One Will Break The Imperium. One Will Save The Imperium | Genefather Review

[@joshgladfelter9597]

I love this episode. I’m a huge Fabius be fan. I’ve really been getting into your channel recently. Let’s be honest, KZbin is inundated with Warhammer channels, but you’re doing something different in the space. It’s a lot of fun to watch.

[@ag3nt_green]

I agree. It's not just a lore dump. He's talking about the current developments in the lore and he fleshes out the setting in an engaging way. Its makes the setting feel alive and evolving instead of it being like history class.

[@joshgladfelter9597]

@@ag3nt_green absolutely. Don’t get me wrong… There are a lot of Warhammer channels that I thoroughly enjoy that do just that… But it’s nice to approach the same stories in settings from different angles and perspectives.

[@ag3nt_green]

​@@joshgladfelter9597I've probably watched at least one video of most lore channels and have a few I watch regularly and they are fantastic. I owe most of my knowledge of the setting to them. Sandman talks about a lot of the nuance and contextual details and interactions of these characters. It adds a layer of depth I don't see anywhere else honestly.

[@joshgladfelter9597]

@@ag3nt_green sometimes you just want a big Mac so you get some major kill… Sometimes you want some dry aged ribeye steak… So you get some baldermort… gotta keep the pallet guessing

[@SeaBass215AM]

@@ag3nt_greenFor sure. It a forum for us guys to gossip and joke about the 40K setting like old friends. How will Rowbutt react to his brother's Johnson? ; )

[@melosolmusic]

I believe that Alpha Primus is in fact…Alphar… [TRANSMISSION TERMINATED…ORDO HERETICUS DISPATCHED]

[@benmuir6570]

Omegon

[@AzrealMaximus]

😂😂😂😂

[@Xhumed]

Alpha Primus is a Squat? ...oh, I guess we can say that, now that LoV are a thing. Maybe they'll be a reasonably priced Ad Mech chara

[@Mathis37]

39:40 or Alpha Primus' soul is loosely attached so it can be pushed out of the way if a very powerful soul was in need of a powerful body because its current body has been sitting around for 10k years.

[@TheCorrodedMan]

Oh…OH

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

Daemonic possession time!

[@Argumemnon]

@@PoolNoodleGundam More like, imperial possession.

[@jerethgryphon4244]

That's a interesting idea

[@MrRhysWalters]

Linking up with The King in Yellow?

[@Digimastertwo]

The preview image reads as "BILF", not "BILE" because of the little time indicator in the corner, and this amuses me.

[@UrsusSuperior44]

"Cawl vs Basilisk I'd Like to Fabricate" A moving story of a craftsman finding peace in work regarding simpler projects of his organization

[@angelotana3040]

Bile I'd like to F**k

[@WilliamDeemer]

Will GW ever address these popular topics like the dark age of tech, the second and 11th Legion or go in depth about the great crusade ?great video

[@SandmanofTerra]

It's tough to say tbh, because I think it would really divide the community. Some people would love that but many oppose that kind of story progression

[@herbertvonbismarck8303]

If I’m being honest, they’ll never got into detail about the missing legions but they’ll likely go more into the dark age of tech

[@Cloudy_Jones]

They could at least say what they did to be erased from history, like if Horus is still acknowledged what could those Legions done to warrant that extreme of a punishment.

[@Archon3960]

If it sells well enough, GW will be more than ready to throw such a bombshell - especially if Space Marines are involved. (I wish this was all just memes. B/)

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

Loved this book. Lowkey a huge fan of Porter, the way she fights is actually really interesting and that's high praise for something in book medium. She and Alpha Primus need official art already. Lastly, love Bile coming out on top. I also really liked how we've developed a scientific love triangle between Cawl, Trazyn, and Bile.

[@mattmark94]

Porter sounds like a Mary Sue.

[@jonathansmillie542]

Why because its a g-g-girl?

[@AveSicarius]

​@@mattmark94 Compared to the Astartes who fight literal Primarch level threats and come out on top because they are so good? Porter isn't really a Mary Sue, it's a creation of the guy who recreated the basis of the Primarch project which nobody, not even the Emperor, managed to do after the Spreading of the Primarch's, of course it's going to be strong given that the ascended Fabius (the guy who's now a hivemind entity with millennia of experience in genetic engineering) poured his entire knowledge and resources into. The Gene Hounds (i.e. First Men) could already take down Astartes pretty handily, and were dangerous enough that even very experienced and skilled Traitor Astartes were wary of them. Porter is the result of decades of New Man research and experiments with Astartes Geneseed, the Primarch's themselves, and Xenos technology. A Mary Sue has no setup, is perfect for no reason, and is basically a purely narrative device. Porter is both narratively set-up over many pieces of lore and is very much canon feasible given what else Bile has done. A female character being strong is not a Mary Sue just because they are these things. Hell, Porter is FAR from the most powerful female character in the setting as the Phoenix Lord's, Erda, and a bunch of characters are far more dangerous.

