OLD vs NEW Kamado Joe Double Indirect... THIS Performs BEST!

[@tez8754]

Thanks!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

You rock. Thanks 🙏

[@wesleydrew9242]

These results should do 2 things. It encourages people with a series 1 or 2 to forgo the purchase of a slo-roller and jump into the v3 DI method with a less expensive upgrade. It should also get KJ back to the designing an upgrade of the slo-roller so they can make one that withstands higher temps than 300 degrees. Great video as always!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

It would be awesome to see that!

[@user-ho1yn6ms7y]

Agreed. I have a slow roller for my KJ Classic 2 and I’ve always wondered if I didn’t build the firebox correctly, because I’ve never been able to get the lid to seat properly fully closed and latched. So I improvised James’s original double indirect method with a foil-wrapped pizza stone in the bottom part of the rack where the deflector plates would normally go, and then the deflector plates in position 1, with grill grates on position 2. I can still get an unbelievable smoke ring with this setup. One of these days I need to completely disassemble the firebox anyway to install the Kick Ash can.

[@melissabombard8402]

Thanks James! I have a classic Joe series 2 and have been using your double indirect method with the pizza stone on all my slow cooks and the food has come out so good I haven’t been motivated to spend the extra $ on a slow roller. It makes me feel better to see in this video that other than fuel efficiency, I’m not missing out on anything. Thank you for sharing this!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

You are definitely not missing out on anything with your setup!

[@joemodzelewski3242]

Thanks for all the thoughtful insight. You set the bar for everyone else. Have a great new year and I wish you continued success.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Cheers, I appreciate it! Happy new year

[@herb7877]

EXCELLENT info ! I've been using the pellet tube for ~3 years. Learned the first few times it would not stay lit when smoking. Then tried the cold smoke for 2-3 hours prior to lighting the coal in the KJ. Also works great on my Weber gas grills.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

💯

[@6AnAsianGuy9]

Great scientific approach to finding ways to keep your smoking/grilling game improving. Keep it up! I love this content and have been using the second pizza stone in lieu of the sloroller since you tried that in that one video. The only downside is that you have to have a way to protect the pizza stone from cracking from liquids falling down. I used cheap pizza stones at first which cracked. Then I got a thicker pizza stone which I cover in aluminum foil prior to the food going on and have had no problem since and only churned out good food!

[@mattyfrancis9169]

Great video James! I got into kamado cooking by following your entry level Akorn videos. I used to set up double indirect in almost the same way (your v3 method) on that but I used cut down fire bricks as spacers. I’ve now upgraded to the BJ3 with comparable but not the same results, & only thought to myself the other day I should trying double deflectors instead of the slo roller & deflectors.

[@zackw7587]

Great testing. Reinforces my decision to ditch the slow roller for straight double indirect. Slow roller started flaking from 400 degree cooks.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

My friends have ones that have done the same

[@Keith80027]

Thank you James for verifying what I doing with my large Green Egg that I started doing in 2020. I put a pizza stone right above my charcoal followed by egg expander with with a cast iron plate (live in dry area no rust) and cook with a dome temperate of 300 to 325F. Briskets and pull pork turns out great with one load of charcoal with some left over, put not much. This setup tastes far better than just the expander. I also noticed my egg has less soft creosote on the lid insides and what is there is hard. This is all what I done after watching your early slo roller videos. Thanks for all your input over the years. I also just tasted my cold smoked salmon and cream cheese that I smoked with my pellet tube 3 weeks ago in my green egg. Wow is what my wife and family said on Christmas Eve dinner.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Amazing. I have a egg video coming but it’s basically what you’re already doing

[@Keith80027]

@@SmokingDadBBQ That is great. This is what I been using "Large Big Green EGG Accessory Ring - CGS Large Spider". Just put a pizza stone it.

