Tuning the Megasquirt (Pt. 4) - Idle Tips and Tricks!

[@joelhernandez393]

Should have more likes. Revisit this today and made me remember a couple things I can do to improve idle

[@stevenvanorder449]

Couple things to note, Your Idle AFR is still very rich.. The EGO correction is pulling 10-15% fuel at idle in this video the entire time. reduce the idle VE values and check at what temperature you have the car switching over to the idle VE table. The car is also not running on IGN table 1 at idle, it uses the base timing set in the idle advance tables and the idle correction advance adder. IMHO these are the most important places your time needs to be spent. The car should idle easily at stoic [14.7] when full warm.

[@OGPedXing]

True points. I did not have PID tuned on (was on simple per the base tune) and on my car this leads to a lot of occilation of afr around stoichiometric. Since that is a separate topic I opted to avoid confusing the matter by just keeping it a bit rich for this one. More details on PID coming soon and I will get more into your points on EGO. Thanks for the feedback!

[@rogersailors154]

I enjoyed your videos. You did an excellent job. You cut through much of the information overload for new users, and provided useful context for understanding what is actually going on. Thank you.

[@OGPedXing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@SuperDeeBro]

Dude! Where were these 2 years ago when I started with my first MS? I like your techniques, easy enough!

[@hilgo_velomobile]

Can't wait for Part 5 (autotune). Thanks for your work on this. Wish it was around when I installed mspnp2 back in 2012.

[@Slybeanx]

Thank you so much for making this video. Really helped me idle my E30.

[@GaryLamb2020]

Hi, I just bought my car Sunday and it came with megasquirt 2. I've been toying around with it, but i just don't want to hurt my car. Are there any mega squirt tunes that i can pay to get my car running right?

[@OGPedXing]

Not a specific tune that you can download but there are pro tuners around that work on megasquirt. You can look for performance oriented shops in your area and ask around. There are some people who will do remote tuning if you have a laptop and wifi with tuner studio installed. You can search on some of the megasquirt forums around. But honestly, especially if the car is naturally aspirated, its hard to hurt it. Start with the idle level to get your fuel table working. Then you can get a pretty well sorted car with the auto tune feature in tuner studio.

[@GaryLamb2020]

@@OGPedXing and with that final comment im gonna go nuts! Err.. In a good way. Thanks

[@brandtkrulla3999]

My first few starts with my 97 and MS3PNP have AC stuck on….one start up behaved normally. Any ideas?

[@mlfishing842]

Hey Ped, to figure out what values I need in my CLIV Table do I just use the idle air valve test mode on tunerstudio and take note of each PWM% Value at each RPM say for example 800RPM = 30.2. 900RPM = 32.1 and so forth until I reach 1300RPM? (what my table is scaled to) Also I am using CLT so do I have to do this at various temps or can I just get these values when the car is warm at operating temp cause getting the values at each temp sounds very time consuming haha. Hope this makes sense! Thanks again

[@OGPedXing]

Yes this should work. Do it when the car is fully warmed up. If you're using timing advance to help reach your target rpm, the idle valve numbers you get from the test screen will be a little off. But usually they are off in a consistent way, like low by 2-3% and you can adjust from there.

[@mlfishing842]

@@OGPedXing perfect thanks alot

[@gregoryl8374]

Any information on how to get the wideband guage and the megasquirt to see the same AFR values ?, this is a huge problem if you are trying to use auto tune on the fuel table. Thanks.

[@OGPedXing]

Usually this can be fixed by grounding the wideband at the same point as the megasquirt. Ideally the wideband has two grounds, one for the sensor and one for the heater. If this is the case, you can ground to the same sensor ground the megasquirt is using.

[@gregoryl8374]

@@OGPedXing I tried grounding 9 ways to Sunday and still need an offset in calibration.

