Automate your Active Balancer to become a NEEY! (almost)

Thanks to one of my viewers, who made me aware of this this small nifty controller, we can now upgrade all capacitive active balancers and make them to act like the good old NEEY balancer. Very easy to connect and program, it can give your active balancer the 'intelligence' to turn itself on and off when you want it.
In this workshop, we have a look at this controller, how it can be programmed, how much power it uses at 12V, 24V and 48V and we also install it in the QSO battery box with the active balancer and manual switch.
(I apologise to everyone else who may have pointed me in this direction as well, but Glen's email was the first I actually read, so...)
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[@dustins4194]

OK, some good information... I'm coming back to tell you my experience with both. I've used the NEEY and I've used the active balancer above. The NEEY is superior in my opinion for my use. I have a runner. The runner is the ONLY cell that I need to focus on. I would imagine most people have this same problem (I see it on the DIY forum and Facebook a lot). I installed the NEEY and the other active balancer with the module you suggested in this video to make it act similar to the NEEY. I set my power supply to 57.6v and 0.2A and I let the balancers both balance the packs perfectly at 3.6v. I then put them both back into service and I've been monitoring 2 packs for a week, each with a similar runner. The runners both take off at about the same voltage, and they both act very similarly. One is cell 8 and one is cell 16, but other than that, they are identical (it's like the garbage company TaicoPower peppered the bad cells they had into some packs they are selling on purpose to get rid of them). I then fiddled and tested for a week, and I got them dialed in to activate at exactly the right time. The problem is that the regular balancer does not focus as much on the runner. It does not keep the runner at bay well enough, and the pack still shuts down from high cell protection on the runner cell if I try to charge the pack to 100%. Meanwhile, the pack with the NEEY coasts to the finish line and never trips. I also have the regular active balancer and voltage switch combo on a pack that is generally good, and it is amazing for a small deviation, so there's that... but for handling a runner, the NEEY is superior, HANDS DOWN. Your viewers could really benefit from knowing this information.

[@ruidias9622]

Did it and works great!! I had some unbalance that the BMS didn't had "enough time" to solve (during the last 3 months) ... that balancer with that voltage based switch did it in just 3 sessions of 2 hours. Thanks (& greetings from Portugal)

[@JayDee25895]

I watch a lot of KZbin and I find myself smiling more when I watch you more than anybody else, I pay so much attention I think I might need your tax number.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hahaha, thanks a lot for your feedback. That is great and makes me smile as well! 🍺🍺🍺

[@ludovicrebouillat3128]

Thanks for your videos, from experience I stopped using the NEEY, now I use this 5A capacitor balancer all the time ON which does not disturb my Daly BMS like the NEEY. It doesn't create surges like the NEEY when balancing my LTO batteries.

[@GTrainRx7]

That is exactly what I also couldn't find, for the LTO car battery project. Different reason (don't want any unnecessary draws) but exact application. Great vid!

[@patrickmaartense7772]

I ordered 3 pcs of active balancer and this relay as well, have designed a mounting box to put the two together and be able to use with the battery, self sustained solution, thank you for pointing this out, I will make the step files available to 3d print once finished and mounted

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Sounds great. Yeah, a 3D printer comes in handy... more and more...

[@matlebelge79]

Thanks again for all your videos. Thanks to you I have finally managed to have a battery and a system at the top in my little Belgium.

[@loucinci3922]

Thanks Glen. Thanks Andy. Very cool controller. Nice application. Thanks for sharing

[@chevrofreak]

I gave you the info for a voltage detecting relay on one of your KZbin posts weeks ago. I use the same one to control a 100A 240v breaker to turn off my grid tied inverter when my battery bank is charged.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, thank you. I just could not find a suitable one... until now.

[@TrevorFraserAU]

Ooh, I'm definitely stealing your hard drive magnet tool holder trick!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hahaha, they are great. I have another 20 faulty drives here and will harvest the magnets.

[@gilrand6224]

Hi Andy, the relay unit you are using looks very similar to the 'EZ-Relay' commonly found on Ebay. Program 3 (P-3) gives you the same function as the A30-U1 if I'm not mistaken. The EZ-Relay has several functions (8 including the display off timer). I use them for turning off battery powered devices (wifi, camera, wifi repeater) so they don't kill my batteries. The EZ-Relay has a strip screw header connection and a 10A or so relay. Should do the same trick for turning on/off the balancer. I would not have thought to use it in this application if I had not seen your video!

[@laurentsantaibambu7324]

Hi Andy, And Thank you again for this video... interesting this voltage detection relay.. it can be used for several functions...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, it can also turn on your charger when the battery is empty or your hot water system when the battery is full. Very universal.