[@LifeDrinker0]

Dr R you rock man you have strong compassion for what you do for animals which means helping life your awesome 😊👍

[@drrhino_]

Aw thank you! Someone's gotta stick up for em, may as well be us!

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

Keep up the good work! Rhinos are cool as fuck! They're armored assault unicorns. And they're cute! @@drrhino_

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

Porter’s abilities remind me of the “no-gene” from the Dine series. This was genetic trait which caused its bearer to be imperceptible to prescience. Given how dangerous psyker and the warp are, a genetic trait which makes you imperceptible to warp entities and welders would be a huge advantage as a survival trait for Bile’s new men. In fact if Bile views Space Marines as a failure because they are innately corruptible by the Warp then it makes a lot of sense he would strive to develop a new form of humanity which was incorruptible because it is invisible to Warp entities.

[@krodlori2118]

the time in the bottom corner made the thumbnail look like Cawl v BILF lol

[@garrisonv2]

Dr Rhino should write the “Clone”-grim sequels…. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@drrhino_]

My fan fiction powers are awakening

[@Blackcat70_]

Very much a rookie in wh.. this channel is really cool for explaining things to us literal servitors in the 40k universe.

[@SandmanofTerra]

More to come!

[@armyfirefighter]

Been binge watching/listening to your vids to get caught up on the lore after the fight on the Vengeful Spirit - and how that book as changed things as you said. This talk and a few other books clues just lead me to something. It seems pretty clear that GW is really focused on the restoration of souls, after a few decades of destroying souls. In the "old lore" with the focus on the Aeldari losing their souls to Slaanesh, with the Necrontyr losing their souls to the C'Tan. The Emperor ending Horus's soul. The Emperor's own soul being trapped on the Golden Throne requiring the souls of all those psykers per day to sustain him. A couple of decades about the loss of souls to, for lack of better terms, the Dark Gods. And now over the last few years there is this turn. The Necrons beginning experiments on restoring their souls using Space Marines as vessels or templates to engineer to handle the restoration. Restoring Guilliman with the help of the Aeldari. The Primaris project. These talks between Bile and Cawl and what is Alpha Primus actually? And now the fact that the Emperor said that no soul is truly destroyed, not even Horus (not even the Necrons??). That he Emperor's soul is split in two and needs to be restored. Cawl having been told by the Emperor that it will look like he has betrayed him but he hasn't. Just a thought - but what if Cawl is trying to clone the Emperor or rebuild a body for the Emperor. The Drukhari have the technology to do just that and have tried in their own attempt to build their own version of the Golden Throne. That was destroyed for its heresy, of course. But what if Cawl is trying to duplicate that experiment - and clone an empty vessel for the Emperor. Alpha Primus could be a "proof of concept." It would explain Bile knowing what it is and how it is just a fraction of the power contained in those genes. A loosely bound soul that could be pushed aside. Cawl had access to every genetic template of the Primarch's.... and the Emperor perhaps? Bile has cloned all of them and found the results wanting. Perhaps Cawl is finding the same thing with trying to learn how to clone the Emperor. The Emperor cannot return to the physical plane without a physical form, and what is left of the throne is beyond hope for half a perpetual to repair. But what about a clone body? A shell that could have a temporary soul? Cloning the Emperor like that would be the worst heresy imaginable to both the Imperium and the Mechanicus. The Drukhari have tried. It would look like Cawl had betrayed the Emperor, but he has not. And perhaps maybe turning to Bile for help? Time travelling to get the Emperor's DNA pre-fight with Horus? Making a deal with Trayzen to trade work to restore Necron souls for help restoring the Emperor, perhaps by getting technology to use or access the shard of the Void Dragon inside Mars as the Void Dragon was the Master of the Material Plane? The Void Dragon was said to be able to create unrefined blackstone, refine it, and use it. Perhaps this temporary soul in a clone of the Emperor and messing around the the C'Tan could give a new pathway for the Dark King to emerge again as the 5th Chaos God? Sorry for the long post as there are so many ways to do this with the Starchild storyline coming and these experiments from Cawl and contact from Bile. With all the other disperate hints - I just can't get away from the thought that Cawl is trying to clone the Emperor.

