The hunt for GREAT water washable resin (Part 1)

[@OnceinaSixSide]

I'm sorry for not explaining the purpose of the drop test properly in this video, so if you're a bit confused also here's my thinking on it: The goal is not to recreate a typical or realistic drop, rather it's to plot the differences between resins. To see which ones can survive these unrealistic & constrained conditions from worst to best. So then with that data we can look at them all on a graph and see how resin A compares to resin B. If we know resin A is good enough, and resin B is garbage, and resin C is overkill, then it should be obvious what resins D-Z are like from the data, and at the conclusion of the video the test failed to log enough of a difference between garbage and good enough. So it just needs tuning.

[@thisisabsolutelystup]

In that case, you can change the test item shape. It doesn't have to be a model with complex features and protrusions. Most materials testing uses coupons of regular shape: dog bones for tensile testing, small cylinders for compressive testing. Could you make a set of cylindrical test shapes, like one with a conic point, one with a rounded hemisphere, and one with a flat head, and see how they survive? You could also introduce reducing tapers behind the different head shapes, so full calibre maybe 15mm, then one necked down to 12mm, then to 10mm, and see how that affects impact survivability? You could also do internal erosion, so cavities rather than tapers, ideally with a sort of basket slitting along the outside for ease of draining/cleaning but also to allow the material to flex. Cylinders are quite strong shapes, adding in side cuts makes it more like testing a bunch of rectangles. That would give you some comparison points for different materials, maybe analagous to dropping on a spear or gun vs an arm or leg vs the base, and at different thicknesses, and potentially also the risk of breaking for a hollowed minature. Obviously would need tweaking depending on initial results. I really liked this video, because you explored your testing method and published failure. Publishing failure is something the research community does NOT do well and it leads to inherent selection bias in articles.

[@topkekbieri]

I second this. Slapping miniatures to the thing makes it seem like it's supposed to be a regular drop test. Using some other, geometric form would probably be best. But aren't there already standardized tests for flexibility, durability, hardness and such? I definitely watched a few videos comparing resins using tests that seem not that hard to replicate and are definitely more accurate, making a drop test pretty much obsolete, because shouldn't a drop test always be a realistic representation of, well, dropping a Mini off the table? Since trying to normalize a drop test isn't really necessary when there are other, more accurate tests to compare resin metrics? ​@@thisisabsolutelystup

[@JamesIbbetson-c5v]

I get it but I think you need to consider what you would like to “plot”. From the design of the test it seems like you wanted to plot number of fails/breaks and see a gradual signal. Unfortunately due to the nature of fracture mechanics I think that’s unlikely to work. In a nutshell, solid materials deform more and more with increasing force until they fracture catastrophically at a critical force. Which means if you apply a fixed force (I.e. weight and drop height) then you’ll pretty much see 100% fails OR 100% pass for a given material. Which you did! Only if you happen to be very close to the critical force should you expect to see a mix due to minor randomness. To differentiate between lots of resins you’d have to vary the force over a range to find each resin’s critical force. Doable…but would need lots of minis! E.g. Keep increasing the height until it breaks! I also agree that the extra weight matters. Something that can deform and bounce will behave differently to something that is squished under a large weight. I get that you were trying to guarantee the mini always hit the same way. I suggest something like a croquet mallet where the weight hits a stationary but “free” mini might be a better way to go. Plus flying minis would make for a fun video. Just need to catch them in something soft.

[@JamesIbbetson-c5v]

Ooh…just thought of something that might work with a small number of minis using your setup. Instead of a stock mini, Use an array of supports with a flat top and change the number and/or thickness of the supports. A few thin supports would break but many fat supports wouldn’t. You’d have to dial in a reasonable weight/height using a reference resin.

[@ComradeJehannum]

Do you have a link for the "grow tent" that you used as a fume hood? I'm going to have to stay printing in My shed and I've thought about additional volatile extraction.

[@Adam_Lynn]

You could just drop the mini's into a known height tube 2 or 3 times and see what damage is caused. Fixing them to a weight that crushes them on impact is not indicative of any real world scenario.

[@JameTek]

Yes, this test -- while interesting from a technical perspective, is testing impact resistance. Like, if you start hitting your models. It doesn't test whether it'll survive a drop from the table, it tests whether it'll survive a guy who got angry that he lost the game lol. This test is almost designed for tough resins -- which cost typically 2-3 times what a regular resin does, and IMO aren't necessary at all.

[@andrewh9284]

To everyone that uses water washable resin, you can use regular resin without using alcohol! Propylene glycol is very good at washing resin away. Its non toxic and has no scent, its most common use is as a food preservative. I use a 30/70 mix of and water with a bit of dish soap in spray bottle for cleaning things. and a vat of 40/60 of glycol to water for the prints. The only major difference is that the glycol has almost a slightly slimily residue. So my normal routine is drop the prints in the vat and do a rinse cycle anywhere from 10-60 min depending on quantity. after that I take a bowl of hot water and dish soap and just wash away that residue. then dry and cure. If you look at the safety data sheets for non-alcoholic resin cleaners almost all them use as there main ingredient propylene glycol. The actual resin cleaning products though are more expensive. Where I am PPG is cheaper then alcohol as well. Its also goes further then alcohol because you can dilute it I bought 2 gallons a year ago and have never opened the second bottle. If people want proof I can upload some of my prints after cleaning to show. Nobody in my opinion should be using alcohol its just way to harsh.

[@NomaddUK]

I'd love to know more. Have you created a video showing how? If so, drop a link. Thanks.

