On Writing: soft magic systems in fantasy [ Tolkien l Game of Thrones l Harry Potter ]

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Books shows references across both P1 and P2:
1. A Song of Ice and Fire.
2. Lord of the Rings.
3. Harry Potter.
4. Avatar (TLA/LoK).
5. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
6. The Black Company.
7. The Belgariad.
8. Wheel of Time.
9. The Inheritance Cycle.
10. The Death Gate Cycle.
11. King Arthur: Legend of the Sword.
12. Hunter x Hunter.
13. Stranger Things.
14. The Hobbit.
15. Mistborn.
16. Stormlight Archives (I think?).
17. The Kingkiller Chronicles.

[@HelloFutureMe]

GET ON WRITING AND WORLDBUILDING VOL II (the book with ALL the discussions we've had + tons of extra depth and detail) I linktr.ee/timhickson ~ Tim

[@andrewriker4369]

Hello Future Me I think I prefer soft magic, maybe it can cut down on tension but it has so much possibility, like for some hard magic systems they can get too predictable and become boring. And then some books find the perfect balance. Also hope you're editing went well, 15 HOURS? You must really like us. All hail MISHKA Kawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[@emmanuelobregon3308]

React to race to the edge season 6 PLZ pin me

[@thetypingdragon2239]

I'm split. I love stories with magic systems that have strict rules and limitations, because they start to feel less like classical magic and more like something entirely unique. On the other hand, I also love the mysticism and possibilities of softer magic systems. In complete extremes though, I'd say. That I prefer the hard magic system.

[@animemageqo6741]

Hello Future Me please please please make a video explaining the white wag why is it so important. Did it give Asoc the power to control the gundabad wags? Please explain this in your next video

[@Poke-ladd]

I kind of like the magic system which certain manga and anime use which subdivides magic into class and categories due to their effects eg Overlord and its Tiers of magic where 5th and 6th is the limit of what humans can comprehend

[@CrapE_DM]

You really like that Gandalf head-bobbing to saxophone clip, don't you?

[@MyThoughtsBelow]

I hate that clip.

[@sporeham1674]

You’re not a human.

[@matthewbateman6487]

I could watch a 10 hour loop of that!

[@Bluey_the_cat_976]

I like hard butts and soft boobies.

[@JoshArgentine]

that clip is glorious; it deserves to be loved

[@mehmeh2255]

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!

[@FrankClark]

Supreme executive power derives from the mandate of the masses! Not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!

[@danielsjohnson]

For those that don't know, they're referencing a funny movie called "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".

[@rebeccatanner1794]

Help! I'm being repressed!

[@firetarrasque4667]

Did any of you notice that they aren't actually farming, but instead hitting puddles with their hoes?

[@shadowpod13]

Frank Clark. I agree. But the masses can be very idiotic at times. Just take a look at who the president of the great U.S.A is right now.

[@mac4951]

I want “A WIZARD DID IT” on a T-shirt

[@squibble311]

everyone wants that

[@TheZiiFamily]

Ill take one!

[@laufeysuniverse2698]

Or a wizard did me.

[@lightyagami77777]

Harry Potter's capabilities are limited to the spells he has learned and trained throughout the book. That is why Hermione exists. She is an incredibly intelligent wizard, and when you combine that with the fact that she isn't our pov character, it's safe to say that at any given moment she could conveniently know a spell to solve a problem.

[@TheGuyAlwaysOnTime]

Deus ex Hermione

[@ImOnioned]

Not that Rowling intended it

[@dragonbane44]

I dont exactly remember Hermione pulling deus ex machina out of her hat. She doesnt do any complex spells which any other good students cant do. She just feels like a book smart and talented student, but still a student. Out of her depth in many fights.

[@ricky.t.1658]

@@dragonbane44this response is the right answer to the stupid coment

[@aodhfyn2429]

I prefer hard magic systems that are presented as soft. That is: magic systems with absolute, unbending reality/rules that are not immediately explained to the reader, and instead left to be a matter of discovery.

[@irvs5922]

Jacob French exactly. Those are my favourite. To show something that appears as an unknown force to then be studied and catalogued as a well explained tool.

[@iaifia3224]

Agreed i created one. Baisicly, its a dnd type game that uses a mana system. All mana comes from a infinate hidden dimension called the fraction. None of the charactors know about it except like 2 to 5. One of the really cool things, is that we have created this world in multiple time periods, ranging from basic fantasy to future. In the future, the prospect of magic is science we dont understand is flipped almost. The tech is powered by this magic. But the really cool thing about the fraction is that it ties the timelines together. Because of the fraction, it is technacly feasible to break the fourth wall, but drive your characters insane by the prospect that they are fake made up imaginary toys, but it is is still amazing. It gives the author to fully unserstand the actual magic system to see if the characters suddenly doing something amazing is possible while leaving the charactors in wonder.

[@iaifia3224]

@Caleb Kremer i have not read or seen it. Can you explain?

[@jonispatented]

Caleb Kremer this is a really good example of this, I think. Also, Lelouch’s Geass is a pretty good example. I like the Death Note example though because Light is able to trick people as to what the rules are because of how mysterious, yet logical the real rules are. He can manipulate the nature of rules in logical ways because he understands them so well. I like Lelouch’s Geass as well, since many incredibly powerful actions are taken by Lelouch, yet none of them feel like he cheated because the rules are so clear and concise, but only to Lelouch and C.C. (Of course the viewer understands as well.)

[@hereshotrod3873]

Same here. Hard magic>soft magic.

[@happychaosofthenorth]

I think that regardless of whether a writer is using hard or soft magic systems, it's important for the AUTHOR to understand all the 'rules' even if the readers or their characters never understand or learn all the 'rules' or the source/limitations/costs etc of the magic in their world. Even if mysterious and never explained, if there's enough consistency in how it's used, that too can avoid the "A WIZARD DID IT!" problem.

[@Admiralmeriweather]

the joke here is that Tolkien basically creates a hard magic system but witholds the rules.

[@Ben-fl6vy]

Admiralmeriweather I think so too probably. I think he's very conscious to keep it very limited to beings that are above human, and to elves in proportion to their age/knowledge of middle earth and the Valar. Even Elrond has very limited power, dreaming and discerning don't solve problems cheaply, nor do masterfully "magic assisted" ropes, boats and cloaks. "Elves don't die of age, but doof battle" it's clearly explained, and quite hard I think, and allows for, you predicted it, craftsmen and fighters that are very experienced. He does a great job of showing that Gandalf is limited, and then removing him from the scene in both the hobbit and LOTR. I'd argue the rules of the magic of the ring are hard relating to the invisibility, and a soft cost. "putting it on alerts sauron", is a very hard element, aside from some other mystery to the cost. Sometimes the cost is so great, Galadriel going evil, that the abilities the ring would afford her are just as well left a mysterious mystery.

[@lucasbortoluzzi9369]

@@Ben-fl6vy this is still soft magic, no one knows what is the ring true potential if someone powerfull held it and we don't know why it's cost (which is going crazy and becoming a servitor of sauron), affects poeples more than others we just have to guess it's about will power or this kind of stuff. There's a lot of creature or beings that are not explained, they are just here part of the world and explaining those is impossible. we know very few of what's all that magic is about and especially when reading the books this magic is very present but it's described and not explained because there's no need for precise explainations as the whole book is seem coherent. that's why it's a master piece. also you talked about elves, no they can't do whatever they want but all their magic is very mysterious and the only explanation you got is "it's what elves do" it's still coherent because there's the same silver and nature theme all the way long but yet it's not explained. soft magic doesn't mean that characters can do everything they want but that their own capacities are not clearly definied.

[@Ben-fl6vy]

@@lucasbortoluzzi9369 Agreed overall. Regarding your last sentence, I'd say I was arguing that it wasn't soft to the point of a fault. My thinking being that too hard or too soft would be bad, avoiding an extreme being best. I suppose that another maybe better way to put it would be that it's soft done well and not clumsily.

[@itszaque5031]

Id say TLoTR is harder once you read Tolkiens other books/volumes on the world. Fan theories have also done a good job on explaining the hard magic present, even if Tolkien didnt explain it. One of the reasons that TLoTR works well still is that it is a story from the perspectives of hobbits and humans mainly, who dont have a good grasp of the hard magic they cant see, thus making it easier for Tolkien to treat it like a soft system. In fact, I like The Lord of the Rings more than Harry Potter as a whole, mostly because Harry as a Wizard should understand and use a lot more magic simply because he is a powerful wizard, where as Frodo is a simple hobbit who never gains much of an understanding of what the ring can do. It always bugged me that Harry would use powerful spells on occasion, and then seemingly forgets how in a later situation.