[@dannyd.2178]

Thanks for another great video. I live in Toronto and would love to get the CGS spider accessory, but I don’t think they ship to Canada. Any suggestions? Thank you.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

@@dannyd.2178I used cross border pickups dot ca to ship to a us address and they bring it over for a fee

[@LeanWithMike]

Its great to see your V3 results! Crazy enough, I've been running V3 on my BJ2 for the last 1.5 years and always have to add coals with longer brisket cooks. Glad to see I'm not going crazy in terms of the coals not lasting lol 😅. Thanks for the great guidance!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Some coals last longer than others but in this case even my fogo gave up the ghost when I tried cooking the offset shoulders after the main cook was done

[@Bigfish1day]

I like this new video. I have the second generation Big Joe and think the pizza stone trick.

[@michaelmiller8914]

Earlier this year I made 4 boston butt's. I had to rotate them frequently as they were in a 24 x 24 smoker

[@jeffreyschmidt3997]

Don't think I've ever been this early to watching the video. Great info as always. As an owner of the comments, it's good to know that i don't need some special gimmicky branded device (e.g. SloRoller) to match the results you're getting!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

100%

[@KyleWong-ze1tg]

Thanks for doing this video. I've contemplated buying the SloRoller but just havent pulled the trigger. I'll get a pizza stone now and try this setup instead.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Pizza stone benefit is that you can also use it for pizza so it’s a little more versatile and less money so I think a great option

[@jwilson086]

FYI this works on other brands as well - I have a vision series S and bought the Kamado Joe divide & conquer rack which fits and works just like you show here. Thank you for the content, it’s helped my cooking skills with a Kamado tremendously!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

100% works with others

[@williamwilson2624]

Great video, James! The pork shoulders looked amazing!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks

[@Johnssouthencooking]

Thanks for the info, I will try the cold smoke 💪

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Let me know what you think

[@AverageJoeBBQ]

Hey James, I've been watching a few bbq videos that mention they cold smoke their food for hours before bumping up the heat. Do you think that is something that can be achieved on a KJ. ? I would love to see you make a video discussing that.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

That’s the exact setup shown in this video

[@Alzybaby]

Wow. I'm drinking from the firehose with all of that information. I'm expecting a smoker/grill replacement relatively soon and this helps tremendously to narrow the field to a KJ series II or a masterbuilt gravity XT. I'm still leaning the the KJ II based on quality and efficiency. While the double indirect may use more charcoal, the difference is probably insignificant for the average person who doesn't do low and slow smokes multiple times a week. Smoking less frequently and committing that much time to the process easily justifies burning more lump charcoal (KJ vs XT?).

[@CoolJay77]

Great video, which brings up the reminder that efficiency can work against a better BBQ.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

100%

[@GrantHendrick]

Very helpful video - thank you!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

You are very welcome!

[@brentmathews8796]

James, I think your videos are normally spot on but for me I get the best brisket results cooking around 250. Definitely feel like the fat renders the longer it’s on the grill. I’ve tried the double indirect method on my BJ3 at 275 but again, for me, 250 works best. Didn’t come here to knock you in any way, just wanted to share my experience.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Brisket doesn’t love too fast. I agree with a little less can be more on a brisket to render fat inside

[@beachstl]

Great video! Love to hear the pizza stone is even more versatile.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

💯

[@briansymes2936]

Great video James I’m going to buy the kick ash set up for my KJBJ1 now they are half price on sale here in Australia!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Smoking deal

[@xbhollandx]

So glad you just popped up in my recommendations. I’m going through your back catalog now. I also went ahead and purchased your Kamado Joe bundle. I love all the diagrams and suggestions. However, can you host the file elsewhere? Dropbox forced me to create an account, before it would even let me download the file.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks and welcome. I will ask the web developers if they have any other options

[@johnsheppard6447]

