Old Testament Appearances of Jesus OR Trinitarian Incompetence?

The Scriptural facts tell us that nobody saw a pre-incarnate "God the Son" in the OT, as Trinitarians eisegetically imagine into the text without warrant. Not only do Trinitarians imagine their Trinitarian "God the Son" into the Old Testament text by an act of their own will, the Scriptural facts prove their made-up claim is impossible. Furthermore, the Bible tells us that Moses uniquely spoke with God directly and personally which means he was the only one who did so in the Old Testament. Even further, the Bible specifically tells us it was God THE FATHER who spoke to Moses. And not only so, the Bible specifically tells us it was God THE FATHER who spoke to all Israel. But these Scriptural facts seem to completely escape the eyes of Trinitarians who are blinded by their own personal desires.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

That no one has ever seen God our Father is not a license to imagine Jesus into the Old Testament text wherever you feel like it. The Bible tells us that God did not speak to Israel in a son until "these last days" (Heb 1:1-2) but Trinitarians deny the Scripture and disregard this fact to make their false claims. The Bible tells us that God spoke to Israel out of the fire on the mountain in the giving of the Law. It also tells us that God spoke personally with Moses as a man speaks with a friend and that Moses was UNIQUE in this respect. We are also informed that Moses was speaking with the Father. Because we are told that Moses was unique to personally speak with God, this tells us that God communicated with other people by another means. We do find that He routinely spoke with men through his messengers (angels). Imagining a pre-incarnate Jesus ("God the Son") into Old Testament passages to speak with men is a completely dishonest and shameful practice especially in light of the fact that we are told that only Moses spoke with God in such a manner. Even further, when confronted with 2 Corinthians 3:17, Trinitarians show their true colors when they insist the Lord of that verse is not Jesus but the Lord who spoke with Moses at Exodus 33-34.

[@WujekObamy]

@C S the Bible will tell you this as well: Gen 48:15-16: "And he blessed Joseph, and said, THE GOD before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, THE GOD who hath fed me all my life long unto this day, THE ANGEL who hath redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."

[@WujekObamy]

@C S one verse and question for you: Mat 28:19: "Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit," We can agree I presume that the name of the Father is JHWH... What is the name of the Son and the name of the Spirit knowing from this verse that they have the same name as the name is only one here in this verse???

[@WujekObamy]

@C S I know nothing about English translations before KJV but I can tell that I am Polish and in every Polish translation you can find today there is still IT there... Modern Catholic or Protestant translations into Polish still have IT there 😉

[@WujekObamy]

@C S If you want to stand against Trinity I strongly suggest you to get familiar with the doctrine of Trinity as your understanding like 3 persons all together make one God is ridiculous. Your understanding and criticism are based on false assumptions as you don't know what we Christians believe in

[@WujekObamy]

@Christian Man you and me we know that this conversation like tousends of this type leads nowhere. For sure we have different Christs. What about the Gospel? Can you tell me your Gospel?

[@34jayy]

The funniest thing about the scriptures is how uncomplicated things are when you flush all the false doctrine down the drain and allow the truth to speak for itself. Thank you brother Kel for your no nonsense way of teaching. Your video on colossians-no genesis creation here, is what began to flush toilet full of that trinity mess I was taught all my life. It amazes me how much of the bible every trinity preacher skips due to their loyalty to a false doctrine. Then when you question things you get told how we can't fit the infinite God into our finite minds.....we will learn everything in the sweet by and by. So foolish.

[@waynegoff3776]

That’s a very good teaching Brother Kel. You know not the blessing I received from your truth of the scripture you put forth. I have been praying to Yahuah to show me the answer to this very subject. Answered prayer thanks and may Yahuah Elohim bless you with all your heart desires.

[@keithfuson7694]

Wayne Goff may Yehovah Elohim bless all of Gods people.

[@steelvegas]

Brother, thank you for this God inspired teaching. I have been a biblical unitarian for over 10 years and it's rare to come across another disciple of Jesus that teaches the truth about there being just ONE Gid and not three in one. So thank you.

