Panama vs Thailand (Which is Better?)

[@robertgillies9382]

I have lived in Panama for 25 years. The problem in Asia is the language. One can easily learn Spanish but Asian languages are quite difficult. Panama uses the US dollar. The other thing is that I obtained citizenship in Panama. I don't know if you can in Thailand. Also I live near the border with Costa Rica so I can enjoy Costa Rical. In addition i go quite often to Medellin in Colombia. Having become fluent in Spanish in Panama opens the door to orher Latin American countries as well. I am happy in Panama.

[@scottfree993]

No issues with dual citizenship?

[@billhennessey6374]

I have had permanent residency in Panama for almost five years now and I absolutely love it. The people are wonderful, costs are a lot lower than they are in the US, and I have no intention of leaving Panama. I know lots of Canadians and Americans that have lived in Panama long term as well. Those who leave Panama and return to the US and Canada tend to be those who don't bother to learn Spanish and have difficulty assimilating.

[@aidannewton]

Couldn’t have said it better myself. I did the pensionado visa process for my family of 3 in Panama and we lived there for a year and half. We got very tired of how expensive it was and how we had to import anything we needed from the USA because shopping options are much more limited in Panama. We left to travel south east Asia last August and can definitely say, as a whole, that this is the place to be. Much more affordable cost of living. Loads of shopping options. Amazing food. Better services. Impeccable health care options. My 4 year old daughter broke her arm in Vietnam and we went to a public hospital and had a great, and very affordable experience. We did the follow ups at two different private hospitals in different cities because we were travelling the country. Still both visits were very affordable and state of the art facilities. We couldn’t have been more impressed. My wife also visited Prince Court Medical Centre in Kuala Lumpur and it was state of the art as well. We only wish there were more visa options to live here long term. As I am retired young from military service with full pension due to medical release and injuries in line of duty, none of the Asian countries recognize me as retired because I am 34 and they have an age requirement of 45-50 for retired consideration.

[@arnoldjohnson3317]

It sounds like you are more on disability than retirement income.

[@newamiga]

We have out permanent resident visas in Panama. We got ours under the old Friendly Nations program. It was easy. We lived in Panama for about 5 months. We ended up moving back to the States for a number of reasons. One of those was some existing health issues. We traveled to Thailand this year and absolutely loved it. I think people have too many preconceived notions about Thailand being underdeveloped. Bangkok has a far more functional, safe and clean mass transit system to get around the city than anywhere in the States. The food is incredible in Thailand and is very affordable. The shopping malls are better than just about any win the States. You didn't mention the retirement visa in Thailand and I believe only mentioned the Pensionado visa in Panama. Either of these are decent options. Also the new DTV visa in Thailand opens up possibilities to early retirees (under 50) as well as people who can work remotely. In the end I would agree that Thailand wins hands down. As we look at the two, we will keep our Panama residence visas current (need to visit every 2 years), but I think if we do make the longer term move, it will be to Thailand and more specifically to Bangkok.

[@truthseeker9454]

