Is Geometry Dash Reaching The Skill Limit?

[@31pyrex]

People thought SWI would be the skill limit years ago and now it's out of the top 20. Hell, if the game lasts another decade, we might not see a skill limit until 2033.

[@Kalervoo]

E

[@shadowknight00M]

2.2 is the peak i'm afraid.

[@lilysamvelian9970]

I think GD is actually expanding the limits of out skill

[@mister03_tr]

With the new mode and camera movements the skill gap will be huge from 2.1 ...

[@yodaas7902]

There is no skill limit as long as there are active players

[@FormerlyReshiramNowGetIced]

"Imagine Slaughterhouse but 3 minutes long..." You just described GRIEF perfectly

[@kittinanpakboon8129]

True

[@orochi2488]

Grief entering in scenary

[@David280GG]

Mibe olz

[@wantu7816]

There are like 2 pr 3 slaughterhouse superfast wave parts there

[@plasmakitten4261]

It's such a shame that Return 0 was cancelled, because npesta said that he wanted to verify it because he wanted to push a meta of longer levels, and right now it seems like that's going to be the only real way of pushing difficulty forward at the top of the list because how on earth do you make gameplay harder than Acheron and Avernus that's possible?

[@smallw2003]

INJURY is 34 seconds long and harder than Acheron, and KYWY (a guy who's hardest is poltergeist) has 86% on an undecorated version. If he beats it he will have made the largest jump in GD History Tidal Wave isn't super long, but at least it's a break from the 1 minute top 1s

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@smallw2003 ok well 34 seconds is challenge length. At that point it's SO short that it loops back around into being possible to condense difficulty further because after enough attempts you'll just randomly luck into it. Same deal with VSC which if it were Acheron's length would probably be extremely impossible.

[@Giggle_Pig]

@@smallw2003 I N J U R Y isnt top 1, its top 15.

[@millenial8212]

​@@smallw2003I N J U R Y prob isnt top 1, and if it is, its just skill based

[@ytkerfuffles6429]

its uncancelled in 2.2

[@SolarBeam04]

I think the trend for harder levels going forward is definitely an increase in length, an abuse of the ship and wave gamemodes, since they have more skill expression, and potentially the use of randomized gameplay, so that muscle memory alone won't carry you to victory, you'll also need sight reading abilities

[@twinziest]

and then a 50% chance to die at the end 💀

[@AnalogNoise]

ahh i love rng based gameplay

[@nintySW]

​@@AnalogNoiserng doesnt have to be a bad thing if all the options are similar in difficulty and propperly sight readable

[@AnalogNoise]

@@nintySW true, but i wasn't referring only to geometry dash

[@nintySW]

@@AnalogNoise I mean if we're taking into account non gd games, rng gets even better, think rougelikes and stuff, or npc ai. your issue is with bad game design, not rng.

[@crapyads9014]

remember, no matter how hard the level is, you can create a harder version of it by maing the level longer

[@rigatoni_joe5090]

Just make Tidal Wave but you have to beat Stereo Madness at the end lol

[@ImmenseJ-tard8253]

​@@rigatoni_joe5090that makes it harder by 1.00001x.

[@rigatoni_joe5090]

@@ImmenseJ-tard8253 yeah which means it’s harder

[@realchiknuggets]

@@ImmenseJ-tard8253 now, Back On Track on the other hand... 👀

[@centri_3]

@@realchiknuggetshow about dry out 😱😱😱😱

[@RandomTangent5263]

I believe Geometry Dash is not reaching the skill limit just yet. We’ve already seen what talented players have done over the past years breaking the skill limit time and time again. I believe that players will continue to break even more limits to what the game has to offer. Years ago, Bloodbath was #1. Years later, we have Acheron, Arcturus, Firework, Slaughterhouse, Kyouki, and much more. And I believe in another 5 years or so, there will be even more tops 1 much harder than the one we have now. It’s only a matter of time. We just have to wait for players to improve even more, which I’m confident they will. Also, 2.2 might motivate some players to play Geometry Dash more due to the new features. And those new features will definitely be used in upcoming extreme demons to make them even harder. So in my opinion, no. I do not think Geometry Dash will be ending anytime soon.