[@SkypowerwithKarl]

Thanks Andy, great lead. I just snagged one on EBay for 12 bucks and it’ll be waiting in my goodie box with my Heltecs if needed in the future. I’ve got JK bms 2 ampers and they are handling things fine. JK’s and Neey’s seem to get the fine balance done much quicker than the Heltec. But the Heltec is still much much better than most resistive balancers. One very interesting note. Sometimes it better to disable the lesser balancer. They can actually counter act with each other. One balancer pulls down a high cell, releases to read the result while the other balancer tries to charge the one that momentarily dropped.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Good point with the two balancers actually. I never tested that 🤔

[@striderz69]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I have found the same thing - disabled Daly balancing and the active balancer could set up my cells perfectly.

[@asificam1]

That is where I would deactivate the Heltec unit... I'd use a simple set of MOSFETs and maybe an op-amp or some other inverter circuit to have it so the one balancer disables the other, and then just leave the Heltec connected whenever the other balancer is not running actively. Resistive balancers in my opinion have no place except for super low cost systems with closely matched cells... they usually need the cells to go full (or slightly over full) and then drain them back down... I'd rather use and active balancer instead since they can balance at any voltage (top, bottom, just leave it 24/7), and the capacitor based units like the Heltec probably take so little power that it would be difficult to measure so the quiescent draw is basically negligible.

[@olafmackenberg5018]

Hey Andy, habe diesen Volt Kontroller eingebaut - it's working - cool stuff. Tomorrow I will get rid of the Daly balancer in the 2nd bat. Thanks for this great hint!!!!!

[@FredericGuiot]

Andy, with your Cerbo GX, if you install the Venus OS Large Image, you could use Node-RED to read the voltage and control the relay for turning on/off the balancer. This is what I do with my balancers. Because I have multiple and also many other devices to control, I have added external,digital input and relays to my Cerbo GX setup. Actually I have now 16x additional DI and 16x relays. I made a post on how to do it in the Victron Community forum. Chers, FreD.

[@SebastianKessler473]

Sorry, i dont read your Post

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, the Multiplus, the MPPTs or the BMV all have such relays which can be easily programmed for the same function. I wanted an integrated solution within the battery case and avoid additional external cables and connections. I have several of these mobile batteries and can only imaging the cable mess it would create connecting them not only with the power cables but also with two more thin cables back to the wall. I've not done anything with Node Red yet and would need someone to teach me to get started.

[@heinzkassner]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Why not use a Shelly 1 for this application? It can handle 24-60v dc on input and has a "Potentialfreier Kontakt" xDDDDDDDD Grüße aus Deutschland

[@derfreiemensch]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy, thank you for that great video again, I feel the same way, would love to work with NodeRed, but since I'm already going gray due to my young life and also have a lot of other things to do, it's hard for me to get started. I would be totally happy about a video series where everything is explained step by step. There is well not only NodeRed, also MQTT Brocker etc. what you probably need, but you can then connect the weather forecast with the charging of the battery and likewise, for example, activate the Water Heater when a certain SOC is reached and deactivate it again, and so on. But as I said, who shows it to me and you??? Would you like to donate a case of beer, but am due to my former self-employment, which was not ended positively due to the economic situation and payment morale poorly supplied with pension and fight for every €. But I send you a lot of positive energy to make your life positive

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@derfreiemensch Yes, I'm highly interested in all this too and will start with that at some stage. It will definitely be here on the channel and we will do some workshops. Possibilities are endless with that.

[@celsworth1979]

Love your content Andy, very watchable and hugely entertaining, keep it up :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

What can I say, Chris?! That is insane. Thanks a lot! Big hug for your amazing support!

[@upnorthandpersonal]

To be fair, that thread on the forum did mention the solution in post #6 - there just wasn't a module over 50V available at the time (a year ago) hence the thread modifying it to suit the purpose.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I just saw the many many pages at the bottom and the photos of little PCBs and electronics people came up with.

[@upnorthandpersonal]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Conversations tend to go on, go into details, or just go off-topic. Usually the answer is on the first page in the thread.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@upnorthandpersonal Ok, thanks

[@soerensprenger8381]

Exakt wonach ich gesucht habe. Danke dir 😊

[@mariog5569]

Dito. Gestern den balancer in die EEL Box eingebaut

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Is geil das Teil, oder?

[@soerensprenger8381]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Absolut. Ich habe bisher den Balancer pro pack aktiviert mit einem Mikrokontroller und einen Relay. Spannungen wurden vom Batrium über Mqtt geholt (auch nicht direkt, geht nur über laufende Zusatz-Software). Allerdings ist da WLAN, Broker, etc dazwischen, kann also einiges schief gehen. Die nächsten Packs werden etwas Autarker mit diesem kleinen Teil hier 👍

[@calvinflager4457]

Just recently tired the NEEY. It would NOT connect to the app on my phone. So, maybe superior in terms of designed functionality, but worthless in real use for my situation. Trying the combination of the controller and active balancer to see it it does what I want. Thanks for all your videos.