[@KindredChord]

I really enjoyed that discussion! Thanks for all the awesome information

[@peterga3658]

Genefather is now one of my favorite books. BC the great work too.. i dont know why rewatching these streams over and over again doeasnt gets boring .

[@SandmanofTerra]

Youre the best Peter. Streaming should resume next week! Just have a couple of video deadlines to finish up first

[@Argumemnon]

The more I look into the lore of 40k, the more infinite it seems. I feel that if I look too far, I'll fall to chaos or something.

[@TheKnizzine]

Alpha Primus is either meant to inherit Cawl the way Cawl does others so his knowledge can carry on in something that can compete with a Custode or even primarch or a shell to insert Big E or the Star Childs soul in.

[@4englishlies875]

I can not bring myself to play the game, but boy oh boy, I do love the stories and fan stories and art. Maybe later in time i can bring myself to the game part but...

[@kevinduggan201]

I like the idea that the underlying code of Cawl and Guilliman inferiors were nkt created by Cawl but were discovered and what either side is talking too is either a dark age AI system that is quantum entangled and mailulating both sides, or an extension of the actual machine god from the golden age, and is again manipulating both sides for its own ends

[@SurfRlyeh]

Honestly wasn't familiar with Dr. Rhino (somehow) before this and loved the discussion between the two of you.

[@crazylegz324]

Just read the book and I’m wondering if when the emperor told Cawl ‘you will think you have betrayed me but you will not’ has anything to do with Bile and the favor he intends to collect for sparing him and Alpha Primus

[@francescobianchi595]

In the warp that yt lore videos are, your channel is blessed by the light of the Emperor

[@SandmanofTerra]

Thanks brother

[@steven1303ss]

What if Fabius begrudgingly provides Abaddon with a primaris like space marine but he builds in a defect as to sabotage chaos? Remember the defect in the original Emperors Children gene seed that was ultimately killing the legion? I believe Fabius still carries that defect right? Thats why he keep cloning himself? So what if he implants that into his "gift" to Abaddon? Might be something he can show Cawl or even Bobby G to help his case to rejoining the imperium. Just theorizing though please correct me if im wrong

[@azkrouzreimertz9784]

After all the fucked up shit bile has done i dont think there is any salvation for him, even if the big G says yes the emperor wont be so forgiving.

[@ChimpFromSpace]

Not sure they'd look past his "internship" with a certain xenos faction.

[@Archon3960]

Cawl has genuine empathy at least. Bile doesn't. Just look at how differently they treat Alpha Primus: Bile only sees him as a masterwork like he sees his "daughter" Porter, Cawl sees him as his _son._ :/

[@AxolotlInMC]

​@@Archon3960 Bile definitely isn't without empathy. If you read the trilogy, you'll see that he treats his creations like his children, and shows genuine concern for their happiness. And he's kind to people who treat him with respect. A testament to this is in Genefather, when he doesn't kill Alpha Primus, even though he could have hurt and distract Cawl by it, and rid the Imperium of their most powerful Astartes.

[@AxolotlInMC]

​@@azkrouzreimertz9784 I believe Big E would give way less f than Big G.

[@lXenn0nl]

I always thought Alpha Primus was a heavily experimented/altered Nykona sharrowkyn. Due to the nature of how he was discovered by Cawl with what he was protecting and how similar his astral projection is to Corax's

[@bengeorge9063]

Me too! But no one else seems to think that. I always thought Cawl used him as a guinea pig since he was comatose with the Sangprimus mortem.

[@galedex5661]

If Cawl goes back in time, then i guess he randomly meets Trazyn because why not.

[@Nagah_]

the thumbnail with the video time in the corner make this read "CAWL VS BILF".

[@chrisstover585]

Tee hee. You said “do do”

[@Archon3960]

"GW writes stories they think we fans like." Oh, that explains the state of Eldar lore. (Kinda.) x) Really eager to see what will happen between Fabius Bile and Belisarius Cawl in the future here! It's gonna be great! And I want Trazyn to get involved too. B)

[@jellydamgood]

Does Alpha Primus have the primarch Warp JuJu?

[@SandmanofTerra]

Not quite to that level I think, but getting there

[@jellydamgood]

@@SandmanofTerra He better get it fast or the Talon of Horus bout to claim a third primarch body.