[@fantasyalover4782]

@@itszaque5031 Harry is not the only one who are not allowed to use magic outside. so are the Hogwarts students. they have limitations, cause some of them might do something bad. specially when they're in the muggle world. even Harry will just use magic when it's the appropriate time or important thing to do. and Harry is not the most powerful wizard, it's actually Voldemort and Dumbledore both of these characters work so hard to become a great wizard and powerful wizard. and the reason why Harry seem a "powerful" to other wizard and witches is because half of Voldy's soul is in him. and he become famous because of it. but because of his bravery and loyalty having to feel love and can love. it he seem like he's more powerful than Voldemort.

[@johnwendel702]

You should make some "A wizard did it" merch :D

[@babunking7401]

I think i would buy it!

[@crnmjgnthdrrgnl]

10/10 would buy

[@DrewWutsit]

100% would buy

[@SonniDez]

I’d buy it.

[@crowsmoonttv5728]

Where is this shirt or hoodie ???!!!!!

[@pedroscoponi4905]

So basically, Hard Magic goes wrong because the characters don't understand it Soft Magic goes wrong because characters CAN'T understand it

[@christophercrafte]

Pedro Scoponi actual hard magic is very understand able because they can explain it in detail. But soft magic is vague and never explained so you can dispute the power that soft magic has.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Pedro Scoponi That is pretty much it. Hard magic is the same as science or engineering. Casting a spell is the same mixing gunpowder or building a car. While anyone could do it if you give him the materials, the result can be quite dangerous.

[@seigeengine]

Nope. Hard magic systems do not imply anyone can do it (magic).

[@schwarzerritter5724]

seigeengine Well, perhaps not anyone, but a point of view character.

[@aria5614]

Kinda.

[@jackthatmonkey8994]

Installing a program is bad storytelling, because a wizard did it.

[@bencressman6110]

took me a second

[@ahniandfriends123]

Unless that program is a virus. There's no need for wizards when you can just get to the point.

[@Saiavinn]

eyyy~

[@caroswolf286]

lol, good one buddy, smart joke

[@GuillaumeRossolini]

Best comment 🎉

[@medude420024]

"Though, book-Harry acts like he literally only knows 'Expelliarmus'" 3:14 its sneaky, but I saw you. I found your thing and now i wonder how often you actually do that.

[@Manas-co8wl]

Dang it I was too late

[@johnhancock1748]

Thanks. I was struggling to get my screen paused on that lol

[@luigivercotti6410]

It's really stupifying, isn't it?

[@melaniemagdalene1616]

3:15

[@luigivercotti6410]

3:1415

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

6:08 This is the first time someone brings Merlin as an example of some kind of magic. Also that show had a seriusly soft magic system, considering how Merlin could anything but also absolutely nothing depending on what the plot needed.

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

The First Primaris Cato Sicarius You mean the TV series about a young Merlin? The Merlin legend itself is so old and common across so many authors, that just about every type of magic has been used in his stories.

[@lettuce8635]

The First Primaris Cato Sicarius, true. Merlin’s magical rules are non-existent. Say some ancient worlds and wa-la! Merlin can learn what ever he wants and we still have no idea what is HARD magic. What are the rules? Creatures? Races? Artifices? The old religion was never really explained. And the cost of magic is very vague, only at times explained with the cup, unicorn and the opening of the vile. The crystal cave and isle of the blessed is a big fat question mark.

[@Ches19.]

ngl I've been on the hunt for YEARS for a good fic that organizes the magic system in Merlin in a satisfactory way, so that we understand precisely WHY Merlin is "the most powerful sorcerer to ever walk the earth." We got a lot of tell, not show, with that. It was definitely frustrating when the plot decided what Merlin could and couldn't do. I still love the shit out of that show but I definitely have my critiques hahaha. Oh whoop that comment is a year old....oh well. lol. enjoy this incredibly late response

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

@@Ches19. Lol apparently KZbin changed the notification system since I never received that of your comment but did receive that of Adrien Lee reply. Anyway I think no one who likes Merlin did so because of its magic system. I imagine most did because the characters are great hahaha. And I noticed it's a bit of a trend in fantasy TV shows to have chosen one or whatever protagonist suffer defeat at the hands of beings far below their power level. Usually the excuse is that they hold back because they're good, but Merlin certainly didn't have to hold back when challening other mages in 1vs1 duels or some shit. Still it that did make the few times they absolutely kick ass and steam roll over the opposition THAT much more badass. I just wished they adopted the JoJo way to make fights against underpowered foes interesting more often. As in force the overwhelmingly powerful protagonists to figure out a way out of whatever trouble they're not with their muscles but with their wits and knowledge, only to absolutely pummel whatever poor bastard challenged them once what's holding them back is neutralized. Enjoy this late answer to your late comment.

[@theguywiththegoatee7801]

11:00 I feel so accomplished. The story I've been writing has 4 magic systems, divided into Written (used by my Humans), Verbal (Elfs), Ritual (Giants), and Item (Dwarfs). Though, I don't know how well this fits into the context of this video, because my systems are all very solidly in the "Hard" magic category, with firmly defined rules, limitations, and qualifications

[@Excelsior1937]

Sounds cool!

[@nikharagrawal5808]

That sounds do poetically beautiful! Dwarves are often materialistic, so the item thing, giants are portrayed as wild and backward...so ritualistic, and Elves are older so verbal * insert starry eyed *

[@arthurleywin2132]

what's the story's name and where can i find it

[@IronAidan260]

I think a great example of soft magic is the merlin TV show. Magic is used but it’s never explained how it works. Nearly every episode shows a new spell that Merlin almost never uses again, but it always feels like it fits.

[@dimanvoltair993]

I think a way they regulated it was by making the cost discovery. he can't be too blatant with his magic because magicians are hunted

[@samkathryn4825]

My preference depends on the type of story and the purpose of magic in that story. When magic is extremely crucial for combat (like Avatar: The Last Airbender), I prefer hard magic. If magic is only supplemental or is not where most of the tension arises (A Song of Ice and Fire), soft is a great way to make the magic more mysterious.

[@svgarwitch]

I love the quote about how soft magic gives worlds a fantastical feel. That's exactly how I feel!

[@animeotaku22]

3:14 If you caught it, the message says "Though book Harry acts like he literally only knows 'Expelliarmus'" I had to slow down the video and pause it at every frame to catch it because OCD said "You will find out what the message said."

[@dylanhall6711]

Anime Otaku Thank you.

[@Harutson]

thank you. May you always have enough chips for your dip and enough dip for your chips.

[@brunohentschel3023]

That's a very specific, but very kind wish. I like it.

[@Thisisnotthatable]

I really hate when KZbinrs do this, because mobile sucks for frame by frame playback.

[@animeotaku22]

Thisisnotthatable That's what people like me are here for :)

[@raptorus7773]

Tim, you have given me the greatest line I will use from this point on... A Wizard Did It!

[@capitanspoiler7393]

don't forget to add the shot of gandalf, it's crucial

[@hirosmirnov8287]

ehh!.. ehh!.. ehh!.. ehh!..

[@TheTetrapod]

I don't know if I'm missing a joke here, but that's from The Simpsons.

[@HeckleJeckle87]

While The Simpsons popularized/coined the term, the concept is older. The writing trope of "A Wizard Did It" is similar to Deus Ex Machina where a problem that seems to have to solution gets conveniently solved. So "A Wizard Did It" is just a form of "Deus Ex Machina" that uses a character (usually a wizard/mage/etc) to solve a problem.

[@MaskedSongbird]

If you would like to meet the Wizard That Did It, I highly recommend the webcomic, 8-Bit Theater (although, word of warning, it takes a while for him to show up, even though he's a major character).

[@richardlane2363]

"Though book-Harry acts like he literally only knows expelliarmus." Was that 1 frame? Took forever to read. That and stupefy

[@MoshiMinecraft]

Pro tip: bump the speed down to 0.25x and button mash the spacebar

[@lifeontheledgerlines8394]

Tip: , and . keys let you go frame by frame

[@novoeduardoac1248]

There’s a reason Gandalf never explained how his magic work: he’s an angel, he is above in a divine hierarchy. Humans, dwarves, hobbits and most elves can’t possibly understand what he’s doing

[@minecraft15555]

I prefer hard magic, I find it's typically more immersive, as after reading the book, hard magic often feels like something I can go out and do while soft magic's mystery makes it a separating factor from the reader and the character. For example, Avatar has a hard magic system where if you do just the right move in just the right way, magic happens, so I can imagine myself doing such magic.

