuit current is 47 amp

[@jacobthompson6403]

Would you consider a ground mount at the end of the house with the Eco-Worthy tracker. The big problem would be cementing in a fairly tall post.

[@pbasista]

A simple way to avoid strong wind forces on tilted panels is to mount them in pairs of an inverted V shape. That way the wind force acting from under the panels is significantly reduced. The obvious disadvantage is that you need twice as many panels.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

And they would point to the south which is not great down here.

[@davidmacbeth5575]

Andy.....where you live the chance of a winter storm is extremely remote. You said you don't need those panels during summer. So can you consider putting the panels flat on the roof during summer and tilt during winter. Only means going on the roof twice a year and would save the cost of actuators etc.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that would be possible... We can still get windy days in winter too though.

[@kennith.]

I vote for the horizontal ones also each panel reduces the wind shear to the ones in front. Also less shade.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's actually more shade now as I tilt the panels more towards the sun. They stick out higher than with the previous fixed tilt bracket. But I'll get there...

[@boatelectricaldiy]

Get actuators with feed back my man. That is how you don't break the panels. Really though, you should just build a frame that can take the force or the actuator.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I have to build a frame for the panel anyway. It is too flimsy and wobbly in itself. The single actuator can then tilt the frame. I've got some ideas...

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

Just had another idea about your setup. The micro inverters are a good solution where moving shade is an issue. You may want to use this micro inverter on a roof (or part of this roof) where shade is blocking part of the string most frequently. If you have some older less powerful solar panels, you may be able to combine a few of those per MPPT on the micro inverter without going over the limits. That way, you can free up a string inverter for these huge panels in a place where shade is not an issue. Not really a complete picture, but something to think about.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

As I said, I'm limited on how many panels I can connect to the micro-inverter/MPPT. I don't have any roof space or other space where there is no shading in winter. So this roof is the best solution.

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia what i meant is to use the micro inverter on existing panels with shade issues currently connected to a string. That may or may not free up an inverter, but improve performance with moving shade on another roof. I feel the micro inverter is wasted on the big roof, as some cheap string inverters can handle many more panels to compensate for winter. That way you can just fill up the roof without scaling up the AC side.

[@mikecaldera2912]

How's your Winter? Our Summer is Great in NYC but your crime is better. Keep up the videos and talk to your neighbor about bad hair products :)

[@Kwagher1]

i was waiting for something to look at and finaly some new from u :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Always something new from sunny hot Australia!

[@smokyatgroups]

Hi Andy, do you think a plastic Fresnel lens lying directly over surface of a solar flat panel could be used redirect & focus incident light rays without tilting? I guess charged plastic attracts dust though.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That would destroy the solar panels over time, I guess

[@jansmit4628]

You could lower the roof load by putting a full plate on the high side or placing a triangular plate under the solar cells (with the high side in the middle on the high side) guiding the wind to the sides.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Would you like to have 4 huge triangular boxes on your house though? No WAF and it really looks ugly.

[@jansmit4628]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Solar panels don't improve the looks of a roof any how. These panels are mounted on a flat part and the tri-angles are mounted underneath the panels. You live in a rural area where neighbours don't get eyesores from it. You self can see it probably only when you stand on a ladder or on the roof. The idea with manual lowering the panels will often be to late as windgusts surprise you. Doing it via sensors and an actuator will lead to a lot of maintenance. So a fixed wind blocking or diverting system is the best.

[@Timb077]

I love the linear actuator idea, however considering the amount of spare aluminum product it looks like you already have at home, why not just put legs on both the lower edges of the panel as well as the higher. For Instance, when they build solar farms there is no panel actually touching the ground, they are raised up off of the ground allowing wind to pass both over and under the panel. So if you were to raise the lower edges of the panel say 250-300mm off the roof this would drastically reduce the effect of the wind. Air will pass under and over from whichever way it's blowing. Plus the panels will stay cooler, less heat transfer from the roof to panels. May save you from having to spend unnecessarily. So instead of building ramps on the roof do it more like a table with uneven legs. Hopefully this makes sense.😊

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

If I raise the whole construct, I will even catch more wind. Someone explained this here in the comments.