I visited both countries last year. Since this analysis is largely anecdotal I'll offer mine as well. Short disclaimer - I do not wish to insinuate these brief observations are comprehensive. I could write much more, both positive and critical. But no one would take time to read them. :^ ) I also don't imply some generalizations below are without exception. As it stands now, I intend to relocate to Panama, for reasons partly listed below. We'll see how many years I remain there.... Thailand First (18 hour trip, changing not only planes but airports -- and that was business class): I got sick the second day there. Healthcare (in Chiang Mai) was accessible, of excellent quality, and extremely affordable. Cannot drink the tap water, making any food you eat that was washed in it and then not cooked of thoroughly questionable safety. I understand lots of food born illness is unreported. Many Thai homes and apartments do not have water heaters except in the shower. Hot water on tap is unusual. Bangkok is very crowded, loaded with sex tourists, and teeming with scammers and people hustling tourists and expats for money. Marijuana shops were being actively marketed, and whole streets were devoted to bars, strip clubs, and prostitution. [I did not participate.] Bangkok is VERY hot and humid. Chiang Mai is slightly cooler, but during burning season has the worst air quality on earth. Thais drive on the left side of the road. Foreigners can buy condos, even houses, but generally cannot own Thai land unless they marry a Thai or some other exception. Rents vary and there are some outstanding values available in condos and houses if you intend to rent in Pattaya, Hua Hin, Chiang Mai, and other places. But -- drinkable tap water, hot water on tap, and dishwashers are inaccessible or rare. Oh, and laundry facilities (washer/dryer combo or discrete units) are frequently outside in homes and on many condo balconies (think mosquitos). Thai currency is the Baht, which was around 34 / $1 when I was there. Now it's closer to 36. Either way you deal with currency exchange. Thai is inscrutable to read, impossible to understand when spoken, and very difficult to learn. Even Thai people who speak English can be difficult to understand due to their accent and enunciation (especially for those with impaired hearing). I found the Thai government prone to corruption as I witnessed their election process unfold, and they casually raised the price of the Premiere Visa (by about double IIRC). This video also did not mention you have to renew it every 5 years, and other visa options require jumping through hoops to retain. Also not mentioned were the laws against saying anything negative about the king, touching Thai currency (which bears his image) with your foot, spitting in public, and a host of others, all of which can land you in jail. To the Thai people, expats may obtain residency and learn Thai, but they will always be "farang," Thai for foreigner. Thai people appear friendly on the surface, but in my opinion very often it's only transactional -- they don't love foreigners, they love their money. I then visited Panama (8 hour direct flight in economy class): My journey was part of a relocation tour (which was excellent, by the way). I enjoyed a wide variety of food, all excellent, and never became sick. Though I was not sick, our tour visited a major hospital in Panama City that was affiliated with Johns Hopkins Medical Center in the US. Representative prices were extremely affordable for services such as private hospital rooms, medical tests, prescriptions, etc. Tap water was safe to drink in every area we visited. Water heaters are common, as is hot water on tap. Panama City is large, but mot nearly as large or crowded as Bangkok. I understand prostitution is legal in Panama but is very discreet compared with Thailand. I saw no marijuana shops. I believe recreational use of weed is illegal but medical use has been legalized. Panama City is hot and humid (both are tropical / subtropical climates), but not as hot as Bangkok. Boquete is 60s - 70s year round with no burning season. Panamanians drive on the right side of the road. :^ ) Foreigners can buy real estate in Panama, including land. [Though I do not intend to do so.] Rents vary but I've found very comfortable condos much more affordable than where I now live. Drinkable tap water and hot water on tap area readily available, and dishwashers are much more common than I found in Thailand. And laundry facilities (washer/dryer combo or discrete units) are commonly inside the home. The currency is the Balboa, but it is pegged to the US dollar so they don't print a paper currency. They use US bills and only mint Panamanian coins. No currency exchange needed. Spanish is much easier to decipher on signs and labels, easier to understand when spoken, and far easier to learn. I understand corruption is a problem in Panama, but did not encounter it during my visit. The government appeared to be more responsive to the will of the Panamanian people during public protests and the election cycle than Thailand. I found the Panamanian people to be welcoming, kind, and not as visibly disappointed (even disgusted) if a conversation did not result in an exchange of money. Also not mentioned were the benefits of a Pensionado Visa, which can be had for far less than $10,000: One time Duty tax exemption for household goods up to a total of $10,000. Duty exemption for importing a new car every two years. 50% off entertainment anywhere in the country (movies, concerts, sports) 30% off bus, boat, and train fares 25% off airline tickets 50% off hotel stays from Monday through Thursday 30% off hotel stays from Friday through Sunday 25% off at restaurants 15% off at fast-food restaurants 15% off hospital bills (if no insurance applies) 10% off prescription medicines 20% off medical consultations 15% off dental and eye exams 20% off professional and technical services 50% reduction in closing costs for home loans 25% discounts on utility bills 15% off loans made in your name 1% less on home mortgages for homes used for personal residence

[@kenRBoyle]

Spot on video. I went to Panama 3 times and decided against retiring there for the reasons you mentioned in video. I've been to Thailand 2 and can't wait to move there. The food is amazing, the people are friendly and it is very safe there. I love the beaches with all the restaurants, bars and street food you would every want. The language was a little bit of an issue, but with google translate it is not a problem to interact with locals. Thanks again for the great video.

[@OffshoreCitizen]

Thanks for sharing!