[@victorklep5261]

Avatar isn't really hard magic, though... What characters can do in Avatar is bound by their own creativity, skill and training, but the fact that they had to undergo training doesn't make it a hard system... The system itself is actually in the middle, and leans relatively soft if you ask me. The limitations of bending are never truly explained and it's not really subject yo strict rules for its usage; anyone born with bending abilities can do just about whatever they can think of with their element if they train enough to do it. It's just that the traditions of the world of Avatar make bending seem more of a hard system because they stick to certain techniques. It's like martial arts in that respect, there is no "right" way of fighting, only certain fields of techniques, all of which have advantages and disadvantages, but if you're creative, you could in theory come up with new techniques with their own advantages and disadvantages. Avatar works similar...

[@riley8385]

Victor Klep Exactly this.

[@robokill387]

" I personally like hard magic systems because they seem less like magic and more like science" I don't understand this perspective, why wouldn't you want magic to be like magic? There is no sense to making magic a science because then it would just be considered part of the natural world and not magical, which to me defeats the aesthetic point of having magic in the first place, you're literally writing it in a way that contradicts itself. A miracle isn't a miracle when it is easily explained and reproducible.

[@hornet6599]

I agree, and I love how hard magic is used in correlation with a character's skill. It also reminds me of the good old days when I tried to waterbend by busting out random dance moves.

[@mistermustacheguy2763]

Avatar isn't magic, Naruto isn't magic, Star Wars Force isn't magic.... Non of these have magic

[@Axios25]

I think the Inheritance Cycle actually has 2 magic systems, one harder and one softer. Most characters who use magic are limited by their strength and their knowledge of the Ancient Language (while they can cast nonverbal spells, it can be affected by stray thoughts and often have disastrous results). Dragons, on the other hand, have virtually limitless magic, but outside of flight and fire they have no real control over it, it comes and goes as it pleases. That's why important plot events are typically solved by Ancient Language magic, and Dragon magic is used primarily for world building and spectacle: creating Brom's tomb, erasing the names of the forsworn, and repairing the star sapphire, for example.

[@AlexKnauth]

+

[@GuiSmith]

James Aldridge I agree. There’s also the fact that there are two ways to get magic, your own unlocked energy and spirits. There’s some drastically different magic involved in the accidental forging of a shade and Eragon’s more wieldy spur-of-the-moment spellcasting. Though the ancient language is still used, spirits are much less benevolent and far more unpredictable in what they do after you summon them. There are clearly witches too, as the whole frogstool gag with Angela points out. She may be able to use the ancient language, but she goes out of her way to prove these unseen witches have little to no power. These witches seem to pull power from herbs and other plants, if you infer, which would be a third (sort of) magic system.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Hey James! Now I think about it, I think you may well be right on Paolini's work having two magic systems. It's been a while since I read them, and I guess since the series focuses so heavily on the ancient language I missed dragon magic. ~ Tim

[@danielhall271]

Not to mention the "wild magics" that have been mentioned throughout the series.

[@zenocanepa172]

Also, the trick Angela used to kill soldiers under Dras-Leona, non verbal spellcasting, spectres (or whatever they're called in English) are examples of soft magic. I would say that most good fantasy have a mix of the two kinds. Most of the (good) exceptions are fighting stories (FMA, HxH)

[@jimometry]

Both have the beneficial impact in a fantastical story. Hard is strict, rule sticky, consequential with specific outcomes.. Soft is whimsical, tertiary, something someone can do to cook. Both are awesome.. perhaps the best system is a combination of the two.. Cooking your breakfast but ruining the pan... Saving the princess but realizing she's the villain. Finding a magic sword only to reveal that it's about to destroy everything you ever longed for.

[@midnightharvest3065]

That's true, you can expand the soft magic with hard rules. It usually depends on what kind of magic it is also, like having a water mage only using water then all of a sudden they can shoot fire balls doesn't make sense. Now if your water mage can only use water magic but are capable of using different aspects of water like blood, sweat, steam, and potentially mud, slime, or plants does work within both systems

[@Trekkie46]

Ever consider making a video about technology as a magic system? There's several ways to consider that.

[@lonestarr1490]

Please stop giving away my story ideas. Thank you.

[@Trekkie46]

@@lonestarr1490 10 months ago says it was more my idea... Just saying....

[@bekahcarroll7880]

That's Batman.

[@Excelsior1937]

If you’ve got a futuristic world where there’s more advanced technology than what we’ve got/might ever get, than, from my pov, technology fills the same narrative structural role as magic. I say that because as long as technology works as something that gives your characters powers that don’t exist in reality, it’s the same thing as magic just with a different aesthetic. Even if it’s based off of existing science but uses that as a jumping off point for more fantastical stuff, this still applies. Alchemy from FMA isn’t not-magic just because it’s based off of the law of conservation of mass/law of equivalent exchange, for instance. For this reason, I use the same guidelines mentioned here and in other videos about magic systems for my futuristic technology.

[@hanaomer4940]

I'm so glad that the Gandolf head bob made it into this video.

[@finnvost9349]

A WIZARD DID IT

[@keeperscriptstwitcharchive7917]

Hard magic is my style. It’s a lot more interesting to me when the characters who use magic feel like they had to work and struggle to reach where they are with their magic and abilities, and it makes everything they do with it feel a lot more intense and dramatic. Soft systems are also interesting though, since they’re more whimsical and you can’t get that same sense of wonderment form hard magic. Dresden Files has one of my favourite magic systems, where the human mages have hard magic that you can connect with and understand most of the time with enough looking into it, but there are also other creatures and beings who use magic that’s beyond what any human could do and has this fantastical and other worldly powerful feel to it that’s amazing and terrifying

[@baragent]

Another good example of multiple magic systems is his Codex Alera series, with human furycrafting, the Canim ritualist system, whatever it is the Marat do/are, and whatever it is that the People of the Sun used to do before they were made extinct.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Dustin Voss Or Star Trek. Warp drive, transporters and phasers are hard magic and part of the same magic system. But then there are species with weird powers, like the Q.

[@bananian]

WildFire Tbf, soft magic tend to not be central to the plot and trivial.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

bananian For example? Also, who is Tbf?

[@bananian]

Schwarzer Ritter To be fair Lotr Gandalf does some magic here and there but the story isn't about him so it doesn't really matter what exactly he can do.

[@cass6020]

I prefer the middle ground stuff like Harry Potter or the magic in the Gone series by Michael Grant. Having a general cap and explanations as to how the limits and costs work is cool, but the softness lends itself to mystery and speculation on the source and potential uses/ways to interact with it

[@AnkanBob]

Or just do the naruto thing where you make a hard magic system and ignore the system for most of the story

[@firdausgaara2006]

Well, most anime don't really respect their magic system. Although FMA really makes a good hard magic system in anime. It's a rare sight to see in anime.

[@Reverse_Peak]

@@firdausgaara2006 I think there’s plenty of anime that respects their magic system if they have one

[@jasonmendoza2044]

What do you mean? I’ve only seen the original and not Shippuden

[@or9422]

@@jasonmendoza2044 Yeah, well, the stuff they're talking about mostly happens in Shippuden.

[@justsomerandomweeb4243]

Or do the dragon ball way to shift the magic system entirely

[@magiv4205]

Maybe I'm biased because I've grown up with it, but I'm a sucker for soft magic systems. I adore the sense of mystery. The feeling that humans are but a small part in the universe and that much bigger and more mysterious forces are at play is intriguing for every story (I say that even though I'm not religious at all). I also love how it often creates a very melancholic atmosphere, case and point ASoIaF/GoT and LotR, where magic has slowly been lost to time and with its disappearance, the wonders and greatness of the ancient world have faded into hard, gritty reality. It gives so much depth to a world in my opinion, even though it can be quite depressing at times. To me it also represents the loss of purity and innocence and the challenges of growing up and simply being human.

[@shadowspider9]

Magi V hard magic can have that to though. Avatar is great example. While the elements are based on hard and defined magic the avatar himself is a vessel for a powerful and almost cosmic force and his/her entire point is to maintain cosmic balance between the human and spirit world.

[@SantosAl]

shadowspider9 and then Korra arrived :P

[@seigeengine]

Personally, I love when there's a hard magic system which is just our way of making sense of something a lot squishier underneath.... where the system both enables predictability, and limits us to the confines of the system and how it goes about manifesting magic.

