Bolt Action Third Edition - Building an Army

[@DinoBProductions]

British list looks very fun, but youre gonna need more boots on the ground, thats what I learned the hard way on my first Bolt Action v3 game :P

[@OnPointHQ]

Agree with you 100%! The British list was very much theoretical and while I imagine I'd have a lot of fun running it in a game, the reality is it would probably get absolutely battered. In second edition I always ran a minimum of three infantry sections and this will certainly be my approach to third 😃👍

[@dm51964]

Have not decided what I am building yet but have a fairly decent Late War German force including 3 Panthers and I will see if I can adapt to the new rules when they arrive with the new starter set. I also have lots of Late War British Infantry and 4 Shermans and a Firefly but fancy doing a late War American force next and the miniatures in greatcoats should be a good basis to start

[@OnPointHQ]

I think with the list building process the way it is now, you'll be able to field a lot more of your collection in third edition than you could in second. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with 😃👍

[@samsolopeeps]

I have had all my Toys out making lists. Lots of fun. My fav so far is lots of little SAS units

[@OnPointHQ]

I will definitely be revisiting my SAS for third edition as it seems they will be a lot easier to field 😃👍

[@bickercity6392]

Thanks for this, Ste. I played a little bit of the old Bolt Action, but now am really excited about getting stuck into the new version. I have way too much 28mm WWII still sitting in boxes so this is going to give me ideas for plenty of projects.

[@OnPointHQ]

Cheers Don! I would definitely recommend this, having been tinkering with the new process and what I've painted so far, I can see some really interesting and personalised lists being built 😃👍

[@MiniatureRealms]

Great video Ste. I’ve been playing around with lists today, so much easier and more fun in V3.

[@OnPointHQ]

Cheers Stu, much appreciated! Definitely agree with you about the building being more fun. Being able to take that many tanks in a 1500 point list really surprised me. I'm going to take a look at my USMC next to see what I can come up with 😃👍

[@MiniatureRealms]

@@OnPointHQ That’s partly what motivated me, more tanks and less infantry to paint. As I’ve not really played the game properly, just messed around painting I have no idea if my list would work/what it would be like to play with or against. But I’ve made a 1k list that I’d like to work on. I’m not going to post it in the Bolt Action FB group though, that place is way too spicy right now 😂

[@OnPointHQ]

Absolutely this. I think there is scope to run the list that you want and if it's more armour.....all the better! The new platoon building definitely makes this viable but I like that conversely the new process will allow builds that will counter armour heavy lists. From a purely modelling perspective, as someone that likes building and painting tanks, I most definitely approve of the new way 😁 Ahhh this is a wise move! I have temporarily left the BA group until the spice wears down 😅

[@lionheart3916]

Thanks for the video, Ste. It was very informative. I've got my rules on the way and can't wait to start playing around with different army builds

[@OnPointHQ]

Thank you! I can imagine a lot of people will be looking at units/vehicles that they've never been able to field before 😃👍

[@devil118118]

love your bases man

[@OnPointHQ]

Thank you! I always enjoy basing my miniatures as they tie an army or project together. Sometimes I'm planning a basing scheme before I've even started the miniatures 😀

[@paulspaintshed3511]

Great video mate. Keep em coming.

[@OnPointHQ]

Cheers Paul, glad you liked the video. Really liking third edition so I'm definitely planning more Bolt Action content moving forward 😃👍

[@garycassar8257]

Great example & nice to see laid out

[@OnPointHQ]

Thanks Gary, much appreciated. Whenever I'm building a list, regardless of the rule system, I always like to have the miniatures out in front of me, gives me a better feel of what the list will look like 😃👍

[@Octavianus08]

Hey! @slowwargamer here and as always i appreciate your very nice beginner videos!

[@OnPointHQ]

That's awesome, thank you, always appreciated dude! I'm looking at putting together some similar videos for third edition 😃👍

[@Octavianus08]

@@OnPointHQ Do that, wargaming needs it scholars!

[@PartisanGamesLtd]

If people are taking large rifle sections, the heavy mortar is a better choice, it gives you a much bigger damage template, the best I've managed so far with Germans is 21 order dice for 1246 points. Warlrod have specified that armies should be based on 1250 points. Your 4 Britisih tanks only gives you 12 MMG shots and 4 shots with HE or AP, tanks are no longer viable for the cost, especially when you take the cover save rules into account.