[@OGPedXing]

With luck the offset you need will be linear and you can create a custom calibration setup in tuner studio under the afr calibration screen. If your wb has a test mode to put it at a particular afr you can measure the voltage and compare to the afr that the ms is seeing. You can also log it and at a particular time note the gauge afr vs ms afr to get the difference. If you can get a couple of points, you can do it similar to this method:. www.14point7.com/blogs/news/16539352-maximizing-accuracy-between-spartan-2-and-megasquirt

[@mofidgorgis2059]

When i first start the car the idle is going higher and higher , i don not want to brake my new rebuild motor :( Is it the fuel or the spark issues? The idle valv is working. Just on/off 12V BTW! Very educational video! 👍

[@OGPedXing]

If your idle valve is just open closed rather than pulse width modulation, then you may need to do a manual adjustment with the idle screw. Almost always, idle rpm is going to be related to air and not fuel or spark.

[@mofidgorgis2059]

@@OGPedXing yes, that is true. My idle valve had quite a big hole even when it was off

[@johnberumen1666]

Hey man gotta question , so me and my buddy who has tuned some MS were trying to tune mine , however , I can only start the car once , it’ll idle poorly/decent, then shit off bc it goes way way lean , even tho the VE table is fairly rich , if I try starting it after that one first start the afr gauge will read lean like 20s right when it’s about to start then die , is this and exhaust leak ? Or Wideband issue itself ?

[@OGPedXing]

First thought was exhaust leak but it'd have to be pretty major. Wb issue can also cause that. Does it smell rich/lots of gas fumes? If not it still may not be enough.

[@johnberumen1666]

OGPedXing I can smell the fuel , we tried upping the VE a lot and my buddy said it should be dying with that much fuel , pit the stock ecu in with the Wideband and it first idled at 15, gradually goes to 21 , then Jumps back to 15 on stock ecu/afm

[@johnberumen1666]

Shouldn’t **

[@OGPedXing]

@@johnberumen1666 ok I'd verify timing next. Check with a timing light and put the MS at used fixed and 10 degrees before top dead center. There's a screen in tuner studio to change the timing offset so that you get 10 degrees on the light while it runs.

[@AwesomeFinish]

I noticed your AF doesn't reset when you fire the car up. How do you have your wideband wires to power? Thanks.

[@AwesomeFinish]

Also, how do you keep your AF from jumping around so much? Is there a smoothing setting somewhere?

[@OGPedXing]

I use an wideband gauge from speedhut that does a sweep on power on...just like all o2 sensors its not very accurate for the first 30 seconds, but this sort of hides it. On power off it holds it's last value also. While running, the important thing for getting af stable is the base value in the ve table. Tune that for max vacuum. If needed turn off closed loop to get this dialed in. This will make everything else like closed loop, ego control, idle valve, etc work less to maintain rpm and afr targets. So it ends up being very stable.

[@ians.6795]

I've got the no A/C idle and car running great (MS3Pro) but with the A/C on when letting off RPMs drop significantly below A/C idle up then levels out at intended RPM. IAC PWM % target at that load area is set within 1% of where RPMs level out. Any ideas?

[@urieljurado1079]

EXCELLENT YOUR VIDEO AND CAPTIONS, GOOD FOR ME, I NEED THE SETTINGS OR THE SETUP FOR A MAZDA MX-6, V6 MY FRIEND... I REPLACED THE OLD USA ENGINE WITH A JDM ENGINE AND IT HAS SOME FEATURES VERY POWERFUL THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.... AND NOW I HAVE THE ECU MEGA SQUIRT AND THE TUNERSTUDIO MS SOFTWARE IN A LAPTOP READY TO USE BUT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT .... I AM ON CERO SPEED AND I NEED TO START WITH A TUTORIAL LIKE YOURS HERE BUT IF I DONT HAVE THE BASIC SETUP OR THE BASIC SETTINGS FOR MY CAR I FIND ISSUES .... THANKS IF YOU CAN ANYTHING AND THANKS IF YOU CAN NOT... THIS ISSUE IS NOT EASY TO SOLVE.... THE GUY THAT TUNED MY CAR NOWADAYS DOES NOT WANT TO TEACH ANYTHING BECAUSE HE IS VERY BUSY ....

[@maxp8892]

What is the brand of coolant gauge that you installed in your instrument cluster? Thanks. I would like to change mine out.