[@raymondsmith4401]

Greetings from Thailand. I don’t know about Panama, but almost everything here in Thailand has the vat already built in, so we are not dealing with sales tax being added on to our purchases. I love it here.

[@AndreaGG-i8t]

Almost everything but not in restaurants, where it has become customary to add 10% service charge and 7% VAT. I hate it.

[@MrZipper42]

Burning season and air pollution in Thailand does suck. But if you are in Southern Part of Thailand near the sea, it's not a thing.

[@CyndieGawain]

Burning season is only a big problem in the north of thailand I visited both countries and seriously considered both. I am now living in Thailand. I love it. Biggest disadvantage is time zone if you are doing business in us I am a foodie and like the food better here There are so many different areas to choose from and the lifestyles and vibe is different. Travel around and find your vibe Language has not been an issue Cost of living is definitely cheaper here than panama I love the people. I like that overall it is a quieter culture than latin American cultures. Disadvantage is that government rules change a lot and are usually confusing and not well thought out. Marijuana rules for example. Now 60 day visa confusion I am here on a retirement visa. Not all immigration offices work the same so it can be confusing. I just had my Visa agent do my 90 day reporting and I did not have to show my bank account. A good friend of mine just did his 90 day reporting and he did have to show his bank account. we came into the country around the same time You will always be a foreigner here and always treated differently no matter how long you live here even if you're married to a thai and have children If you are involved in an auto accident or motorcycle accident, it will always 100% be your fault. Paying off the police is quite normal here from what I hear. The heat and humidity are really intense. I can handle it because I came from Texas where it's very hot however, if heat and humidity really bother you, I would look at a different location. I love that I can travel and visit so many different places from here. On my list are Vietnam Bali Maldives, India, Nepal, Japan, Australia.

[@CyndieGawain]

Shopping for clothing can be an issue because the Thai people are so so much smaller. However, you don't need much here. We have a Amazon like company called Lazada which is very helpful for finding things you need. There is Tesco, Lotus, which is like Walmart Wine has high import taxes so it is a little pricey I don't know much about the international schools, but I do know that Bangkok has some good ones and I believe Phuket does too I recently talked to a friend who was trying to hire people in Latin America and did not have much luck. He ended up hiring Filipinos. And is very happy with them. when he came to Thailand to visit he was blown away by comparing the overall energy of the two areas of the world. He said it is amazing how happy everyone is here. He said now I know why you said you would never leave.

[@suk_Qqa89]

Burning seasons only 2-3 month of the year,during these can go out to another place had a lot of visit in another part of Thailand.

[@realpropertymangement7640]

I've been doing the comparative analysis, as well. I spent a month in Thailand last fall (2023) and I'm planning to visit Panama in very early 2025. The tax considerations are not high on my considerations, as I only plan to stay in either for a max of six months per year. I like that Panama is so much closer to the U.S., but getting to and from Thailand isn't that big a deal (I worked internationally, so long distance travel is second nature to me). Though I want to give Panama a fair chance, my intution is telling me Thailand is the better fit.

[@joebloe4374]

Thailand Not even close

[@joeshmooo5327]

Thanks for the super informative video.

[@ronnyb9416]

We lived in Panama 5 years and had residency. At the 5 year point we could not take the stupid any longer. Good place to visit for a few weeks, but do not live there to maintain your sanity.

[@BO-mb8rr]

Can elaborate on all the negatives please.

[@SimplerTrades]

Having been in both places ...Thailand is more interesting ..... simple.

[@OffshoreCitizen]

What do you think makes Thailand more interesting?

[@SimplerTrades]

@@OffshoreCitizen far more cosmopolitian, ancient history, excellent mix of culinary experiences .... and warmer more honest humble people. Many compromises ...but its Land of Smiles for a reason.

[@scottfree993]

​@@SimplerTradesand the vertical smile

[@imperialkhmer6146]

Even though the winner is Thailand. Asia as a whole is alot better than all of Latin America.

[@getdosed]

Great topic. Livability is the secret sauce that makes or breaks international relocation.