[@reformationcatapults9283]

Excellent work. I was just wondering if you've done a video on Daniel 3 and the fourth man in the furnace? I thought I'd seen one in the past but can't find it now.

[@spinetingles2641]

Love your videos, keep 'em coming!

[@SmalltimR]

Amen!

[@jessicalindsay1210]

Excellent teaching brother!!!! Thank you so much! God bless you!!!!

[@LONGMAN772]

Why do you call me good? There is none good but GOD. I AM the good shepherd my sheep hear my voice they come to me and I shall give them eternal life - LORD Jesus.

[@noahbody2514]

Keep hammering it brother Kel! Enjoy your teachings! Father's grace and mercy be with you always 🙏🙏♥️

[@ezassegai4793]

sad thing is that trinitarians are debating muslims. its blind fighting the blind. Nothing good will ever come from it. On a good day they can produce a new trinitarian, oh great.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

One does get the impression that the ancient pagans often had "my god is better than your god" battles. Nothing has changed.

[@chrisharveyjazz]

God BLESS YOU BROTHER KEL THE WORDS OF TRUTH FROM THE LIVING GOD IS IN YOU

[@humsterstories9736]

As to incarnation, Paul in Acts plainly demonstrates the pagan idea of a deity descending to humans in a human form is in conflict with the then Jewish (or at least Pharisaic) concept of God.

[@tahquameken]

Trinitarian world seems like a very complicated world.

[@johndavid3474]

Preach! Brother KEL..

[@anissueofursincerity]

Your exposition of the book of Hebrews is fantastic. Moses and Israel worshiped God the Father. Hebrews shows that Jesus sacrifice is presented to the Father. That is a uni-person God. Yet trinis won't go beyond "thy throne o God". They won't read the whole book.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

"Yet trinis won't go beyond "thy throne o God". They won't read the whole book." Trins only see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. It's a sickness to do this sort of thing. That is why Paul talked about people who gather around teachers who tickle their itching ears - they seek teachers who will tell them what they want to hear. They like to pretend what they want to hear is the truth so that it satisfies their fleshly desires. Pharisees had the same problem and Jesus explains why they could not hear him in John 8 - they wanted to do the desires of their father.

[@dimitris_zaha]

Yeah blah blah Unitarians talking about context is hypocritical

[@anissueofursincerity]

There was an interesting Moses movie a few years ago, Christian Bale played Moses. IN the movie Moses interacts with God in the form of a little boy. In the credits the boy is called Malak. Interesting. IN the dialogue Moses eventually becomes angry and complains that he realized he is talking to a representative.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Most people have no excuse - they intuitively know the truth about such matters don't they?

[@franciscafazzo3460]

Well for this one some have seen him and lived so how do you explain that when he appeared to Abraham when he appeared to Moses when he appeared to Samson's parents and he was because you why because they saw the incarnate God who was God with Us and you change the meaning of that verse by saying God the father was with us

[@WujekObamy]

John the Baptist asked if Jesus was the one they waited for and Jesus answered him: Luk 7:22-23: "And he answered and said unto them, Go and tell John the things which ye have seen and heard; the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good tidings preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall find no occasion of stumbling in me." That is a quote from OT of course: Isa 35:4-5: "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, with the recompense of God; he will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." Obviously ( not for people under antichrist's spirit) Jesus said: I am your God JHWH and as it was written I came to save you!

[@WujekObamy]

@Robert Shelborne Isa 52:6: "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak; behold, IT IS I." Mat 14:27: "But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; IT IS I; be not afraid." He's people know his name. You still have a time to repent...

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

WujekObamy, a blind man in John 9 said the same thing. Is he God too? Your claim is well into the goofy zone friend.