[@OnPointHQ]

We've always played at 1500 so I think we'll be sticking with this. My mate enjoys 2000 points but I dread to think how long a game that big would take to play in third! With the tanks, it's very much a rule of cool for me, I've never been able to field so many tanks before so I'm just going to run with it 😃👍

[@PartisanGamesLtd]

@@OnPointHQ The problem now with tanks is that you have to stay out of harms way from HMG's, not only can they pin you, also a hit means you have to reverse one full move. So if you do use them, make sure you bring them on the table by at least two full moves!

[@MrGunnar177]

Sometimes it’s not about the most effective or competitive choices…I’m sure you mean your comment to be helpful but there’s lots of us that just want to play what we want or play historically. My biggest issue with bolt action (always has been) is the lack of enforcing historical rifle sections and platoons. Pile on the fact that events by and large in the US don’t have restrictions on time periods or what not. I don’t want to play late war Germans against polish cav for example. That’s a bastardization of ww2 imo. I’d much rather play battlegroup or chain of command. But for sheer amount of games near me and with the onset of v3 I’m willing to give it another shot. I’ll be doing the battle of imphal themed army with rifles and lees. Will it be competitive? Probably not. Will I enjoy making historical platoons and painting them up and then seeing them on the table? Most definitely

[@flopus7]

Churchill tanks disagree with anyone using cover

[@mikebrines5708]

@@PartisanGamesLtd 1) Reverse moves are always at half the full rate, unless you have a dual drive vehicle. 2) Hits just put a pin. To have to reverse you'd have to fail your order test.

[@Astul89]

Nice video and interesting lists! one thing I think is not very clear on your video is that each Rifle platoon unlocks 1 other platoon from each of the special platoons. So on your first list, you don't really need the second rifle platoon, you could just put all your infantry on one rifle platoon and then have the armored and heavy platoon as you have them. This will make you loose one commander thou

[@OnPointHQ]

Thank you and yes, you're correct. The only reason for the second rifle platoon was because, prior to making the video, I was working on a list that was two rifle platoons and two armoured platoons to try and see how much German armour I could fit in. When making the video, I just stuck with the two platoons but acknowledge just the one would have sufficed 😃👍

[@12600Grey]

Thanks for the video. What do you mean by when you say you are not a competitive player? Is this game able to be played solo or coop against the game? Or do you mean you do not play in an organized event of competitive players for winnings? I am learning bolt action, so figured I would ask. thanks again.

[@OnPointHQ]

Thank you. I'm not competitive in that I enjoy my gaming, ensuring my opponent enjoys the game and it's more about the narrative and the story telling rather than winning at all costs. Bolt Action is good in that you can choose how you want to play the game, casually or competitively. With third edition now out, it's a great time to get into playing Bolt Action 😃👍

[@12600Grey]

⁠@@OnPointHQwonderful explanation. I am playing it as a new player with some friends and we also play it as a fun game with laughs and bewilderment at some of the outcomes of our wild moves! Hah.

[@robertshaw9522]

Hi Ste, why did you split the rifle squads into two platoons?

[@PartisanGamesLtd]

You have to have a rifle platoon to unlock each "special platoon" He's wrong when he says it's moved to platoon level, V2 was platoon level, BAV3 is company level, that is why you can also take a company commander.

[@robertshaw9522]

@@PartisanGamesLtdyeah you only need one rifle platoon to unlock one of each other platoons

[@OnPointHQ]

Hey Robert, I've just mentioned this in a previous comment. When I first built this army, I had two platoons both with armoured platoons attached. When I came to make the video I just left the two platoons in 😃👍

[@OnPointHQ]

This must have been a slip of the tongue if I said it was platoon level. With the amount of platoons now being fielded it is most definitely company level 😃👍

[@mhovar101]

Will you redo your bolt action basics videos where needed for the changes?

[@OnPointHQ]

This is definitely something that I'm planning to do moving forward, specifically with the new mechanics. It'll also be helpful for me in learning the new rules too 😃👍

[@HeadHunterSix]

With those extra 24 points, why not upgrade the Panzerschreck team and one of the MMG teams to Veteran? Especially for the AT team, you could use the survivability, and there's little else you could do with the points.

[@OnPointHQ]

These are certainly valid choices and would definitely improve the list. I've not actually got round to building a list for a game of third edition but if I use this a starting point, I'll certainly remember the recommendations 😀👍

[@basicminiaturepainting]

Excellent stuff ste,very informative and well explained,one day I'll get back into ww2

[@OnPointHQ]

Thanks Justin, glad you liked the video. I'm hoping that third edition gets me enthusiastic about WW2 gaming again 😃👍

[@normanwood1994]

Don't have the rulebook yet so sorry if this is a dumb question - but does the platoon leader only affect his platoon for snap to and morale? Does that mean that a medic can affect everyone but only his platoon commander can affect him? The other thing that struck me as I watched was that this way of building a force does seem to run counter to the German kampfgruppe idea where ad hoc multi-type units would be formed for the assigned task.