[@andrewh9284]

​@@NomaddUK I don't have a video, but Can explain. It pretty much works the same way as anything else. I have my vat which is about 60-40 water to glycol. When I finish a print I drop it in there and wash it. After That I take a bowl of hot water with dish soap and throw the print in there. This is also typically when I remove the supports as the hot water helps them release without leaving harsh marks. I then have a couple cheap cheap sponges that I use to go over the print and clean any areas that might have been recessed so the wash couldn't clean them nicely. After this I take everything and just rinse them with water. dap them dry with a towel then let them dry and cure in my curing station. For all my components I have a spray bottle that I mix to about 70/30 water to glycol with dish soap. I use this for cleaning the vat, Fep, Build plate, any tools. I just spray it generously and then wipe with shop towels. All waste goes into clear garbage bags which I can leave outside to cure and dump. The Vats are also really easy to clean. I have not replaced the glycol/water ever. The resin seperates from the glycol mixture way better then alcohol in my experience. Alcohol always ends being a slurry with resin suspended in the alcohol. With the gycol the resin just sinks to the bottom of the vat if you just let it rest. I dump the liquid into a spare vat. take the old one outside to let cure and scrape clean. Here are some photos: imgur.com/gallery/resin-vat-TjPU2oz This of the vat. I have not cleaned that liquid in over 6 months I just top it up every now then as the water slowly evaporates. Which is also a huge plus because glycol doesn't evaporate. I have printed about 8kg of resin with that without it needing to be cleaned. imgur.com/gallery/prints-dGR5Dl9 Here are some prints the unpainted ones I just did the other day as a commission for somebody. The tanks I printed a while ago and have been painted. Overall It might take a bit longer to clean and dry things because alcohol just destroys resin, and evaporates so quickly. But it is so easy for me to work with and there's no strong odor and its just a better experience.

[@86abaile]

@@andrewh9284 Very interesting to know. Do you think it would be possible to expose the contaminated liquid, filter and recycle it? I just built a diy wash recycler.

[@andrewh9284]

​@@86abaile Yes most likely. if you look at that imgur link of the vat. You can see the mixture is almost perfectly clear after months of use. I never got that with alcohol.

[@mantis114]

One way of disposing the waste water would be to get some kitty litter and dump the water onto the kitty litter for it to absorb. That way you can let it evaporate on its own and/or dump it in the trash. Where I live (Pacific NW of Canada) this was the recommended method of safety disposing of used resin by our Recycle hotline.

[@yoschiannik8438]

I am nowhere near convince that this is even remotly a safe way to dispose if resin.

[@Aceborn-Gaming]

Why not just put the waste water in a big transparent jug and leave it in the sun for a couple of days?

[@yoschiannik8438]

@@Aceborn-Gaming Thats the big thing with water washbale resin: The seemingly obviouse way to cure it just dosent work. The water resin mixture will just creat a galtinues goo thats half cured half uncured, that just wont fully cure. Well it technicly will, but you will be long dead by the time it does

[@topkekbieri]

@@Aceborn-Gaming A big container of water is gonna take more than a few days to evaporate, even in searing heat.

[@mantis114]

@@yoschiannik8438 I was told by the recycle hotline that it was the safest way to dispose of resin. An extra step I do was to hit the resin with a UV light or leave it out in the sun for a few hours to harden

[@Janovich]

You need to reduce the extra weight of the drop test so it just simulates the miniatures itself dropping on the floor. With less weight air resistance becomes an issue, but you just make holes in the mount for the air to move through instead of it being a solid block.

[@forrestwentworthii1321]

I use water washable resin because the solvents were not an option around my kids when they were younger. Now I use it out of habit - my printer is dialed in for the Sunlu water washable which is affordable so that's what I use. For cleanup I hand rinse my prints by swishing them back and forth in a clear 5 L bucket of tap water. I only print on the weekends so I put the lid on the clear bucket and set it out in the sun during the week which cures and precipitates the resin dissolved in the rinsate. This typically leaves two layers. A cleaner layer of several L on top and a sludge layer at the bottom of resin precipitate and some water. Siphon off the clean water at the top to dispose of and then pour the sludge layer into a disposable aluminum baking pan with a clear plastic lid (it is technically disposable but I'm still using the same pan I first started with years ago. The baking pan evaporates off any water still in the sludge and then the solidified remaining resin can be trashed. As far as drying time, I've never noticed that because I water cure my minis. They go straight from rinsing to the water tub in my curing chamber. I actually forgot that if you use alcohol you have to wait for it to dry. Also, Sunlu recently released a water washable ABS like.

[@RoofusKit]

My advice for improving the drop test is to eliminate as much of the extra mass as you are able, and compensate for any extra by reducing the drop height. Most miniatures have very low mass and adding more than double that to a miniature and dropping it from a whole meter is just way more punishment than any miniature is going to see in real life. Ideally you would start with a known resin like the Sunlu ABS like and try to replicate what it's like to drop one of those off a table. If you can make the worst damage from a table drop repeatable in your rig then you have succeeded.

[@topkekbieri]

I am an avid fan of the ABS-Like V2 from Anycubic. I find it's more than durable enough for typical tabletop use while being pretty cost effective, especially at the 3 for 2 sales Anycubic has regularly. I've been using water washable resins for pretty much my entire printing-journey after switching to it when my first bottle of resin that came with the printer ran out. The ABS-Like V2 is the first one where minis usually survive a fall, save if they hold something spikey like a spear. Dropped a huge and heavy demon guy while painting once and it came out unscathed. On the topic of drying times: I've adjusted my cleaning process to a three-step process a while ago. First, the typical dirty wash, then a clean wash (both with water) and then just a quick dunk in IPA. That washes away all the excess water making the drying times pretty much indistinguishable from a regular alcohol wash while keeping costs for alcohol down, as I only need to keep one bottle handy at any time. I'm blessed to have a recycling center near me within walking distance where I can dump my water roundabout every two months, otherwise I would probably stop using water washable resin as it does indeed get dirty quite quickly. My dirty wash usually only lasts me about 5 or 6 build plates before I need to change the water.