[@AndreaGG-i8t]

I live in Thailand and have no experience of Panama. In my opinion, obtaining a retirement VISA in Thailand is extremely simple and inexpensive, provided the applicant is at least 50 years old. Younger than that there are some options (the latest being the DTV, a.k.a. known as Thailand Digital Nomad Visa). On the other end, you did not mention some specific issues foreigners face in Thailand, which I understand are less of an issue in Panama: 1. REAL ESTATE: it is illegal for foreigners to own land. It is legal to own a condo, but only if the unit belongs to the "foreign quota". Prices charged to locals and foreigners not always coincide. Scams and imaginative solutions, bordering on illegality, abound. 2. SETTING UP A COMPANY: if the applicant is not a multi-national company, possible only with Thai nationals owning a controlling stake. Again, scams and imaginative solutions, bordering on illegality, abound. 3. ACCESS TO PUBLIC HEALTHCARE: not that the average Joe may want it, but it's denied, despite all foreign residents are now required to pay taxes in the Kingdom. 4. PATH TO ACQUIRE PERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS: application possible only either based on local employment, or on local family ties, or on investment, and only after having held a Non-Immigrant Visa for at least three consecutive years. 5. PATH TO ACQUIRE THAI NATIONALITY: 10 years after acquiring Permanent Resident Status. 6. DOUBLE PRICE SYSETM: prices charged to foreign nationals in National Parks, main attractions, but at times also in restaurants, are significantly higher than for Thai nationals. 7. IMPORT OF OWN USED HOUSEHOLD BELONGINGS: hampered by hefty and apparently arbitrary import taxes, motorcycles excluded because they cannot be imported under any circumstance. 8. INCOME AND CAPITAL GAINS TAX: too early to draw any conclusion but, as of September 2024, Thailand seems determined to tax all income earned by residents anywhere in the world. It is foreseeable that scams and imaginative solutions, bordering on illegality, will abound. 9. OVERCROWDING: at present Thailand suffers of an excessive influx of tourists, specially form China, India and Russia. Travelling to islands or to touristic attractions is often an unpleasant experience due to the overwhelming presence of tourists. Thailand is measuring its success as a touristic destination purely on the number of visitors and not on their quality.

[@parkerhoeppner451]

Great video! I would love more case studies of how someone could get the Thai Elite and still not be liable for Thai taxes.

[@Rogue_Money]

I have the Thai Elite visa and am not subject to taxation. There are 2 ways: 1) remit savings not income and 2) live in Thailand for 179 days/year

[@newtonarock1802]

I have the Elite and have not paid one cent in Thai tax. To become a tax resident, you must reside in Thailand for 180 days that year. If your country has a Tax Treaty with Thailand (most do), you will not be double taxed on anything already taxed in your country.

[@scottfree993]

And once again, you can bring money into Thailand that isn't income, plenty of scope there.

[@beuman0]

Most people I know in Panama are expats who have been here for more than 8 years, I would say my experience is quite different. I have seen a lot of people coming in and out, mostly because : - They were working on a temporary mission on the Canal - Same but on the train that's being extended to a national level - People who have properties in more than 10 countries and travelling all the damn time, they are nomads at that point - Some don"t like it, it's more for entrepeneurs or freelancers I think, especially if you can do high quality work. If you want to work for someone, you will earn more in US or Canada

[@Johndoe-qn9jr]

Hi can you do a ideo about Bermuda is there a passport by investment taxes ? and so on Thank You

[@onalonan]

Thailand vs Pamama?? Even vs the USA Thailand will always win by far if you have ever been there. And if you talk about Bangkok it's really hard to find the country in Europe or in the states to compare. And I didn't even talking about how modern of the infrastructure, transportation or foods that won by very far.

[@Ozjockey111]

I think you're referring to the burning season in Chaing Mai but you said Thailand, which is like referencing Boston snow season as the WHOLE USA... 😮 yes those northern provinces do have that issue but most people prefer the beaches around Pattaya Huahin or Phuket (for those with cash to burn 😅) 800 miles south of all that.. Pattaya is actually the country's 2nd largest city now and will soon have its own high speed train - 1 hour to bkk and it's own international airport that can support 25 million visitors / year 😮😮😮

[@sagmilling]

I spent several months bouncing around the world as a digital nomad, where I was in Panama twice. I wanted to like Panama, but I just couldn't enjoy it. The weather was oppressively hot and the vibe was uncomfortable. I like that the USD was the currency and the airport has great connections both to Panama City & the world, but that was about all that Panama had going for it. I chose Uruguay instead. Latin culture with a time zone that is a good fit for both North America and Western Europe. The country is a lot better organized, safer, and cleaner than a lot of the neighbours. The weather is much better than Canada (not that much of bar to pass, I know) or Panama. The difficulty is you won't survive here without speaking Spanish; hardly any tourism services available in English here. Much freer than North American countries - if you want to buy a Chinese electric car, you may. If you want to buy a french diesel car, you may. Nobody is interfering in your options.