[@Timb077]

​@@OffGridGarageAustraliawanting to tilt the panels in a westerly direction like this the only trouble with wind would be if it's coming from an east to north easterly direction. From that direction is where it will want to push the panels upwards from catching all the wind from the backside of the panels. Wind from the west will just create a bit of downforce, which isn't as bad for the roof. This is why I say having a gap under the lowest edge to the roof would allow wind to pass under and around which would create less lift. I had an interesting idea I wanted to run with using 4 small panels in a tilt set up. I took some inspiration from the plantation shutter blinds my partner was looking at while out shopping last weekend. Room for thought.

[@lyrapkfvl4374]

I'm interested in how well your micro inverter works. my overheat, I have dismantled it and have discovered that the thermalpad still have their blue protective foil, so that it does not conduct heat properly. and the capacitors are 50V so don't think these are made for 60V mine is a WVC-2800-life

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

We will see. I'm curious myself how good this inverter lasts.

[@jo4mil]

Hi Andy, what do you use to monitor these pv input power?

[@jstaffordii]

Easiest and cheapest solution is trim the trees shading Andy's garage to reduce shading on current 14 kw system

[@awo1fman]

The wind force on the panels is NOT the same if you orient the panels the other way, with the long edge against the roof. There are several factors, but the biggest one is that the moment arm is much smaller. But also, there is more turbulence closer to the roof surface and so there's less force on the panels anyway.

[@mario-q6k9w]

Yes. And maybe it is sufficient to close the first opening behind the panel where the wind has the most force. Every other panel is sitting in "wind shade" of the panel before or at least in it's turbulence

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks guys!

[@580guru]

I appreciate and share your dilemma Andy. Have you considered the potential benefits of using bi-facial panels in your actuator design? Perhaps sell the panels you have to a neighbor to offset the cost of picking up the bifacials?

[@camielkotte]

In the Netherlands wind diverters are pretty common on tilted panels....

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Good point.

[@markmmm1737]

If there is a gap at the lower part of the panel then the amount of lift will be reduced as the air passes though the panel. How heavy do you think the roof weighs? If the wind has lift on the panels then I'm sure it would just make the roof weight lower and not make it so negative that the the roof structure will lift and be removed. My not so greatly put together system has survived 2 storms and is basically held down by 4 massive screws. 4 panels so that's 1 screw per panel. Oh dear. I will change that but they still survived and so did the shed roof.

[@Juergen_Miessmer]

Hallo Andy, i don know how it is called in english.... Maybe the principle if a "Scherenwagenheber" will be the solution to lift the panels. But i'm not sure if the amount of work and money will be worth the gain.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, a scissor lift, you mean. I have something similar in mind, just with less moving parts.

[@GregOnSummit]

Have you cansidered putting a wind break to stop/slow wind getting under the panel?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No, it's too ugly and WAF = 0

[@mikeras7923]

Thinking ahead to summer, you’ll have capacity for so much more than you need, right? How about getting a few more air conditioning units to use excess power? Turn the Off Grid Garage into a meat locker! Haahaa. ❄️❄️❄️

[@Tropenhelm]

Hallo. Ich bin ein Schreiner aus Deutschland aber schon ne zeit lang in Florida. Ich würde die offene Seite mit Plywood oder nem alten Panel „verkleiden/schliessen“. Dann kann der Wind nicht mehr unter das Panel und wird darüber geleitet. Seitliche Öffnung auch verschließen wäre noch besser.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That looks far too ugly though...

[@jon6124]

it is possible to calculate the forces on the panels. for what the roof can hold, the residential timber framing code is where and how to calculate. unfortunately behind a paywall. however a quick search on youtube (or google for a pirate copy) there are plenty of examples on how to calculate. as for the solar panel itself, its max force will be in it's datasheet, same for the frame and bolts. with that info its simple Newtonian physics, F=MA. the failure point I would aim for, is that the panel breaks first, so as to not damage the roof. This may appear complex/hard but its not. I can do it easily enough with a year 10 education.

[@Carlicious-Parts]

you can overpanel it. just dont overvoltage it. so paralell panels , high aperage no problem. the microinverter will cut all above the max input

[@klassichd10]

Thanks again for that vid. What is about a scissors jack (Scherenwagenheber)? Compact, robust, available. But frankly spoken: One of the PV benefits is: No moving parts, Place and forget....

