One of the best Neovim plugins is about to be archived.

What does this mean for many of the Neovim distributions in the short, medium and long term? Well, some changes are going to need to happen.
Links:
Github issue: github.com/jose-elias-alvarez...
efm-ls: github.com/mattn/efm-langserver
efm configs: github.com/creativenull/efmls...
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @dreamsofcode
My socials:
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / dreamsofcode_io
My Equipment:
Voice over: kit.co/dreamsofcode/voiceover
Coding: kit.co/dreamsofcode/coding

[@nomoredarts8918]

This is external dependency problem in general. If you rely too much on them, you are or will be screwed

[@rj7250a]

Meanwhile JS devs importing a library with 11 lines of code to left pad a string. Then it is removed from NPM and half of the ecosystem breaks.

[@wcrb15]

I was watching a Primeagen stream and Teej was on there while they were discussing this. Teej thanks that more people should write their code actions plugins by hand as he thinks it's pretty straightforward. I think I might pursue that route while the community figures out if there is a good alternative

[@dreamsofcode]

Thanks for sharing! I admire Teej's optimism. I think it's worthwhile to write it one or two by hand as a good way to understand what is happening internally, but I don't know if that has mass appeal to the plug and play that people desire, whilst remaining within Neovim.

[@wcrb15]

@@dreamsofcode oh absolutely! 99% of people likely won't want to write them by hand. I'm very interested to see what the Nvim distros end up landing on

[@pabloqp7929]

Just a video idea: neovim config from scratch with NO framework, just a plugin manager, a handful plugins and some LSPs

[@dreamsofcode]

This is a great video idea!

[@bombrman1994]

I vote for this, I’m considering to embark on lua dive with something fun and then come back for a video of a full tutorial to get me write my own configs from scratch

[@user-pe7gf9rv4m]

Or just use Emacs perhaps?

[@gilsson4693]

that format is yours and I LIKE it, keep it going!

[@dreamsofcode]

Thank you so much 🙏

[@typecraft_dev]

Amazing video. I didn't know about null-ls before this. thanks!

[@dreamsofcode]

Thanks, man! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@THEMithrandir09]

I've been thinking about the problem with open source funding for a while and am seriously considering starting a project to help with it after I'm done with my degree this fall - if asking around in the community yields positive responses that is. I was thinking about writing addons/plugins/functions to package managers that would query for funding status of the packages you have installed and let you rank them in a way you want, e.g. rank them by amount of funding they get, so you can fund underfunded projects you use. Then companies also could be pushed to declare that they'll distribute 1% of their revenue among the projects they use and direct funds at the projects that lack funding the most. There could be other ways to rank where you should put your money to, e.g. track usage locally somehow. This would need a lot of planning though, e.g. build a public database of funding data that projects that want to participate need to make public and transparent(which in part already happens with stuff like github sponsors) and build infrastructure and probably also payment processing to make it more convenient. Anyway I plan to put a first draft of the idea out there early next year(if nobody has started with it yet by then) for people to discuss and chip in. This only makes sense if people want this. It would make donating to open source projects more convenient and the money would fund projects like null-ls where it wasn't sustainably as a hobby but if it were funded enough maybe the maintainer would've continued.

[@teleprint-me]

What we really need is a distributed platform that allows p2p payments whether via stripe or something else. Most people won't give donations and there are more than enough examples to prove this. There's no platform (that I know of) that allows software developers to post code, manage it, distribute it, and accept payments/donations easily for products and or services. This is a niche gap that currently exists. I've thought about it for awhile and have found very few or little resources that actually acted on this. I think even acting as a platform that provides this type of service may even be profitable as you could take a percentage of the revenue to support the development and maintenance of it (think steam, but for software developers). Maybe I'm just unaware of any alternatives (it's possible), but I think this would be one of those no-brainer ideas that are just difficult to execute and would require a certain level of desire and commitment to it.

[@tyu3456]

I'd love to follow this - can you share your Github handle or similar?

[@THEMithrandir09]

I wouldn't want to earn any money from this besides covering my own expenses, so I'd fund the project itself just the same as the other projects it would help support. Payment is difficult enough as is, because it eather means trusting the repo maintaines to give out the funds to all contributors fairly or having all contributors that want to get funds give their payment info directly and automatically calculating a percentage (which can only go wrong imho because estimating efforts is a pain).