[@ixis]

I also like soft magic systems, and the popularity of fantasy series shows that most people agree with what we like Magi V. Hard magic can be very interesting, but usually the stories wind up being mostly about the magic and not really about the characters. Hard magic is positioned as an allegory for technology as power, so you wind up only being able to tell stories about man's nature with technology. Even Avatar, an intensely character focused story, is about how bending/spirits/magic creates characters who have certain beliefs and philosophical arguments about magic. Soft magic stories tend to be 100% about characters and the inclusion of magic is only an impetus for certain actions. Frodo's quest to destroy the One Ring is predicated on the random fact that only the fires of Mt. Doom can destroy it, but there are no lingering philosophical arguments about the nature of these rules in regards to sociology in Middle Earth. Instead it's a story about greed, sacrifice and hope. I'd add a fourth rule to Sanderson's rules of magic (as a huge fan of FMA and The Last Empire, let it be known I don't discourage hard magic at all): the harder a magic system you create, the more the story will be about magic. Fantastic stories with magical elements that last the test of time are always soft magic systems. Time will tell if a hard magic story will last a century or more, but I wouldn't let anyone's opinions on soft magic being the lesser get you down. Literally all of human history shows that soft magic is beloved across time, space and culture.

[@seigeengine]

Soft magic stories are no less about man's nature. The magic may not serve as facilitating allegory about technology, although it often does, but the non-magical usually does anyway. You don't even manage to not contradict yourself by mentioning Avatar, where you basically immediately refute your own argument, and then show your reading what you want into narratives by suggesting LotR is just a story about greed, sacrifice, and hope, as if that's all the story contained, or as if Avatar containing more than that somehow makes it fundamentally different. Hell, the LotR absolutely has things to say about man's nature, the progress of technology, and contrasting beliefs and philosophies. I'd say that all stories are about magic, and all stories are about philosophy, and all stories are about the nature of man, and our progress with technology. More importantly, I'd say you started with your conclusion, rambled in a vaguely coherent but meaningless way for a while, and then repeated yourself as if you had made some kind of valid supporting argument in the middle, when you really didn't. Of course hard magic doesn't last as well: hard magic is about details, and details do not stand the test of time as well as emotions, or symbols, or vague morals. Of course, those don't stand the test of time much better. Emotions are misconstrued, symbols lose meaning and are redefined, morals get shifted to fit the world the story is told in.

[@Longlius]

I personally enjoyed the way the Nasuverse handles this. Magic is divided into two separate systems - magecraft (hard magic) with very strict limitations and true magic (soft magic) that is on the level of miracles. Most modern magicians can only use the former (and a mage is usually limited to a very specific subset of magecraft due to their origin and bloodline) but a few are capable of using true magic under very special circumstances. What keeps the reader guessing is when magecraft will suddenly become true magic.

[@averyn4788]

I much prefer a hard magic system because it outlines a strong structure for both the story and the capabilities of the magical characters. I’m currently writing a novel with a relatively strict hard magic system. Although not everything draws from the same equivalence. Some people gain power in exchange for time from their lifespan. Other use powerful gems or artifacts to conjure magic. Some use the power of a god or diety, only because they praise that god or give it gifts or sacrifice. And of course if magic is used unfairly, a creature or person can be killed, turned into a terrible friend, or maybe just locked in the abyss for many years.

[@leeman27534]

@Stirgid Lanathiel nah, it can be hard, just you can pull out shit beyond your own capabilities with a stronger sacrifice, like a magic relic being destroyed or a permanent cost being paid, rather than like eragon's where if you go over your limit, you just die. hell, there's several hard magic systems like this anyway. the only soft part is, there's not seemingly just 'one' magic system at work, hence "not everything draws from the same equivalence". maybe a standard mage has mp, if they overdraw, they're getting hit with some backlash, whereas if someone uses powerful entities for their source, maybe they can overuse their current standing with their entity, but they're cut off until they make reparations or something. gods and the possible 'fairness' idea might be a tad soft, of course, but maybe it's hard, just not quite understood by the characters, or even the author atm.

[@leeman27534]

@Stirgid Lanathiel my point was more, they didn't even mention possible rules. and really, "you can overdraft but there's a cost" IS a rule, so it can entirely fit into a hard system (matter of fact, there's a flash game called tower of the archmage i like, it's got spell crafting and a mana system called flux. it being a game where you can even make magic, clearly it's a hard system, but you can go over your flux capacity, but it'll do random shit, if not outright kill youif the flux is too high). different forms of magic might have different rules and costs: someone who's basically using a god of healing's blessings might be able to do healing magic with less of a cost than say, a mage that's not got a talent and training for healing magic. so, they could entirely have rules, different types of magic doesn't disallow that.

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

same

[@gerbilmanjeremy]

in the tolkien books the five istari are actually closer to hard magic users. because they are technically lower godly beings (miair(Similar to angels)) so can't use their magic to harm/help sauron because the higher gods (valar)(greek-like gods)) said so though all of them fail this part of the mission(yes even Gandalf). so even though they never tell anyone but the elves they have a hard magic system

[@silvioe.627]

Jeremy Powell sorry to be late but Gandalf didn’t fail. That’s why he was the only known istari that returned to Aman.

[@dragoneyecreations261]

I'm pretty late, but I kind of disagree with this. The scale of hard to soft magic doesn't pertain to the narrative itself, it's determined by the system itself. Take Fullmetal Alchemist for example. It's main plot and plenty of plot threads, while centered around Alchemy, which is a very hard magic system, is based upon the idea of breaking the rules of said hard system (i.e. bringing someone back from the dead, gaining immortality, becoming God). While we know a particular limitation (i.e. the Valar not letting the Istari get involved directly), it doesn't make it more hard in a significant way. All we know about the magic of the Istari is that it is a divine power, and its power set is not too defined, hence it's still soft magic.

[@julianiemeyer1010]

Thanks for putting this stuff into words. My vote is for hard magic systems. although I think this is because I really enjoy complicated and well thought out worlds and I have unfortunately ran into far more mediocre soft magic worlds than I have hard ones. A lot of the draw to the genre (for me) is the world building, and often a hard system means that the author has more guidelines to base their world on.

[@nidohime6233]

Do Pokémon have both? Hard magic: typing, moves, level, natures, abilities... Soft magic: anything about how some Pokémon can time travel, read minds, create continents/seas... even the whole universe.

[@Manas-co8wl]

Most magic systems are in between

[@tldoesntlikebread]

I don't understnad how that's soft magic while the former is hard magic.

[@ferociousmaliciousghost]

All of it is soft. We don't know the limit to a pokemon's power.

[@nidohime6233]

@@ferociousmaliciousghost Never saw a stat chart?

[@ferociousmaliciousghost]

@@nidohime6233 I mean like how powerful are pokemon really. Take for an instant Magmar, Mr. Mime, and Magikarp. Magmar's entry states its body is 2,200 degrees F which is insane. Mr. Mime has been said to freeze air molecules and Magikarp is weirdly powerful. Just read the entry for black and white. "A Magikarp living for many years can leap a mountain using Splash. The move remains useless, though." Leap over a mountain with a splash? How is it useless? Also, not to mention the moves that can destroy most of the world.

[@BrainScratchComms]

Response to blink-and-you'll-miss it subliminal statement "book-Harry acts like he literally only knows 'Expelliarmus.'" Well, not really. He uses Stupefy quite generously in combat as well and is shown to be competent at a number of non-combat-orientated spells in many situations, but since Harry is neither vindictive (which he would need to be to get creative with body-destruction effects like 'Sectumsempra'), inclined to kill (which many other spells would accomplish in one form or another anyway), or an advanced wizard (which is where on-the-fly statue animation spells and conjure-big-old-objects-out-of-nothing comes in), his combat style focused on disarming and stunning for most of the books, bread-and-butter spells yes, but there's not a whole lot of reason to go beyond that if you're just trying to put an enemy down quickly. But there is a reason he's never shown as capable of besting the likes of Snape or Voldemort in a straight fight. Another "soft magic with rules" example related to the Potter story actually comes from the film Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. Since the Summoning Charm had been shown to have difficulty summoning living creatures in previous stories, Newt Scamander got around this to bring his niffler back to him by instead summoning a bunch of jewelry that the niffler had just stuffed into its pouch, dragging the niffler along for the ride through the air. The odd thing about the rules and limitations of Potterverse magic though is that it's expressed most clearly through internal consistency rather than explanation, so a lot of people missed the fact that this was what Newt Scamander did and asked the question, "why didn't he just summon the niffler to begin with?" Part of that might have been lack of book knowledge, though (the Potter FILMS weren't half as good at this). - Lewis

[@HelloFutureMe]

Great points! Though, that was just a joke. He uses it so often that even the Death Eaters recognised 'expelliarmus' as Harry's signature spell. Enough so that they identified him out of seven in the Battle of Seven Potters. ~ Tim

[@harrisont2004]

I think Voldermort’s even more funny. In that six battle against dumbledore, dumbledore uses ingenuity and stuff and voldermorts just like um... AVADAKADAVRA!! While I agree the evil guy would always use the killing spell, maybe a limit or something could have changed that.