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, I have several options how to do the mechanic. Some viewers have send me some good ideas already. A scissor lift has a lot of moving parts...

[@klassichd10]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia but you can get the car jack scissor lift readily and even with 12V motor integrated. Of course, the less moving parts the better.

[@marlomontanaro3233]

Question: Why not turn your panels 90-degrees and tilt them (same angle) on their long edge instead of on their short edge? This would provide less shading on the "back" panels.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

If I put them horizontally with the same angle, it would create less shading in the pm. But I need to build 4 of these mounts instead of two.

[@Jonyys]

after the last video I mentioned about the sun tracker, I see you liked it. 😉

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, quite a few mentioned this along these videos. I'm looking into it...

[@maraisl]

Maybe use some car scissor jacks as the lifters and macguyver some motors to lift and lower. Not sure that they would provide enough angle however😂

[@clarencewiles963]

4 on there side with much more tilting. 😊

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

and longer shadows therefore...

[@gh45story28]

good performence broo....

[@roxychic367]

I would have put the panels below the current ones firstly. Then look to see if you could have two micro inverter farm if needed to compensate for the loss or just be happy and take the loss

[@bimmerboard]

Andy, it appears that you’ve got lots of yard space. Why not put the panels on a two-axis solar tracking mount? I’d love to see that project.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

How do you mount it? There would be significant amount of concrete base necessary to hold this down. Also, there are trees everywhere. The house roof is the best sunny option...

[@AndyM...]

Gee, I don't know Andy, you might be introducing unnecessary complexity with actuators, sounds nice in theory, a few things would worry me: the rigidity of the panel structure, with one actuator in the middle will there be enough strength provide adequate support ? There'd have to be multiple actuators one for each array, then the additional wiring and electronics for each. Hmmm I think I'd adhere to the KISS theory, just lay the panels flat, no wind issues, easy install and you then could add more panels to compensate for the less than ideal light conditions.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Flat panels is not an option though, as I explained. The strength can be achieved with a square profile under the panel. It's an experiment for sure...

[@Juergen_Miessmer]

​​@@OffGridGarageAustraliaI think you will need a complete frame, because the panels frame isn't stable enough to carry the torque forces. The single mounting point will enable the upper side to pivot.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@Juergen_Miessmer that's why I mentioned the square steel profile going from the left to the right of the solar panel. This should be enough to stay stabilise the panel. But I don't know, I would need to try it to find out...

[@Juergen_Miessmer]

​​​​@@OffGridGarageAustraliam sure - Only one rod on the upper end will not prevent torque forces to the panels frame. Hard for me to translate in detail - i continue in german: Egal wie stark das obere Querprofil ist. Die obere Kannte kann über den einen Befestigungspunkt kippen und somit das Panel in sich verdrehen. Bedenke, der Wind drückt in der Regel nicht gleichmäßig auf die Fläche. Es sind fast immer Wirbel. Du wirst nicht verhindern können, dass die Konstruktion auch mal eine Böe abbekommt, bevor diese eingefahren ist ...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@Juergen_Miessmer Yes, you're right. I have seen this today. If mounted only with one arm at the back, the corners wobble a lot due to the panels size and the panel twists in itself. Over time this might cause micro cracks in the panels. So I need at least two actuators. Not sure how to ensure they both work and if one fails, the other one stops as well. It is getting very complex here...

[@schunkelndedschunke6914]

Instead of putting 2 panels side by side, use only one panel with a higher angle and mount the 4 panels behind each other. I dont think your wind situation will be dangerous, because of the trees all around your buildings. They will weaken the wind force more than enough. If a hurrican accurs and breaks down the threes, than you have other problems, becauce no construction can handle it.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, that's what I'm testing right now (next video). I have experimented with different angles and found that the shadow gets even larger/longer when the panels are horizontally mounted and in an optimal angle. At least in the afternoon. I have to make a compromise at some stage as the roof space without shading is limited...

[@LordDarthNihilus]

Andy, maybe stupid question but why the 600w inverters? Couldn't you just use your batteries and 48v inverters to run everything?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's explained in the first video of this series. I still use the 48V battery and inverter. The problem is how to get the power from the panels back to the garage... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fprPk4t8eL1mgpo