Offline MSM 233 - CLG | Void (Shiek) VS Sparg0 - (Cloud) Winners Final

[@keilo2saucy_ttv51]

I stg Void’s hair stay looking like he just got done blowing up explosives 🤌🏽💣💀

[@percyhawkins5825]

Lmao bro real shit it honestly doesn’t make sense for him to allow his head looking like that. My grandma would snatch my ass up so fast if she saw my shit nappy like that 😂

[@voodooedits785]

6:51 Ah yes a sheik string does 27 across the stage and a weak hit of cloud up-b and a getup attack does 20 you love to see it

[@Snowballsage]

Shiek forward air is significantly more safe than cloud up b

[@voodooedits785]

I know that

[@asqwert2121]

My thoughts exactly, she needs a dmg buff

[@willycheez7218]

@@Snowballsage Cloud Up B is also like the best out of shield option in the game, has a huge disjoint that beats out everything and has a landing hitbox. If you miss a move as Cloud and they try to punish you, just use Up B because it'll annihilate whatever they try to punish you with

[@lordsozehcp5362]

@@willycheez7218 the move is so god damn lame man... seriously broken

[@TheB3AP]

Void was dominating most of the time of the matches and wasnt able to win any game, give some mini buffs to sheik!

[@vvirtualvviolence283]

Seriously, it really does suck how much he has to work to get anything in, and sparg0 just needs 4 good hits and a dash attack to take stocks

[@BearTheGrudge]

As it should be. You can’t give a character amazing frame data AND a great combo game AND good kill power. That’s how we get joker with Arsene.

[@benjaminshannon539]

BearTheGrudge not as it should be I think that she needs to be given at least a good back air and a slightly more damaging lilts or forward air(not both) and she will be where she needs to be cause right now she is weaker than joker without arsene

[@ellachino4799]

Naaah sheik doesn't need that

[@rinktheredlink9317]

You gotta be careful buffing sheik. If you buff her just a bit too much she's broken

[@quantum6637]

Damn, Void had game 1 and 2 but lost both due to him dropping his kill confirms. 3:48 and 7:28

[@williamw8590]

He's usually so consistent with them too. I think spragos di was throwing him off a bit

[@johnkramer2144]

@@williamw8590 maybe because he’s not used to people having the DI mixups that consistently? I only say this cause this was the first kind of stacked in person tourney he’s been to in a while.

[@sullivanish]

Isn't it harder on ps2 cuz the platforms are a bit higher

[@perc2517]

Is it just me or could he had just finished it with down smash/ side smash (depending on which one is faster) instead of continuing to do the drag down thru the stage? Genuinely asking since I don’t play sheik at all but it would seem optimal imo it just seemed a bit greedy

[@sullivanish]

@@perc2517 yes he could've I remember watching sharp do it online cuz online is harder but even still he probably should've done fsmash or dsmash if his second drag down is crusty xD

[@owceania]

God just give Shiek like 1 more percent on some of these moves. It’s so painful to watch Void put in six moves and get only like 20%.

[@ipitythefool1212]

She doesn't need damage.

[@Im0nJupiter]

Idk if I agree, her damage output is probably at par with a lot of top tiers, but a lot of her kills are dependent on uair set ups that are very hard to get consistently. If Void had landed those uair drag downs through the platforms to usmash, this set would have gone very differently.

[@0Actionbastard0]

The thing is, once she starts them, they’re pretty much guaranteed just like Cloud’s cross slash. Buffing her would easily make her OP.

[@Bladieblah]

​@@0Actionbastard0 That's only if the Sheik knows how to continue in the right way and only if the right hit is landed. Other top tiers get way more damage if they optimize their hits in a similar way, Wolf and Roy can easily get 40-50 from a falling aerial where Sheik would get 20-30 somewhat easily. DI, SDI and rage all come into play as well making it far from guaranteed. You're also forgetting Sheiks good damage is only at early percent and Cloud can actually combo into cross slash. Back-air into crash-slash at 0 is 40%, Sheik needs a grab, a platform and really tight execution to get even close to that. Sheik has lower damage overal, than most characters. She doesn't have range or disjoints, she's incredibly fast and has the safest aerials. All in all though I think she's a tier below the best characters and really hard to play on top of that

[@BoneyGaf]

That up smash buff is indeed crazy. Been saying it for over a year. Giant, fast and really strong.