[@ignitetheinferno1858]

Harrison T it partly comes down to Rowling being rather uninventive when it came to writing combat with magic. Perhaps the singularly unique battle in the series was The Department of Mysteries where not only did you have spells being cast,but also the magical objects could also play a role. Such as the brains and the time bottle that the Death Eaters head gets stuck in.

[@GrimMeowning]

Hard and soft magic is like Wizard and Sorcerer in D&D. One is controlling raw forces without understanding them and can have a recoil, while others are perfectly learning what, how and why works like it works. So even tho they are both using same powers - they are using them in different ways, which can even born a conflict, about hard or soft usage of same magic source.

[@Fralexion]

I like both, but I have to admit soft magic systems do a better job of actually feeling... well, _magical._ There's a reason stage magicians are so adamant about hiding how their tricks are done. Traditionally, magic exists to defy understanding and expectation. It's a powerful way to represent the aspects of our lives that we have little controlover, but nonetheless we all must cope with best we can. We don't _like_ our lives to be unpredictable, we _want_ to be in full control, but the truth is that our lives will never 100% belong to us. Just as horror stories let us practice feeling scared, fairy tales are a way to practice being clueless. It IS fun reading stories where magic has been refined down to a science, but at that point it's not really _fantastical_ anymore, is it? It's... well, a fictional science. Its original narrative purpose doesn't work unless you find a new way to implement it. Like, in Fullmetal Alchemist, even though the protagonists have a very strong understanding of their magic system, you still have that classic fantasy struggle because they are trying to accomplish something that, _by their own understanding,_ is impossible. Lots of alchemy is understood and they're facing the uncertainties beyond that field's boundaries. I don't think it's _bad_ when stories favor hard magic, or vice versa. They're just trying to accomplish different things, narratively speaking, so comparing them feels kind of weird.

[@christophersavignon4191]

Magicians don't reveal their tricks because they don't really do what they seem to do. No magician has ever cut a lady in half with a gaudy saw. In the stories though, magic is a real thing. Even if you know the rules, a wizard throwing fireballs is a wizard throwing fireballs. If a magician could actually make elephants disappear or conjure rabbits from a hat, would it really be less wondrous just because you know that there's a magic portal in the hat connected to a cage of rabbits? Illusions exist to defy understanding, but magic exists to defy the limits of the mundane.

[@frogwitch8598]

I was thinking the same thing! I even decided that im going to use a mostly soft magic system for a comic im tryin to plan. Like, you can TRY and control and ask the earth to help you, but it won't always respond. However, if you mix these flowers on a half moon and maybe do a silly jig then it will create a consistent desired effect.

[@MrNoobomnenie]

The main problem with the hard magic systems is: "Any sufficiently hard magic is indistinguishable from technology".

[@stuttters]

@@AnHeC I mostly agree, but I don't think soft are boring. Hard magic is more fun and engrossing though

[@grahamkristensen9301]

I think it'd be fun to write a story in a world with soft magic from the perspective of, for lack of a better term, a "magic scientist", someone trying to discover if there is a hard system hidden beneath the mystery.

[@Dachusblot]

Personally I like magic systems that fall somewhere in between "hard" and "soft," where there are clear rules and limitations, but there's also a level of unpredictability. Kinda like, "Okay, we know that X, Y and Z works, but we don't really know /why/," and that leaves it open for unexpected developments. One example I could think of is the "Myst" series of games & novels, where the characters travel to different worlds by describing those worlds in magic books. The series goes into great detail about the process of creating the books, and it's all very scientific, almost like programming. The characters have to follow the rules very carefully, or else the results could be disastrous. But at the same time, it's clear that no one completely understands the true nature of how these books work or how they influence the various worlds, and so sometimes the results are unexpected even when the characters think they're doing everything right. And every now and then you get characters who seem to break the rules, and yet still manage to create working books somehow. But it doesn't seem like a plot contrivance when that happens in the story; it's more like doing a science experiment and coming up with an unexpected result. It's pretty cool, and I can't really think of any other stories with a magic system quite like it. Also, DISCWORLD FTW. I wish more Americans knew about the Discworld books. They're the best. :-)

[@meghanmitchell6948]

Dachusblot if you like a mix of the two systems you'd probably enjoy the circle of magic series by Tamora Pierce. It does a good job with that and it's one of my favorites.

[@cmck362]

I love discworld. I actually didn't know it wasn't well known here. I'm not really a fan of the magic parts of the series though. Sam Vimes steals the show and any book without him feels less good.

[@shockingjustice3884]

Dachusblot 4

[@spartacus17.]

Dachusblot So, sorta you understand the system while the limits are still unknown?

[@theramendutchman]

They are.

[@skullsquad900]

Star vs The Forces of Evil, has done an Amazing job at creating a Soft Magic System. It really gives off that Wonderous Amazment you had as a child, while also showing the Terrifying Darkness that it can be used for.

[@jascrandom9855]

Hard Magic= Magic as Science. Soft Magic= Magic derived by Gods with their own agendas.

[@9u1n]

Thanks. I was just wondering how paladins fit into the hard/soft continuum.

[@allenthepotato]

@@9u1n technically sometimes paladins use hard magic too since some perspectives view gods as limited in power

[@9u1n]

@@allenthepotato thanks!

[@ceilingsintheireyes6288]

Jasc Random thanks I was trying to think of a simple way of getting my head round what these long videos are trying to get at

[@ahniandfriends123]

So the magic found in Lovecraft's stories are soft magic.

[@LordEpos]

I would highly recommend *Sufficiently Advanced Magic* if you're looking for a relatively hard magic system that still has a sense of mysticism.

[@Carewolf]

It borrows a lot from "Name of The Wind" of the Kingkiller Chronicles, not that, that is a bad thing, I just find it hard to praise it too much. Also it is weird to read a good book with in-universe Dungeon Crawling and D&D style rules.

[@aegonii8471]

Carewolf Is name of the wind a good book?

[@Carewolf]

It is a very good book. Unfortunately it is part of an unfinished trilogy

[@seigeengine]

Name of the Wind is a VERY good book, as is it's sequel A Wise Man's Fear. They are definitely weird books though. My best real comparison is Harry Potter, but not for kids, and more traditionally fantasy. That's not the best description, but it's close enough. There are a great deal of similarities.

[@aegonii8471]

seigeengine I’ve read the Game of Thrones books, do you think Name of the Wind is as good or even better than them?

[@Dnd-Versatility]

please do a colabe with overly sarcastic preductions!!!

[@killtheo8894]

OMG yes

[@HelloFutureMe]

I wish! ~ Tim

[@Dnd-Versatility]

Hello Future Me you got a channel with almost 100k subs. It's time to stop wishing and start dreaming (slight attempt at encouragment)

[@EJAG_art]

Yis gud idea 👀

[@nolanbayle6159]

That would be better the journey to west part 4.

[@drummerboy9128]

I honestly prefer hard magic because I can see and know how the system works and understand why the character did magical thing x instead of magical thing y. Of course this isn’t always the case and a good writer is usually needed.

[@monaelisa8713]

9:15 "pretty much Supernatural in a nutshell" It's so true though 😂

[@zairaner1489]

The mathmatician inside me really wants to call soft magic systems where individuals or certin objects have very strictly defined magic powers "locally hard magic systems"

[@seigeengine]

And the twelve year old in me wants to make jokes about being locally hard.

[@drm3ssivador]

You sir, have made my day. Thank you for this private joke.

[@Newtonissac6]

The question is, does their exist a unique extension of the soft magic to make it a hard magic in a given space (fantasy world)? I see hard magic systems as compact systems. They have a sense of "closedness" and "boundedness" to them.

[@myentropy4163]

Jojo's Bizarre adventure basically has that. They have 'stands' which is basically a manifestation of the soul and the stand's powers can vary wildly but each and every individual stand is limited to their own personal power set.

[@TAP7a]

So what you're saying is that hard magic is just soft magic with a flat metric of magic?