[@OGPedXing]

Actually all the instrument cluster gauges themselves are stock but the gauge graphics are made by revlimiter.net. I have the gauge set called "Rossa". He has a lot of designs and they are all amazing looking.

[@maxp8892]

@@OGPedXing Ok I will check them out. I love your tuning series. i'm still chasing some of my tuning just because my engine is very not stock. I was running a Hydra nemesis and it crapped out and now learning the MS. My idle I can get it to work cold till up to temp then the fans kick on and it darn near kills the car. I think the skunk2 throttle body idle screw is almost closed (1/4 turn) So my Idle is sketchy. What area of the country are you in? I'm in Dallas area. I would really like to see more in the refinement of tuning... you seem to have a great knowledge.. very helpful

[@OGPedXing]

@@maxp8892 I'm in the Houston area. Now that the turbo is in, I'll have some more tuning videos coming. Talking about boost and also getting into e85.

[@maxp8892]

@@OGPedXing Awesome. My 02 has a McCully 1.8 bored and sleeved to a 2.0 and lots of other stuff.It is a sleeper but as I said I'm learning to tune a MS and getting my head around MS has been a bit of a struggle... your the first to break it down in a clear and understandable method. I sent you a question on Redit about the idle button on the autotune page and what and how that button is used. If your ever in the dallas area let me know and I'll buy you lunch or dinner.

[@OGPedXing]

@@maxp8892 Nice build! I'll check out redit and see if I can help.

[@DJimeku]

just started my megasquirted miata yesterday for the first time! My diyautotune base map shows an open loop (warmup) idle-control. Can you please explain to me, if I should stay open loop for this? And when should I go to closed loop idle control?

[@OGPedXing]

I go closed loop right away. The key is let it get fully warmed up and then tune your fuel ve table so the afr is good at idle. This gives you a good base line for getting your closed loop settings dialed in. So get fueling good first, do your idle valve setup second (get your valve duty cycle range set and your idle initial values table worked out). You can leave the idle control as "basic" to start, it will be fine to start with.

[@DJimeku]

@@OGPedXing ok, thanks! When I'm attempting to get my valve duty cycle range set, do I do that step when it's fully warmed up? Or do I do that during warm up? Also not sure which algorithm to set my AFR/EGO control to... simple, pid, or no correction thanks!

[@OGPedXing]

Yeah do the duty cycle once it's warm and the idle is stable. The normal range is around 30 for closed and 70 for open but it could be plus or minus some in either direction.

[@DJimeku]

@@OGPedXing thank you so much for your response. Your videos are invaluable and a good tool for novices (like me) when it comes to standalone tuning... I really appreciate the videos and guidance. Take care - fellow Houstonian -ha

[@g60gerry]

Ms3... i guess isnt the easiest to tune, have you not tune the VE table and optimised the ignition? before targeting the adiditonal enrichments...

[@OGPedXing]

Typically the base map is decent but usually rich. I like to get a strong start set up and then get the idle ve table tuned back a bit to bring the afr in line. But you can do it the other way too, get it warmed up and steady, tune idle ve, then let it cool down and retune enrichments for a strong start and warm up.

[@mcqcjc8409]

Can u calibrate idle valve with higher end point so u can trick computer and have more scale over same valve stroke?

[@OGPedXing]

No need, this is megasquirt, it does whatever you want. If you want the IAC to be open 100% just tell it to do that in the duty cycle tables. It's just a solenoids meaning it can only be open or closed. The duty cycle determines what percentage of time it's open.

[@zazzn]

Hi, I've been trying to tune my idle in close loop, but I'm having nothing but trouble. The IAC valve (stepper) uses hugely higher numbers than when I have it static and open loop. My open loop idle is near perfect for start-up and just about everywhere. However, with close loop, I have crazy amounts of hunting even when I reduce the closed-loop idle PID to almost nothing. Air fuels were ok and I even disabled timing adjustments to try o figure out what was going on. I think the stepper is adjusting too much and too quickly. Suggestions on how to control that?

[@OGPedXing]

Ok so definitely a stepper valve and not pwm? I've seen this when the pwm frequency is too high, this can cause the steps to be too wide causing the ECU to have to adjust other things to compensate. But not sure about a stepper. In closed loop are you using a position table for the starting value or "last value" when it enters idle? I find last value causes wide swings.