James - Very interesting! You said in some of your earlier videos that the BJ3 was the best breathing kamado (i.e. least fuel efficient) due to the extra height, and here you come to the opposite conclusion. I even remember some videos where the sloroller produced a darker bark than the BJ1 setup. What about the double indirect with the pizza stone vs. slo-roller makes it consume more fuel, do you think? Also, do you still think the water pan is best practice? if so, where does it go in this new setup? Under the pizza stone? Just did some beef ribs today with the "old" double indirect method, they turned out fantastic. Thanks for the continuous testing and innovation - you're the reason I got my BJ3!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

The sloroller specs have changed so keeping that in mind so do the results. I can’t do all variables at once so this was just about my first setup against the one that I did later with stones to work on all models. In this particular set of parameters the older models produced an equally great result. There’s still more to sort out with other variables now that we can lock that in and move on

[@bigjerm9657]

I load more chips and chunks into my kick ash can through the bottom vent using long bbq tongs during a cook if needed. Works great for adding ribs to the end of a long cook to get some fresh smoke on them.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

💯

[@Real_PK]

It'll be interesting to see if the CFD research comes up with anything new to try.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Can’t wait for them to wrap up

[@TA-Joe]

Would love to see this same comparison smoking ribs 😋

[@alvinwasserman1397]

@@TA-Joe I’ve done big plate beef ribs ( that’s uncut short ribs) on my Classic 2, double indirect with pizza stone. Hugely successful- temp about 300-325. 43/4 hours. Elevated rack to hold 12 big ribs. Only issue was ran out of fuel at about 31/2 hour mark and had to oven finish. It’s cool up in Canada and double indirect pizza stone method gobbles up fuel (started with full basket).Tender, nice bark more than enough smoke.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Thanks. Cheers

[@TA-Joe]

@@alvinwasserman1397great info! Thank you

[@missinbrain]

I’ve run many cooks in my BJ1 using your recommended double indirect method with the pizza stone and had great results. The hardest part for me is getting the deflectors over the basket without them falling in. I’ve gone through a few high heat gloves at this point 😅 but the results and consistency are undeniable.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

It is a pain but totally worth it. A second x ring can make it easier

[@glennruby6843]

@@SmokingDadBBQ I bought the CGS Spider accessory for my BJ3 - hook leg version, along with a pair of 16 inch deflector halves. If you play with kamados, Ceramic Grill Store needs to be on the radar for accessories. Instantly thrilled from first use - keeps my hands / gloves out of the fire - no worry of dropping a deflector plate in because the accessory is constructed to work as a wok ring which also provides additional support. Good spot to add a water pan if desired also. Cheaper than an extra x-ring which was hard to even find. This has become my go-to for shorter double indirect cooks where temperatures closer to 400 degrees or more to finish the cook at the end are intended. Much easier to pop a deflector plate out than dismantling a hot slo-roller setup mid cook.

[@ronscott700]

I concur completely with you about the Ceramic Grill Store, Tom and his family are always helpful and knowledgeable with any questions you have. Also, they have almost any Kamado accessory you may want.

[@jamesorr1200]

I love these videos where you re-visit your full process on the kamado from time to time. Just curious, but when you use the slo-roller, do you prefer putting the deflectors on top of the charcoal basket or on the X-accessory ring above the slo-roller?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I find it works better below the sloroller than this my original setup above

[@acabello72]

Thanks for the video. Is there a similar setup for the BGE XL? Or is the method described in your guide for double indirect enough?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I have a BGe book showing what I did on the egg. The video comes out in a few weeks. It needed a cgs spider and spare stones

[@michaelgreer5836]

I use the pizza stone on the bottom it sits on the tabs of the charcoal basket so easily. Then deflectors on top. Boom. Don't have to give up charcoal basket airflow

[@TheThoom92]

Really nice! I don't have a kamado joe but it does have a multi level system. Next time I will try the double indirect method ❤

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Let me know what you think

[@LaserGuy64]

Nice video! Note on the kick ash can, not optimal for series 3 KJ as they are not deep enough.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Showed around 14:40… you don’t want metal that expands sitting flush against ceramics as that can cause cracks

[@LaserGuy64]

@@SmokingDadBBQ The problem on series 3 KJ is that the can is much too shallow, maybe 1.5-2 inches short. According to the peeps over at Kickash, it fits nicely for series 1 and 2, but not as nice for the series 3 which has the deeper body. They do not plan on making one that fits the series 3 in an optimum way. It is just OK in this way today, but I would love it if it was a bit deeper.