[@WujekObamy]

@@TheTrinityDelusion Goofy zone for those who parish... 1Co 1:23-24: "but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness; but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." Jhn 8:24: "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Your Jesus is a delusion and he can't save you... Psa 49:7-8: "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, Nor give to God a ransom for him (For the redemption of their life is costly, And it faileth for ever),"

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

The correct interpretation of John 8:24 is a basic reading comprehension issue which Trinitarians seem to have trouble with. See Here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWjMlaaEhNeMqac As for Psalm 49:7-8, did you even bother to read the preceding verse? The text is saying no man has enough financial wealth to redeem another. Basic reading comprehension again.

[@WujekObamy]

@Christian Man 1 verse for you as requested : Mat 28:19: "Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit," Father, Son and Spirit have one name. Name of the Father I think you should agree is JHWH. What is the name of the Son and the name of the Spirit aif they had the same name?

[@pietpompiepompiepiet940]

Deuternomium 18 verse 15 to 21 who is this foretold prophet?

[@boetaboer]

Dagse Piet Pompies!

[@pietpompiepompiepiet940]

@@boetaboer hello , bly om nog ñ afrikaanse besoeker te sien.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

See Acts 3:22-26

[@pietpompiepompiepiet940]

@@TheTrinityDelusion thanks for the reply. Is it the messiah Jesus(Yeshua)?.

[@boetaboer]

@@pietpompiepompiepiet940 Ja nee wat ou broer, hierdie saak [drie-enigheid van God] is waarmme ek tans woel! Belangrike saak dink ek, gesien dat die eerste gebod, die Joodse Shema en hele ou testament anders lui [in my opinie], is dit is vir enigiemand wat in die "moderne" kerke geskoei is, 'n stryd om te stry! Waar bevind jy jouself? Ek woon in Oz, Cooktown om presies te wees.

[@bosse641]

And Adam walked in the garden with God. ...The Father.

[@bosse641]

@Obake Oni Even an angel of God would know where Adam was. Obviously. There is One sitting on the throne Above, and the man Jesus(glorified) walking up to Him and receiving the scroll. ....Theophany is something you can look into. The Almighty One is obviously powerful enough to create Himself a body to occupy and work through. He speaks and it stands. (Psalm 33:9) Nothing is difficult for Him. Looks very likely to me that God revealed Himself to Adam in a theophany body and walked with him there in the garden. But all that was lost with the fall.

[@bosse641]

@Obake Oni An angel sent by God to minister to Adam would certainly know where he was.

[@bosse641]

@Obake Oni There is obviously higher wisdom at play here. We do not understand everything God does. His ways are past finding out. His ways are not our ways. He has said so, and so it is. Sometimes we just don't understand, and must settle with that. Sometimes we are not able to grasp His ways without revelation(Light).

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. 12 I will also WALK AMONG YOU and be your God, and you shall be My people. Leviticus 26:12-13 Since the Lord your God WALKS IN YOUR MIDST of your camp to deliver you and to defeat your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy. Deuteronomy 23:14 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, “I will dwell in them and WALK AMONG THEM and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.... I will be a Father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to Me.” Says the Lord Almighty. 2 Corinthians 6:16-18 There are numerous passages like Genesis 3:9 where God says "Where are you?" You should look them up. Take this one for example: "I thought, ‘After she has done all these things she will return to Me’; but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. " Jeremiah 3:6-7 So did God think wrong?

[@nikelemccain3664]

@Obake Oni If you have children, then you know that you have knowledge of what they have done, yet you still ask them. This is to open up the possibility of God dealing with them quite intimately. However, I can accept that it may have been an angel in the garden on behalf of God. This due to the overwhelming evidence of angels appearing as agents for God in the old testament.

[@renitv]

*I have a serious question.* *So, trinitarians are not going to be saved?* *Is salvation dependent on believing correct doctrines?*

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

That can't be answered with a blanket statement. Worship of a man-made god is idolatry. But who am I to say what will happen to someone who gives lip service to the Trinity but does not live their life accordingly?