[@Edvardopfake69]

Yooo 100th video time!

[@minkmiau]

That's cool

[@tabarak_allah_subhanah]

That's cool

[@zMysticat]

That’s cool

[@BicarbonatoDeSodio.]

That's cool

[@Crystal_Yoyoyo]

That’s Cool

[@OniLink]

We’re entering in the 3min+ meta. Otherwise it will become very unfun to beat new top levels. This concern motivated me to build TW

[@SolarBeam04]

Agreed, longer fairer gameplay > short unfair gameplay, just look at Avernus and what happened to it for example

[@taffjama]

​​@@SolarBeam04Yep. No one even made list percentage yet to this day because of how bad it was.

[@heitorcar-geometrydash8362]

@@taffjama "because of how bad it was" more like "because of how hard it is for a top 2"

[@taffjama]

@@heitorcar-geometrydash8362 if that was the case, then why does everyone try to do acheron instead

[@exiled_shadegd]

@@taffjamafor the glory and stuff, and kinda for the funny because Avernus having no victors is funny

[@SirSalami]

Honestly I think geometry dash isn’t going to get boring soon. 2.2 is going to add much more ways to grind the game and I think that will last a while. Also the hardest levels only make the level fun to watch for most players, maybe people would start grinding stars again. We don’t know what could happen with a community like this. But no matter what happens the GD community isn’t dying any time soon

[@The4gamers5885]

Another thing to mention about the amount of new top 10's slowing down, back during the Tartarus era, the top 5 (Tartarus, The Golden, Zodiac, Kenos, Crimson Planet) stayed completely the same for an entire *year* before SWI was verified, but as soon as Slaughterhouse was verifed the enitre top ten got a bunch new levels (slh, fw, arcturus, oblivion, hard machine, sakupen circles) I feel like the demonlist seems to be going through a cycle of: New top one pushes the skill limit players improve new, harder levels get added the list gets harder to keep up with repeat

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

i feel like the best player spot in gd is kind of loose. every demon is unique in that regardless of who plays it, it will inevitably take hundreds of thousands of attempts to master. there is no global skill ceiling in gd other than every demon's OWN skill ceiling.

[@dragobro0456]

2-player levels should get their own list

[@snowyx_]

W

[@dragobro0456]

@@Victor_StudentOfFloppa yeah, it shouldn't be so black and white. The list team should realize the nuances

[@petrikhorr]

if like 10+ more are made yeah

[@KingCapybara0]

I can almost guarantee that every single recent tab level is just gonna be the sound effect trigger spammed all over the place with the fart sound effect and a 4x speed at the very beginning.

[@Ramp4ge28]

Just remember demon park, 10 years ago, an easy demon was an almost imposible level, imagine now

[@sonicwaveinfinitymiddwelle8555]

Another time when I predict Geometry Dash future. I can't be wrong about this one.

[@PiedeSnx]

I believe we are reaching the skill level for what we have now... but like the wave in 1.9, all the new feature in 2.2 will take years of experience to adjust and improve in, making the skill cap higher

[@MachineGunX2]

I think that one way to potentially increase the skill ceiling even further would be to abuse triggers. For instance, adding triggers to already difficult parts that make it so you can only click in very specific frames which would make it extremely hard. Or, downright abusing click count triggers and making people have to get absurd amount of clicks in a very short time.

[@nitehype4z38]

That would just make gameplay shitty - nobody would verify a ‘spam 60 times in 5 seconds’ demon

[@woahdotoah]

I love how long 2 player levels are going to be meta, I've been trying to push these for a while with a lot of WIPs I've presented to decently known creators.