[@TheHunch8ack]

Yes, I use that for scenery and chunky stuff, topkebieri. It can get a bit brittle/fuzzy if you take it down to 0.030mm, in my experience, but that may just be my fine-tuning? Have you used it down there or always around 0.050mm? It also seems to absorb more water over time than Wargamer if you don't prime it promptly.

[@topkekbieri]

@@TheHunch8ack Printing at anything lower than 0.05mm is nonsense, in my opinion. Just takes that much longer to print without any noticeable advancements in details. ESPECIALLY not when primed and painted. I made that experiment early on and printed some of the same models at 0.03 and 0.05, then showed them to a couple friends of mine and they could not spot any differences, so I did away with anything lower than 0.05.

[@breakfire9712]

DUDE THANK YOU, ive been using the anycubic standard water washable and been looking for reviews for the abs like v2 for ages but everyone just says "lol water washable is garbage", once i run out of my resin ill definitely be looking at giving the abs like a go :)

[@TheHunch8ack]

@@topkekbieri Yes, I agree in general. Not least with the fading resolution of my own oldie-eyes. But then you can get fewer, less obvious layer lines with the very small stuff (with some other tweaks and orientations), though, which is handy. Interestingly I would find that some barrels and antennae which were quite snappable at 5nm were less so at 3nm, possibly because of the different stepping when angled? Not much difference visually but it did seem to help, sometimes, structurally.

[@MrCai01]

Currently on sale for £17 for 1000g in the UK at the moment too. I may look to give it a try, but I've been fortunate that i've not had any issues with my water washable resin. Accidents do happen i suppose

[@JmGnq]

About your results: a drop test it is hard to produce the repeatability. It would be nice to do a traction test, you would need just to print the same 3D model and have a tool that would measure the force that you are implying. Same thing about compression and twist test, they are common in mechanical engineering. And have waaaay more control for the test

[@rowanisjustatree]

I cure the water then I use a distiller to clean it. I've been on the same 2 gallons for months. Just turn off the distiller before all the water is gone to make it easier to clean the tank. The plastic goes into the garbage. I put the left over tank water into a can with a little cat litter to absorb it.

[@jonyv14]

Best results I've ever gotten have been with the Elegoo Water washable Ceramic Grey. It washes just fine with water and is just as cheap as Sunlu in most resin. I've had no issues thus far, When you're done washing your prints just put the water outside in the sun. It settles and hardens at the bottom and the water can be poured off to evaporate.

[@Nightblade44]

I use plastic pickling containers for my washes. They work great. Air tight seal. Plastic. Good basket. I do wish they had a better spout to pour.

[@YesThats3DPrinted]

In the instructions to WARGAMER we recommend spraying with a spray bottle instead of using a wash station. It results in much less wastewater ☺️ try it once!

[@orinn777]

Drop test variation. 3d print a trellis structure out of different resins. Use the drop tube to drop ever increasing weights on them until they become damaged. This will give a general toughness of the resin. For fun you can repeat the test on the figures to see what weights they can take.

[@flowinsounds]

i live in a place with 90% humidity minimum (the west coast of NZ) my fully uv cured water based resins slowly absorbed water. in a year, my models had crumbled. ones i had done in clear and fully varnished (my lictors) must have had a tiny exposed part somewhere, as their noodly appendages slowly flopped and then fell off, before they collapsed in their own footprint. I went looking into the science of water reabsorption of water based resin and found a tiny amount. it basically said that it is inevitable, and my material scientist friend laughed at me. So my harsh environment just made it fast. Lots of people are going to have crumbled miniatures in the next 10 years

[@leighanddansinclair1696]

A year's worth of prints using eSun water-washable resin all developed fine surface cracks over a hot humid Wellington summer. This was after being very careful about minimizing water exposure during washing (limiting time and drying as quickly as feasible) prior to curing. I'm trying another water-washable resin (Elegoo 8K space grey water washable), but I'm now pretty disillusioned as I have invested a lot of time and money into 3D printing. However, I'm pretty much stuck with water washable resin as I can't use volatile/flammable cleaning agents because of the fire and VOC hazards.

[@flowinsounds]

​@@leighanddansinclair1696 ouch. sorry to hear that. I tried to share it on reddit a couple of years ago, but got banned from the sub for not agreeing with the hive mind. I'd ask someone else to print for you, tbh. my experience was so disheartening. The stuff i read was pretty clear, the water based resins cannot completely set ever, and remain hygroscopic. heat cycling makes it worse... they are a timebomb of disappointment

[@Xiv2022]

This is really worrying! Cost and time about to disintegrate before my eyes.

[@greaterpainter7996]

Thanks for this I've been thinking about making the switch but im glad I've been doing my research

[@CaltropArt]

For testing for wargame miniatures, can you do a control test with like a GW mini? Or another big brand plastic miniature?. These things are the standard for wargaming and it would be great to see how they compare to resin counterparts. I feel like some store bought plastic minis would fail against fimblys torment haha.

[@wrxrox]

I’ve been using any cubic and sunlu on a gk2 and have had good experiences with both. I’ve had a couple failures though that could be more likely to me being new to resin printing. I use a 2.5 exposure with 6mm base layer. For the water I rinse and wash with a water hose in a 5 gallon bucket outside and just let it evaporate. Living in AZ helps with that part

[@stonelion99]

I think that moving the opening of the tube up and letting the model bounce is definitely the way to do it. Currently, it's more of a crush test, not a fall test. Alternatively, instead of a drop test, you could do a more accurate test of using a digital force guage to see how much a piece specifically designed for the test can twist, bend, and crush.

[@bibo987945]

I use sunlu abs-like water washable and satisfied with the printing detail and cost.