[@Archon3960]

He doesn't have the juju. He has _all twenty_ jujus. 😎

[@Andersp90]

Mr Sandman, did you follow the discussions on the now defunkt forum "the first expedition" run by the former lead editor of the HH series, Laurie Goulding? Many of the retcons to the siege of terra/horus vs emps were pretty much spoiled back then by Laurie. Mabye you you could use the wayback machine, or some similar site to go back and use the "spoilers" to tack about what has happened - and what might happen - based on them? - and thx for yet another great episode. :)

[@SandmanofTerra]

Oh interesting! Have you got a link? I'll take a look

[@TheNazradin]

what order do I read all the books with cawl? trying to find info on the black library books content is impossible. Seen they don't publish much on Amazon and almost zero as ebooks.

[@SandmanofTerra]

So these would cover his main story. Wolfsbane Fall of Cadia Avenging Son Dark imperium Belisarius Cawl the Great Work Genefather

[@TheNazradin]

@@SandmanofTerra thanks

[@christiancowles9436]

Writing about high-speed physics and time travel can work, IF you are humble enough to read some Wikipedia articles or talk to a science advisor. For a planet to be moving fast enough that it only experienced 60 years over the past 60 million years, it would need to be traveling 99.99999999995% the speed of light. That has some consequences. 1) Any mission deployed to his planet will also be slowed by 1/1,000,000, so a 1-day mission would take 2740 years. 2) Trying to land on a planet moving this speed will require accelerating your entry vehicle to a matching speed (which is harder than it sounds). 3) this plant will be within the radiation zone of the black hole, assuming material is being pulled into the black hole (which is a lot more dangerous than it sounds). 4) The gravitational affects of the black hole would shred the planet because of the difference in pull from the nearside to the far side of the planet. There are more consequences, all of which require careful understanding and application of real-world science to navigate.

[@adventuresinthedark]

This is my First book i listened to and i really appreciated it though I had no idea about the new men it felt great going back and reading the trilogy though it felt frustrating the sudden leep from the last one to now it was good

[@salihnu]

Fabius Bile at this point deserves his own Codex

[@zooeyglass7643]

Something I think you may have missed is that in "The Great Work" when they looked at alternatives of Alpha Primus he showed up as 20 marines. That includes the 2 missing primarchs.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Yeah that's pretty cool. We do talk about that here

[@RSBurgener]

I thought Melvin, The Very Elder was awesome. That's pretty much how it is for me all the time. When someone annoys me, my grandfather's geneseed triggers: "you should kick his ass for that! Give the cashier five bucks and put a roll of dimes in your fist" And I'm like "first of all, Pawpaw, I'm 5'4". Secondly, it's 2023. Men don't just fight all the time anymore. I could get sued for everything I have!"

[@jackp492]

We think alike, It reminds me of what happens to alia in dune, her personality gets overpowered by the baron

[@unbreakablelag]

I think Cawl Inferior is being influenced by the Dragon. Cawl did spend 100000 years on Mars after all.

[@IjaxS]

15:10 Would love to know more about this "Porter" woman (don't know how it's spelt). Tried to look her up among the New Men in various lore websites but got nothing.

[@SandmanofTerra]

I'll try and talk about her more this week!

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

​@@SandmanofTerra yyyyeeeEEEES

[@adventuresinthedark]

​@@SandmanofTerrathank goodness she. Is so cool

[@CputtockDthomson]

Fabius Bile and Belasarius Cawl are interesting folks for sure. How's the video on T'au Ethereal Aun Shi coming along btw. You said you would be doing it

[@DocBravo]

It was a minor throwaway subplot with a Titian vs Lord Discordant Chaos Lord…did Thrule die?

[@thegreatwhitegoat2882]

Yahhh number 1 and there's no audio for sandman. Nvm lmao

[@Antilluminati]

Angron, cause he's angry

[@brandondabbs2593]

Fabius is the extreme equivalent of a double platinum rockbstar who gets bored and decides to do humabitarian projects. Holy shit hes Bono.

[@danko90]

Are you planning to make a video about graels? It would be a fascinating topic!

[@sejimun3821]

Love the conflict where Bile wants to create new better HUMANS, but is forced to make better space marines for a guy who hates humans and wants to extinct them..

[@charlesballiet7074]

personally the bile trillogy is my favorit of the new lore too bad the author no longer works for GW

[@danielbob2628]

So, how are blanks affected by the Pariah Nexus? Do we know?

[@Dingusmaningus]

Alpha primus is alpharious

[@cathiradford8208]

nice

[@LutherMahoney]

Genefather was way too short of a read. I hope Bile really becomes a problem for Cawl if for the next book.

[@matthewstegall7921]

Bill calls a demon a figment of his imagination: cool bad ass atheist moment. Fulgrim basically does the same with a sword: Mocked into oblivion. 😂😂😂

[@edwells4769]

Chaos trying to get Primaris is a stupid storyline in itself.