[@g2neWW]

The skill cap will end when a level of VSC difficulty is an extreme demon (literal perfect timings)

[@ZoltanvamosOfficial]

I dont know, with the addition of so many new mechanics in 2.2, this can only lead to the games hardest demons getting harder. Let me explain. With the addition of free camera mode, itll be easier to pull off gameplay like the ball maze from Viprins part in Hypersonic, but also more. The addition of the random triggers can make for some truly random levels, with the new swingcopter and platformer mode, its very easy to suspect that those mechanics will be utilized very efficiently in 2.2 extreme demons. However, itll also change the way the demonslist and how difficulty in itself works in the game all together. Considering that we will also have the ability to do completely platformer based levels, the idea of having a list for hardest platformer levels also might come into play. Therefore, it wont just increase difficulty in my mind, itll also expand it entirely. Your video is great btw!

[@44Hd22]

2.2 will launch Oktober so there will be a whole new mode.

[@mopedout]

helix is the Vsauce if gd

[@oseneman]

disagree

[@Darkrealm7]

I haven't played GD passionately for over half a decade but seeing Flamewall is just so hype (beat saber player camellia moment), and seeing a level actually be named the same as its song is refreshing. Would have a fit if some generic name was used instead, camellia songs don't deserve to have their names glossed over in maps in games

[@GamingForeverEpic]

Just wait until 2.2 is out in October. A lot will be added and the skill limit will be nowhere in sight

[@Lemonsh4rkk]

this man beats such hard levels while still putting out content! insane ❤

[@Void_unknOwn_6]

I feel like the skill limit seems to just be moving more slowly now, considering that we haven't seen a whole lot of players beating the top 3-5 levels (could be because of the levels just having bad gameplay or just difficulty) or any top 1s other than Tidal Wave being verified or completed. While there are a lot of really skilled players out there, we haven't seen a whole lot of them actively attempting levels like Avernus or Silent Clubstep. Eventually, players will beat them, but probably not for now. Not to mention that we have a lot of upcoming top 1s in the future, like Ascension to Heaven , that are in progress of being made and will eventually push the skill cap further. Until we see players that reach the skill of Zoink maybe, it might just continue like this. (I'll edit this comment if I get anything wrong or change opinions).

[@woodster605]

I was gonna make a video like this a couple weeks ago and went against it cause I had little ideas. Good to see another perspective on the topic

[@Shovelsand55]

one more demon list level and yatagarasu will be thrown of the list even though it was 108th in january 1st 2023. we will miss yata

[@plasmakitten4261]

Also on the point about 2 player levels on the impossible levels list, it's not actually that they took over just because, it's actually an artifact of that list's rules which allows 2 player levels to have double the maximum CPS of one player levels.

[@DontMindIlluminati]

cps per player is still capped at 15

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@DontMindIlluminati yes but you realize that means 1 player levels cap at 15cps and 2 player levels cap at 30fps right

[@DontMindIlluminati]

@@plasmakitten4261 it doesn't matter because the cap is still the same, you just tap the same speed on 2 hands, rather than one

[@plasmakitten4261]

@@DontMindIlluminati Except that's still literally twice as many clicks. What if I perfectly offsync it so that there's double the CPS but with one click one hand, then one click the other hand?

[@DontMindIlluminati]

@@plasmakitten4261 it doesn't matter that there's twice as many clicks, 30cps is much harder than 15 cps per hand, you're still not clicking faster

[@itzkolkhov202]

I feel like spaceuk hacking slaughterhouse no joke increase the skillcap because people before didnt think it was possible but when he "beat it" it "proved" it was a possible achievement and other started going for it which led to a bit more progression in the skill cap

[@elvpse]

Which is why hacking top 1s is good

[@heitorcar-geometrydash8362]

like xander with zodiac

[@Ser0zine]

2:07 I like when levels are long and hard!

[@purplek1rbl]

🤨📸

[@enyazogd5325]

🤨📸

[@EHMM]

RELATABLE

[@leaf_plant_thing2]

i like something else thats long and hard😏😏

[@over6124]

Wait till 2.2 came, i cannot even imagine what monstruosity will be the top 1 in that update

[@beme4395]

Imagine if you combine all the top 10 challenges in one level...

