Is Geometry Dash Reaching The Skill Limit?

[@31pyrex]

People thought SWI would be the skill limit years ago and now it's out of the top 20. Hell, if the game lasts another decade, we might not see a skill limit until 2033.

[@Kalervoo]

E

[@shadowknight00M]

2.2 is the peak i'm afraid.

[@lilysamvelian9970]

I think GD is actually expanding the limits of out skill

[@mister03_tr]

With the new mode and camera movements the skill gap will be huge from 2.1 ...

[@yodaas7902]

There is no skill limit as long as there are active players

[@FormerlyReshiramNowGetIced]

"Imagine Slaughterhouse but 3 minutes long..." You just described GRIEF perfectly

[@kittinanpakboon8129]

True

[@orochi2488]

Grief entering in scenary

[@David280GG]

Mibe olz

[@wantu7816]

There are like 2 pr 3 slaughterhouse superfast wave parts there

[@plasmakitten4261]

It's such a shame that Return 0 was cancelled, because npesta said that he wanted to verify it because he wanted to push a meta of longer levels, and right now it seems like that's going to be the only real way of pushing difficulty forward at the top of the list because how on earth do you make gameplay harder than Acheron and Avernus that's possible?

[@smallw2003]

INJURY is 34 seconds long and harder than Acheron, and KYWY (a guy who's hardest is poltergeist) has 86% on an undecorated version. If he beats it he will have made the largest jump in GD History Tidal Wave isn't super long, but at least it's a break from the 1 minute top 1s

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@smallw2003 ok well 34 seconds is challenge length. At that point it's SO short that it loops back around into being possible to condense difficulty further because after enough attempts you'll just randomly luck into it. Same deal with VSC which if it were Acheron's length would probably be extremely impossible.

[@Giggle_Pig]

@@smallw2003 I N J U R Y isnt top 1, its top 15.

[@millenial8212]

​@@smallw2003I N J U R Y prob isnt top 1, and if it is, its just skill based

[@ytkerfuffles6429]

its uncancelled in 2.2

[@SolarBeam04]

I think the trend for harder levels going forward is definitely an increase in length, an abuse of the ship and wave gamemodes, since they have more skill expression, and potentially the use of randomized gameplay, so that muscle memory alone won't carry you to victory, you'll also need sight reading abilities

[@twinziest]

and then a 50% chance to die at the end 💀

[@AnalogNoise]

ahh i love rng based gameplay

[@nintySW]

​@@AnalogNoiserng doesnt have to be a bad thing if all the options are similar in difficulty and propperly sight readable

[@AnalogNoise]

@@nintySW true, but i wasn't referring only to geometry dash

[@nintySW]

@@AnalogNoise I mean if we're taking into account non gd games, rng gets even better, think rougelikes and stuff, or npc ai. your issue is with bad game design, not rng.

[@crapyads9014]

remember, no matter how hard the level is, you can create a harder version of it by maing the level longer

[@Rigatoni_Joe]

Just make Tidal Wave but you have to beat Stereo Madness at the end lol

[@ImmenseBRPlayer2852]

​@@Rigatoni_Joethat makes it harder by 1.00001x.

[@Rigatoni_Joe]

@@ImmenseBRPlayer2852 yeah which means it’s harder

[@realchiknuggets]

@@ImmenseBRPlayer2852 now, Back On Track on the other hand... 👀

[@centri_3]

@@realchiknuggetshow about dry out 😱😱😱😱

[@RandomTangent5263]

I believe Geometry Dash is not reaching the skill limit just yet. We’ve already seen what talented players have done over the past years breaking the skill limit time and time again. I believe that players will continue to break even more limits to what the game has to offer. Years ago, Bloodbath was #1. Years later, we have Acheron, Arcturus, Firework, Slaughterhouse, Kyouki, and much more. And I believe in another 5 years or so, there will be even more tops 1 much harder than the one we have now. It’s only a matter of time. We just have to wait for players to improve even more, which I’m confident they will. Also, 2.2 might motivate some players to play Geometry Dash more due to the new features. And those new features will definitely be used in upcoming extreme demons to make them even harder. So in my opinion, no. I do not think Geometry Dash will be ending anytime soon.

[@WaltzCapybara]

I can almost guarantee that every single recent tab level is just gonna be the sound effect trigger spammed all over the place with the fart sound effect and a 4x speed at the very beginning.

