Old OTIS MACHINE ROOM - in detail! (DC-Generator driven) - PART 1

[@julianpiper240]

Hi Matt, once spotting those numerous resistors in the control cabinet, I can instantly tell that this is a popular technique of speed control in dc machines known as the “Ward Leonard” method. This is where an AC prime mover rotates a dc generator’s rotor, which is connected as a separately excited shunt wound machine, OR is wired as a self excited shunt wound machine, both incorporating many contractors and resistors to adjust field strength, which adjusts the generated emf. Since we cannot easily change the speed of the AC machine (the whole reason OTIS used DC machines at this time)we must vary the field of the generator to control the voltage applied to the DC motor. This is a great demonstration for electrical trades students and shows a lot about methods of speed control, rather than attaching a black box VFD to a squirrel cage motor and calling it done for the lesson. Physically connecting the multi way switch in series with many resistors and measuring the voltages using analog voltmeters yields a beautifully clear demo of a very clever yet simple design.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks very much for your message Julian. In Part 3 I'm going to try to describe, that which you already know (from the context of your message above) to a more technical degree than I do!! I need to illustrate it in a far more 'easier to understand' method though, so that anyone can understand it.

[@kevinmurphy-steele5055]

Such evocative noises, the Otis bell sound of course (classic!) And the motor generator whine too. Love the vintage Lexan fixtures too, it's a real treat finding them today.

[@theodorepfeffer7342]

I always love how informative your videos are. It’s nice to get an up close look of the vintage mechanics.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

wicked! Thanks for the comment, this is EXACTLY what I set out to do :)

[@mrclucker1969]

It's quite mesmerising to watch!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

agreed! I love relay systems

[@RODALCO2007]

Selenium rectifiers still in service. Love the old DC gensets and brushed motor armatures. great video.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks very much! Lifts like these are rarely seen in public these days, and maintenance guy was very kind to show me all this.

[@p.m3735]

Great episode look forward to seeing the next part

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@pony053]

Love that generator whine when those motors come in......funny sounds like 50 HZ I know 60HZ when I hear it...lol

[@disneywave1982]

Just can't wait for a detailed look at that 'pie-plate' selector!😁

[@liftchannelnl5294]

Love that 60/70s architecture

[@henrybowden9907]

Um, this lift equipment is not from the 1970s. I know this because I served my apprenticeship with Otis from 1972-1976 and the controllers used newer, slightly smaller 'relays' than those. Also the rotary selectors had been phased out by then and were (almost) all of the cage type. So I believe they date from some time in the late 1960s. Still this video brings back some good memories both of the equipment and of the qualified engineers I worked with. If you like I'll write with some stories - all perfectly true, including the time I was saved from death by nothing other than good fortune. I made a serious mistake by leaving Otis within a year of completing my apprenticeship. I could have had a job for life if I'd stayed.

[@38911bytefree]

NICE !!!!!!. Waiting for the second part

[@mrmattandmrchay]

cool, thanks! Coming Friday

[@williamford7966]

It's nice to see these old generators; I can almost taste the carbon dust again. Work safe everyone.

[@High-Rise]

Love these types of otis lifts where are these? Very rare to find dc generater on a lift especially in 2021

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I don't really want to give out the location here, but most people in the south probably know where! Send me an email and I'll tell you [e-mail]

[@MichalM]

@@mrmattandmrchay Lol!

[@High-Rise]

@@mrmattandmrchay ok thanks!

[@TechNerdNolan]

Awesome video! I love the amount of effort you put into your videos

[@Blixt1000]

These Lifts/Elevators look pretty similar to ones here in the United States. These kind with the DC Generator were popular in the 50s and 60s. And Stainless Steal finish was put on everything and still is a common thing here in the States. One thing that was not common was the cages and the guards around the machines. Back then, safety was really not a concern to people.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

The design I believe IS from the US originally. Yeah, the guards certainly do not help the filming element, but we went Health & Safety mad in the 2000s and this is the result!