[@elvpse]

Robtop:

[@Chromatic-Exotic]

Wulzy made a series on that like a couple years ago

[@exiled_shadegd]

That would be completely humanly impossible due to VSC

[@mamba2891]

@@exiled_shadegd vsc was completed multiple times

[@JoamG008]

Skill limit is defined by imagination in this game. As long as a player is able to create a harder(or longer) level than those which currently exists, skill limit will be far out of reach. In short, as long as someone is determined to make a harder level than those we have now, skill limit is nonexistent.

[@wb-1343]

5:17 the change only affects the physics

[@actualcatluna]

I like how the level you show when talking about platformer mode is just not a platformer level lmao

[@sjunlee234]

I think "GD Skill" has changed its standards over the years. I think GD Skills were focused on "speedrunning" years ago. Grinding stars/demons faster meant better at game. Nowadays, it has become an area of click patterns, so it's theoretically possible to beat any top demon by using millions of attempts. As mentioned in the video, it is likely to turn into the area of "endurance" in the future.

[@seawolfmikes2111]

5:26 this isn’t true because 60hz players will still have the significant input delay disadvantage

[@GMDXyilopan]

What about -1 frame delay mod? this must be insanely useful on LRR

[@gliiitched]

The difficulty can be scaled so much higher, tbh. It's just probably going to resemble impossible levels. Minus waves, more jump rings in ship parts, and frame perfect double and even triple clicks. A single frame perfect on 60fps is hard. Imagine having to make one twice on the same frame, with your non dominant hand.

[@lordadz1615]

Thanks for this video OneAlphaHelix. love these retrospective videos :D.

[@crimsonfirecalvin]

i've never really thought about the fact that the frequency of longer top 10s has recently dropped. being a flamewall supporter myself, i think it has more potential because of this

[@kengored_alt]

Also there might be new glitches and exploits in 2.2, which will inspire levels with things such as dual separation glitch or data saved on each death (i forgor actual name, but it basically uses some weird ass trigger hell and iirc dual mode to save data from one attempt to the other) or how the game's physics break on larger coordinates and etc

[@Idk_496]

Well, with 2.2 nearing I think we'll see an even bigger spike in skill because of the new game modes and the new levels that could be made. So many new possibilites, and the skill limit is definetly not going to stop rising soon.

[@TheAdaoo7]

When silent clubstep was beaten that's when i finally decided that i cant predict when the skill ceiling will stop increasing and honestly. I think it will continue to slow down but it will never top out before the game reaches the end of its life cycle imo.

[@plasmapanther4444]

If we ever get higher than 360 refresh rate then maybe that'll also help boost future difficulty

[@mrquackalot553]

1:22 "Also relies on length for difficulty" I do understand what you mean by that, but I think it could've been worth mentioning the whole memory aspect as well.

[@vincentini9183]

this question gets asked every year and the answer is always: no

[@ExplodingBlocks]

I don’t think this game will reach its skill limit until there is a full level that includes the VSC wave

[@exiled_shadegd]

Sid125 beat The Golden Is Dead, this is probably the hardest achievement in gd, SW Is Dead was around top 10 when it was verified

[@snorrett]

every time someone asks this question i remember ppl also debating this when the rgb was the top 3

[@gods_devourer8614]

I think at least part of the reason for the decreased amount of condensed difficulty is that people are getting tired of it. We've had so many levels like that and people want something new.

[@Lillla57]

It's crazy to imagine how different gd documentaries would be if slaughterhose never changed the song you had to replace

[@Ic1clez_]

The thing, most "Top 1s" nowadays are just the same difficulty as the last just longer, look at levels like Every End and Flamewall

[@benjybobo2318]

We dont need difficulty, as long as it looks good, at some point top demons will be rated by deco because the skill ceiling would have been reached.