[@chuxxsss]

Morning Andy, getting cold down south, 17 degrees yesterday.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

15°C this morning up here but 30° now again 🌞

[@daettnauer]

thank you for the vid, specially for 4S batteries, the heltec+voltage detection is much cheaper! i'm on the way to build a 4S lifepo4 battery for our campvervan, so your videos helped me a lot in small but important details

[@WildeandFreeTN]

Thank you sir!!! Adding to my new 302 builds

[@clarencewiles963]

Thumbs up 👍 let me tell you what I’m doing I have a EcoFlow Delta 2 it first goes to solar. If it’s not available it then goes to the grid for 20% up to 80%. I’m running my new ge refrigerator on 98 watts per hr. During the day it’s solar and recharging the batteries for overnight. I figured i might as well save some money on my electric bill. Thanks again for your work.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Interesting battery/fridge project. Sounds like one which will come up here on the channel in the not too distant future...

[@danfitzpatrick4112]

I use Home Assistant to do 100% of my Power Wall monitoring as well as my balancing, and BMS. Every parameter you can dream up can be done in HA. For instance, I could make a light flash or sound an alarm if my delta cell voltage was higher than the parameters I set.. Etc. Great vid though as always! I know many don't use Home Assistant

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I would love using it but have no spare time and starting with HA is not very easy...

[@danfitzpatrick4112]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes I have to agree there. It's not plug and play for sure... But it is amazing what you can do with it.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@danfitzpatrick4112 One day...

[@maxwhitby2287]

Yet another excellent video Andy continued thanks for your wonderful channel.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot, Max, for your ongoing support. You're the best!

[@netrocker9990]

You can also use victron mppt relay port,or victron mppts streetlight,load feature to control a external relay.

[@shanesummerhayes7101]

To add to this, you could also use the relay in a Victron BMV to switch at required voltage levels.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, I could use the Victron gear but it needs additional cabling which is not ideal with these batteries on wheels. I was after an integrated solution which stays with the battery. I have 3 such batteries (with more coming), imaging the additional cables just for that...

[@netrocker9990]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia agreed 👍

[@1over137]

I happened to be opening the kitchen window yesterday to hear, "BleepBleepBleepBleep" from the garage. I figured it was the temporary LiPo balancer whining about a single cell being at 3.70V again, the battery is only about 50% charged. Wrong. One cell was at the absolutely limit 4.20V. I immediately disconnected the panel and put a 1 Ohm load across that cell until it, thankfully rapidly descended under 3.7V. I kept that cell under a 2 Ohm load until it got below 3.6V and turned the panel back on. I then manually used the 2 ohm resistor to passively top balance the pack. My real BMS arrives on Saturday. Took 12 days to get from the other side the world to RoyalMail and they take nearly a week to get it the last 300 miles. Thankfully, I work from home. If I need to go out during the day, I have no real option at the minute to turn the panel off. :(

[@BajanAlan]

Voltage Battery Model 3 has one of the most sophisticated battery systems in the world. The most important way to preserve the high voltage Battery is to LEAVE YOUR VEHICLE PLUGGED IN when you are not using it. This is particularly important if you are not planning to drive Model 3 for several weeks.

[@john0270]

This balancer has my attention. Hopefully by mid summer(in canada) I will have all the parts to assemble my first lifepo4 battery for my little backup/offgrid system. It's already morphed into running some things stand alone(my natural gas furnace) I'm only getting about 70-80% efficiency charging/discharging my lead acid bank. Have about 500 usable Ah of capacity(to 50%)with some used/free golf cart batteries at the moment.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Nice project. As long as the lead acid works, you can take your time to setup the second battery. How much solar do you have installed?

[@john0270]

​@Off-Grid Garage oh sorry didn't see this reply. 4-300watt pannels, and 4 100w pannels. All I'm running at the moment is the 4 300's in two separate strings into two victron 100/30 charge controllers.

[@fjellfrank]

You already have many relays in the Victron system that can be programmed to switch on and off on balance at Volt or SOC You can program the relay on Cerbo, on larger Mppt which has relay, Quqtro and multiplus and more 😁

[@mariog5569]

Yes, perfect for the use of that balancer in my EEL Box with Seplos BMS

[@kevinmills5293]

Yes, and it’s not just Victron gear.

[@john0270]

This way it's a stand alone function of the battery though. The above would be fine for his battery shelf or other fixed/permanent setups. This way doesn't involve more wiring external of the battery case, or more setup when moving or switching charge sources.

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

❤

[@kevinmills5293]

@@john0270 fair point.