[@dimitris_zaha]

No and no one knows

[@dimitris_zaha]

@C S how many times do u need to ask me this question? You obviously don't like my answer

[@dimitris_zaha]

@Christian Man that's not the reason I have answered him many times and he keeps repeating that now if you know nothing about me and jump to conclusions like you do with your Bible then that's your problem

[@josephjones4207]

Do a video on the Athanasian Creed

[@anissueofursincerity]

Unlike mainstream apologist like William Lane Craig, more recent trinis want to argue the Trinity is in the Hebrew Bible. But then they have to be able to explain why Judaism does not teach God is triune. Rejection of Jesus as the messiah is irrelevant. Jews could have believed their God was triune and still rejected that Jesus is the messiah.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

People are getting more warped every day. The early antichrist Gnostics supposed the true knowledge was a big secret to discover. Trinitarians treat their God in the same way - this God is not mentioned in Scripture so they think He is somehow hiding among the pages to be discovered. But in reality Trinitarians simply imagine their Triune God into the text. It seems as if people are losing touch with reality more and more thinking that their imaginations are as good as the truth. And so they pretend the Triune God is there in the pages of the Jewish tanakh when all they are really doing is imagining their invention into the text. Sad to behold.

[@anissueofursincerity]

@@johncathey2945 Yes I thought the majority of the messianics were non-trini but I am seeing more and more who are trini.

[@watchtoweralert1]

greetings bro

[@anissueofursincerity]

"Face to face" Panyim (sp) is rendered "face", is more literally "faces", it's a plural. The Hebrew does not have a singular form of the word. A connotation of the term can be similar to the term "persona", or forward presentation. An angel can be the face of God. IN Judaism an angel need not be a sentient creature with will. An angel can be a manifestation of God. Trinitarians take manifestations of God and attribute divine personhood to God's manifestations to create a multi-person deity in the OT.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

"IN Judaism an angel need not be a sentient creature with will. An angel can be a manifestation of God." Yes that is interesting but what do they base this upon?

[@anissueofursincerity]

The reverse question could also be asked. Why do we think a given angelic incident is a creature distinct from God himself? Judaism does not believe angels have free will. They do not believe in the existence of demons or Satan as a leader of the demons. Hasatan is servant of God who searches out iniquity.in God's service. Very different from most of Christianity. Look at the different between Jewish and Christian interpretations of the book of Job. In Christianity it is (usually) about diabolical harassment. In Judaism very different from that.

[@turntogod4410]

From what I see out of the Old Testament and New Testament the trinity can’t be found anywhere except in two spots. My only question would be what about in Revelation when Jesus is called the ALMIGHTY?

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Where?

[@turntogod4410]

◄ Revelation 1:8 ► Parallel Verses King James Version I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. I understand the Alpha/Omega explanation, but the Almighty? That’s the only phrase that makes me pump the breaks. In all fairness I just can’t find an explanation for that

[@turntogod4410]

The other thing that is puzzling is also in revelation when you talk about Jesus being the angel telling John not to worship him, the only problem with that is it says “I JESUS HAVE SENT this angel to testify”. So Jesus said he himself SENT the angel TO John TO testify.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

The speaker at 1:8 is the God of Jesus. Also compare other translations. " I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

[@turntogod4410]

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

[@williamgraves535]

Why did the explanation say no one sees God? I can't answer ... Copy behavior of Jesus language.

[@anissueofursincerity]

"If you have seen me you have seen the Father"

[@MrGurushit]

And so from then on He spoke in parables in order to confuse them lest they repent and be saved for they did not repent of their sins. And God shut them out of the ark.

[@brotherbatch8459]

always been the angel of the LORD

[@jonathanjensen189]

lol, just ask them who said "this is My beloved Son!" Was it an angel? (angels can speak for God) Was it the Father Himself? (the Father can actually be in the world) Was it Jesus AGAIN this time? (Jesus threw his voice and testified about himself, nullifying his statement and Peter's and John's) Maybe it was the Holy Spirit (undermines their proposition that it's not the Holy Spirit as the "Angel of the LORD") Who was that guy that came down in the cloud in the vision on the mountain with the disciples? Was it Jesus again this time? Sounds an awful lot like the Exodus thing, doesn't it?