[@squeeg-gaming]

6:58 ah yes, the new top 2! cyclolcyc, verified by spaceUK in 25 attempts, placed above ballistic wistfully, and below slaughterhouse (its harder, source = trust me bro lol)

[@boothcreates]

Good vid this channel is actually so underrated

[@jaybugg3r225]

To quote Rek3dge in his description of the infamous level, DeCode: “If I make it longer, I make it harder. And we don’t want that”

[@MXGaming01_gd]

"But with 2.2 releasing just in a matter of weeks" - OneAlphaHelix, 2 month ago

[@TB_Boss3]

I was suspecting the top levels difficulty would stay mostly same but the duration would get longer. Then Every End Showcase Was Posted

[@YuRll]

"Geometry Dash Is A Cube Jumping Game"

[@Toaster-jr5eo]

The xenoblade music when talking about frame perfects

[@tempesto7559]

Um 2.2 we get the random trigger. Idk much about it or what its limits are, but if i wanted to make a top 1, id build a a ton of top 1 level layouts, give them each a group and randomize it, so every attempt you are pretty much playing a new level. That would force you to practice every possible variant and that seems impossible

[@korkscrew4156]

Bloodlust was once the ultimate level. Now it's just another list demon. I truly don't know what to think as far as a skill ceiling goes in this game

[@moderater2.048]

You used the spaceuk footage when talking about slaughterhouse being verified 🥲

[@Κωνσταντινος-ξ1ψ]

im honestly excited to see a new meta with top 1s and 10s.

[@saltinnee6060]

5:17 If lower refresh rates are getting boosted to 240hz, are higher refresh rates getting lowered to 240hz? If they are, that could mean that we hit a "speed bump" in the skill cap, as 360hz effectively doesn’t exist at that point. I do think that people will eventually raise the skill cap if this happens though, it would just take a long time.

[@personfromgermany]

We definitely haven't reached the skill limit yet, I just think we are in another tartarus phase where 1 level is at the top for a while and sometime in the future we will get more frequent hard levels aided by all the new 2.2 features.

[@personfromgermany]

Additionally more 2 player levels and higher fps rates like 500 could be allowed in the future since we have seen robtop using 500fps

[@exiled_shadegd]

Watch Acheron fall out of the top 5 in 1 year from now. Trust me

[@Lorix_77-fi3jz]

Hey i dont know if you will ever read this but your really important to me. I have really strong problems with falling asleep. No asmr or music can help it but your voice just makes me sleep in only 5min! Thanks

[@jaywinged]

5:09 while the skillcap may be drawing near we nowhere close to the mindcap 💯💯💯

[@OptexPsykotic]

Fun Fact: Codependence is not the first 2 player level on the demon list, it was duelo maestro

[@yixoraptor6775]

My prediction for the future of difficulty is that people will stop caring about beating a level without dying once. Its technically possible for a human to beat cyclolcyc, but its so incredibly hard that it would take too much effort, likely millions of attempts. People are just going to no clip accuracy a level, and that's how the demonlist might work. The victors of a demon might be ranked on their accuracy, with 1st place having 99.4%, 2nd place having 98.8%, etc. This way, people can still mostly beat demons, but it will take far less attempts to get an impressive' run, as you dont have to be perfect. I'm no expert, but other rhythm games dont require you to be 100% perfect. If gd was more like Osu, and small errors didn't matter, I think that would open up completing top demons to so many more people. Just a thought.