[@CL9TSXaccordEuro]

Hi Andy, I have a solution for automating the heltec balancer for those running a Victron smart shunt. There is a programmable dry contact on the 7XX smart shunts. Parameters…… 11 - ‘DFLT’ 12- Invert Relay ‘ON’ 16 - SOC ‘98%’ 17- Clear SOC ‘100%’ This will close the dry contact at 100% SOC and open the dry contact at 98% SOC. Run the two wires from your ‘Run’ point on the heltec balancer through this dry contact and your done….. works a treat. I have mine setup to drive a 2 pole relay, and I’m powering the coil through this contact via a small plug in 24vdc power supply, the contacts on the relay turn on my balancers. I can send you a video of my setup if you’d like👍

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, the MPPTs have relays as well which can be programmed to either voltage or SOC. The problem with this is to run the two extra cables from the relay to the battery. If you have more than one battery it gets really messy.

[@trevortrevortsr2]

Ahhhhh Andy I have been using one of these adjustable voltage-sensitive relays for about 2 years - a Brit narrowboat guy put me onto it - he set it up so that when his lithium battery is full it dumps surplus solar energy into one of their silicone-heated mats used in the auto industry, wrapped round his hot water tank.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, you can use them for a lot of scenarios. I like they work with all voltages of our batteries and seem to work very reliably.

[@trevortrevortsr2]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I've wondered what you dump your surplus solar into? The EV I guess

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@trevortrevortsr2 The EV is rarely at home and connected when the battery is full, so I have the hot water tank and also the ASIC miner, I can use. Both have Sonoff switches connected and I can control them from my mobile. I know it can be automated but I like to be in control. I'm watching my battery all the time anyway 🤗

[@wayne8113]

Thanks Andy

[@ennyw20]

Geil... Ich liebe es 🤣🤣🤣 Ähm.... ElektroTraktor....? 😅😂.. Da würde die so gut rein passen.... DoppelFrankenStein.. Neues Herz für den TRAKTOR!!! ❤😂

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

soon... just not enough time for all these projects...

[@ennyw20]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia ich weiß doch Andy.. Ich hab mir jetzt erstmal nen Drehmoment Aufsatz gekauft.. Du erinnerst mich immer wieder daran... Ging bis jetzt ohne... Mach weiter so und Pass auf dich auf

[@PlexMulti]

Nice video

[@CaptBill69]

Just found this clip and ordered one (voltage controller); as I have 3 Heltec active balancers to hook up to my 3 x 24 v 280 Ah battery banks ... to see if I can push my current safe 28v max charge setting for BMS resistance balance a bit higher.

[@marlomontanaro3233]

There is a similar device for measuring temperature and you can turn on/off cooling fans.

[@philipng6598]

It is a great idea. Heltec balancer that turns on at 3.465V is too early for LiPo batteries. This would be perfect for LiPo

[@SebastianKessler473]

Hey Andy, good solution but you can do the same with the relay in the cerbo gx. In this case you need a double wire between cerbo and energy storage. An than you can use the highest cell voltage to switch the balancer on or off (node red). Regards from Germany. P.S. maybe content for one of your next video.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's a messy solution using the relay of the MPPT, Multiplus or Cerbo as there are additional cables necessary from the device to the battery. I really like the integrated solution, especially when the batteries are kind of 'movable' like the Seplos or QSO. And imagine having 5 batteries... what a mess of cables!

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, slowly but surtanly you are more and more automating your power wall

[@bernd_unterwegs]

Great Video! Thanks fron Germany

[@chrisloving6647]

Signature solar sells a 48v voltage relay. I use it for dump loading

[@davegeorge7094]

Circuit uses a good buck converter to run the units cpu and solenoid power.

[@binauchich]

MP2 has a relay output. With that I did switch my balancer above a certain volt and off.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You can just program a voltage/SOC in the MP to close the relay contact. Same as with the Victron BMV and the MPPTs. They all have programmable relay contacts. This is another solution but I would not use it with the 'mobile' batteries as there would be another cable connection from the wall to the battery.

[@binauchich]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Oh ja right, mobile battery.

[@binauchich]

@Cracker F With the assistend and use the blue AUX Relay contact.

[@OrbOPic]

Hello Andy... Id like a $1 for each time you say the word " POWER" remember your working with electricity ( no form 18 here ) even though google is taking that affect on there members ;) can i show a little tolerance like 0.000001nf um your in a solar shed there you have solar panels with that you have a solar regulator an all of those have a standard feature where you can connect a pilot light (yes) an also adjust this to switch off an switch on...alls you need is a relay acting as a switch to automate as you say the active balancer which also won't suffer from electrotrolious. your doing good sharing what you know an promoting products an bench marking them... but in saying that could we see you create something like a simple relay setup for that balancer, you must have something in your Da(i)ly bin you can pull apart an get a relay out of haha ;)

[@hanskroeger6239]

Andy, just a comment for people using a Victron BMV 712 Monitor. They can use the Relay in the BMV712 to control the Balancer......Regards Hans

[@johnaweiss]

Beer is beautiful.