[@ujumine]

What was that large spiral wire thing in the middle part of delay circuits board? 9:55

[@TCPUDPATM]

Wow, that’s really neat. Thanks for sharing!

[@explorer914]

Must be hard to find spare parts for this old elevator. Also I WONDER what happened around the numbers in the lift car display.

[@MichalM]

Definitely is. This particular lift was out of service for a long time whilst they were trying to find a part. It has only recently been brought back into service.

[@Sirenenwolfi]

Would be interesting to see a close-up of the type plates of the machinery. Especially, at which voltage the DC motor is running, and how much the current consumption and the power is. I guess the DC operation voltage is lower than the AC mains, maybe around 200 volts?

[@idl3k_elev]

I bet these two old lifts are so lucky enough to remain in their complete original condition! I think it's quite unusual to see these complete original lifts in a busy shopping centre, as in most cases places like this would have their old lifts modernized or completely replaced into brand new ones regardless of brands. Were the three scenic lifts added later?

[@dykodesigns]

I wonder what happened to those floor indicators. They look vandalised.

[@liftchannelnl5294]

Zoals bijna elke lift hier🤣

[@dykodesigns]

@@liftchannelnl5294 Het lijkt wel of er met een luchtbuks op geschoten is..... Zie dat soms wel eens bij verkeersborden in het buitengebied.

[@liftchannelnl5294]

@@dykodesigns xd

[@mrmattandmrchay]

yep, years of abuse! They've been stabbed with something.

[@ZZ9ProductionsOFFICIAL]

can't wait for part 2 and all the detail about that selector among other things! There's one thing about that lift that I'm just not understanding tho - why the internal floor indicator is slightly offset from the centre of that front wall!

[@MichalM]

Good question. A lot of people have questioned this, and the answer may be that it's slap bang in the middle of the lift car! I don't know why the button panel is thin, unlike the other side, but this would be my best guess.

[@Lift.Tracker]

Oh, yeah. That’s really weird. Maybe something to do with the door motor? I’m really not sure though.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

For me it's OCD overload! I guess because it's central to the whole lift car, but it would have been better centralised with the doors!

[@MichalM]

@@mrmattandmrchay Yep! Not sure why they did that, but it definitely gives them character. Can't remember if the left lift is the same, will have a look at my video of it. Edit: It's exactly the same in the other car, just checked.

[@VijayKumar-in7zw]

These ones till 2015 were there on my route in Bombay and few are left 62 GC,torpedo generator, controllers 10UCL or 10 10AUI with BV 6850 selectors 111.1 ratio, 60.1 ratio these are the bulls they will work with out stop one of the best series,France make with fly ball governor.

[@Lift.Tracker]

That brass plaque on the wall (above the green thing) at 5:10 looks just like Express Lifts hand winding instructions which you often see. Could the glass ones be modernised Expresses?

[@MichalM]

Really looking forward to it!

[@Lift.Tracker]

Do you have any idea why the indicator could be off to one side, shown at 2:16? ZZ9 asked. My guess is that it’s something to do with the door motor being in the way, but I’m really not sure.

[@MichalM]

@@Lift.Tracker Take a look at my other comment :)

[@ag6371]

It’s quite rare to find a AC-DC generator driven elevator

[@phillipstephenson1597]

we still have a few of them in town.

[@dieseldragon6756]

Oh man, I only just discovered your channel tonight and was learning a lot of stuff I was missing about electromechanical lift control...And then up pops a video of a very unique installation from suburban London that I immediately remember from my childhood! 😁 I can't believe those same lifts I used as a kid 35 years ago - And which formed the root of my own lift interest - Were still in service right up until the Covid pandemic, and possibly even today! 🏛🛗😳 Is there any information on whether these are still in service today as seen in the video, or was this taken prior to a planned overhaul? 😇 And if by "With permission" you mean in co-operation with the centre where these are, massive props and thanks to them for giving us an insight into and tour of their motor room! ❤🙂

[@ag6371]

There is actually a floor selector and a relay controller preserved at DieselDucy's museum

[@stefanjakob2594]

those floor selectors are kinda spooky, what will happen if the contact array around stucks in a wrong position (don´t saddles or lifts up) due to a failure of the solenoid that moves it, will it crash the disc´s and contacts ??? is there any security mechanism or feedback of the contact array position that prevent such a mess ???