[@thepenismightier]

🤜🤛 👍

[@ChrisOsberg]

I really appreciate this sort of experiment. I look forward to see an improved version. 🤞 I am LOVING using water-washable resin. I started with normal resin, but after moving, I no longer knew where to dispose of the alcohol. As far as I could tell there was no where to go (I found a place later, but it's definitely suboptimal). The printing experience is SO MUCH improved with water. The only drawback, and it's a big one, is dealing with the contaminated water. I can't easily let it evaporate--which would take forever anyway. *My solution is to put the contaminated water in a bucket, soak it up with some towels, and then put the towels on a drying rack outside.* It evaporates quickly, it's not too messy, and after several cycles, much of the resin can be rubbed off of the towels, and put into the garbage. I am not planning on washing the towels, because that would put the plastic into the water.

[@nothingview]

Dr. Beakman would be proud of you. Thanks for the experiment, waiting for the second part!

[@Core-vu6mc]

You need to let the miniature fall on its own and bounce as it wants to bounce. Weighing the mini down isn't proving anything.

[@perz1val]

Because? That's just "I feel like you're wrong" type of argument. Kinetic energy is mass*velocity*velocity. The test compares impact resistance of different resins. The extra mass does not matter, because it was equal for all the samples [1]. The distance (velocity) was equal too. All samples had to deal with the same energy and some did it better than the others. Equal conditions is exactly the test that should be conducted, unlike some random, bouncy and inconsistent drops. Then there are the cases when a book falls on the mini, which makes the bouncing irrelevant. [1] technically different resins may have slightly different density, so the added mass would average that. I'll risk stating it is insignificant enough (except resin with additives, but that's too far) and in practice a thicker layer of paint could make a bigger difference.

[@topkekbieri]

@@perz1val The thing is, it's not that "some did better than others". Some resins survived, some didn't. But that just means some resins cleared a certain threshhold where they didn't break. Yeah, that means that those resins are indeed tougher than the others, but it doesn't allow for an accurate ranking. It's not that trying to normalize a drop test is a bad thing, but it's really, really hard to do so. A better way to determine an accurate rating on toughness for these resins would be to print the same mini in the same resin at least 10 times and dropping them from a table at normal playing height, reproducing a normal playing situation and simulating dropping that mini. Not with 1 or 2 models - that's like trying to determine the average roll from a dice in 4 rolls but with as many models as possible. It's time intensive and will use a lot of resins but it's a better way of determining the real-world toughness of resins than trying to normalize a drop test.

[@Core-vu6mc]

@@perz1val YES, the mass matters. I don't typically tie weights to my minis. Dropping a based mini from a table to a hard surface is a more realistic test.

[@johngordon9426]

You are correct, they will bounce, flex and diffuse the impact forces, plus air resistance slowing velocity.

[@tenchuu007]

​@@perz1valRight, so you are completely missing the point people are making: the mass was wrong. It doesn't matter how they perform under the wrong conditions. I can tie a 100kg weight to ten different runners and it's not going to tell me which is fastest, it's going to tell me which is fastest with 100kg of extra weight.

[@ROU-Vackie]

in terms of experimental design and making this testing scientifically sound, there are a few big things i would keep in mind: 1- you want to have more results to eliminate outliers and increase reliability of the test i would recommend printing multiple copies of the same mini (minimum 3) and dropping them all for example you print one and it breaks the data says 100% failure but if you have say 4 more and they survive you can identify that 80% survived , this would also help gather data on print reliability if you keep track of successful vs failed prints 2- what are you seeking to measure? i would recommend doing two types of test impact resistance and durability for that i would suggest do a low height drop test repeating until the mini breaks for durability and a high height drop test for impact resistance 3- subjects for this experiment in particular i would also go for full miniatures with a standardised range between chunky and spindly. 4. this is basic but have a control to measure against thanks to anyone who read this, take care

[@CoolTrainerJulio]

I was already a massive fan of yours just from your cinematography, editing, scripting, etc. But I've gained so much more admiration for you and your channel seeing your commitment and respect for the scientific method!

[@adrianvandriel4142]

I would recommend looking into the Charpy impact test. It's a standard test for doing exactly what you were doing here and other youtubers have used it with decent results on 3D prints

[@no_wegian]

I use water washable for cost, smell, and not flammable. I store my dirty water in empty and closeable cat litter buckets (Purina Yellow Buckets) and then I bring them to my county recycle and disposable station. I wait until I have about 6 of them full. I've had success with Elegoo ABS V2 water washable. But then again, I haven't dropped many... but at the same time, I would expect any model regardless of resin to break no matter what. I understand the alcohol washable is stronger, but I just don't want the hassle, smell, and potential of catching fire :)

[@permeus2nd]

So the problem with the test is it’s removing one key feature that most plastics have, they have a natural spring to them, your rig dosnt allow for them to bounce so the tension can’t transfer into momentum, it’s i nice idea and probably took you far to long to set up but I think a state up table knock would have been faster cheaper and of course far more realistic.

[@joeterry2112]

Thank you for the experiment. It was proof of what I knew on a anecdote level. You give something up to use water washable resin. The best I have found is the Resione W901B. Its about $20USD right now on sale. It may not measure up to your gold standard, but it is way better than the elegoo.

[@StephenThomas-fy3qp]

Would be great to hear more about plant based resins, how they stack up, if they're actually more environmentally friendly (I guess this would be a tricky one to tackle...). Love your channel, keep up the good work :)

[@MisterkeTube]

In some countries IPA is considered a "dangerous" chemical hard to get hold of. Then again, although IPA is hard to get hold of here, > 90% ethanol and methanol are not, so I guess those could possibly be used instead of IPA? Anyway, the little bit of resin printing I did was with water-washable Elegoo resin, dumping the post-wash water into some transparent plastic containers that then are left out in the sun for days or weeks and finally the resin is then filtered out with a sieve. Is that good enough to make the water as safe as what your washing machine pumps out? I hope so ...