[@OnPointHQ]

Great question and one that I hadn't considered! I'll definitely have to check the rulebook and see how this works. I'm hoping that when the Armies of Germany book comes out next three will be additional or expanded units that will allow a more kampfgruppe approach 😃👍

[@mikebrines5708]

Leaders can affect any unit in range for snap and morale. German Kampfgruppen were battalion/brigade size units. You didn't see mixed "platoons" made up of a squad of SS, another of marines, and a squad of Luftwaffe, although that's entirely allowed by the new rules.

[@wellhungindung]

I'd be tempted to take a British late tank platoon of three Shermans and a Firefly. Warlord must be trying to shift some of those tank platoon boxes they sell.

[@OnPointHQ]

This is something that my mate that I play Bolt Action with is doing. He's spent years painting British armour so third edition is suiting him 😃👍

[@rjpunkin]

You know any groups pages in uk can sell BA sprues in. I'm on waiting list for eyes and my left hand is damages. Any suggestions helpful

[@OnPointHQ]

That's an interesting question. I am aware that there are websites for buying sprues and general bits and pieces. For selling it may be useful to look on places like Facebook or something similar. They often have different sales groups where you can sell specific bits and pieces. Hope that helps 👍

[@zakaryperrin7126]

Could I buy the older core sets and use them in the third edition? Or are they obsolete now

[@OnPointHQ]

I believe that Warlord Games ran a scheme before third edition was released where the rulebooks with the core sets could be traded in for a copy of third edition. You could drop an email to Warlord to ask them what will be valid in their core sets now that third edition is out. Their customer service is excellent and I'd be interested to know 😃👍

[@zakaryperrin7126]

@@OnPointHQ thanks for the reply. I’ll probably just do battle of the bulge. That one looks great

[@OnPointHQ]

@@zakaryperrin7126 The Battle of the Bulge set looks awesome, I'm looking at picking up a copy in the new year :)

[@tgrier3858]

How did you make the Humber scout car a headquarters unit

[@OnPointHQ]

Thanks for the question. While the platoon commander of an armoured platoon needs the command special rule, you can pay an additional 10 points to add this rule to any vehicle to make it a platoon commander/HQ. Hope that helps 😃👍

[@MikeSchubert-on6fh]

Thanks for explaining how to 'build' 'bolt action' v3 armies.

[@OnPointHQ]

Cheers Mike, I'm really liking the new build process and can certainly see people coming up with some interesting builds 😃👍

[@funTimesInTheSun]

Is there a list building app?

[@OnPointHQ]

I know that Warlord Games has an app but I'm not sure if it includes army building as part if it. You can check out Easy Army though. It's a great browser based list building application that I've been using for years. It has just been updated to include third edition armies 😀👍

[@kenc9236]

I have a question. Can I used 1/72 scale troops etc with the third edition? Do I half the distance do to scale?

[@OnPointHQ]

Absolutely yes. I play Bolt Action at both 28mm and 15mm and keep the movement and ranges the same in both scales. I've always found that playing at 15mm feels more realistic and tactical. I actually spent a couple of hours at the weekend using third edition to build some 15mm scale army lists 😃👍

[@kenc9236]

@@OnPointHQ Thanks OPHQ.

[@Rolltopaint]

Any advice for building home guard?

[@OnPointHQ]

I've never ran a Home Guard so it's not something that I'm overly familiar with. If you have the Sea Lion book from second edition, I'm guessing you could take some inspiration from there and apply it to third edition. When the Armies of Britain comes out, Home Guard is something that I'll be looking at as I have a box of the BEF by Wargames Atlantic that would be perfect to build Home Guard 😃👍

[@HO-bndk]

Can you play the game without all that points tedium?

[@OnPointHQ]

Absolutely, yes. The points and force building mechanic is there for when players want to play with balanced forces for both casual or tournament play. Outside of this, you can use historical orders of battle to construct your armies or opt for scenario driven games where the forces are unbalanced. Essentially, it's down to the individual players how they build their armies. But the game can definitely be played without points. Hope that helps 👍

[@matty6720]

You dont need 2 rifle platoons, each one unlocks one of each type of additional platoon

[@OnPointHQ]

Hey Matt, yes you're right. I was tempted to put all four sections into one platoon but when I originally wrote this list, I added an armoured platoon to each as it was a 2000 point list. I've never put my Tiger in a list before! So when I came to do the video I just stuck with two rifle platoons 😃👍

[@matty6720]

Fair enough, two armoured platoons sounds mean :)

[@PartisanGamesLtd]

People get mixed up with platoons and sections, in BA3 you need at least two sections to make up a platoon, before you can add additional units, be they additional units to the platoon (Anti Tank, Sniper etc) or be able to add a "specialist" platoon, like armour or heavy weapons, these then need the qualifying units (Commander & others) before you can add additional units to them. The Warlord app is better at doing this, than the Easy Army App.