[@CaptainProton1]

I had those active balancers on my Li-Ion 14S 48v 18650 pack, it caught fire and all the caps exploded after about a week of use. Not sure I'd have it in the battery box bare. It probably caught fire from extreme amps being balanced when the cells were quite out of balance. I use the Neey for it now.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Interesting, I tested them for quite a while and could not find they are getting even warm. But I never used them with Li-ion. That is quite different.

[@asificam1]

Would be interesting to find out what caused the fire, maybe the balancer was defective or had a defective cap that failed short circuit, or maybe it was something else that failed. Probably a good idea to consider the use of a fuse on each balance lead so it can't go over current.

[@asificam1]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I have an inductive transfer unit on my Li-Ion pack (salvaged laptop batteries, LCO type, lithium cobalt oxide, you know, cellphone/laptop type cells). Technically, your pack is Li ion too, just a different variant, Li ion includes LiFePO4, LTO, NMC, etc. They work OK and are way way smaller than the flying capacitor Heltec units you have. However, they are more active than the Heltec units and they also need significant cell to cell differences to get started. Often the cheaper ones like mine transfer cell to cell not across the bank. So my 3s16p pack can transfer charge between banks 1and 2, and between banks 2 and 3, but not directly between banks 1 and 3. The downside is that unlike a flying capacitor system like yours, mine will stop if the stopping voltage difference is reached between the two bank pairs even if the 1 and 3 banks could still be balanced. This is because they're basically 2 2s balancers that are glued together rather than 3 2s balancers so each cell bank can be balanced together. At large scales this round robin approach would be very very impractical, but the upshot is that someone could come out with an active balancer chip that uses the inductor as part of a boost converter that will push a constant large current from cell to cell even at low voltage differences which would be good for your lithium iron phosphate packs and their flat charge curves... but I do not think that mine does this...though I have not bothered to measure so who knows? I think the capacitor based design might be better for larger packs with more cells in series, or if you have a weird use case where you balance different packs with the same balancer by taking turns... because the capacitors on empty cells would just do nothing. Plus I would think that the capacitor design has lower current draw when balance is close without having to shut down since they're literally an oscillator and a chain of MOSFETs and Capacitors... very very simple and possibly low current.

[@edc1569]

You told me not to worry about 2ah, I'm going to tell you not to worry about a little imbalance!

[@the_schmue2973]

Hmm. But a little imbalance every cycle can grow to a big imbalance

[@nicmate2543]

Ed C… and he used heat shrink tube on top of the insulated ring lug 😂

[@kentmh1972]

Sombody stole your intro music. His name on KZbin is Eric tennant. And his videos Are bad. I love your videos, super greate. Kent Hansen.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Kent. The music is public domain for KZbin videos. Everyone can use them.

[@Domingorparedes]

I've been looking for something like this to turn on the generator before the LiFePo4 battery disconnects from the hybrid inverter. Thanks Andy.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that can be used for that. Thanks Domingo.

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

Wunderbah Glenn. Did it maintain settings for voltage, relay 0/1, und Relay polarity after no power SITUATION?

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

Vielen Dank, weil ich befürchtete, dass es zu einem Standardzustand zurückkehren könnte, wodurch die Lieferung oder Schlimmeres außerhalb der Grenzen liegt

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, it keeps the settings after powering off.

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Fantastic captain....I'm very happy 😊

[@zaprodk]

Andy, did you put soldered wires into screw terminals? That's a bit NO-NO. Solder cold flows and will give a bad connection over time.

[@jebw]

Yes I was going to comment the same. I have encountered a fault that was quite serious caused by exactly this issue.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, we had this discussion many many times here on the channel. In this case it is totally fine as there is no current going through the cables and solder. It just measures the voltage. Only at high currents, the solder can get brittle and start falling apart. For voltage measuring, like balance cables, it is absolutely fine.

[@zaprodk]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia it's not the voltage or currents that give the issue. It's the pressure that the screw terminal puts on the solder. I have seen screw terminals carrying just I/O signals, no more than a few mA running getting loose over time. It's when high currents are involved it gets dangerous. In this application it's just a nuisance when it fails a couple of years down the road :)

[@mondotv4216]

I didn't think with those voltage controllers that you could use the same battery. It was my understanding they need to run of a separate dc power supply?

[@errcl65]

Heltech said the balancer can be left on all the time. Other than idle consumption, why not leave it on?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Lot's of videos on the channel with why you shouldn't leave it on. Hands on experiments and tests have shown to turn off any balancer below 3.4V with LiFePO4. Heltech probably is talking about Li-ion.