[@willycheez7218]

Bruh it didn't need a buff in the slightest, it's already lagless

[@zemotika]

As a cloud main I will say it’s his absolute best kill move, it’s also really good out of shield

[@emmanuelthome9509]

Sheik is so weird, she does incredible cool combos, but the damage is none

[@ZER0O9]

Sheik would be broken with higher damage output, but she needs it ngl.

[@emmanuelthome9509]

@@ZER0O9 I know, but It Is still funny

[@retierashia]

She’s a really difficult character as well. Too much work for so little damage.

[@averagejoe9229]

Problem isn't low damage, but unreliable kill power.

[@mehgamer467]

@@averagejoe9229 she has a ton of kill confirms. Her damage is more of a problem, but she jusy has to work harder which is fine cause her neutral is one of the best in the game.

[@Jero1020]

Spargo is like a pro player on Adderall, what is this Neo-awareness, have you figure it out spargo? Did you crack the Matrix? Geeze

[@nimblen8]

Game 1 void was winning cuz spargo kept commiting to those falling aerials and void ran up and faired him. However void kept doing those fairs in place while spargo adapted and baited the aerials, dashed back, and void ate cross slash for 20 or a backflip falling fair for 15. Void shoulda overshot the dash backs more. In other words void made his burst range too obvious and predictable. Void shoulda dashed back when he whiffed an aerial cuz spargo kept throwing out preemptive hit boxes like dash attack to catch void running at him 3:15

[@nimblen8]

Watching games 2 and 3 it’s much of the same. Spargo used a mix of empty hops and backflips to bait out approaches and just let his side b rip. Void in game 2 held in to land and tried to land with fair but spargo just faired and dash attacked it in. When void tried to drift back on his first stock on game 3 spargo read it and baired him for it. Spargo had a feel for when void wanted to jump from ledge and just dashed attacked him like 6 times for stocks this set. Spargo was in voids mind. Void anti aired correctly but spargo hard adapted. I could see instances of void waiting to dash attack which he got, but sheik doesn’t have Wolf or palu dash attack where it would kill at 130. Also void tried to parry a lot but just missed timed it and got baired offstage cuz of it. It was unfort but spargo just outplayed him on too many fronts. Spargo s ledge trapping was superior to void and that’s where sheik loses a lot of mu’s cuz her disadvantage while being ledge trapped is p honest relative to the rest of the cast.

[@Gurkan790]

All that too but Void on the other hand missed some important kill confirms as well. Probably wasn't used to play tourneys again or against consistent opponents like Spargo

[@nimblen8]

@@Gurkan790 he missed two raindrops, a couple edgegaurds, and was preemptive with his nair tech chases. ur right void flubbed a lot of potential kills there

[@castsmeteor3]

Yes. As a person who plays this match up all the time… very yes. This game comes down to adaptation. Not “Sheik needs buffs”. Shiek is insane. Cloud is as well. Void is a amazing player. So is Sparg0. I can see this going either way any day

[@letsdraw3014]

Spargo is a reactive player. I'm quite sure he'll be in pgr soon enough!

[@thickfrog5177]

You should be a betting man

[@noctusion2392]

You predicted it congrats

[@tenenbaummark]

Damn, clouds up smash killed void at 82% at one point. He had some rage, but still. Thats so strong for being such a fast option. I know sheik is light too

[@Snowballsage]

A set he had against void was how I first found out about sparg0, cool to see a rematch

[@HIKAJO]

This video clearly shows that sheik deserves a decent buff

[@BN99239]

I would really like to see Void play a heavy hitter. I know he loves the quick, nimble characters but they take a lot of work and after like 7 hits, the opponent is at like 50% lol. It takes a lot of focus to keep landing accurate hits after hits and also having to finish off stage a lot. Let's see you play a heavy hitter Void!

[@josetejeda6471]

Agree!

[@coveredinrice5341]

It’s not lookin good for shiek considering how incredible void is

[@frontseatdevil7831]

I know… her hits do like 3%

[@erickalvarez6486]

@@frontseatdevil7831 that's the whole point of her, she can outframe you pretty easy, it wouldn't be fair if she hits you with "10" average.

[@SeriousStriker]

Nah, that character is stupidly good. Sparg0 is just the better player now. This is a bad MU for Cloud.

[@Simon-hs7ik]

spargo is just more incredible here

[@025cark]

Now I understand why Tweek hates her so much.

[@sizzle9000]

I know it's basic Cloud stuff but I find Sparg0's awareness at 10:24 so impressive, knowing that he's just about to get Limit with one move, so he true combos the bair into the cross slash. It's little things like that that show why Sparg0 is one of the best out there

[@parisrealick]

Bro every cloud main know that stuff lmao

[@sizzle9000]

@@parisrealick I admitted it's basic Cloud stuff but I still find it impressive to have the composure to be aware of it in a winner's finals set against one of the best players in the world..