[@HellsMirror]

I like harder magic systems with a few soft points, so you have a good understanding of what most of the characters are capable of but that sometimes there are opening up new possibilities. I actually think that a mix of both is kind of the most interesting

[@moradan81]

"...even though a wizard did do it, it doesn't feel like 'a wizard did it'". Man you are a genius. Going to hit the thumbs up right now. Oh, wait, I did it already when you said "mother in law". Gees.

[@Hyurno]

Would Steven Universe be considered soft magic mostly?

[@superbeltman6197]

I think it's twards the middle as individual gems abilities are reasonably understood (I only watched S1 so I may have no idea what your talking about)

[@matpikachu]

Hmm...I think so. It's kind of like Harry Potter where you are as powerful as how much knowledge you know or experience you gain. It's also like Lord of the Rings where there's multiple magic systems.

[@ninasimpson6639]

I don't think so. A lot of the rules are just not told before hand ie what happened when a gem crack, how are they made, the purpose of a gem ect.

[@ironforged2329]

No, I believe it's hard

[@purpleberry3564]

I think it's more in the middle they didn't really explain everything but they explain some and it has rules to it

[@fionnaskyborn]

Your mother in-law though 😂😂😂 This was amazing! Honestly, I prefer hard magic systems, because they do limit things you can/can't do, but they also offer much more details, mysteries and, well, MAGIC! 🌌✨🌟 Bye, Tim! See you in the future, and hopefully with an HTTYD season 6 video, writer analyzes and Mishka! 💖

[@gnhpinn]

This series is absolutely amazing. I’m an author and my current work has a huge base in magic, however I’ve really been struggling to work out how that magic works. This series has really been helping me to get a grip on a system that used to be kinda confusing to me despite the fact that I’m the one that created it.

[@HelloFutureMe]

Really happy to hear it helped you somewhat! Magic systems can be hard to design, so it's totally understandable. ~ Tim

[@gaterockin]

I'm an author too.

[@brendanbabin6315]

And can't we technically start a story's system "Soft" then move into a more definite and "Hard" system.

[@jchinckley]

Why not? In fact, that is exactly what an author does in every hard magic story I've seen. Somebody does magic with some interesting things going with it, but we don't understand at first. As time goes on and the system becomes more defined by its usage in the story it evolves into a hard magic that we can begin to predict. But if you mean, "we can't explain the magic system as soft, then move it to hard," then maybe. Because even that would depend on the PoV of the characters the story is told from. To non magic-users nearly all magic, hard and soft, will be perceived as "soft" as defined for us because they don't understand it.

[@superbeltman6197]

Due to this priceiple any magic system could be harder than the public knows

[@chrisguo3222]

@@jchinckley An interesting idea would a magic using protagonist researching their own abilities and thereby making the magic system harder as the protagonist and the reader understand more, and also represent power progression in the form of knowing and pushing limits, and avoiding risks

[@squibble311]

you can

[@ikazuchioni]

Not only are you well versed, you also know how to present your thesis very well. Add to that your on point humor makes watching you not only educational but truly entertaining to boot. And also, "A WIZARD DID IT!"

[@FITZFACTOR]

Great video. It's really important when writing to remember that Soft magic does not mean no rules. Going against, or simply expanding what you've previously written can feel like "a wizard did it" really easily. The new Star Wars films are decent examples of this. While Star Wars is pretty vague in terms of what exactly the force can do, or how powerful it can be, we have some notion that it requires training and can typically only do so much. I think this is a lot of people's problem with Rey. It's not that the Star Wars universe doesn't TECHNICALLY allow her to do what she's done, it's more that many people feel like she hasn't earned it. Unfortunately since it's so soft you can't go off anything other than your feelings and your understanding of what the previous films established, which is why it's so divisive.

[@sirmanmcdude508]

Possibly a hard magic system that is still not fully understood by anyone other than the level 99 wizards so it ends up feeling like a soft magic system. Also, I like doing this because it just begs for the lines "Well how does it work?" "How should I know, it's fucking magic"

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

*Level 99 wizards with big weird hats. Rember that the rank and/or importance of someone is based on how big and strange their hats are. 1d4chan.org/wiki/Hats

[@robinvik1]

Check out the second apocalypse series (starting with the prince of nothing trilogy). Basically just one character in the book can explain how it works exactly, but there are very good reasons for everything in the books, not just the magic part. Questions like: If the wizards are so powerful why haven't they taken over the world? Why do the bad guys want to cause the apocalypse? Etc, all have very rational answers to them.

[@StarPrismatic]

I'm attempting write a fantasy novel and your videos have helped me IMMENSELY. Seriously, I can't thank you enough.

[@hakeemthedreamk]

I've seen this video over the years and I'm finally writing my own novel, this has been a great help! Thanks Tim!

[@VenPen1]

*Last time I was this early, Sirius was still alive*

[@nothingnothingaswell6367]

Ven Pen too soon

[@azthas5461]

;-;

[@magiv4205]

Ven Pen YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU MONSTER

[@averyneil5813]

NOOOOOOOOO WHY DID YOU FELL THE NEED TO DO THAT. I was happy geeking out!

[@Victoria-ch6et]

Ven Pen 😢😢😭🤧

[@PaganScholar]

Soft Magic for the win! It's more believable in that it's difficult to understand, just like life. A coincidence could be soft magic. Hard magic requires a total suspension of disbelief. Soft magic can get under your skin and make you second guess yourself. I'd say it's like the difference between a mystical experience and a miraculous experience.

[@hereshotrod3873]

I prefer hard magic.

[@danilooliveira6580]

I feel like people that like Hard Magic is the same people that loves to delve into science books and novels and find wounder in learning how things work, because some Hard Magic are, in a way, a type of science. while people that like the magic to stay soft are the same people that see someone explaining a magic trick and lose interest because he liked to believe that it was mystical and fantastical (while the Hard Magic guy is there fascinated with the technical and skill aspect of the trick). I'm not saying that soft magic is bad, I also love it when done right, but I like it more because it makes the world feels bigger and that there is more beyond the simple understanding of magic I was taught, it makes feels like there is a lot more to discover beyond what is in front of me. but I still prefer when there are rules (even if the powers can be almost infinite and godlike, they can still have rules), but that the rules are just beyond the reach of my knowledge.

[@superbeltman6197]

How I see it Soft Magic makes the world much more grand and well..magical but Hard magic is more immersive and let's you think of solutions before the characters do

[@saaral]

thanks so much for creating this series!! it cleared so many thoughts i've had about writing my own magical world. im so out of my comfort zone writing fantasy and this is giving me hope

[@brenine3104]

"Soft magic stories tend to want to indicate that men are small, small parts of the eternal and mystical workings of the universe." * _Laughs in _*_Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood_* *

[@fernandorivera4719]

But fullmetal Alchemist is not soft magic, even though it has the theme.

[@gabbonoo]

@@fernandorivera4719 youre right. it's pseudo scientific(very *hard magic system*). they have explanations on where the energy comes from, how it acts, the information laws, and the changing laws of macro and micro equivalents

[@keloid123]

@@fernandorivera4719 lead to gold. Say it with me Supernova

[@machochocolate7679]

@@fernandorivera4719 his point is that full metal alchemist indicates the same thing, particularly darkly, while being a hard system... its called context

[@tldoesntlikebread]

@@fernandorivera4719 He's not saying it's soft magic, he's saying it's like it indicates that men are small, small parts of the eternal and mystical workings of the universe (y'know despite not being soft magic).

[@KikiYushima]

I'm definitely someone who prefers hard magic systems as a fantasy writer. I like things to be rather predictable and logical in a fantastic world. My systems do tend to have a bit of a splash of soft, though. I tend to separate into elements since I find that framework to be the easiest to work with, but I still tend to have the magic itself be more or less a sentient force, thereby leaving some level of unpredictability in it. You always know the general effects that having magic will use (using Moon elemental will always result in defense) but if you've done something to piss off the force itself, it may very well backfire and cause an extremely unpredicted effect, though still within the prescribed perimeters.

[@relicking9207]

I prefer hard magic systems, because I like to know what is going on.

[@Carewolf]

Well, it is more likely the author won't cheat and get lazy with hard magic. If the author puts the same effort into a soft magic based story and universe I have no problem with it (hello "A Song of Ice & Fire").

[@livedandletdie]

Carewolf, while I do agree that A Song of Ice & Fire is a good story, the magic isn't really the center point of the story which makes it able to get away with a soft magic system. Sure there is a lot of magic but it's not clearly defined at all which makes it into a poor magic system. Soft magic systems is the bane of good stories.

[@felipestrugo5077]

I just LOVED "The Name od the Wind" and didn't know why until you pointed out how it uses both soft and hard magic. This videos you make help a ton and I'm considering to read Sanderson's work on writing. I sincerely love your videos. Can't wait till next one!