[@zazzn]

@@OGPedXing For sure a stepper, it's a Toyota supra IAC. Maybe my steps are off? I'm not sure all I know is it starts hunting and goes worse and worse. Could you maybe make a video on TPS dot for acell enrichment as well, I feel when I jab the gas the car wants to stall for a second then picks up.

[@OGPedXing]

OK yeah for stepper i think the idle initial value table is off. One thing is you can take a log in open look and see what it's defaulting to. The log item is stepper idle position. Yep! More tuning videos coming soon!

[@zazzn]

@@OGPedXing could it be that I'm out of the effective range at 750? It hunts like crazy when you low but at 800 rpm it much better

[@OGPedXing]

@@zazzn yes you may want to target higher. For many cars if it's 1000 and under but idling well, I don't worry about it. The Miata for example is 850 for perfect factory spec, but 900 or 1000 is fine.

[@maxp8892]

Where do I find the "Accel MapDot Threshold" to turn it on? Mine is greyed out.

[@OGPedXing]

There is a slider just above the settings on the Accel enrichment screen. If it's at 100% tps then the mapdot will be greyed out. This is typically fine though...tps is more accurate and responsive than changes to the air pressure.

[@usagimoto1423]

Curious to know how did you wire up your AC?

[@OGPedXing]

You can take the AC in line which is in the stock harness and tells the AC is running and put it to a spare input line on the megasquirt. I used the datalog input which is pin 30 on the expander board. I have a 94 so my AC in the harness is 1Q in my oem connector. Then you go into tuner studio and set the AC idle up input to be datalog or whatever pin you used and then the MS will add RPMs correctly to deal with the load. You can also use spare injector output lines to activate the AC compressor and fan.

[@usagimoto1423]

OGPedXing my brother, you’re amazing. God bless and Thank you

[@idriwzrd]

What's up with those horrible and confusing gauges? They're not stock, are they?

[@OGPedXing]

Do you mean the idle dashboard I was using? No it's custom. I set it up like that in the last video (pt 3) to put everything for idle tuning on one screen. It's not meant for driving around. The dashboard config mode in tunerstudio is super flexible. It can be anything you want.

[@idriwzrd]

@@OGPedXing No, the MS dash is fine. I was referring to the car gauges. Surely, the car didn't come with those.

[@OGPedXing]

@@idriwzrd oh man, my revlimiter gauges? Yes they are not stock. And yes they are the awesomeness 😊 they are from revlimiter.net and are the "Rossa". He makes many versions so if you're not feeling that one then there are dozens more. He makes everything by hand, highly recommended, a true craftsman.

[@e34boat88]

my car only runs for few secs and dies. i belive its running on the extra fuel it gets when it cranks. also it backfires when i press gas but timing is correct. im so lost😭

[@OGPedXing]

Running a few seconds is a good start...crank fuel is probably ok, and after start enrichment (ase) is enough but warm up enrichment is too low. For now increase that. You may need to up the fuel ve table in general, but you can get that fixed after warmup is done. Once your fuel ve is stable for idle, then you can decrease the warmup enrichment a bit because the next time you start, it will be rich. Ase and wue require a few cold starts to dial it in.

[@e34boat88]

@@OGPedXing i cranked the warmup enrichemt to the moon and it worket well. i also had to move the location of missing tooth because it was too far away and it messed with timing when it started. thanks for the help!!

[@aaronmendez5461]

Did you ever make an auto tune video?

[@dougmarthaler3066]

Love the videos! One tip, please stop saying “basically” so often, thx!!

[@lollop97]

What afr gauge Is that?

[@OGPedXing]

It's from speedhut.com, they give you options to customize the style, needle, etc. I do an unboxing and review on this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPPoYmMbMRnga8. The afr controller is a Spartan 2 from 14point7.

[@ОлегИвченко-т8щ]

Я был бы безумно рад,если бы такие ролики выходили на более понятном языке,на казахском или русском языках. Потому,что даже перевод текста очень не понятен.