[@FrostyGaming8394]

You can tell there old because of that and dc generator and ac is very very rare

[@mrmattandmrchay]

absolutely!

[@JBF-GST-Tanda]

Pure beauty from these rugged muscular "real-life redstone gadgetry"

[@pomonabill220]

As always, WONDERFUL!!! But the loud high pitched noise (alarm?) was VERY annoying. What was it?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Not sure, some plant equipment warning or perhaps a fire alarm fault on the panel. It was going the whole time.

[@Lift.Tracker]

Great video!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks!

[@davidbelfalas7845]

Changed an LV coil once on a BJ selector and didn't tuck in lead in properly and the pie plate cut it off.

[@FM60260]

Why did these use rotary converters to power them? Wouldn't it have been more efficient to use a mercury arc rectifier?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Different eras. The mercury arc rectifier was around 1910? The AC-DC generators were a product of the 1960s/70s, perhaps before, but the arc rectifiers are turn of the centry!

[@FM60260]

@@mrmattandmrchay In that case it is highly likely Holcombe Brook substation which was built in 1927 for the re-electrification of the long since closed Holcombe Brook Branch Line (1200V side contact 3rd rail), could have originally had mercury-arc rectifiers. I assumed it would've been one of those big rotary converters as I always thought mercury-arc rectifiers only became more widely used after Mr Hewitt died. I am not sure if there are any left in there or not but the building is now just housing a local substation. There was also 1500V OHLE before that from the 1900's but I have no idea if that was supplied from elsewhere or a local power station specifically for the railway.

[@UQRXD]

Some people beat the bejesus out of the floor display numbers. 2:24

[@agems56]

Does the Motor driven generator ever turn off at a certain point?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

It's designed to, as there is an associated timer exactly for that. But site was so busy it never powered down.

[@caroleast9636]

The generator runs continuously while the lift is in use. There is a timer that shuts it down when there are no more calls to answer. That was usually set for about 30 seconds. In busy buildings that meant that they often run for hours at a time. It may look wasteful, but the generator running with no load used very little power. Starting up a stationary generator only took seconds anyway. The person pushing a button to call the lift would hardly notice ✔️

[@gabrielcoyle3067]

When’s Part 2 coming ?

[@liftchannelnl5294]

Friday

[@steve45678]

Seems to be a similar setup to an Express Ward Leonard control system.

[@Lift.Tracker]

I’ve heard of that before, but what exactly is the Express Ward Leonard System?

[@steve45678]

@@Lift.Tracker Its a DC speed control system, its very easy to Google a full technical explanation online.

[@Lift.Tracker]

@@steve45678 Just read about it on Wikipedia. Very interesting stuff, thanks for letting me know. :-)

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I'm going to do the same, as I also need a full understanding if I'm going to describe it "in a way that anyone can understand!"

[@Lighting_Desk]

Another lush video. You should definitely check out the motor room install videos on tower of terror at Disney. The motors used are beasts.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks for the comment. Yes, I've seen that video already - they are massive!

[@DPets]

Wow.