[@marin9412]

2:41 yeah, that was not fair, that was uair

[@Dontannoyme34894]

voids hair looks like clouds hair lol

[@gavenlarson7471]

Is spargo not sponsored anymore?

[@dadonutinator]

I don't think he ever was?

[@Anonymous-tt1cv]

@@dadonutinator he was a part of xtr but not anymore

[@teyvionr]

Void actually made a video about the auto cancel landing. Spargo used a AC back air into up smash 🤯🤯

[@musicdev]

I’m convinced that no one knows how to spell Sheik

[@retierashia]

Sheik is a beast at playing Void.

[@_sunspy]

Void has to land setups to have a chance at taking a stock, meanwhile spargo can just raw up smash. Both are great players but their characters also work very differently.

[@xial_4930]

Welcome to Smash Ultimate. One of the most meritocratic games up there

[@Im0nJupiter]

Sheik is really really good! I think people see her BnB easy hit confirms not doing much damage and think that she's bad, but her neutral wins are pretty free AND and her best spacing tool is her best combo starter (especially fair->grab at low percents, fair->f tilt->uair drag downs, fair bair, fair bf at the ledge for a kill, fair needles bf to kill, etc). I really don't think her damage is the issue. If you increase her damage, then what? She has to win less times in neutral to do the same amount of damage. The issue would remain--she still can't convert neutral wins into kills, so she'll still lag behind other characters. If anything, she needs the smallest change to her frame data that allows uair combos to be performed easier. Maybe increase hitstun just a tiny bit, or reduce landing lag slightly (without creating easy infinites by accident with f tilt uair drag downs). Basically, similar to Jokers f tilt uair/uair drag downs, where dsmash is a pretty easy confirm without plats and usmash is an easy confirm with plats.

[@justice8718]

Sheik is like Inkling and Marth. Incomplete. They will gladly give absurd more kill power to wolf, but they won't give characters with iffy kill power and significant flaws buffs to their most important advantage/neutral tools that will allow them to take stocks.

[@sethandrews401]

Sheik and Chipp same character.

[@chandyboy10]

Where is this msm?

[@Flare8295]

Sparg0 with a clean 3-0 let's go

[@wesleyverity7310]

Just wait for the game changing shiek buffs

[@barusamikosu2578]

I respect Cloud players, but it is juts to painful to watch what other characters have to do just to make a 20% damage, and killing like at %140 percent.

[@Hector-junko]

Anyone get this vid recommended after hearing the news of MSM ZERO??? 😁

[@lokks2130]

if all of your kill options are extremely situational and not really "scary" then it doesn't really matter if you win a lot of neutral. i don't have any reason to respect you when at kill percent whilst I have a dash attack that kills sheik only low high tier tbh.

[@lokks2130]

the problem with her was never really damage output, it's just the raw strength no stray hits that you need to respect really.

[@tendonoentiendo3809]

He should just play joker, he’s literally just better sheik.

[@Simon-hs7ik]

Tbh cloud is worse at killing than sheik, void just got outplayed here. Needles is a scary kill confirm option. You also have to respect every one of sheik's moves that send you offstage, especially considering how bad of a recovery cloud has.

[@025cark]

So is Cloud high tier, btw this is a losing mu for Cloud.

[@tendonoentiendo3809]

@@Simon-hs7ik …f tilt, up tilt, back air, up air, limit dash, dash attack. Not to mention every smash attack after 100. But yeah, needles is “scary” at kill percent.

[@Cayden.1]

Void really needs to bring back Mythra. She has a similar neutral and mobility of shielk while Pyra has sinilar kill power of gannon. She would've done much against Spargo than Shiek did that's for certain

[@sullivanish]

I think void likes playing sheik against swordies tho so I doubt he was gonna switch to pyra mythra for cloud

[@voodooedits785]

He says shiek is very good against cloud

[@victorortega1036]

I still don’t understand why Void doesn’t simply go back to playing Pichu 🤷

[@elefanamir9087]

After the Pichu buffs that’s a good question

[@kuuja4345]

What is this yee haw smash menu music???

[@Blastros01]

Shiek looks cool while doing no damage that's the problem

[@zer0cx110]

dang. I think cloud is too tier, but shiek should have won those matches. Shiek just can’t keep void off stage man…

[@pablo3318]

Sheik need a good kill comfirm

[@bibbyboxx2219]

She has plenty. If she needs anything, it’s a better hitbox/more knockback on bair, and more weight.