[@SirSalami]

Honestly I think geometry dash isn’t going to get boring soon. 2.2 is going to add much more ways to grind the game and I think that will last a while. Also the hardest levels only make the level fun to watch for most players, maybe people would start grinding stars again. We don’t know what could happen with a community like this. But no matter what happens the GD community isn’t dying any time soon

[@The4gamers5885]

Another thing to mention about the amount of new top 10's slowing down, back during the Tartarus era, the top 5 (Tartarus, The Golden, Zodiac, Kenos, Crimson Planet) stayed completely the same for an entire *year* before SWI was verified, but as soon as Slaughterhouse was verifed the enitre top ten got a bunch new levels (slh, fw, arcturus, oblivion, hard machine, sakupen circles) I feel like the demonlist seems to be going through a cycle of: New top one pushes the skill limit players improve new, harder levels get added the list gets harder to keep up with repeat

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

i feel like the best player spot in gd is kind of loose. every demon is unique in that regardless of who plays it, it will inevitably take hundreds of thousands of attempts to master. there is no global skill ceiling in gd other than every demon's OWN skill ceiling.

[@Ramp4ge28]

Just remember demon park, 10 years ago, an easy demon was an almost imposible level, imagine now

[@OniLink]

We’re entering in the 3min+ meta. Otherwise it will become very unfun to beat new top levels. This concern motivated me to build TW

[@SolarBeam04]

Agreed, longer fairer gameplay > short unfair gameplay, just look at Avernus and what happened to it for example

[@taffuh]

​​@@SolarBeam04Yep. No one even made list percentage yet to this day because of how bad it was.

[@heitorcar-geometrydash8362]

@@taffuh "because of how bad it was" more like "because of how hard it is for a top 2"

[@taffuh]

@@heitorcar-geometrydash8362 if that was the case, then why does everyone try to do acheron instead

[@exiled_shadegd]

@@taffuhfor the glory and stuff, and kinda for the funny because Avernus having no victors is funny

[@dragobro0456]

2-player levels should get their own list

[@snowyx_]

W

[@dragobro0456]

@@Victor_StudentOfFloppa yeah, it shouldn't be so black and white. The list team should realize the nuances

[@petrikhorr]

if like 10+ more are made yeah

[@44Hd22]

2.2 will launch Oktober so there will be a whole new mode.

[@lordadz1615]

Thanks for this video OneAlphaHelix. love these retrospective videos :D.

[@woodster605]

I was gonna make a video like this a couple weeks ago and went against it cause I had little ideas. Good to see another perspective on the topic

[@PiedeSnx]

I believe we are reaching the skill level for what we have now... but like the wave in 1.9, all the new feature in 2.2 will take years of experience to adjust and improve in, making the skill cap higher

[@MachineGunX2]

I think that one way to potentially increase the skill ceiling even further would be to abuse triggers. For instance, adding triggers to already difficult parts that make it so you can only click in very specific frames which would make it extremely hard. Or, downright abusing click count triggers and making people have to get absurd amount of clicks in a very short time.

[@nitehype4z38]

That would just make gameplay shitty - nobody would verify a ‘spam 60 times in 5 seconds’ demon

[@g2neWW]

The skill cap will end when a level of VSC difficulty is an extreme demon (literal perfect timings)

[@Shovelsand55]

one more demon list level and yatagarasu will be thrown of the list even though it was 108th in january 1st 2023. we will miss yata

[@sonicwaveinfinitymiddwelle8555]

Another time when I predict Geometry Dash future. I can't be wrong about this one.

[@ZoltanvamosOfficial]

I dont know, with the addition of so many new mechanics in 2.2, this can only lead to the games hardest demons getting harder. Let me explain. With the addition of free camera mode, itll be easier to pull off gameplay like the ball maze from Viprins part in Hypersonic, but also more. The addition of the random triggers can make for some truly random levels, with the new swingcopter and platformer mode, its very easy to suspect that those mechanics will be utilized very efficiently in 2.2 extreme demons. However, itll also change the way the demonslist and how difficulty in itself works in the game all together. Considering that we will also have the ability to do completely platformer based levels, the idea of having a list for hardest platformer levels also might come into play. Therefore, it wont just increase difficulty in my mind, itll also expand it entirely. Your video is great btw!

[@GamingForeverEpic]

Just wait until 2.2 is out in October. A lot will be added and the skill limit will be nowhere in sight

[@seawolfmikes2111]

5:26 this isn’t true because 60hz players will still have the significant input delay disadvantage

[@GMDXyilopan]

What about -1 frame delay mod? this must be insanely useful on LRR

[@actualcatluna]

I like how the level you show when talking about platformer mode is just not a platformer level lmao

[@woahdotoah]

I love how long 2 player levels are going to be meta, I've been trying to push these for a while with a lot of WIPs I've presented to decently known creators.