[@jevpoa]

Thanks James! Would you say the vent settings change with the pizza stone double indirect method as opposed to using the slo roller double indirect?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

They stay within 1/8th of an inch

[@jevpoa]

Thank you James! Just wanted to say thanks to all your hard work and your kindness to share all your experiences, you are the reason I purchased the Big Joe 3 this time last year. Hope you and the family have a great New Year!

[@nathanegert1052]

What size kick ash basket is inside the big joe series 1?

[@nirglazer5962]

you should try those smoke gun things after shredding. you burn real 'wood' (small woodchips) but if you do it after shredding you'll add smoke past the bark and you could maybe get a stronger flavor. Could be interesting experiment of comparing that with the pellet and the cold smoke.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Interesting. I’ll look into it.

[@BradleyFitzhenry]

James, what was the cook time on the series 1? Kind of surprised the charcoal was done.

[@tedkarnitz7021]

What is the minimum air gap distance between the pizza stone and deflector plates you would recommend?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

0.5” is great

[@tedkarnitz7021]

You're the best... except you make me spend too much money 😂

[@davebuti6270]

when you did the cold smoke, what type of pellets did you use? Also, how did you get the temp that high with just the pellet tube? I cold smoke cheese in my kamado, and the temp doesn't get above 90, which is the borderline for cheese.

[@ronscott700]

I think this may be a senior moment on my part, but I recall either you or Al (Eat More Vegans) comment that you can use the Ceramic Grill Store Spider Rig and Pizza stone to create a double indirect set up for the Big Green Egg. Is this true? Also, I saw your video using a Fredstone for indirect cooking on a Primo. I used balled up foil legs between the Fredstone and top ceramics to create space for indirect cooking and that worked great for one of my briskets. I am convinced that double indirect is the future for Kamado cooking.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Yes. I actually have an egg video coming showing my spider to do double indirect on a egg

[@ronscott700]

@ YOU DA MAN!

[@emmgeevideo]

Next experiment: Use of DoJoe vs. double indirect. All of your discussions of offset vs. KJ, my takeaway is that "fresh smoke" and convection airflow is the secret sauce for better taste. Another thing I'd like Dr. SDBBQ to weigh in on is whether to offset the Kick Ash Can a bit (as shown in all of the views I've seen on your channel) so that the opening is smaller than perfectly aligning the KAC with the opening in the KJ. FWIW, at ~5:00, the correct word is "exacerbate", not something like "exasperate".

[@michaelwestberg1450]

It would be intresting to see you try and experimenting with a Fredstone.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I did that in the primo 6 racks of ribs

[@WillGowKelowna]

Great shirt

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Ha thanks

[@shedden24]

Do you need the can or can it just call in without anything down there?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

You don’t need the can. I have removed the wings and just used the tray before. The can just makes life easier for clean up

[@kellystastny4653]

How long does it take to cook a shoulder at 300F ?

[@jimc1906]

Love the method. I thought you were including a water pan now ... or is that version 4.0?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Yes couldn’t fit that variable in. Just my original no water vs latest setup that works on all series

[@crizo7]

Cold smoke dirty (pellet tubes are dirty in my experience) then do your normal clean smoke cook to finish, huh. That’s how I’ve always done it and everyone tells me I’m stupid. Fwiw the same thing works in a pellet grill, including using pizza stones as air gaps.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I don’t find them as dirty as what a Kamado with too much wood and not enough air does. I reserve the label dirty smoke for that which is just creosote

[@warrenchester8467]

Thanks for the continually excellent videos. I have a problem I hope you can help me with and haven’t seen the solution in your portfolio. I stupidly tried to move my KJ Classic 2 when it was still warm and although I knew better in the heat of the moment I tried to lift it by the hinge. Since then there has been a gap at the back. Having watched your videos on lid alignment I have been able to push the bottom ring down again with the application of weight on the lid and tighten it up so it all looks great until I use it again when it slips again. I’m guessing the metal ring is expanding with heat. If you have any suggestions or advice they would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Warren

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Is your hinge screws at the back tight?