[@warrenlwolfe]

Shiek needs some *slight* damage output buffs

[@007alztruli]

Why would a character whose basically every touch is a set up for multiple hits both on stage and off stage, who has nice kill confirms, who has great off stage recovery and is great at edge guarding need buffs?

[@rsdmusic6325]

@@007alztruli Good kill confirms?

[@007alztruli]

@@rsdmusic6325 She has kill confirms off all kinds of moves aerials, F tilt, D tilt, needle, drag down etc both on stage and off stage

[@fullysemiautomatic5618]

@@rsdmusic6325 shiek has a ton of kill confirms with dtilt, f tilt, needles, nair etc you even see voidiss a few confirms this set he should have won

[@Simon-hs7ik]

then she would just become better S4 sheik

[@noblepursuit591]

Everyone saying that sheik needs buffs, but then they will take it back when they get faired across the stage and take 50% in unavoidable damage. Her frame data and combos are too good. Also, are we going to ignore how early Cloud died on the first stock?

[@DeeJayPancakes]

All I'm saying is void could've won if he had a sword😂 them thangs are stwong

[@tinor9591]

Sick set. Void seemed a lil nervous or something its g we’ll get em next time

[@yatoanimetops]

shiek is nuts

[@178laaleros]

SparGOAT

[@Luckyhikes]

Smash pro dominates content creator 3-0

[@theolong6689]

Buff Sheik!!

[@melsmendez3132]

Okay, Void did it amazing and he lost because Sheik does 120 hits and takes only 20% of damage, but Sparg0 really did it great in this set! Congratulations to both players!

[@AeroTunez]

I never knew Void used "Shiek"

[@jasonlobo2350]

7:35 and this is why i hate smash xD wasnt even his turn and pum random Upsmash void basically receive the wakeup fatal blow treatment from MK11

[@Kapito22]

He just react

[@fusi0n_203]

smash isnt a turn based rpg bruh, void just overextended with that fsmash and sparg0 punished him for it

[@DarKiRage.13]

What logic is this?

[@parisrealick]

@@Kapito22 No he didn't react. Shiek's fsmash is frame 12 that's too fast. Sparg0 guessed. That's all

[@Kapito22]

@@parisrealick Top players are prepared for a lot of situacions i think the most probably is he reacts to the f smash of void why he expect some agressive option in that situacion, if not maybe he throws the up smash to cover aggresive options like grab or dash attack so yeah he could guess but i think it was pretty risk to be that

[@jamisonsmith7985]

Shiek doesn't exist

[@jerriemaese4771]

Yeah as soon as I seen sheik vs cloud yeah sheik was gonna get molly wop

[@bibbyboxx2219]

I don’t think it’s a particularly bad matchup for Sheik, VoiD just wasn’t playing as well as Sparg0 and missed some key edgeguards.

[@jerriemaese4771]

@@bibbyboxx2219 I'm pretty sure it would've been way different if void pick a better character people overhyping shiek. She hit you like a billion times and does 40 while cloud only has to do back air cross slash and does like 50 percent? Yeah idk bruh homie void need to switch.

[@live2die694]

He didnt even get molly wopped :/

[@live2die694]

@@jerriemaese4771 just because sheik takes more hits to deal damage, doesn't mean shes a bad character, I dont understand that logic

[@bibbyboxx2219]

@@jerriemaese4771 That’s an oversimplification. Yeah, Cloud’s moves do more damage individually, but Sheik’s neutral is way better so it’s easier for Sheik to find openings.

[@gatolf2]

Both of these players are absolutely amazing. But are we gonna talk about how void lost because sheik is trash? Lol

[@StretchDub]

Is Sheik's main problem that she struggles to kill in this game?

[@goslingbro]

With that frame data you are cracked out of your mind to think sheek is actually trash

[@dellonhenry3481]

Sheik is a high skill cap character the fact that u think this shows where your skill is at😂😂😂 void lost because he dropped atleast 6 kill confirms and went for greedy smash attacks that spargo just shielded and punished with upsmash

[@sebastianandres6802]

Dude sheik is actually crazy good, her only real problem is killing

[@mmmmgood7318]

Void underestimated spargo

[@danieldancer4065]

Wow this game really takes no skill.

[@redfieldwong717]

Get out

[@elefanamir9087]

Can the commentators please not wear masks? It’s grating on the ears to listen to them trying to breathe through a mask and their muffled voices.