[@AwesomeGooberMan]

5:41 what's the id for that level?

[@plasmakitten4261]

Also on the point about 2 player levels on the impossible levels list, it's not actually that they took over just because, it's actually an artifact of that list's rules which allows 2 player levels to have double the maximum CPS of one player levels.

[@DontMindIlluminati]

cps per player is still capped at 15

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@DontMindIlluminati yes but you realize that means 1 player levels cap at 15cps and 2 player levels cap at 30fps right

[@DontMindIlluminati]

@@plasmakitten4261 it doesn't matter because the cap is still the same, you just tap the same speed on 2 hands, rather than one

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@DontMindIlluminati Except that's still literally twice as many clicks. What if I perfectly offsync it so that there's double the CPS but with one click one hand, then one click the other hand?

[@DontMindIlluminati]

@@plasmakitten4261 it doesn't matter that there's twice as many clicks, 30cps is much harder than 15 cps per hand, you're still not clicking faster

[@mopedout]

helix is the Vsauce if gd

[@oseneman]

disagree

[@Void_unknOwn_6]

I feel like the skill limit seems to just be moving more slowly now, considering that we haven't seen a whole lot of players beating the top 3-5 levels (could be because of the levels just having bad gameplay or just difficulty) or any top 1s other than Tidal Wave being verified or completed. While there are a lot of really skilled players out there, we haven't seen a whole lot of them actively attempting levels like Avernus or Silent Clubstep. Eventually, players will beat them, but probably not for now. Not to mention that we have a lot of upcoming top 1s in the future, like Ascension to Heaven , that are in progress of being made and will eventually push the skill cap further. Until we see players that reach the skill of Zoink maybe, it might just continue like this. (I'll edit this comment if I get anything wrong or change opinions).

[@over6124]

Wait till 2.2 came, i cannot even imagine what monstruosity will be the top 1 in that update

[@Darkrealm7]

I haven't played GD passionately for over half a decade but seeing Flamewall is just so hype (beat saber player camellia moment), and seeing a level actually be named the same as its song is refreshing. Would have a fit if some generic name was used instead, camellia songs don't deserve to have their names glossed over in maps in games

[@beme4395]

Imagine if you combine all the top 10 challenges in one level...

[@elvpse]

Robtop:

[@Chromatic-Exotic]

Wulzy made a series on that like a couple years ago

[@exiled_shadegd]

That would be completely humanly impossible due to VSC

[@mamba2891]

@@exiled_shadegd vsc was completed multiple times

[@orb1talfn]

Good vid this channel is actually so underrated

[@Ser0zine]

2:07 I like when levels are long and hard!

[@purplek1rbl]

🤨📸

[@enyazogd5325]

🤨📸

[@EHMM]

RELATABLE

[@leaf_plant_thing2]

i like something else thats long and hard😏😏

[@moderater2.048]

You used the spaceuk footage when talking about slaughterhouse being verified 🥲

[@ExplodingBlocks]

I don’t think this game will reach its skill limit until there is a full level that includes the VSC wave

[@Lemonsh4rkk]

this man beats such hard levels while still putting out content! insane ❤

[@JoamG008]

Skill limit is defined by imagination in this game. As long as a player is able to create a harder(or longer) level than those which currently exists, skill limit will be far out of reach. In short, as long as someone is determined to make a harder level than those we have now, skill limit is nonexistent.

[@Lillla57]

It's crazy to imagine how different gd documentaries would be if slaughterhose never changed the song you had to replace

[@LSabreZ]

this question gets asked every year and the answer is always: no

[@snorrett]

every time someone asks this question i remember ppl also debating this when the rgb was the top 3

[@wb-1343]

5:17 the change only affects the physics

[@ermwhattheflip-m8e]

i feel like the only 2 ways to get harder is 1. get longer or 2. use other gamemodes like ball, ufo, spider, robot, swing, cube, and find even harder gimmicks that nobody knows about yet

[@acucarmouse]

I feel like spaceuk hacking slaughterhouse no joke increase the skillcap because people before didnt think it was possible but when he "beat it" it "proved" it was a possible achievement and other started going for it which led to a bit more progression in the skill cap

[@elvpse]

Which is why hacking top 1s is good

[@heitorcar-geometrydash8362]

like xander with zodiac

[@MXGaming01_gd]

"But with 2.2 releasing just in a matter of weeks" - OneAlphaHelix, 2 month ago

[@mrquackalot553]

1:22 "Also relies on length for difficulty" I do understand what you mean by that, but I think it could've been worth mentioning the whole memory aspect as well.