[@Braintree0173]

I just found your channel through part 1 of this series, and you've earned yourself a subscription. Something I really like is the story Worm, which uses hard sci-fi, but it looks like soft sci-fi from the point of view character, at least for the first while. The characters are using powers with strictly defined rules, but the characters begin without any real clear understanding of those limitations, allowing it to be unpredictable to the reader while still conforming to a set of rules.

[@katakesh8566]

I love your theory videos but I'm really loving these video essays. And I generally love hard magic systems, or a mix but leaning move toward hard, like Naruto and Avatar While Yu Yu Hakusho and RWBY are my kind of soft magic

[@jonahbardwell551]

The_Lost_Son RWBY's kind of a mix. Semblances and aura are more on the hard side with generally defined rules, thestuff the show actually calls magic that they're starting to introduce is much softer.

[@riley8385]

You are a bit confussed friend. Naruto and Avatat don't have hard systems, they're in the middle, leaning more to the soft side (especially Naruto).

[@erictat1346]

The_Lost_Son if you like hard magic systems, check out Hunter x Hunter. Their Nen system is thoroughly explained yet you will still be entertained by their creativity. On the side note, it's also written by the same mangaka as Yu Yu Hakusho.

[@woutert114]

Hunter x Hunter magic doesn't have a defined limit and can be anything though. Each power is governed by some general rules like Restriction and Vow but aside from that, I'd say it's pretty soft. It's a bit of a hybrid in my opinion, which is why I would really like a separate video on that system (and also because the system in my books is pretty similar)

[@erictat1346]

woutert114 You're right, Hunter x Hunter doesn't have a defined limit, but it can't be anything. Each person falls into a category and can only use the full extent of their respective category, while being moderately capable of neighboring categories and is severely weaker attempting to use anything beyond that, that's pretty restrictive and definitive. Just with that information you're able to determine what a person is generally capable of in terms of fighting/magic style. What they do within those categories are entirely up to them, but their nen abilities still abide by those laws. Hard and soft magic is a spectrum, much like good and evil, so of course there will be soft features within the system, but in this case, Hunter x Hunter leans more towards hard magic than soft. The unpredictably from the system relies on the wit and experience of the character to forge or utilize their abilities properly and creatively.

[@BaoShenwang]

While I enjoy *reading* both hard and soft magic systems (my two favourite fantasy series are LotR and Wheel of Time, so we've basically got both ends of the spectrum covered there), over the years when it comes to my writing I've found myself favouring soft magic more and more. I love the mystical quality, the fact that you can tie this up so easily with huge, cosmic forces, and the fact that it makes magic feel like something fundamentally different from the physical universe. For which reasons, I'd also likely be big on the unpredictability angle.

[@bryanmcclure2220]

Wheel of time has a soft Magic system that slowly becomes a soft/hard hybrid system as the book progresses

[@vaesch4283]

Thank you so much for this! Incredibly helpful for my own soft-magic worldbuilding, both in elaborating on it and giving me confidence!

[@bloodrastablade1798]

Many thanks! I appreciate all the hard work in making these videos. I have learned and excelled greatly in my writing.

[@o.w.7679]

You mentionned the Black Company !!!!! Finally someone talks about it ! You, my gentleman, are a wonderful human being !

[@RowanAvery1375]

Dude, these videos are really cool, they have definitely made me think more about the magic systems I use in my writings. (I write action fantasy stuff as a hobby.) I enjoy both soft and hard magic, and employ many kinds of magic in different writings- it just depends on the character.

[@vinirick872]

do you still write?

[@analyzationm]

Hey I never thought about the serial Merlin having a soft magic system until you showed the scene with Arthur

[@Kindrick]

I've thought about it and I think technology could be considered a magic system, especially if there's future tech or alien tech involved.

[@jchinckley]

The maxim is: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~ Arthur C. Clarke

[@jacksonquinn1472]

Yeah no. It’s a contradiction.

[@superbeltman6197]

Asgaurdian Tech/Magic is an example of this

[@returneefromthemoon]

science magic mixture then.

[@Midnight-7411]

All hail lord MISHKA may he forever more be beautiful and divine

[@LawnPygmy]

I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, so I'll post it anyway. What I think is the most important part of any magic system in fiction is not predictability, limits, tension, or otherwise; it's Focus, Interaction, and Audience. Focus means who is telling the story. Interaction means how many people are using magic against other magical things. Audience, perhaps the most important bit, is who magic's story is being told *to*. Focus basically boils down to who are the main characters and how magical are they. In the Hobbit, the dwarves and Bilbo were not magic-users. To them, magic was strange and miraculous. It needed to be to wow them with its awesome might and its dubious providence. They were our surrogates when it came to magic. In FMA, however, the focus characters were nearly all magic users. Everyone had to know exactly how magic worked, because the conflict largely revolved around them or things they were involved with. Magic could not be mysterious because of this. This feeds into Interaction. Basically, this means how many times magic has to interact with the story. The more often it's used, the more it needs to be explained. The less it's used, the more it's allowed to keep its mouth shut and remain mysterious. With Gandalf, he didn't have to explain shit because he was one of the very few magic people in the story, and he rarely interacted with them magically. Going back to Focus, he was not the main character; the hobbits were, and their interactions with magic were largely fearful and awestruck, viewing it as the miracle of plot it was in that story. Elric, however, had no such luck. Everyone could conceivably do what he did, and he was surrounded by people who were not only capable of the same feats as him but were at least as skilled as he was. His magic interacted with the plot and other characters so often it required explanation or else seem more like YGO's first season. It needed structure for the audience. This last, Audience, means not just the reader but the characters. This goes beyond magic and into the very bones of the story. Gandalf was showing magic to a distinctly non-magical audience. The hobbits and dwarves and men he surrounded himself with had little idea of what he could do (and what magic in their world could do), and they largely didn't need to because they didn't interact with it all that often. As said above, Gandalf was not the focus. He was playing to a muggle audience to wow them and convince the reader and characters of bygone splendor on the cusp of extinction. The same was true of the Elves in those stories. In FMA, the audience is magical. Each of the other characters knows of magic or knows how it works or can do it themselves. It explains itself to the Audience, because that is the kind of story it's telling to both the readers and other characters. It's sort of like looking at a script: those who can do magic have read their lines and have to make you believe. Those who haven't are left to sit back and enjoy the show. Now we come to Harry Potter. He was a magical character telling magical stories to magical readers, but his power came from learning things. Magic was ill-defined, but it was believable that he could do things because we were shown him learning how to do them. He interacted with magic often, but only to the limits of what he knew of it. His audience was learning magic alongside him, also. So, this rant written at the buttcrack of dawn over... I hope you understand my views on the subject. Thank you for reading.

[@LawnPygmy]

Aaaaaand I wrote this before watching the full video, and reiterated some of the major points in it while adding few of my own. :V whoops

[@mikhaela1438]

That’s very well done. I learned a lot just by reading it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[@avosmash2121]

This actually helps me a lot with sorting my own ideas....I think with my lore, I have a middle of the spectrum but mostly soft magic system, that is similar to Harry Potter or Discworld....it has magic as a commonly known of thing, but not a commonly DONE thing by everyone in mundane life,just exotic and dangerous enough to be mysterious and a threat, but not so alien and rare it is seen as a cosmic outside force of unpredictability -...except with fae magic....'regular' mage drawn magic, is more akin to computer hacking. We are not usually able to hack government or corporate databases, but it is technically possible TO DO SO if a skilled enough person dedicates the time to learn, or, that book full private computer password codes accidentally falls out of the sky into the wrong, inept or selfish hands....aka, a "cursed object". You don't need to be an expert level hacker or a marksman to deal out chaos using a stolen credit card or a gun. Wizard produced magic, has its vague set of costs, where using magic is addictive, and over a prolonged amount of time, can drain your sanity or youth, like the way meth affects users. Some people show more damage or get hit harder visibly and psycholigically by a drug issue than others...that would go back to the whole "Costs and Limits" thing. As of right now, there is no real limits to what anyone can do, it simply comes down to individual specialties and training or natural talent. There has been some difficulty for me, in trying to explain how magic works and then I realized, the WAY magic actually worked in my lore was not usually the real focus, it was the FEELINGS of the characters struggling thru other personal slice of life non-magical conflicts, such as bullies or family quarrels, that took the real focus of the narrative. Magic is only a tool used by the main antihero as a means of escapism, and to achieve feelings of superiority over his conditions. But what he is capable of, has always been loose, and I'm still trying to figure that out, as he like Harry is a character who grows slowly and learns new things over time.