[@nomedeuusuario]

I realy hope that no time-travel fuckeri comes into 40k...

[@forgebreaker7752]

I've been working on my own chapter's lore and I've not read this novel but this sort of justifies the ideas I had. Brief synopsis: -a ship full of Iron Warriors try a risky warp jump while fighting the Hrud, a combination of the Hrud's powers of entropy and a blind jump send them forward in time and far out on the rim of the galaxy, essentially cutting them off from the imperium before the heresy starts -they end up in a system with lost human civilizations who have regressed and no longer understand their technology, seeming like cultures of the middle ages living in a crumbling techno necropolis - these cultures will be shaped by the marines and used for recruitment. -a lost lab of Cawl's contains IV legion geneseed and the warsmiths use the lab to produce primaris marines (with or without long-range contact with Cawl... maybe Cawl's interested in their success) -they either hunt fabius, find one of his labs (already used the found a lab line so I did want there to be a run-in) or perhaps even Cawl leads the marines to find a clone of their primarch, and he (Per2rabo, if you will) leads them from the shadows. The Perturabo clone wrestles with his own issues, wondering if he will turn against humanity too, learning scattered info of the heresy and the fate of his father and brothers - all the while striving to improve his chapter, protect the humans, and master technologies and crafts old and new.

[@SandmanofTerra]

That sounds pretty sweet

[@therevahchist2790]

I thought Alpha Primus was a clone of the emperor.

[@RichardRider-hp4rp]

WTF

[@GotrekGurnisson]

Theoretically a pure seed would be something between a greyknight and a custode rught?

[@PlayNiceFolks]

Cawl wouldn't have called him "son" if that were the case

[@deathwatch962]

Idiot. 😊

[@briantalmage2041]

No he surely is not. He is. Is his his best take on a primarch with out any the warp powers Emperor had stolen from molac!

[@melaniabladeofmiquella]

I thought this said Grandfather review 😂

[@lilturbo2657]

14:35 sound like the female titan

[@Reddotzebra]

Epimetheus is also a reference to the mythological figure of the same name. Remember Prometheus, the Titan of Foresight that stole fire from the gods? Epimetheus is his brother, the Titan of Hindsight. Who gave all the cool gifts of flight and fur and really big teeth and claws to the animals, and then had nothing left to give humanity. He's the reason his bro decided to pull that stunt.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Rhino milk is best milk

[@mattmark94]

Porter sounds like a Mary Sue.

[@andresperedo1275]

Not really. Her power comes from the thousends of years of experience that Bile has, so it is perfectly and totally justified.

[@docvaliant721]

Bequin aka beta is a Mary sue.

[@adrianwain]

The gift was a Chaos Android from Space Crusade....

[@tonnehead777]

Kwo isn't really much of a 40k grim dark thing, he's just 'inspired' by Duncan Idaho from Herberts Dune. That part felt like a pretty lazy copy and paste to me. The book overall was ok though.

[@Scufflegrit]

Qvo has been in every Belisarius Cawl book. He’s not at all like Duncan Idaho beyond the ghola bit.

[@tonnehead777]

@@Scufflegrit That's abit like saying that Navigators arn't like Guild Navigators, apart from the navigating bit.

[@Archon3960]

Warhamler using copy-pasted elements!? Nonesense! 😂

[@andresperedo1275]

Not really. In any case Dune was probably the main inspiration for 40k. Dune and Starship troopers

[@whisped8145]

I understand there being fans of Bile. But actual fans of Cawl are a thing? If that is true, the bar for writing quality needed is so low that it explains everything else. If this sells, thus is accepted, then everything is.

[@andresperedo1275]

What's your point? I actually like Cawl a lot.

[@endymionmikel4022]

The current fabricator gen is DEAD

[@SandmanofTerra]

We spoke about that in this very video

[@ImperatorSomnium]

most popular characters? Fabius BILE? the annoying old grandpa that think he is better than everyone? just a stupid, poor and unintelligent boomer, while Cawl is a genius chad

[@SandmanofTerra]

I thought everyone loved the mad scientists!

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

Everyone I know loves Bile. Fabulous Bill. He's the only guy with a genuine solution to humanity's imminent doom but will always lack the resources to employ it. It's a great core character concept.

[@Archon3960]

​@@PoolNoodleGundamThing is, from what I've read, Bile wants to _replace_ humanity with his New Men, whikeCawl wants to _save_ the actual template. They have the same goal, but different ways of achieving it. :/

[@ChromisPasqueflowerBowerbird]

Hope for Clonegrim?

[@SandmanofTerra]

Not from this book I'm afraid. But you never know!