[@gods_devourer8614]

I think at least part of the reason for the decreased amount of condensed difficulty is that people are getting tired of it. We've had so many levels like that and people want something new.

[@cyberz55]

do you reckon the fact that we now have a release date for 2.2 has caused the levels beaten on the demonlist to slow down?

[@Verso3008]

How did robtop manage to make 60hz gameplay the same as 240hz one ?

[@vscythe_]

unlinking physics from framerate, the game will run at 240 tps no matter the refresh rate or framerate and I think the framerate will be uncapped as well to allow for input delay as low as possible

[@jaybugg3r225]

To quote Rek3dge in his description of the infamous level, DeCode: “If I make it longer, I make it harder. And we don’t want that”

[@crimsonfirecalvin]

i've never really thought about the fact that the frequency of longer top 10s has recently dropped. being a flamewall supporter myself, i think it has more potential because of this

[@gliiitched]

The difficulty can be scaled so much higher, tbh. It's just probably going to resemble impossible levels. Minus waves, more jump rings in ship parts, and frame perfect double and even triple clicks. A single frame perfect on 60fps is hard. Imagine having to make one twice on the same frame, with your non dominant hand.

[@plasmapanther4444]

If we ever get higher than 360 refresh rate then maybe that'll also help boost future difficulty

[@knoghtt]

2:08 for no reason at all

[@kengored_alt]

Also there might be new glitches and exploits in 2.2, which will inspire levels with things such as dual separation glitch or data saved on each death (i forgor actual name, but it basically uses some weird ass trigger hell and iirc dual mode to save data from one attempt to the other) or how the game's physics break on larger coordinates and etc

[@YuRll]

"Geometry Dash Is A Cube Jumping Game"

[@EricJavierPérezCabeza]

Back on 2017 i tough yatagarasu a nd sonic wave where the human limit, now they are about to fall to legacy

[@Lorix_77-fi3jz]

Hey i dont know if you will ever read this but your really important to me. I have really strong problems with falling asleep. No asmr or music can help it but your voice just makes me sleep in only 5min! Thanks

[@CC164_real]

we are probably gonna look back at this video in 7 years with nostalgia after slaughterhouse is in the legacy list

[@TheAdaoo7]

When silent clubstep was beaten that's when i finally decided that i cant predict when the skill ceiling will stop increasing and honestly. I think it will continue to slow down but it will never top out before the game reaches the end of its life cycle imo.

[@OptexPsykotic]

Fun Fact: Codependence is not the first 2 player level on the demon list, it was duelo maestro

[@squeeg-gaming]

6:58 ah yes, the new top 2! cyclolcyc, verified by spaceUK in 25 attempts, placed above ballistic wistfully, and below slaughterhouse (its harder, source = trust me bro lol)

[@Ic1clez_]

The thing, most "Top 1s" nowadays are just the same difficulty as the last just longer, look at levels like Every End and Flamewall

[@saltinnee6060]

5:17 If lower refresh rates are getting boosted to 240hz, are higher refresh rates getting lowered to 240hz? If they are, that could mean that we hit a "speed bump" in the skill cap, as 360hz effectively doesn’t exist at that point. I do think that people will eventually raise the skill cap if this happens though, it would just take a long time.

[@tempesto7559]

Um 2.2 we get the random trigger. Idk much about it or what its limits are, but if i wanted to make a top 1, id build a a ton of top 1 level layouts, give them each a group and randomize it, so every attempt you are pretty much playing a new level. That would force you to practice every possible variant and that seems impossible

[@GDNebula_]

What if someone makes a full level as hard as vsc and verifies it over a few years 😳

[@GameristicForce]

4:30 He used driftveil city just before toothless 😅

[@sjunlee234]

I think "GD Skill" has changed its standards over the years. I think GD Skills were focused on "speedrunning" years ago. Grinding stars/demons faster meant better at game. Nowadays, it has become an area of click patterns, so it's theoretically possible to beat any top demon by using millions of attempts. As mentioned in the video, it is likely to turn into the area of "endurance" in the future.

[@Quinimunn]

yo man for the platformer mode gameplay that wasnt platformer mode that was just using the 2.2 reverse trigger to change your players direction.