[@Mckaule]

Yea man.. lately I just want to cry when I hear trinitarians make their statements about who is who. I feel hopelessness and despair and really don't understand the roots of being so blind to such a simple truth. May God be with you..

[@dimitris_zaha]

@@Mckaule so your god is simple ok I understand that

[@Mckaule]

@@dimitris_zaha truth is simple when you search it with all your heart.

[@dimitris_zaha]

@@Mckaule that's exactly what I did I didn't hear anyone the only religious person that I've met is my teacher no one else My mom follows the religion but isn't into it and my dad is an atheist so yeah I had to choose by myself

[@Mckaule]

@@dimitris_zaha I understand that those who follow Trinity doctrine are under huge old greko-roman principality and it's power lies in that it makes people follow men rather than God, it makes them blind to simplicity in Christ. People are seeking honor from men, serving their made system, entertaining and serving themselves they think are serving God. If people still watch TV, movies, listen to wordly music, putting makeup on their faces, having a hobby then they are way far from the Truth. "Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned ?" Proverbs 6:27 KJV

[@liwanagbautista8780]

Who was Melchisedec? Hebrew 7 seems to point at being Jesus. Help!!

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Melchizedek was a man, a King of Salem. Do you suppose he was reincarnated? The risen Jesus is after the order of Melchizedek. The writer's point is that to be a Levitical priest, you need a genealogy proving you are qualified to be a Levitical priest. You must be a Levite. Not so with the order of Melchizedek.

[@liwanagbautista8780]

@@TheTrinityDelusion Hebrews 7 verse 3 describing Melchizedek without parents and having neither beginning of days nor end of life but made like unto the son of God. Next verse says "son of man"......as I understand it, he is not human but very similar to Jesus Christ. I'm with you, Jesus tells us worship God with all our heart, soul and mind. With that said, Jesus has been around before the beginnig of time and is the son of God, he could come to earth anytime he wishes. And Salem is the city of peace, Jerusalem. Seems to me Melchizedek and Jesus are the same...but, I could be wrong. I just don't know. Thank you!

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Please think about what you are saying. He was the King of Salem. Do you really think there was a non-human King of an earthly city? Funny how much isn't said about such a fantastic thing. To be a priest under the Law you had to be a Levite and you had to prove you were a Levite by your Levitical parentage and genealogy. The writer's point is that no parentage of Melchizedek is given, no genealogy, nothing about his birth or his death, yet he was still rightly a priest. Jesus was not a Levite but from the tribe of Judah. He could not be a Levitical priest because he was not a Levite. See 7:14. But like Melchizedek, he was not a Levitical priest, he was a King-Priest.

[@liwanagbautista8780]

@@TheTrinityDelusion Oh! I thought Mary's Father was a Levi and her Mother Judah. Also, there was no Levi at this time....I'm not sure if Jacob was even born. Also, Salem was not a city but an honorary title, King of Salem which in the future will be King of Jerusalem meaning King of Peace. We just don't have enough information....could Jesus as "the Son of God being a Spirit" be in the old testament? Why not? Is Jesus God? No, he tells us that but to say he isn't in the old testament, we don't really know. Thank You for responding, I always look forward to your videos and I follow very closely with my bible. Thank you Brother.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

@@liwanagbautista8780 There is no information in the Bible concerning Mary's parents or her tribal lineage.

[@MrGurushit]

People asking questions lost in confusion. I tell them there’s no problem only solutions. And the fool on the hill is living there still. Blind leading the blind. You don’t even know yourselves.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Do you have nothing but empty babble?

[@Justadudeman22]

This Trinity business is a tough cookie to crack.

[@MrGurushit]

You either get it or you don’t. No one knows, but the fools try to fool God.