[@bears9]

I don’t think it will ever, as long as we got this dedicated community to just keep pushing and pushing, we’ll always reach higher limits with time

[@iRWQFSFASXCi]

7:15 thats because most people believe 1p cant be harder than 2p but they were wrong

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

i never really believed in a skill ceiling in GD since every player, regardless of skill chooses which demons to play and regardless of difficulty, they WILL eventually beat it. the only skill involved in a geometry dash level is just practice and memorizing the click patterns, anything after that is just muscle memory. muscle memory is built upon practice, not skill

[@knoghtt]

2:08 for no reason at all

[@GameristicForce]

4:30 He used driftveil city just before toothless 😅

[@noonenobody4282]

I remember like 5 years ago people were saying the same thing there is no true skill limit if top players want to put in the hours

[@attemp2106]

This questions has been around for quite some time. Until people stop trying to push difficulty, the skill ceiling wont be reached. Something more difficult always exists

[@skyrusher12]

now just imagine a level as long as return0, with two players like codependence, that has individual gameplay parts harder than that of tidal wave. this game is gonna be insane

[@shortax6147]

The "Skill cap" stops when the entire level becomes a frame perfect mess like those bullet hell games. Hitboxes EVERYWHERE where you die if you arent pixel perfect. From then on you can only increase the length of the level and extend the frame perfect hell to infinity and beyond. Thats when then game gets a hard cap, but before that who knows. People have so much time to beat levels nowadays so its not impossible for this to happen

[@thetechnovoid]

any examples of bullet hells?

[@TeamCrystalGMD]

good think I'm already hoping onto the meta before it starts with an 8 minute level. Its not list difficulty but rather insane demon but could make list somehow.

[@Magnetined]

I think the Technical skill ceiling is about to be hit, but the visionary skill (vision, ability to see at speed or at low light levels) is just growing

[@chixens5713]

As long as a level is humanly possible and refresh rates and less input delay gear comes out, if someone has the patience I can see someone beating a super hard top 1 with 2Mil attempts.

[@user-pu9wb8xo6b]

Im so excited for 2.2!

[@GDNebula_]

What if someone makes a full level as hard as vsc and verifies it over a few years 😳

[@cyberz55]

do you reckon the fact that we now have a release date for 2.2 has caused the levels beaten on the demonlist to slow down?

[@PulsarBeaming]

yata's gonna fall into legacy NOOOO

[@CC164_real]

we are probably gonna look back at this video in 7 years with nostalgia after slaughterhouse is in the legacy list

[@Chromatic-Exotic]

“Longer nerving levels, the world of 2-player levels” XL 2 Player levels: 👹

[@Quinimunn]

yo man for the platformer mode gameplay that wasnt platformer mode that was just using the 2.2 reverse trigger to change your players direction.

[@Gabberbam]

There's already an easier solo two player extreme called Saikyo Stronger by hydraflare, and it's crazy cool and shows how cool these levels can be.

[@zzz-ovidiu2015]

0:6 BLUD IS GONNA GET KILLED FOR THIS

[@AustynL]

i know for a fact that im gonna miss this premiere edit: frickin called it

[@minkmiau]

Samee

[@EricJavierPérezCabeza]

Back on 2017 i tough yatagarasu a nd sonic wave where the human limit, now they are about to fall to legacy

[@dopenation1025]

not anymore because i started playing😈 (i just beat deadlocked)

[@rookie5026]

Our attention span is becoming the communities way of improving the skill ceiling...

[@ljoiheoag]

can’t wait for floating outskirts to come out

[@Agn3x2929]

Showing us yatagarasu as number 150 about to be off the demon list is evil

[@Ddelsol47]

We aren't. We just aren't thinking in terms of new skills that aren't normal gameplay conventions. We have the tools at our disposal to make literal games. Executional boundary has been reached, but we can break it with creative applications. Longer levels? Yeah. Unique movement with unconventional timings? Yeah. God forbid we start actually experimenting with how the mirror portal actually works. There are so many creative things we caj do to break the limits of difficulty that wouldnt even be solvable by normal means. Weve pushed LINEAR difficulty too far, not creative difficulty. Humnan lines stop. Art doesn't. We have a canvas, not a math problem.

[@oladodificil7178]

Wait? 5:20 what?60Hz will play the same as 240Hz?for real?I didn't know that about 2.2.

[@txflips1]

I would say that even the skill ceiling of normal sized level is not even near. I mean you could still just take something like VSC (with more diverse gameplay maybe haha) and make it a minute long and it would be a new top one