[@morphf-YouTube]

I’ve printed a tpu seal for the sunlu ultrasonic to keep the smell inside. AND a basket in there is a must. Heavier models that are laying on the floot of the metal tank, interrupt and reduce vibrations of the motor. So that results in a half cleaned model. SUNLU made a big design flaw here

[@MickTee2k]

I understand the benefit of the puck - it partly negates the weight of the model to overcome air resistance, making a more consistent test between different weighted models. However, that is not a realistic test as your miniatures are never dropped with a weight attached to them. One way around it is to use something softer than concrete, although I would recommend designing a more custom and robust test piece. Maybe one with different rated fracturing points so you gauge not just broken/notbroken but "It snapped to the #4 mark".

[@freedoomed]

Having the sabo changes the impact greatly, it has that additional material pushing from the top causing even more stress so the test cant be equated to a normal drop of the same height. You also need a larger sample size of each print in each resin so you can take an average, if 1 out if 5 breaks its a lot better than 4 out of 5. So if i were setting up a similar test i would do 5 prints of each model in each resin followed by 5 drops of each model so you have multiple metrics to base your findings on. For the mechanism a slit in the tube with a small platform that you pull away with a linear actuator could work.

[@jaurybeltraoengers5986]

Elegoo and Anycubic water washable resins are doing really well for me, but the surprise came when i tried mixing these 2 resins, Anycubic water wash Grey and Elegoo Water Wash white, idk why, but mixing these 2 resins, 1/3 Anycubic Grey and 2/3 Elegoo White just made one of the best resins I've tried... Had a mini of a Svartwood Troll from Artisan guild, fall twice and come out perfect, it is heavy, holding an axe and has a thin long tail, i was quite surprised, been mixing them ever since... Just bought the Anycubic Water Washable resin +, and it is super brittle on its own, i will try mixing it.

[@wetland3010]

I see that you watched Professor Julius Sumner Miller. Good inspiration. Yeah, I grew up with him too, bless him.

[@kamilkubera5958]

Put plastic minis under this test for comparison too. A lot of people claim that resin 3d printed minis are too fragile, would be nice to have a comparison between them and plastic ones.

[@MrRacerdon40]

Interesting.... Buying that tough stuff since I'm working on thin car bodies, thanks for the pointers!

[@SlainBlackguard]

The "retro" science presentation effects were amazing! Thank you for all you do!

[@necros899-t]

I love the testing reliability, big mythbuster vibe that Im here for

[@lovinggiants]

I cure my water washable over night. And they work just fine when i accidentally fling them across the room. Unless theyre like a skinny elf or something. The added weight on this test ensures one result and literally that one result only. Despite the notion of a controlled variable.

[@morphf-YouTube]

A good help by the Sunlu water washable is to mix in 20% toughness. Makes it less brittle. But still,washable with water.

[@richardrussell7082]

1. Just a flat disc on top of the tube 2. Small washer in the mini base 3. Hold a magnet on top of the disc to keep it sandwiched between the magnet and the mini. 4. Put the disc on top of the tube. 5. Lift the magnet away from the disc allowing the mini to drop.

[@garolish]

A better repeatable droptest could be to hit the minis with a hammer that swings like a pendulum on an axis while the models are standing and not beeing held in place. That should emulate a drop on the ground that is always the same angle and the same force. I am no engineer though, but maybe that's an idea. Also please please test anycubic UV tough resin. Have been using that stuff for flexible and durable and really liked it. would love to hear your opinion on it.

[@SimulatorExpert-g6v]

Liking the resin comparisons it can be difficult these days to know what to buy. Thank you.

[@danielparis3175]

I use the elegoo water washable but with alcohol for washing. Im a bit new to resin printing and i find it was very user friendly with my mars.

[@morphf-YouTube]

And to help the drying time, just do a final dip in alcohol. That way the mini is dry in no time and the alcohol doesn’t get dirty (so it goes a long way before it needs to be replaced)

[@MorganScott82]

haven't watched this yet but I'm absolutely loving Sunlu Water Washable, granted I still wash it in isopropyl alcohol, but the properties of the resin are fabulous. Crisp detail, not too brittle, the right amount of flex, it cures faster than Sunlu standard (1.85s vs 2.25s, which isn't much but when you run a print shop on only a couple of printers a 20% time saving is significant) and I got 12kgs at 16.99 USD/kg

[@PrestonMcgill]

I use the sunlu water washable as my go to, I have yet to have many issues with it

[@TheOneAndOnlyTed]

I agree with most of the comments that the weight is probably not the best way to test. I think the rest of it is a good idea though as it keeps the falls more consistent than just dropping the mini by itself from a fixed height, because they will just land randomly. Maybe you could replace the weight with a 3d printed cylinder to maintain the consistency, and dramatically reduce the affect of the weight on the prints.

[@tchynerd]

I'd like to see the test again withput the extra weight. If you glue a magnet to the bottom then you could have another electricslly controlled magnet be your switch. Bonus, you could also test if gluing washers to the bottom breaks more models

[@cnspartan]

I'm a home brewer and a device I have to use is a stir plate. Maybe you throw in the parts of the mini's into a stir plate with something that won't dissolve. It will either work perfectly or be a complete disaster.

[@DarthP00P00]

I got into 3D printing during the pandemic when IPA was scarce. Water washable resins was the only real option. I have a Mars 2 Pro, and still exclusively use their translucent water washable resins. Its affordable, easy to work with, doesn't smell as bad, and doesn't require all these other chemicals. And the translucent resins allow me to inspect the bed after every print to make sure the FEP is ok, and it allows (in my opinion) a more thorough cure as light can penetrate the model easier. Is it brittle? Sure. But I handle my minis with care when I play and they are on a shelf for most of their existence anyway so its never been an issue for me.