[@tentmaker2254]

I get it the trinity is complicated makes no sense etc. foreign to OT believers. BUT: John 1:1-14 just doesnt make sense any other way. All creation worshiping the Lamb should be idolatry. I mean, speaking so highly of a glorified man, Messiah, son of God? Too much praise still. Jesus is too much focus in the NT not to be God. All early church agreed He was God. Praying to man would be idolatry its like praying to Mary in catholicism. Not attacking your beliefs just saying my thoughts dont take it personally. Just so many verses like where it says prepare way for the LORD in wilderness and its John the Baptist preparing a way for JESUS (who would be the LORD in Isaiah, YHWH). in Him all is created, first creation, so so many verses. Also isnt this belief TOO CLOSE to Islam? Very scary. He is a man in both unitarianism and islam. ONE MORE THING important to me: Can some unitarian say to me: DOES the bible say that TRINITARIANS are not saved? Any verses point to believing in trinity = unsaved? show me

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

" John 1:1-14 just doesnt make sense any other way." Incorrect. You just haven't heard it so you are ignorant to it. "All creation worshiping the Lamb should be idolatry." This is also incorrect. All Israel bowed down before King David. It wasn't idolatry. All creation bows down before Jesus for the exact same reason all Israel bowed down before King David. "Just so many verses like where it says prepare way for the LORD in wilderness and its John the Baptist preparing a way for JESUS (who would be the LORD in Isaiah, YHWH)." Doesn't say John prepared the way for Jesus does it? Did you miss the part where Jesus said he came in the name of the Father? "Can some unitarian say to me: DOES the bible say that TRINITARIANS are not saved? Any verses point to believing in trinity = unsaved? show me" The Trinity is a man-made God. What does the Bible say about idolatry?

[@keithfuson7694]

Tentmaker why were David and Daniel worshipped in the OT? Men angels and creatures in authority legitimately receive honor homage OBEISANCE and worship. All will bow to and confess Jesus for the glory of God The Father. Because Jesus is the perfect representation of God, when we worship Him we worship God the Father who is the Deity of Christ.

[@bardowesselius4121]

Churchianity vs Islam, divide and conquer. Jesus exalted to God Himself vs Jesus did not die and was not resurrected. Both wrong. The truth is in the middle.

[@bardowesselius4121]

Try some history: onegodworship.com/how-plato-influenced-our-view-of-god/ contramodalism.com/overview/

[@tentmaker2254]

@C S Thank you. Good answers actually. Can you answer a few more: Do you believe in baptism in teh name of Father Son and Holy Spirit or in Jesus' name? do yo believe in speaking in tongues? and what about the trinitarians that have God performed miracles?

[@williamgraves535]

Problem no one enter heaven and see God... No one sees God.. Remember Whoever dies and enter th e heaven- What do you think jesus is no longer? Who is in heaven or no heaven - amazing enternal of living no funny! I say me I travel and enter the heaven... Long way - far I peek the sky ... No know person myself.. That why I can't answer myself personal ... I m very tired... Travel I can't remember myself a lot. I figure out myself.

[@gustavmahler1466]

It was the Word who appeared as the angel of the Lord the Word wasn't the Son before made flesh

[@mr.e1220]

Why don't we know God's Name? Calling Him God is like calling him deity. Sumerians wrote of Yahweh first

[@ezassegai4793]

Thats wrong. Sumerians did not predate jews and they worshipped multiple gods and goddesses. No JHWH in sumerian religion.

[@ezassegai4793]

We do know God's name. It is JHWH. It is in the OT. Also calling God God is correct because He is the only God so there is noone else that could be refered to as God.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Mr. C Where did Abraham come from?

[@mr.e1220]

@@TheTrinityDelusion Ur in Mesopotamia. Same area. But those Gods of Sumeria have scriptures much older with creation of Adam and the flood coming from "a god of anger" and Anu is like a Father and Enlil and Enki Ea are His sons. Why did the Bible borrow from Sumerian texts? Were their God's fallen angels? They were real powerful. They had much knowledge. Look at the precision granite cuts on the walls built by Annunaki people. Who were they? Their creation story actually has more details than Genesis account.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

@@mr.e1220 How do you know the Bible borrowed from these texts? That would be an assumption. You need to consider that both came from another source.