[@Dia690]

While your idea is very agreeable and interesting, I think most of it is circling around a concept that is very similar to what has been said in the video, which is point of view. Your definition of "focus", "interaction", and "audience" are all centered around the idea of "who's using this magic, how often it is displayed, and who's seeing it". So it does felt only like a detailed version of the importance of "point of view" explained in the video.

[@prinstyrio0]

Been a while since I left a comment on your hard magic system where I talked about interest of writing my own fantasy novels and trying to figure this out. Lots happened IRL and I'm so sad I forgot about your videos, but came back to refresh my memory with more time to think of what I wanna write. I should read more books than I've done, but one I have and one I love is The Kingkiller Chronicles and my mind has often wandered to its magic systems and being bit envious the author thought of such a system before I could write any books. It's amazing, going between soft and hard, adding something for you to understand the world and make it more unique by having a magic system you can understand, but still keeping its mystical elements and wonder of a fantasy world by having a soft system that's more rare and advanced. I'm happy to hear it's something more rare in fantasy settings people make out there or atleast that you mentioned it opens up more doors, cause it's exactly what I've been thinking on how that it can create a rather complex and interesting world to explore with a lot of layers. You still have a magic system your main characters can use or atleast understand, making the world unique from just "a medieval world", but then you add other magic types that can't be easily explained that pops up. It's hard to think of something though and I've had a lot of ideas, yet I fear a lot of them might be used or not interesting enough. That's why I feel I should read way more books than I have or get in contact with people who have extensive knowledge of fantasy settings and all its magic systems to give some ideas and tips. Hopefully I manage either someday but your video has helped a lot in pinpointing what I seek and want. c:

[@neilsullivan7609]

I may be easily amused, but I love the Gandalf pop music head bob clips at just the right moments. Keep up the good work!

[@Lalandia-fy6qb]

I think I prefer soft magic over hard magic. I like the mystical nature and unpredictability. Sure it is fun to design a new magic system, but in the long run, the rules and limitations can make hard magic a bit dull.

[@jmozart198]

You have earned yourself a new sub. You make very interesting points and have alot of research under your belt

[@ethanviktor]

I'm so happy that you mentioned Raymond E. Feist's work. They're some of my favourite novels.

[@ollie2111]

Your new video helps me understand this one better yay

[@kavlan453]

Ok, I’m an aspiring author, I love Brandon Sanderson, I just found this, AND BOY OH BOY I LOVE IT PROPS TO YOU GOOD WORK GOOD JOB JUST YES 👏

[@Spongette]

I personally love Soft magic, cause it usually has a great and positive influence on the creative freedom writers can have. Aswell as the artistic spectacles that result from this.

[@kathyl6677]

Just found you this evening, and am taking notes. Glad to know that you encourage multi-systems. That's what I'm writing in my novel. Some good pointers for me to keep in mind. :)

[@LunaLament]

The fact that I'm only coming across these videos now is *frustrating* because I started to write a book with magic and this would have/ has now definitely helped! So thank you for this series so far, I'll be sure to take these things to heart (Although now that I think about my story more, I'm not sure if I actually want it more in visual or written form)

[@andrewriker4369]

Bro where is "A day in the life of Mishka?" I know you're busy but I love MISHKA Kawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[@Nintendofan781]

I love your vids man. they've been really helpful. I think the most important thing in a story is not just the magic element but also the characters. You gotta have good character structure. that's one thing I always focus on my stories. I find once you do that making up stories is easy. you just have to put your mind to it.

[@rainevermore4683]

Love your vids. Helped me create my own magic system.

[@thetattooedyoshi]

I prefer the hard system. Having a consistent set of rules and regulations for how things should work in a magic system or any kind of supernatural/super-power system really helps me avoid Ex Machina plot twists. Fullmetal Alchemist & My Hero Academia being my favorite sources to draw inspiration from. Soft systems are hard to work with because I've seen many a show/series that abuse the fact that there are no rules and Ex Machina their character(s) a new power basically out of nowhere (>cough< Fairy Tail >cough

[@jbcatz5]

One advantage to storytelling possibilities with hard magic systems is how characters work with them or how to work around them to expose new yet consistent to the system facets. Anything ill or inconsistently defined can be abused for deus ex machina or resolutions that fit the story the writer wants to tell rather than fitting the story into the established system. Science fiction can be bad for this, often applying some technobabble to exposit why something works, or justifying why the characters need a specific macguffin. Doctor Who has the sonic screwdriver, which was written out in the 80's because it was treated too much like a magic wand, an application that was heavily abused when the show returned in 2005 when doing things that had no relation to soundwaves whatsoever like interfacing with computers or manipulating other electronics (disabling the entertainment system of a tour shuttle for example)

[@violetsapphire952]

I myself am a strong proponent of hard magic systems. I always want to know, for myself, what the rules and limitations are, even if I keep it hidden from the readers. I guess I'm just weird like that.

[@VoltesWithElias]

Nice video. Will help with my story immensely 🙏 I think I will go with soft magic.

[@mysticturtle997]

The Gandalf head bob makes me laugh EVERY time.

[@purplepumkinater5465]

I personally love hard magic systems as it let me put myself in the shoes of the protagonist and let me think of interesting ways I personally would have solved a probers.(the same reason I love dnd so much)

[@iaifia3224]

I am creating a dnd based game. It. Is a hard magic system but because none of the charactors understand it except a select few, it is psrsived as soft. I think its a good concept what about you?

[@machochocolate7679]

Brilliant concept. Id actually like to borrow this idea for a shott story. whole reason I'm on this vid actually. So good idea, definitely.

[@kevingooley9628]

You might get some inspiration from Elantris by Sanderson. Multiple hard magic systems, but only understood by the few practitioners, so perceived as strange and mysterious by everyone else.

[@alexandredesouza3692]

My RPG magic system is basically "No two wizards are the same". There are a lot of Magic Users but all of them work differently. Each essentially has a different, individual magic system determined by a large number of variables (culture, region, genetics, training, augmentation, environmental factors, age of self discovery, crutches and shortcuts, style of use, etc) So, now almost any character could be potential magician, every encounter is a surprise mind fuck and many PCs (and NPCs) bluff their way into and out of situations by pretending to know magic. I've had players become afraid of an average NPC with no actual abilities by simply giving him a mask and followers. They are absolutely convinced this dude could kill them all in a couple rounds.

[@Toon_Topaz]

Just a newcomer here. I really enjoy your videos, they're super interesting ! You've earned a subscriber, congrats.

[@savanimay]

I realize that my fantasy series begins as a soft magic system but moves on to a hard magic system toward the end as the characters begin to understand their own powers and how the magic works within the universe.

[@rishithegamecreator]

Hey, I am a little confused with Magic System from 'Hunter x Hunter'. The system has rules in the fundamentals part with Ten, Zetsu, Ren, and Hatsu. But once you enter the advanced part, we see every individual has something like a 'Nen Ability'; These abilities will change from person to person and are virtually impossible to predict (making it kind of soft), but we also know that every character puts rules into their ability to make it more powerful (making it kind of hard as well). Also, the story kinda just don't tell us about these rules until we reach the 4th chapter but still utilizes it even in the first arc (since the main villain, knows about Nen and use it to the point he kinda called a Magician by other characters) Whenever the author introduces a new character and he does something, the reader would be like "because Nen...". But more we start to know about the character, more it becomes less "because Nen..." as we know what rules this particular character has put into that abilities. It's like 'Hunter x Hunter' magic system is neither hard or soft but more like a penis; soft when it starts, hard it get excited.

[@ceilingsintheireyes6288]

Baruah Enterprise I’d say it’s more Soft Magic than Hard. They can explain the basis of it all they want but really it seems to be limitless or at least complete fantasy. Whereas something like FMA is Hard because there are very clear limitations (can’t create out of nothing etc) and it’s seen as more scientific/natural.

[@moondowntheface6282]

That analogy at the end of your comment is random

[@xanderholland6086]

The Dragon Prince has a mixture of Hard and Soft Magic. You have to understand what it the type of magic you want to use in an instinctual manner while dark magic is just absorb magical animals to perform magic.

[@Graid]

Very well articulated look at not just what soft magic systems ARE and some common pitfalls of using them, but importantly also at how other works have approached and SOLVED those issues. This and the hard magic video clarified for me some problems I've been having with my story's use of magic as well as letting me know what I should consider when trying to solve that problem.

[@brendonmartin5664]

You should be awarded our 2nd Gold medal for this series.