[@dwayneenpanama6966]

yes, the vibe definitely uncomfortable, they resent us

[@Pedasi66]

I guess no white vive in Panama huh?

[@benguenther1162]

I am from Canada. Would a Wealthy Pensioner with an LTR visa be exempted from paying tax on foreign sourced passive income ( pensions, annuities, etc ) in Thailand? Thank you for your kind advice.

[@patrick1992]

If they really don't back up with the plans no. You will have to tax it in Thailand. That's the reason why they change the laws😂 But you could just spend under 183 days in Thailand and then the rest somwhere else. The new DTV Visa is pretty cheap compared to the Thai elite visa.

[@newtonarock1802]

@@patrick1992 DTV is 180 days per year max with only one extension in those 5 years. Not anything like the Elite. Thats why its so cheap.

[@nomadic-mind]

I've been to both, Thailand is much more fun and has way more to offer in pretty much every category. Panama's only strength is the tax system.

[@billyhill434]

Thailand's new DTV visa has Elite visa holders complaining that they've overpayed for the same thing. Something worth looking into.

[@portlandGTR]

Meh, the amount of times Thailand will introduce or take away or change the fees and stipulations on any given visa is par for the course. They just introduced 60 day exemption last week where if you were there the week before you only got 30 days and will pay 1,900THB to get that extra 30 days if you want them. Thai expats will find a way to complain if you give them $100. Most amount of miserable single dudes I’ve ever seen in my life. Lot of good people but sheesh there’s a lot of miserable expats. Philippines is easily 2nd or a toss up for Thailand with regard to this

[@qartheros]

Yeah this video seems outdated without mentioning DTV as the primary option.

[@realpropertymangement7640]

@@qartheros the Thai DTV has yet to be rolled out. Hopefully, soon! But until it's posted in the Royal Gazette, it isn't in effect.

[@newtonarock1802]

Thailand, Thailand, Thailand. What was the other choice again ??

[@palirvin1871]

10 years ago after deciding Colombia was not my cup of tea I spent three three months in Panama & Costa Rica. I spoke some Spanish having travelled many times in LA but I was no fluent. I decided to try Asia and I've been in Asia and Oceana for 10 years. For me Asia is a much better choice, I am retiring now in Thailand but I will probably explore Malaysia & Indonesia because I am interested in those countries. I don't miss Latin America even though I travelled there over 25 years many times. Backwardness, corruption and mediocre food of LA I sure don't miss.

[@WallStreetIceCream]

Philippines or UAE?

[@justingriffin2546]

malaysia....

[@RomanVarl]

10x times the cost of living difference. Not comparable

[@user-Thailand-lnitialD]

ทำไมโลกนี้มันวุ่นวายกันจัง ที่แน่ๆผมอยู่บ้านผมดีที่สุด ของกินของใช้ก็เยอะไม่มีวันอดตายเพราะมีอาหารธรรมชาติที่สมบูรณ์ผลไม้ก็มีให้กินทั้งปี เพราะว่าคนไทยหาอาหารเก่ง ตราบใดที่มีทะเลแม่น้ำภูเขาป่าไม้ที่สมบูรณ์ ถึงไม่มีเงินสักบาทคนไทยก็ไม่อดตายเพราะมีธรรมชาติให้หาเลี้ยงชีพได้😊

[@skranz7790]

The original Panama Friendly Nations Visa still exists for Italian passport holders due to Italy being grandfathered in. For those with a path to Italian Citizenship through descent, Panama is about the best plan B visa option out there in terms of value and bang for the buck. I went to Thailand for a few weeks at the end of last year and came away feeling like it was way more expensive than the hype led me to believe, especially for the train system in Bangkok. I'm curious why you wouldn't have chosen Malaysia or the Philippines instead of Thailand for this comparison. Both have better overall tax treatment for foreigners than Thailand. And in the case of the Philippines, they have one of the best visa programs in the world, especially if you are former military from a list of friendly nations. Malaysia has the added benefit of allowing foreigners to purchase land, unlike almost all of SE Asia.