[@THEMithrandir09]

I wouldn't want to promote my own stuff with this so I'd probably create a new handle when I get to it/think of a name. I'll reply again here once it exists - pinky promise :)

[@noomondai]

Thanks for this video, it helps so much with my understanding with the nv ecosystem, which can be opaque for new comers

[@RuRu-vm6yw]

A new idea for a vod could be to show how to effectively add support for multiple languages in neovim and make it a clean and extendable fashion Like combining, go, python and rust in neovim setup :)

[@nug203]

noooo. I just finished working through your rust and python setup videos and was about to do the C++ setup when I saw this. I guess i'll be redoing them all in the near future. I look forward to your videos holding my hand on what to change ;) Completely understandable from the null-ls dev to be wrapping up though

[@dreamsofcode]

Thanks! I'm still waiting to see what comes out. Not sure what I'll use as a replacement for the next video as the community still hasn't really decided on what to do next! I'll definitely be doing a video about how to migrate in the future though :)

[@frusadev]

​@@dreamsofcodeThere's a plugin called none-ls, it's the same as null-ls but maintained by the community.

[@tiagodev5838]

Sincerely appreciate your content mate! 🎉

[@dreamsofcode]

I'm glad to hear that!

[@ovidiu_nl]

For people who are interested in a deeper analysis, ThePrimagen has a video on his channel in which he discusses this with TJ.

[@exvimmer]

Use none-ls. It's a maintained fork.

[@CrispySpicyChickenWings]

Looking forward for your migration video from null-ls to ALE or efm etc 😢

[@niksingh710]

wow......... A great plugin is going away..... m more curious is why the plugin dev is not using neovim as his primary ide? what is causing him to not use neovim.

[@wondays654]

maybe he now uses helix. Some people switch from using neovim to helix for a couple of months and like it enough to stay.

[@wondays654]

I don't think reshooting the previous videos is necessary. Might just point it out in a new video like "instead of null-ls we will be using [[insert package]] which does [[functionality]] by [[how functionality is done compared to null-ls]]". Just a 30 sec to 1-minute mention in any of your new config videos is enough.

[@dreamsofcode]

I agree. This is probably the best approach moving forward! Thank you for sharing! 😊

[@Montegasppa]

Man! I’s been a while since you’ve become my NvChad settings tutorial! 😆 Without null-ls, I fully depend on you to set a new plugin. 😬 Alas, it’ll be this way ’till I’ve got confidence to configure NeoVim myself again. 🤷 Sorry… too much pressure, I know.

[@raidensama1511]

Well said! 👍

[@dreamsofcode]

Thank you!

[@guavavodka]

Do you have a link to your neovim config? I like your status bar and icons.. and theme.

[@Redyf]

F null-ls 😭

[@jonapoka7109]

I've fallen asleep to these videos for 2 weeks now. You should make a programming podcast!

[@dreamsofcode]

🤣 I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not haha.

[@josemonge4604]

We probably need another kind of licensing or model to help open source contributors and developers working on these kind of packages, so that they can hire people to aid them with the responsibility of delivering frequently.

[@JayHiza]

I'm a little bit confused, considering I'm just beginning my journey with nvim, but doesn't Mason include lsp support out of the box? It's maybe not as complete and convenient as null-ls, but isn't it doing roughly the same thing? I'm likely misunderstanding something though.

[@dreamsofcode]

Mason is more for just downloading tools, which works with lsp servers. However not all lsp servers have as good a range of formatters or linters and there are plenty of other tools that don't provide LSP than null-ls works with. Go formatters are a big one, such as golines or goimports.

[@chenle02]

Very sad to know that the dev for null-ls quitted nvim. Very curious about which editor he/she uses now.

[@x_Il_x]

I had been moving from ALE -> efm -> null-ls and null-ls has the best solution and user experience for latest nvim. I would hope someone can fork null-ls and take it over. Also TBH, I do not enjoy the frequency core team updates their API.

[@willadams6217]

What are people using it for though? I remember using it to get eslint working before a lsp was available for that, but there are so many lsp's now I can't see why null-ls is needed? For formatting there is formatter.nvim which works great.

[@dreamsofcode]

For me it's mainly formatting and linting. There's some linters I use that aren't part of any LSP base kit, although you're correct, this is becoming less and less. I shall check out formatter.nvim! That looks promising as well, thank you for suggesting it.

[@vhoyer]

What's the problem with coc.nvim?

[@abuk95]

Well, it will still be possible to use null-ls and it will work just fine for some time, even when it is archived. Or am I wrong about that?

[@dreamsofcode]

Yeah, it will be possible for some time, although as jose mentions it'll likely not be a long time due to break changes in neovim.

[@Zihad]

What do you use to edit your videos?