[@humsterstories9736]

Well, even the jews had to admit that. Now they are to admit the fact that noone has seen a god because there is no god

[@ezassegai4793]

You are wrong.

[@kingluisdavidg7953]

King David7🔯 ‏שלום alpha Omega holy 🗝🗝🗝🗝🗝🗝🗝 The beginning in the end

[@normanmcdermid4257]

Jesus could never have been God, because thousands of people saw Jesus in the time that he was on the Father.

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

The only God is HIS God.

[@alexolga11]

Trinity confused a lot

[@SyedMuhammadMoaz3634]

@Zeal! No it is taught in both old and new treatments.

[@alanwilson7084]

If Jesus isn’t God then he couldn’t forgive sin. In the Old Testament God says he the only one to forgive sin and God doesn’t waver or changes his mind . So who lied then Jesus or God ?

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

You are incorrect. Read your Bible more carefully. The Pharisees thought the same thing and Jesus proved them wrong. God had given the authority to forgive sins to MEN. Matthew 9:1-8. " But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to MEN" Jesus came in the name of the Father. What he did was in the Father's name and authorized by the Father. I demonstrate this in detail here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5W8gpeBfcSGq7s

[@keithfuson7694]

Alan Wilson Not true. God gives men the authority to forgive sins. Jn20 Mt9 God can forgive sins through His representatives who receive the authority to do so from God the Father.

[@bardowesselius4121]

Yup. The Father gave him the authority to do so.

[@WujekObamy]

Am 4:10-11: ""I sent plagues among you as I did with Egypt. I killed your choicest young men with the sword. I took your horses away from you. I filled your noses with the stench of your encampments, but you have not returned to me,"declares the Lord. "I overthrew your cities, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You've become like a burning ember, snatched from the fire, but you have not returned to me,"declares the Lord." Who is the Lord that speaks here and who overthrew cities the same way as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah?

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Jesus Christ's God. And He did this by sending his angels to do it. Your Bible tells you this. But you get your information from your imagination don't you? Genesis 19 "Now the two ANGELS came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground (what is Lot doing bowing down to angels Hmmm?)......... whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for WE ARE ABOUT TO DESTROY this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord HAS SENT US TO DESTROY IT.” WHO destroyed the city? "14 Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, “Up, get out of this place, for THE LORD will destroy the city.” Your interpretatations stem from ignorance.

[@WujekObamy]

@@TheTrinityDelusion I understand that Lord (JHWH) said that He destroyed them cities the same way as God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah... Lord did something the same way as God did... I don't understand how someone can not see it??? Gen 19:24: "Then the Lord rained sulfur and fire out of the sky from the Lord on Sodom and Gomorrah," No wonder you don't see that Lord that is on Earth at the moment sent sulfur and fire from the Lord that is in heaven... I suggest you to read a book called " Two powers in heaven" by Alan F. Segal to start with and of course pray to God the Father to show you the glory of God the Son by the revelation of God the Spirit...

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

@@WujekObamy I see my post went completely over your head. That is one reason I am reluctant to engage in these discussions. In Genesis 19, WHO said they were sent to destroy Sodom?

[@WujekObamy]

@@TheTrinityDelusion who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah according to Am 4:11?

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

@WujekObamy It says elohim did it. In your Bible even men are called elohim. Jesus himself pointed this out. Genesis 18 says the angels sent by Yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. And you would do well not to forget that fact when you read Genesis 19:24. ALSO, you will find the Hebrews writer confirming that the "elohim" mentioned at Psalm 8:5 are in fact angels. So now that you know these facts, what are YOU going to say? Whatever suits your personal desires?