[@Wolf2024-m3f]

I don't know whether I can go to Panama since I have travel ban to the US, and the authorities of Panama don't answer me whether they use the travel data of the US. Other countries are much more friendly and replied to my question.

[@jager6863]

Panama allows residents to own and carry firearms for defense with a permit. Thailand does not.

[@M-zg2sg]

Thailand is fairly safe so you probably wouldn't need a firearm.

[@Bcbweb]

What's the difference between remitting income vs remitting money?

[@ReefRunner1]

I think what they meant was that if you already have the money (sitting in another account) and you move the money to your Thai account, then that is merely remitting money, not bringing in fresh income. Remitting income sounds to me like making fresh income that gets directly put into your Thai account. Sometimes to get exact answers to these specific questions for your specific situation, you will need to read a lot of government legislation and guidance documents, or hire a local lawyer or accountant. Neither of which is fun... but then again... you generally need to do that in your home country too.

[@mariadavis3797]

Ocean at Panama City is fully contaminated.

[@doctorstrange69]

Panama is also on path to join Mercosur

[@mariadavis3797]

Not really “on path” as yet.

[@arnoldjohnson3317]

You failed to mention the frequent riots in Panama that effectively shuts it down making it difficult to survive.

[@MariaMelo-r1h]

Where are you now?

[@drdread9896]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@p.c.h.6721]

Panama is boring as hell. Now try to compare Panama with Cyprus, please.

[@torontovoice1]

Yeah that would be interesting

[@torontovoice1]

Another great video as usual. I think the point that you make is not where people go, but where they stay. So you know I've been studying a number of countries and I look at everything on paper like everybody else. The cost of living, taxes of course, corruption perception index I look at the wef doing business guide, the prosperity index, and probably a bunch of others. I think it's true that you have to look at the livability of a country. It also depends on your age. The older you are, the more important healthcare becomes. Also the language barrier can be a problem. I think Spanish would probably be easier for me to learn because I already speak French, but I think trying to learn Thai would start probably be starting from scratch. I know there's a lot of scams running on tourists and Thailand and there's probably a fair amount of issues in Panama as well. Whenever you have poverty, crime is usually not far behind.

[@naren2k6]

There is no comparison with Thailand and any South American City, if you want to say in North America your better off being in Mexico at some of the great resort towns.

[@John-du1oc]

What place is better than Thailand is my question?

[@RomanVarl]

11:20 Language is the problem in Thailand - Thai is maybe 2x more difficult than Spanish, also uses it's own alphabet. Having said that, in touristy places you'll be fine with 0 Thai knowledge

[@vioreliachim5646]

Thailand you are a Farang, Panama you are a Gringo.

[@dinges3518]

Thailand will tax people on their worldwide income within a few years. This is a problem.

[@OffshoreCitizen]

We've made multiple videos on this topic. Feel free to check out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaezZKOdZtGUZ5I kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWKQpImFqK9_jNk

[@newtonarock1802]

Seems you have been misinformed. Most countries have a tax treaty with Thailand to eliminate double-taxation. You will be taxed on Thai income tho.

[@PlayHardPlayHarder-pl3nh]

One of the biggest travel mistakes I ever made was visiting Panama.

[@Wolf2024-m3f]

Details?

[@liwang8851]

I would prefer somewhere far away from Russia, China or the middle east to retire. South East Asia is good when the world has its peace

[@OffshoreCitizen]

What would be the ideal place in your opinion?

[@liwang8851]

@@OffshoreCitizen probably Portugal. Far away from those areas. Living costs are cheap among developed countries. Great weather. Decent safety and healthcare.

[@sergiomildner7903]

BRAZIL

[@andrewwalker1408]

x

[@mariadavis3797]

Panama’s culture is more African than Latin and so is the ethnicity.