[@pineappleroad]

For whatever reason i cannot stop thinking of the time when i got creeped out in a lift on a ferry on the day in question, i was either heading over to the isle of wight, or heading from the isle of wight to the mainland, i was heading down to deck C in the foot passenger lift (there were 2 lifts, one which served decks B, C, and E, which opened directly onto the car deck on decks C and E (on those ferrys decks C, D, and E are the car decks, note that no lifts serve deck D, deck D only gets used in the summer, as it has to be lowered down to be loaded and unloaded, deck C is accessed via a ramp at the... err, i cannot think of the name, port? the other lift served decks B and C, and opened into the area where the foot passenger access is on deck C, deck B on those ferrys was the main passenger deck, there was also what i am going to refer to as deck A, which was accessible to non disabled passengers, no lifts went up there, deck A was also where the smoking area was if i remember correctly) as we were heading down, i said something to my parents (i would have been at most 11 at the time, if we still lived on the isle of wight, then i would have been at most 8) and i remember a voice that i did not recognise said "that's right" (the voice sounded like it came from the wall of the lift, i was stood next to the wall) that creeped me out

[@Tigrou7777]

2:35 what happened to that poor display ? It looks like he's been in the middle of a battlefield.

[@slendermanRblx]

Still there in 2023 or have they since been modernised or replaced?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

No need for me to go back, so I don't know, never returned.

[@vrryan6]

Good morning from myself its the 26th but I hope your 2021 is going well so far

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Hi Ryan, yeah, very busy but we're all ok. How about you?

[@vrryan6]

@@mrmattandmrchay so far this year I've been playing this game called Pavlov its like csgo but better and with that I've been trying to get a server running for it.

[@jonasberlin5594]

Why not put a voice over explaining the the equipment and what is going on?

[@LaPatateDouce]

Amaury on Facebook :) Very good video as usual! Continue !

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Thanks Amaury (btw, I always get names mixed up, and remembering who's who, so thanks for the reminder :)

[@UQRXD]

Selenium rectifiers give off a wonderful smell when they fry.

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

Its broadmoor siren j remining?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

I'm told that it is - it hasn't been removed due to lack of access into the location - it's a large construction site now. No doubt that too wil be removed very soon.

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

But i wanna se it please get in there i saw a way in there please😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

On gogle maps

[@Lj7do]

What happens if you cut a rope on the top of the lift?

[@dougerrohmer]

Nothing. There is a lot of redundancy in rope strength, and there is also a governor and safety gear. In 1945 a Mitchell bomber crashed into the Empire States building and the elevator ropes cut cut, and nobody died.

[@airattoz]

Why such an ancient technology? Solid state rectifiers were already a thing back then. 3 phase rectified voltage is smooth enough for dc motor.

[@mainebikelif3]

So my comment the Carstairs Junction siren is sounded like a thunderbolt 1003 with a weird weird weird Chopper that had a pulsed solenoid and one solenoid out and that Junction siren sounded weird bro

[@philipcollins3849]

I think it a 10 UCL

[@ilcanaledegliascensori]

Where are these lifts?

[@Lift.Tracker]

Shopping Centre in Epsom

[@stommmmmmm]

part

[@Truckguy1970]

Who beat the s*** out of the floor indicator panel like that?

[@alo1236546]

Real steel and copper, silica not found

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

PLEASE MORE BROADMOOR SIRENS M IS GONE END SIREN I BUT SIREN F UNKDOWN END SIREN G MORE PLEASE PLEASE🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁

[@MichalM]

Matt probably won't be going back there, but I might soon. At the moment only sirens F and G remain.

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

Is it remining now in 2021? I think siren f is gone now all forest taked down there siren f is

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

Is testing enymore?

[@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan]

Why siren M is gone why it was black end blue end white rare collur on a siren?!

[@MichalM]

@@alfonsgamingtornadosirenfan No more testing takes place. Siren M is gone for the same reason as all the others, don't know why it's blue.

[@publicmail2]

The circuits where easy to understand then, very basic.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

absolutely, very simple, but LOOKS very complicated!

[@dougerrohmer]

Try fault finding it one day. A dirty contact or stickiness somewhere can cause chaos and leave you staring at the controller for days.

[@leewilliams6070]

Have you seen a ladder diagram for one of these lifts? Let alone a group of 4?