[@gleno2008]

Hey Andy I really enjoy your work, installed 6 gauge copper wire a quality brand from repco, only for the wire to oxidation at the lug , turned green from the inside , didn't know until igot a low voltage alarm on my inverter , im not near the sea within 6 months the copper turned green, I'm a noobie and soldered the lugs, I'm now crimping and using electronic oxide grease from a cansiray pack, my question is how do you stop your copper wire from oxide deterioration

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, never solder ring lugs, always crimp with a hydraulic crimper and it will work.

[@MistaTerps]

I am using one of these to utilize my excess solar to heat a tank of water.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, great task for it as well!

[@micropower8]

55,38V*0,024A = 1.33W ... not nothing. They have "Latching Relay Modules" with "Zero Power", this means they only use energy during switching the relay. It needs a 0.5 - 2 second trigger impulse with a current of 60mA and after this they only need 20µA. But I have the same problem in front of me, I have a capacitive balancer with bridged RUN-contacts and my solution is a STM32 board, a voltage divider to measure there voltage and a optocoupler to switch on the balancer. But the STM32-board (~20€ from ST) will do a bit more than only this.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The relay is only active for the time of balancing. And this is when the battery is full and solar is most likely abundant, so I think, 1.3W are OK in this scenario.

[@micropower8]

​@@OffGridGarageAustralia - Question: Do you know the best algorithm/method for balancing the battery? ( I have here a microcontroller and he is doing what ever I want. ) Should I activate the balancing every time if the cells are reaching more than 3.45V and deactivate it if the voltage is balanced or the current is flowing out of the battery?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@micropower8 If you can turn the balancer on if on cell hits 3.45V and off again once all cells are under 3.4V again, that would be pretty ideal, I would say. It all depends a bit what your charger settings are for absorption, float and so on. But 3.45V is just when the cell voltage rises, coming out of this flat area of the curve. So, at this point, it makes sense to start balancing.

[@micropower8]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia - Tank you for the answer. Right now I start to build everything up, I have seen your videos and buy a DALY BMS for 16 cells, LiFePO4 cells , a capacitive balancer, flexible terminals and MPPT modules. It looks like the balancing is possible at the top and at the bottom. This means I should do both? I think if the capacity of the cells is different (280Ah, 280Ah, 230Ah, 280Ah ... ), then I should simply stop discharging if one of the cells reaches 2.5V and simply load the battery if it is possible. Balancing would lead to a big difference if I try to load the battery full.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@micropower8 Do a top balancing by paralleling all cells and charge them 3.6V. Then connect them in series and connect the BMS. If one cell has only 230Ah, that will be the max you can discharge the whole pack to.

[@msacco]

Thanks for the video, I do wonder about it though, if the relay consumes around 88mah at 15V, if you don't charge your battery this could potentially waste quite a lot of energy. E.g - I use a 4S lifepo4 battery, if I charge the battery up to 100% then at some point the relay will be activated, lets say we set it to 3.45V, then we charge up, voltage reaches 13.8V(/4 = 3.45V), relay turns on. Then it continues until the battery is at 100% and meanwhile the cells balance. Once you stop charging the relay would likely still be on and meanwhile just waste energy until it consumes enough so we're under 13.8V and will then shut off.

[@kurtmiller7945]

No heatshrink necessary Andy.... aber was sind das für magnetische Toolholder ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hard drive magnets. I used to have a computer business and have plenty of magnets here from faulty hard drives. They are great for the workbench holding my tools.

[@vashcrazyhamster]

22:04 I have the same model of tool holder 😂

[@mobilemechanix1]

Thanks!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks for your ongoing support!

[@johnanglin4009]

Are you still replying to comments on here? I want to do this but I'm confused as to which two wires you are using from the balancer. I have the same 16s balancer with 17 wires for b- and b+1 through b+16. Which two are connecting to the relay? Thanks

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, still reading all comments. Watch this video here where I show and explain how to connect the balancer to a simple toggle switch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKHPk3R3ptOloNEsi=bo4Zu0TfB4iQZm4d&t=1088

[@bubbawubba2307]

@17:40 mark can we just solder the wire direct from control to balancer? Its confusing with all those wires attached to it and the film is sped up showing that part. I just want the controller to turn the balancer on. Thats it.

[@TheTurbotommi]

Why not using the programmable K1 Relay of a Multiplus 2 to switch the balancer on? 🤔

[@ComputingCode]

Can you please tell us what the relay conectes/disconnects? I see that it's connected to solder pads on the balancer. I understand that is their purpose, but what do they actually do? Interrupt the balancer's GND? Putting a relay on the B- cable would accomplish teh same thing? I am asking shince I found a balancer that does not seem to have those solder pads.

[@nikolaosvelissariou7107]

Andy, Why don't you use the relay in lynx Shunt?

[@foeke8740]

I have 4 sets of 16s 280Ah cells behind a seplos 200A bms and want to parallel 4 active balancers. Would it make sense to use just one voltage trigger measure relais? So parallel the internal switches from the active balancers? Or might I get funny currents flowing through the switch cables?