[@whittaker007]

Drop test: just feed the model into the top of the tube without the faff of the extra mass from the magnetic holder and just let it fall under it's own weight. You could also do something like print a sword or spear or a true-scale mini limb or any other kind of typical fragile bit and fix it in place with a vice or something. Then make a cheap little force gauge by taking a small hammer, drill a hole near the top of the handle so you can hang it on a nail or something so it swings like a pendulum. Raise the hammer head to a marked height and let it go so it swings down to hit the model on one side with the same force each time.

[@JadenKatrell1979]

I am curious what dimensions did you use for the basket to make it fit the ultrasonic cleaner?

[@terriblegamers2213]

I have been pretty happy with the sunlu ww abs like. Was easy to calibrate and I have had a much easier time removing supports and minis not breaking compared to elegoo ww. Elegoo is extremely brittle and chipped constantly. Have not tried some of the others yet though.

[@xEternalEnigmax]

The drop weight could be reduced greatly to like... Just a magnet and a hollow puck. Or even keep the tube and just attach a magnet to the base and let them fall in the tube. As long as its a reasonable weight and a controlled freefall, it gives a baseline comparison regardless of if its a extreme test.

[@McFlyOrPie]

Do you have a video about the full post process.... uh... process? I'm 1.5 years into FDM printing and 1.5 months into resin printing. I not only struggle with getting the Cones Of Calibration V3, to print right, I struggle with cleaning up any scars from the supports. I'm tempted to get those finger nail buffing pads. And with my eSun Hard-Tough Resin, at 20 micron layer height, I can not get the cones to print, yet be able to get the sword to fit in the skull. at 2 second layers, the cones are all perfect, but supports merge and he sword is wonky and bulbous. The 6mm block, is 6.12. Anything under 2 second layer height, the cones start to fail. Prints tend to look okay, but I have to file down any joints for multi-part prints.... I have a Mars 4 "9K". Any fellow viewers have any tips?

[@WarmasterHorus96]

I really like your idea of testing the resing strength. However I would probably recommend some adjustments. Like you yourself mentioned the minis get crushed by their weight from the custom socket you made. I would probably scrap that and modify it. Your merged models could have (on the backside) some holes in the resin bases for small magnets. Probably a lot more wasteful but the mini would be tested against it's own weight and not crushed against the socket that also negatively impacts the way it would probably bounce of. Oh and phrozen also has a cure station that does have an inbult fan in it & LED's on the bottom side. The main reason I bought that Wash & Cure kit :)

[@hugheja89]

Was just about to comment saying you should try some existing tough and durable resins to compare the results to, and then that’s exactly what you’re doing. Stellar work. I know sunlu do have a water washable abs like too that people say is pretty good so could be worth trying that too at some point

[@thomasplaukovits792]

It would be interesting to know how long you washed and cured the models. I have only been using the anycubic abs like v2 (so i dont know if this holds true for other resins as well), but it is extremely sensitive to how long you wash and cure. Any resin takes on water which alters its structural properties so you should wash for as short as possible. I keep it to a short dunk, scrub with a toothbrush and then swirl it in the bucket which takes no longer than a minute and has been enough to get every model clean so far. Curing time for the anycubic abs like v2 is also quite important. Curing for 3 minutes gives me a nice flexible model, while curing for 4 minutes gives me an extremely brittle model that sometimes breaks just from tipping over.

[@pengwint.5101]

A quick note on you not wanting to try water washable resins because you didn't want to contaminate water... You can wash those resins in a transparent tub then leave the tub out in direct sunlight for like a day - this will "cure" the resin residue. Then filter the water through a paper filter when (or before) disposing. The water you dispose should be clean this way. Also consider the water cost of isopropanol production, bottling, and shipping... I'm fairly certain that will have a much worse environmental impact than properly treated and disposed tapwater.

[@karbon4542]

What you need to do with the drop test is eliminate the weight that sits behind the mini when it impacts. Until you get rid of that weight, it will never simulate what it's like to drop a mini that impacts with only its own mass. To do that, I would look for a way to stop the main body of the puck about 5-10cm from the bottom, allowing just the mini to continue. Build a sabot that matches the base of the mini, that then uses just a friction fit to sit in the red plastic ring. Then for the bottom of the tube, build a stop that's ~1cm less diameter than the tube, such that the puck cannot go past it. When the puck hits it, the friction fit will fail and the sabot + mini will continue.

[@mrnlce7939]

You need a much lighter way to attach the minis as its crushing them (perhaps something made from foam). Or a trapdoor mechanism. However if you do go the trapdoor method the mini might tumble on the way down and land on different point every time. Great video. Keep up the good work.

[@PulsefiredGaming]

You dispose of it at a Household hazmat landfill... the exact same place that you dispose of your dirty Ipa.

[@Kycirion]

I started using the Nova Mecha resin and its amazing all by itself. Great resolution quality and super flexible.

[@haskear2]

I have a mono 2 as well as the big creality. The mono 2 is way better for small detail stuff. I think personally it’s all to do with the fact smaller printers do not get the same flex when the print lifts from the vat. I use the creality for larger stuff but for single figs etc always the little anycubic,

[@mrgriff9648]

You should try Sunlu detergent, makes "normal" resins water washable and it can hold more resin per g than alcohol. It doesnt stink even when full of resin and can be sonicated. I cant find an msds for that particular brand but others are made from dipropylene glycol or tripropylene glycol that you can pick up cheaper than the resin wash.

[@Fontzig]

How is this compared to GW hard plastic? Can't really bend any of those small pieces either before they break.