[@williamgraves535]

Ok .... You believe in jesus or God... I say no problem .... I m tired. Up to you , you believe in jesus or God. I can't answer myself I travel. Serous!

[@williamgraves535]

How year the primards were more than Moses ? No idea! Adam and Eve were made a dust of bodied by Jesus... Good believers are not many... Behaviors were grown by rages or dreams .. Discussion - evil ... How year the earth were ? See the rocks - galaxies Lava Envoiroment Water Land Where is electric? One story Whoever appeared ... A modern humans shocked by the unknown mystery .. No jesus No God. Sorry! You have been pleasured and believed in Adam and Eve. Ok....

[@williamgraves535]

Why Jesus is to be claimed God? Remember... Jesus told the truth.. Scribes called him a liar.. Jesus said devil of father did to scribes. Why did jesus ourassary in the family site? Samchi Jacobovici said the nailed foot . don't believe or believe you choose. The jesus family sites you checked

[@ravenraven966]

@C S , I have a question . I have never believed that Jesus was the Father. When fellow Christians tell me that Jesus is God I can't understand. Am I wrong . Please keep your answer as simple as possible as this confusion has done a number on my brain. Thank you

[@ravenraven966]

@Robert Shelborne , excellent, Thanks brother. I understand completely

[@alanwilson7084]

Why is Jesus called God in the Old Testament

[@keithfuson7694]

Alan Wilson He never is! The God in the OT is God the Father. The Father is the only true God.

[@dimitris_zaha]

Because the old testament is true

[@ezassegai4793]

Why is Jesus called God in the OT? You mean Isaiah 9;6 which says that the messiah will be called everlasting Father. Jesus said that the Father and Jesus are one. Jesus is therfor the image of God. Its actually very simple if you dont mess around with extrabiblical ideas.

[@keithfuson7694]

Alan Wilson why is Moses and the Israelite judges called god in the OT? because creatures in authority can be called a god representative. The Father is the only true God. When you see Jesus you see the Father(the Deity) in a representative way. Jesus is the son of the Father. Jesus is not the Father. Therefore Jesus can't be God. Jesus is the highest best most glorious most perfect symbol and representation of God the Father Who is the Deity of Jesus.

[@dimitris_zaha]

@@keithfuson7694 because god and God are different

[@jasonwthompson5003]

Who has the power to forgive sins?

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

God gave the authority to forgive sins to men. Matthew 9:8

[@jasonwthompson5003]

The Trinity Delusion so Jesus can forgive sins? Yes?

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

@@jasonwthompson5003 Of course he could. He proved the Pharisees were wrong (Mark 2:7) and God had given authority to men. Matthew 9:8. Jesus came in the name of his God and Father.

[@jasonwthompson5003]

The Trinity Delusion I jesus gave the authority to those men.

[@jasonwthompson5003]

The Trinity Delusion I do like you channel. I don’t come against you my friend I believe that God was in the flesh of Jesus.

[@Fred63205]

Psalm 146:3

[@irondisciplex9610]

I guess that was worth waiting a year for :-)

[@MrGurushit]

I never argue with fools

[@dunklaw]

Ezekiel 20:35 is interesting.

[@Mckaule]

John the Baptist saw the third person of the Trinity descending on Jesus and lived. Lol !

[@keithfuson7694]

Mckaule I didn't know God was a dove. Wow. what insight.

[@Mckaule]

@@keithfuson7694 Trinitarians say HS is a dove.. what a morons.. they will say whatever to wiggle their tale and protect their idol.

[@MrGurushit]

I came not to bring you peace but division

[@SyedMuhammadMoaz3634]

@Zeal! Jesus clearly came to bring peace but for believers he brought sword for disbelievers.

[@MrGurushit]

I’m so glad you’re confused

[@TheTrinityDelusion]

Empty words

[@MrGurushit]

The Trinity Delusion Blah blah blah

[@MrGurushit]

Those that claim they know don’t

[@MrGurushit]

Keep the fools guessing

[@marekpala6442]

Amen..