[@mobilemechanix1]

Thanks again! What brand of crimper are you using!

[@evboatconversion.electricboat]

If I recall correctly you had determined not much is gained by charging above 3.45 volts on LifePo4. And below 3.40 is problematic. Do you think it's best to have the active balancer only on during that short window?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's correct. I keep my battery on 3.45V for 1h (absorption time) to allow the balancer to do its job. That is usually sufficient. After that time it goes back to 3.45V (floating) and the balancer will turn off again.

[@todamnbad]

Can you post some recomemnded neey settings for the Mason 135? Everything I set it to causes it to shut off and I never get a good balance, it's almost like the BMS is fighting the NEEY

[@PlexMulti]

I had the same problems with rec bms when i used the neey for testing purposes Ive seen when it was balancing with t was raising the cell voltage to a high point where the main bms was shuting down the pack I used then another type of balancer

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Turn off the BMS balancer in the Seplos and let the NEEY do all the work.

[@todamnbad]

@Off-Grid Garage I guess I was unaware I had this control on the BMS, the wording they use on the setting in the software is so strange and confusing

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@todamnbad Yes, the software is not great. You can also set the start balance to 3.7V or so...

[@todamnbad]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia what is the balance setting called?

[@markmartinez9031]

Is it possible to have a LVD/HVD module to be the switch to turn on/ off the acyive balancer automatically? How to connect?

[@thegreenthing7603]

I will be doing this to my powerwall Can you pls tell me why i should not set the turn off at 53.6 (3.35v) or during float mode ?

[@jgatringer]

Danke!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot, Juergen. I appreciate your support!

[@peterw.4790]

Could someone please tell me why an active balancer should be turned off below 3.4V cell voltage? Sure, it can't work at virtually the same voltages, but why does it bother? Does it then go haywire or consume too much power or is it just a nice to have to be able to turn it off? Thanks very much!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hi Peter, the balancer should not run below 3.3/3.4V because once the cells go into the flat area of the curve, there is no differentiation between the cells any more in terms of voltage. If the balancer works all the time, it also balances the cells all the time and creates an imbalance over time. Once you recharge, it has to correct all this again on top what it has do balance anyway. The battery seems very unbalanced at this time and depending on how long you absorb or keep the voltage at this elevated level, the balancer may not have enough time to do its job. There are quite a few videos on this channel here showing the problem in all details.

[@dustins4194]

This is amazing so far! I do need advice. I put these on my packs with the JBD BMS but now I don't know if I should use static equilibrium balancing or keep using charge balancing with the JBD as well. It doesn't seem to make sense to use the JBD on charge balance if the auto balancer will just overpower it. Thoughts?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It does not really matter because the internal balancer is so weak, the majority of balancing will be done by the NEEY anyway.

[@Tex260Z]

Looks to be the goods. However, can somebody tell me where the hell I can buy a spare 4S connector cable for a Heltec active balancer please? Contacted Heltec, they just ignored me, frustrating, as I can't find them listed anywhere, and I can't even find the plug designation.

[@techmaster_sree]

Hi Andy, I think its not a good idea to place the cells like this since the pressure from once cell is going to another in current arrangement . referring to the time 21:53 . also for long term is it a good idea to keep these cells vertically, now you are using it horizontally. Is it good to keep the cells vertically ?. Hope you have already gone through these questions.

[@sidperry7748]

You could have made a flying lead from the active balancer and you would have only one wire to connect, it would still be in parallel

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, there is more than one solution to install it.

[@jimm7165]

Andy, is the blade fuse you're using for the voltage detection module rated for 48V? All the blade fuses I see are good up to 32V. Maybe a video of intentionally overloading one of those fuses would be helpful. Certainly interesting!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No, not rated for 48V. Will it work? Most certainly.

[@paulcurtis5496]

Like# 757, still no notification 🥲

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Try a different browser. Could be some cookies which are messed up.

[@thegreenthing7603]

Im having trouble with my battery 16s 100ah lifepo4 I have 3 abnormal cells.. these 3 cells are runners when charging and they also dipped too fast than the others.. the bms charging doesnt go beyond 54.4V Im planning to do this great mod of yours.. my question is.. will it still balance properly when i set the activation at 53.2v then turns off at 52.8v Just want to make sure before i purchase the balancer and a31-u1 My battery stops charging at 53.4v (rest) Thanks Edit: the bms activates the ovp hence i can only have 54.3v max charge(rest)

[@hanskroeger6239]

Andy, did you test how much the A30 controller setpoints vary with ambient temperature? I used a heat gun to warm up the controller and it seems to be very stable. This is no quantitative test and it does not include negative temperatures. Any idea ? Cheers, Hans from clowdy Germany

[@peterle987]

17:xx Sorry guy - you cannot !!! use tinned wire-ends into screw terminals is absolutly not allowed! Tin becomes viscous under pressure and the contact gets more and more bad. OK, there is no real load on that terminals - but it should not be done! For those purposes "wire end ferrules" have been invited. Never, never, never use tinned wires in screw terminals!