[@86abaile]

With regards to your drop test, the only good thing about it is you can consistently control the impact orientation; everything else about it is garbage. The weight of the puck will skew any results and the fact that the puck constrains the mini at the point of impact and prevents it from either bouncing or rolling will just dramatically increase the impulse on the part.

[@bluefyr22]

This is the video that made me subscribe. Drop them minis!!

[@jaakkosippola7191]

I just wanted to say that at least Wargamer Resin says that it is a maximum of 3 min of washing and not to use washing stations and dumping methods for washing. When they say under running water they do not mean under a tap. It means into another container with a spray bottle or with a hose. With this, it does not produce as much wastewater. They said that it has an effect on the strength of the mini if you fully put it underwater. Tho when I asked how they actually did not know why. As for the drop test. the base might be so heavy base that it makes the whole thing pointless. You would not drop a mini in a way that there is a heavy piece dropping on top of it. You could try buying an electromagnet and gluing a small piece of metal under the mini and just turning the magnet off. Tho the air resistance will absolutely have an effect on how it lands at that point. I would actually think that tests for pull force or the test with a swinging hammer to test the force for snapping would be better. Not sure tho. Now that I try to rationalize this to myself it seems that it would still be a pain and hard to pull off. So ignore that.

[@felixxcatus]

availability also plays a role in choosing my resin, I really wanted to like Sunlu Tough but they're always out of stock in Europe, and they sent me the wrong color because the one I ordered was out of stock when they shipped it the Elegoo ABS v3 I'm trying out is not the best, but it's cheap and arrives in 7 days, and I can get more whenever I want to

[@CanuckHam]

I enjoy the sunlu grey abs like water washable resin.

[@vectorshaman338]

Now do water solvable for FDM support systems. It usually requires a dual print head, but pretty cool none the less.

[@decksirwin4540]

Bought my first 3d printer off a video from this channel and bought a bottle of resin but didn't realise it was elegoos water washable. I hope it prints ok .

[@denysvisser]

Love seeing testing! Good work mate. I suggest using Izod Impact testing( or any other impact test method). It’s more boring but better repeatability and tests what you are looking for, Impact resistance.

[@TheHunch8ack]

PS: I spray the crap out of my water washable stuff (into a sealable bucket), then do two sloshes in pickle-jars, then ultrasonic, then spray again (in deionised this time). I'm a bit . . . er . . . thorough. But you can do that with ww (just make sure you still wear a mask) and it's okay. I leave stuff outside in a clear bucket to evaporate most of it, then slop that into the burnable rubbish when it's turned into a big, gooey lump of slime. You need to be careful about leaving it too long, though, or it will kill the bucket by sticking to it. I also do the spraying into a binbag-lined tub with newspaper in it. That soaks up the spray, then I take that outside to evaporate between cleaning cycles. Again, that eventually just gets chucked in the burn-waste as it's just damp, slightly resin-caked paper by then.

[@ditchdigger106]

For a more useful drop test, you could try variable weight - a hollow container filled with lead fishing weights. This would allow you to dial back the forces involved in the test, and potentially also find a specific breaking point for each resin - start with an empty weight chamber, and then add weight incrementally with each drop until the figure breaks. Granted you have a noodle in there regarding the history of stress delivered to the material, but in the end I think that's still a useful benchmark for the question you're really asking here, which is "how much impact trauma can this resin hold up to."

[@alexscholz3438]

I'm kinda surprised you went through the whole puck thing given you probably would've gotten fairer and more accurate results with some kind of magnet setup. Magnet under mini, magnet at end of stick, a brace within the tube or something to make the magnet detach/pry off easily and boom. Any additional weight upon the miniatures isn't really indicative of what a drop test should be testing for imo. Great video, would love to see something like this again with a bit of tuning 👌

[@Grithertime]

to throw a curve ball. What about an evaluation of additives to various resins? I add Siraya tech Tenacious to all my Siraya Tech Fast. ~ 100 ML per liter...

[@awildtomappeared5925]

btw ethanol and denatured alcahol don't smell nearly as bad as IPA, but yeha first diry wash stange will still smell

[@topkekbieri]

I think he's using methylated spirits, which is the same as denatured alcohol (don't quote me on that though). It doesn't smell nearly as bad as IPA, but it's still bad.

[@andreafalconiero9089]

@@topkekbieri Yes, in the UK, Australia, and some other former British colonies, "methylated spirits" seems to be the name given to what the Americans call "denatured alcohol". It's usually a mixture consisting mostly of ethanol, together with enough methanol and other toxic/foul tasting additives to prevent people from drinking it. The formula likely varies considerably from one country and/or manufacturer to the next. Here in Canada, denatured alcohol/methylated spirits isn't easily obtained, but what we *do* have here that is in some ways better is pure (>99%) _methanol_ (wood alcohol). It's sold under the name of "methyl hydrate" at any hardware store for a very reasonable price (about $4/litre). 99% IPA is about 4x as expensive. Methanol is an excellent cleaner, (probably a bit better even than ethanol or isopropanol), but unfortunately it is also flammable and even more toxic than either of those other simple alcohols, so it needs to be handled with care. A fume hood or some other method of providing excellent ventilation is a very good idea when using methanol to clean 3D resin prints!

[@robertpenduck8455]

I still use my Anyqubic photo se printer which is half the size of my mono x but is a work horse and I use it for 28mm to large size statue prints. If they are to big I just chop them up in photon workshop which is great for pie slicing bases or literally choping a model in half.

[@MrConTronics]

To round things up, are you going to make a Video on Resin Detergents? Or is it something you are not interested in? Im just getting back into Resin Printing and am set up to try the Sunlu Detergent for the sake of smell. Seems like you cant really find that many reviews on the Detergents but whats there sounds promising. Is it just not that popular because of its pricetag? What do you think? And thanks again for you great Content :) Always happy to see new stuff you create.