[@matty6720]

I think the force selection charts are pretty clear regarding minimum units for each platoon. Easy army has them highlighted in red also...

[@wellhungindung]

Bro, do you even German? 😉

[@OnPointHQ]

Absolutely.....well I enjoy listening to Rammstein 😅

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

Couple of things; A) those minis are VERY well painted! B) that list is about as historically plausible as the film Patriot. Why? You've got Fallschirmjager, who fought in their own, separate divisions, with their own support elements, paired with a Grenadier squad, from a separate Infantry Division, paired with a Company command vehicle from a Panzergrenadier Company, in a Panzer Grenadier Division, (and the first Abteilung at that), and... at this point I give up. Now, please don't misunderstand me, they are YOUR toy soldiers and you can and should be able to do whatever the hell you want with them. But you've got troops from at least TWO separate Divisions acting together in what is supposed to be a "Company-level" game. If this is third edition Bolt Action, then it's in danger of becoming 40k with rifles instead of boltguns. Again, please don't take this the wrong way, because A) it's a good video, and B) I subbed on the strength of it. Just because I don't like bolt action 3rd, doesn't mean I don't like your content.

[@DinoBProductions]

He never said he was making a historical list, just a list for a casual game. Most competitive tournaments will not be very historical, beacuse people will put in their list whatever is currently the strongest aka the meta. There are historical tournaments, and you can make a historical company, but for example, early war germans are much weaker than later war germans because the lack of mp44s, panzershrecks, panzerfausts and any after 1943. tank. I used to run an early/early mid war german platoon that fought in yugoslavia, and got my ass kicked in tournaments because that company did not have any good tanks/anti tank weapons or any late war weapons.

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

@@DinoBProductions I know. I'm just saying, if you play a historical wargame, you need to use historically plausible lists. Otherwise it's just 40k with rifles. And I did say there's nothing wrong with that. If that's what you want to do, go do it. But it does take a lot of the flavour out, and can lead to situations like this; (this was reported to me by a friend who used to run late war british armoured in FOW, and was thoroughly put off from continuing to play because of it), a German "infantry" company consisted of two tiny inf platoons with no organic support, two King tigers that just sat on the objective, and two 88mm flack guns that cobed any flanking route to the tigers. Not a fun game. ANY game, where you have to take certain items to stand a chance of winning, is a bad game, or the lists are bad. And kudos to you for taking a historical army! But mid-war, you should've been facing mid-war opponents, or have I misunderstood?

[@astrocat1128]

@@FelixstoweFoamForgethis is the wrong way to approach BA in my opinion as it’s not a historical wargame but a war game played with historical figures if that makes sense, the BA community are not as serious and lore orientated as 40k people and also how do you know the Fallschirmjager didn’t fight along side their grenadier brethren? That is utter nonsense and historically incorrect in all stages..

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

@@astrocat1128 Um, I think I see your main point yes. And in fact, FJ did fight alongside their less glamourous comrades, just not very often in platoon sized operations. But back to your main point. If people want to see it that way, fine, go to it and good luck. But It's put me off, and I was thinking about giving it a go. Flames of War was bad enough. 😄 Each to their own I guess, and all are ok. After all, it is only a game with toy soldiers.

[@astrocat1128]

@@FelixstoweFoamForge exactly so the point you’re making is irrelevant and invalid so give up the argument and play whatever you want and like and if not then don’t.. 🤷‍♂️

[@robandrosehobden3344]

That's looking good with alarmy hope if you ever get round to playing it will do well🤠🤠🤠👍👍👍🏆🏆

[@OnPointHQ]

That's awesome, thank you! I'm actually really looking forward to getting some games of third edition soon 😃👍

[@brendonarmstrong4968]

Could you replace "Heer grenadier" group by a LW "Herman Goering" field div group?

[@OnPointHQ]

Hey Brendon, currently the Luftwaffe Field Division are in the book as generic LFD so no option for anything specific like HG. When the new armies and campaign books come out it may be possible to run them as HG but for now they're just a basic option. Hope that helps 😃👍