[@a68k_de]

ja, geniale Idee ;) Ich könnte es zwar noch über die Midnite Classic AUX schalten, aber intern im Akku ist besser.

[@ol_techdotph1141]

Hi Andy, do you mind sharing your wiring connection with the balancer? bit confuse on the manual of the voltage detection.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You mean the wiring of the voltage detection board and the balancer?

[@ol_techdotph1141]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes Andy😊

[@CaptBill69]

One Related Question that might be worthy of a Heltec experiment: Has anyone put two 5 A Heltec Active Balancers on the same battery bank to see if they could get more current going between high and low cells. ... Just a Wondering Question ...🤔

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That will work. You can parallel as many as you want...

[@uweknofel9149]

Hi Andy, following your videos I attached already a 16s active Balancer and ordered the volt detection tool from this video - great stuff 👍 Do you recommend to turn off the BMS’s balancer and using the active one only with the volt detection switch ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Uwe. You can leave the BMS balancer running as well, no problem.

[@roberthausler999]

would this balancer be usable on lead acid in a 4s configuration? with a smaller ballancer version of course.

[@thomasschmitt985]

Why do you not run the balancer always, does it harm? what is the reason for that?

[@karldingbat]

I tried to set this idea up on my 8s eve 280ah cells but as soon as the balancer turned on at a cell voltage of 3.45 volts cells 1 and 2 went totally out of balance by over 200 mv. Before the active balancer they were fine ????🤔

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Checked the cabling? Sounds like something is mixed up?

[@karldingbat]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia checked that, i did find a very low resistance between connections for cells 1 and 2, 49 ohms the rest are almost infinite resistance, there is a component between those 2 cells on the board, looks like a diode, ive removed it and now the resistance between connections 1 and 2 is the same as the others! Im wondering if something got soldered to the board by mistake, im now waiting for a sunny day to bring the charge up and see what happens. Just seems strange only 1 and 2 connections had such a different resistance from the others 🤔

[@GoatZilla]

uh, voltage divider, reference, and comparator?

[@matthewknight5641]

Why not just use the load rela on the charge controller?

[@catalinoentero6992]

Andy have you try the qnbbm active balancer

[@awesomedee5421]

Andy, one thing I don't understand with using this device is that if the LFP voltage curve is soo flat, you can't really use it to trigger off of like 50% SOC using voltages. It seems you can only use it at the extremes when the battery is almost full or almost empty where the voltages will start to curve. I'm trying to find a way to use the controller to switch between grid power priority vs battery priority when the battery is at some specific %SOC level considering I don't have that feature in the inverter.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, as we have tested here on the channel, the voltage is really only rising at around 3.4V and then you're already 95% charged. Same on the other side at around 3V you're over 95% discharged. In between you cannot use voltage to determine the SOC of the battery. You need to use a shunt with a relay which can calculate the Ah taken from the battery to determine a certain SOC in between these two 'extreme' points.

[@odoohub5010]

can we install a bms with a passive balancer together with an active balancer?

[@deloy82]

Hello Mr. Andy , can i ask which one is better Active balancer 5A and smart active balancer 4A?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Both will work but have different pros and cons. The Capacitive balancer works on voltage difference (the higher the delta, the higher the balance current, up to 5A), the NEEY does always 4A regardless the delta but works only on one cell at the time, while the other one balances all cells at the same time but has no voltage start settings as the NEEY... If you can, get the NEEY. I've got links on my website where to buy: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/

[@The-JMartian]

I think I could use the load port in the controller to turn on and off the active balancer

[@dennydewaal137]

I want to make a remark to the people of China, ho all made a contribution to all of us that use your products..and help us out.. Many thanks 🙏 China Toys for watts . Use them for overcharge protection for his lead acid batter’s.. in combination whit windturbines.. fun channel whit nice data

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

And they also make our batteries and BMS. And clothes and most other things...

[@dennydewaal137]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia it’s a pity, how the world of today is going on the way it is.. but let it be known that the people with common sense ( we are many) stands behind the force that inlichten the pad we all walk on. Evolution is a slow process.. and justification is at the end of that road .. it wouldn’t be necessaire , if we would applied it .. but for the time, it’s great to be a part of the miracle of creation 💪

[@mflo1970]

Las baterias de litio son muy buenas el problema que veo con muchas es el balanceo ,la desconpensacion se produce en todo tipo de baterias ,pero pienso que al montar un banco de baterias que vale mucho dinero es una cuenta pendiente que tienen los fabricantes