[@Macabri_2k10]

instead of a drop test with added unecessary weight, reverse the test setup. take an average miniature fixed "standard" weight and drop it onto the minitature, this way you take the randomness of impact angle out of the equation, so you don't need the fixture to orient the miniature. you also get rid of the added weight of the holder fixture, you can drop it onto the miniature, with the minature in different orientations to get targetet results

[@OnceinaSixSide]

Great idea!

[@Aceborn-Gaming]

I have read about people putting the waste water in a transparent container and leave it in the sun and others just leave it in a tray in the sun for the water to evaporate and then the cured resin can just be thrown away in a bin.

[@Whoopsie00]

In my experience this just doesn't work as well as it does in theory. It leaves a gelatinous glob that's now neither a liquid (somewhat manageable) of a solid (very manageable).

[@HonageMaximus]

Another aspect of durability of water washable resins that has really ruined models for me is the tendency for some resins to crack over time when kept in even slightly humid environments. Ive had fully painted models after a month end up covered in hairline cracks completely ruining the model.

[@leighanddansinclair1696]

Me too. Just about all my water-washable resin minis developed surface cracks over one warm humid NZ summer.

[@chaptermastermoloc7331]

I think there are some slight problems with the test one the pieces would not be falling with all the added weight of the metal screws 3d printed parts and everything. 2: With the pieces being held in a static place they don't have the chance to tumble meaning that they can't move or react to hitting the floor and bounce in back. Yes it being static in some aspects is good but it far to unrealistic to how it would be IRL. I personally you the Anycubic Water Washable Black and have only ever had two pieces break off one falling and breaking off my metal chair and the other I accidentally flung off my dresser after turning around too fast. Anyways though I can't really say that the results of the test are an accurate representation of the resins this seems more like a maximum extreme that you would only really see once or twice and rarely at that. If possible I would try and limit the amount of extra weight added to the model then at least the added mass won't affect the impact of the pieces. Yes I understand you wanted to be able to get a consistent test but the added weight is like comparing the grain of a bullet a 115 grain and a 140 grain have vastly different force on impact. I'm sure the majority of resins will still be affected in some way by the impact but the added weight is just too great a variable to accurately consider the durability.

[@jines1284]

How long was the post curing on these ? If someone is over curing them in post it doesn't matter water washable or not.

[@nitzerebbhead]

Sunlu tough is tough, but I find the accuracy and warping suffer to deliver that flexibility.

[@FrazzledDadsMinis]

I am here for the spectacle and fun. Well, that, and the naughty words. Great video. I really enjoyed it!

[@launchpad62]

War king miniatures has done some good stuff with mixing resins. I think he uses regular grey phrozen resin and mixes it with phrozens onyx high impact resin. I think he uses a 60/40 mix.

[@bora773]

Sorry, but your drop test is not realistic AT ALL. First of all you add a ton of extra weight, compared to the very light model itself. But even worse, the extra weight hinders the bouncing effect that would normally occur on hitting the floor. It is like testing yourself hitting the floor, but with a 200kg backpack on your back and not being able to fall on your hands or roll.

[@MufassaMike]

Yeah, you overenginerred the hell out of something that really didn’t need it. Test for the reality of most drops, knock it off a table! You’ve basically made a gravity powered hammer here.

[@chuck2703]

Guy is trying to test out CONSISTENT results not realism. Poor lad is trying to to get a result that can be replicated constantly rather than X sometimes dropped on Y from Z can result as a good resin (maybe).

[@hugheja89]

The point you’re making just proves this is worse for the mini than a regular drop would be. So it actually is a good indicator if the resin is durable. It’s like a ultra stress test

[@thejdi]

@@chuck2703 Wouldn't just using the pipe to guide the mini straight down be enough? Remove the block on the to and just use the guide plastic? Leave a gap at the bottom for the 'bounce' effect?

[@iand3lond]

​@@hugheja89 crushing instead of allowing the model to bounce can be interesting but I am not sure it is the most relevant kind of durability as ultra as the test can be

[@hawaiinshirtguy]

I assumed that water washing would be cheaper and more convenient, but disposing of the waste water led me to wash with alchohol anyway as it can either be reused or evaporated quickly.

[@CXHo-sy1xz]

Tbh the fall test was definitely more of a crush test. Realistically if you just drop it 10 times itd be enough. Fun vid tho

[@ger5956]

That drop test has a couple of major flaws, you’ve added a lot of extra mass and too constrained around the bottom of the drop. You’re absolutely correct about those two being the issue. The easy fix is remove the puck and replace with a simple pin style release or trapdoor and leave a larger gap at the bottom of the tube.

[@hughmac7423]

Cool tests.

[@FrazzledDadsMinis]

Also, next stress test should be a trebuchet launching the minis. That would be an epic video.

[@Tharukan]

Pretty sure a redesign on the drop test is necessary, unfortunally. It's not just the extra weight, though that's a pretty big factor as well. The absolute death sentence for the minis is them being fixed after the fall. This way the minis can't bounce off the floor to get rid of some of the kinetic force of the drop, thus all the energy hits the resin instead. That's not what would happen in any realistic drop in real life. I'd say just let them drop freely in the tube, maybe get a thinner tube so they can't rotate as much. Sure, you can't use the magnet as a release mechanism then, but maybe you can just 3D print a mechanical solution, like a floor you can quickly pull out? Is there a major reason you want them to drop straight and fixed like this I'm overlooking?

[@fabianbrenes6805]

The added weight is killing the test, you may want to do free fall trying to limit the bonce outcome

[@tomvdent]

JAYO Water Washable ABS-Like Resin is the best one I have found.