[@dreamsofcode]

I use Davinci Resolve and my own custom effects package will I'll hopefully be making available soon! (Once I've got everything sorted!) I'll do a community post once it's ready!

[@zizlog_sound]

Without checking, I reckon there are several forks yet and eventually, s/o will continue it.

[@Claudiu_]

I'm just starting with neovim, and I have the feeling that is like buying an old car, and I have first to become a mechanic because I have to make it from parts, and get ready for it to break anytime.

[@pbnjdev]

(neo)vim already has the facilities and APIs needed to run linters/formatters. For instance, one can implement an autocmd BufWritePre to execute any number of formatters & linters on the current buffer. Alternatively, one can implement a compiler plugin to hook external tools into `makeprg` and `errorformat` to show results in the signcolumn and quickfix/location lists (or in neovim's diagnostic). I think TJ summarized it well when he said that people use neovim distributions as a stop-gap measure to not have to tinker with their editor, but (neo)vim almost require that you know (or are willing to) learn how things work under-the-hood. Users who do not want to personalize their development environments can use other editors that are more "turnkey".

[@a_maxed_out_handle_of_30_chars]

aah, another one bites the dust :(

[@dreamsofcode]

😔

[@callyral]

what about nvim-lspconfig and Mason

[@catoflado4977]

Make a video about how to replace null.ls

[@g-ay]

open source is open source. there is no solution for a non-problem. these are the fundamental consequences to being open source and it is perfectly fine.

[@pedro_alonso]

WAIT WHAT

[@dreamsofcode]

Yah :(

[@CameronZemek]

Nvchad uses null-ls . Perhaps you disabled it but its out of box config does. As builds on lazy vim best I can tell

[@dreamsofcode]

Huh interesting 🤔. I checked out the source code and couldn't find any reference to it but perhaps I made a mistake in my grepping!

[@CameronZemek]

@@dreamsofcode I see if I follow your videos and don't use the default custom config it asks you, then you don't get null-ls. Its part of the custom config defaults if you choose Y

[@CameronZemek]

@@dreamsofcode I see if I follow your videos and don't use the default custom config it asks you, then you don't get null-ls from NvChad. Its part of the custom config defaults if you choose Y

[@IncomingLegend]

gotta appreciate VSCode, I don't have any of these headaches and everything just works, without having to write nonsense configuration files in Lua...

[@vanvothe4817]

I haven't used null_ls in a long time, but Makefile might be the most stable solution I know

[@Handlebrake2]

Plug-ins? Never heard of them!

[@MH_VOID]

Laughs in Emacs

[@ShadoFXPerino]

Perhaps Lua is a good language for throwaway scripts, but not ideal for any significant software architecture.

[@djsnipa1]

Isn’t neovim written in lua? It’s a significant piece of software imho

[@ShadoFXPerino]

​@@djsnipa1 It's 24% Lua. Using a unsuitable language doesn't mean software development is impossible, it just means that you get less features per dev hour spent.

[@NostraDavid2]

And here is one of the reasons I've stopped using Neovim: It's instability - and I'm talking "API stability" here, in the sense of "Debian Unstable". I'm aware it doesn't crash. Due to instability, I keep having to fix things I don't have to fix with ye olde vim. Every half year there's a new plugin manager, plugins being deprecated due to a new version coming out, etc. It's just too tiring for me, ATM.

[@chenle02]

We need a stable version

[@n.a.s1096]

Time to revist Helix

[@dreamsofcode]

I'm excited to do a video on it!

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

:u

I believe that the maintainers of OSS should be paid for their hard work. I also believe that crypto provides the technology needed to make that happen. All that is needed is a shift in mindset…

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

F

[@hoangquocnguyen8106]

First !

[@Ashaiksameer]

Where is java😢😢

[@teamruddy611]

What even is "Neovim" ??? From what i can tell it's a code editor, but why don't you use the much better Visual Studio Code. (I don't like regular Visual Studio though) You could maintain a fork of it yourself though if you are really sad about this.

[@dreamsofcode]

Neovim is the most loved editor by developers for the past three years in a row. Neovim is still fine, it was just an awesome package that is being archived.

[@wolfeygamedev1688]

The answer is called not open source. Free labor cringe. Also vscode with vim bindings works ight for me.

[@tomasagustinbenik38]

So your answer to the problem is putting a paywall to the binary and prohibit access to the source code? That doesn't adress the issue, I'm afraid.

[@wolfeygamedev1688]

@@tomasagustinbenik38 Keep depending on plugins that deprecate themselves then, and spend more time setting up configuration and finding replacements then actually just writing code.