[@TB_Boss3]

I was suspecting the top levels difficulty would stay mostly same but the duration would get longer. Then Every End Showcase Was Posted

[@exiled_shadegd]

Sid125 beat The Golden Is Dead, this is probably the hardest achievement in gd, SW Is Dead was around top 10 when it was verified

[@Toaster-jr5eo]

The xenoblade music when talking about frame perfects

[@iRWQFSFASXCi]

7:15 thats because most people believe 1p cant be harder than 2p but they were wrong

[@korkscrew4156]

Bloodlust was once the ultimate level. Now it's just another list demon. I truly don't know what to think as far as a skill ceiling goes in this game

[@noonenobody4282]

I remember like 5 years ago people were saying the same thing there is no true skill limit if top players want to put in the hours

[@benjybobo2318]

We dont need difficulty, as long as it looks good, at some point top demons will be rated by deco because the skill ceiling would have been reached.

[@TeamCrystalGMD]

good think I'm already hoping onto the meta before it starts with an 8 minute level. Its not list difficulty but rather insane demon but could make list somehow.

[@Κωνσταντινος-ξ1ψ]

im honestly excited to see a new meta with top 1s and 10s.

[@Ifozoos]

5:21 is it true ??? I have never heard talking about that before wtf it would be so cool

[@noobonmobile419]

Not for me i tried 240hz on my friends phone and i couldn’t even beat kappaclysm cuz im so used to 60 but idk mby i will get used to it

[@catpoisonlover]

​@@noobonmobile419a phone with 240?

[@GMDXyilopan]

@@noobonmobile419 i have switched from 60hz mobile to 120hz mobile like 2 years ago and it changed gd physics a lot. it was really weird at first, but after 3 days it felt sooooo much better, everything became so easy. Now, i have got a pc w144hz monitor and even this made a slight difference. switch to higher fps afap if you can

[@rookie5026]

Our attention span is becoming the communities way of improving the skill ceiling...

[@Agn3x2929]

Showing us yatagarasu as number 150 about to be off the demon list is evil

[@bears9]

I don’t think it will ever, as long as we got this dedicated community to just keep pushing and pushing, we’ll always reach higher limits with time

[@oladodificil7178]

Wait? 5:20 what?60Hz will play the same as 240Hz?for real?I didn't know that about 2.2.

[@PulsarBeaming]

yata's gonna fall into legacy NOOOO

[@Idk_496]

Well, with 2.2 nearing I think we'll see an even bigger spike in skill because of the new game modes and the new levels that could be made. So many new possibilites, and the skill limit is definetly not going to stop rising soon.

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

i also feel like memory demons are kind of sparse and are much needed to keep the demon list fresh

[@skyrusher12]

now just imagine a level as long as return0, with two players like codependence, that has individual gameplay parts harder than that of tidal wave. this game is gonna be insane

[@AustynL]

i know for a fact that im gonna miss this premiere edit: frickin called it

[@minkmiau]

Samee

[@chixens5713]

As long as a level is humanly possible and refresh rates and less input delay gear comes out, if someone has the patience I can see someone beating a super hard top 1 with 2Mil attempts.

[@mcmac8212]

I think as long as this game has a large enough active playing community, we will never reach a skill limit

[@neineinfachnein4497]

Imagine the top ten has subway surfer gameplay underneath because nobody has the attention span to focus for 3 minutes

[@ljoiheoag]

can’t wait for floating outskirts to come out

[@xaxzer4117]

I mean back in the day people thought cataclysm was damn near impossible and look where we are at now

[@gdgdgs2440]

2:59 360hz?? I thought they were 60hz frame perfects..

[@FoxLadyQueen]

Once 2.2 comes out then no, the skill gap will be reset down so low that it will take probably a full decade to get back to our current skill gap in terms of difficulty

[@attemp2106]

This questions has been around for quite some time. Until people stop trying to push difficulty, the skill ceiling wont be reached. Something more difficult always exists

[@sliwkaaa]

Didn't robtop refuse to fix the dual ship psychics tho?

[@zhabiboss]

7:16 well umn actually formosa doesn’t use 2p mode 🤓 🤓

[@MB-bl4nl]

TTV wasn't actually 18 360fps frame perfects though right? Because of a bug it was actually 18 60fps frame perfects with a 1/6 chance for your frames to be aligned properly.

[@exiled_shadegd]

The one that was verified was bugged yeah

[@Magnetined]

I think the Technical skill ceiling is about to be hit, but the visionary skill (vision, ability to see at speed or at low light levels) is just growing