[@warrenchester8467]

Super tight, the brackets are bending in.

[@warrenchester8467]

Ah. Just saw you said hinge screws. The band screw is super tight. Haven’t checked the hinge.

[@thedani0937]

James what would you recommend getting a joe jr or a series 1 considering for 300 dlls more I would get more cooking space with the seies 1 ? it would be my first kamado.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I would do series 1 for more space but it depends how much space you need and how often you use it

[@wlewis1840]

James, love the video but you are not my favorite person right now. I have convinced myself to go with KJBJ3 as my first kamado, now you release this video which is a game changer. What did I do to you? Just kidding I am still going with the 3 I like the three tier rack system better. Thanks for the info, and work you put in. I would like to see a comparison with the Joe kettle, vs the Weber kettle. I have my opinion which one would be better, but would love to see a head to head low and slow cook.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

It’s still spectacular and the most versatile with the extra space but this is more about people that have older ones knowing they can turn out a great result.

[@milosbulaja5394]

This might seem a little far fetched but based on your observations that more fuel enhances flavor, I’m curious if you were to do a triple indirect method with the deflector plates, slo roller, and then the pizza stone, if that would generate better results. Otherwise great video, James!

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Burning hardly any wood imparts less flavour than when you burn more wood. I am 100% confident in that discovery

[@milosbulaja5394]

@ I don’t disagree with you but now I’m generally curious if doing the triple indirect would enhance even more flavor

[@bigjerm9657]

Do you still recommend the double indirect system cooking at 250-275 degrees?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

Yes the fat renders better on brisket around 270 than it does above 300

[@jimchancy1303]

I have a Big Joe II and it’s been disappointing from the start. The only way I have found to keep the temp at 250 or below is to shut down the vents so much that the smoke doesn’t vent like it should. Anyone else have issue with the Big Joe II? He always talks about the 1 and 3, which makes me wonder if the two was poorly designed. I had an older BGE that was bullet proof and simple to set up. After a year and plenty of cooks, I regret moving to the Big Joe II. Curious if others have had issues with this model.

[@thunder9538]

Question: cold smoking can be very dangerous. Can the risk of cold smoking by finishing the meat at higher temps be eliminated?

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I am under two hours and then move into hot smoke. The food temp is increasing and stays out of the danger zone / time risk with this approach. Plus the food going to 200 kills anything that’s a concern but I don’t push the times beyond what I showed here to be safe

[@thunder9538]

@ Thanks for the response.

[@BlindManzBluffGaming]

Hey James. 1) Wouldn't it be easier using the pizza stone on the basket vs the deflectors? 2) How are you wearing a Hawaiian shirt in December in Canada🤔(lol)? Merry Christmas

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

The pizza stone doesn’t quite fit on the tabs. This was recorded earlier in the summer

[@rodpinfold8824]

Such a shame the slow roller advantages have been cut by 40%, the Classic II looks by far the better offer now as I’m looking to buy my first Red.

[@scotimotti]

You people are out of your ever loving mind...completely absolutely ridiculous.

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

How so

[@Satire-Gaming]

I do not agree, my pellet smoker gets lots of great smoke flavor. You cannot pretend like you have used and tested every pellet smoker in the world lol...

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I’ve competed at Memphis in may, had some of the best spots in Texas and have tested dozens of pellet grills but correct. Not all makes and models

[@thomasmoshier3920]

James, I think we should see less of you and more of the wife. She’s so much easier on the eyes……

[@SmokingDadBBQ]

I knew we got married for a reason 😂